COMMENTS: 24
In Egypt, "Prostitute" Is a Slippery Term
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I shrugged. "You know, Malak, my dear, under the broad definition of 'prostitute' used in Egypt, all of the women here are prostitutes, including you and me." Malak smiled wryly.
It took me a long time to understand what Egyptians meant when they said "prostitute," and during the first year of my anthropological fieldwork, I was plenty confused. Every time the word "prostitute" came up in conversation, I listened carefully to try to understand the context and how it was being used. It seemed to have to do with behavior, dress, social class, and sexual experience. But it wasn't until I could finally shed my own cultural preconceptions about prostitution fundamentally being tied up with money and sex that I finally understood what my Egyptian friends meant.
When 'Sex' Tourism Doesn't Necessarily Involve Sex
I didn't come to Egypt intending to study prostitution. I was studying tourism and the way people interact across cultures. To that end, I had decided to compare Western tourism and Gulf Arab tourism in Egypt (the countries considered part of the Arab Gulf include Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates).
Gulf Arab tourists mostly come to Cairo in the summer months to escape the heat in their own countries, and I documented lots of family vacations and dating between Gulf men and women. I had good access to Gulf tourists: I had previously lived in Saudi Arabia, and I met up with my Saudi friends when they came to Egypt on vacation. We would go to restaurants and movies and nightclubs. Some of my Saudi friends dated each other, while others were already married. One couple got engaged while they were on vacation in Cairo. Their vacation was one long party, and in many ways they transgressed Saudi cultural norms about male-female socializing, but it was all pretty chaste.
But that's not what my Egyptian friends thought. Instead of youthful dating, they imagined that Saudis came to Egypt to drink, visit prostitutes, and do everything else that was forbidden back in Saudi Arabia. It was in the context of talking with Egyptian friends about my research on Gulf tourism that the issue of prostitution first came up. If I said that I was going to such-and-such a nightclub to observe, and that nightclub was known to be a hangout for Gulf Arabs in the summer, my friends would all try to dissuade me: "Don't go there, men will harass you. They'll think you're a prostitute." Knowing, as I did, that my Saudi friends came to Egypt for fairly wholesome vacation fun, I thought this was an interesting allegation. I wondered: Why were these Egyptians (who never had any personal contact with Saudi tourists) convinced that Saudis were coming to Egypt to find prostitutes?
So I started paying close attention to Egyptian assertions about the link between Gulf tourism and prostitution as part of my research.
'Prostitution' and Social Class
But soon I noticed people talking about "prostitution" in contexts that had nothing to do with tourism. One night I was at a restaurant with a group of upper-middle class Egyptian friends. One of them, Ayman, was twirling his fork on the table when suddenly he said to me, "Look, Lisa, a case study." With the fork he pointed in the direction of two women with short hair who were sitting at a table in the corner.
"You really think they're prostitutes?" Case study had become our code word for a prostitute because of my academic interest in the subject.
Lina looked over and agreed with Ayman. "Definitely case studies."
"I just don't see it," I said with some frustration. "What is it about them that makes you identify them as prostitutes?"
The others couldn't point out anything specific. But they were positive that these women were indeed "prostitutes."
"Look, there must be something that makes you say 'that's a prostitute.' There must be something that you all see with your cultural knowledge that I don't see. Try to analyze it. Try to explain it to me so I can see through your eyes."
Ayman just shrugged, but Lina made an attempt. "It's a lot of things -- they way they look, the way they dress, their makeup, their attitude, the expressions on their face, their body language ... "
Lina's boyfriend, Zeid, added, "And it's a combination of these things and not one alone -- for example, you couldn't say that someone is a prostitute just from the way she's dressed because someone else could expose just as much skin and people would think she looks like a decent, respectable girl."
I was skeptical. "So we're making up a story about them for ourselves, but we don't know for sure. Probably lots of people look at us and say the same things about me too."
"No, you don't look like a prostitute. First of all, you're always with the same people, in a mixed group of men and women. The worst they might think is that you're the girlfriend of one of the guys in the group, but we don't sit close together or touch, so they probably wouldn't even think that. Second of all, your makeup isn't like those women. They're wearing thick black kohl all around their eyes, top and bottom. Third of all, your clothes are more decent -- you cover up more than they do."
