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Sex and Relationships

Porn's Dirty, Dangerous Secret

By Robert Jensen, Last Exit. Posted October 21, 2008.


There are a finite number of ways that human bodies can fit together. So pornmakers resort to sexualizing degradation to stay "cutting edge."
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Ed. Note: AlterNet has run a series of articles on the frequently ignored role of pornography in contemporary society. At the bottom of Robert Jensen's article you can find links to more stories addressing the many questions that pornography poses.

There are a finite number of ways that human bodies can be placed together sexually, and as one pornography industry veteran lamented to me at the annual trade show, "they've all been shot." He sighed, pondering the challenge of creating a sexually explicit film that is unique, and mused, "After all, how many dicks can you stick in a girl at one time?"

His question was offered rhetorically, but I asked: How many?

Probably four, he said; simultaneous oral, vaginal, and double-anal penetration was realistic. Another producer later in the day told me he had once worked on a film that included a double-anal/double-vag scene -- a woman being penetrated by four men at once. He said the director had a special harness made to hold the woman for that scene. In contemporary mass-marketed heterosexual pornography, it's unexceptional to see a standard DP (industry slang for "double penetration," with two men entering a woman vaginally and anally at the same time) with oral penetration.

Whatever the number, theoretical or routine, the discussion reminds us that pornography is relentlessly intense, pushing our sexual boundaries both physically and psychically. And, pornography also is incredibly repetitive and boring.

Pornographers know all this, of course, and it keeps them on edge.

These days there are about 13,000 pornographic films released each year, compared with about 600 from Hollywood. Not surprisingly, a common concern at the Adult Entertainment Expo each time I attended (in 2005, 2006, and 2008) was that the desperate struggle by directors to distinguish their films from all the others was leading to a kind of "sexual gymnastics." Lexington Steele, one of the most successful contemporary pornography performers and producers, put it bluntly: "A lot of gonzo is becoming circus acts."

"Gonzo" is the pornographic genre that rejects plot, character, or dialogue, offering straightforward explicit sex. Gonzo films are distinguished from "features," which to some degree mimic the structure of a traditional Hollywood film. According to the top trade magazine: "Gonzo, non-feature fare is the overwhelmingly dominant porn genre since it's less expensive to produce than plot-oriented features, but just as importantly, is the fare of choice for the solo stroking consumer who merely wants to cut to the chase, get off on the good stuff, then, if they really wanna catch some acting, plot and dialog, pop in the latest Netflix disc." ["The Directors," Adult Video News, August 2005, p. 54.]

In that description is considerable insight into why pornography (1) has always been boring and (2) will continue to become more brutal.

The industry works from the assumption that the men who consume the vast majority of commercial heterosexual pornography are not really human beings with hearts, minds and souls. In the porn world, a man is a kind of sexual robot in search of nothing more than the stimulation of pleasure circuits. In that world, the goal is to reduce human sexuality to the production of an erection and orgasm as quickly as possible -- get it up and get it off, efficiently. Pornography assumes not that a man has a penis but that a man is nothing more than a penis.

The pornographer faces one serious obstacle in all this: Men are human beings. No matter how emotionally deformed by the toxic conception of masculinity that is dominant in a patriarchal culture such as the United States, we are human beings with hearts, minds and souls.

No matter how much men try to cut themselves off from the emotional component of sex, that component never withers completely, and therein lies the potential problem for pornographers. When all emotion is drained from sex it becomes repetitive and uninteresting -- in a word, boring, even to men who are watching solely to facilitate masturbation. Because the novelty of seeing sex on the screen eventually wears off, pornographers who want to expand (or even just maintain) market share and profit need to give their products an emotional edge of some kind.

But pornography doesn't draw on the emotions most commonly connected with sex -- love and affection -- because men typically consume pornography specifically to avoid love and affection. So, the pornographers offer men sexual gymnastics and circus acts that are saturated with cruelty toward women; they sexualize the degradation of women. While most of us would agree those are negative emotions, they are powerful emotions. And in a patriarchal society in which men are conditioned to see themselves as dominant over women, such cruelty and degradation fit easily into men's notions about sex and gender.

When I offer this critique to men who are avid consumers of pornography, they often tell me that I'm wrong, that they watch gonzo and don't see the kind of cruelty and degradation that I am describing. They tell me that that there's no cruelty in a woman is being penetrated in aggressive fashion by three men who call her a whore throughout the sex. They tell me that when five men thrust into a woman's mouth to the point she gags, slap a woman in the face with their penises, and ejaculate into her mouth and demand that she swallow it all, there's no degradation.

In some sense, they are telling the truth -- they aren't seeing the cruelty and degradation because they are too caught up in the sexual arousal, and in such a state their critical faculties are derailed. They don't see it because they are men in a patriarchal culture focused on their own pleasure. To see the woman as a person deserving of respect -- to see her as fully human -- would interfere with getting it up and getting it off.

When I was a young adult who used pornography, I didn't see it either, because I had a stake in not seeing it. That's why after an orgasm I would quickly leave the theater or adult bookstore. That dates me, I know; my pornography use came before the VCR brought pornographic films into the home. But the pattern endures; many men I talk to today tell me that after masturbating they quickly take out the DVD or shut off the computer to avoid really seeing what is taking place on the screen. To slightly revise a cultural clich, when the little head's work is done, the big head re-engages. When the sexual experience is over, men can think, and when men can see the reality of pornography's contempt for women most don't want to watch.

These are general observations, an attempt to identify patterns in pornography. But the world is, of course, complex. There is considerable individual variation in the human species; not all men watch pornography for the same reason or have the same experience. And among those 13,000 films each year, there is variety. But there is a pattern to men's consumption of pornography and the industry's strategy to keep men consuming:

* Heterosexual men tend to consume pornography to achieve sexual satisfaction without the complications of dealing with a real woman. * Pornographers deliver graphic sexually explicit material that does the job, but to do so they must continuously increase the cruelty and degradation to maintain profits.

Gonzo producers test the limits with new practices that eroticize men's domination of women. Less intense forms of those sexual practices migrate into the tamer feature pornography, and from there in muted form into mainstream pop culture. Pornography gets more openly misogynist, and pop culture becomes more pornographic -- many Hollywood movies and cable TV shows today look much like soft-core pornography of a few decades ago, and the common objectification of women in advertising has become more overtly sexualized.

