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What's Wrong with Staying Single?
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I didn't love everything about my single life. I didn't like that "poor thing" look I'd get when others first learned that I was single. I didn't like their assumption that I must be miserable and lonely and pining for a partner.
There were other things I didn't like that I thought I could pin on my single status, but I wasn't really sure. For example, sometimes at work colleagues with partners would assume that I could cover the tasks that no one else wanted. Maybe they presumed that since I was single, I didn't have a life and so had nothing better to do with my time. Socially, I was invited to lunch with my coupled colleagues during the week but not to their dinner and movie outings over the weekends.
Tentatively at first, I began asking other single people if they thought they were viewed and treated differently than coupled people just because they were single. The responses were overwhelming. It was time to proceed beyond anecdotes.
Years later after I had read hundreds of scientific studies about marital status, happiness, and discrimination, and after I conducted my own program of research, I realized that much of the conventional wisdom about people who are single was either grossly exaggerated or just plain wrong. The place of singles in society and the significance of getting married have changed dramatically over the past decades. But our views of single and married people have not yet caught up. I wrote about this in my book Singled Out: How Singles Are Stereotyped, Stigmatized, and Ignored, and Still Live Happily Ever After. The subtitle captures what I learned about singles. Let me explain.
After collecting stories of singlehood, informally, from hundreds of others, I began conducting systematic research. My colleague Wendy Morris and I first studied perceptions of people who are single and married. We approached this work in a number of ways. In one set of studies, for instance, we created profiles of married and single people that were exactly the same (in terms of the person's age, hometown, interests, employment, and so forth) except for their marital status. In one experiment after another, we found that the single people were viewed more negatively than the married people. For example, they were seen as unhappy, lonely, and self-centered compared to their married counterparts. (The one exception is that single people were consistently viewed as more independent than married people.)
We looked up federal statutes and found more than a thousand instances in which official marriage was linked to federal protections and benefits. We found discrimination against singles in the workplace and the marketplace. We then did research of our own on discrimination and found that realtors (and other people we asked) would prefer to rent to married couples than to single women, single men, unmarried couples, or a pair of friends -- even when they all had equally positive references and ability to pay. They even preferred the married couple to the unmarried couple when the unmarried couple had been together six years, compared to only six months for the married couple.
The story that was taking shape in my mind was becoming clear. Single people are not as happy as married people in part because they are targets of stereotyping and discrimination.
At first I did not doubt that getting married made people happier. I saw indications of that in headlines and book titles. In fact, the assumption had become so much a part of conventional wisdom that some began to build other arguments on that foundation. In an op-ed in The New York Times, for instance, Jonathan Rauch argued that gay men and lesbians should be allowed to marry because social science research shows that marriage makes people happier.
When I set out to study the research on marital status and happiness, I thought I was looking for nuances -- are there some people who benefit from marriage even more than others? I was amazed by what I found.
In the typical study people in different categories are asked to rate their happiness, perhaps on a 1 to 4 scale, with 4 indicating "very happy". The categories usually include people who are single (and always have been), currently married, divorced, or widowed. Here are the results of one such study by Walter R. Gove and Hee-Choon Shin published in 1989; the numbers are the average happiness ratings of 2,200 Americans in the four groups:
3.3 currently married
3.2 single
2.9 divorced
2.9 widowed
The first thing to notice is that all four groups are on the happy end of the scale. They are all closer to calling themselves a 3 in happiness (the scale point that has the label "pretty happy") than to any other label. Second, the differences between the groups are not impressive, and the smallest difference is between those who are currently married and those who have always been single.
I'm mentioning this particular study because it is based on a nationally representative sample and because it is often cited by scholars who claim that getting married makes people happier. They look at numbers like these and say, "Look, the married people are happier than all of the unmarried people." But even if the differences were much greater than they actually are, we still could not say for sure that getting married is what made the married people happier. Maybe they were already happier when they were single, and getting married didn't change anything. Also, why not compare all of the people who had ever been married to the people who had never been married? In that comparison, the people who had ever experienced marriage would have an average happiness rating of about 3.0, lower than the 3.2 of the people who had always been single.
A better answer to the question of whether getting married makes people happier would come from studying people over the course of their lives, to see whether people who get married become happier than they were before. Professor Richard Lucas of Michigan State University has been analyzing data from just such a study. Thousands of Germans have been asked about their happiness once a year, every year, starting at age sixteen. The study has been ongoing for more than eighteen years. Lucas followed people who got married and stayed married over the course of the study, people who stayed single the entire time, and people who married and then became divorced or widowed.
Consistent with the study I described previously (in which people were asked about their happiness just once), both the married and the single people were solidly on the happy end of the scale. In this type of study it is possible to look back at the people who got married and stayed married to see how happy they were when they were single.
On the average, people who stayed single the whole time had a happiness rating of 7.0. (In this study, people rated their happiness on a scale ranging from 0 to 10.) On the other hand, married people had a happiness rating of 7.2 when they were single. What happened once they married? Around the year of the wedding, they enjoyed a brief blip in happiness. On the average, they became about .25 points happier than they were before. But after that honeymoon period was over, they went back to being as happy or as unhappy as they had been when they were single. So getting married did not transform them from miserable single people into blissfully wedded couples!
Moreover, the small increment in happiness around the time of the wedding occurred only for those who got married and stayed married. Those who would eventually divorce became slightly less happy as the time of the wedding approached.
So single people typically are happy, and getting married does not make people lastingly happier, even for those who get married and stay married. How can this be? Single people do not have the official, legal coupled status that is so celebrated in our society -- and many are not part of any couple, formal or informal, same-sex or different-sex. Plus, they are targets of stereotyping and discrimination. Why aren't they miserable and lonely?
The ways we have come to talk about people who are single is misleading. We often say, for example, that they are "alone" and that they "don't have anyone". In fact, though, single people (perhaps especially single women) are likely to have whole networks of important people in their lives. They often have friendships that have outlasted many marriages. They have not invested all of their emotional and interpersonal capital into just one person.
Decades ago there was a big bright line separating married life from single life -- a line that was especially daunting to women. Singles often felt that they could not have sex or children outside of marriage without experiencing stigma and shame. The Food and Drug Administration did not approve the pill until 1960. Before then, having sex entailed a greater risk of pregnancy. Now women can have sex without having children, and because of advances in medical reproductive science, they can have children without having sex. Marriage is no longer essential to any of it.
Even though women are still sometimes paid less than men for the same work, there are more jobs and better jobs open to women than there were decades ago. That means that women are no longer tethered to husbands for economic life support. Many can support themselves and even some children on their own paychecks.
There is a remarkable new demographic reality: Americans now spend more years of their adult lives unmarried than married. There are currently fewer households comprised of mom, dad, and the kids than of single people living solo.
Increasingly, people who are single are living their lives fully. Those who have the resources to do so are buying homes, traveling the world, and pursuing their passions. Their lives are meaningful -- and yes, they are happy.
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Posted by: Thetorganization on Feb 18, 2008 12:41 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although this article comes off very well and good, not everyone has a burning desire to be alone for the rest of their lives.
