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Sex and Relationships

Modern Marriage Habits Put Family Structures in Catch-Up Mode

By Stephanie Coontz, Greater Good. Posted October 22, 2007.


Marriage has changed more in the last 30 years than in the previous 3,000, with major economic and social consequences for how families work.
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For millennia, marriage decisions were dictated more by economic and political considerations than by love and personal satisfaction. This made marriage a very coercive institution, especially for young people and for women in general. Today, by contrast, people have unprecedented freedom about whether, when, and whom to marry, as well as about how to organize their personal relationships in and out of marriage. Marriages are no longer based on the legal subordination of women and children, and many women have even attained economic equality with their partners.

But like all democratic revolutions, the transformation of marriage and family life has been messy. More choices mean new opportunities for success, but also new opportunities for failures, and new temptations to reach beyond one's grasp. We have solved many old problems, but in the process created some new ones.

For example, on average, parents invest more emotional energy and financial resources in their children than ever before, but children whose parents cannot or will not make such investments face new vulnerabilities. Young people have greater mobility and personal freedom than in the past, but their independence can turn into isolation after they become parents.

Similarly, the things that have made marriage more fulfilling have made it more brittle. Because couples expect so much more love, intimacy, and mutuality from marriage, they work harder to live up to their ideals but when marriage doesn't meet their high expectations, they can be quick to divorce.

Family history is full of examples of such trade-offs: For thousands of years, the flip side of a strong institution of marriage was the equally strong and tremendously unjust institution of illegitimacy, which allowed families to turn their backs on any children born to a relationship not sanctioned by one's parents and community.

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of such babies were abandoned, often to death, over the centuries. Abolishing harsh penalties for illegitimacy was a world -- historic gain. But it also allowed some men to refuse marriage if a partner became pregnant because having their child out of wedlock no longer carried such severe consequences. At the same time, many young women have underestimated how hard it is to raise a child without the support of a partner.

We need to address the new challenges raised by the transformation and diversification of marriage and family life. But we cannot do so if we delude ourselves into thinking there has ever been a Golden Age when life was much better for all, or even most, families. Instead, we must build on the very real gains we've made while recognizing the new dilemmas we face dilemmas that require policy solutions as well as individual effort.

Real traditional marriage

Sometimes people romanticize marriages of the past. In fact, the personal relationship between husband and wife did not count for much in traditional marriage. Instead, the economic and political interests of the couple's parents or community were paramount. In the upper classes, people married to acquire influential in -- laws, forge business deals, or even conclude peace treaties. In the middle classes, men looked for wives who would bring a handsome dowry at marriage. Women married for social respectability and future financial security. Farmers and artisans could not survive without a "yoke mate," so a strong arm and good work ethic outweighed more sentimental considerations.

Under these circumstances, it was considered irresponsible to let young people freely choose their own mates on such a self-indulgent basis as love. And once married, couples were not expected to construct a relationship that fostered mutual cooperation, but to conform to a rigid marital model based on male dominance and wifely subordination. "Husband and wife are one," said traditional English common law, "and that one is the husband."

It was only 200 years ago that Western Europeans and Americans began to believe that young people had the right to choose their own mates, and that they should do so on the basis of love and mutual attraction. It was only 150 years ago that laws began to give wives equal property rights over money they inherited or earned, and just 120 years ago that courts ruled that a husband had no right to physically "correct" or imprison his wife. Adultery, once accepted as normal for husbands, became less acceptable. Wife-beating was increasingly condemned, although it was seldom treated as a serious offense until after the second wave of feminism in the 1970s.

But well into the 20th century, couples did not have to work hard at negotiating their relationships because law and social custom required wives to give in to their husbands' wishes. In the 1950s, marital advice books invariably told women to play dumb, act helpless, and let their husband be "the boss."