"Okay, maybe tonight I'm covered up, but sometimes I show more skin."
"Still, not like the way they're dressed. And you never wear short skirts." Zeid furrowed his brow as he watched the two women walk towards the bathroom. "Okay, look, I found one thing that I can point out about those women. You see that one that's wearing the short sleeveless dress? Look, you can see her bra underneath the arm-holes. And the hem keeps turning up and showing her slip. Put the two things together and you can see that they aren't used to dressing up and looking comfortable in elegant clothes."
Aha! I thought. These women didn't look like the upper class elite, who were the only kind of women who could be from "respectable" families and still stay out that late and dress in such clothing. Most women from the lower and middle classes would not be allowed by their families to stay out so late, dress skimpily, and go to a restaurant with a bar like the one we were at; if they were doing so, it must mean that their families weren't enforcing their daughters' respectability through curfews and close monitoring of their behavior.
More than Money
So I had another clue: The label "prostitute" wasn't just associated with Gulf tourism. It had something to do with social class, and the way that class intersected with taste, dress, makeup, and appearance.
But the next time the word came up, I was confused all over again. It was a couple of weeks later, and I was back at the same restaurant with the same group of friends. Ayman leaned over to me and said, "You see that woman with the long wavy black hair sitting at the end of the bar?"
"The one wearing the skirt with the long slit up to her thigh?"
"Right. This woman is well known for being very wealthy and loose. Her father died and she inherited a lot of money and she has her own apartment and she has sexual relationships with men just for pleasure. She's a prostitute."
Ayman had been speaking in Arabic, but as usual, he used the English word "prostitute." This linguistic code-shifting was used whenever Egyptians wanted to talk about a socially risqué subject without sounding vulgar. No man could politely use the Arabic word sharmouta in mixed company.
"How do you know?" I asked him. "And how do you know her, anyway?"
"I know some of the men who dated her. They told me. But apart from that, it's obvious by the fact that she has her own apartment. A respectable woman does not live alone."
"I live alone."
"You're a foreigner."
"So people will think that I'm not respectable?"
"No, of course not, everyone knows that you don't have a choice. You can't live with your family, and anyway, people here know that family ties aren't so strong in the West and people don't live with their families."
"I'm very close to my family."
He laughed. "Lisa, I'm not talking about you. Don't get so defensive."
"Well, maybe that woman just likes to spend her money and she wants to have her own place instead of living with her mother."
"Yes, and why does she like to have her own place instead of living with her mother? Because she wants to live in a way that she can't live if she's with her mother. Which means she wants to bring men home with her. A respectable woman doesn't live alone. She lives either in her parents' house or in her husband's house."
Two weeks earlier I had thought that I'd put my finger on what my Egyptian friends thought a prostitute looked like. If a woman was out alone late at night and didn't look wealthy enough, inferred through a mixture of her clothes and style of makeup, then she must be a prostitute. The link between prostitution and class was, I thought, obvious: a middle- or upper-class woman didn't need money, so she didn't need to sell her body like a poorer woman might. That also, I thought, explained the association made by many Egyptians between Gulf tourism and prostitution: Gulf Arabs were thought to be fabulously wealthy with oil money. By comparison, most Egyptians were poor. Thus, my friends assumed that Egyptian women who associated with Gulf tourists must be prostitutes.
But this latest revelation by Ayman threw my interpretation into doubt. This woman he was labeling a "prostitute" was independently wealthy. She had no need to sell her sexuality. So what was it that made her a prostitute?
'Respectable' Women Get Paid, Too
Eventually I realized that the reason I was struggling to understand the concept of a prostitute had everything to do with my own preconceptions about sex and money. I thought of prostitutes as women who had sex for money. But as I reflected on my friends' relationships and the role that money played in them, I remembered that all of my Egyptian female friends took money from the men they were dating or married to. It didn't matter whether they were rich or poor, or even whether the men could afford it. No matter what, their boyfriends, fiancés, or husbands paid for evenings out, for doctor visits, and often for luxury items such as jewelry and designer sunglasses. When they married, men paid women a large bride price, a sum of money up to $10,000 that was hers to spend as she liked. Married men usually gave their wives stipends, even if the wives had their own jobs.
