CNN host takes ex-Trump DHS secretary to task in explosive interview

An interview between CNN host Brianna Keilar and former Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Chad Wolf grew heated when the two went back-and-forth over the recent fatal shooting of a U.S. citizen in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

During the Friday segment, Keilar repeatedly asked Wolf — who worked in Trump's first administration — if 37 year-old mother of three Renee Nicole Good deserved to be shot ignoring a law enforcement officer's commands or to evade arrest. Wolf insisted that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agent Jonathan Ross was within his right to use deadly force against Good as he likely believed his life was "in danger" after Good's car started moving.

"This individual should have never been in the middle of the street blocking a law enforcement operation. She should have adhered to the commands of the law enforcement officers. And obviously not backed up her car and tried to evade arrest," Wolf said. "There's a variety of things that should have been done differently in this case."

Keilar then played a clip of former ICE deputy chief of staff John Amaya, saying it was official policy that agents "don't chase vehicles." Amaya also said it was widely understood that agency personnel "not shoot at vehicles to either stop them or slow them down unless ... there's imminent danger or threat and there is no reasonable alternative."

"Was stepping out of the way of the vehicle a reasonable alternative in your view?" Keilar asked.

"I don't think that everything that was just articulated there is correct," he responded. "You can go after individuals if they try to abscond in a vehicle so that policy has been changed."

"Can you explain how that's been changed?" Keilar pressed.

"Border patrol along the border gets into high speed chases all the time," Wolf explained. "All the time. You know, drug runners and others trying to—

"—We're in Minneapolis, in the middle of a city," Keilar interjected. "Can you can you apply that into an urban environment?"

"Absolutely you can," Wolf said. "And again, I'm not there on the ground. So I'm not going to try to second guess what a law enforcement officer is thinking. What's what is he hearing? What is he feeling at the moment? ... We weren't there. We don't know what took place."

Keilar then pivoted to the topic of new video that emerged on Friday showing Good having a calm exchange with Ross moments before he shot her. The CNN host noted that Ross was no longer in danger by the time he fired the second and third shots into Good's vehicle, and confronted Wolf over whether those additional shots were legally justifiable.

"The car cannot obviously make contact with him at that point," she said. "Is that DHS policy to shoot into a vehicle through a side window that can't make contact with you, is that permissible?"

"I really don't know what you're describing there. I see the vehicle hit him," Wolf said.

"Chad, you've seen this picture," Keilar insisted. "I'm sure he's shooting in his second or third shot. He is actually to the side of the vehicle shooting in the side window. He's not in front of the car. Is that permissible conduct for discharging a firearm for DHS, for ICE?"

"Well, I'm going to let ICE answer that," he said. "If what you're asking me is, can they only shoot through a front windshield, you know, windshield and not a side windshield? Again, it doesn't work like that. The requirements are not laid out there because there's a variety of things that are happening in real time. And so this idea that on video, we're going to try to Monday-morning-quarterback this thing because we've broken it down into 27 different frames at the same time. This all happened probably in 2 to 3 seconds. And so again, lawful commands were given to an individual who ignored them. And decided to not only back up her vehicle, but then to lurch forward at an officer. And he made a split second decision to protect himself."

Watch the full segment below: