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Sex and Relationships

What Are Bisexuals? Chopped Liver?

By Greta Christina, The Blowfish Blog. Posted May 2, 2008.


Our culture still ignores the full spectrum of sexual orientation -- and the shifts that many of us make over that spectrum throughout our lives.
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So there's this trope I sometimes see in monogamous relationships. (In particular, I see it in advice columns: it came up in a recent Savage Love column, and I've seen it more than once in the Dear Abby/ Ann Landers ouvre.)

It goes like this: "My partner has a friend. The friend's sexual orientation is towards the gender that my partner happens to be. Is it reasonable for me to be jealous? Should I permit this friendship to continue?"

(Or the reverse: "I have a friend. The friend's sexual orientation is towards my gender. Is it reasonable for my partner to be jealous, and to want the friendship to end?")

Okay. In trying to make this generic and gender-neutral, I'm being a little obscure. So let's clear it up and make it specific: "My wife has a new friend from work, a straight man she sometimes goes to basketball games with. Should I be jealous?" Or: "I'm a straight woman who's developing a friendship with a lesbian. My husband is jealous. WTF?" (Both real examples from real advice columns, btw. Dear Abby stupidly advised, "By no means should you permit your wife to attend basketball games with another man"; Dan Savage, much more wisely, suggested that the husband of the woman with the lesbian friend should get a first class ticket for the clue train.)

Now, I'm not going to get too deeply into the obvious. I'm not going to get into the craziness of the idea that any and all friendships will eventually turn sexual if the sexual orientations line up right. I'm not going to get into the fucked-upedness of the notion that people should choose their friends entirely on the basis of gender, for the sole purpose of avoiding possible sexual attraction. I'm not going to get into the absurd paranoia that even the slightest hint of sexual attraction in a friendship will eventually overwhelm it with uncontrollable passion. (Hey, for some of us, having a little attraction for a friend makes a friendship more interesting, even when we have no plans whatsoever to act on the attraction, ever.)

And I'm not going to point out that, according to this theory, gay men could never have gay male friends, and lesbians could never be friends with other lesbians.

I'm not even going to get into the borderline-evil concept that people in relationships have veto power over their partners' friends. This is just R-O-N-G Rong, stupidly and evilly wrong, in all but the most extreme circumstances. ("My partner is making friends with the man who tried to murder me." Okay, you have veto power. Everyone else, shut up. Your partner is a free agent, with the right to make their own damn friends independent of you.)

Here's what I want to say instead:

So what are we bisexuals -- chopped liver?

According to this theory, bisexuals could never, ever have any friends at all. We couldn't be friends with gay men, straight men, straight women, lesbians. And we definitely couldn't be friends with other bisexuals. According to this theory, the fact that we're attracted to both women and men makes us ineligible to be friends with anybody, of any gender, ever.


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It's not that...
Posted by: maestra on May 2, 2008 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...it's the imposed monogamy culture and the heavy price you pay if you deviate (i.e. have perfectly natural feelings or impulses...)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It's not that... Posted by: cherylsass123
» RE: It's not that... Posted by: maestra
Let's at least look at what other animals do
Posted by: akai ringo on May 2, 2008 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All I can suggest, as I may have suggested before in these columns, is that we look at what other animals do. As Dr. Bruce Baemihl points out in his excellently reseaarched and very well-documented book, "Biological Exuberance; Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity", the animal kingdom covers the whole range of sexual orientation, including straight, gay, lesbian and bi, and seems to have no problems or hangups with this. It does not seem to me to be entirely logical that we should expect humans to be an exception. In fact, going by percentages, I would expect a rather higher percentage of humans to be homosexual or bi. But perhaps we have allowed natural instincts to be biased (perverted?) by cultural orientations.

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» That was a fascinating book Posted by: JLPearson
» One of my cats is gay Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
» or "THE OTHER" Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
Invisible bisexuality?
Posted by: Annarisse on May 2, 2008 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm. I expected this article to be about the increasing numbers of people who acknowledge their bisexuality but are in monogamous, usually hetereosexual marriages, and therefore don't show up on any statistics. We're the invisible bisexuals because many of us will never act on that side of our nature at all.

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» not necessarily Annarisse..... Posted by: David/Daoud
» Only men? What about trapped women? Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: False sense of bisexuality Posted by: DesertStone
» RE: False sense of bisexuality Posted by: 23skidoo
» RE: False sense of bisexuality Posted by: MatthewSavage
Choice isn't just about abortion
Posted by: hagwind on May 2, 2008 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's something the liberal feminists tend to ignore. Meanwhile the liberal gay men act as if sexual "orientation" is written in stone and no one has any choice at all. Crap on both their houses! The old Kinsey scale posited "1" as exclusively heterosexual and "6" as exclusively homosexual. That leaves an awful lot of us somewhere in between -- meaning we have at least some options at least some of the time. What we are is important (that's what identity politics is based on), but what we choose to do about it is even more so.

"Choice" isn't a simple matter of picking the blue door or the yellow door. It encompasses all the choices and non-choices that got us up to the doors.

I'm not a lesbian just because I'm attracted to women. I'm a lesbian because so far I've chosen not to act on any attraction to men -- true, my attractions to men have been few, mostly weak, and far between, but one of the reasons for that is that I'm not interested in being attracted to men or willing to be attracted to men. I've always said that I'd either wind up sleeping with or trying to murder anyone I drove cross-country with -- that's because intense proximity tends to cause sparks. Intense friendship can cause sparks too. Sparks don't have to lead to sex -- they can lead to, say, rock climbing or artistic collaboration -- but it can be hard to get the voices out of your head that are saying "Why doesn't s/he make a pass? Doesn't s/he think I'm attractive enough?" even though a pass is the last thing you want to deal with. Meanwhile the jealous one is thinking "If s/he thought I was attractive, s/he wouldn't need to be friends with so-and-so." It can easily turn into a big mess, but the mess doesn't have all that much to do with bisexuality.

If people choose to identify themselves as bisexual, that's fine with me. I do ask one thing, however: When you're dating or living with someone of the opposite sex, acknowledge that you're benefiting from the privileges that our heterosexist culture accords to heterosexuals, and don't expect me to drop everything I'm doing to defend your right to do it.

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» Expectations Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: Expectations Posted by: hagwind
» RE: expectations Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: expectations Posted by: hagwind
Invisible? Non-Existent?
Posted by: jmmartin on May 2, 2008 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gore Vidal, who is openly gay, once said, "There are no bisexuals. There are only uncommitted homosexuals." As he belonged to the generation of Rock Hudson and Boys in the Band (one of whose characters observes, "Show me a happy homosexual and I'll show you a corpse"), Vidal might have had an ulterior motive; misery loves company. But there are bisexuals, plenty of them.

Some gays, and perhaps lesbians, too, downplay the very existence of bisexuals. In an influential essay, "Refugees from Amerika: A Gay Manifesto," (May, 1969), the late Carl Wittman shunned those who called themselves "bi" because, as he saw it, taking that label was (in the parlance of the times), a cop out. It signaled the straight world, "I may go for my own sex, but I also go for the opposite sex," which carries an inherent, "I'm better than a homosexual."

But in the post-liberation world today, it should be a bit easier for gays and lesbians to acknowledge the legitimacy of bi's. Orientation is something you do. If a man marries to "hide" his true feelings in an effort to conform, he may yet be bisexual rather than gay. Still, though, bisexuals face prejudice from both gays and straights. It's time everyone acknowledged that sexual orientation is not something produced with cookie cutter regularity. It's a spectrum -- a rainbow, if you like -- with an infinite variety of "types," or colors and shades.

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» RE: Invisible? Non-Existent? Posted by: phredrika
» RE: Invisible? Non-Existent? Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan
I find it amazing
Posted by: dsmidiman on May 2, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the analogies used to "justify" or somehow make "normal" any certain sexual orientation or behavior seems a bit "out there" to me. Example: animals have and practice the whole spectrum of sexual orientation therefore why not humans" seems a bit absurd to me. Animals also eat their young in some instances. Animals also run around pissing and craping on every piece of real estate they can to "mark" thier territory and savagely fight with any other animal that tries to do the same. Does this mean that homosexuality, bi-sexuality etc. is wrong? Of course not but it has nothing to do with whether animals practice it or not. If we are going to use the behavior of animals as a guideline to what is and isn't acceptable/normal for humans we are in a world of hurt.

I also think that many of us are so easily influenced by what is put in front of us through the media etc. as being "mainstream" or normal behavior has a lot to do with why we see and hear so much about different sexual orientations in our society today. There is no doubt that alot of people have experimented with bi-sexuality or homosexuality simply because it has been so prevalent in our lives these days. Some actor/actress does it so it must be exciting and the "thing to do". You read about it and hear about it all the time so if your gonna be "cutting edge" and cool guess you gotta be doing it too.

In the case of relationships where one partner developes a friendship with someone that happens to be gay, or lesbian or bi-sexual and the other partner becomes concerned about it can become an issue and understandably so if there isn't good communication between the two partners. Jealousy can be an evil evil energy and sadly has destroyed many many relationships. There is no doubt that jealousy stems from mostly insecurity on the behalf of the jealous one. Does this mean that the partner engaging in the behavior that is making the other partner jealous needs to stop doing whatever it is that is making the other one jealous? Absolutely not!!! But unfortunately more often than not the partner making the other partner jealous simply assumes that the jealous one is trying to "control" them or something and therefore must not really care about them or have thier best interests in mind. The whole thing then turns into this pissing match where both partners feel threatened, both feel like the other one does not really love respect the other and the whole mess just gets way out of control and more often than not ends in disaster.

If your partner comes to you with a problem they are having about feeling insecure about standing up in front of his/her colleages and making a speech at work you don't simply dismiss them for being insecure and weak and try to make them feel even worse. If you truely love and care about them you try to understand why they feel that insecurity and fear and try to find ways to help them work through it using love compassion and support. Does it mean that you have to agree with them and somehow change your own way of thinking or doing to accomodate them? Absolutely not!!! Are there exceptions to this? Are there partners out there that truely are just obsessive control freaks, unfortunately yes but I truely believe that in most cases it is not the case.

In my 53 years of existence I think the most important thing about life I have learned is that understanding and compassion for all is the key to success in life. Whether your talking about relationships between two people or a whole world of people. If we could just look for the good in things, be compassionate and accepting towards each other and let everyone be who and what they are without denying ourselves it would be a much better world. And the human race would last alot longer.

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» RE: I find it amazing Posted by: MelStL
» RE: I find it amazing Posted by: abido0
Safe Space in a Big World
Posted by: Survivor77 on May 2, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We know how to sort people into what categories - in large part - in accordance with what they are not. And we need to sort people into categories, in part, just to know who we are and how to interact with others. The challenge regarding bisexuals (and for that matter inter-sexed, trans folks, etc.) is that what they are not is an empty space. Gays are not straight. Heteros are not gay. Bis are not.....what? It is the binary that is the problem, of course.

Now, having noted that, I will reveal that I am a lesbian and I don't date bisexuals. For me, the quality of being overwhelmingly and exclusively attracted to women is - in and of itself - a quality to which I am attracted. I'm simply not attracted to women who have attractions to men. I like men, have many important men in my life, but not in the realm of romance or sex. However, I would never think to try to control my partner's social life; hers is not my life to control.

The world is big enough to hold us all. The question is, are we big enough to create safe space for all of this diversity.....

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» Not an empty space Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: Not an empty space Posted by: Survivor77
bisexuals are more spiritually evolved
Posted by: thealltheone on May 2, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am straight with many gay and bi sexual friends. None of us have a problem. There are more bisexuals popping up more and more, expecially in the 28 year old and under range. I beleive they are more evolved spiritually. They do not care about gender at all, they fall in love with the person not the gender. They do not have the hang ups that gay people grew up with. They are comfortable with themselves and free to be themselves. I see no problem with it. not all friends think about having sex with each other, anymore than gay people are out to get in bed with their straight friends. bisexuals transend gender. All of us have both genes. There are tom boys who are straight, there are men in touch with their female sides and not gay, there are very manly men who are gay, there are so many types of people why does gender have to play any role? we should be accepting of all people, period! Be individuals and judge no one, for what they do behind closed doors, if they are consenting adults?

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Here's how I describe it
Posted by: twoten on May 2, 2008 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the nature versus nurture way of looking at a person's perceived sexual orientation, I say:

Evolution provides the vocabulary but we write the sentences.

You can use that if you want and take credit for it yourself!

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» RE: Here's how I describe it Posted by: Survivor77
Correct me if I'm wrong, but
Posted by: JimmyVaughan on May 2, 2008 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a female friend of mine explained to me that women tend to be bisexual.