Where will all this lead? How far will pornographers go to ensure their profits, especially as the proliferation of free pornography on the internet adds a new competition? How much eroticized misogyny will the culture be willing to tolerate?

When I ask that question of pornography producers, most say they don't know. An industry leader such as Lexington Steele acknowledged he has no crystal ball: "Gonzo really always pushes the envelope. The thing about it is, there's only but so many holes, only but so many different types of penetration that can be executed upon a woman. So it's really hard to say what's next within gonzo."

What's next? What comes after DPs and double anals? What is beyond a "10 Man Cum Slam" and "50 Guy Cream Pie"? I can't claim to know either. But after 20 years of researching the pornography industry as a scholar and critiquing it as part of the feminist anti-pornography movement, I know that we should be concerned. We should be afraid that there may be no limit on men's cruelty toward women. In a patriarchal society driven by the predatory values of capitalism, we should be very afraid.

For further reading:

Strange Bedfellows: Can Feminism and Porn Coexist?
By Nikko Snyder, Bitch Magazine

Is Pornography Really Harmful?
Michael Bader, AlterNet

Art and Porn: An Interview with Editor Dian Hanson
By Liz Langley, AlterNet

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See more stories tagged with: incompetence, oligarchy

Robert Jensen is a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin and board member of the Third Coast Activist Resource Center. His latest book, All My Bones Shake: Radical Politics in the Prophetic Voice, will be published in 2009 by Soft Skull Press. He also is the author of Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity (South End Press, 2007). His articles can be found online at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/index.html.

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Adults ratings of sex, violence and horror could have contributed to their associations.
Posted by: aouie01 on Oct 21, 2008 12:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many who grew up watching a variety of movies, would have noticed much more sexual content in the R rated horror or violent movies than the movies that were geared for the general audience or PG rating. It could have contributed to a disproportionate excitation from sexualized violence amongst horror movie watchers compared to those who didn't watch such movies.

Another example of association based cravings are how a lot of male humans who grew up watching the Hollywood adult-themed movies are now so disproportionately obsessed with ideas of (non-violent) threesomes (with two female humans and a male human).

While there is an increase in sexualized violence and degradation based videos, there is no shortage of people looking into other kinds of sex based movies. An example of a site that started of with the kind of sex talked about in the article, but then also included other kinds of sex for the mainstream adult video consumers would be Bangbros (who started off with Bang Bus).

As is often the case, people like the author tend to deal with this issue as an exploitation of female humans rather than as an exploitation of humans, including the consumers who pay for the sexual stimulus.

The author is probably also wrong about trying to get the consumers to orgasm as quickly as possible as being one of the goals. There are many people who now browse through a lot of pornography and spend much more time on it. Most are probably taking much more time per orgasm nowadays than about 20 years ago. It is also in the interests of the adult movie industry to get people to watch much more of their movies.

The author makes too many generalizations. I doubt most people who engage in consuming explicit sex materials are doing it in order to avoid love and affection. Most people in society, including male humans are very obsessed with finding a good person to love just like in all the television shows they grew up watching.

Sincerely,
Aouie

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» RE: The author Posted by: Cathyblj
Can the Left find a way to oppose pornography
Posted by: Jbuuty on Oct 21, 2008 2:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that we on the Left have gotten into such an ideological trap of absolute individual rights that we find it difficult to comment effectively on moral/ethical issues such as pornography. Being a, possibly normal male, I have found sexually appealing women attractive and I have seen some porn films. I think that most porn, especially the 'gonzo' as described in the article, degrades women. I think we need to re-look at the idea of freedom of choice. Are we as free from our circumstances, our pasts, our hurts, etc., that we think we are? Are women in reality freely choosing to participate in these sort of films?

I don't doubt that some women, and men, find it a turn on to be filmed in the act, but I have serious doubts that the degrading treatment found in most such films is a turn on for psychologically and socially healthy individuals. Something is wrong somewhere.

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» Why? Posted by: EinMD
» maybe through discussion and empathy Posted by: thistleblower
» FINALLY! Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: FINALLY! Posted by: Jbuuty
» huh? Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Jensen's kind of a throwback
Posted by: Eat Politicians on Oct 21, 2008 2:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to the Dworkin/MacKinnon anti-male sex crowd which basically says all male pleasure is detrimental to women somehow. Dworkin needed therapy, no a pulpit. And MacKinnon, while more rational in other areas, has been far to derogatory to sex positive feminists to be considered a real feminist.

He (Jensen) never actual backs up any of his claims with statistics on pornography or (heaven forbid) show sexual violence statistics in regions which prohibit pornography (which tend to have higher rates of sexual assault). He also set out to explain the worst areas of pornography and then assert that any consumer of porn is using worst-case scenario porn. No discussion of the topics of sex positive feminists are allowed. But here is a basic summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

If you want to argue sex workers rights and porn regulation, than sure. You're on the right track. But denying male and female sexuality isn't feminism, that includes all the gray area and negatives, instead it should be rationally discussed.

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» RE: Jensen's kind of a throwback Posted by: mr. joshua
» Jensen doesn't say that. Posted by: Beck
The last time I actually saw the latest porn, it was degrading
Posted by: snideelf on Oct 21, 2008 4:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A woman was having sex with a man over what looked like a flithy gas station toilet.
Sometimes during the sex act, the woman would have her head forcefully dunked into the filthy commode.

When it comes to great sex, there is nothing like your own little porn movie when you are in a healthy, stable, mature relationship with someone you love or really care about.
(these days it's difficult to say)

But porn can and does get old fast.

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What about ugly men?
Posted by: strahlungsamt on Oct 21, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What about ugly guys who can't get laid? What about guys who were rejected by women all their lives because they are broke, jobless, didn't go to college etc.? How do you think they feel about women? Their numbers are greater than you think.

I should know. As a guy with the looks and charm of Joe the Plumber, I spent most of my life struggling to get a woman. Either I walked around like a sad horn-dog trying to get a date, or I jerked off to a big pile of porn.

Believe me, women objectify men just as much as men objectify women. Plenty of times I have had a good job and women all told me I needed a good wife (when I couldn't bag a girlfriend). If I was the kind of Guido or Homeboy who beat his wife and wore bling-bling, I wouldn't need porn. Those guys get porn-star girlfriends all the time (along with credit card debt, repossession and stds).

I don't care for really abusive porn and I don't like seeing women being abused. And watching a woman being penetrated by four dicks is for gay guys on the DL.

Still, porn does it for me. I can jerk-off to porn in the morning and go to work and not think of pinching the secretary's ass or getting a blow-job in the (female) attorney's cubicle. I am not obsessed with mindless dating like the media is telling me to be. Nor do I have any sexual harassment lawsuits pending against me. The best part is: women actually approach me since I am less threatening and have a stable life.

Thank you Internet Porn.

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» RE: What about ugly men? Posted by: xi_people
» RE: What about ugly men? Posted by: Tobruck rock
» RE: What about ugly men? Posted by: PJAW
» RE: Jomama and Josister Posted by: Landbaron
» RE: What about ugly men? Good! Posted by: curiousdwk
» ACT LIKE A MAN AND YOU WILL BE SEXUALLY DESIRED Posted by: Democratic Socialist
Gone are the days
Posted by: PJAW on Oct 21, 2008 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when my thoughts would be randomly and frequently interrupted by a spontaneous erection, and I really don't miss them. The logistics of finding a willing partner or maintaining a fulfilling relationship, made self-gratification a frequently used alternative. Big deal. A little visual stimulation facillitates that process and reduces the amount of time devoted to it. Which clears the mind. We're not dirty or crazy because of this, it's just the way we're wired. Continual repression of those urges creates problems of its own kind, often worse than a little whacking-off does.

Having said that, I pretty much agree with the writer, some of this stuff is disgusting. I've never needed to witness gross episodes of abuse and degradation to manage the process, and I'm a little concerned for those who do. I doubt the porn discussed creates those needs, but it certainly feeds them, and implies they're okay. On the other hand, can we get out of Iraq already?

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» RE: Gone are the days Posted by: MamaPantz
» And if, as a man... Posted by: dbarber
» RE: And if, as a man... Posted by: MamaPantz
» RE: And if, as a man... Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
Overgeneralization
Posted by: xi_people on Oct 21, 2008 5:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As others have already eloquently stated, there is nothing wrong with the desire to view sexual situations. Doing so is natural for every human being, in varying degrees.

The author is creating the false impression that "most" porn is violent and disgusting. This simply is NOT the case. There are fringe audiences for practically ever endeavor known to humankind. I would submit that the vast majority of those who enjoy watching porn would be absolutely repulsed by the scenarios described in the article. That kind of stuff is not common, and I submit, not watched very often relative to the scenarios involving more traditional sexual encounters.

There is absolutely nothing implicitly wrong with receiving pleasure, and "pleasuring" oneself, via watching porn. There's a reason that prostitution is the world's oldest profession. Both men and women crave sex, and in the absence of the real thing, why not have a little fun with fantasy?

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» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: MamaPantz
» RE: Sorry, but you're wrong Posted by: xi_people
» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Overgeneralization Posted by: Crazy H
Right, but . . .
Posted by: curiousdwk on Oct 21, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I, as a male who enjoys erotic stimulation (I don't consider all erotic stimulation to be porn as the use of that word shows an emotional bias by the author) agree with much of what is said. There is a lot (perhaps more and more) subjugation of women. But while the author says that things need to get more and more dominated by men in order not to be boring, the author doesn't take into account that many who watch it will watch men be subjugated also. So any description needs to account for that also, and this doesn't.

Also, there were a few references to men watching this in order to "avoid" real relationships. That shows both contempt and ignorance of the subject of this supposed 20 year "study". I, and I'm sure many others, watch it because of a void of real realationships and not to avoid. If I had a choice, I would choose a real relationship. But women are not interested in having a sexual realtionship with me so that is why I resort to watching erotic films.

This article would have been much better if the strong emotional bias and prejudice of the author weren't so evident.

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» No kidding. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Not all that far from Real World
Posted by: corgyn on Oct 21, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, I admit I have made a few dollars off the world of amateur porn. I have filmed and sold home movies and stills and won a couple of contests.
My girlfriend DEMANDS you cum in her mouth, she has been having multiple sex partner experiences [gang bangs] for 20 years, on her own for personal satisfaction. She loves it when we sell a photo set or movie. She also loves DP so much that she will stick a dildo in her anus while we have vaginal sex because she loves the sensations.

While some porn might be degrading, some women really do like to be ridden hard and put away wet

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» I'll agree.... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Not all that far from Real World Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
» One question Posted by: Axiom69
» Sex hungry women Posted by: Democratic Socialist
HO HUMMm.............., HO HUMMM...............
Posted by: gellero1 on Oct 21, 2008 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something wrong with freedom to degrade??

I'm bored with this.

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And where...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Oct 21, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... in all this discussion of how far porn will go is ANYTHING said about the prime limiting factor... what women are willing to do in pornography???

Also, where is the discussion of the effect this has on males? Not as it affects the women in their lives, but as it affects the men themselves.

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» RE: And where... Posted by: MamaPantz
» RE: And where... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: And where... Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: And where... Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: And where...blah...blah...blah Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: And where...blah...blah...blah Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: And where... Posted by: Blue Heron
Jensen is correct
Posted by: oscarg on Oct 21, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bless Bob Jensen and the many other feminists and journalists who are forcing "progressives" to face the cruelty that is pornography. There is no innocent consumption here. To indulge in pornography is to subjugate actors and performers and to reward the promotors of this violence. No one would wish his or her wife, girl friend, daughter, mother, or friend to partake in pornography. And there are few men who would admit publicly that they like pornography. Why the hesitancy? It cannot be that the person would feel singled out. We all know that pornography is exceedingly popular. The only answer is that we know that pornography is repugnant and it breeds contempt for women. That is the unvarnished truth.

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» RE: Jensen is correct Posted by: sabrinamorgan
» RE: Jensen is correct Posted by: buddyedgewood
Man, Euros are FREAKS!
Posted by: Mexitli on Oct 21, 2008 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kinky b@stards!

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» RE: Man, Euros are FREAKS! [Mexitli = RACIST] Posted by: Democratic Socialist
Once one has decided that sex is bad and evil
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Oct 21, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then, obviously, depicting women engaging in sex is also bad and evil -- as it is depicting men "being treated like women".

