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Amid Anti-Immigrant Fervor, ICE Deporting More American Citizens

The war on 'illegal immigration' is a war on poor people, U.S. citizens among them.
June 10, 2008  |  
 
 
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A headline in the San Francisco Chronicle screams, 900 Nabbed in State on Immigration Charges. The Seattle Times reports, Feds Combing Jails for Illegal Immigrants. An AP article declares, Immigration Raid in Iowa Largest Ever in US and reports 390 arrests. In 2007, more than 276,912 US residents were deported. Thanks to a recent Bush Administration crackdown, the net cast by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE) is wide--so wide, it turns out, that some of those being deported are US citizens.

Is ICE an efficient law enforcement agency? Or, in the words of Robert, 38, a US citizen twice deported to Mexico, is ICE "just throwing us out for nothing"?




Consider what happened to Peter Guzman. Last year Guzman, a US citizen born in Los Angeles in 1977, drove onto the tarmac of a regional airport in his hometown of Lancaster, about eighty miles northeast of Los Angeles, boarded a charter plane without a ticket and refused to get off. Guzman was arrested and sentenced, and served forty-one days in a Los Angeles County jail. According to his lawyer, Mark Rosenbaum of the Southern California ACLU, Guzman was excited about being released in time for his brother's July wedding in Las Vegas. "It was a big deal to Peter. He was going to be the best man." It never occurred to Guzman that in July he'd be eating garbage and bathing in the Tijuana River.



But on May 11, 2007, he called his family and said he'd been deported. According to the ACLU lawsuit, before his sister-in-law could find out exactly where he was and give him instructions, the line was cut. She overheard him ask, "Where am I?"




In early August 2007, after Guzman had spent three months trying to return, his appeal to a border agent in Calexico was finally successful: Guzman was arrested for missing his first probation hearing and brought back to Los Angeles. ICE says it has Guzman's signature on a voluntary departure agreement. Guzman's attorneys say the signature was coerced and that it is never legal to deport a US citizen.



Gary Mead, ICE assistant director for detention and removal, testified at a Congressional hearing in February that Guzman's case is unique. But California Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren calls Guzman the "poster child" for an epidemic of detaining and deporting US citizens by ICE. Kara Hartzler, an attorney at the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP), agrees with Lofgren. Last year Hartzler's staff of six attorneys provided presentations and occasionally individual advice to more than 8,000 detainees in southern Arizona. About 10 percent of people ICE detains nationwide are sent to Florence and nearby Eloy, about sixty miles south of Phoenix. Hartzler testified, "The deportation of US citizens is not happening monthly, or weekly, but every day."



ICE does not keep records on cases in which detainees claim to be US citizens. If larger trends are consistent with the pattern in Hartzler's caseload, since 2004 ICE has held between 3,500 and 10,000 US citizens in detention facilities and deported about half. US citizens are a small percentage of ICE detentions for this period, which totaled around 1 million, but in absolute terms the figure is staggering.



Phone interviews suggest the higher end may be more accurate. I called fifteen private immigration attorneys whose names appear on a Justice Department list of pro bono attorneys in Los Angeles and left messages asking whether they had clients in the past three years who were US citizens held in ICE detention for at least one month. Seven of them called back, each describing one to four clients who meet these criteria. Using these accounts, and those from attorneys at three nonprofit immigration clinics, I documented thirty-one cases from across the country of US citizens, eight born here, incarcerated as aliens for one month to five years. Fourteen were deported. Five remain in detention.




Between 2001 and 2007 Robert, who requested that his last name be withheld, was incarcerated for five years and deported to Tijuana twice because ICE refused to believe he was a US citizen. Robert described meeting seventeen other US citizens in ICE detention. Robert was born in Mexico in 1970 and orphaned at age 4. When he was 8 his uncle from Baldwin Park, California, adopted him. In 1983 he became a legal permanent resident, automatically acquiring US citizenship.



In 2000 Robert was arrested for a DWI and evading arrest. After serving sixteen months, he was transferred to El Centro Detention Facility, about 100 miles east of San Diego, where ICE set about deporting him as a criminal alien.