As late as the 1970s, many states had "head and master" laws that gave husbands the final say over such decisions as what should be done with community property, where the couple should live, and whether the wife could take a job. Marital rape was seen as a contradiction in terms, because it was considered a wife's duty to have sex whenever her husband wanted it. And women's economic dependence remained so pervasive that most women had to marry as much for practicality as for love, and had little option to leave an unfair, unsatisfactory marriage.

A new family landscape

All this changed with the economic and political reforms and the civil rights climate of the 1960s and 1970s. The new independence of women and the new personal freedoms of youth enabled men and women to form healthier relationships and build more successful lives as singles. These changes also enabled same-sex couples to come out of the closet. But in the 1970s and 1980s, we saw a lot of turmoil as people struggled to adapt to these changes, especially as they dealt with a sharp economic downturn after 1973.

In the 1990s, family indicators improved. Today divorce rates are down from their peak in the 1970s, especially for college-educated couples. Teen births are at new lows. As of 2000 -- although there have been setbacks since then -- juvenile crime was lower than at any time since 1966. And the pace of family change has slowed, suggesting that predictions of the death of marriage were overwrought.

But we must recognize that alternatives to marriage are here to stay. Women's economic independence combined with the expansion of consumer products that reduce the need for a full -- time housewife, and the decline in society's coercive power over personal life-means divorce will not disappear.

The rising age of marriage is a promising sign for many marriages since it is associated with greater family stability, but it also means that women have a longer period of life in which they can end up as unwed mothers, either by choice or by chance. The majority of Americans, same -- sex or opposite-sex, live together outside of marriage for a portion of their lives, and not all these relationships result in marriage. We may be able to create more healthy marriages in the future, but we can never again assume that all dependents, young or old, will be taken care of within first-marriage nuclear families.

Even married-couple families face new challenges. The majority of mothers of children over age one are in the workforce, and contrary to periodic claims that mothers are "opting out," several studies show that women are much less likely to leave the labor force to stay home with their kids than in the past. The male-breadwinner family is no longer the norm.

In this context, many of our problems arise not because we've changed too much but because we haven't changed enough. One big cause of marital stress and divorce is the failure of some men to change their household roles enough to match the change in women's work roles. Another cause, researchers are finding, is that couples tend to fall into traditional gender roles after the birth of a child, which can produce resentment in both parents. And one of the main dangers to children after a divorce is the old-fashioned notion of many men that their obligations to their kids end when they no longer enjoy the services and support of the children's mother.

Initiatives for change

This failure to change enough is not simply an individual problem but a deeply institutional problem as well. Indeed, as individuals, many Americans are adapting remarkably to the changes in marriage and family life. After some initial resistance, most men have begun to share housework and childcare with their partners far more equitably.

For example, the Families and Work Institute found that Generation X dads spend an average of 3.4 hours per workday with their children -- a significant increase over the average of 2.2 hours that Baby Boomer fathers spent with their kids. Today, 49 percent of couples say they share child care equally, compared with 25 percent in 1985. Men's greater involvement at home is good for their relationships with their spouses, and also good for their children. Fathers who are more involved with their families raise sons who are more expressive and empathic and daughters who are more likely to do well in school especially in math and science.

Meanwhile, working moms have increased the time they spend with their children even as they have increased their hours on the job. According to a recent study by Suzanne Bianchi, John Robinson, and Melissa Milkie, both mothers and fathers spend more time interacting with their children today than they did in 1965, at the height of the male-breadwinner/female-homemaker family. Single mothers have less time to spend with their families than married mothers, but they too have significantly increased their time with children.

Even childless and unmarried individuals are doing immense amounts of family work, with one in four American workers spending seven hours or more each week caring for an aging parent. In fact, Naomi Gerstel of the University of Massachusetts and Natalia Sarkisian of Boston College find that childless single individuals give more time and practical support to parents, kin, and friends than married couples do.

The right question today is not, "How can we shoehorn everybody into a single perfect family form?" Instead, it is, "How can we help every type of family whether living in the same household or not-minimize its particular weaknesses and build upon its potential strengths?" And this is where our social institutions and political leaders need to step up to the plate. Three initiatives seem especially important.