There has always been a strain of sincere Puritanism on the Left. Indeed Karl Marx used prostitution, syphilis, and homosexuality as propagandist proof of the Evil of Capitalism ... which would just naturally pass away with the coming of Scientific Socialist State -- and the withering thereof. And when you consider both the prevalence and the consequences of prostitution among proletarian Victorian women, it's easy to see why he would say/think so.

Today the porn trade depends on women who although not prostitutes, illegal immigrants, drug addicts or sweatshop workers -- "just simply don't know what's good for them." These deluded females think they can engage in sexual athletics for the profit of (mostly male) producers and NOT be degraded in the process. THEIR opinions and feeling on the subject are simply not welcome in this discussion -- "degraded" as they are, how can their judgment be considered of any more worth than they are?

Look, to Robert Jensen's credit, Porn is not his whole obsession. Having long lamented the media obscurity of authentic "Far" Leftists, and near invisibility of a true Religious Left I should not object to Jensen noticing that "sex sells" -- whether you promote impurity for profit, or you condemn it loudly to gain media access for the rest of your message.

Jensen is absolutely "Not Wrong". The Gonzo porn is NOT "erotic art" we had hoped was coming when "Joy of Sex" was first published. Commercial porn IS mostly it is nasty, repetative, stereotypically sexist, -- and when you come down to it, rather sad. (Of course if one isn't obsessed by the Sex Issue ... the same can (and should) be said of Soap Opera, Fanboy comix and Action movies.)

Of course ... when Comes the Revolution ... men will become Eng lightened, and will voluntarily give up Consumerism, Meat Eating and Porn Addiction. (It worked such a treat in Russia and China, after all.)

And until then ... one can write diatribes.

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There are worse things on the net
Posted by: EinMD on Oct 21, 2008 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
than a girl being DP'd or bukkaked or smacked around, trust me. We studied 'sexual deviancy' in my Psych 200 level classes and had to do a report on one of them. I found 'gynophagia'.

Yes, that's right. That's the sexualized cannibalism of females and it was one of the most disturbing things I ever saw.

Got an A on the report for it.

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Porn, Violence, Greed... Brand New Threat To Humanity
Posted by: loxias on Oct 21, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, wait. Sorry that's right, these are all things which have been around for literally thousands of years.
In many societies today where porn is discouraged or illegal, it is still possible to beat "your" woman to death for a sexual impropriety and pay little or no consequences.
Personally, I'd rather live in a society where a girl can choose* to let 4 guys pee on her for money than one where 4 guys can rape a girl, and the court sentences the girl to being whipped. Of for that matter, charged for the rape kit.

I can agree that violence and porn have been commingled moreso than ever in the interest of generating wealth, however I don't think it is fair to wag the finger at males only. There are literally tens of thousands, or more, beautiful women who line up to make these films. I personally cannot fathom why attractive, educated women would choose to enter themselves into the annals (do I get a point for that one?) of time on all fours with 2 guys up their butt. However, I, for one, will not stand in their way.

If the author is so feminist, he would do well to serve them by aiding in the discovery of what it is that makes people subject to this type of behavior. We know that given the opportunity to enrich oneself, many will do anything necessary. Whether it be to film violent sex, perform violent sex, or sell depictions of violent sex, it seems myopic to claim general male desensitization as the cause. Personally, I think television is a much better starting point for this discussion. That is where 75% or more of the people in the US get their chosen* opinions and behavioral cues.

*Personally, I think "choice" is an illusion, and tend to lean toward materialism. However, the lack of true free will extends across the gender barrier, and is why castigating (point 2?) males is a pointless exercise.

In the words of the bard, "Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

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pc
Posted by: anarchris on Oct 21, 2008 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not a day goes by that i'm not reminded of everything pseudo liberals and the boomers raised me to believe. that the woman's movement/sexual revoloution is just about an end to barriers and sexist discrimination and double standards between the sexes. now, liberals are the dinosaurs that shame the sexes all over again(particularly hetero males)for their politically incorrect fantasies. now women bed men half their age and no one calls them dirty old women compensating for their over the hill egos. now women can cut off a guy's penis and people joke about it in a way they wouldn't if it was a black, jew, gay, woman, child or an animal. now women go to Chippendale's and no liberal calls it exploitation of men's bodies,hypocrisy, objectification that leads to low self esteem, poor body image, and violence against men. now
women's choices to be a sex worker, stripper, porn star are rejected not by domineering men but by feminists. now female teachers molest their male students and its called 'having sex with' and not rape and they end up on the cover of people magazine and rape victims are heard to say' i feel sorry for HER.' now when police are asked how to protect our children from child molesters the reply is 'i never hire men as baby sitters...cause let's face it, men have a predisposition towards sex.'
liberalism has lost its mind. it has lost site of what it was trying to achieve. its just another cult of ideology, a false religion that makes itself the measure of everything and not its stated goals and values. there are no true liberals anymore only pseudo liberals. anyone who is a true liberal, evolved long ago into something more transcendent that uses frameworks and ideas and a tool and not an end in themselves. love means lovingly embracing what we are warts and all, not cramming it into another one size fits all mold.

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» RE: pc Posted by: lightwing1
No doubt
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 21, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
porn is clearly a recession proof industry. guys will give up a lot of other things before they give up their porn!

Jiff
Privacy Center

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Time Efficient
Posted by: dbuskirk1 on Oct 21, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the "Gonzo" movement, maybe men who aren't looking for plot and story are just caught up in our sped-up, over-stimulated, over-worked society. I suspect most men just use porn to expediate masturbation ("I can't be sitting around doing this, I have to get back to work!"), and the fact that they don't sit down and get to know their porn characters may have less to do with dehumanization than is advertised.

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Wonderful! A pornographic article about porn.
Posted by: USAFVeteran1966 on Oct 21, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Me thinks X-rated Robert Jensen protests too much.

More obvious than his obsession with porn is Jensen's mistaken motive -- that "men typically consume pornography specifically to avoid love and affection."

Get real, Professor. Speak from your own experience. You know full well it's the ABSENCE of love and affection that causes me to use porn excessively.

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scifi porn
Posted by: cyr3n on Oct 21, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like they're just going to have to graft on a few more pussies to accomodate all the cocks. Thus, "pincushion porn" is born.

