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Sex and Relationships

Seeking the Hairless Porn Star Ideal

By Heather Wood, Sirens Magazine. Posted June 30, 2008.


The temptations and hype surrounding the Brazilian wax turn into a case of buyer's remorse for this author.
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How's this for afterglow? Me: Crying. Him: Laughing.

Pretty much the nightmare post-coital situation. And all because I got a Brazilian wax.

I'd been dating the same guy for years and I thought I'd surprise him with something sexy and new. After all, every woman's magazine and every other Sex and the City reference had been hinting at the power of the Brazilian -- the must look of every season. So I went out and got myself some designer pubic hair.

And he laughed.

Why was I so certain that he would love this new look? Convinced that I had to do it, even? I fell victim to pop-culture peer pressure, and I'm not the only one.

Ever since Pam Anderson bared all in Playboy, some sick force has slowly been pushing this over-bronzed, impossibly proportioned, tweezed, hairless ideal on women. And, ladies, we've been suckered in to it!

A friend of mine talks about Brazilians like they're no big deal: "Guys my age just expect it. They grew up with Playboy and the Spice Channel and Maxim. They think women just come hairless."

This is a big deal. When did things get so out of hand? Just a few generations ago women weren't shaving above their knees. Now we're all-but-expected to wash, condition and exfoliate our pubic region, then obliterate all signs of hair life?

The problem here isn't what men are demanding of women; it's that women and men don't talk, period. It's easier for us to assume that what's good for super-groomed starlets is good for us, a requirement even. But, gals, we're not taking the time to ask our partners what they really want, not to mention actually considering what we, ourselves, feel most comfortable with.

If I had simply asked my guy if he prefers triangles to landing strips, I would have saved myself a lot of pain and embarrassment. His exact words once he stopped laughing: "I'm a man of the '70s, baby. I like to know I'm with a woman."

I'm not saying the Brazilian is evil (though if pain is any indication, the devil is definitely behind this) or that you should stop your waxing rituals if you're in to it. But we need to stop letting porn dictate our grooming habits and decide for ourselves, like adults. We need to know why some men are obsessed with a Barbie-like pubic region while others worship natural bush. And what about men's pubic hair? Can a girl simply look her boyfriend in the eye and ask him if he'd consider taking an electric razor to his scrotum?

Most of us can't. I, for one, was mortified to revisit the topic with my boyfriend after our hairy (or, I should say, hairless) little incident. But as it turns out, it's a lot easier to talk to guys I'm not sleeping with about it -- all in the service of you, dear reader. (Even this wasn't as easy as I make it sound here with my breezy little tone -- this stuff took multiple phone calls and emails to cajole out of them.) But I finally managed to rally an adequate sampling of guys to talk this through. I can never quite look at these men the same way again, so please appreciate their wisdom. (Even so, also remember: You're gonna have to ask your own guy what his preferences are -- this is just a starting point here.)

One male friend seemed stunned at the idea that women go through all this trouble just to please men: "No one's ever asked me what I prefer. Honestly, you guys are spending way too much time on things. It's just hair."

In fact, most of the men I talked to admitted to liking a "nice and neat" area to work with, but specific qualifications (such as the size and shape of the groomed area) is pretty insignificant. "Things should be clean-swept, but not demolished," another guy said. "A periodic check-in is a good thing. Spending every afternoon on your hands and knees pulling up 'weeds' from your garden goes a bit too far."

And as for their own nether regions, it seems guys are just as willing to try something new if their partner poses the question, though sometimes a little incentive helps: "I'd sculpt the hair down there into a replica of the leaning tower of Pisa if it meant getting more frequent visitations, and any man who claims otherwise is a liar."

The fact is, they'd rather be getting some than replaying last night's "Daily Show" on TiVo in the living room while you're waxing away in the bathroom again: "Ladies, you're spending hours down there, but how often do you actually show it off? We'd rather see it more often in all its unkempt glory than once a month in the shape of a lightning bolt."

Bottom line? "At the end of the day," says our favorite guy of all, "most of us are just happy to be there."

And that's probably something your regular waxer can't say. Unless you tip really well.

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See more stories tagged with: media, women, grooming

Heather Wood is cofounder and editorial director of SirensMag.com.

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Errr.....ok.....
Posted by: rickiey on Jun 30, 2008 9:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But speaking as a male, ya know what I like? I like that she asked, and I gave her an honest answer, (I do prefer the brazilian for reasons that involves hairs and choking sounds) and she did what we both want.

But I would have been ok if she didn't, either. It's her body after all, like this author's man, I'm just "happy to be there".

I guess the lesson here isn't as the author suggests "brazilians are stupid".

Perhaps it is "if you are getting information about what your man wants from some stupid woman's magazine, or even worse, a TV show that no male watches, you are an idiot."

Ask him, he'll tell you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I wonder Posted by: PlumPudding
» RE: I wonder Posted by: marilee
» RE: I wonder Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: I wonder Posted by: marilee
» RE: I wonder Posted by: Expired
» RE: I wonder Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I wonder Posted by: Joni50
» RE: rrr.....ok..... Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: rrr.....ok..... Posted by: armswideopen
» RE: rrr.....ok..... Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: rrr.....ok..... Posted by: NicoSuave
» RE: rrr.....ok..... Posted by: Libsrule
Fashion and 'beauty' garbage isn't meant to impress men...
Posted by: Farasien on Jul 1, 2008 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Its done to impress other WOMEN. Try asking yourself, next time you do something rediculous, like waxing (yaknow, because you've been told men demand it) if you're doing it because the man or men in your life really want it, or because you're doing it to toe the line on some stupid standard set by the beauty industry. Most women primp and dress themselves not really to impress the opposite sex, but for each other, like women at large are in some kind of sick competition with each other.

Ladies- pure and simple- do like this author did and ASK some men what is really required of you to look attractive. You're very likely to be surprised. Unlike what women's magazines and TV shows tell you, we don't all expect-or sometimes even like- 3 thick coats of makeup, perfect hair, plastic surgery perfectly waxed or sculpted nether regions, and a $2,000 dress.

I once heard a comic joke that if you look at what men and women have to do to try and impress enough to sleep with the opposite sex, there is a strange disconnect... For men- its a must to have the perfect hair/body/job/lifestyle/backstory/etc. Women.... have to comb their hair.

He really wasn't far off.

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Hair
Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal on Jul 1, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only pre-pubescent girls should have no pubic hair.

Any guy who insists on you shaving, or waxing sounds like a pedophile.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hair Posted by: billgee
» RE: Hair Posted by: leta
» RE: Hair Posted by: Capybara
» RE: Hair Posted by: richholland
» RE: Hair Posted by: billgee
» RE: Hair Posted by: chuckjs
» RE: Hair Posted by: marilee
» RE: Hair Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: Hair Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Hair Posted by: wishninja
» RE: Hair Posted by: Joni50
» RE: Hair Posted by: AMerrickanGirl
» hair is unsanitary Posted by: harpy
A Man of the 70s
Posted by: Libertine on Jul 1, 2008 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That describes me to a T.

I became sexually active in the mid-70s, when no women would ever think of removing every bit of their pubic hair. The most women did then was trim it up a bit if they had random hairs that poked out of their panties or bathing suits. Otherwise, they came as nature intended. I didn't have any problem with it, nor did any other man I know.

I never encountered a bald one until the mid to late 90s. I didn't like it then, and the passage of time hasn't improved my opinion this phenomenon.

I want a woman to look like a grown woman, not a prepubescent girl. In my opinion, it's kind of creepy to see a woman who imitates the appearance of a little girl by maintaining a hairless pubic area.

Seeing a woman with a five o'clock shadow between her legs or who has an angry red rash there also doesn't do much to arouse me.

I hear guys nowadays say they prefer the hairless look because they prefer a woman to be "clean".

I don't know where people get the idea that hair = dirty. I have to deal with a similar misconception as a long haired male -- "clean cut" being a synonym for "short hair".

In the instance of female pubic hair, there's no problem if the woman bathes regularly, and I've seen no indication that women who go au naturel bathe any less frequently than their hairless sisters. So, it's not really a cleanliness issue.

I don't have a problem with a bit of trimming to keep it from showing when wearing a bathing suit, but removing every speck of hair is obssessive-compulsive and going overboard.

It's a trend that I hope eventually falls by the wayside.

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» RE: A Man of the 70s Posted by: maestra
» RE: A Man of the 70s Posted by: Vinkenoog
Too true
Posted by: Robba29 on Jul 1, 2008 11:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Vagina Monologues did a nice little bit about this--really funny but hit the nail on the head. Speaking as a guy who straddles the Maxim/70's eras, I agree with the other men she interviewed--trimmed and neat, and I do the same out of courtesy. I mow my lawn, I don't slash and burn, know what I mean?

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Its a new world
Posted by: billgee on Jul 1, 2008 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the Kids if you aint one no more.

THINK FOR YOURSELF, Women of the World

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Caring to much about what other People Think
Posted by: Timberbee on Jul 2, 2008 5:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You feel you were pressured into getting a Brazilian because of magazines, etc, and, feel you were victimized because your mate "laughed" at you. Wow, simply wow.

And now you are out to spread the word to the other sisters out there.

And who's fault, exactly, is all of the confusion within yourself? Do you feel high heels and pantyhose are male contraptions forced on women? Breast implants and makeup?

We are all human beings. Culture certainly plays a deep, deep role in our day to day choices, and, as someone who also cares a bit to much about what other people think, I can relate to it, but :) There is also such a thing as personal responsibility. You can say... No. You can do things for your own reasons. You can wax, or not wax, depending on what pleases you, without worrying about what will please your partner, and, if you do decide to do something specifically for that partner, and they don't appreciate it... you can stop, take a deep, long look, and see what that tells you about them, and, look inside and decide how you feel about it. And go from there.

I think many, many, women, in this Country, are doing things for themselves. So, just what is the focus of your article? Just what, and who, are you seeking to influence, or, is this just a good topic to push another piece out the door?

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If Her Boyfriend Hadn't Laughed. . .
Posted by: kegbot1 on Jul 2, 2008 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would she even have wrote this column?

Slaves, all of you.

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Ah yes...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Jul 2, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another article that basically ends up with the same message... TALK TO YOUR PARTNER! That mattersa whole hell of a lot more than hair or the lack thereof.

Also... had both... Slightly prefer shaved.

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excerpt from a letter i wrote yesterday to a much younger man i know
Posted by: ptown on Jul 2, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the best sex I’ve ever had was with guys who were not good looking. They had HEART and that’s what made them beautiful. Some of the worst sex I’ve ever had was with very beautiful men who only cared about themselves. They only cared about their own pleasure, they hit it and quit it, like that. Attraction isn’t only physical for me. It’s mostly mental and emotional. The most gorgeous guy on earth can die and go to hell if he’s a game player, a liar, a user, selfish, breaks promises, or doesn’t make an effort to communicate truthfully.

You get me? Don't be one of those guys who screw girls you don't even care about just so you can squirt for a minute and then treat a girl like trash afterwards.

Check this: You said you like your shit shaved. Well, I like my shit rich. HA HA.

I am old, fat, soft bodied, have wrinkles, scars, and have LOTS of body hair that I don’t shave because it hurts A LOT when it grows back for days and weeks. Body hair is natural and you will see it on most women for the rest of your life. Some lucky women have no body hair but it’s normal on certain women, like me.
You haven’t seen it yet because all your young girls try to look like models and dancers but most older women just give up that nonsense because it is TORTURE. But even I can still get a man because I am warm hearted…even though I am no beauty.

I hope you can open your mind to what you find pretty and/or sexy. You will meet thousands of women in your life. You will have sex with dozens, if not hundreds. The right person for you may be very different from what you expect. Keep your mind open and consider the heart before you consider the body. The body is just the body and all bodies change, age, fall apart, and die. We are not our bodies. I hope that you will treat every woman you date and every woman you fuck (no matter if she is pretty or ugly to you) the way you would want any man to treat your own mom…with acceptance...without judgement...with kindness...and with care.

The person inside is where you find the beauty or the ugliness. I’m sure you’ll see what I mean someday.

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Some MEN...
Posted by: Bbear41 on Jul 2, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...are removing their pubic hair, But I'm a hairy 'ol bear and intend to keep mine.

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Oh, Please....
Posted by: Dadster3 on Jul 2, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't work for you & your guy? That's cool, but some guys and some real women like it. Asthetics aside, I'm told that it also provides a pleasant and relatively constant genital awareness.

I would never make the clean look a prereq; on the other hand, I do prefer to keep sex and flossing as separate activities.

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Woemn don't listen to men about this stuff.
Posted by: logic11 on Jul 2, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been my experience that women don't really pay a lot of attention to what the men in their life say about appearance, instead paying attention to what they think the men are feeling on some deeper level (I don't have that level, I say what I mean, so do most of my friends).
A classic example: my girlfriend will always take the words of one of our gay friends over mine when it comes to an outfit. I asked her why at one point... she said that he will be honest about it and I will just say that she looks good to mollify her. Of course, our gay friend is known for having generally awful taste (he has a thing for ball caps and t-shirts, plus his decorating style is very low end 70's). Meanwhile, if I think something looks bad on my girlfriend, I tell her in a diplomatic way (okay, so a couple of times not so diplomatic) and I know that she is okay with it provided I am honest.
This applies to all aspects of appearance... hell, I tend to prefer women with curves, but small and perky breasts (that's right, I like women who have small breasts and are a bit bigger on the bottom, as do many of my male friends...), shaved is fine, as is hair, whatever, neither is a major factor.

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Blame Porn - How Courageous!
Posted by: goldmarx on Jul 2, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Contrary to the author's assertion, porn is not forcing anyone to shave their pubes.

Before the mid-1990s, most adult film/video models had full bushes. Since most women outside of porn had full bushes then as well, does this mean that this was due to porn? Does porn at least get the credit for holding the "full bush" standard back then?

Women need to take responsibility for their own choices and stop scapegoating porn.

Down with George Bush!
Up with Max Bush!

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Interesting...
Posted by: tlCampbell on Jul 2, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Normally anything posted by people from Sirens magazine just makes me cringe but at least this had an underlying message of communicate with your partner.

I've experimented around with hair removal--sugaring is far more gentle and less painful than waxing, even in the delicate nether regions, by the way--and pretty much I remove what I want and just trim the rest short, and that's that. I obviously don't want to have a "SURPRISE! CHINCHILLA SAMMICH!" to offer my partner but it's ridiculous to think I'm going to waste that much time and effort worrying over fitting into the standards set by people (or an industry) I don't have any interest in.

If my partner is that shallow and demanding, they can find someone else who's willing to comply; I'll go elsewhere for a good romp. :P

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Barbie dolls are sexless
Posted by: mystere2 on Jul 2, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Growing up in an era when seeing pubic hair was a rare treat, I was so happy when Playboy began showing natural women.
Now porn has turned tastes towards a pre-adolescent Barbie look. It help evade the "no grass on the playing field, no game" rules and makes young girls look sexualized. Bring back maturity in sexuality. Hair is sensual!
check www.cussandotherrants.com

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» RE: Barbie dolls are sexless Posted by: xenocyd
» RE: Barbie dolls are sexless Posted by: Vinkenoog
Try the completely Bald Look now to surprise that new S.O.
Posted by: logansafi on Jul 2, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The authoress seems to have a rather insensitive S.O. She should dump him in a second flat for making fun of her efforts to be sexy for him. What a cad!

And when she gets a better, more sensitive man, one who appreciates her more, she should surprise him by shaving her head totally bald! That's really sexy, and PLUS, I think it would meet with the total approval of the sensual PC crowd here at alternet.

PS, just don't use wax to get that totally smooth effect up above. No need to torture yourself just for him. But smooth is smooth, and your S.O. probably smooths himself out, too. Just not in the same spots! You can do the same! It's not criminal at all. Go for it again!

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Men have their own hair issues as well
Posted by: bizeeb on Jul 2, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the central point of this article, but would also point out that modern day America also expects men's chests to be virtually hairless, not to mention their backs. I don't think porn sets the standards, but follows them.

To wear a swimsuit, most women are going to have to something down there, though the landing strip is certainly above and beyond the call of duty. (FYI: A "Brazilian" wax, also reffered to as a "Playboy" wax, actually refers to waxing your butt crack and around your anus. The up front stuff is still just referred to as a bikini wax.)

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» RE: Not too attractive... Posted by: jimidee
OUCH!
Posted by: 2dogarage on Jul 2, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do women feel the need to suffer what I understand is considerable pain to conform to this new pre-pubescent look?

And BTW, since we're being so frank here, the waxed pubes of "mature" women look entirely different from those of a co-ed, time for women and humans in general to grow up and stop trying to emulate the (much) younger generation.

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» RE: OUCH! Posted by: DonnaSchlesinger
important issue, but same old insulting/incoherent approach
Posted by: brent.emerson on Jul 2, 2008 10:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Speaking as a radical feminist man, this type of argument against pubic hair removal continues to befuddle me. In the background are feminist ideas on which most agree: when someone in a relationship is "insisting" on anything in this vein, something is wrong; when we find ourselves in a culture where women are peer- and media-pressured to radically alter their bodies, something is wrong.

But what those ideas have to do with waxing is beyond me. In a world where people have their breasts sliced open to insert bags of fluid, inject poison into their faces, resurface their skin with lasers and chemicals, reshape their noses and chins and cheeks and now even labia ... we're talking about hair removal. We do this all the time when we get haircuts! It's pretty much biologically analogous to trimming our fingernails!