In short, it was not the injection of money into a sexual relationship that defined it as prostitution. While everyone agreed that "prostitutes" probably did accept money in exchange for sexual acts, the exchange wasn't seen as fundamentally different from that of an unmarried woman who had sexual relationships with boyfriends who supported her financially. Both were seen as existing on a continuum of immoral sexuality, but that didn't necessarily mean the women were "prostitutes."
Nor was "prostitution" even necessarily about sex, since a woman could be labeled a prostitute when there was no proof that she was sexually active at all. For example, sometimes Zeid and Lina would have disputes over whether a particular friend of Lina's was a "prostitute" or not. Zeid, for example, claimed that one of Lina's childhood friends was a prostitute because she drove around alone after midnight. Lina argued, "She's just bored! She's so innocent, you can't believe it -- she's never even been kissed!"
"I don't care. She's still a prostitute if she's driving around alone after midnight!" Zeid said stubbornly.
What is involved in defining a prostitute in Egypt, then, is a complex moral judgment about a woman's social behavior, the number of her sexual partners, the extent to which she submits to familial controls over her social life, and her loyalty to her current romantic partner. Nationality comes into play in the examples above because of the way it overlaps with class and power in the Middle East: Egyptian women who socialize with Gulf Arab tourists might be thought prostitutes, not necessarily because there's a sex-for-cash exchange taking place (remember: wherever there's a romantic relationship, there's money changing hands), but because the financial-power differential between wealthy men and poorer women suggests to Egyptians that these women's sociability and sexuality -- and thus their respectability -- is no longer controlled by their families. (And all of this explains why, at the dinner party in the home of a wealthy Egyptian man, the belly dancer Malak agreed with me that as long as businessmen were mingling with unattached women, any one of us could be labeled a prostitute.)
Sharmouta, the term that my Egyptian friends from all different classes tended to translate as "prostitute" (but which might be better rendered as "whore"), is a highly pejorative term, and sharply contested. Egyptian women tend to resist the term, like Lina, because they understand how easily it can be used to criticize any woman who defies social codes of female respectability in one way or another. It operates at the intersection of female sexuality and independence. As such, prostitution in Egypt is only partly about sex and money.
* All names have been changed to protect the privacy of informants.
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Posted by: technophobicgeek on Jun 27, 2008 3:16 AM
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I think a lot of this meaning around the word 'prostitute' (the English word, I mean) holds in other Asian countries too. I think it was very insightful of you to point out that the English word has its own social and moral Connotations, and cannot be used as an exact substitute.
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» RE: "Slut"?
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: "Slut"? or "Whore?"
Posted by: kiel
» RE: "Slut"? or "Whore?"
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: nisa on Jun 27, 2008 4:28 AM
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Your rich Egyptian friends may have had a lot of money, which makes them part of the elite, but it doesn't make them classy people. First of all, no God-fearing Egyptian would make light of accusing another Muslim of having sexual affairs. Also, respectable Egyptians don't hang out in places that women they consider to be prostitutes frequent. The fact that they would continue to go to such a place, believing prostitutes go there, is sheer hypocrisy. The fact that Egyptian males would sit there with you a female describing other women as prostitutes also shows their lack of respectability, especially in front of their so-called girlfriends. And then to sit there and make nasty remarks about their girlfriends' friends.
Because that is all you have seen of Egyptian society, you have a warped sense of what makes a sharmouta. Most Egyptians would actually probably think the same about your upper class friends. I mean what is a girl doing out at night with a boyfriend in a place full of alleged prostitutes? In fact, people who aren't your upper class friends probably would assume you were a sharmouta too!
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Posted by: talkville on Jun 27, 2008 5:26 AM
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It's interesting to find out about the use of terms by the Egyptians. Perhaps, some day, we can take up an assessment of similar uses of terminology in our own societies. Just how do terms such as 'prostitute' and 'prostitution' (or, for that matter, 'terror', 'war', 'security', 'safety', 'sexy', etc.) function in our own socio-cultural environment?
For myself, it doesn't seem to me that the Egyptians are much different than ourselves. After all, prostitutes abound in our society and not only in the dark out-of-the-way places nor with regard to males or females but in the highest and most hallowed Institutions that characterize our own social organizations. Even in Fictional Individuals! Here, too, The Word slips, slides, oscillates, flows, electrifies, numbs, confuses, obfuscates, masks... . In these matters, I can think of very few languages more suitable to such endeavors than English, nor of human beings more given to making use of its language for providing pre-text and excuse for deeds, attitudes, behaviors and purposes not so precisely interested in the advancement of human conditions. Let's not be too hasty in condemning the Egyptians for their own usages, especially in these times of Religious and faith-based one-upman-ship. In our own times, exchanging the Body for gratification of the Soul or Self (it's Modern equivalent, it seems) is not such a Foreign activity or livelihood profession. After all, it was out of regions where Egypt is found that our own 'Western Civilization' originated and developed.
There, as here, the Body and the Female and the Feminine are feared, hated and despised, and by more individuals than would like to confess to such feelings and emotions. It's 'traditional values' at their most long-lived and transmitted and carries more than 2500 years of 'refinement' and rationalizations with it. Dualism has a long and indeed tortuous history and it yet thrives.
Other terms that contest for Key-Word status to notice these days: Ascetic and Asceticism; Purity; Health; Science; Faith; Fitness; Technology; Control; Obedience; Virtue.
Ask Rupert Murdoch. Ask the abundance of workers (prostitutes?) of "Creatives" who labor in Public Relations firms, Marketing Programs, the Pentagon... . In order to 'earn a livelihood' just what do they 'exchange' for money, for wages?
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» RE: Not only in Egypt...
Posted by: nisa
» RE: Not only in Egypt...
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Not only in Egypt...
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Posted by: L.L.Wynn on Jun 29, 2008 6:36 PM
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Thanks for your thoughtful comments and engagement with this article. I didn't have the space in this short piece to do a comparison between Egypt and another country such as the U.S., but what I hoped this article would implicitly do is provoke us to think about what terms like "whore" and "slut" do in English-speaking societies. In writing about Egypt, I didn't mean to suggest that Egyptian society was somehow unique in the way judgment was pronounced on women's sexuality, and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that it doesn’t happen in the same way in other societies. So this comments forum is a great opportunity to think through the comparison.
First, to parse the terminology a bit: For some reason my friends and informants knew the term "prostitute" but didn't know the term "whore." Even working class people who lived in the slums -- and no, nisa, I didn't just spend all my time with upper class elites -- who didn't know more than a handful of English words still knew the word "prostitute" and said that word as a politer version of the Arabic term sharmouta. But whore is really the best translation, and better than slut because while slut simply connotes someone who has sex indiscriminately, whore can signify both this as well as someone who takes money for sex acts.
So let's think about the term whore and what it does in English. First, it is used almost exclusively to refer to women. Yes, people can say that a man is a whore, but there’s a kind of ironic effect to that usage (like calling a man “pretty”). It’s the same in Arabic, incidentally: I knew both men and women who would occasionally call a man a “sharmout,” but again it was applied somewhat ironically and it didn’t have quite the same pejorative connotations that it did when applied to a woman. A man who has sexual experience before marriage is congratulated by all except the most devoutly religious, while a woman who does the same is almost universally condemned.
So far, it looks like the terms whore and sharmouta operate in roughly the same sexist ways in both Egyptian and American societies: basically, they criticize a woman whose sexuality isn’t seen as being sufficiently contained within socially normative roles and actions. So where is the difference? I think there are two points at which we can see it:
(1) in the sense that money is an intrinsic part of a romantic relationship in Egypt (and while it is also true in the U.S. that many believe a man should pick up the tab when he’s on a date, it is not quite the same obligation that it is in Egypt, where a man should not only pay for dinner and a movie but also for the doctor appointments and a range of other financial obligations of the women they are dating);
and (2) in the sense that the term can be applied to a woman who is not necessarily even having sex with anyone.
But these are differences along a continuum of sameness. talkville, I certainly didn't mean to imply that somehow Egypt was unique or uniquely to blame in this regard. The fact that you read the article as a negative cultural comparison is interesting, though, and points to an important aspect of the politics of representation that we anthropologists who work in the Middle East have to constantly bear in mind.
So nisa, yes, you bet, I was certainly seen as a sharmouta by many (including my then-husband -- but that's another story :). That was precisely my point! It’s not a quality that one person inherently has; it doesn’t signal a formal profession. It’s a way of critiquing a woman’s behaviour.
Cheers,
Lisa
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Posted by: L.L.Wynn
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Posted by: davmills on Jun 30, 2008 6:23 AM
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And what about the male version of this: I have read that gay prostitution exists in Egyt; they are probably subject to even more vilification, if only because what they are practicing is considered beyond the pale.
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Posted by: SunandSea on Jun 30, 2008 6:34 AM
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Why does the woman usually get blamed for the "inappropriate conduct", at whatever level or context? If it weren't for the male succumbing to these naughty invitations, the women's reputations would still be noble.
So a man has more money and power than he knows what to do with. A woman wants/needs her share of that money and uses her seductive sexual power to acquire it. The man cannot resist the temptation of the pleasure, no matter what his strict religious beliefs may be.
So who/what is really to blame? Religion? Money? Weak-minded men? The sex drive contributed by mother nature? Women as second-class citizens? The apple?
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 30, 2008 8:03 AM
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Posted by: cyr3n on Jun 30, 2008 8:21 AM
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Posted by: aamer923 on Jun 30, 2008 8:46 PM
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1. prostitution in Egypt and US may be used to describe anybody who defies social norms
2. only women are subject to this treatment, not men. Both in the US and elsewhere.
Couple of other points
1. "dating" as such and "girlfriends" as such are not acceptable in the middle east. Engaged people may go out, until they get married. That is it. Anything outside of that is not the norm in egypt or any muslim culture.
2. It takes forever to understand such issues. I do not know how long was your stay. But As an egytian here in the US, I still do not understand many social arrangements here in the US after TWENTY years here.
3. You did understand a lot on Egypt. And I commend you for seeing the similarities between a poor developing Islamic country and a rich super developed country like the US.
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» RE: Good Article On Sex, Dating and the treatment of women across cultures
Posted by: maxfactor
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Posted by: DesertStone on Jul 1, 2008 8:23 AM
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There is also irony in western populations looking down their noses at sexism in other cultures when theirs is a world where you can readily buy 10 minute increments with Slavic sex slaves who spend their days posed in store windows or become a millionaire adored by celebrities for getting inebriated teenaged girls to lift their tops for a camera or where becoming a starving fashion model is the best hope a girl has for wealth and glory.
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Posted by: janvdb on Jul 3, 2008 11:42 AM
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Women who do anything for money other than exchange sex or "women's work" for it are "bitches."
Women who survive solely by exchanging sex and "women's work" with men for money, including things like housing, cars and groceries are "good women."
Women who exchange sex for money but don't get housing are "whores."
That pretty much covers all women. Anywhere.
You're broke, helpless and homeless without the man -- or there is a dirty name for you.
Regardless of what you do with sex.
Plan on it.
You can translate the names variously (I'd say the word "prostitute" in Eqyptian is a pretty good approximation of "slut") but the concepts stand pretty much worldwide.
You are obedient, desperate, helpless and have nothing other than what the man gives you in exchange for your body and your mind -- or you're a whore, a slut and/or a bitch.
That's the deal. Just about anywhere.
I chose "bitch" a long time ago but people still call me a "slut" sometimes.
Better than being an overworked "whore" or, heaven forbid, the cowardly, gutless, boot-licking "good woman."
She's the real obscenity.
Jan VanDenBerg
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Posted by: mlynxqualey on Jul 4, 2008 7:58 AM
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I realize this is a temptation, but I worry that absolutes will "other" the Masriyeen (in an otherwise carefully done piece). The reader, of course, knows that there are exceptions in her/his home culture--but somehow we're willing to believe there aren't exceptions in cultures of the "other." It kind of works against what you're saying. There are these women who are exceptions, and are therefore labeled sharmouta. But then you're saying there aren't exceptions, "wherever there's a romantic relationship...."
Anyhow. It's a small point. My other comment: I haven't been called a whore/sharmouta (to my knowledge), although in the States I've often felt defined by the term "femi-Nazi" and its ilk.
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Posted by: dstructor on Jul 22, 2008 1:04 AM
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I think if a woman, here, is deemed a whore it's usually because she busted through a person's (usually men) idea of what's approperiate and most times inapproperiate is sexually appealing (i feel sorry for girls; sexy is bad & non-sexy is dull, by social standards of course...)
Being a guy who learned about seduction and skills with women i'm WAY more open that some of my friends and I noticed that it's like a love-hate, passive-aggressive relationship; these people are, infact, turned on by the skin, the makeup & bare-underwear they see...but due to the belief that they "can't touch this" and the amount of anxiety it creats it leads them to not only fight their instincts, sexuality and nature but also fight what triggered it
Some even HAVE to deem a woman a prostitute because they need something to stop them from feeling these urges (which their statisfaction is out of the question)and take their mind off the thought i'm so ashamed of being turned on and replace it with She should be ashamed for turning me on so much
Text-book denial & escapism; to me it was because of the punishment i took as a kid when i realized women are "different", that was my case anyway and thank god that I saw through that fear & pain to see & appreciate women as a whole package (personality, sexuality & looks) without all the drama
LOL it was funny reading tho; you're trying to analyze and interpert what makes a woman a whore or a sharmoota by egyptian men & women
Simply put:
Men: Women that turn them on sexually big time but can't have them
Women: Women who turn on men more than them
Clear enough ? heh
Take care babe
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Posted by: technophobicgeek on Jun 27, 2008 3:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think a lot of this meaning around the word 'prostitute' (the English word, I mean) holds in other Asian countries too. I think it was very insightful of you to point out that the English word has its own social and moral Connotations, and cannot be used as an exact substitute.
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» RE: "Slut"?
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: "Slut"? or "Whore?"
Posted by: kiel
» RE: "Slut"? or "Whore?"
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: nisa on Jun 27, 2008 4:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your rich Egyptian friends may have had a lot of money, which makes them part of the elite, but it doesn't make them classy people. First of all, no God-fearing Egyptian would make light of accusing another Muslim of having sexual affairs. Also, respectable Egyptians don't hang out in places that women they consider to be prostitutes frequent. The fact that they would continue to go to such a place, believing prostitutes go there, is sheer hypocrisy. The fact that Egyptian males would sit there with you a female describing other women as prostitutes also shows their lack of respectability, especially in front of their so-called girlfriends. And then to sit there and make nasty remarks about their girlfriends' friends.
Because that is all you have seen of Egyptian society, you have a warped sense of what makes a sharmouta. Most Egyptians would actually probably think the same about your upper class friends. I mean what is a girl doing out at night with a boyfriend in a place full of alleged prostitutes? In fact, people who aren't your upper class friends probably would assume you were a sharmouta too!
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Posted by: talkville on Jun 27, 2008 5:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting to find out about the use of terms by the Egyptians. Perhaps, some day, we can take up an assessment of similar uses of terminology in our own societies. Just how do terms such as 'prostitute' and 'prostitution' (or, for that matter, 'terror', 'war', 'security', 'safety', 'sexy', etc.) function in our own socio-cultural environment?
For myself, it doesn't seem to me that the Egyptians are much different than ourselves. After all, prostitutes abound in our society and not only in the dark out-of-the-way places nor with regard to males or females but in the highest and most hallowed Institutions that characterize our own social organizations. Even in Fictional Individuals! Here, too, The Word slips, slides, oscillates, flows, electrifies, numbs, confuses, obfuscates, masks... . In these matters, I can think of very few languages more suitable to such endeavors than English, nor of human beings more given to making use of its language for providing pre-text and excuse for deeds, attitudes, behaviors and purposes not so precisely interested in the advancement of human conditions. Let's not be too hasty in condemning the Egyptians for their own usages, especially in these times of Religious and faith-based one-upman-ship. In our own times, exchanging the Body for gratification of the Soul or Self (it's Modern equivalent, it seems) is not such a Foreign activity or livelihood profession. After all, it was out of regions where Egypt is found that our own 'Western Civilization' originated and developed.
There, as here, the Body and the Female and the Feminine are feared, hated and despised, and by more individuals than would like to confess to such feelings and emotions. It's 'traditional values' at their most long-lived and transmitted and carries more than 2500 years of 'refinement' and rationalizations with it. Dualism has a long and indeed tortuous history and it yet thrives.
Other terms that contest for Key-Word status to notice these days: Ascetic and Asceticism; Purity; Health; Science; Faith; Fitness; Technology; Control; Obedience; Virtue.
Ask Rupert Murdoch. Ask the abundance of workers (prostitutes?) of "Creatives" who labor in Public Relations firms, Marketing Programs, the Pentagon... . In order to 'earn a livelihood' just what do they 'exchange' for money, for wages?
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» RE: Not only in Egypt...
Posted by: nisa
» RE: Not only in Egypt...
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Not only in Egypt...
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: L.L.Wynn on Jun 29, 2008 6:36 PM
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Thanks for your thoughtful comments and engagement with this article. I didn't have the space in this short piece to do a comparison between Egypt and another country such as the U.S., but what I hoped this article would implicitly do is provoke us to think about what terms like "whore" and "slut" do in English-speaking societies. In writing about Egypt, I didn't mean to suggest that Egyptian society was somehow unique in the way judgment was pronounced on women's sexuality, and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that it doesn’t happen in the same way in other societies. So this comments forum is a great opportunity to think through the comparison.
First, to parse the terminology a bit: For some reason my friends and informants knew the term "prostitute" but didn't know the term "whore." Even working class people who lived in the slums -- and no, nisa, I didn't just spend all my time with upper class elites -- who didn't know more than a handful of English words still knew the word "prostitute" and said that word as a politer version of the Arabic term sharmouta. But whore is really the best translation, and better than slut because while slut simply connotes someone who has sex indiscriminately, whore can signify both this as well as someone who takes money for sex acts.
So let's think about the term whore and what it does in English. First, it is used almost exclusively to refer to women. Yes, people can say that a man is a whore, but there’s a kind of ironic effect to that usage (like calling a man “pretty”). It’s the same in Arabic, incidentally: I knew both men and women who would occasionally call a man a “sharmout,” but again it was applied somewhat ironically and it didn’t have quite the same pejorative connotations that it did when applied to a woman. A man who has sexual experience before marriage is congratulated by all except the most devoutly religious, while a woman who does the same is almost universally condemned.
So far, it looks like the terms whore and sharmouta operate in roughly the same sexist ways in both Egyptian and American societies: basically, they criticize a woman whose sexuality isn’t seen as being sufficiently contained within socially normative roles and actions. So where is the difference? I think there are two points at which we can see it:
(1) in the sense that money is an intrinsic part of a romantic relationship in Egypt (and while it is also true in the U.S. that many believe a man should pick up the tab when he’s on a date, it is not quite the same obligation that it is in Egypt, where a man should not only pay for dinner and a movie but also for the doctor appointments and a range of other financial obligations of the women they are dating);
and (2) in the sense that the term can be applied to a woman who is not necessarily even having sex with anyone.
But these are differences along a continuum of sameness. talkville, I certainly didn't mean to imply that somehow Egypt was unique or uniquely to blame in this regard. The fact that you read the article as a negative cultural comparison is interesting, though, and points to an important aspect of the politics of representation that we anthropologists who work in the Middle East have to constantly bear in mind.
So nisa, yes, you bet, I was certainly seen as a sharmouta by many (including my then-husband -- but that's another story :). That was precisely my point! It’s not a quality that one person inherently has; it doesn’t signal a formal profession. It’s a way of critiquing a woman’s behaviour.
Cheers,
Lisa
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» RE: L.L. Wynn
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: L.L. Wynn
Posted by: L.L.Wynn
» RE: L.L. Wynn
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: L.L. Wynn
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: davmills on Jun 30, 2008 6:23 AM
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And what about the male version of this: I have read that gay prostitution exists in Egyt; they are probably subject to even more vilification, if only because what they are practicing is considered beyond the pale.
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Posted by: SunandSea on Jun 30, 2008 6:34 AM
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Why does the woman usually get blamed for the "inappropriate conduct", at whatever level or context? If it weren't for the male succumbing to these naughty invitations, the women's reputations would still be noble.
So a man has more money and power than he knows what to do with. A woman wants/needs her share of that money and uses her seductive sexual power to acquire it. The man cannot resist the temptation of the pleasure, no matter what his strict religious beliefs may be.
So who/what is really to blame? Religion? Money? Weak-minded men? The sex drive contributed by mother nature? Women as second-class citizens? The apple?
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 30, 2008 8:03 AM
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Posted by: cyr3n on Jun 30, 2008 8:21 AM
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Posted by: aamer923 on Jun 30, 2008 8:46 PM
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1. prostitution in Egypt and US may be used to describe anybody who defies social norms
2. only women are subject to this treatment, not men. Both in the US and elsewhere.
Couple of other points
1. "dating" as such and "girlfriends" as such are not acceptable in the middle east. Engaged people may go out, until they get married. That is it. Anything outside of that is not the norm in egypt or any muslim culture.
2. It takes forever to understand such issues. I do not know how long was your stay. But As an egytian here in the US, I still do not understand many social arrangements here in the US after TWENTY years here.
3. You did understand a lot on Egypt. And I commend you for seeing the similarities between a poor developing Islamic country and a rich super developed country like the US.
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» RE: Good Article On Sex, Dating and the treatment of women across cultures
Posted by: maxfactor
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Posted by: DesertStone on Jul 1, 2008 8:23 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is also irony in western populations looking down their noses at sexism in other cultures when theirs is a world where you can readily buy 10 minute increments with Slavic sex slaves who spend their days posed in store windows or become a millionaire adored by celebrities for getting inebriated teenaged girls to lift their tops for a camera or where becoming a starving fashion model is the best hope a girl has for wealth and glory.
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Posted by: janvdb on Jul 3, 2008 11:42 AM
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Women who do anything for money other than exchange sex or "women's work" for it are "bitches."
Women who survive solely by exchanging sex and "women's work" with men for money, including things like housing, cars and groceries are "good women."
Women who exchange sex for money but don't get housing are "whores."
That pretty much covers all women. Anywhere.
You're broke, helpless and homeless without the man -- or there is a dirty name for you.
Regardless of what you do with sex.
Plan on it.
You can translate the names variously (I'd say the word "prostitute" in Eqyptian is a pretty good approximation of "slut") but the concepts stand pretty much worldwide.
You are obedient, desperate, helpless and have nothing other than what the man gives you in exchange for your body and your mind -- or you're a whore, a slut and/or a bitch.
That's the deal. Just about anywhere.
I chose "bitch" a long time ago but people still call me a "slut" sometimes.
Better than being an overworked "whore" or, heaven forbid, the cowardly, gutless, boot-licking "good woman."
She's the real obscenity.
Jan VanDenBerg
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Posted by: mlynxqualey on Jul 4, 2008 7:58 AM
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I realize this is a temptation, but I worry that absolutes will "other" the Masriyeen (in an otherwise carefully done piece). The reader, of course, knows that there are exceptions in her/his home culture--but somehow we're willing to believe there aren't exceptions in cultures of the "other." It kind of works against what you're saying. There are these women who are exceptions, and are therefore labeled sharmouta. But then you're saying there aren't exceptions, "wherever there's a romantic relationship...."
Anyhow. It's a small point. My other comment: I haven't been called a whore/sharmouta (to my knowledge), although in the States I've often felt defined by the term "femi-Nazi" and its ilk.
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Posted by: dstructor on Jul 22, 2008 1:04 AM
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I think if a woman, here, is deemed a whore it's usually because she busted through a person's (usually men) idea of what's approperiate and most times inapproperiate is sexually appealing (i feel sorry for girls; sexy is bad & non-sexy is dull, by social standards of course...)
Being a guy who learned about seduction and skills with women i'm WAY more open that some of my friends and I noticed that it's like a love-hate, passive-aggressive relationship; these people are, infact, turned on by the skin, the makeup & bare-underwear they see...but due to the belief that they "can't touch this" and the amount of anxiety it creats it leads them to not only fight their instincts, sexuality and nature but also fight what triggered it
Some even HAVE to deem a woman a prostitute because they need something to stop them from feeling these urges (which their statisfaction is out of the question)and take their mind off the thought i'm so ashamed of being turned on and replace it with She should be ashamed for turning me on so much
Text-book denial & escapism; to me it was because of the punishment i took as a kid when i realized women are "different", that was my case anyway and thank god that I saw through that fear & pain to see & appreciate women as a whole package (personality, sexuality & looks) without all the drama
LOL it was funny reading tho; you're trying to analyze and interpert what makes a woman a whore or a sharmoota by egyptian men & women
Simply put:
Men: Women that turn them on sexually big time but can't have them
Women: Women who turn on men more than them
Clear enough ? heh
Take care babe
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