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» we're NOT alone
Posted by: deborama
» RE: we're NOT alone
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: we're NOT alone *PERFECT EXAMPLE OF SINGLETON DISCRIMINATION HERE**
Posted by: maribelle
» Whoa there!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Whoa there! **TO HAGWIND**
Posted by: maribelle
» oh yea?
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Whoa there! **TO HAGWIND**
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: let's clarify, maribelle
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: donl51
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: goeswithness
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: marilee
» Sucks for you, maybe...
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» Some people just don't believe in love anymore
Posted by: timemachinist
» RE: Some people just don't believe in love anymore - there are good women out there
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Stop being such a sentimentalist timemachinist
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» RE: Stop being such a sentimentalist timemachinist
Posted by: abbadon2007
» In defense of love
Posted by: timemachinist
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Posted by: aberdeen on Feb 18, 2008 12:52 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, many family situations are not ideal but overall, consider the travesty for children in children if there were no family at all. It is both interesting and telling, that many so-called modern "thinkers", such as this author, make no mention of children's happiness, well-being or emotional security, in their haste to afford adults whatever pleasure suits our fancy and let the chips fall where they may.
When one talks about the joys of sex inside and outside of marriage, one needs to consider the ultimate societal consequences, as well as the immediate physical pleasure. That is, if one gives a damn about our children, which apparently such thought has never crossed this author's myopic mind.
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» Selfish is selfish.
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» RE: Selfish is selfish.
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» Sometimes, having children is the selfish thing
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» RE: Sometimes, having children is the selfish thing
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» RE: Sometimes, having children is the selfish thing
Posted by: aberdeen
» You're the One Who Mentioned Children in Your Original Post
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» RE: You're the One Who Mentioned Children in Your Original Post
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: Can see your point,somewhat!
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» What about the Chinese Children?
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» RE: What about the Chinese Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: New Testament is anti-family
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» Community...
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» RE: New Testament is anti-family
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» RE: New Testament is anti-family
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» RE: What about Children? CHILDREN ARE NOT COMPULSORY
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» RE: What about Children? CHILDREN ARE NOT COMPULSORY
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» RE: What about Children? CHILDREN ARE NOT COMPULSORY
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: What about Children?
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» RE: What about Children?
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» 15,000 children a year are adopted from US foster care by single parents
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» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: sabrinamorgan on Feb 18, 2008 1:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which makes sense - long-term relationships, let alone marriage, are hell on pessimists, whereas it's easier to attract good relationship material when you display a positive outlook (at least, judging from some of the interestingly damaged people I attracted in my Goth days...).
It also makes sense that those who are happy when single will be happy when (or if) married.
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» RE: It's not so much that marriage is causing happiness...
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: It's not so much that marriage is causing happiness...
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
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Posted by: RobNLA on Feb 18, 2008 1:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like this article says: if you were miserable as a single, marriage won't fix that...you'll just make your spouse miserable too. And if you are a happy person single, then if you get married wisely, you'll likely end up still happy.
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Posted by: socialpsych on Feb 18, 2008 4:16 AM
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Posted by: raymondg on Feb 18, 2008 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, we cannot discount that people are likely to rate themselves happier than they actually feel; this is especially true if they feel there is not much they can do about their current situation.
As someone who has been single for most of his adult life, I know there are periods when I want to do cartwheels because I don't have the attachments that come with a committed relationship. Then, there are those periods when I want to slit my wrists precisely for the same reasons. We live in a society that is obsessed with people "hooking up," so much so that to be single is in some ways an act of rebellion. But, rebellion can be liberating and exhausting all at once.
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Posted by: hagwind on Feb 18, 2008 4:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It says in Coronet Magazine,
June nineteen fifty-six, page ten,
That married women are not as happy
As women who have no men.
Married women are cranky,
Frustrated and disgusted,
While single women are bright and gay,
Creative and well adjusted.
Full lyrics here. When Malvina wrote the song, "gay" didn't have quite the double meaning that it does today, but hey, it works for me. ;-)
Maybe the situation has changed, but well into the 1970s most studies I saw suggested that single women were happier than married women, and married men were happier than single men. I figure this has something to do with the fondness that patriarchal religions have for the institution of marriage.
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» I think MEN are happier being married...
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» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
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» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
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» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
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» To each their own
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 18, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the old maid thing, how many cool single aunts are out there? I've met a few. And they seem happier and less stressed than the rest of us, don't they?...They take your kids to the zoo when you can't stand another minute of them. They're your daughter's buddy when she broke up with her boyfriend. They'll listen to your troubles when your parents don't understand you, which is most of the time. What would we do without them?
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» RE: Save the Cool Aunts
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Posted by: donl51 on Feb 18, 2008 5:21 AM
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» RE: What's wrong with staying single?
Posted by: vitajay85
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Feb 18, 2008 5:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does single life suck? It can if you let it. But considering what I did this weekend I can truly say it does not. I hung out and shared meals with friends and had really in depth conversations as well as an amazing day of skiing. Obviously not every weekend is like this, but I did not have to answer to anyones needs or desires. Certainly I would love to have shared it with that special someone. She will come along when the time is right.Until that point I am grateful for the time I can enjoy with my self and my incredible friends.
I am all for marriage and kids etc because I think that raising children properly is the most important thing we can do as humans. Sharing time with others in a healthy relationship is about the most special thing that we do. But in order to be able to have that magic in your life it is highly important to enjoy your single life to the fullest first.
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» RE: It is
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Posted by: zeofredo on Feb 18, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we look at our usual lifestyles in the West, we find that the nuclear family model: the couple-- plus kids-- is the only 'accepted' way to be. There are few instances of multi-generation households now... spouses rarely get to spend long periods of time away from their families (not including business trips for the executive elite), and large networks of friends are short-lived at best, usually terminating in one's late-20's.
Because of this, we actually have a pretty constricted arrangement that places a lot of emotional burden and social comfort exclusively on one's partner. It's a lot of work to have a happy home life... my married friends tell me all the time about 'give and take... mostly give!', and I hear laments about how old friendships have died out and the family seems to occupy all the time left over from an already-considerable work week.
For me, happiness ought to be sourced out from many directions (no, I'm NOT a promiscuous SOB!), and community and friends celebrated just as much as the personal love relationship is.
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Posted by: craigandrew on Feb 18, 2008 7:08 AM
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Coincidentally, I had blogged on such things more elaborately last week: An Inverted Beehive Part One and Part Two.
Have fun,
A happily single person.
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» Back in the day...
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Libertine on Feb 18, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barring one brief, misadvised marriage in my early 20s, I've been legally single most of my adult life. I have made a conscious choice to remain so for two major reasons.
First and most relevant in my situation, I'm a decidedly non-monogamous heterosexual and I have no desire to be anything different. I prefer having several friends with benefits and the freedom to have occasional one-night stands, rather than limiting myself to one woman. I greatly value my freedom and the privacy that comes from living alone and not living in a 24/7 domestic situation with any one woman -- I like to come and go as I please.
To me, being married is "mating in captivity" and I know that I would be miserable trying to limit myself to one woman -- and would no doubt be unable to do so for any extended period of time.
But because I'm honest, I decided to remain legally single and stay true to my own nature, rather than trying to force myself into the ill-fitting niche of marriage as it is currently defined, and inevitably becoming a "cheater".
