COMMENTS: 120
"Fag" Is Turning into a High School Insult for Any Guy Who Doesn't Play Football
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"I'm talking like sixth grade, I started being called a fag. Fifth grade I was called a fag. Third grade I was called a fag," seventeen-year-old *Ricky recounted as we sat at a plastic picnic table outside of a fast food restaurant in California's Sacramento delta region. Though he experienced this type of harassment throughout elementary and junior high school, Ricky said that the threats intensified as he entered *River High School.
At "all the schools the verbal part . . . the slang, 'the fag,' the 'fuckin' freak,' 'fucking fag,' all that stuff is all the same. But this is the only school that throws water bottles, throws rocks, and throws food." Harassment like this hounded him out of his school's homecoming football game. "Two guys started walking up to get tickets said, 'There's that fucking fag.'" During the game boys threw balloons and bottles at Ricky along with comments like, "What the fuck is that fag doing here? That fag has no right to be here."
While this singular event stands out as particularly hate filled, Ricky's story also illustrates the larger problems of homophobia and gender-based teasing in high school. Homophobic taunting is especially intense during adolescence, a time when sexuality and romance are at the fore of social life. For boys, and not just those who are branded as gay, walking through a hallway is like running a gauntlet of homophobic insults as their male classmates imitate effeminate men and hurl homophobic slurs. My book, Dude, You're a Fag: Masculinity and Sexuality in High School, examines this ubiquitous homophobia. During my year and a half of research at River High, I found that these comments, when coming from and directed at boys, often have as much to do with shoring up definitions of masculinity as they do with reinforcing notions of "normal" heterosexuality.
This is particularly true of the slur "fag." While the term "gay" is frequently used as a synonym for stupid, it lacks the gender loaded skew of the term "fag." Oftentimes when boys call someone a "fag" they simultaneously imitate effeminate men (in other words, behavior they consider to be "fag-like"). Their homophobic comments, jokes, and interactions, in a sense, serve to punish others into behaving in stereotypically masculine ways. Though homophobia is usually thought of as fear of same sex attraction, in high school, boys' homophobia is also about policing gendered norms.
At River High I saw and heard boys imitate effeminate behavior and hurl the word "fag" so frequently at one another that I came to call it a "fag discourse." Invoking this epithet and joking about "fags" were not just random incidents, but systemic and well accepted ways for teenage boys to communicate. Boys talked about others they considered to be "fags," made jokes about unmasculine mannerisms, imitated those mannerisms, and used the term to insult one another both jokingly and seriously. They lisped, pretended to lust after men, and drew laughs from primarily male onlookers. They frantically lobbed the epithet at one another, in a sort of compulsive name calling ritual. Because the "fag" slur is and isn't about sexual desire, both self-identified gay boys and heterosexual boys were subject to the label for failing at stereotypically masculine tasks or revealing, in any way, weakness or femininity.
Gendered Homophobia
When I asked boys at River High why they so frequently deployed the term and regularly imitated what they saw as unmasculine men, many readily answered that such homophobia was simply part of what it meant to be a teenage guy. *Keith explained, "I think guys are just homophobic." Regardless of assertions like these, their homophobia, for the most part, did not extend to girls. While *Jake told me that he didn't like gay people, he quickly added, "Lesbians, okay, that's good!" *Ray explained the seeming discrepancy to me: "To see two hot chicks banging bodies in a bed, that's like every guy's fantasy right there. It's the truth. I've heard it so many times."
What did the boys mean when they call another boy a "fag"? *Jeremy told me, "To call someone gay or fag is like the lowest thing you can call someone. Because that's like saying that you're nothing." Though many boys described the widespread acceptance of homophobia at their school, they also said the term "fag" did not necessarily have sexual implications. *Darnell told me, "It doesn't even have anything to do with being gay." Similarly *J.L. said, "Fag, seriously it has nothing to do with sexual preference at all. You could just be calling somebody an idiot, you know?" As *David put it, "Being gay is just a lifestyle. It's someone you choose to sleep with. You can still throw around a football and be gay." In other words, a guy could be gay so long as he acted sufficiently masculine.
