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Sex and Relationships

Without Ceremony: How I've Managed to Avoid Getting Married for Forty Years

By Lisa Gabriele, Nerve.com. Posted May 1, 2008.


For an institution associated with a 50 percent failure rate and bad sex, marriage still has surprisingly many takers -- not me.
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A little over ninety years ago, British philosopher Bertrand Russell delivered a famous lecture called "Why I Am Not A Christian," in which he rejected God, Christianity and the notion that only religion produces truly moral people.

Russell wasn't against the idea of love or humanism, nor did he argue that those who sought solace in some kind of god should be deprived of the right to do so. He simply felt that religion wasn't the best way to learn how to be good. In fact, he argued, it was one of the worst. Yet nearly a century later, people still flock to religion for its promise of self-fulfillment, just as they flock to a related institution, marriage, which also promises fulfillment and seems equally indestructible, despite its embarrassing failure rate, anachronistic qualities and implied sexlessness.

A big fat wedding will still fill a movie theater, just as a big fat sermon still puts asses in the pews. Rabid brides remain popular TV characters on par with home renovators and homosexuals.

I won't argue the myriad ways in which marriage as an institution is old, tired and obsolete. That's an old, tired, obsolete argument. But at forty, I'm tired of evading that perennial question: Why have your siblings and every single one of your three-dozen cousins been married and not you? I can't use a broken home as an excuse -- my brothers and sisters, raised under the same awful marriage, practically sprinted down the aisles in their twenties; two remain happily married. Nor is it true that I haven't met The One. I've met plenty of The Ones, so many that my sister took to calling my boyfriends The Two, The Three, etc. Counting the last boyfriend, we left off at The Eight.

Truth is, I was afraid, not just of marrying the wrong man at the right time, or marrying the right man at the wrong time. Most people have those fears. My fear was about how malleable, how changeable I was. I was afraid of permanency because I didn't know who I'd be a week, a month, a year from the big day. And though the men who loved me were stellar, I can't say the same for the men I loved. I still assumed one would show up in time to eliminate all those fears. He'd pin me down in a fixed point in time: after college, after I got settled in my career, after I bought a condo, lost ten pounds, went blonde, wrote a book, saved money, got a dog.

Part of the problem was that I was drunk for the better part of the two decades most women spend looking for an appropriate partner.

I was drawn to increasingly blurry guys: brats and posers, glowering self-loathers, the last ones to leave the party. Since quitting the booze years ago, I have discovered that, with rare exception, real love did whatever it could to avoid getting tangled up with a drunk girl drenched in fear. Lust stuck around for a while -- years, even. But true love, the kind that evolves into sturdy amity, took a walk a while ago.

I can't blame booze entirely. Lots of party girls got married. I went to their weddings. Even the trailer for the upcoming Sex and the City movie implies Carrie Bradshaw will smug down the aisle. But it was another HBO series that helped me understand why marriage remains attractive, even to the chickens. The ten-part series Tell Me You Love Me, just released on DVD, skips the predictable confection of the wedding to expose the hidden decay of neglected marriages. I assumed the series would feature miserable couples bemoaning their arid relationships, envying single folks their magnificent freedom. And we do meet such couples, each in various crises of faith. But during their therapy sessions, we get to see how the abject pain of intimacy brings them thisclose to sloughing off their troublesome spouses so they can lather, rinse, repeat the same sad issues with yet another partner -- or how it brings them thisclose to total transformation. I found myself rooting for transformation.

Of all the show's couples, the one I truly fell in love with is glowering Hugo (my type) and party girl Jamie (er, my twenties). Their entire courtship -- the fuckfests, the fighting, the breakups, the booze, the drugs, the makeup sex -- are all pit stops to the inevitable altar. They know they're doomed; Hugo even tells Jamie he felt like he was "detoxing" after yet another breakup. Still, the first season ends with their quickie ceremony, the camera capturing their stunned expression. For me, watching this episode was like reliving those years in high def, with an alternate ending.