The second reason that I object to legal marriage is a philosophical one. I don't think the government has any business defining what a legitimate intimate relationship is between consenting adults, nor should it regulate any such relationships. And I think it's inappropriate for the government to promote any one type of relationship among consenting adults above all others. I also find offensive the notion of having to get a legal license for a private, intimate relationship and registering that relationship with the government in the same way one gets a license to drive and registers their car.
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» RE: I Made a Conscious Choice to Remain Unmarried
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» RE: I Made a Conscious Choice to Remain Unmarried
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» That's Great if You're Fairly Attractive...
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» RE: That's Great if You're Fairly Attractive...
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Posted by: Bru on Feb 18, 2008 7:47 AM
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Posted by: billwald on Feb 18, 2008 8:22 AM
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The essay mentions but doesn't address long term effects of shack ups. It is easier to split the sheets when married.
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» RE: happiness-singleness-poverty-children
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 18, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Good stuff willymack........More posters...........
Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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Posted by: freshlemon on Feb 18, 2008 8:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those tax breaks for marriage and for children may be nice, but in essence they are totally unfair to anyone who is single or for married couples with no children. Taxes should be extra for having children. Maybe then people would think a little harder about having children.(Today the 'news' media is glorifying, via celebrities, having babies. Great message for young women!) A family of five uses a lot more of our tax resources than a single...doesn't it make sense that they should pay more?
I have been both single and married and definitely prefer the single status(pure selfishness!). Children might be a good reason for marriage, but they often end up being victims in an unbalanced,unhappy relationship between two adults.
Singles are not treated fairly by the tax system and are often thought of by society as 'having something wrong with them' if they choose to remain single. Truth is, they also have an American dream. It just isn't the same dream as those who have bought into the cookie cutter concept of people.
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Posted by: AlexCathy on Feb 18, 2008 8:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, I freely admit there is some discrimination against singles, particularly single women with children.
Nevertheless, the idea that singles are a poor persecuted group is about as ridiculous as the idea this culture persecutes Christians. Our popular culture endlessly glorifies and romanticizes the "swinging" single. It's an extension of the America's extreme individualism. You hardly ever see a happy, sexually active married couple in movies or television. Marriage is almost always depicted as a "trap." In "romantic" comedies, the characters have an interesting story as singles and then their lives end when they get married.
Ironically, one of the reasons why some singles are unhappy is because they don't understand why their own lives are not the American single ideal.
I was a single guy until I go married for the first time at age 41 and I would never go back to being single again.
The U.S. does not need another "victim" ideology. Nothing wrong with being single. Nothing wrong with being married either.
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» RE: Bias Against Singles? Baloney! The Culture Glorifies Singles, NO It's just the way it is.!
Posted by: flapdoodle
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Posted by: nfamous on Feb 18, 2008 8:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once the hormones die down, marriage becomes a prison for many people and not just men. That's why we see the rise in swinging amongst married couples. People genuinely love each other but just get bored with the same thing over and over again. You can tell people to spice it up to keep it new but few actually go out of their way after they've grown tired of the routine.
I'm single because I don't want to be smothered by someone all day long and have to do things that I normally wouldn't do as a single person. Married people call that selfish but I call it independent. I've never had sex with anyone I didn't care about. To me that's enough. We don't have to get married or even live together, although sometimes you do miss having someone there. Hey that's what pets are for.
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» This is my experience and attitude too
Posted by: rancespergl
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Feb 18, 2008 9:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without being a blamer, I have come to realize that I am not a person who should be married.
I'm 69 and still extremely active vocationally, athletically and socially.
I am far from being lonely in any way.
I have friends, business associates and neighbors with whom I socialize.
I date a few women with whom I like to golf, fish and do other things.
I see too many people who seem to be desperate in their loneliness and never seem to find that inner peace and self acceptance.
They spend their lives looking for "Mr/Ms Right", someone who doesn't actually exist.
One reason this is so is the obssessive perfectionism in others sought by these types of people.
As for children, I am fortunate to not have any that I know of.
My nextdoor neighbors have two daughters and, if I go on a trip, I'll pick up something for their kids.
I get along with most kids as, I'm still in my own terrible twos.
I don't succumb to those who want to get me "hooked up" with someone as, I am comfortable in my own skin/life and don't need anything which I don't already have.
Through experience, I have learned that there are no rewards for me in marriage.
I enjoy living my life and am happy allowing others to live theirs.
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Posted by: strahlungsamt on Feb 18, 2008 9:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my 20s, I was able to hitch hike around Europe and the USA, sleeping at the side of the road or in dingy squats. I drank and partied all the time, did everything except drugs. Was poor and unemployed many times (my own fault entirely) but at least I hurt nobody except myself.
In my 30s, I pulled my life together, gave up drinking and partying, went back to school and financed it by working in menial jobs. I lived in a rent-controlled apartment with other guys to save money.
Now I have a nice, well paying job as a computer programmer in a big firm. Right now, I'm shopping for a new apartment but I have everything else I could ever possibly want. And I'm still not married and have no plans to.
All the time I was young, whenever I would meet one of my "stable" married friends, they would lecture me to "find a good woman and settle down". Later, when I was doing menial jobs, all my female co-workers kept telling me to "finding a good woman". Guess what? I was still poor. The last thing I needed was someone to support, least of all kids, on less than $300/wk.
It seemed better to them to be married with kids in rags than to be single and lonely in a big mansion.
Now that I'm "rich", I get young model girls trying to get to know me. Guess what? I send them all away. Several of my married friends (who married young) are now living alone again, paying child support and struggling to make ends meet. Even the hottest model is not worth losing my freedom for.
Besides, people get married when they both have incomes, get a mortgage, have kids. Then one wage-earner stays home to mind the kids (or they hire a babysitter - just as expensive). Later on, the husband gets downsized and can't find another job, they lose the house etc. etc..
Not to mention, you can't discipline kids any more. If you deprive them of an iPod, you're a bad parent. If you lose your job through no fault of your own, you're a bad parent. If you DON'T send them to college you're a bad parent. If you let them out on the street unattended, you are exposing them to pedophiles. If they stay in and play videogames, they grow fat. The list goes on. And don't even mention drugs.
I never understood the rush to get married when a person's young. I never felt it myself. I preferred my freedom anyday. I sometimes thought that once I got older that would all change.
It didn't.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 18, 2008 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I didn't start dating until my late 20s. As for being single,
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 18, 2008 10:05 AM
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Posted by: abido0 on Feb 18, 2008 10:10 AM
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(Two of my single friends, sharing an apartment, had cut it out of a newspaper or magazine and taped it to their refrigerator door)
It went something like this:
-------
SMART?
HAPPY?
SUCCESSFUL?
HEALTHY?
Then why are you still SINGLE?
-------
One of my friends had circled the word "SINGLE", then drawn a big red arrow pointing all the way back up to the word "SMART".
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» RE: an advertisement I once saw
Posted by: Sunfell
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Posted by: maddy on Feb 18, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't help noticing how many folks in this message board see connections with other human beings as obligations or traps. I think that is sad indeed. Maybe the quality of all of our relationships would improve if we understood that we *are* interdependent and that being loved is a gift.