When boys, straight or gay, didn't behave in a sufficiently masculine manner, they risked being hit with the "fag discourse." When I asked *Ben, "What kind of things do guys get called a fag for?" he answered, "Anything ... literally, anything. Like you were trying to turn a wrench the wrong way, 'Dude, you're such a fag.' Even if a piece of meat drops out of your sandwich, 'You fag!'" While Ben thought that a guy could be called a "fag" for "anything ... literally anything," specific behaviors, when enacted by most boys, almost always triggered a round of the discourse. Boys who exhibited stupidity, emotions, or incompetence; cared too much about clothing; touched another guy; or liked to dance were vulnerable to being labeled a "fag." However, given the extent of its deployment and the laundry list of behaviors that could get a boy in trouble, it is no wonder that Ben felt a boy could be called a "fag" for "anything." This range of risky behaviors made the specter of the "fag" a powerful disciplinary mechanism. It was fluid enough that boys policed their behaviors out of fear of being called a "fag" and definitive enough so that boys recognized unmasculine behaviors and strived to avoid them.
The "fag discourse" usually came in the form of teasing and jokes (although, as Ricky's experience illustrates, it also appeared as harassment undergirded by the threat of violence). Often the word itself wasn't even spoken. The image of a "fag" as an unmasculine man was so common among the teenage boys, they could initiate the discourse through humorous imitations or allusions. One day in auto-shop *Jay was rummaging through a junk-filled car in the parking lot. He poked his head out of the trunk and asked, "Where are *Craig and *Brian?" *Neil responded with "I think they are over there," pointing, then thrusting his hips and pulling his arms back and forth. The boys in auto shop laughed. Because the "fag discourse" was so familiar, the other boys immediately understood that Neil was indicating that Craig and Brian were having sex. In this case, something as innocent as being alone with another guy was enough to be teased.
Compared to Ricky's experience at the football game this discourse seems relatively mild and lighthearted. Both Craig and Brian were stereotypical masculine boys. They may have been labeled as "fags" because they were alone together, but odds are their classmates wouldn't throw water bottles at them. On the other hand, for boys who didn't consistently exhibit typical masculine behavior, River High was a dangerous place, as Ricky's experience shows. Because Ricky was a dancer, identified as gay, had a kind and gentle spirit, sometimes wore makeup, and sported shoulder length hair, he spent his days in school preparing for the next attack. He ended up dropping out of River High in part because of the rampant harassment he suffered and the administration's refusal to protect him.
Education and Legislation
This sort of homophobic- and gender-based teasing and harassment is not unique to River High. In the spring of 1999, the problems associated with adolescent masculinity captured the national spotlight when two teenage gunmen opened fire on students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. The shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, had been relentlessly teased for being "fags" or "gay," though neither boy identified as homosexual. In another case, several boys killed seventeen-year-old Gwen Araujo in the fall of 2002 in Fremont, California. She was savagely murdered after the boys she had sex with discovered she was biologically male.
Though these two incidents were unusual, many adolescent boys have been the victims of similar violence that never gets reported. Such boys' experiences are likely to mirror those of a teen named Aaron Yays, a New York middle-schooler. Aaron was teased mercilessly and suffered repeated beatings from other students for his interest in figure skating. As Aaron's experience indicates, even subtle gender transgressions make teenage boys susceptible to homophobic taunts, jokes, and violence. While teasing may be part of a normal American adolescent masculinity, the "fag discourse" carries with it the potential for physical violence not necessarily found in other milder sorts of adolescent verbal jockeying.
Parents, students, and legislators have started to address this sort of harassment. Defending their sons' rights to be free from homophobic slurs, parents have initiated lawsuits in order to protect boys who, for example, wear dresses, sport ponytails, or publicly identify as gay. Students have formed clubs such as Gay/Straight Alliances in order to support each other in their differences. California is one of the few states to take a proactive legislative approach to the problem of homophobic harassment in high school. The legislature passed the groundbreaking Assembly Bill 537, The California Student Safety and Violence Prevention Act, in 2000. This bill prohibits discrimination in schools based on perceived or actual sexual or gender identities. The District of Columbia, Maine, Minnesota, and New Jersey have also enacted laws that prohibit harassment and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in school.
Unfortunately, as Ricky's experience demonstrates, these laws are not always enforced. Boys' homophobic harassment, sex talk, and predatory behavior have become so normalized that oftentimes adults don't identify it as harassment. Parents, teachers, school administrators, and other people who work with youth need to recognize these behaviors and hold them accountable, rather than turn a blind eye to boys who hurl the "fag" epithet. It's not enough to reprimand or discipline a boy for calling someone a "fag." To simply punish students who are harassing other students without explaining larger issues of power and inequality leaves them confused, angry, and unsure of what they did wrong. As the late educator and activist Eric Rofes wrote, we need to make our schools "safe for sissies." In doing so we can make them safer places for all boys.
*Names have been changed.
C.J. Pascoe is a postdoctoral scholar at the Institute for the Study of Social Change at the University of California, Berkeley. Her recent book on gender and identity in high school, "Dude, You're a Fag: Masculinity and Sexuality in High School" was published by the University of California Press. Her current research project entitled Living Digital examines how teenagers navigate digital technology and how new media has become a central part of contemporary teen culture.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Oct 20, 2007 12:09 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kids are stupid. I mean, hateful. Let's invent a hatecrime!
Marginalize those little...wait..
...
nvm.
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» RE: It used to be "fatty-fatty-two-by-four...."....
Posted by: rocketman
» The solution should start at home. The problem is that is doesn't.
Posted by: yellow
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» It's plain to see
Posted by: Rolomax
» If you don't agree that kids calling each other names is pretty mean...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Oops. P'raps I misinterpreted.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Societal issues underly family stability
Posted by: CanadianTheorist
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Posted by: Logic's Edge on Oct 20, 2007 1:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» George Bush is proud of what happened at Columbine
Posted by: mizipi
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Posted by: christininrome on Oct 20, 2007 3:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Externally visible traits of feminine characteristics on men, dancing, wearing lipstick, eating too much at a feast, dressing in slightly Hellenic and Eastern dress were sufficient grounds for hurling insults at the offender, calling him "woman-like." The orator, in order to reduce his opponent's public-esteem, and the value of his potency as a lawyer, would portay him as showing signs of womanish behaviour, wearing his toga in the wrong way or gesturing innappropriately, just like a woman.
As in today's high-school taunts, the ultimate degradation of another Roman male was not to call him gay or a woman, but to blurr the lines of his power and masculinity with sub-consciously perceived and accepted aspects of femininity. This ritual-like fear of any deviation from masculine traits, behaviour and characteristics was linked to Roman males' notion that self-management-and therefore State-management-were intrinsically connected to preserving each Roman's masculine self-definition. Therefore chastising publicly any man who didn't fall-in line was not only normal but necessary for setting the boundaries of masculine and feminine comport. These lines must not get confused.
It seems that very little of the "fag" discourse in today's schools, as this article has pointed out, has had much to do with the fear of direct or latent homo-sexuality among fellow male classmates. Calling each other a "fag" usually meant "you're showing insufficient masculintiy, you're acting too effeminately," or "you're an idiot." The boys concern in high-school is simliar to the ancient Roman males concern. The underlying assumption is that the lines between being male and being female do not get blurred. If today, that line's transgression arrives in the form of the like for dancing, wearing long-hair, sporting a dress, then the Ancient Roman model for masculine-social behaviour and therefore that of the State still holds true today: do not behave like a "fag" so you can avoid ever becoming like a "woman."
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» RE: Insults in Ancient Rome
Posted by: dannrusso
» It is still a power issue
Posted by: D_comp
» search for Stanford Prison Experiment or Phillip Zimbardo
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: It is still a power issue--agreed
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» FINALLY..............
Posted by: gellero
» Or maybe "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Oct 20, 2007 3:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've got a real problem here with parenting and our schools. So many parents and people who run our schools (mmm, teachers of family values, the American way, and right morality) are homophobic, femiphobic, because they are themselves so very insecure about their own gender and sexual identities. So, why not marginalize anyone who doesn't fit my standards?
They don't "fit", therefore they should not exist.
Bush is one of the main perpetrators of such a philosophy...if you can call it that.
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» insecure? You've got to be kidding..............
Posted by: Lajaw
» RE: insecure? You've got to be kidding..............
Posted by: PhantomOfLiberty
» Deviant?
Posted by: gellero
» RE: insecure? You've got to be kidding..............
Posted by: Lajaw
» Sigh...
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Sigh...
Posted by: Lajaw
» RE: Sigh...
Posted by: LeaveMeAlone
» I'm seriously glad that you believe in evolution.
Posted by: hagwind
» Dude your in serious need of some formal education. How did you even find this blog?
Posted by: yellow
» you are either speaking from personal experience or
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» That's right, keep the hate alive!
Posted by: magiquarian1969
» RE: Parallel with the "N" word!
Posted by: skatermom
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Oct 20, 2007 5:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This statement is somewhat misleading. The homophobia present in high schools doesn't extend to girls so long as those girls have a sufficiently "feminine" appearance to be considered desirable according to the standards of these boys' social milieu. Girls who appear sufficiently "masculine" are routinely harassed as dykes in high schools. This was true as much as a decade ago when I was a student.
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» RE: Homophobia Directed Towards Women
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Homophobia Directed Towards Women
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Homophobia Directed Towards Women
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Homophobia Directed Towards Women
Posted by: Turkiye
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Posted by: herbal on Oct 20, 2007 5:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should we not address social issues openly by talking about both sides of the question? Is there not a real fear of pederasty among juveniles? They have an idea what anal sex is and homosexual rape in prisons by prisoners who identify as heterosexual, priest seduction, parents justified warnings abut pederasts, etc. and it is all very confusing and frightening. Is it any wonder that they act in ways that can be characterized in simplistic ways for social discourse, teasing among peers as well as individuals who are really peceived as being different? It might be a blessing that they are generally not confronted by and expected to deal with homosexual countercultural rhetoric and humor like merkin, smegma, fisting, amyl nitrate, circle f....,toe fungus, etc. etc. Life is more complicated than the author of the ¨fag¨article could consider.
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» That's a pretty shallow comment
Posted by: hagwind
» Excellent points. Not about sex, about power
Posted by: D_comp
» Shallow Comment
Posted by: newtype_alpha
» it's more about how your parents reared you than being a larger 'social issue'
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: willymack on Oct 20, 2007 5:38 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What's in a name?
Posted by: bomec
» RE: What's in a name?
Posted by: Bbear41
» RE: What's in a name?
Posted by: rocketman
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Posted by: Jkid4x on Oct 20, 2007 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While progressive laws such as California's are enacted that change the laws, it may not change societal attitudes against a prejudice. So the government has a responsibility to educate people about sexual orientation and gender identity. They can show the history of these two subjects, present real people who are a sexual/gender minority to prove that they are real people with real feelings and real lives. That is the best way to cure homophobia and transphobia. And if that does not get to the homophobic brats, let the state penal laws deal with them.
And if school administrators don't want to do their job to protect all student from general and prejudicial harassment, the state should sue school district and fire the ones responsible for the harassment under their watch.
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Posted by: AndyF on Oct 20, 2007 6:41 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Yet another report from the Institute of the Obvious
Posted by: war_on_tara
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Oct 20, 2007 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Elementary school socializing is maybe all the socializing any child needs.
After that, is it really necessary to subject them to the "Animal Farm" or prison atmosphere of the average middle or high school? (even if they all have to do book reports on "Animal Farm" & "Lord of the Flies" without most of the kids seeing any irony).
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» RE: Homeschooling - it's not just for right-wing wackos anymore!
Posted by: LeslieGem
» RE: Homeschooling - it's not just for right-wing wackos anymore!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Yes!! it is a real viable option now thanks to the Internet
Posted by: zooeyhall
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Posted by: Q30 on Oct 20, 2007 7:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm. Wonder how that not-so-little detail got left-out of the author's own observations? (Shrug) Oh well, chalk it up entirely to the contamination called "masculinity" I guess.
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» Yes I have noticed...
Posted by: KeeperofStars
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 20, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS
Posted by: bomec
» RE: TOO MUCH TIME ....well since we're being realistic...
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS
Posted by: newtype_alpha
» RE: TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» Excellent Points
Posted by: chugach3Dguy
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Posted by: sausage on Oct 20, 2007 8:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's nothing gayer than a bunch of guys wearing camouflage hunting outfits, "cammies," bragging about shooting a big buck.
There's nothing gayer than a bunch of guys wearing leather vest, chaps and do-rags, hugging and kissing each other at the local "Hog" rally.
There's nothing gayer than a bunch of guys watching an anal sex porn video, even though it's hetero, and cheering every particuarly deep thrust, commenting that they wish their wife/girlfriend would consent to such treatment.
