MAGA senator melts down when told he's 'afraid' to stand up to Trump

Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) is presenting himself as a bold Republican willing to stand up to President Donald Trump — but melted down when MS NOW commentators pushed back on that characterization.

While promoting his new book "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize President" on MS NOW, Tillis found himself confronted by co-hosts Symone Sanders-Townsend and Luke Russert for voting to confirm Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr., despite their obvious lack of qualifications, only to now harshly criticize them.

"From the book, I feel like you write about that you could not sink a nomination that was so important to a president that you supported, that president being Donald Trump," Sanders-Townsend wrote. "So I go back to — I understand the procedural pieces, but if you don't believe that somebody said — I think that's why so many people are struggling with what they're reading about the book. Like, they see the text message, they're like, "Yeah, give it to Trump." They see all the things you're saying, but you have had an opportunity to stand up in a way and use your power to do something, and Thom, had this vote."

Tillis replied by arguing that even though he voted to confirm Hegseth and Kennedy, that doesn't mean he has not acted quietly to stop their excesses.

"When I felt like it was in my strategic best interest for all the — the thing I love most about the U.S. Senate are all the things I did that y'all never knew about: using leverage and building relationships," Tillis said. "Everybody is looking at this at the atomic level, about that vote. I don't operate that way. And one of the reasons why I've done a lot of bipartisan work and gotten a lot done is I don't work in a single-dimensional way. There were more things in play. And I had a unanimous vote out of Armed Services."

He added, "Unless I had something that I could bring back to every one of those members and say, "This is why I'm voting no. This is a corroborating account that legitimizes that affidavit that came out after the vote," I wasn't going to do that. But besides, you know, we're looking at — look, I mean, and due respect, there are a lot of people that want this president's second administration to get sidetracked by not being able to form the Cabinet."

Luke Russert then chimed in by pointing out that Hegseth started the Iran War and helped gas prices rise "through the roof." When Tillis replied that those things happened after his confirmation, Russert pointed out that he was still "woefully unqualified" beforehand.

"You know what happened?" Tillis said. "I'm doing an annual review, and we're in violent agreement on his lack of competence. But at the time, we didn't have the benefit of..."

Russert interjected to say, "Someone with that history would seem to me to be very troubling to hand over that role to," prompting Tillis to repeat that he could not see the future.

"I'd like to ask you about another secretary," Russert said. "This is RFK Jr. This is from Politico when it happened. You said, quote, 'I hope he goes wild.' "RFK Jr.'s nomination is headed to the Senate floor. Tillis said he meant that he hoped bringing in a disruptor like Kennedy, a lawyer and not a health professional, to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, to bring new ideas. 'The only way that Bobby Kennedy and I will get crosswise is if he does actually take a position against the safety of proven vaccines,' Tillis said. 'That will be a problem for me.'

Russert added, "So here we are now. He's completely changed up the vaccine schedule. He's pulling some vaccine recommendations for children. He single-handedly fired everybody on the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. We now have a measles outbreak in New York and Pennsylvania. Measles are back. So I ask you, as a father of a 10-week-old daughter who has to think about the measles now in the United States of America, something that was eradicated not long ago: Did he go wild enough for you?"

"Number one, there's a reason why he's on the cover of the book," Tillis shot back. "Number two, I'm not worried about your daughter, because you're going to make an informed decision and you have the means and the..."

"How can I do that if measles is out there and she can't get a vaccine for measles until she's one year old?" Russert interrupted.

"Oh, she can't?" Tillis asked.

When Russert asked for clarification, Tillis argued that "you have the means to get your child vaccinated when you want to. People who grew up like me in a trailer park, who hear this guy say, 'Oh, take your time and do multiple phases' — he made a huge mistake. He's putting life at risk. But you don't have to worry about that, because you've got an educated choice and a resource."

Russert disagreed, saying "Of course I have to worry about it! It's herd immunity. If someone doesn't have the vaccine and they have measles and I walk in an airport, my daughter's unvaccinated, she can get measles."

Tillis repeated, "Your child can get vaccinated, though, right?"

Frustrated, Russet said, "Okay. No, I'm sorry. I mean, you're talking in circles and it makes absolutely no sense."

Tillis rejoined, "I'm not sure who's talking in circles."

In contrast to his heated appearance on MS NOW, Tillis characterized himself as an opponent of Trumpism during his appearance on a different network. When speaking to CNN's Jake Tapper earlier in October, Tillis argued that Republicans are often afraid to stand up to the president.

"I think it's all transactional," Tillis told Tapper. "What I didn't mean is there's a group of 30 people that, they spoke out. It's like my position on [Federal Reserve Chair Kevin] Warsh, for example and so it's not like there's a coalition that agrees on that every disagreement that I've had with the president, they agreed with, but there are enough people that for a variety of reasons are not stepping up."

When Tapper asked why they stay quiet, Tillis said that "they work maybe more quietly than I do. But at the end of the day, if you don't use the devices in power — you know, the thing I love most about this job is some of my greatest accomplishments using leverage, you all will never know about it. I know, but I don't want to, because I want to prove the point that when senators take the leverage they have that come from a Senate that has a filibuster, they can be enormously powerful and they can help their president. This is all about helping the president of the United States, who happens to be a Republican."

He added, "Why would anybody think, as elected Republican, I would knowingly do something that would hurt our party? He's the head of the party. I support the president because he's the head of the party, not because he's Donald J. Trump, but because he is the face of our party and I want my party to be in the best position for elections."

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