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Posted by: Andrew_S on Feb 18, 2008 10:39 AM
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Posted by: Sunfell on Feb 18, 2008 11:06 AM
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I did not. Things were changing, and the second-wave feminists said that kids like me would have better lives, and did NOT have to marry.
They were right, for the most part. When I was very young, marriage was necessary to permit a woman to live an economically viable life. Back then, one wage could support a family, but women were not permitted to have their own lines of credit or mortgages. Happily, that had changed by the time I started working in the early 80s. Today, this is no longer the norm, and single women can live as well, or even better than their married counterparts. Spouses are no longer economically necessary. I think that this has had an enormous impact on marriage today.
While many people prefer to be married, I am not one of them, and I count myself fortunate that I did not have to go through marriage and divorce to find this out.
I have a strong circle of friends, good support, good health, viable dreams, and the 'just me' time I need to make a positive impact in things I do.
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Feb 18, 2008 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been married twice. During my first 25 year marriage, I was mostly not just unhappy, but desparately unhappy. This was due to being manipulated, emotionally bullied, and psychologically abused much of the time.
My mother was unhappy in her marriage, but as the article states, she was not a well-adjusted person to begin with. Her view of her marriage to my father was clouded by her self-image, and it had an impact on me. I didn't realize how bad my marriage was because it seemed better than my parents'. This is probably why it took me so long to recognize how resentful and oppressed I felt all the time and to finally end it.
Obviously, I had some self-image problems myself or I would not have remained in a marriage that made me so unhappy for so long. It's probably true that I had many issues that might have made me unhappy as a single adult, but I never really had time to discover this, as I married young the first time. Many teenagers go through periods of angst, so it's hard to judge myself.
When I met my current husband 15 years ago, right at the end of my first marriage, I felt like I had encountered the other half of my soul. I still feel that way. But during the course of my divorce, I had discovered that I could be very, very happy by myself. In the five months between my separation and meeting my new mate, I became convinced that I would be quite satisfied to live alone, be single, and have a great time. I made the existential decision that my job was a way of supporting the rest of my life, I made new friends, renewed my interest in art, and found many activities I enjoyed.
By the time I met my husband, I was truly finding peace with myself in many ways. At the age of 60, I've been in my second marriage for 14 years. I could be single or I could be married, and I don't think it would make any difference now except that I am still so thrilled with my life with the most wonderful man I've ever known. I love him enough to recognize that he's not perfect and still find him to be a miracle in my life.
I don't think it's married or single that is important; it's a matter of liking yourself and, in the event of marriage or a long term relationship, finding the right person.
Marriage per se might not make you happy, but a bad marriage can make you miserable.
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Posted by: Solar Wind on Feb 18, 2008 12:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once, while on a business trip, I stayed at a very expensive and exclusive resort in California. I dressed for dinner and presented myself in front on the maitre'd; who proceeded to seat 3 other COUPLES as if I were totally invisible. I had to place myself squarely in front of his face and ask to be seated. "For one?" he loudly, snidely queried. Yes, for ONE I replied. He then led me through the entire dining room to an empty section and pulled out a chair. I looked at him and said "It doesn't bother me to eat alone, I want to be seated with the other guests." Of course, that was uncomfortable with the women in particular taking visible bites out of me with their eyes and the men assuming I was a pro. That was in the early 80s and it seems nothing has changed. When I see a single woman eating out my reaction is one of admiration; but I think society views us as a threat. To what I am not sure.
I was so naive it never occurred to me how single and loner-type people are viewed as odd, different, pathetic, lonely, gay, etc. etc. My favorite is, that whenever a serial/rampage killer is described he/she was always a "loner." I was never lonelier than when I was married. (BTW: I paid for my divorce and gave him everything.)
I am, and have been, for the larger part of my life happy - I have traveled the world, had an interesting and varied "career" albeit the discrimination mentioned in this article was present always. Being single for me, is a preference - and never being a "tribal-being" I managed to escape early on. I wish the same for all young single people who wish to remain so. A great book that I wish had been available when I was in my 20s/30s is "Party of One - The Loner's Manifesto."
Wishing all joy in their journey, be it single or coupled.
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» RE: Pushing 64
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Pushing 48
Posted by: deeannef
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Posted by: Doggycuny on Feb 18, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: NoKidding on Feb 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.truemomconfessions.com
www.truedadconfessions.com
www.truebrideconfessions.com
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» RE: True Confessions
Posted by: coachsappho
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Posted by: unity1 on Feb 18, 2008 1:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am free totally independent and have a lover - each of my friends brings a fullness into my life that one individual just could not cover
I am independent - have no one to answer to and have plenty of companionship, fun laughter being single for me is to be totally free and independent responsible whole being and I find people simply can't relate to it - they must find fault with it - simply because its out of step with the status quo so there must be something 'wrong' with me
but I say the status quo is out of step with me which is why there is something wrong with it
I have no doubts that some couples have full lives as well, but there are pressures they have that I simply do not have and have never had nor will I ever have
I love being single - most people are relationship junkies and could never be single for longer than 5 min - these people just don't know themselves without the reflection from the 'other' so seek relationships like a junkie seeks junk
viva le singlehood !!!!
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Posted by: grkjr on Feb 18, 2008 4:50 PM
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Posted by: fg on Feb 18, 2008 5:50 PM
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» RE: HERE IN NEW JERSEY
Posted by: ripley1423
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Posted by: fg on Feb 18, 2008 5:53 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Feb 18, 2008 6:19 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So no individual woman "needs" marriage. But keep more and more men alone and single, and the civilizing influence is gone.
If you want a society of increasing numbers of lone predatory males, with nothing to lose and nothing to protect, keep on keepin' on. The author gets away with her silly premise that "marriage" is not necessary by living under the protection of (overwhelmingly) married men.
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» RE: It is marriage that civilizes men...
Posted by: coachsappho
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Posted by: cindyn on Feb 18, 2008 6:24 PM
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The result is a fundamental change in the demographic nature of the United States, as illustrated by recent surveys.
The other question singles need to ask themselves is who is going to care for them when they're aged. With health care in the U.S. being stripped as it is, your only hope is to have children to care for you, as it was in the past.
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» RE: While Americans of European descent are staying single
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: data23 on Feb 18, 2008 7:02 PM
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» RE: wish I'd stayed single years ago...
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
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Posted by: cindyn on Feb 18, 2008 7:19 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Men don't have that much to gain in marriage.
Posted by: coachsappho
» RE: Men don't have that much to gain in marriage.
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: Men don't have that much to gain in marriage.
Posted by: John Wilbur
» I mostly agree with you John Wilbur...............but.......
Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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Posted by: Smiggsy on Feb 18, 2008 9:41 PM
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I however have never been treated indifferently in my lifetime. I consider this whole bias theory as just another example of the many stupid interpretations to the American christan social psyche. Get yourself some positive self-esteem people...
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Posted by: Daniel35 on Feb 18, 2008 9:54 PM
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» RE: Not perfect, but way ahead
Posted by: coachsappho
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Posted by: SkeeterVT1 on Feb 18, 2008 11:24 PM
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Why? I live out in the boondocks, where staying single is simply not an option, especially as you grow older. Nobody who lives out in the country wants to grow old alone, for the availability of other single people is far smaller out here than in the big city.