The hairless = pre-pubescent argument strikes me as an issue-avoidance appeal to emotion -- if you can quickly compare someone to a pedophile, then you don't have to actually stick around and discuss their ideas. Just because hair comes to our bodies with the onset of puberty doesn't mean that we're trying to imitate pre-pubescent people when we remove hair. There are in fact other models we're trying to imitate, namely post-pubescent people who have removed their hair.

And it's an argument that's not used anywhere else. Does anyone suggest that the women who prefer me to shave my face are forcing me to conform to the hairlessness standard set by a young pre-pubsecent boy? Should most adult man have beards because hair naturally grows on their faces?

The woman who puts down her razor and says "Wait, I don't have to shave my legs and underarms" is claiming power over her own body, and we celebrate her. But so is the woman who picks the razor back up and removes whatever hair she chooses, on her own terms, and we should celebrate her too.

Of course, if your partner is coercing you to undergo any kind of body modification, something is wrong. And if a generation of women starts unconsciously spending a lot of money and energy on maintaining a creeping new standard of pubic hair status, it's worth talking about, to make sure people internalize and actualize their power over their own bodies. But sometimes that power will be used to get brazilian waxes, and enjoy them!

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Eh...
Posted by: EinMD on Jul 2, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not into the pre-pubescent look. I prefer at least some hair. Ladies, you don't have to shave it all off, just keep track of what you have. As far as the women I've seen who do this, you end up looking like a plucked chicken anyway which in itself is kinda gross.

If you think about it, aside from the location and it's sensitivity, It's just like with a guy's beard. If he has a beard that is nicely trimmed, washed and kept everything is just fine and he looks like a fine upstanding citizen and all. Could be a banker, or a lawyer or other such person.

Give him a month of growth with no trimming, combing or picking the bits of food out of that beard and he'll look like he just emerged from a spider hole in Iraq to ask you for spare change on the side of a subway in downtown Philly.

It's no different in the pubic area. No need to napalm the whole forest when just a little weeding and gardening will do.

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» Tooo funny....n/m Posted by: lefty010
common sense
Posted by: DaBear on Jul 2, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I laughed all the way through this article and I'm eternally happy that our fair author has learned an important lesson: talk/listen to your partner.

On the whole hair-porn thing, yeah, no. Porn isn't the source and neither is pedophilia. When mass media and bullshit needs to be exposed as bullshit koolaid, Houston, we have a problem. Never listen to Madison Ave. Ever. They're a bunch of money grubbing trolls with utterly no soul, period. I thought we all learned that once the first Lee jeans and Nike sneakers fad came and went.... it's bullshit. If kids today don't know it, that's our fault for doin' a shitty job telling them the truth.

Hair down there is a practical thing, I wanna enjoy my visit and send my woman to heaven in the longest, most pleasing way possible, without gagging on the vegetation. But if the forest exists, I'm still going in because it's time to fly, baby—I just might go there less often if I gotta clear my throat constantly for the next day and a half (I wanna see an Alternet article on why pubic hair gets stuck and stays there in the throat for so damned long!). Besides, as you age, some things get less important, mebbe even fun (either that or you get less picky about this or that).

I only mention this for the younger folks, to emphasize the author's brilliant wakeup to common sense. Ask yourself what you can live with, ask her/him what they'd prefer, balance that and you'll be happier. And don't listen to mass media, because they're just too fuckin' stoopid to live. And as you get older, you don't worry so much about this or that...

Wear your gloves, put on your hat, eat your breakfast, and enough of yer veggies and fruits, smoke and drink less, smile and nod at the old guys, use a firm handshake, all that...

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Well, personally...
Posted by: ahmlco on Jul 2, 2008 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, personally, speaking as a man I'd rather go skin-diving than muff-diving, if you know what I mean.

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Needless Conundrum
Posted by: DanteSantini on Jul 2, 2008 11:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a happily married man, I have no qualms about full disclosure these days. So, for the public record and to help any woman anywhere who is wrestling with this unnatural and unnecessary conundrum, please consider this point of view.



What a women looks like -- everywhere about her body -- is important to most men, but ultimately never more important to the woman herself, since it is her self-esteem that, in the final evaluation, shines through. And trust me, nothing is more transparent than a women's sense of self and respect. That's true whether in the boardroom, on the tennis court, at a dinner party, around the kitchen, or invariably, under the sheets in the bedroom. Therefore, if a women wants to shave or not shave, sculpt a masterpiece of sorts, twinkle a little or a lot, or simply agree to explore the question and possible oblige her man upon his response, that's her sole option and should always remain so under all conditions and situations.