Robert told the court and his attorney, to whom he paid $5,000, that he was a US citizen, but his lawyer did not submit the necessary documents, and Robert lost the case. Robert believed an appeal was hopeless. The year he'd spent in detention was enough: "I decided to leave and come back [to the United States] the next day."



In February 2002 Robert disembarked from the ICE van in Tijuana with an order forever banishing him from the United States. The next day his sister-in-law picked him up and they drove into the United States together, telling the border agent they were US citizens, which they are. They drove to their homes in a Los Angeles suburb.



In 2003 Robert, fearful of being turned over to ICE, sped away from a police car signaling him to pull over. He was sent to a deportation center in Chino and had a video hearing: "You face the TV and some little judge is inside TV talking to you." He explained that he was a US citizen. The little judge ruled otherwise and told Robert an appeal would take nine months. Robert decided to repeat the 2002 routine. ICE again dropped him off in Tijuana.




Robert told the US patrol agent apprehending him during the middle of the night in the hills of El Centro, "I am a US citizen." The agent charged Robert with falsely impersonating a US citizen and other felonies associated with an illegal border crossing. The public defender told Robert to plead guilty to the impersonation charge, or he'd face additional time for entering the United States as an illegal immigrant. "I said, 'No, I can't. There's no way. I'm trying to tell you, my dad is a US citizen. I am a US citizen.' I told the judge that the things they're charging me with are not true, but I have no choice and if that's what it will take for me to go faster to my family, I will plead to that." Robert served three years for falsely impersonating a US citizen.





In 2006 Robert was released into ICE custody at Terminal Island in San Pedro. At this hearing the immigration judge considered the information Robert had assembled in the prison library and realized he was probably a US citizen. Robert was released on bond to find the relevant documents and a lawyer. A few months later Robert and his new attorney, Veronica Villegas, went to the Los Angeles United States Citizenship and Immigration Services office. Villegas told me, "The agent looked at his papers and said, 'Congratulations! You've been a US citizen since 1983.'"




ICE has no jurisdiction over US citizens. If someone claims birth in the United States, as Guzman did, then ICE agents must have a "reasonable suspicion" for disbelief before detaining him. Racial profiling doesn't count. "Not speaking English, not being white and appearing to be from a Central American country is not enough," says Rebecca Musarra, of the Human Rights Impact Litigation Clinic of Washington College of Law. In practice, ICE detains thousands of people who were born in the United States and forces them to prove citizenship. According to Mario Quiroz at Casa de Maryland, which assists low-income Latinos, "People who have Spanish names, are five-four, have black hair, get profiled. At the end of the day, [ICE] only says, 'Oops, we made a mistake.' But somebody's life was messed up."




Proving citizenship can be tough, especially when the people who might help can't find you. An immigration judge, who requested anonymity, told me it was "notoriously common for people to be whisked away and nobody knows where they are. When you just want to get rid of someone, you don't want their family to know where they are. It's something that would happen in a Third World country. It's not something that should happen [here]."




Pastor Aquiles Rojas agrees. On October 11, 2007, he went to pick up his brother-in-law from a two-month sentence at the Honor Farm jail in Modesto, California. René Saldivar, 38, wasn't there. "They told me that immigration had taken him, and they didn't know where he was," says Rojas. He called everywhere: San Francisco, Sacramento, Arizona. "They told me they had no record of my brother-in-law. We thought maybe he was in Mexico, but we couldn't figure out why he didn't call. Certainly he was in trouble. We just wanted to find out where he's at." Saldivar's family was especially concerned because of Saldivar's impaired psychological condition.






After the family's five-month vigil, Saldivar called. He was in the Eloy Detention Center in Arizona. Saldivar told me, "I didn't have no money and no way of talking to nobody." The center allows collect calls but cellphone plans will not accept them. Eventually a stranger lent Saldivar a calling card. In February Saldivar explained his ancestry to an immigration judge, who concluded that Saldivar most likely was a foreign-born citizen--like John McCain and George Romney--and sent the case to FIRRP.