A couple months ago Lori Gottlieb wrote a much-forwarded article called "Marry Him!" in The Atlantic. It was subtitled, "The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough." Gottlieb is a single mother of a sperm-donor child. Her theory: baby first while there's time, love of my life later. In classic Carrie Bradshaw-esque rhetoric Gottlieb asks: Is it better to be alone, or to settle? The answer, according to her: settle.

That's right. Don't worry about passion or intense connection. Don't nix a guy based on his annoying habit of yelling "Bravo!" in movie theaters. Overlook his halitosis or abysmal sense of aesthetics. Because if you want to have the infrastructure in place to have a family, settling is the way to go ... Marriage isn't a passion-fest; it's more like a partnership formed to run a very small, mundane, and often boring nonprofit business. And I mean this in a good way.
It's a funny, forthcoming essay, but I wish Gottlieb had elaborated on her evident fearlessness instead of tossing crappy advice over her shoulder to younger women. Settle. Go for good enough, she tells them, failing to mention that settling requires the awful ability to lie to yourself, which, in my experience takes a lot of work (and drinking) to pull off. I couldn't do it, though I tried, bending every hapless boyfriend I dragged home into the shape of Mr. Right.

For me, it's been awhile since the aunties asked that perennial question: why are you not married? I still don't have a good answer. But I do know that the better question is: how did I manage to avoid it? Smarts had nothing to do with it. I was certainly stupid enough. I had the potential to run fast down that aisle, like Jamie and Hugo, before sober second thoughts settled in, before I started to question my motives: Do I actually love this guy, or is he a prize I have won? Am I marrying him to say I got picked? Because this is what people do? So I won't be pitied or scorned? Am I seriously considering spending the rest of my life with this guy, or do I know in the back of my mind that this will end, but that at least I will have been married?

Bertrand Russell wrote, "Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown ... the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes." Today, most couples I know have turned their backs on God and religion. In fact, the last time they saw the inside of a church was probably the day they got married. But when you have no religion, no god, no spiritual practice to turn to for comfort, it's easy to turn your relationship into your altar, to give it the power to heal you, transform you and save you. That's why most relationships crack under pressure, I think -- they're not built to fix us. We're supposed to fix them. If Russell is right that religion is the last place to go to if you're looking for God, then perhaps marriage is the last place to go to if you're looking for love.

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See more stories tagged with: gender, women, marriage, men, relationships, sexuality

Lisa Gabriele is the author of Tempting Faith DiNapoli. Her second novel, The Almost Archer Sisters, will be published in the fall 2008. She lives in Toronto.

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Where's how you did it
Posted by: GPFrank on May 1, 2008 3:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see the headline: but where's the rest; of how you avoided it? By just saying no?

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» to be or to marry Posted by: LouisLouis
» All her comments are good. Posted by: Artkansas
Wrong?
Posted by: andrushka on May 1, 2008 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something wrong with Alternet today today? Already two articles that lead to nowhere.

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» RE: Wrong? Posted by: Agki
The continuing decline of marriage in the UK
Posted by: akai ringo on May 1, 2008 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have commented briefly on the (non-existent) article on pot smoking, so if I may be permitted to do the same with this (also non-existent) piece, while I don't have statistics from the US, the latest position, as I understand it, from the UK, is that marriage continues to decline, while cohabitation is rising. Various forms of civil union are now recognized, and since the stigma that was once attached to being born out of wedlock has long since disappeared, the question of whether or not to marry has become one of individual choice. Eminently sensible, it seems to me. I shall look forward to reading the article itself tomorrow morning, Japan time, and perhaps to learning how the US view differs.

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Marriage Is The Date From Hell
Posted by: left_libertarian on May 1, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That seems to never end.

I've been on many dates, some seemed like hell, others were OK, but at least they had an end.


Thankfully, I never married.

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The loneliness of a bad marriage
Posted by: BST on May 1, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I married long ago and can say with conviction that the years after comprised the loneliest time of my life, trying to read between the many pauses of a spouse who was clearly stunned by disappointments of his family of origin, unwilling or incapable of connecting in ways that might have built intimacy.

My initial error was in reading his silence as mystery and intrigue during the courtship period when it's so easy to project onto an object all our own reflections and desires.