If this is true, bisexuality is quite a bit more common than one would expect.

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» there are films on the subject Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
no such thing
Posted by: DesertStone on May 2, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really no one is bisexual that’s why when I watched last seasons Tiela Tequila I knew she would pick Bobby.

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» oh, mtv provides yr "truth"? Posted by: johnclark
» RE: oh, mtv provides yr "truth"? Posted by: DesertStone
» RE: no such thing Posted by: Livemike
Nice Rant
Posted by: Phenix on May 2, 2008 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is certainly a great rant. A lot of my girl friends are bisexual. My one friend is in a lesbian relationship but we had hooked up a month prior to her meeting her new partner. So I smile a bit when she claims the lesbian card.

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Expectations
Posted by: sweet_byrd on May 2, 2008 3:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"and don't expect me to drop everything I'm doing to defend your right to do it"

I certainly don't expect you to drop everything and defend that right. But I would like to be able to expect that people will recognize that I haven't amputated part of my psyche just because I'm with one type of partner or other. I don't magically turn hetero when I date a man, nor do I become a lesbian when I date a woman. Please recognize that my sexuality is not determined by the people I date -- and that it is a legitimate part of me.

Please also recognize that, whatever privilege I might be the recipient of, I am not courting it. I do not date men in order to partake of hetero privilege, and when people imply so, I am deeply offended. That society grants this favorable treatment to me in certain situations but not in others highlights how deeply screwed up society is. And few people are in a better position to know --from firsthand experience -- the differences between being "treated as straight" and being "treated as queer". I have been beat up too many times for "being a dyke" for me to tolerate being accused of "not getting" what a poor opinion that society at large has of same-sex couples. And if I could erase that dichotomy, you can bet the rent that I would.

Here's the bottom line; you don't have to defend my right to date (and marry) according to my orientation, but don't attack me or assume that my orientation is defined by the gender of my partner. Don't assume that I'm "really" gay, and just copping out, or "really" straight and just trying to titillate my boyfriend. Don't accuse me of "betraying" anyone or anything just because I'm bisexual. Don't think that I like the privilege situation any more than you do, and don't think for even a moment that I wouldn't change things if I could.

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» RE: xpectations Posted by: Survivor77
» RE: xpectations Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: xpectations Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: xpectations Posted by: maestra
» RE: xpectations Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: xpectations Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: xpectations Posted by: HoboHomo
Enjoy relationships while you can -- no matter what kind of sexual orientation.
Posted by: HughScott on May 2, 2008 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been married to the same woman almost 50 years. During surgery last year for a blocked carotid artery, she suffered a stroke that paralized her arms and legs.

Since then, Jean has made a slow but steady recovery. Now, however, she needs another operation to prevent a second, possibly fatal stroke. Consequently, as you might imagine, every second we have together is precious.

I don't care if you're straight, gay or bisexual, make ever moment with your partner count.

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an honest answer: they aren't chopped liver, they are between .1 and .001% of the population...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on May 2, 2008 10:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and deserve to be treated equally, as everyone else, under our laws.

No special attention is due as a result of volume. Sorry.

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» Two ways to lie: Posted by: ABetterFuture
I 'heart' debunking myths
Posted by: realmuzik on May 3, 2008 2:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mainstream media would love for the idyllic heterosexual world to believe that GLBTs are only insatiable, orgiastic perverts and pedophiles- that we have 24/7 sex, sex, sex and sex is all that's on our minds 24/7. Nothing can be further from the REAL LIVES of GLBTs. The mainstream would be very, very surprised to learn of how many GLBT couples/partners are living the lives of so-called "Cleaver families," (Think "Leave it To Beaver"). They are not necessarily Bible-thumpers, either. GLBTs have to live and get by with their daily livelihoods in the "assimilated" heterosexual mainstream world like it or not, with or without marital benefits. Does that mean devoting time for having sex 24/7, or even a committed relationship for many cases? I think not. For me, I'm a "commitment-phobe" and proud of it.

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» RE: I 'heart' debunking myths Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: I 'heart' debunking myths Posted by: HoboHomo
Brilliant
Posted by: CitizenInMedia on May 3, 2008 1:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Superb. I am bookmarking this in my collection of articles I want to reread again. Thank you.

I simply would want to expand something underlying to the beginning spark of the article. Jealousy. Or as it is more correctly dubbed: possessiveness. Possessiveness is simply another way of objectifying each other.