Hartzler told me she thought she could get Saldivar released at his hearing on April 9, but she had to track down the Social Security employment records of her client's deceased father to prove his citizenship. She wrote, "I don't think it's appropriate for government proceedings with consequences as severe as lifetime deportation to rely on nonprofit organizations for their safeguards. For every René, there's dozens of people with valid claims to US citizenship who are deported."




Detainees with psychological disabilities find it especially hard to navigate their release, but according to a FIRRP social worker, Erin Maxwell, "Even people who are not diagnosably mentally ill or developmentally challenged still don't really get [why they're in deportation proceedings], and it can be very scary." One client of hers was arrested for possessing drug paraphernalia and then detained at Eloy for four months. "He didn't bring up his citizenship with the judge," Maxwell said. "Then I met with him and he said, 'I don't know why this is happening. Both my parents are US citizens.'"



According to Nancy Morawetz, a New York University Law School professor supervising the Immigrant Rights Clinic, "a lot of people don't know they're citizens." The rules for foreign-born citizenship are complicated. Different laws apply to different years of birth. Since the state does not guarantee legal representation in civil cases, 90 to 95 percent of detainees lack attorneys. Even the immigration lawyers seem not to understand the laws, the immigration judge told me. So it's not surprising that Saldivar's eleven siblings are just learning that they, too, are US citizens.






For the millions of US citizens who are foreign-born, court precedents shift the burden of proving citizenship onto them. But the Fourteenth Amendment states that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" should be treated equally. Therefore, the Human Rights Impact Litigation Clinic is planning to challenge the constitutionality of the burden of proof placed on US citizens born abroad.



Finally, it was April 9, and Saldivar had his hearing, where his documentation was deemed insufficient. The Social Security Administration's annual employment records in Arizona went back only to 1959. ICE wanted the additional two years to verify Isidoro Saldivar's US residence the entire ten years before René's birth in 1967. Hartzler was hoping the Washington office had the fifty-one-year-old employment records. René would begin his eighth month in detention.




Giving Saldivar his liberty while ICE figured out the paperwork would have made sense because of his family's roots in Stanislaus County, going back to 1940. In addition, NYU's Morawetz says that doing otherwise may be unlawful: "I believe they don't have the power to put a detainer on someone and figure it out later. It's an abuse of the detention power. They only have jurisdiction over people who are noncitizens."




When ICE detains and deports US citizens, it is not only illogical; it also can be false imprisonment, a felony. When I asked Rosenbaum, Guzman's ACLU attorney, why the government wasn't prosecuting ICE agents for civil rights and criminal violations, he laughed and said, "Good luck!" Rosenbaum said the ACLU's complaint was alleging false imprisonment, but US Attorneys were defending the government in the lawsuit. No US Attorneys have stepped forward to prosecute ICE agents. Meanwhile, immigration judges, many of whom are patronage appointments from the Bush Administration or former ICE agents, entertain the flimsiest of arguments on behalf of deportation.



The case of Anna (not her real name), arrested in Phoenix on October 8, 2007, for prostitution, is particularly tragic. When the police asked for her place of birth she answered, "Paris." When applying under another name for a US passport, in 1991, Anna wrote that she was from Tehran. According to Hartzler, Anna also claims JFK is her father and the Pope is her father. Anna is from France the way that Borat is from Kazakhstan. In February 2007 an Arizona Superior Court dismissed drug charges against Anna, finding her "unable to understand the nature of the proceedings" as well as "criminally incompetent and a danger to herself and others." Anna has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic.



On October 9, based only on her claim to have been born in Paris, Anna was taken to the Eloy Detention Center, where an ICE agent took full note of her US passport application and "8 different aliases, and 2 SSNs." On February 20 immigration judge Thomas Michael O'Leary, who had Anna's records, including the diagnoses of the court psychiatrists, issued an order to remove Anna from the country. The French consulate refused to issue travel documents for her, telling ICE that Anna is not a French citizen. Having been possibly stripped of her citizenship rights in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment and the Americans With Disabilities Act, Anna will be held in detention for at least three months. If released, she is not functional enough to attend the meetings ICE requires of aliens remaining in the country with deportation orders. A warrant for her arrest will be issued, and in her next encounter with law enforcement the warrant will trigger an arrest. Kristine Brisson, the ICE agent initiating Anna's removal, did not return messages requesting comment. Judge O'Leary has been promoted to run the Tucson Immigration Court.