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» Better yet: new use for stem cells! Posted by: Democratic Socialist
Bwahahaha...
Posted by: Q30 on Oct 21, 2008 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh God, I thought Alternet was done posting this guy's twaddle. Jensen has spent much of his adult life running in terror from his own genitals. Is this the kind of person you want regulating your sex life?

Hey, let's revisit the great Alternet porn debates of the past...

Feminist: "Pornography causes violence!!"

Me: "Can you provide any proof?"

Feminist: "Pornography causes VIOLENCE!! Why do you love VIOLENCE so much?!"

Me: "Repeating the assertion louder doesn't count as proof."

Feminist: "ZOMG MISOGYNIST!!!!"

THE END

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» LOL! Posted by: GuitarBill
But, where's the "Danger?" What's the "Secret"?
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Oct 21, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and by extention -- "What's the point?"

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Aw, it ain't all that awful
Posted by: BST on Oct 21, 2008 8:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women and men both access porn and for a variety of reasons:

No partner ... a partner who is unwilling, incapable or unavailable ... for education ... to keep the machinery oiled ... and because it's a hoot to tickle the tuna in solitary once in a while without an added-on discussion of family debt or what the kids ate for supper.

Watching human beings get and give pleasure -- and riding the buzz as an observer -- is perfectly normal. This is as old as time and the days of peephole houses.

I'd guess that the preponderance of women and men would love a relationship that's warm, secure, loving and busting out with great sex.

Just ain't in the cards for everyone. But let's not denigrate men (or women) who lack this opportunity for seeking alternatives.

We're animals after all.

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There is not just one kind of fantasy
Posted by: TKirwin on Oct 21, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Based on your absolutist assertions, I must be the only male on the planet that finds an attractive woman in practically any form of dress to be potentially sexy. If she is happily flirtatious and willing to engage in sex, well that's even better. Violence and degredation are not remotely interesting to me, while the idea of mutually enjoyed pleasure is. That hasn't changed in the 30+ years I have enjoyed porn, both in and out of relationships. It can also be a positive tool to support couples sharing or exploring new areas for them. Since when is imagination necessarily all bad?

I recognize that there are a number of people who have what I would also feel are disturbing interests as it relates to porn, but it is not one singular and inescapable direction and not everyone feels that way.

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porn has many niches - only idiots would pick the violent garbage
Posted by: counterpoint on Oct 21, 2008 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As any surfer will instantly discover there's extremely beautiful and tasteful stuff out there, not hidden but categorized. Somehow I doubt that men would flock to watch a violent humpathon when they can get off viewing much more enticing bodies that project a soul. Try kindgirls.com and see whether you really want to go back to the the Sex with Farm animals category.

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tired....
Posted by: axjxhx on Oct 21, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ugh. please. i'm so tired of the same RHETORIC about men needing to jack off to porn to "clear their heads". it's complete horse crap. how about you males with hormones out of control castrate yourselves then? it would seem that the discomfort and agony of constantly needing to get off would be quieted by the absence of this body part that constantly needs attention. you men quickly divorce women who are half as needy as your pricks are. emancipate yourselves, then.

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» RE: tired.... Posted by: BST
» RE: tired.... Posted by: axjxhx
» RE: tired.... Posted by: Juven
» RE: tired.... Posted by: axjxhx
» F****** nut.... Posted by: GuitarBill
Genital Echo
Posted by: Juven on Oct 21, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been singing a similar tune for years. I have seen the repression that results from morality attempting to control what is a "natural" drive.

Pornography is as J.G. Ballard says "the most political form of fiction as it deals with how we use and exploit each other in them most urgent and ruthless way."

Modern day porn is a metaphor for capitialism. There is no escape from that--and this is a consideration that is not brought up in this article-- the films, and the performers are in and being made to make money! Lesson learned? Anything can be bought!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poNZmxDb9A8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bVkx5Nvits

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Bait and switch
Posted by: BST on Oct 21, 2008 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fictions that may arise from porn watching could be more of an issue than the porn itself.

The combination of mainstream TV, film and porn images of "perfection" has helped produce a society so obsessed with looks -- looks that look like what has been marketed to us -- that there is total confusion over what is simply advertising and what is actually sensuous.

Men who are far from the standard for handsome can have sex appeal (and prowess) beyond belief. Same for women (I know because I am one and never was a cover girl).

Truly sensual people are not the product of Botox and lifts and reshapings; they have that je ne sais quoi in the walk, the talk, the tilt, the lilt, the swagger, the eye contact, the smile, the respect for other people.

Porn and MSM media has duped many of us into believing that a great face and body will deliver satisfaction and the opposite, modest looks, will not. Just ain't necessarily so.

This mythology may be the greatest rip-off to emerge from the age of porn and may explain why so many relationships go bad. Expectation is planned disappointment.

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» RE: Bait and switch Posted by: lewb
» RE: Bait and switch Posted by: BST
The one time I opened a bridal magazine I felt like I was looking at porn.
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Oct 21, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The pornographer faces one serious obstacle in all this: Men are human beings. No matter how emotionally deformed by the toxic conception of masculinity that is dominant in a patriarchal culture such as the United States, we are human beings with hearts, minds and souls.

Unfortunately, Jensen reveals with this statement rather abundantly that he himself doesn't view men as human beings either, but rather as pawns in the feminist ideological battle over sexual politics. This necessitates using the most extreme and emotionally charged examples he can find to make his overly stretched point.

America hasn't been a "patriarchy" in at least a century. The inconvenient fact is it's the most feminized countries (i.e., The West, generally) which are the most porn-permissive cultures. The most porn-restrictive cultures are the most traditional and patriarchal, where women are the most oppressed and abused (Middle East, China, India, etc.). It is in the former where The New Sexism portrays masculinity as "toxic", and barely if ever gives men credit for being anything other than testosterone poisoned beasts or bumbling incompetent idiots. (Jensen evidently has no concern for such degradation.) Is it any wonder men don't have any reason to believe women actually like them?