Perhaps homophobia is both a projection and defense mechanism for all the homoerotic activities which permeate the hyper machimo world of the contemporary American man?
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» RE: There's nothing gayer than...
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 20, 2007 8:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IMF's "Pro-Growth" Policies Killing Gains in Developing World
By Mark Weisbrot, AlterNet. Posted October 18, 2007.
What are your editors thinking? Why does Don Hazen focus on sex and ignore world politics? Please - this kind of thing is an insult to your readers.
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» RE: Breaking News! Soldiers kill people! Americans are shocked!
Posted by: hagwind
» Hagwind is right. Those who scream "fag" will one day go to Wall Street and exploit the 3rd World!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Hagwind is right. Those who scream "fag" will one day go to Wall Street and exploit the 3rd World!!
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Apophenia, most of your post is silly. The rest is irrelevant.
Posted by: yellow
» Yellow You Read...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» You're ridiculous. This isn't about governement. It's about kids being taught respect for others.
Posted by: yellow
» Thanks, yellow. I couldn't figure out WTF he was talking about.
Posted by: hagwind
» Maybe I'm right, but I'm not sure about this "single mentality" thing
Posted by: hagwind
» Sounds like the rational actor model of behavior. I was talking about something else.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Sounds like the rational actor model of behavior.
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Breaking News! Teenager children call each other names! Parents are shocked!
Posted by: lotus23
» Thanks Lotus23 for speaking up. I hope you get those who harmed your child brought to justice.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Voicedude on Oct 20, 2007 8:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So get thicker skin and deal with it! The alternative is self-hatred or turning into a Columbine animal (more self-hatred, really!). We can only teach our OWN kids the right way to live, but hate-filled morons breed too, you know!
Since I, too, was on the receiving end of these berating morons, I clearly don't agree with it. But teenagers will be teenagers will be teenagers will be teenagers........
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» I was abused ...
Posted by: Bbear41
» RE: I love that phrase "Is Turning into"...
Posted by: kingrat
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Posted by: apple pie on Oct 20, 2007 9:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we really want to address the psychological health of the adolescent male child than we have to be able to model tolerance to them, not necesarily through more rules or 'laws' (although when safety is an issue, as with the child harassed by the thugs at River HS, yes the admin needs to enforce rules for the safety of all children), but through a frank discussion of free choice and decision making. Unfortunately the forces of repression are always at the gate of public education, foaming at the mouth and insisting on more rules, more testing, more corporate overseers, more militaristic nonsense, and less analysis of educational purpose and holistic curriculums that promote understanding.
And anything that is different needs to be pounded into that misshappen hole of agony and trauma (no pun intended!), to be made smooth, to be made consistent and non-idealized and so, robotic and easily managed, tested, and, like a good finished piece, finally destined only to increase production or to provide for being a 'good' soldier (sic 'team-player'.)
The structural violence that the system enforces ends up repeating itself unless checked by the classroom teacher. So, as it is challenged the reactive forces of intolerance will respond with typical violence. Any administrative staff that allows this brutalization to fester and succeed should quit working public education and go work for the prisons...it pays better anyways.
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Posted by: Realman on Oct 20, 2007 9:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you kidding? What rock was the author (or the headline writer?) under for the last 30 years? This is not news.
I graduated high school in 1977, in a Democratic-leaning, very middle-class suburban district less than 50 miles from NYC, and even with those real and potential advantages to help the school have some progressive aspects, "Fag" was the go-to insult in the mid-70s.
Any gay men from the era who didn't die of AIDS complications (and most of my gay friends from them have died) have the lingering effects of a kind of post-traumatic stress disorder. This is also not news. These are the stakes, as they have been for decades.
Either turn around how our "villages" raise our children, or continue to deal with the walking wounded. We sure can muster our strengths to get ourselves together in adulthood, but it'd be a lot easier on society to not have to heal the long-term, repeatedly-inflicted wounds in the first place.
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» RE: " 'Fag' Is Turning Into ... " ?????
Posted by: davidrossi
» RE: " 'Fag' Is Turning Into ... " ?????
Posted by: lotus23
» Too true!!!
Posted by: powdermonkey1
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Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Oct 20, 2007 11:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is the author just now waking from a 100 year sleep or some such?
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Posted by: JERSEYDAN on Oct 20, 2007 11:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: *sexuality *was rampant in Rome
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» But this article is not about homosexuality or homophobia . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: But this article is not about homosexuality or homophobia . . .