As man who came of age in the late 1970's, my first experience, amongst more than several dozens opportunities I will proudly add, with a full frontal Brazilian made me wonder if my partner had recently been to some sort of medical clinic that I should be concerned about. This revelation occurred less than 5 years ago and the woman herself was also in her 5th decade. Given her overbearing sense of self and body type, she was surprised by my surprise, which wasn't a pleasant one at that. So despite our similar ages, there appeared to be a cultural gap, or in this case a "missing link" that I had not anticipated. (I guess I should have watched more SITC on HBO.)



I have to agree with most men I have encountered where the subject, usually reluctantly, has come up at commercial time during SportsCenter. We simply don't get the little naked girl look, or why any of "our women" would even consider doing something like that just because some "other women" are doing it. But, of course, that last issue in and of itself is far bigger than I, or any guy I know at this age, would ever think we will be able to fully grasp.



In conclusion, I strongly prefer the au naturale - albeit clean -- look. I would hope most women of all ages would, too. But thankfully, a Brazilian is not as permanent as a tattoo, which are really gross down there!



Dante

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Personal Preference
Posted by: ninwoman on Jul 2, 2008 12:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a woman. I actually prefer when I am mostly clean-shaven because I'm more sensitive to everything.

I've shaved strictly for a guy before, and did it because I saw the mainstream porn he watched and figured I should look like those women. No discussion, but then, we didn't have a good relationship. Or good sex, for that matter. I was reluctant to shave after that.

My husband likes it when I am mostly clean-shaven but has never made me feel pressured about it. I have come to the conclusion, after lots of experience, that oral sex and onanism are a million times better if I'm shaved. For me, personally.

I think blaming porn for setting unreasonable expectations misses the point of porn. It's about unreasonable expectations. If we all could have what we watched in porn, we wouldn't be watching it in the first place.

People are making a lot of arguments for the moral superiority of their personal preferences. From my experiences, there are joys to be taken in any vulva - shaved, trimmed, or bushier than Castro's beard. What you prefer is what you prefer, end of story.

If anything, this article reminded me of how lucky I am to be in a relationship where I feel free to share my sexual preferences and am eager to hear my partner's.

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Are Nipples and Noses Next?
Posted by: mcartri on Jul 2, 2008 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Honey, get rid of the nipples;they irritate my cheeks. Honey, get rid of your nose. I don't like you wearing glasses. Can we expect this headline next Easter: Public pubic hairs run amok on White House lawn, as President chases rabbits away!

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Why do my posts keep disappearing?
Posted by: ozonehole on Jul 2, 2008 1:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote a nice, thoughtful inoffensive post on this topic a few hours ago, only to see it disappear into the ether. Second time in two days that this has happened.

What's going on with this server.

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No dear. Not "we". YOU were suckered in to it.
Posted by: fosters005 on Jul 2, 2008 1:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a life FCS.

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If your boyfriend laughed, he obviously didn't appreciate your efforts
Posted by: snideelf on Jul 2, 2008 2:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only that, he's missing out on how women are really unbelievably beautiful flowers.

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» All Women are Not Beautiful Posted by: European American
1 of 2-->Hair Removal: The Funniest lesson I learned, by READING (=^o^=)
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jul 2, 2008 7:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1/2 (if part 2/2 is missing, email for "the rest of the story": Prairiewaif@hotmail.com)



All hair removal methods have tricked women with their promises of easy, painless removal - The Epilady, scissors, razors, Nair and now->the wax.

My night began as any other normal weeknight. Come home, fix dinner, play with the kids. I then had the thought that would ring painfully in my mind for the next few hours:
"Maybe I should pull the waxing kit out of the medicine cabinet."

So I headed to the site of my demise: the bathroom. It was one of those "cold wax" kits. No melting a clump of hot wax, you just rub the strips together in your hand, they get warm and you peel them apart and press them to your leg (or wherever else) and you pull the hair right off. No muss, no fuss. How hard can it be? I mean, I'm not a genius, but I am
mechanically inclined enough to figure this out.

So, I pull one of the thin strips out. Its two strips facing each other stuck together. Instead of rubbing them together, my genius kicks. I get out the hair dryer and heat it to 1000 degrees. "Cold wax," yeah,right!