But regardless of whether you live in the city or in the country, there is one thing that makes staying single after age 50 untenable: M-O-N-E-Y. As you draw closer to retirement, your income begins to plateau while the cost of living never stops going up. Ultimately, it becomes economically infeasible to remain single.
Then there is the not-so-small matter of income taxes. The so-called "marriage penalty" is erased by the "singles penalty" after age 50. Single people over 50 get smaller income-tax refunds than their married peers (something I found out only this year when my wife and I filed our first joint return).
If they don't have kids, single people over 50 can't qualify for the earned-income tax credit. And needless to say, if you earn more than 50,000 a year and you're still single and childless, you could end up owing taxes at the end of the year --unless you claim zero exemptions on your W-4 form.
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» RE: Staying Single (or Not) Depends on Where You Live. . .
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: coachsappho on Feb 19, 2008 6:48 AM
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the point is: it depends on the individual. i do know that i've had friends who are landlords and, the reason they don't like renting to singles and/or 'shacked up' couples is that they seem to be less stable as tenants. they tend to be more 'transient', so my friends say and this makes their job more difficult. so, if that's true, i don't think it's discrimination it's just the vagaries of doing business!
also - as far as marriage - there does seem to be something about marriage that supposedly civilizes men. i know, that word is patronizing...what's a better word. it seems that many men seem to care more about themselves the children and their wives when they are married. it's probably two reasons: marriage and fatherhood gives them purpose/focus AND when married they are getting some good nurturing in return!
there's also some good indications that, from a financial standpoint, two hearts are better than one! i know, we could argue that all day and night, however, as a middle aged woman who had to end a 15 year relationship that wasn't enough about 'me' (and i take FULL responsibility for that), it's tough 'starting over' in one's 40's financially.....i think it benefits couples (and individuals) financially to get together and STAY together.
i'm curious how the doc handles her sexual life as a 'permanent single'.
i would love to have you on my podcast!
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Posted by: cindyn on Feb 19, 2008 3:39 PM
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Posted by: quigonjinn on Feb 21, 2008 7:15 AM
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For most of my life I was definitely miserable being single (probably would have rated myself 2 on her scale), now I really don't care anymore. And yes there are advantages in terms of independence and income (I work in IT and without wife/family I take in twice as much as I need for expenses), and it's also nice to get home from work and be able to enjoy the evening however I choose.
Over the years I've moved in and out of being alone and having a network of intimate friends (though never the "friends with benefits"/sexual thing) and I wouldn't wish to get married and then lose the social network (though I know married people who don't become an island unto themselves, so it's possible to avoid that.)
Though I'm not just a marriage outsider to this society but also a sexual outsider, which brings a different perspective. Like sex is such an overrated experience and Hollywood tends to make it look better than it actually is. Also it annoys me that sex is used to sell everything on TV (most commercials have an overt message, and a hidden message which is something like "Buy this product and this hot babe will have sex with you and/or you will get better sex" when they might be selling cars or toilet paper.) I don't think it's really possible to regulate such shameless advertising but it sure is rather unpalatable.
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Posted by: boundjymind on Feb 21, 2008 5:37 PM
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Posted by: Thetorganization on Feb 18, 2008 12:41 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although this article comes off very well and good, not everyone has a burning desire to be alone for the rest of their lives.
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» we're NOT alone
Posted by: deborama
» RE: we're NOT alone
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: we're NOT alone *PERFECT EXAMPLE OF SINGLETON DISCRIMINATION HERE**
Posted by: maribelle
» Whoa there!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Whoa there! **TO HAGWIND**
Posted by: maribelle
» oh yea?
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Whoa there! **TO HAGWIND**
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: let's clarify, maribelle
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: donl51
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: goeswithness
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: It's not that there's anything wrong with being single....
Posted by: marilee
» Sucks for you, maybe...
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» Some people just don't believe in love anymore
Posted by: timemachinist
» RE: Some people just don't believe in love anymore - there are good women out there
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Stop being such a sentimentalist timemachinist
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» RE: Stop being such a sentimentalist timemachinist
Posted by: abbadon2007
» In defense of love
Posted by: timemachinist
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Posted by: aberdeen on Feb 18, 2008 12:52 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, many family situations are not ideal but overall, consider the travesty for children in children if there were no family at all. It is both interesting and telling, that many so-called modern "thinkers", such as this author, make no mention of children's happiness, well-being or emotional security, in their haste to afford adults whatever pleasure suits our fancy and let the chips fall where they may.
When one talks about the joys of sex inside and outside of marriage, one needs to consider the ultimate societal consequences, as well as the immediate physical pleasure. That is, if one gives a damn about our children, which apparently such thought has never crossed this author's myopic mind.
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» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: aberdeen
» Selfish is selfish.
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Selfish is selfish.
Posted by: NoKidding
» Sometimes, having children is the selfish thing
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: Sometimes, having children is the selfish thing
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Sometimes, having children is the selfish thing
Posted by: aberdeen
» You're the One Who Mentioned Children in Your Original Post
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: You're the One Who Mentioned Children in Your Original Post
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: chrysalis124812
» RE: Can see your point,somewhat!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: goeswithness
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: marilee
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: aberdeen
» What about the Chinese Children?
Posted by: messedup
» RE: What about the Chinese Children?
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: kabac55
» RE: New Testament is anti-family
Posted by: Jasonix
» Community...
Posted by: buffeliscious
» RE: New Testament is anti-family
Posted by: aberdeen
» RE: New Testament is anti-family
Posted by: aberdeen
» RE: What about Children? CHILDREN ARE NOT COMPULSORY
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: What about Children? CHILDREN ARE NOT COMPULSORY
Posted by: aberdeen
» RE: What about Children? CHILDREN ARE NOT COMPULSORY
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: aberdeen
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: aberdeen
» 15,000 children a year are adopted from US foster care by single parents
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: What about Children?
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: sabrinamorgan on Feb 18, 2008 1:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which makes sense - long-term relationships, let alone marriage, are hell on pessimists, whereas it's easier to attract good relationship material when you display a positive outlook (at least, judging from some of the interestingly damaged people I attracted in my Goth days...).
It also makes sense that those who are happy when single will be happy when (or if) married.
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» RE: It's not so much that marriage is causing happiness...
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: It's not so much that marriage is causing happiness...
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
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Posted by: RobNLA on Feb 18, 2008 1:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like this article says: if you were miserable as a single, marriage won't fix that...you'll just make your spouse miserable too. And if you are a happy person single, then if you get married wisely, you'll likely end up still happy.
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Posted by: socialpsych on Feb 18, 2008 4:16 AM
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Posted by: raymondg on Feb 18, 2008 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, we cannot discount that people are likely to rate themselves happier than they actually feel; this is especially true if they feel there is not much they can do about their current situation.
As someone who has been single for most of his adult life, I know there are periods when I want to do cartwheels because I don't have the attachments that come with a committed relationship. Then, there are those periods when I want to slit my wrists precisely for the same reasons. We live in a society that is obsessed with people "hooking up," so much so that to be single is in some ways an act of rebellion. But, rebellion can be liberating and exhausting all at once.