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: They didn't think of it as "being gay"
Posted by: Jasonix
» A day late unfortunately. . .
Posted by: NthnBrazil
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 20, 2007 11:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Retarded used to be in regular clinical use I think, but now is largely considered not to be P.C. so now we have 'special needs' or 'mentally challenged'. I'm not suggesting that Fag was ever a clinical term, but providing an example of how the meaning of any word can be stretched and changed. It's Newspeak.
Look at the word terror. How that poor word has been abused and contorted over the past six years. Sometimes when words get worn out, you have to invent new ones, like 'Islamo-Facism'.
High School isn't so different from adult life in terms of its mechanisms for social grouping. From your first day, you try to figure out what group you belong to. It could be divided among racial or religious lines, or by the fact that you are into sports or arts or whatever. Students group themselves by sex as well. I went to school in small town Canada. At that time, there were no blacks, no asians. I think we had a couple of Pakistanis whose parents owned a pharmacy. There were no distinct religious groups. So what happened?
We divided ourselves up by the jocks, popular girls, stoners. Our school was centrally located in an area of small rural towns and all kids in that area came to our school, so we also divided up socially by what town we came from. We divided up by economic class as well. It doesn't matter whether you are talking about gays, minorities, religious differences. Kids will find ways to divide into groups and will be fearful of other groups, it's no different in adult life.
Go to any workplace with a cafeteria and you'll see the same divisions among where people sit. Except there is also a new one, management separate from workers, but that is really just the logical extension of division by economic class.
I think people are just inclined to divide into tribes for a feeling of belonging and security. We might do business with other tribes and possibly form alliances, perhaps even inter-marry, but in any crisis you seek the comfort of your own tribe. It's true, from the geo-politics of the playground to the mud slinging of the world stage.
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» Ah, the "USA in your DNA" argument.
Posted by: Coleman
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Posted by: yellow on Oct 20, 2007 12:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Here's a lesson for Alternet Readers: There's more to "sticks n' stones" than "sticks n' stones."
Posted by: Axiom69
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Posted by: billwald on Oct 20, 2007 1:54 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do homosexuals feel compelled to destroy common words? Should it be a felony to sing, ". . . now we don our gay apparal?"
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» RE: "Phobic" means "fear of"
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» on not liking lima beans
Posted by: Bouldercreeker
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Posted by: Melvin on Oct 20, 2007 3:53 PM
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Oct 20, 2007 7:30 PM
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» RE: The Deep Roots of Homophobia
Posted by: Lajaw
» RE: The Deep Roots of Homophobia
Posted by: bravegirl68
» RE: The Deep Roots of Homophobia
Posted by: mjglow
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 20, 2007 8:09 PM
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 20, 2007 11:24 PM
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Oct 21, 2007 10:11 AM
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One example: a friend of mine's son was being harrassed in high school a few years back. Another student played a little "game" of blind siding him into a wall or a locker. My friend's son was an honor student, but ironically he was bigger than his attacker (not to mention that he was a 2nd degree karate black belt). The principal decided that since nobody else saw the attacks, he could do nothing about it.
After several incidences, my the son finally had enough and blasted the attacker after another attack. Since the school had a "zero tolerance" policy, both students were suspended for a day. (The game did end at that point.)
This whole thing could have been worse, but the principal could have handled the case in a more common sense and logical fashion.
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» Here is the problem when authority abdicates its authority.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: kelt65 on Oct 21, 2007 10:12 AM
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I take issue, though, that this 'has nothing to do with sexuality' - it has everything to do with it (I don't care what the kids say, they don't know wtf they're talking about). It is just one facet of institutional enforcement of heterosexuality, and perhaps the most damaging one. It is somewhat natural for young boys to be rebellious against adults, but rebelling against ones peers is much, much more difficult. the last thing some 13 year old gay boy needs is all this 'fag' shit, no wonder there are so many gay teen male suicides.
Sadly, in my experience, most adult men act the same way, like fucking 13 year old homophobiacs. The schoolyard described here sounds exactly like every place I've ever worked.
When adult educators stop preaching against homosexuality, or just being flagrantly homophobic themselves, this issue will eventually wither away. Why is it still, in fucking 2007, common for educators to tell young gay kids that they are sick, subhuman and immoral? And you wonder why this sickness trickles down into 13 year olds being utterly freaked out by - yes - being attracted to each other? How much longer can this sick anti-sex (really anti-pleasure) mentality persist?