The first is to reverse the trend toward widening income inequality, which makes it more difficult for poor families to enter and sustain marriages, and more difficult for single parents to raise their children in ways that can break the cycle of poverty and relationship instability. Possibilities here include increasing the minimum wage, which has fallen to its lowest inflation-adjusted level in two decades; investing in job creation programs; improving the resources of schools in our poor communities; and expanding the Earned Income Tax credit.

Another imperative is to develop family-friendly work policies that are not just reserved for highly paid, highly skilled workers but are guaranteed to all workers through federal regulation. Of the 20 richest nations in the world, all but the United States and Australia offer subsidized maternity or parental leave. In Australia, workers are entitled to a year off, though it is without pay.

Here, by contrast, the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) offers workers who qualify (only about half the workforce) a measly six weeks without pay. Researchers Jody Heymann, Alison Earle, and Jeffrey Hayes of McGill and Harvard Universities report that 107 other countries in the world protect working women's right to breastfeed on the job; 137 countries mandate paid annual leave, with 121 of these countries guaranteeing two weeks or more each year; 134 have laws that fix the maximum length of the work week; 49 guarantee leave for major family events, such as marriages or funerals; and 145 countries provide paid leave for short- or long-term illnesses. The U.S. does not offer any of these guarantees.

Reprinted from Greater Good, Vol. IV, Issue 2 (Fall 2007), pp. 12-15. For more information, please visit Greater Good.

Researcher Janet Gornick of Baruch College at the City University of New York notes that public policy in most of Europe ensures the affordability and availability of early childhood education and child care. In Belgium, France, and Italy, nearly all children are enrolled in full-day, quality preschools from the age of three until they begin primary school. The Scandinavian countries offer a combination of paid parental leave and publicly financed child care for toddlers. In the U.S., by contrast, only one of every seven children eligible for a public child-care subsidy actually receives it. Our child care is unregulated, unevenly available, and underfunded. That needs to change.

Finally, we need to stop acting as if heterosexual marriage is the only place where people incur long-term obligations. Single parents, cohabiting couples, gay and lesbian families, and divorced parents are now a permanent part of the picture. They, too, need support systems to help them meet their responsibilities in healthy ways, along with clear-cut rules to prevent abuse or blatant unfairness when relationships end. Divorced and unwed parents, for example, need constructive advice on effective parenting. Young people need tested programs to help them develop the resistance skills to say no to pressured sex and the coping skills to handle their sex lives responsibly once they begin consensual relationships, in or out of marriage. It is not enough nowadays to educate people for marriage; we must also educate them for non-marriage.

New social institutions, economic trends, and cultural attitudes pose many challenges to families today. Yet we can find encouragement in the progress we have made so far in democratizing family life and making marriage a more just and compassionate institution. So long as we face new challenges squarely, instead of longing for a largely mythical and in any case irrecoverable past, we can approach the future with hope rather than despair.

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See more stories tagged with: marriage, gay marriage, family

Stephanie Coontz teaches history and family studies at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, and is the director of research and public education for the Council on Contemporary Families. She is the author of "Marriage, A History: How Love Conquered Marriage" (Viking Press).

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Nothing has really changed especially when you factor in all the materialistic wants from both sexes
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 22, 2007 12:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The materialism evil has only gotten stronger and may very well explain the increase in DIVORCE rates now 50+ %.

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Children
Posted by: EJW on Oct 22, 2007 2:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"And one of the main dangers to children after a divorce is the old-fashioned notion of many men that their obligations to their kids end when they no longer enjoy the services and support of the children's mother."

Why is this?

How do we raise healthy children without a full-time commitment to the child?

We need to put our attention of meeting the needs of children as a central issue of our times. 'Personal' satisfaction in marriage can only be the central issue of childless people and childlessness needs to become a valid choice for all. However, when children do become involved, they need to be paramount. Every child deserves a full-time consistant caregiver for at least the first five years and provisions need to be made for this in all forms of social contracts. The financial and emotional needs of a child have to come before that of either and all parents.

