Cult expert tries to deprogram MAGA mom

Cultism expert Dr. Steven Hassan did some work with a MAGA supporter who is dealing with her children who had pushed her away as a result of her worship of President Donald Trump.

Their viral podcast "The Necessary Conversation" has become a kind of guide for those with MAGA family members that they hope to bring out of the world of Trumpism.

In a recent discussion, Chad Kultgen, his sister Haley Popp and their mother Mary Lou Kultgen walked through some of her policy interests this election. She hates what ICE is doing and wants it out of communities. She wants universal healthcare. She also wants the U.S. out of the war in Iran. By all accounts, she sounds like a Bernie Sanders-style Democrat. But she's being persuaded by the GOP over the idea that boys are playing in girls' sports.

One psychiatrist explained that much of this comes from a culture of fear that MAGA has built and continues to enforce through elections.

Dr. Hassan attempted to mediate a conversation between the Kultgen family using tried-and-true methods of reassuring both sides that they clearly love each other.

He walked through his list of characteristics for people who are in a cult. Mary Lou explained that she sleeps a solid nine hours at night and doesn't really think about recruiting to the GOP, so she didn't believe she was in a cult.

Hassan explained that the characteristics are different based on the cult themselves. He talked about people who are obsessed with a particular sports star or musician. They wear the clothing, they attend all the events, they become good friends with others like them in the group, they spend time on message boards and in groups talking about their fandom and it becomes a huge part of their life.

"It's a culture. It's a thing, right? But it's not authoritarian. It's not asking for dependence or obedience," Hassan explained.

"So you could say I'm in a thing. I'm in a thing," the mother agreed.

"There's another graphic in the book. I don't have a handy thing to hold up, but of all of the different influences over Trump and all of the media circles of how it becomes a silo," he continued. "The point for me is that we're living at a time, this is my thing, you'll read about this in the cult of Trump, Mary Lou, of psychological warfare by enemies of America. Russia, China, Iran. And I've studied this stuff."

"So, Iran has Hamas proxy group to do its bad deeds. So there's this whole machinations by billionaire people who have their own power agendas. And for those dictators, democracy is a threat to them. They don't want free speech. They don't want people to they don't want gay rights and trans rights and indigenous rights and women's rights. They want to be in total control. So for us growing up in America that we love though we went and fought the freaking Nazis, of their authoritarianism. And now we're seeing people in power doing the 'sieg heil' and we're seeing and Chad was showing some of the imagery of of Nazism, right?" Hassan said.

He explained that his message is for everyone who cut off family and friends because they went full Trump: it's time to reach out again.

"Just say, 'I miss you.' And if they say, 'Well, you cursed me out, and you didn't invite me to Thanksgiving for three years.' You apologize," he said. 'I know a lot of people [are] like, 'I'm not going to apologize,' but this is my advice. Apologize and just say, 'Listen, I still care about you and let's just work on reestablishing a warm connection, remembering the good days, common ground and let's share perspectives. Something is important to you, share it with me. I'll watch it with you. We'll talk about it. Then my turn, I'll share something with you,'" he said.

In the end, he said, "The truth will come out."

They pivoted to talk about the Trump assassination attempt and whether or not it was real and Hassan was able to pull her over to the understanding that it could have been staged. He said that the real conversation about these issues is in "reality testing" and exploring propaganda with a logical, non-emotional mind.