My unusual background is this: I came from a happy family.

I didn't recognize the danger signs of bad parenting because I'd not experienced it.

My advice would be look for someone whose background is like yours. I'm not at all sure the skews match up well. Other people, I'm sure, will disagree and I respect those views.

We had a child, now an adult, who is capable and bright. But my one wish for this wonderful person would have been other parents, parents like my own who created a happy home. A bad marriage and/or divorce is an injustice to children who deserve better.

Since my divorce, I've engaged with three wonderful men (not all at once!!) but I, now jaundiced by my marriage experience, entered those relationships with too much knowledge of what can go wrong. Proposals were only fraught with the possibility of another round of pain.

That's my issue and only I can deal with it. The way I do is by saying "I don't." But I remember with fondness the mother and father who created an atmosphere for me, as a child, of respect, wonder and love. They rocked!

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Abolish marriage, establish paternity
Posted by: janvdb on May 1, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The core purpose of marriage is to channel the resources of fathers to their children.

Women have gotten caught in the crossfire.

The best thing that could happen to women and children (and the economy) would be for the government to emulate several European countries where "child support" collection is thorough, use DNA technology and establish a system whereby the channeling of fathers' resources to their children would happen regardless of the sexual coupling or decoupling happening in the next room.

This would remove the true social work done by marriage and allow us adults to be free without damaging children.

I suggest that every child born be linked by DNA to his father. The new Social Security # would be linked to the father's SS# so that unless the father was claiming the child as a deduction (he was full-time custodial) his taxes would increase by, say, $5000 to $8000 per year.

This money would be released to an account linking to the child's SS# which would be managed by the child's closest government day care center (expand all elementary schools downward 6 years) and used to pay the costs of all-inclusive, two-shift, all-meals daycare. The accounts could also be used to provide medical insurance, clothes, school costs and eventually, if possible, higher education costs. Anything not used would be released to the child at age 21.

The mothers would get nothing (in cash directly.)

This transfer would be the same regardless of how fractious the couple were, thereby protecting children from the vagaries of adult sexual sparring. Children should not be dependent on the abilities of their mothers to wheedle resources from their fathers using relationships and sex.

Then, we adults could get on with being "adults" with regard to our sex lives, ha ha ha

Which we are, by god, going to do anyway, you know as well as I do, so let's get the kids out of it, at least as far as the provision of basic necessities like daycare, food, clothing and education.

Jan VanDenBerg

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» Sex (for men) as "Gotchya!" Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Women create children Posted by: Beste
» RE: Good idea, but ... Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Toldya so Posted by: Crazy H
» GREAT IDEA! Posted by: asilsfable
» RE: GREAT IDEA! :) Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: GREAT IDEA! :) Posted by: camanokat
» RE: GREAT IDEA! :) Posted by: Crazy H
I HATED Marriage
Posted by: Gravitas on May 1, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hated being married, but I would not condemn the intstitution. It is right for some, wrong for others. For my own personal experience, it brought out the worst in me and my partner. Whenever I get scared of my economic circumstances I briefly think well maybe I could find someone who is not so bad. But then I think of the little things like listening to someone slurp their coffee, or having to share a bed every single night and I get hives just thinking about it!!!

I think we a a society are regressing with shows like Bulging Brides. What a cheap, tacky piece of garbage!

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» RE: I HATED Marriage Posted by: notmom
Devil's Advocate
Posted by: jlan on May 1, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's interesting that while most statistics and stereotypes are recognized as questionable and biased, the 50% divorce rate and "bad sex" warnings are dangled before us as sacred and inalienable truisms. I wonder why? Could it be because we accept these "facts" unquestionably and just assume that marriage will inevitably fail and dry us up along the way? Is the Pied Piper playing "Here comes the bride," leading us all to certain failure and a future without orgasm? Well, if that's what we truly believe then, yes, voila! you have your failed marriage.