We need to stop treating each other as threats to what is "ours" and start treating each other as people.

And I hadn't thought of it before in this way, but bisexuality is an effective way to show the idiocy of such jealously based on gender or sexuality for that matter.

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Baseness and egotistical human nature...
Posted by: Smartcookie on May 3, 2008 4:06 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... Homosexual, bisexual, hetero... who cares? Just because you wish your lifestyle was more accepted and you had a larger potential pool of partners does not mean everyone see's things the way you do. This is about ego inflation and making the world into the place you dream of living in, but this is totally idealistic and nonsensical.

I'm hetero and I know it, I find homosexuality repulsive by nature. I couldn't do it, since it's not a part of my identity. It makes me want to throw up, with no cultural conditioning required. I imagine it's a matter of evolution why such biases exist. I'm just not attracted to my sex, is THAT OK?

I really wish people would stop harping on 'marriage' and hetero's, there's lots of stupid people out there of all orientations which we do/don't like, the fact is the mature people (no matter your orientation). Know all this harping about sexuality has to do with immature people, they lament their own as they do others and just wish people would grow the heck up.

The greeks were basically correct in that there were basically 3 types, Female-female, male-male, male-female, and the bi's.

They described it as one looking for ones 'other half(s)'.

So someone doesn't accept your lifestyle? Boohoo, go study biology and evolution, the animal kingdom isn't a justification for your sexuality, otherwise we could justify rape, beastiality, incest, and underage sex.

Do you want to legalize those? Afterall animals do it without hesitation, we should 'be more like the animals'. Give me a break, the fact that we share parts of our heritage with the animal kingdom doesn't mean we are not worlds apart cognitively in many ways.

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What is this doing here?
Posted by: JesseBC on May 5, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great blog post, but what's it doing in an online magazine?

Who the hell is Greta Christina and why should we care what she says on her blog?

What's next? Some 6th-grader's MySpace page?

This doesn't even count as an editorial because it has no point. The teaser says it's going to be about how we shift across the spectrum of sexual orientation throughout our lives...ok, agreed...

But she spends the first page addressing non-existent charges that partnered bisexuals shouldn't have any friends.

Then she spends the second page saying bisexuals are invisible, but doing nothing to substantiate the point.

There's nothing in here about the spectrum of sexual orientation.

There's nothing in here about the fluidity of sexual orientation.

There's not even any real discussion of how or why bisexuals are invisible or their existence denied.

Dropping Kinsey's name doesn't count as a reference. Which means this contains no citations, no interviews, and no research.

This is just...some random person's musings. Which is what blogs are for.

This wouldn't be published by the most desperate rag in the country.

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"Is sexual orientation a choice?"
Posted by: Counsel on May 19, 2008 12:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, it may be for some.

At the same time, it may be hormonal or environmental.

"Let me Explain. No, there is too much, let me sum up..."

I know a girl who is beautiful, wonderful, funny, and dated only guys for many years--most of which ended by them using her sexually and "dumping" her quite rudely. While she may have been "innocent" or naive in some manner, she then started looking at "options."

She worked in dance, and knew many gay and lesbian people who could sympathize--and before you go and say "these people" prey on others who are fragile, know that there are all types that prey.

Anyway, she found a girl who seemed to be different that the "guys" and wanted "different things" -- less interested in a quick score and more interested in her and her story.

She tried the life out and it wasn't for her. not because the "sex" feels different--If you were blind-folded and pleased, are you so sure you could tell which touch was from a man or a woman? I doubt it...

Therefore, it is the perception or the "desired" item that determines orientation. Could that be determined by choice? Sure. It could also be determined by a "rude" parent that you did not like or a person who violated you and your trust. I think it can be one or a combination of these things that can determine your orientation.

What is right for you should not affect anyone else. If people are critical of your choice, it is due to feelings they experience because you made certain choices--this is something wrong with them, not you...

The movie Hitch, with Will Smith, is a great movie. Interest in a person comes from your behavior with them--being that it is what they are looking for. Some people look for a relationship and generally want someone who listens and sympathizes, but others want sex and only look for "options"--whatever it is that turns them on.

What people do to be happy is outside of my scope of concern so long as it does not involve children, those unable to think/fend for themselves, or hurt (physically or emotionally) others.

Life is short, be happy!

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