I think Jensen just doesn't want to face the fact that men are voting en masse with their feet by finding porn, however crummy it generally is, better on the whole of it than today's women. Women control the economy of eros, so it must be obvious why most resent porn: porn undercuts their monopolistic lock on the market, and they feel that they are being forced to compete with an unrealistic ideal contrived by male fantasies (something which they most adamantly resist doing) -- just as men feel the same way when they view the sort of cardboard cutout portrayals of men in female porn, which is pretty much ubiquitous on mainstream network TV. The difference is female porn is celebrated, with shows like Sex & The City being claimed to be "empowering".

Instead of trying to understand all this, Jensen's knee-jerk neanderthal response is to try and play the traditional male role of woman's protector and hero by trying to shame men and calling them all sorts of unkind names rather than place the responsibility in its correct location. Yea, he may get a pat on the head from feminists, but it's my view that partial vision is evil, and that's what he most exhibits by focusing on only one part of the picture. The constructive way to approach the many men who have backed off from women would seem to be anything other than lecturing at them in disgust like some church lady.

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Gee whiz!
Posted by: left-leaning-libertarian on Oct 21, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The economy is crumbling around us; the filthy facist GOP is doing everything it can to steal another election, our natural resources are rapidly disappearing and global climate change threatens to send us the way of the dinosaurs. . .but all Robert Jensen can talk about is . . . PORN?????

Pointless and PATHETIC!

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» RE: Gee whiz! Posted by:
» RE: Gee whiz! Posted by: goeswithness
Beware the Blindspot in this article: It misses the psychological needs of a deflated male ego.
Posted by: batmagoo on Oct 21, 2008 11:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To assume that all men enjoy porn on the same level is also an objectification of masculinity. The author states: "To see the woman as a person deserving of respect -- to see her as fully human -- would interfere with getting it up and getting it off." Of course his article is written to imply that anyone who might take issue with him is deluded, as he once was, etc.... - Human sexual relationships as ordained by a well-meaning society are great, and might provide a good front, but might well have become an obstacle to male sexual pleasure, as only feminine pleasure and preference are an acceptable topic in our modern-day paradigm; women actually do control the economics of modern sexuality in almost all aspects of culture -- a previous comment posted by Martianbachelor is absolutely on the money ) I would offer that the idea that our society is simply "patriarchal" is pretty much a great act of spin, at this point, and that it is such common practice to infantalize men' s preferences in our world, that porn may well have become one of the last areas where men can experience and express their very real primal evolutionary urges for sexual power, without feeling judgment or criticism - Porn may well be a societal answer to the emasculation through shame of our world -- it may actually fulfill a compensatory function for the male psyche... Keep in mind that the Macy's catalog wedding-gown page is also pornography to many women, albeit of a different kind, but there may never be a right or wrong form of sexual desire as nature is very permissive and has been so since time immemorial. It is a mistake to see porn as an aggressive act by default as it is a mistake to see men as sexually aggressive in evolution - nature seeks out the paths of least resistance and nobody is at fault for the roles assigned - There is and was never any culprit in the sexual game of domination/submission... If we are truly progressive, then we must recognize Evolution's role in sexual fantasy for what it's worth...Pornography may simply be an attempt to restore animal sanity to the modern urbanized man -- emasculated as he is...

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Thank you, Mr. Jensen for...
Posted by: Coleman on Oct 21, 2008 12:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...using your considerable writing skills to lead the Left into the ideological minefield from which there is no escape. Thanks a lot, really. That's exactly what we need right now. Psyche!

Bottom line: under capitalism, many people earn wages in dangerous occupations. Take soldiers (for an example that usually escapes liberal sympathies) or fire fighters or deep-sea fisherman. There's also a broad spectrum of degrading occupations. I'd include any retail service job in this category, as well as the third world immigrant scrubbing the toilets in your office building (who is so poor that she watches her porn on VHS!), and also porn actresses, sure.

And in all these situations there are currents of sexism and racism, that demand special analysis. The proliferation of violent or degrading imagery is a worthy phenomenon of study. Our popular porn does say something about our culture, just like any other "text". Our fantasies are not entirely our own.

But that analysis is possible without the quite unbelievable moralizing sermons that we've endured from Jensen on AlterNet for the past year. Aside from being boring, they're theoretically suspect.

Again, let's compare two of the exploited: soldier and porn actress. [And we need not mention again the difference in sympathy we would encounter from the typical liberal, a token of his hypocrisy]. A prohibition (legal or ethical) against certain kinds of porn no more liberates the porn actress than a peace treaty with Russia (or whoever) liberates the soldier. Both laws, if they were ever to come to pass, would leave open the black market space of transgression in the form of illegal porn and mercenaries. Indeed, this is already the case.

The only scenario that frees both the soldier and the porn actress is their liberation from the very compulsion to sell themselves on the market, liberation from the absolute injustice everywhere, from the safest and most air-conditioned retail spaces to the filthiest brothel. And toward that end, the Left needs to disassociate itself with guilt-peddling, miserable, moralizing liberals who cherry pick victims to sell their well-researched books.

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» RE: Thank you, Mr. Jensen for... Posted by: curiousdwk
"They suffer least, who suffer what they choose..!"
Posted by: TJColatrella on Oct 21, 2008 1:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting there never seems to be any lack of attractive young women more than willing to be so degraded..

The author omitted the growing success of sites featuring S&M and there seems to be a growth in those with equal financial success and popularity..does the author see them as degrading for either the male or female acting as the submissive..?

Let's also consider that this "degradation" is also a symptom and response to the Women's Liberation movement, and the fact that men feel they are in the courts nothing less than fodder for the machinery and industry that has become..so ridiculously slanted all too often against them..

It seems to me the author has her own issues in regard to pornography and this is not to argue it has negative effect upon those who consume great amounts of it or even addicted to it..and it is addictive and causes depression and usual these days linked to over exposure online also addictive and a cause of depression..

The onset of Aids also turned many towards pornography as it had an effect upon the chances for men to met and share a sexual relationship with a woman on a casual basis as prior to the Aids outbreak occurred..

Often in these multiple partner type films it is also pretty obvious the women involved are hardly under duress, or less than willing to have multiple men penetrate them and their own references to themselves are that of "slut" and "whore"...and this seems to stimulate them as well as the degrading language the men use to make reference to them...

To sum up there is an old saying that comes to mind and seems applicable and that being:

"They suffer least, who suffer what they choose..!"