Anna's case may seem unusual, but US citizens with mental disabilities reflect the criminal inmate population ICE targets. According to a 2006 Justice Department press release, about 40 percent of the incarcerated population has "symptoms of mania." Twenty-four percent of the jail population and 15 percent of state prisoners have a "psychotic disorder, such as delusions or hallucinations." Rachel Rosenbloom of the Center for Human Rights and International Justice in Boston testified to Congress, "It is not uncommon for someone who is mentally ill and suffering from delusions to state that he or she was born abroad." By using the incarcerated population as its hunting grounds, ICE is inevitably going to snare mentally ill US citizens. The immigration judge observed, "If you don't have your marbles, or someone on the outside, there's no safety net."




Carlos Barrios, a Los Angeles private attorney who has represented US citizens in detention, notes, "It is strange. How can they keep a person detained in an immigration facility if they're a citizen?"



In response to different versions of this question from members of Congress in February, ICE's Mead pretended that the events brought before him did not exist. He repeated the law stating that ICE has no jurisdiction over US citizens, and then affected ignorance of ICE agents detaining US citizens. Mead was in the same room as US citizens testifying to ICE abuse. At one point Illinois Democrat Luis Gutierrez exploded in frustration over Mead's failure to have any comment on a racial-profiling incident in Chicago during which ICE detained more than 100 Latino men: "Thank you very much for not knowing any of the information about a very well-publicized case on which Secretary Chertoff has been well informed!"




The official line, as ICE public affairs officer Brandon Alvarez-Montgomery explained it to me, is that ICE does not "knowingly detain US citizens." This is false. Hartzler showed an ICE attorney the Minnesota birth certificate of Thomas Warziniack, and yet ICE held him for two weeks until his hearing. Morawetz described a citizen in detention whose attorney faxed a New York birth certificate "and detention says, 'How do we know this is that person's record?'" even though the law requires ICE to prove otherwise.



While Saldivar remained in detention, I sent Alvarez-Montgomery the details of his case, explaining that Social Security employment records for Saldivar's father did not exist before 1959. He responded, "Anyone who[se] first year of earnings were recorded between 1937 to the present will appear on the Social Security statement. For this case, it's safe to assume that 1959 was the first year of recorded earnings for his father."




Alvarez-Montgomery was wrong. Later, using ancestry.com, I found a Railroad Retirement Board (RRB) record for Isidoro Saldivar from before 1951. I sent it to Alvarez-Montgomery and other ICE officials. They did not reply or release René. I sent it to Hartzler, who contacted the RRB, which provided records of "compensation received by René's father each year from 1947 to 1958, as well as a copy of his application for a Social Security card in 1947." Hartzler gave these to ICE, which held René for six more days, releasing him on April 28.






Shortly after that I asked Saldivar, who was drywalling his sister's home in Chowchilla, how he understood what happened. "Someone took me to prison, even though I had my papers. It's bad. It's not fair," he told me. ICE alleged that René lacked legal permission to reside in the United States. Even if ICE is correct, the charge of undocumented residence is a minor civil infraction that requires release to be disputed and is not a crime. ICE's false imprisonment of US citizens and other legal residents, however, is a serious crime.


Jacqueline Stevens is an associate professor in the Law and Society Program at the University of California, Santa Barbara. She is completing her second book States without Nations.
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Carry ID!
Posted by: colinmeister on Jun 10, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a legal immigrant, but not a US citizen, I always carry my DHS Permanent Resident Card in my wallet. If I were ever to become a citizen - very unlikely, unless I wanted to live outside the US and still claim social security, I would make a point of carrying my US passport at all times. I don't fit the "Profile" mentioned in the article for people likely to be given grief by ICE, but my British accent might attract attention. Maybe all US citizens should carry their passports at all times, especially 5'4" tall Spanish speakers with black hair? It would be hard for ICE operatives to detain a US passport holder.