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Posted by: hagwind on Feb 18, 2008 4:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It says in Coronet Magazine,
June nineteen fifty-six, page ten,
That married women are not as happy
As women who have no men.
Married women are cranky,
Frustrated and disgusted,
While single women are bright and gay,
Creative and well adjusted.
Full lyrics here. When Malvina wrote the song, "gay" didn't have quite the double meaning that it does today, but hey, it works for me. ;-)
Maybe the situation has changed, but well into the 1970s most studies I saw suggested that single women were happier than married women, and married men were happier than single men. I figure this has something to do with the fondness that patriarchal religions have for the institution of marriage.
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» I think MEN are happier being married...
Posted by: olderworker
» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
Posted by: astudent
» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: I think MEN are happier being married...
Posted by: blue70rose
» To each their own
Posted by: sanddollar
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 18, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the old maid thing, how many cool single aunts are out there? I've met a few. And they seem happier and less stressed than the rest of us, don't they?...They take your kids to the zoo when you can't stand another minute of them. They're your daughter's buddy when she broke up with her boyfriend. They'll listen to your troubles when your parents don't understand you, which is most of the time. What would we do without them?
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» RE: Save the Cool Aunts
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Save the Cool Aunts
Posted by: seenaymah
» RE: Save the Cool Aunts
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Save the Cool Aunts
Posted by: lianne
» RE: Save the Cool Aunts
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: donl51 on Feb 18, 2008 5:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What's wrong with staying single?
Posted by: vitajay85
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Feb 18, 2008 5:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does single life suck? It can if you let it. But considering what I did this weekend I can truly say it does not. I hung out and shared meals with friends and had really in depth conversations as well as an amazing day of skiing. Obviously not every weekend is like this, but I did not have to answer to anyones needs or desires. Certainly I would love to have shared it with that special someone. She will come along when the time is right.Until that point I am grateful for the time I can enjoy with my self and my incredible friends.
I am all for marriage and kids etc because I think that raising children properly is the most important thing we can do as humans. Sharing time with others in a healthy relationship is about the most special thing that we do. But in order to be able to have that magic in your life it is highly important to enjoy your single life to the fullest first.
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» RE: It is
Posted by: cyclopsina
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Posted by: zeofredo on Feb 18, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we look at our usual lifestyles in the West, we find that the nuclear family model: the couple-- plus kids-- is the only 'accepted' way to be. There are few instances of multi-generation households now... spouses rarely get to spend long periods of time away from their families (not including business trips for the executive elite), and large networks of friends are short-lived at best, usually terminating in one's late-20's.
Because of this, we actually have a pretty constricted arrangement that places a lot of emotional burden and social comfort exclusively on one's partner. It's a lot of work to have a happy home life... my married friends tell me all the time about 'give and take... mostly give!', and I hear laments about how old friendships have died out and the family seems to occupy all the time left over from an already-considerable work week.
For me, happiness ought to be sourced out from many directions (no, I'm NOT a promiscuous SOB!), and community and friends celebrated just as much as the personal love relationship is.
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Posted by: craigandrew on Feb 18, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coincidentally, I had blogged on such things more elaborately last week: An Inverted Beehive Part One and Part Two.
Have fun,
A happily single person.
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» Back in the day...
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Libertine on Feb 18, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barring one brief, misadvised marriage in my early 20s, I've been legally single most of my adult life. I have made a conscious choice to remain so for two major reasons.
First and most relevant in my situation, I'm a decidedly non-monogamous heterosexual and I have no desire to be anything different. I prefer having several friends with benefits and the freedom to have occasional one-night stands, rather than limiting myself to one woman. I greatly value my freedom and the privacy that comes from living alone and not living in a 24/7 domestic situation with any one woman -- I like to come and go as I please.
To me, being married is "mating in captivity" and I know that I would be miserable trying to limit myself to one woman -- and would no doubt be unable to do so for any extended period of time.
But because I'm honest, I decided to remain legally single and stay true to my own nature, rather than trying to force myself into the ill-fitting niche of marriage as it is currently defined, and inevitably becoming a "cheater".
The second reason that I object to legal marriage is a philosophical one. I don't think the government has any business defining what a legitimate intimate relationship is between consenting adults, nor should it regulate any such relationships. And I think it's inappropriate for the government to promote any one type of relationship among consenting adults above all others. I also find offensive the notion of having to get a legal license for a private, intimate relationship and registering that relationship with the government in the same way one gets a license to drive and registers their car.
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» RE: I Made a Conscious Choice to Remain Unmarried
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: I Made a Conscious Choice to Remain Unmarried
Posted by: karyse
» That's Great if You're Fairly Attractive...
Posted by: truthteller
» RE: That's Great if You're Fairly Attractive...
Posted by: tnrider
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Posted by: Bru on Feb 18, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: billwald on Feb 18, 2008 8:22 AM
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The essay mentions but doesn't address long term effects of shack ups. It is easier to split the sheets when married.
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» RE: happiness-singleness-poverty-children
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 18, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Good stuff willymack........More posters...........
Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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Posted by: freshlemon on Feb 18, 2008 8:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those tax breaks for marriage and for children may be nice, but in essence they are totally unfair to anyone who is single or for married couples with no children. Taxes should be extra for having children. Maybe then people would think a little harder about having children.(Today the 'news' media is glorifying, via celebrities, having babies. Great message for young women!) A family of five uses a lot more of our tax resources than a single...doesn't it make sense that they should pay more?
I have been both single and married and definitely prefer the single status(pure selfishness!). Children might be a good reason for marriage, but they often end up being victims in an unbalanced,unhappy relationship between two adults.
Singles are not treated fairly by the tax system and are often thought of by society as 'having something wrong with them' if they choose to remain single. Truth is, they also have an American dream. It just isn't the same dream as those who have bought into the cookie cutter concept of people.
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Posted by: AlexCathy on Feb 18, 2008 8:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, I freely admit there is some discrimination against singles, particularly single women with children.
Nevertheless, the idea that singles are a poor persecuted group is about as ridiculous as the idea this culture persecutes Christians. Our popular culture endlessly glorifies and romanticizes the "swinging" single. It's an extension of the America's extreme individualism. You hardly ever see a happy, sexually active married couple in movies or television. Marriage is almost always depicted as a "trap." In "romantic" comedies, the characters have an interesting story as singles and then their lives end when they get married.
Ironically, one of the reasons why some singles are unhappy is because they don't understand why their own lives are not the American single ideal.
I was a single guy until I go married for the first time at age 41 and I would never go back to being single again.
The U.S. does not need another "victim" ideology. Nothing wrong with being single. Nothing wrong with being married either.
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» RE: Bias Against Singles? Baloney! The Culture Glorifies Singles, NO It's just the way it is.!
Posted by: flapdoodle
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Posted by: nfamous on Feb 18, 2008 8:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once the hormones die down, marriage becomes a prison for many people and not just men. That's why we see the rise in swinging amongst married couples. People genuinely love each other but just get bored with the same thing over and over again. You can tell people to spice it up to keep it new but few actually go out of their way after they've grown tired of the routine.
I'm single because I don't want to be smothered by someone all day long and have to do things that I normally wouldn't do as a single person. Married people call that selfish but I call it independent. I've never had sex with anyone I didn't care about. To me that's enough. We don't have to get married or even live together, although sometimes you do miss having someone there. Hey that's what pets are for.