I lay the strip across my thigh. Hold the skin around it tight and pull. It works! OK, so it wasn't the best feeling, but it wasn't too bad. I can do this!

Hair removal no longer eludes me! I am She-rah, fighter of all wayward body hair and maker of smooth skin extraordinaire.

With my next wax strip I move north. After checking on the kids, I sneak back into the bathroom, for the ultimate hair fighting championship. I drop my panties and place one foot on the toilet. Using the same procedure, I apply the wax strip across the right side of my bikini line, covering the right half of my vagina and stretching down to the inside of my butt cheek (Yes, it was a long strip) I inhale deeply and brace myself; Rip!

I'm blind! Pain!

OH MY GOD!!


Vision returning, I notice that I've only managed to pull off half the strip. DAMN! Another deep breath and Rip!

Everything is swirly and spotted. I think I may pass out...must stay conscious...Do
I hear crashing drums??? Breathe, breathe...OK, back to normal.


I want to see my trophy - a wax covered strip, the one that has caused me so much pain, with my hairy pelt sticking to it. I want to revel in the glory that is my triumph over body hair.
I hold up the strip! There's no hair on it. Where is the hair?! WHERE IS THE WAX?!

Slowly I ease my head down, foot still perched on the toilet. I see the hair. The hair that should be on the strip. I touch. I am touching wax.

DAMN! I run my fingers over the most sensitive part of my body, which is now covered in cold wax and matted hair. Then I make the next BIG mistake; remember my foot is still propped up on the toilet? I know I need to do something. So I put my foot down.

DAMN! I hear the slamming of a cell door. Vagina? Sealed shut! Butt? Sealed shut!

I penguin walk around the bathroom trying to figure out what to do and think to myself Please don't let me get the urge to poop. My head may pop off!"

What can I do to melt the wax? Hot water! Hot water melts wax; I'll run the hottest water I can stand into the bathtub, get in, immerse the wax-covered bits and the wax should melt and I can gently wipe it off, right? *WRONG!*

I get in the tub; the water is slightly hotter than that used to torture prisoners of war or sterilize surgical equipment; I sit.

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» I'm not sure... Posted by: bobtr900
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Posted by: Jdog on Jul 2, 2008 11:55 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hairy, bald, somewhere in between...Not sure why this is an issue worth discussing here on Alternet. We have so many far more important problems to deal with (Iraq, the economy, healthcare...The long-overdue impeachment and removal from office of Bush & Cheney) that I just don't get how this has become more than just a discussion of people's individual preference.

For the record: I like a tight shave, just how my wife has had it for the past 10 years or so...But I'm not prepared to make a social/political/women's rights issue of it.

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What's the big ideal?
Posted by: talkville on Jul 3, 2008 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Res Nata; Res Facta. Anywhere Nature is found, expel and extirpate it!. The classic ideal, The Statue.

Our new gods have more force, more power! Into the Naked Barbie's Body, in all its skin tones, the Breath of Life is breathed. Not a hint, not a sign of Nature. Only Pure Mind. There's also Ken, of course.

They are seen, revealed, discovered in magazines, videos, films, and now lots of them, full of Spirit, walk the city streets and the highways and byways of our cosmopolis. Pure Beauty.

But alas! these breathing Barbies and Kens will also grow old; what might they teach their younger ones, who once again will feel those full-bodied attractions and repulsions, those myriad and interesting passions that stir within, unexplainable, when meeting some other particular person? Will Pure, Ideal Babies be someday born? Who knows? in an Ideal World, anything is possible.

Meanwhile, out here in the actual world, things sure seem to be becoming more austere, more severe, more life-less all the time. And one Barbie looks just like any other; one Ken looks just like any other. One city looks just like any other.

What is being left, one may ask, to spark Desire? What IS the Big Ideal? Hegel's Absolute Spirit? Hairless, faceless, thoroughly un-conditioned; thoroughly non-natural. Each to their Askesis.

What DID the Body do or say to draw such relentless hatred and resentment?

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hey men
Posted by: karyse on Jul 3, 2008 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thanks for all the great commentary on this issue. I always believed (because of personal experience) that woman do this dumb stuff because they don't actually understand men. You've proved me right.

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Land of milk and honey
Posted by: bdunn1@tds.net on Jul 3, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shorn or not, it's still the promised land. I have always like to get my partners wet as can be and then gently push their pubic hair inside their warm and wet spot and work it in and out. But it's ladies' choice. Truly, either way, men are blest!