It almost (just musing here) makes me wish for a moratorium on straight men teaching at the elementary level at all. Women simply do not do this, it just isn't there.
The real solution, however, is to get fucking religious wing nuts out of education altogether. Since no one has the patience for the geologic pace which this is proceeding (yes, religion is slowly losing its relevance, it is increasingly viewed as crazy, in the realm of flat earthers - it has virtually zero intellectual influence these days) , we sit here wringing our hands and writing articles like this. These freaks still control our society.
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Posted by: sculptor on Oct 21, 2007 3:21 PM
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Posted by: toroloco815 on Oct 21, 2007 11:17 PM
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violence, and other examples of male 'privilege' never realizing that the system of patriarchy is destroying us, our sons, fathers, and brothers also...........when is the last time a female went on a shooting spree? (yes, i'm aware of the inspiration for the Boomtown Rats song, "i don't like mondays," but i find that the exception rather than the rule....
from our 'macho' leaders playing world policemen/cowboys to the grammar school bully, the common denominator is to be the dominator.....anything less than that is to be too 'girly'.............
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Posted by: toroloco815 on Oct 21, 2007 11:17 PM
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violence, and other examples of male 'privilege' never realizing that the system of patriarchy is destroying us, our sons, fathers, and brothers also...........when is the last time a female went on a shooting spree? (yes, i'm aware of the inspiration for the Boomtown Rats song, "i don't like mondays," but i find that the exception rather than the rule....
from our 'macho' leaders playing world policemen/cowboys to the grammar school bully, the common denominator is to be the dominator.....anything less than that is to be too 'girly'.............
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» RE: boys will be boys ??
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: boys will be boys ??
Posted by: wearesilhouettes
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Posted by: snideelf on Oct 22, 2007 12:33 AM
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I guess that's okay when you see what kind of leaders we have in this country.
Also the crap on TV and esp. on the movies, what passes for "entertainment" with the popular genre of "action movies" full of ultra-violence probably does not help.
Everyone wants to be "bad".
If crap like Columbine and VTech continue to happen, then the citizens of America are too stupid to do anything about it.
Just look at how many American citizens went out and actually voted for Bush.
Says a lot.
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Oct 22, 2007 8:40 AM
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In societies where the necessities of life are abundant, traditional female characteristics like nurturing and cooperation are honored. The elderly are admired for their wisdom, while deities and leaders are usually female.
In America, after the Vietnam War, people began to realize that we were a nation of abundance. The middle class was thriving. The threat of communism was diminishing, we had no real economic or political rivals, and we had the largest weapons system known to history. In other words, we had a society in which the essentials of life were assured for a lot of people. During that time, many men, especially those from the middle and upper classes (from which the hippies usually came) began being kinder and gentler than previous generations. The women's movement was accepted by a surprising number of men, and women made strides in the workplace and at home. This was not universal, but it was a definite movement.
Male dominance was threatened, and the troglodytes in certain republican and rightwingnut religious camps were threatened. How would they maintain their patriarchal society without wars and fear? A concerted effort was made by men in power (as it was right after WWII - see Betty Friedan for more information) to put women back in their place. Rallying the populace to war and unrest was a good way to restore masculine power. Since there was no Soviet Union, rogue states became the enemy of choice.
Although name-calling and the word "fag" have always been prevalent among adolescent boys, the sheer magnitude of the problem seems new. It's a reflection of a larger attitude that demands that "men act like men."
Note that horrible beer commercial in which men are crushed by beer cans for being nice to their wives or acting compassionate. In the original Star Trek series, strange new life forms were very often benign and if one appeared to be friendly, it usually was. On Voyager, friendly species are the most suspect and usually turn out to be threatening. It's not a coincidence, it's the attitude of the times.
More and more "having balls" meaning "courage" has become the norm as a compliment. In other words, you have to be a man or like a man to have courage. If you are a "pussy" then you are like a woman and not as good. The idea that masculine = good and feminine = not so good has become pervasive.
This is a simplistic overview of a complex subject, but it's easy to find support for my premise by paying attention to our language, the treatment of certain members of our population, and the discourse of "conservative" elements of society.