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» This is my experience and attitude too
Posted by: rancespergl
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Feb 18, 2008 9:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without being a blamer, I have come to realize that I am not a person who should be married.
I'm 69 and still extremely active vocationally, athletically and socially.
I am far from being lonely in any way.
I have friends, business associates and neighbors with whom I socialize.
I date a few women with whom I like to golf, fish and do other things.
I see too many people who seem to be desperate in their loneliness and never seem to find that inner peace and self acceptance.
They spend their lives looking for "Mr/Ms Right", someone who doesn't actually exist.
One reason this is so is the obssessive perfectionism in others sought by these types of people.
As for children, I am fortunate to not have any that I know of.
My nextdoor neighbors have two daughters and, if I go on a trip, I'll pick up something for their kids.
I get along with most kids as, I'm still in my own terrible twos.
I don't succumb to those who want to get me "hooked up" with someone as, I am comfortable in my own skin/life and don't need anything which I don't already have.
Through experience, I have learned that there are no rewards for me in marriage.
I enjoy living my life and am happy allowing others to live theirs.
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Posted by: strahlungsamt on Feb 18, 2008 9:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my 20s, I was able to hitch hike around Europe and the USA, sleeping at the side of the road or in dingy squats. I drank and partied all the time, did everything except drugs. Was poor and unemployed many times (my own fault entirely) but at least I hurt nobody except myself.
In my 30s, I pulled my life together, gave up drinking and partying, went back to school and financed it by working in menial jobs. I lived in a rent-controlled apartment with other guys to save money.
Now I have a nice, well paying job as a computer programmer in a big firm. Right now, I'm shopping for a new apartment but I have everything else I could ever possibly want. And I'm still not married and have no plans to.
All the time I was young, whenever I would meet one of my "stable" married friends, they would lecture me to "find a good woman and settle down". Later, when I was doing menial jobs, all my female co-workers kept telling me to "finding a good woman". Guess what? I was still poor. The last thing I needed was someone to support, least of all kids, on less than $300/wk.
It seemed better to them to be married with kids in rags than to be single and lonely in a big mansion.
Now that I'm "rich", I get young model girls trying to get to know me. Guess what? I send them all away. Several of my married friends (who married young) are now living alone again, paying child support and struggling to make ends meet. Even the hottest model is not worth losing my freedom for.
Besides, people get married when they both have incomes, get a mortgage, have kids. Then one wage-earner stays home to mind the kids (or they hire a babysitter - just as expensive). Later on, the husband gets downsized and can't find another job, they lose the house etc. etc..
Not to mention, you can't discipline kids any more. If you deprive them of an iPod, you're a bad parent. If you lose your job through no fault of your own, you're a bad parent. If you DON'T send them to college you're a bad parent. If you let them out on the street unattended, you are exposing them to pedophiles. If they stay in and play videogames, they grow fat. The list goes on. And don't even mention drugs.
I never understood the rush to get married when a person's young. I never felt it myself. I preferred my freedom anyday. I sometimes thought that once I got older that would all change.
It didn't.
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» RE: My $.02
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: My $.02
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: My $.02
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 18, 2008 9:31 AM
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» RE: I didn't start dating until my late 20s. As for being single,
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 18, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: abido0 on Feb 18, 2008 10:10 AM
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(Two of my single friends, sharing an apartment, had cut it out of a newspaper or magazine and taped it to their refrigerator door)
It went something like this:
-------
SMART?
HAPPY?
SUCCESSFUL?
HEALTHY?
Then why are you still SINGLE?
-------
One of my friends had circled the word "SINGLE", then drawn a big red arrow pointing all the way back up to the word "SMART".
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» RE: an advertisement I once saw
Posted by: Sunfell
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Posted by: maddy on Feb 18, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't help noticing how many folks in this message board see connections with other human beings as obligations or traps. I think that is sad indeed. Maybe the quality of all of our relationships would improve if we understood that we *are* interdependent and that being loved is a gift.
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Posted by: Andrew_S on Feb 18, 2008 10:39 AM
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Posted by: Sunfell on Feb 18, 2008 11:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not. Things were changing, and the second-wave feminists said that kids like me would have better lives, and did NOT have to marry.
They were right, for the most part. When I was very young, marriage was necessary to permit a woman to live an economically viable life. Back then, one wage could support a family, but women were not permitted to have their own lines of credit or mortgages. Happily, that had changed by the time I started working in the early 80s. Today, this is no longer the norm, and single women can live as well, or even better than their married counterparts. Spouses are no longer economically necessary. I think that this has had an enormous impact on marriage today.
While many people prefer to be married, I am not one of them, and I count myself fortunate that I did not have to go through marriage and divorce to find this out.
I have a strong circle of friends, good support, good health, viable dreams, and the 'just me' time I need to make a positive impact in things I do.
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Feb 18, 2008 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been married twice. During my first 25 year marriage, I was mostly not just unhappy, but desparately unhappy. This was due to being manipulated, emotionally bullied, and psychologically abused much of the time.
My mother was unhappy in her marriage, but as the article states, she was not a well-adjusted person to begin with. Her view of her marriage to my father was clouded by her self-image, and it had an impact on me. I didn't realize how bad my marriage was because it seemed better than my parents'. This is probably why it took me so long to recognize how resentful and oppressed I felt all the time and to finally end it.
Obviously, I had some self-image problems myself or I would not have remained in a marriage that made me so unhappy for so long. It's probably true that I had many issues that might have made me unhappy as a single adult, but I never really had time to discover this, as I married young the first time. Many teenagers go through periods of angst, so it's hard to judge myself.
When I met my current husband 15 years ago, right at the end of my first marriage, I felt like I had encountered the other half of my soul. I still feel that way. But during the course of my divorce, I had discovered that I could be very, very happy by myself. In the five months between my separation and meeting my new mate, I became convinced that I would be quite satisfied to live alone, be single, and have a great time. I made the existential decision that my job was a way of supporting the rest of my life, I made new friends, renewed my interest in art, and found many activities I enjoyed.
By the time I met my husband, I was truly finding peace with myself in many ways. At the age of 60, I've been in my second marriage for 14 years. I could be single or I could be married, and I don't think it would make any difference now except that I am still so thrilled with my life with the most wonderful man I've ever known. I love him enough to recognize that he's not perfect and still find him to be a miracle in my life.
I don't think it's married or single that is important; it's a matter of liking yourself and, in the event of marriage or a long term relationship, finding the right person.
Marriage per se might not make you happy, but a bad marriage can make you miserable.
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Posted by: Solar Wind on Feb 18, 2008 12:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once, while on a business trip, I stayed at a very expensive and exclusive resort in California. I dressed for dinner and presented myself in front on the maitre'd; who proceeded to seat 3 other COUPLES as if I were totally invisible. I had to place myself squarely in front of his face and ask to be seated. "For one?" he loudly, snidely queried. Yes, for ONE I replied. He then led me through the entire dining room to an empty section and pulled out a chair. I looked at him and said "It doesn't bother me to eat alone, I want to be seated with the other guests." Of course, that was uncomfortable with the women in particular taking visible bites out of me with their eyes and the men assuming I was a pro. That was in the early 80s and it seems nothing has changed. When I see a single woman eating out my reaction is one of admiration; but I think society views us as a threat. To what I am not sure.
