'Yes or no?' CNN host backs GOP lawmaker into a corner on Trump’s permanent layoffs

CNN anchor John Berman on Thursday pushed U.S. Rep Mike Lawler (R-N.Y) to admit he opposes President Donald Trump’s Office of Budget Management permanently firing federal employees as a tactic to dissuade Democrats from triggering a government shutdown.

The White House budget office is instructing federal agencies to prepare reduction-in-force plans for mass firings during a possible government shutdown, with OMB Director Russ Vought using the threat of permanent job cuts as leverage to bring Democrats back to the table.

Shutdowns in the past have mostly resulted in temporary furloughs with employees back on the job once Congress votes to reopen government and restore funding.

But Lawler told the New York Post in an op-ed that he rejects political gamesmanship “that hurts the very people we were elected to serve,” referring to Democrats. This prompted Berman to ask if Lawler similarly opposes Vought’s own gamesmanship.

“So, what do you think of this new letter from OMB? Does that constitute gamesmanship?” Berman asked.

“Well, let's be clear about where we are,” said Lawler. “House Republicans passed a continuing resolution last week to keep the government funded and open. Senate Democrats … refused to actually do that. … No one wins in a government shutdown. The American people are the ones that lose. The economy loses. It is wrong.”

“So back to my question, congressman: Do you support the OMB letter if there is a shutdown? Do you support the idea of using it for mass firings at the agencies?” Berman repeated.

“Well, what happens every time we've had a shutdown is that the executive branch has to make determinations as to what is essential and what is not," Lawler continued. "Barack Obama did that in 2013, shut down numerous committees—.”

“But this is a call for permanent firings,” said Berman, trying to interrupt Lawler several times as the congressman spoke for more than a minute. “... I'm not sure the audio is working here, Congressman, because I'm trying to ask you. I'm just trying to ask you about the OMB letter."

"... I'll try one more time. I think you can hear me,” Berman said. “If there is a shutdown, do you support permanent layoffs at federal agencies? Do you support this move? Yes or no?”

“No, I don't. … Again, John. No, I don't support permanent layoffs at these agencies. But that is not the issue here. The issue here is we should be asking Chuck Schumer—.”

“I was asking about your view of the OMB letter and I appreciate you answering the question,” Berman said.