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» The Promised Land ???????? Posted by: gellero1
Oral
Posted by: Latex Solar Beef on Jul 3, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tonguing through course pubes is not fun.

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Just Use Moom
Posted by: harpy on Jul 3, 2008 12:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's pretty painless. The reason for bare is hygiene. It's way more sanitary

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What, no pictures?
Posted by: YogiBear on Jul 3, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This web site could be a little more liberal, I think.

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Big Bushes are Beautiful
Posted by: racy_rick on Jul 4, 2008 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The age of bronzed ladies and perfectly shaved bits will come to an end.

I just think aestetically it is so much nicer to look at a woman with a bush than without. I can't help feeling like she is too young or has a problem with her hanging lips.

It is a misnomer that hair gets in the way of cunnilingus. The area to be licked definitely doesn't have hair. Part the lips and dive in.

Without pubic hair you don't have a good excuse to use a hair brush.

Vibrating Hairbrush

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YUK
Posted by: gellero1 on Jul 5, 2008 12:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are some guys who like hairy armpits and hairy legs on girls too. Ever make love to a tarantula??

And even Greek and Italian girls have finally abandoned the hirsute look.

FYI, Middle Eastern women have always shaved their pubes a a cultural custom.

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» RE: YUK Posted by: papibear
Ah, yes . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jul 5, 2008 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another women's "issue." While I confess I didn't read past the title, it's great to know that all that female genius concentrates on matters so weighty. It's also great to know that AlterNet must cater to this kind of tabloid intellect in order to stay popular: it not only explains a whole lot about how we've come to be in the pickle we're in as a nation, it forewarns of what to expect in the coming election - more of what we've gotten in the last several, in other words. It's always great to realize that women's "issues" guide the nation.

This is an "issue," all right - crap is always an issue.

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Where to begin?
Posted by: Morgaine Swann on Jul 5, 2008 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm always shocked when I hear someone younger than I am who is so uptight. Why is the author sleeping with someone with whom she's too embarrassed to discuss fashion? This is about fashion - not cleanliness, just fashion. (The guys who are advocating this for cleanliness are too immature to be having sex - I feel sorry for the women who encounter them.) Both men and women are being held to a ridiculous standard by the fashion industry, and they're falling all over themselves trying to attain the impossible.

Photoshop has enabled the extremists in that industry to erase any sign of humanity in their models - airbrushed, hairless skin without blemish, fake eyecolors, unrealistic proportions- one magazine featured a picture of Scarlett Johansen, a perfectly lovely girl, in which her waist had been reduced to the point that a living woman would have to lose ribs to achieve it. It's ridiculous. The women all want to be double zero's with large breasts and the men want hairless chests. Nature just isn't like that.

Can't we just deal with each other as we're born and be happy? I'm a great lover of aesthetics, and probably admire beautiful people more than most, but we're to the point that people are torturing and deforming themselves for no good reason. Some of us are more beautiful than others. Most of us didn't win the genetic lottery. That doesn't make us bad people. It shouldn't make one less lovable or less worthy of good things.

Not everyone can achieve the hairless Hollywood ideal. Some people get very sick from shaving or waxing. It can cause infections, cuts and burns. I've yet to hear anyone mention the fact that the hair doesn't necessarily grow back the same way. I've known women who went from nice, normal curls to straight and wirey just from shaving once. Nor has anyone mentioned that you tend to lose pubic hair as you age, and you may be hastening that process. Luxuriant pubic hair is a sign of youth. Non-existent pubic hair is a sign of pre-adolescence. I agree with the people who find this akin to pedophilia.

I'd also like to know why the author doesn't mention breaking up with a guy that had the nerve to laugh at her in a sexual context. Do people expect so little civility in their lovers that they'll tolerate that? I know our entertainment teaches men to lie for sex, which is disgusting, so why not teach them to show enough class to lie when it might spare someone's feelings, once they've gotten what they wanted? We're out of control - people need to be a lot kinder to each other in every context, but particularly where issues of sex and attraction are concerned.

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Clean - not if you're immunocompromised
Posted by: anastasi on Jul 7, 2008 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was a medical case in Australia where a woman who was both diabetic and herpetic got the total Brazilian wax. All it took was a few bacteria, and YUCK!

Since everyone is talking about personal experience, I'll weigh in. Being a natural blonde, all I do is trim the hedges with an electric razor. I tried and failed with so many home wax kits that I need to go to a salon for professional treatment. As far as my mate's preference, just trimmed but not naked is all he needs.

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