The high incident of dissatisfaction and aimlessness of much of todays youth can be traced to 'attachment' problems.

Don't take me wrong, I am not in favor of going back to 'the good old days' where women were required to 'submit' to their husbands or anything like that. What I intend is a move forward to new social forms that speak to the need of society to have happy, stable and productive members. One way to ensure this is to ensure the right of any child to a consistant full-time caregiver in the early years of life. How this is to be accomplished, I shall leave to wiser heads than I; I think some sort of legalily binding contract is required that spells out the obligations of parent to child. We can no longer count on social norms to do the job.

Happy Week

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» That's your opinion Posted by: banshee413
» RE: Children Posted by: off-the-radar 2
» RE: Children Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Children Posted by: off-the-radar 2
the role that religion once played was not addressed in the article
Posted by: Suzon on Oct 22, 2007 4:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though religious beliefs have ceased to rule the lives of many of us, society is still in thrall to the idea of foreverness.

Human happiness might be increased if marriages were time-limited and would expire (unless deliberately renewed) after 20 years or when the youngest child became of age.

This could make couples more eager to create good relationships (in order not to get dumped when the marriage expired) and keep families together for the duration of child-raising (if unhappy or unfulfilled in the marriage, you could at least look forward to freedom without guilt).

In Victorian times, marriages lasted 15 years on average. Two decades with one person is enough to create a rewarding relationship or to decide it's not going to happen. If it's the latter, you should not be pressured into continuing the marriage.

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» Right on! Posted by: Libertine
Materialism
Posted by: BST on Oct 22, 2007 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hunger for acquisition of material goods and the social message that "you deserve only the best" in terms of relationship are at the heart of marriage problems, period.

America is driven by the desire for stuff and, in fact, is encouraged constantly by the government to spend in order to keep the economy flourishing. It is also driven by the idea that there might be someone better out there, just a click away on a dating site.

Immaturity, evidenced in each of these pursuits, is what's undermining marriage.

I do agree that a contract with a renewal clause after, say, seven years, might put everyone on their toes. Signing up for a lifetime with one person, when you're 25, is completely absurd.

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» RE: Materialism Posted by: DaBear
MARRIAGE HAS INDEED CHANGED.
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 22, 2007 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Children have always been important, but recently couples tend to build their lives around them. Privacy seems to be gone and their lives seem entirely devoted to "parenting". I've been hearing about sexless marriages. So between 2 jobs and the focus on children, what's left? They have very little time for each other just to relax. Spare time is spent with each partner pursuing his/her own interests. It's a challenge at the very least. I'd never survive the lifestyle. I wish them all well. Thanks, ANNA

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Marriage Shouldn't Be Seen as An Endurance Contest
Posted by: Libertine on Oct 22, 2007 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is, the success or a failure of a marriage shouldn't be measured simply by how long it lasts.

As a previous commenter pointed out, "'til death do us part" as the default for all marriages increasingly makes less sense. For one thing people live a lot longer now than they once did. At one time, "til death do us part" typically meant 20 years or so, which was time enough to get a couple of the oldest children into adulthood. Decades of the "empty nest" syndrome was much less common than now.

What might have worked well and was right for a couple in their early 20s, might not be the same in the early 40s, early 50s, and so on. People grow and change, and not always in the same direction. To end such a marriage that was right in its time, but no longer is such a good fit isn't necessarily a failure. Indeed, a marriage that was good for ten or fifteen years, then ended is more of a success to me than one that lasts sixty years, that stopped working well after five years, but where the couple grimly hangs on because they measure success by endurance.

As anyone here who has read my comments in the past knows, if it were up to me, I'd abolish marriage as a legal category altogether. But because that isn't likely to happen any time soon, I'd go with the previous commenter who suggested renewable marriage contracts.