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Maybe porn will become passe
Posted by: lewb on Oct 21, 2008 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the access explosion
to pornography,maybe it will become commonplace and passe,one can hope. I agree with the analysis that more graphic,violent perverted,sexual acts on screen is a looming menace to us all. Information disseminated about this menace is a valuable tool to stem this tide. some mechanism to take the profit motive out of this is also needed.I hope other solutions will surface to derail this profit at any price corporate strategy.

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Pornography: Threat or Menace?
Posted by: buschthebearrefreshing on Oct 21, 2008 1:32 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is one of the many reasons why I sometimes can't take AlterNet seriously. In all such articles, it seems like you're trying to out-Meese Meese and the abominable "study" he released in 1986. And so, I wasn't the least bit surprised when Robert Jensen admitted to being a part of the feminist anti-"pornography" movement. In a word: Bias [just like Meese].

With that in mind, there is one thing about which Jensen did surprise me: He forgot to mention those terrible mind-destroying deadly threats to the world, the nonexistent snuff films!

Oh, well. The next time you publish such an article, maybe you can produce an article that is about the amount of damage caused by reading/watching/listening to pornography while the air conditioner is running on the hottest day of the year.

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Oh really?
Posted by: Explorer on Oct 21, 2008 5:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The line "men typically consume pornography specifically to avoid love and affection" is blatantly false. The reason they resort to pornography is because of a lack of access to love and affection. Who would ever choose a substitute over the real thing? And when I read the statement that "men are conditioned to see themselves as dominant over women" I stopped believing that the author is actually male. I think these are the kinds of beliefs that are typically carried by women who are looking for outside influences to blame a lack of successful relationships on so they won't have to examine their own behavior too closely.

I suggest comparing different cultures from different places and time periods to see if there is more violence against women and more lack of equality in the ones with more puritannical attitudes. The failure to notice that is the biggest similarity between the far right and the far left.

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You've been feminized
Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 21, 2008 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You sound like a man that has read too many books about sex written by women.

There is a VERY large contingent of men that don't know what you're referring to with all your talk of "feelings." These men are out there to impregnate women at a rapid pace.

The vast majority don't bother raising their kids.

You've been brainwashed by feminists and their pseudo-intellectual psycho-babble.

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» RE: You've been feminized Posted by: sanaa
I no longer read Robert Jensen on this topic
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 21, 2008 10:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He has a really raw habit of stretching the limits... making legitimate really insightful observations then destroying those with half-crazed wild unsubstantiated connections that just don't fly.

Then the usual feeding frenxy by the anti-porn whackos and the defenders of good gonzo fuckage lash back, blah blah blah yada yada flim flam.

Bottom line, Robert, you're so good but you're also so full of shit. I'm not reading you any more.

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PUT MAINSTREAM-DEGRADING-EXPENSIVE PORN OUT OF BUSINESS...
Posted by: Democratic Socialist on Oct 21, 2008 10:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...by using YouPorn.com - free, amateur, extensive....have some fun and create your own with your partner and help to lead people away from degrading mainstream porn and in to reality.

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Charme secret de la bourgeosie
Posted by: talkville on Oct 22, 2008 1:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If one were to analyze pornography, not only in its filmic but also in other more actual versions, in a kind of Freudian way, it could be supposed that its desired object might be seen as direct and un-limited access to and (expression of) the human Id in service of exploitation. Hence its inestimable and continuous power in the generation of astronomical profits. It could be said it's simply the more un-varnished and raw of the stimulations daily utilized to 'stimulate' "the economy".

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If porn is so very very bad...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Oct 22, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THEN WHERE ARE ALL THE ALTERNET ARTICLES WRITTEN AGAINST PORNOGRAPHY BY FORMER FEMALE PERFORMERS?????????

WHEN DO WE ACTUALLY GET TO HEAR THE VOICES OF WOMEN WHO HAVE ACTUALLY WORKED IN THE INDUSTRY, RATHER THAN SCOLDS WHO TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES TO SPEAK FOR THEM ABOUT THEIR SUPPOSED PAIN AND EXPLOITATION???

If it is so bad, then there should be truckloads of them.... but Alternet never has them write an article. I have to wonder why.

When do we actually get to hear from any of these supposed victims firsthand????

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» My point was... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Pornography = synthetic life for the personally inadequate.
Posted by: wisegalah on Oct 22, 2008 5:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A mature, loving and intelligent person does not need pornography.

As a good friend of mine wrote some time ago; "Penile contact with a thousand vaginas does not amount to a single loving encounter with a complete woman."

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Jensen is unqualified to write about this subject
Posted by: Levon on Oct 23, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jensen is a journalist not a psychologist or psychiatrist. His attempts at psychological profiling of men who use porn is inadequate. His evaluations of why men use or don't use porn say more about his psychological makeup than about the men he is attempting to stereotype. He should stick to his area of expertise - journalism, and leave the psych stuff to the professionals.

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It's Called Ability
Posted by: glorybe on Oct 23, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The notion that porn degrades women is simplistic at best. What we are seeing is some people's gut feeling that certain sex acts in porn are "dirty" and that the female is degraded or taken advantage of.
In fact these women do not belong in the industry if they can not enjoy the sexual acts that they help to sell to the public. They are able. They are liberated. They also make a lot of money.
What is degrading is being forced to flip hamburgers when a woman could be making thousands per day in the porn industry.

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Way Off Base
Posted by: sptunik on Oct 23, 2008 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The thing adult entertainment, whether you are on camera, behind the scenes, a cultural crusader like Jensen, or a cop on an internet sex sting, or a consumer: It's not a world you want to get too deeply involved in. Don't stay too long at the fair. And I think Jensen has been on the the ferris wheel way, way too long.

Porn producers are not going to have any idea what men want to see any more than Jensen does, or what it's purpose is-- and I agree with the other critics who have responded here who note that his article is full of generalizations.

Here are my own: Most men have a part of themselves that fetishizes aggression. However, most men will actually recoil from aggression after they've seen depictions of it repeatedly. They take a step back, they say, "What am I doing?" And they move on. This is just what I've observed. For every guy that gets sucked in deeper, and falls into the addicts cycle of needing escalating stimulation, there are five guys who go the opposite direction. When they actually see what they may have fantasized about-- occasionally and briefly-- it becomes a turn-off.