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» RE: Carry ID! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Carry ID! Posted by: john mont
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: delwyncole
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: delwyncole
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: john mont

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ICE could do a better job
Posted by: metoo on Jun 10, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt mistakes are made. No doubt there will be a small percentage that may deserve their day in court. There may even be criminal activity on the part of some officers, but overall we need to know who is in this country and if they have come here legally. If we can discount Immigration Law then we can also discount traffic laws, tax laws, any and all laws. Compassion for Mexicans or anyone is no excuse. Compassion for businesses that need a subservient labor force is no excuse either. If all it takes is compassion to justify illegal entry then compassion for the guy who's late for work and drives over a pedestrian doing 100mph is also a reasonable excuse for leniency.

Shooting guns off into the air has been a long standing tradition in St. Petersburg Florida, it's illegal but it was overlooked by the police, until two days ago when a guy, standing in the street, shooting up in the air at a party ended up getting shot and killed by the police when confronted and refusing to drop the gun because shooting in the air is OK in his mind and he didn't need to drop his gun.

Sneaking across the border is illegal first, working without the proper documentation is second, and the illegal activity just mounts from there. One broken law after another.

Sure we should be informed when the job of catching criminals is not perfect but that doesn't translate into criminalizing the law maker and/or enforcer.

I'm all for making it easier to be documented and to enter the country legally, what I am not agreeable too is allowing criminal activity at our citizens expense.

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» Yo, did you read the article??? Posted by: whathaway
» Yo, did YOU read the article??? Posted by: newtype_alpha
» RE: ICE could do a better job Posted by: Prairie Waif

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WTF!!
Posted by: whathaway on Jun 10, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is so insane!

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Proving you are a US CITIZEN?!
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jun 10, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been my FEAR since moving to Canada to live with my Maternal Grandmother. Now, I see my fears are reality.

I signed papers at the US EMBASSY when it was located on #6 Donald Street in Winnipeg, Manitoba and was issued a Proof of US CITIZENSHIP document, similar in size, and with photo ID, of a Driver's license. It was "effective" until 1986. After that? They stopped issuing them and, under Reagan's "Morning in America!" the embassy was closed; the closest being 14 hours away in Calgary, Alberta.

I was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota at Fairview Hospital in 1963. I have, what I think is a souvenir-type birth certificate. How to get my real one since both parents are deceased and the siblings "have better things to do?"

Hence, I keep asking, "How long before I can come HOME?"

My mother was *legally* a Canadian citizen, naturalized the November after my January birth. My father was born in Huron, South Dakota.

I spent the first year of my life in the custody of my Maternal Grandmother, here in Brandon, Manitoba while my mother was in a Sanitarium for Tuberculosis.

I did all my high school and lived at home; USA, until I returned to look after Grandma in 1982.

I've always considered myself a dual-citizen due to my birth history, as does the Canadian Government.

I am too poor to apply for a US Passport and have, now, lived more than half my life in Canada. Could I even cross the border by car? I have serious doubts and I cannot afford to test the theory by going to the border to see if, what USED TO BE CUSTOMS AND IMMIGRATION but is now Department of Homeland Security. Just the change in terminology of the labeling on the border crossing gives me pause to say, "When can I come home?" because I wonder if "home" still exists, or is it really a fascist state masquerading as a Democratic Republic as framed in the Constitution?

My question? What will ICE decide to label me?

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» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: republicanwriter
» The law has changed. Posted by: colinmeister
» oh no, you might have to be a Canadian. Posted by: BlueBerry PickN

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It's all just a dry run
Posted by: bryangalt on Jun 10, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The attitude of denial from the top bootlicker's appointed by Bush shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. I mean, let's face it, if you are part of the Bush team, your criminal, immoral and reprehensible behavior is accepted and overlooked by the media

It's encouraged and pardoned by the jackass president, and it is denied as fact by the what have become the most-dimwitted citizens in American history.

If its okay to toss out American citizens because they are brown, it's a short trip to the next level of tossing out or simply throwing away those people that society feels deserve to go.