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» A 5, but.... Posted by: EJW
Secret
Posted by: Turkiye on Oct 22, 2007 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband and I have been married for 23 years, we have a, now 18, year old daughter. I have a 30 year old daughter from an idiotic first.
We own a business together, it is simply that our interests go in separate directions, after business and our daughter's. We each live in our own place, our daughter is with me or him, depending upon the teenage upheaval of the hour.
We talk 5,6,7 times a day. Best friends, not legally separated, not divorced, just he likes to schmooze and I like doing my CodePink things, my 7 dogs and our daughter's. ( not in that order ), I hope (;.
We raised our daughter's to be strong, independent, educate, educate, educate and then more education, tolerance, love, to be humane as a human considering the oldest is Cubana and the youngest is Turkish and they've both recieved their share of harrassment, racism and stereotyping . We always needed them to understand if they wound up with an abusive or in a loveless partnership, they have their degrees and walk out the damn door.
Maybe we didn't too that hot at showing them what a 2 parent, kids and a pooch lifestyle, but hell we all seem to be doing alright.
What sometimes is an end may also become a beginning.

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good article
Posted by: off-the-radar 2 on Oct 22, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
really interesting article, thanks for posting on Alternet.

The author alluded to the differences between generations and expectations of marriage.

I keep hearing that not splitting up chores equitably can be a deal breaker; it was certainly a big factor in the ending of my my marriage.

I wonder what it will be like though for the kids growing up now? Will chores be allocated on non-traditional gender lines or are today's children doing less chores?

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» RE: good article Posted by: DaBear
» RE: good article Posted by: off-the-radar 2
Excellent question
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 22, 2007 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right question today is not, "How can we shoehorn everybody into a single perfect family form?" Instead, it is, "How can we help every type of family whether living in the same household or not-minimize its particular weaknesses and build upon its potential strengths?"

I'm grateful to Stephanie for putting specific language ot the intuitive question many parents in my generation (GenX) have seen as our lived-reality from childhood. It's a good breath of air on a troubled issue.

Young people need tested programs to help them develop the resistance skills to say no to pressured sex and the coping skills to handle their sex lives responsibly once they begin consensual relationships, in or out of marriage.

If the author is suggestion innoculation strategies, um, that's not okay in light of the recent research on the ineffeicacy and dangerous consequences of "innoculation" approaches. This is the wrong direction to take. There are many underground programs like "HS&R" (Human Sexuality and Relationships) that teach adolescents what healthy relationships (straight-gay, no matter) look like, how they feel, how they work and how to make them work. I facilitated courses like this in private boarding schools in New England in the 1990's. I have yet to see an HS&R course anywhere else. The closest thing I've seen to date is UpFront and that deals with drugs. If one knows how to forge and maintain a healthy relationship, things like "pressured sex" don't happen because both partners know what pressure looks like, feels like and what the alternatives are. Non-violent communication styles also foster healthy relationships. But these aren't innoculatory approaches and lack the ability to meet the urgency expectations most people have for teens. I agree with the author's suggestion that we need to support and prepare young people for both marriage and non-marriage. Personally, "marriage" should not be an institution at all, just one of many life-styles. The bottom line must be healthy relationships. But in 'Merkuh, everyone's lusty for innoculation and that has been proven not to work. We have to make sure public policy initiatives take the reality based turn and leave innoculation off the path just like wife-beating, illegitimate offspring and other medieval notions.

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Conformist Kids
Posted by: Paxmana1 on Oct 22, 2007 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Loyola once said give me the child until it is 7 and I will show you the man .. So we give the child to the TV .. the electronic baby sitter with all of its subliminal messages or we give the child to day care centers who run to a particular agenda ..

Then the state gets in on the act at the age of 5 .. we treat our kids in the same way that we treat our elderly .. off to the nursing home with them .. good for the insurance companies .. bad for the elderly who are usually drugged up on something or the other .. they don,t get to die easy.

And on this business of sharing chores .. men do all of the heavy lifting whilst the women do the lighter work .. after a hard day at the mill .. I just needed to sit down and rest.