But for those individuals who are intelligent enough to realize that marriage does not have to be defined, to recognize that marriage is a choice, not a mandate, and to fully embrace the idea that individuality can (shocker!) actually evolve and grow and improve alongside a partner who likewise will evolve and grow and improve as an individual, marriage crumbles as an institution and those "facts" become meaningless.

In our process of redefining that which 'everyone else tells us' is true, why do we continue to let others define what our marriage will be like?

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» RE: Devil's Advocate Posted by: notmom
» RE: Devil's Advocate Posted by: mviscid
tax breaks
Posted by: wittler youth on May 1, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
other than tax breaks...whats the point?..love?..i love hambergers but im not gonna marry one.

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» RE: tax breaks Posted by: kegbot1
Marriage isn't for everyone- and that's OK
Posted by: Farasien on May 1, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off, full disclosure- I'm a male in my 30's, happily married for 4 years.

When I was growing up, I didn't get 'the Script' preached to me as much as many others out there. Society has pushed the idea of 'the Script' very intensely for the last 3 or so generations (Script= go to school/get a job/get married/biy a house/have kids/retire/die). For some people, this way of life is a good, acceptable and attractive option, but it isn't for everybody. People who push this idea have to learn, and the sooner the better, that the 'family life' isn't the only way to live life, nor is it wrong, contemptable or piteous if you choose to opt out of any part of it. My wife and I chose child freedom and its shocking how much venom comes our way for not 'doing our part for society' for making that choice. It seems to me sometimes that people pressure others because they have a self-centered view of life, and what they have found for themselves, in their own opinion, is what's best for everyone. If we all just recognized that what is best for ourselves isn't best for everyone, I think the world would be a hell of alot better place.

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YOU DIDN'T AVOID MARRIAGE ALTOGETHER
Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 1, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You simply married the booze. Bertrand Russel's essay on religion has nothing to do with anything you're talking about. I'm not sure what the topic is. Are you bragging or complaining. ANNA

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What nonsense !
Posted by: maxpayne on May 1, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, I understand that divorce rates in America, Europe, and elsewhere have increased. However, to just lecture us about the need to not get married is PURE BULLSHIT. What you need to do is find the missing education your schools and the media won't tell you. As a matter of fact, the author FAILS to point out that the media trash that most people are seducted into actually promotes bad relationships and the so-called "family values" bullshitters on the "right" actually allowed the marriage decay to go on all in the name of "deregulation" and "free" market media. Reform the media and the privatized miseducation system and the divorce/bad marriage rates will decrease.

And turn off your television if you want to maintain a healthy relationship. My wife and I cut down tv watching since 2004 and so far no regrets except we wish that we had done it earlier to avoid health problems and stress.

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» RE: What nonsense ! Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: What nonsense ! Posted by: jlan
» RE: What nonsense ! Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: What nonsense ! Posted by: maxpayne
You missed a major economic windfall
Posted by: eeezzz on May 1, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once you tie a guy down, especially if you pop-out a kid or two - half of his income and resources are yours. You can get up to 23 years of his life on the kids, and if you space them out a couple of years - more. You can get half his assets at the divorce settlement and if you are savvy enough to have "settled" wisely to begin with, spousal support galore. Cars, houses, and easy street go to women who are wise enough to "settle" with the "right" guy (eg: "good provider"). Really smart women who pace themselves can carry this off two or three times! Choose carefully and get a good attorney in advance - ask around to be sure that they get the best settlements. Then do what you have to do to bag "the one!" It's not a committment, it's a business transaction.

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» RE: You missed a major economic windfall Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: HistArch Posted by: Dboy
» RE: HistArch Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: HistArch Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» RE: HistArch Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: HistArch Posted by: JimmyVaughan
Easy Choice
Posted by: Sunfell on May 1, 2008 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For me, the decision to not marry was very simple and easy. I asked myself the question people rarely ask: Will I be better off with or without a spouse?

For me, the answer was 'without'. I'm a solitary person. I don't like people underfoot. "Love" is a chemical addiction, a biological hormone storm meant to keep people together long enough to have kids.

I didn't want kids. I stuck to my guns. Today, I am single and happy. No exes, no kids, no fights in court over support...

Marriage is a trap. Stay out of it. And whatever you do, don't 'settle'.