I was so naive it never occurred to me how single and loner-type people are viewed as odd, different, pathetic, lonely, gay, etc. etc. My favorite is, that whenever a serial/rampage killer is described he/she was always a "loner." I was never lonelier than when I was married. (BTW: I paid for my divorce and gave him everything.)
I am, and have been, for the larger part of my life happy - I have traveled the world, had an interesting and varied "career" albeit the discrimination mentioned in this article was present always. Being single for me, is a preference - and never being a "tribal-being" I managed to escape early on. I wish the same for all young single people who wish to remain so. A great book that I wish had been available when I was in my 20s/30s is "Party of One - The Loner's Manifesto."
Wishing all joy in their journey, be it single or coupled.
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» RE: Pushing 64
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Pushing 48
Posted by: deeannef
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Posted by: Doggycuny on Feb 18, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: NoKidding on Feb 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.truemomconfessions.com
www.truedadconfessions.com
www.truebrideconfessions.com
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» RE: True Confessions
Posted by: coachsappho
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Posted by: unity1 on Feb 18, 2008 1:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am free totally independent and have a lover - each of my friends brings a fullness into my life that one individual just could not cover
I am independent - have no one to answer to and have plenty of companionship, fun laughter being single for me is to be totally free and independent responsible whole being and I find people simply can't relate to it - they must find fault with it - simply because its out of step with the status quo so there must be something 'wrong' with me
but I say the status quo is out of step with me which is why there is something wrong with it
I have no doubts that some couples have full lives as well, but there are pressures they have that I simply do not have and have never had nor will I ever have
I love being single - most people are relationship junkies and could never be single for longer than 5 min - these people just don't know themselves without the reflection from the 'other' so seek relationships like a junkie seeks junk
viva le singlehood !!!!
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Posted by: grkjr on Feb 18, 2008 4:50 PM
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Posted by: fg on Feb 18, 2008 5:50 PM
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» RE: HERE IN NEW JERSEY
Posted by: ripley1423
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Posted by: fg on Feb 18, 2008 5:53 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Feb 18, 2008 6:19 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So no individual woman "needs" marriage. But keep more and more men alone and single, and the civilizing influence is gone.
If you want a society of increasing numbers of lone predatory males, with nothing to lose and nothing to protect, keep on keepin' on. The author gets away with her silly premise that "marriage" is not necessary by living under the protection of (overwhelmingly) married men.
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» RE: It is marriage that civilizes men...
Posted by: coachsappho
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Posted by: cindyn on Feb 18, 2008 6:24 PM
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The result is a fundamental change in the demographic nature of the United States, as illustrated by recent surveys.
The other question singles need to ask themselves is who is going to care for them when they're aged. With health care in the U.S. being stripped as it is, your only hope is to have children to care for you, as it was in the past.
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» RE: While Americans of European descent are staying single
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: data23 on Feb 18, 2008 7:02 PM
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» RE: wish I'd stayed single years ago...
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
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Posted by: cindyn on Feb 18, 2008 7:19 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Men don't have that much to gain in marriage.
Posted by: coachsappho
» RE: Men don't have that much to gain in marriage.
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: Men don't have that much to gain in marriage.
Posted by: John Wilbur
» I mostly agree with you John Wilbur...............but.......
Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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Posted by: Smiggsy on Feb 18, 2008 9:41 PM
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I however have never been treated indifferently in my lifetime. I consider this whole bias theory as just another example of the many stupid interpretations to the American christan social psyche. Get yourself some positive self-esteem people...
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Posted by: Daniel35 on Feb 18, 2008 9:54 PM
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» RE: Not perfect, but way ahead
Posted by: coachsappho
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Posted by: SkeeterVT1 on Feb 18, 2008 11:24 PM
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Why? I live out in the boondocks, where staying single is simply not an option, especially as you grow older. Nobody who lives out in the country wants to grow old alone, for the availability of other single people is far smaller out here than in the big city.
But regardless of whether you live in the city or in the country, there is one thing that makes staying single after age 50 untenable: M-O-N-E-Y. As you draw closer to retirement, your income begins to plateau while the cost of living never stops going up. Ultimately, it becomes economically infeasible to remain single.
Then there is the not-so-small matter of income taxes. The so-called "marriage penalty" is erased by the "singles penalty" after age 50. Single people over 50 get smaller income-tax refunds than their married peers (something I found out only this year when my wife and I filed our first joint return).
If they don't have kids, single people over 50 can't qualify for the earned-income tax credit. And needless to say, if you earn more than 50,000 a year and you're still single and childless, you could end up owing taxes at the end of the year --unless you claim zero exemptions on your W-4 form.
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» RE: Staying Single (or Not) Depends on Where You Live. . .
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: coachsappho on Feb 19, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the point is: it depends on the individual. i do know that i've had friends who are landlords and, the reason they don't like renting to singles and/or 'shacked up' couples is that they seem to be less stable as tenants. they tend to be more 'transient', so my friends say and this makes their job more difficult. so, if that's true, i don't think it's discrimination it's just the vagaries of doing business!
also - as far as marriage - there does seem to be something about marriage that supposedly civilizes men. i know, that word is patronizing...what's a better word. it seems that many men seem to care more about themselves the children and their wives when they are married. it's probably two reasons: marriage and fatherhood gives them purpose/focus AND when married they are getting some good nurturing in return!
there's also some good indications that, from a financial standpoint, two hearts are better than one! i know, we could argue that all day and night, however, as a middle aged woman who had to end a 15 year relationship that wasn't enough about 'me' (and i take FULL responsibility for that), it's tough 'starting over' in one's 40's financially.....i think it benefits couples (and individuals) financially to get together and STAY together.
i'm curious how the doc handles her sexual life as a 'permanent single'.
i would love to have you on my podcast!
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Posted by: cindyn on Feb 19, 2008 3:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: quigonjinn on Feb 21, 2008 7:15 AM
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For most of my life I was definitely miserable being single (probably would have rated myself 2 on her scale), now I really don't care anymore. And yes there are advantages in terms of independence and income (I work in IT and without wife/family I take in twice as much as I need for expenses), and it's also nice to get home from work and be able to enjoy the evening however I choose.
Over the years I've moved in and out of being alone and having a network of intimate friends (though never the "friends with benefits"/sexual thing) and I wouldn't wish to get married and then lose the social network (though I know married people who don't become an island unto themselves, so it's possible to avoid that.)
Though I'm not just a marriage outsider to this society but also a sexual outsider, which brings a different perspective. Like sex is such an overrated experience and Hollywood tends to make it look better than it actually is. Also it annoys me that sex is used to sell everything on TV (most commercials have an overt message, and a hidden message which is something like "Buy this product and this hot babe will have sex with you and/or you will get better sex" when they might be selling cars or toilet paper.) I don't think it's really possible to regulate such shameless advertising but it sure is rather unpalatable.
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Posted by: boundjymind on Feb 21, 2008 5:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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'Reality' Show Lets You Decide If Women Get Abortions?
Sex Addiction: A B.S. Excuse for Not Thinking
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