Women think they are free .. men think they are free .. the reality is that it takes two wages to service an usurious mortgage .. and the majority of household cleaners .. dishwash liquid .. laundry detergents and household sprays are literally killing those that use them or else setting them up for further problems down the track.

Our kids are being born decrepit with allergies and asthma and of course childhood cancer is now at epidemic proportions. Most peoples credit cards are maxed and there is now an increasing trickle of people losing their homes.

Raising kids is not about personal preferences such as choosing dresses or shirts .. its about duty and its about commitment to that duty.

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Still afraid of intimacy?
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 22, 2007 11:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I learned from the competent marriage counselors consulted (looking back, the competent ones were exceptions) the real opportunity of marriage is human intimacy. Yes, physical. But more so emotional.

I learned my ex was intimacy phobic, since control of others is the opposite of intimacy.

That happened many now long years ago. I assumed that since the awareness and the strategies for intimacy were developing, by now people would be fully aware.

Not so in a culture where phonyness and control are the rule. Exposing oneself, emotionally, is still taboo and dangerous. Yes, we can play the role enough to get a partner. But the increased demands for narcissistic satisfaction seem to have driven genuine intimacy into the wild.

Fortunately, once something has been learned it cannot be lost. Until then, we can let our role models give us the virtual intimacy of their poetry. Choose your role model well.

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Different marriages
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Oct 22, 2007 11:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article, of course, only addresses European-style marriage. Native Americans had very different kinds of marriages, and this was frowned upon by the European settlers. I recently watched a program on the History Channel about the history of sex. Apparently some Native American tribes had very egalitarian customs concerning marriage and the relationships between men and women. There were cases in which women of the colonies were kidnapped by the Indians and then "rescued" by their men, only to escape and return to the Indians because they liked the way they were treated so much better.

One of the reasons traditional American marriage went through such a bad period during the 60s and 70s was that women realized they no longer had to put up with being mistreated. When I was growing up, most of the mothers of my friends were afraid of their husbands. My parents' friends had a multitude of marital problems from adultery to verbal abuse (and if I knew about this, it was rather obvious to anyone else), but there was no talk of divorce. My ex-husband's mother was a virtual prisoner in her own home.

I did not know my current husband's parents, but by all accounts they were quite wonderful in nearly every way. But another family member has told me that his father was rather condescending to his mother, who was actually the more intelligent of the two.

I endured a marriage of 25 years with a man who was emotionally and verbally abusive and who had affairs on and off because I had been raised in a culture that supported keeping a commitment to marriage no matter how bad it was. I was actually proud of how long I stayed in this horrible relationship.

When women began to enter the workplace and discovered that they could live without a man's support, things really began to change. When men realized that they would no longer have the right to behave any way they wanted, relationships improved dramatically.

Of course, men are not and have never been solely responsible for the problems in marriages. Women have been unfaithful, demanding, and engaged in other unfortunate behavior. But the law has traditionally been on the side of the man, and men have been in power. It's not that men are inherently "evil" or any other such nonsense; it's that power corrupts and people tend to do what the law and custom permits them to do. When it becomes unacceptable, people tend to adapt to the new standards.

I am 60 years old, so I've seen a lot of generations grow up. The men I know who are my age are generally kind, generous, respectful, egalitarian, and nurturing. They are very different from my parents' generation. I've recently had young women tell me that this is changing back and that younger men are more macho and chauvinistic. I hope this is not true. And, of course, these young women have little to compare to their young men, since the marriages I observed growing up are mostly gone. There does seem to be a backlash against feminism (I read it all the time on this site). I think it has a lot to do with a concerted effort by neocons and rightwingnuts. But that's a different topic.

In any case, there have always been alternative marriages that don't mirror the ones that influenced the American ideal. We just don't know about them because our American society tends to ignore anything that isn't about, or similar to, itself.

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» RE: Different marriages Posted by: mercury613
» RE: Different marriages Posted by: DaBear
Rewriting History, the Feminist Way
Posted by: Urgelt on Oct 23, 2007 8:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an awful lot of rewriting history going on here. Marriage was all about money just 30 years ago, and not love? And now it's different?