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» RE: asy Choice Posted by: jennyanne
After having made my mistakes
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on May 1, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I long ago realized that I am not one to be in a "committed"/serious relationship.
I am a single man who is happy & comfortable with the life I have built for myself.

I once was in a conversation with a breeder wife and told her that I have never wanted children.
She began to attempt to tell me all that I was missing.
I looked at her husband and, he got the message and told her to shut up.
I am missing absolutely NOTHING.

These types of "relationships" are not for everyone.

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The problem isn't marriage
Posted by: crashgrab on May 1, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my opinion marriage isn't the problem. The society that forces marriage on people is the problem. Marriage isn't for everyone and even if it's right for you sometimes you have to wait for the right time.

As a woman, I feel very lucky to have parents who cared less if I married or had kids. At the age of 30, six years after I started living with my boyfriend, I decided I wanted to marry him and I proposed. Now at the age of 33 we still have no children and may not ever have them.

I think there's also a lot of truth that people expect their partners, married or not, to fulfill all their needs. That fantasy only gets worse when most people get married. I have to agree with the writer that pressures like these cause marriages to self-combust.

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progressive positions on these kinds of issues
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on May 1, 2008 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cause progressive candidates to lose votes from the middle americans they stand to help the most, and it gives credence to the right wing's conjectures that the left is "anti-family, anti- marriage, anti-what the fuck ever"


I'm not looking forward to a McCain presidency, but it's this kind of dumb shit that will get him elected.

Seems like every week alternet has one of these articles that celebrates promiscuity and infidelity, and everyone applauds.

Just because YOU sucked at picking a spouse doesn't make marriage inherently bad.

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Well, while you're not marrying and having kids
Posted by: arclight7 on May 1, 2008 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
immigrants are having litters of them. Soon you won't recognize your country.

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» So Join the FLDS, Girls. Posted by: PaulK
I Don't Like "Mating in Captivity"
Posted by: Libertine on May 1, 2008 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like to come and go as I please. I prefer to be a free agent sexually and emotionally, and I don't want anyone knowing all my business. I'm not the slightest bit monogamous, nor do I have the slightest desire to limit myself sexually to one person. So, legal marriage as it is currently define would be a poor fit for me.

Nor do I see any need to inform the government whom I'm sleeping with and I don't think it's their place to tell any adult who or how many people they may officially/legally be married to.

And I don't think one should need to get a license to make their personal relationships legal in the same way that I have to get a license to drive a car or to go fishing.

I believe in the separation of marriage and state and that the government should get out of everyone's bedroom.

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I didn't want to marry
Posted by: PaulK on May 1, 2008 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My world was ready to go down in a global thermonuclear war. Our government had pretty much broken covenant with its people. I didn't want to save for retirement. I didn't want kids. I didn't want to support a wife. I wanted to work on the country's and the world's suffering.

I apologize to my girlfriends, the lovers who recognized something useful in me. I think one didn't care if she had a baby with me, maybe she'd get lucky and I'd marry her. Others were more honorable but still hopeful. Maybe they were thinking of marriage someday, and kids. I was a reasonably kind young man, maybe with good earning potential, but I had my own agenda.

After many years, I married an activist. We created no kids together. She has grown kids.

We're both stubborn and still fight sometimes. That part is hard. At most other times we're physically affectionate, although we don't have much sex, typically due to exhaustion.

I did the right things. I want my country and world to live. As a second choice, I want to love one person.

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» RE: I didn't want to marry Posted by: kegbot1
Point Missed
Posted by: dockboy on May 1, 2008 11:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is fluff and silly. Marriage doesn't make one happy anymore than staying single does. I'm 45 and have never been married. However, unlike this writer, I'm not making excuses for remaining single, nor would I ridicule the institution. I have friends who have been married for twenty plus years, and are happily married still. I'm glad for them.

Happiness and contentment comes about because of you, and no one else. If you're avoiding marriage, you have serious issues. The secret, for me, is simply from not pursuing marriage rather than trying to avoid it. Oh, and masturbation helps.