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Posted by: Axiom69 on Oct 22, 2007 8:53 AM
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The solution starts at home by parents teaching their children tolerance. By teaching them to look at people that are different from them not with fear but as an oppurtunity to learn. To learn about a different culture, race, heritage or lifestyle. Teach them the benefits this learning brings instead of the close mindedness of fear. This cannot be forced on people with lawsuits and regulations. Education is the best weapon against almost all of societies ills. Now if we can only get people to learn THAT lesson.
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 22, 2007 12:31 PM
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Hell, these are words you are likely to find in any job description or interview for a middle manager or CEO.
This type of behavior and attitude is REWARDED in our society.
Some of the very qualities that you find in the lunks who participate in gay bashing you will find in some of the people that Forbes Magazine is praising right now.
It wouldn't surprise me if many of the young men who partcipate in gay hate have dads who are CEOs or managers of one kind of another.
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» RE: a society's values
Posted by: wearesilhouettes
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Posted by: swarmofkillermonkeys on Oct 22, 2007 3:34 PM
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"Quit being such a fag and getting me in trouble!"
"No, YOU'RE a fag!"
"Hey -- quit hitting me, faggot!"
"Fag!"
"Fag!"
(the playful hitting continues, the irony unnoticed, until a third boy comes along...)
"Dude, you guys are gay!"
(both change their tune in harmony)
"No way! We aren't gay!"
"Yeah, seriously. We're not gay, man."
There's a typical, hormone induced brain-addled conversation that I remember hearing. Completely divorced from any homosexual message... except, perhaps, as a way for two teenage boys to be close, and touch, without feeling "guilty". You know, since at 13+ most boys are permanently... uh, ready-to-go. They are terrified that everyone can see their stiff bits and will somehow get the wrong message. Or even worse, their scary, gigantic sex drive will at some point just make they themselves jump their buddy and go to town. Seriously, teenage boys are idiots. But then, I do remember my sex drive from 16. Wow. Can be powerful and confusing stuff for a kid, especially with no outlet (no pun intended).
To me the word isn't the problem. It is the bullying attitude behind it. In my high school in a poor mining town in a red state, the 3 black kids were heroes, the 2 out gay kids where ignored. Great right? Wrong. Someone, anyone, would have the crap beat out of them in the parking lot on a regular basis. Near daily. Sometimes parents participated. Some were injured for life. Some couldn't take the abuse and suicided.
That isn't homophobic or racist. Welcome to being human.
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Posted by: wearesilhouettes on Oct 22, 2007 4:07 PM
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I think this is indicative of our social consciousness as a whole right now in our society. Teenagers are especially sensitive, I think, to feelings and want to be 'normal' and 'cool'. Most Americans watch 3-6 hours of TV a day or play video games, etc, and most of it, I believe, is overly violent, and focused on externalities of life such as being 'hot' or 'cool' or wearing the right clothes or anything that has to do with hiding who you really are, because who you really are is veeerrry bad since it does not conform with everyone else.
I think this is a purposeful tool used by the corporations and tv monopolies to brainwash us and make our children in to self obsessed, violent, and neurotic adults. They control the media - we watch it - we become what we're told to be.
By the way, can I pinch a fag from you? I haven't had a smoke all day!!
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Posted by: rrk70 on Oct 22, 2007 5:58 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mostly, adolescent males attempt to purge themselves of the same feelings they mock as 'gay' or 'fag-like' in those around them. Same-sex attraction in males, especially young males, is all but universal, but our culture has taught from an early age that such attractions are taboo, or worse. Consequently self-hatred is quite common. So the realization they have such same-sex attractions produces the ultimate defense: accusation. Calling everone else a 'fag' means you aren't gay. If only.
In the male high school world the conventional behavior is that anything feminine ranks you lower than low. What does this say for forty years of feminism? Males still see any femininity as weak as they deny such traits and feelings in themselves.
This is a cultural phenomenon that reflects our national militarism. Rambo is the role model, and we could be doing much more about it. Laws, however, are not the answer. Intergenerational male-male contact, assuming the older male is not a complete idiot, could make a big difference, but such healthy contact is rare. Time does make some of these morons grow up, but the damage done to those persecuted under this progrom is permanent.
Like everything else I thought would get better as time has gone on, this hasn't, and I'm all the sadder for it.
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