Get real.

This article is the worst social claptrap I've read in Alternet.

Marriage and divorce statistics vary over time. That's partly a product of economic upticks and downturns, increasing job mobility, inflation or lack of it, housing prices, interest rates, changes in birth control technologies, taxation policies, plant closings, escalating health care costs and associated fears... there are dozens of variables which keep couples together or fling them apart, and how they influence marriage and divorce statistics matters. It's all too easy to read more social relevence into those statistics than is really there. With this article, the author has done so with a vengeance.

Men and women have been choosing mates in about the same way for a lot longer than 30 years. The same choices were in play, and they were made the same way. Love mattered. So did economics. The main difference is that nobody walked around with cell phones beeping at them and shooting them text messages. We had to use land lines if we wanted to talk over a distance.

There is a sad trend in the feminist movement to assert that modern feminists are, in every way, superior to the women of earlier generations. To arrive at this conclusion they must indulge in some truly acrobatic excesses of information filtration. It makes me dizzy to watch.

I know it's not true, because my dating experience in the 1970's brought me into contact with strong, self-assertive, well-educated, career-minded women who were every bit as admirable as the most devoted feminist today could hope to be.

Give it a rest. If you want to rewrite history, you'll have better luck choosing periods for which there are no living survivors.

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NOT Historicaly Accurate
Posted by: Setnakt on Oct 25, 2007 4:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is NOT historicaly accurate. Perhapes it is with regard to western culture, but it's certainly not accurate with regards to certain ancient middle eastern cultures, specificly mine, the culture of ancient Egypt and my ancestors. Marriage WAS indeed based on political reason for those of royalty, BUT however it was always the personial choice of the indivual with all others, and usualy based on love not matterialistic factors. As ours was/is not a Judeo-Xian based culture love was the main factor and women were never treated as slaves/property. Every society on Earth was not corrupted by filthy, amoral, Judeo-Xian based bullshit. Yes it was a few years back before what this article covers, but not beyond what history records as fact. So "sorry" but there WAS such a Golden Age as alluded to when most DID enjoy a better standard than what proceded thereafter, including in todays, greed-driven society. And a time when women were seen as equals to men not their inferiors. Look deeper, and realize you can't polish shit or fix the shit that is the Judeo-Xian psudeoreligion's perversion and destruction of the family and marriage. The only solution is to abandon wholesale what has been proven over millenniums to be a falure and returen to the Gold standard time-proven (over 10,000 years) to produce happiness and virtually no divorce or uneeded drama.
Reverend Setnakt

~Xeper~

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Hazy Days of Autumn
Posted by: talkville on Oct 26, 2007 2:52 AM   
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Marriage (and the Household) have historically been the sites of re-production of our social basis. Our political-economy is founded on principles of Anarchisms (and civil society as its general form). The Individual rules, and has no ties whatsoever to others besides his (or her) very individuality and his (or her) private interests - enlightened or not.

Especially in the days since Reagan and Thatcher, we ought to be keenly aware that the Hero of today is the Entrepreneur, the individual business-man (or woman or person). Now why on earth would a successful (in the finance and investment world) individual even consider such things as marriage? It would seem the very logic of Milton Friedman and Free-Marketeering would militate against this option. After all, when all that money can be made, why add to costs by marriage and a family? It's among the many contradictions of capitalism - and one cannot have the Cake and Eat it too. Upper (and even Middle-) Class marriages are characterized by Alliance; we proletarians are still loving folks. But Politics and Economy will batter and bash at the windows (if one is lucky enough to have them) every single second of every single day.

But society will re-produce itself -- for better or for worse is still way too early to tell and the signs point in the wrong direction. This is an issue for deep individual reflection. Especially in these days of returning (but highly improved and refined) Feudalism, Aristocracy and Country Squires and such. "We've come a long way, baby!" And barely started walking.

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