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» Excellent points. Posted by: arclight7
Wow
Posted by: Dboy on May 1, 2008 12:46 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So by being an alcoholic you managed to keep all the good men away from you for 40 years. How fascinating.

dboy

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For the weak-minded
Posted by: nfamous on May 1, 2008 2:33 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jesse Ventura said that religion was for the weak-minded. I'm not sure what he meant by weak-minded but it sure sounds right to me. Marriage is also for the weak-minded. I think it's for people that are willing to give up a piece of themselves because they don't like it. I like all pieces of myself, the good and the bad. I refuse to relinquish part of myself to someone just so they will do the same for me.

Marriage was designed to support families but women don't need men's income these days. Marriage is also a social institution with benefits. Married people almost always fair better in the corporate workplace because it tells people that you're "normal". I believe men get married to get sex when they want it but from what I hear married men aren't getting that much sex from their wives aka live-in best female friend. That's all a spouse is: a friend you're having sex with. Of course after the kids it becomes a friend you're not having sex with.

For women I think it boils down to one thing and one thing only. They don't want to be alone when they get old because they know once they hit that 30 or 40 year mark most guys are looking at their daughters. Fear of being alone in old age is the same as fearing death and that is why I agree that marriage and religion are both opiates for the masses. I have no fear of death therefore I have no desire to marry.

What I do fear is getting divorced and paying alimony for the rest of my life to someone that treated me like shit for years while rarely getting to see my kid(s) because my ex wants to exact emotional revenge on me for all eternity. This is the part where all the women go "I would never do that!" Yeah.........right........

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» RE: For the weak-minded Posted by: CitizenInMedia
Bending/Settling
Posted by: AubreeAnn on May 1, 2008 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...settling requires the awful ability to lie to yourself..."

Settling implies acceptance for Mr. Imperfect. If you're lying to yourself to do it, you haven't settled, you've started fooling yourself.

"I couldn't do it, though I tried, bending every hapless boyfriend I dragged home..."

Again, how is "bending" the same as settling? I believe those are different things.

There's a bizarre lack of logic and, as far as I'm concerned, unnecessary use of the word 'fuckfest', in here. An unusually uneven article for Alternet.

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Terrible article and a dishonest author.
Posted by: JimmyVaughan on May 1, 2008 4:13 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, the author claims to have avoided "marriage for forty years", and then states, "But at forty".

Obviously, most American women are not allowed to marry until 18, so you've only managed to avoid marriage for 22 years, at most.

The author continues, "Part of the problem was that I was drunk for the better part of the two decades most women spend looking for an appropriate partner."

This is, arguably, the only statement of fact contained within the article. That said, one can draw a plethora of conclusions based upon that single statement.

You were "married"; however, not to a man, but to alcoholic beverages, socializing and self-indulgence on a grand scale.

Thus, I find your avoidance of "an institution associated with a 50 percent failure rate and bad sex" to ring hollow--not to mention untrue.

You are simply not marriage material, and your self-admitted lifestyle--to say nothing of your poor attitude and distinct lack of honesty with not only yourself, but your readers--is proof positive of my assertion.

The institution of marriage isn't the problem, your distinct lack of maturity, self-centered nature and inability to think logically make you unfit for the "institution" you disdain.

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I applaud Gabriele
Posted by: JesseBC on May 3, 2008 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been pretty critical of Alternet in my comments lately, but...lighten up. The tone of this was obviously intended to be rather flippant and consider the source. This came from Nerve.com, which is a pretty quirky site.

I applaud a woman who's willing to not only reject marriage, but to do so irreverently like this.

A few women are starting to publicly admit that they don't want children, but very few will cop to being repulsed by marriage.

We talk about choice all the time -- both in terms of women's lives and their reproduction.

But the stigma lingers that a woman who doesn't want kids is chemically deficient and selfish, while an unmarried woman is just too defective to attract a man.

And that's just what other WOMEN seem to think! Men have even less use for women who aren't interested in being wives and mothers.

Gabriele's only serious point here is very true: Too many women settle for lousy husbands because marriage is an expectation and they don't want to be pitied as a spinster.