That's porn's real dirty secret. Most men get sick of it. And if you've seen others doing something abusive on screen, and been repelled by it, you're probably less likely to try it at home.

Jensen should probably find another field of study. No one should work in the porn industry for more than a few years. He seems to see himself in a very different category from the porn producers themselves, but this distinction is lost on me. He describes the acts in such vivid detail that... methinks he doth protest a bit too much. All he's doing is drawing more attention to aberrant behavior, and most of us have had quite enough of that. I, too, am sick of the way porn has invaded our culture-- the slutty reality TV stars, leaked sex tapes, entrapment by organizations like Perverted Justice, sleazy show like SUV Law and Order. They are all working in the porn business, and they've cheapened our society. If you don't like it, don't buy their products, don't participate. Or if you do, have a look and move on. I know Jensen thinks he's helping, but I respectfully disagree.

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Another "expert" professor without a CLUE
Posted by: PointMan on Oct 23, 2008 10:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a patriarchal society driven by the predatory values of capitalism, we should be very afraid.

Oh?

You mean the values of capitalism where DC run corporate crime bails out its fellow criminals under martial law on the public dime? That's not a society run on "capitalism" and hasn't been for a long, long time. Try a "predatory" police state.

The dirty, dangerous secret about porn?

If men got all the sex they needed, porn (and its supposedly horrid effects on culture) wouldn't exist. Neither would wannabe "experts" on porn.

This piece and the bulk of its unsupported fear mongering assumptions are a crock.

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Some people have nasty fantasy lives...so what?
Posted by: scenery on Oct 24, 2008 7:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"What's next? What comes after DPs and double anals? What is beyond a "10 Man Cum Slam" and "50 Guy Cream Pie"?"


Wanting love and affection?

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» Hey, some people enjoy DP Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Porno Schmorno
Posted by: jmmartin on Oct 25, 2008 11:19 AM   
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"But pornography doesn't draw on the emotions most commonly connected with sex -- love and affection -- because men typically consume pornography specifically to avoid love and affection."

Here we go again with the "typical," which is like "normal" in that reference is made to some mythical consumers of X-rated materials. Did it never occur to the writer that there are a wide variety of reasons why men (and some women) consume porno? For example, a man might have E.D. and might not be inclined to use prescription drugs, or they might be in a situation where real live sexual outlets are simply minimal or non-existent. And what about the people who have a phobia about contact with others, e.g. in the Age of AIDS. I suspect that the motives for using porno are just as varied as the people who don't. You don't say, "Typically, a non-porno user is an uptight moral casuist who only screws in the missionary position for the purpose of siring offspring." So why this "typical" stuff -- a logical fallacy, by the way.

Lest you say, "Methinks he doth protest too much," I can head you off at the pass and admit it.

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Sanity
Posted by: hackbut on Oct 25, 2008 3:40 PM   
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I'm 68 years old and have a wife who has depised me since we were married even though by objective standards I'm a pretty good guy. For various reasons women have never sought me out sexually although they otherwise like me.

I use porn to keep it alive and perhaps to keep myself younger. I thoroughly dislike the most exploitative porn and would like to find a source of what I might call affectionate porn. I'm not talking about a plot as in a movie but I am talking about encouinters, perhps with a bit of fantasy and role playing, where there is regard for the humanity of both parties so that it looks like something that might actually happen to normal people.

Some years ago I recall interesting comments that one of the reasons the authorities did not move more strongly against porn was that as long it did not show any facsimile of love it served the purposes of the puritanical and authoritarian by making sex look degrading and therefore turning people off on it, and that the porn they would crcack down on would be that which looked attractive, and thus there is no crackdown.

If we were all sexually fulfilled it would be a great world, and more importantly a lot harder to control. Ideally we would all be in relationships where each person's purpose would be to cherish and care for the other (and perhaps get the same back) but failing that we would all be liberated by the kind of softer porn which increasingly unavailable today.

Maybe again it's just the man and the suits taking our freedom away by making porn as disgusting and violent as possible.

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porn is in eye of beholder
Posted by: whealeydj on Oct 26, 2008 5:58 AM   
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when I was in college 25 years ago a friend of of mine there are two types of men, those who masturbate and those who say they dont. Porn is for those who masturbate, so the porn producers who says they just want the sex scene and skip the lame attempts at plot and dialogue that were tried in 1970s and 1980s is probably right.I also find porn pretty boring and repetitive . I certainly dont understand those who are into violence and degradation. a real , which are turn offs for me. i dont understand how people make money on it now that it is on the internet.

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porn teaches some bad lessons
Posted by: whealeydj on Oct 26, 2008 6:12 AM   
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as does mainstream media about sex (love) being only for young and atrractive. and porn does not teach one anything how to have an actual relationship with another human being or how to get to a relationship. The sooner a young man can leave it behind the better. The pron Jensen describes sounds pretty disgusting, but one persons erotica is porn to others.

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Men
Posted by: Dr T on Oct 26, 2008 8:02 PM   
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Testosterone makes men simple, strong and stupid. It's our psychobiology. There's a limit to Gonzo porn and we are probably reaching it. So long as we continue to enforce laws against violent behavior toward women, we should do OK.

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» RE: Men Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
Assumptions are not facts
Posted by: agoodbadhabit on Oct 29, 2008 7:55 AM   
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"(T)he kind of cruelty and degradation that I am describing" clearly illustrates that the author is approaching the subject only from his own particular morality. His failure to recognize that his values and assumptions may not be held by the film participants makes this article an uninformed opinion piece and nothing more.

I personally know women who enjoy participation in such activities; the "cruelty" and "degradation," if a factor at all, is part of the scene.

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The political value of porn
Posted by: jc1234 on Nov 7, 2008 11:44 AM   
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It seems to me, since the GOP has the so-called religious right in their back pocket, the GOP can point to the proliferation of gonzo porn to further infuriate their base (increase their self loathing) and swing pure fascism into the mainstream arena of political thought. Oops ... too late for the warning.

The religious right will think that its a 'librul' America thing not fully understanding how China and India has populated their countries with such overwhelming and food-resource-scary numbers of people. Apparently the religous types think the indians and chinese just got married and had some kids and voila' a billion plus people are generated because they just wanted another 'miracle' of birth that they wanted to love and nurture into adulthood.

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