Granted, I'm not as cynical about marriage as Lori Gottlieb, but women themselves don't seem to grasp that's it's possible to live a perfectly happy single life without male validation.

Laws have advanced in the Western world, but our mindset hasn't quite caught up yet and we still treat Her Wedding Day like the culmination of a woman's otherwise pathetic existence.

It's only when a woman gets married or gets pregnant that all her girlfriends squeal and throw her a party.

When we've achieved real choice, women and men will both take for granted that marriage or motherhood are just that: One life choice among many potentially fulfilling ones.

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Why must we waste our time?
Posted by: joe2171 on May 3, 2008 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow an article about a boozed up irresponsible women who can't find a decent man...why?

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Certified madness
Posted by: Kevin Straw on May 7, 2008 3:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There should be three marriage certificates: one for people who plight their troths forever, one for people who want to stay together but play around a little, and one for people who get drunk in Las Vegas and go from the bar to the registrar. Once you have sobered up (in any of these cases) you can have your certificate revalued up or down. The Las Vegas certificate can be exchanged down for six stamps on a Starbucks loyalty card.

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Are there no happy marriages?
Posted by: rem3864 on May 7, 2008 3:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I read the main article I felt primarily sadness. I also had the same feeling when I read the comments – most of them written by people who didn’t seem to have happy marriages. And so I thought: Am I really a rare exception? Am I among those lucky few who have found a real soul mate in their marriage? I certainly do not believe that the majority of the couples that stay together live a happy life. But I met people who after fifty years were as happy as we were with my wife and so I know I’m not an exception.
Yet, the name ‘wife’ cannot describe what she really was for me. She was my lover, my partner, my most trusted friend. And she was also the person who, when needed, she could offer me the comfort, tenderness and moral support of a sister.

In retrospect, I believe I have been incredibly lucky to find someone who in the course of almost 48 years offered me everything I ever wanted in a woman and became the most important person in my life.

We had few things in common but we knew how to complement each other although at first most of our friends felt that our marriage would not last more than a year. She used to laugh about that, telling our well intentioned friends that our lives would be very dull and boring if we had the same exact interests and ideas. At least, she was saying, we can argue passionately about almost everything.

She was 19 and I was 22 when we first fell in love with each other and we were still in love when she finally died in my arms a few months ago. Yet we had our disagreements and arguments and occasionally even fights. But nothing could destroy our bond and I do not regret a single moment of our life together.. My only regret is that our two sons seem to have abandoned the idea of ever being able to have a happy union based on what they see around compared to the model their mother and I offered them
RRM

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I understand completely
Posted by: jennyanne on May 11, 2008 12:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do agree with the author of the story but not for the same reasons. I believe that marriage is a partnership and I believe that many men/woman are incapable of going beyond the "sex" to actually stay together.

When I was young I looked to my family for role models, my grandparents who were old,fat and ugly due to living on the farm, raised 11 children and truly meant what they said when they said "till death do us part", regardless of how they looked, there was no vanity whatsoever. Now I look to my generation where things are a bit different. Dating these days is to be judged as if you are in some sort of pageant, a woman/man who has a weight problem or is simply not perfect or does not have alot of money/education does not really stand a chance in hell of finding that perfect someone, this applies to both men and woman.

The message that has been sent out to many is that marriage is liked a leased car, you get that perfect model, use it until its worn out and then trade it in for something new. Many people that I know do not wish to be used in this way. When a person goes to one of these dating sites the first thing they are asked is "what do you look like" and that sets the tone for whether or not this person will be interested in you. The whole process is vanity oriented and people should not be surprised when it doesn't work.

There's also the issue in marriage that woman still continue to do most of the household chores, this was ok back in the day when woman didn't have to work, but now it takes two incomes to support a family and woman are complaining that they are going home to their second full-time job.

I think when society starts realizing that marriage is a partnership and that it has less to do with outer beauty and more to do with the coming together of two people and their combined assets there will be more of a desire for people to partake in this institution, until then I am not a nurse or purse- you have to pay for those.

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