It's pretty much the way the Germany slipped into madness. They started off with a unifying patriotic event. Hitler muscled in the laws needed to increase spying in the Germans for any infraction that could make them seem unpatriotic, he fanned the flames of racism and provided a moral superiority argument that appeals to the ignorant, thus molding them into a mob that would happily kill developmentally disable people, Jews, Gypsy's, Gays, reporters, political opposition and the like.

But, when has history ever played a record twice? After all, American's are the purest, most generous and understanding group ever to grace Jesus' earth. We could never be something like the Germans.

That's true. We have already proven that we are worse...

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Typical
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jun 10, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, Sounds like any typical branch of the US Government. the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Nothing new here.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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» RE: Typical Posted by: HoboHomo

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A secret out-of-control government with no rules
Posted by: warble on Jun 10, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in the the 20’s and the 30’s, the US started deporting Anarchists or, if you prefer, union strikers when they demanded better wages. Under Harding, Coolidge, Hoover and our finest, Roosevelt, they just whisked you off the street and dumped you in another country.

Last year, I heard a story of a group of Federal Agents raiding a Chinese Restaurant inside of China Town in Philadelphia. According to the observer, they took everyone in custody that looked Chinese and told all the caucasions to leave. They would not even listen to Chinese Americans who tried to convince them that they were Americans.
They took away around 30 people.

One Chinese man returned to the scene of the crime and told his story. However, he said he did not know what happened to the others.

It seems that if anyone tried to find out, they would be confronted by a brick wall of silence. The government is not transparent.

It is a sad in America when even a citizen can not find out what happened. Tomorrow, it will be you. Whether they deport these people or even worse, kill them is up in the air.

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There's no question
Posted by: willymack on Jun 10, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That this "administration" and our country are FUBAR. Question is what's going to be done, and who's going to do it?

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» RE: There's no question Posted by: StirMan

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OKAY I'VE HAD ENOUGH.
Posted by: SOWILO on Jun 10, 2008 11:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have lived in Los Angeles for two years now. Illegal Immigrants are really horrible to work/deal/live with. Just five minutes ago, Illegals were working on my building, hosing the damn thing down. They hit the stupid pull-alarm with the hose, the alarm goes off, and literally with mouths hanging open, they keep working. I try to get them to stop, but no...

This is one of a million examples.

OK- has anyone ever thought about these Salmonella outbreaks in our veggies? Not only has this to do with corporate farming, but cultural issues in regards to hand washing which is a problem here. There have to be special signs in Spanish (which they cannot read anyway) to get them to wash their hands. Salmonella is spread through lack of sanitation. Illegal immigrants from rural farm communities without running water have not the habitual ritual of cleanliness. Ask yourself how long its taken you in YOUR life to erase a simple negative habit?

Think about it.

Where are the resources to get this group up to speed? Wait, we don't have them.

Living here has been a nightmare and most of this is related to these people.

Pro-Illegal advocates in the rest of the country need to know what's coming to their cities.

I used to be supportive of these people's plight, but now, after realizing the social decline caused by it, I cannot say that I support it any longer. The left has damaged every other issue in its agenda by supporting these people.

Enough is enough.

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» Black Ethnic Cleaning Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: Black Ethnic Cleaning Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: Black Ethnic Cleaning Posted by: JibreelRiley
» Liar! Posted by: Mexitli

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Do you ever think...
Posted by: SOWILO on Jun 10, 2008 11:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that maybe it IS illegal immigration that is pushing us more toward a police state? Do you think that MAYBE, just MAYBE this might not be good for our country?

Do you really think these corporations are going to send blackwater troops to college campuses to haul away liberal college professors or something?

Come on. Just wait until earthquake katrina when LA is going to be stampeded by a panicking group of illegal immigrants. How many are here? 3 million? Three million people with out ID's running around in the aftermath of a disaster.

This has nothing to do with "dissent." This has to do with COLLAPSE.

But its "all about race" right?

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» RE: Do you ever think... Posted by: StirMan
» RE: Do you ever think... Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» can i have your house? Posted by: Mexitli

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the ramifications go far beyond deportation...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Jun 10, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the cases discussed in the article show that it will be impossible to prove citizenship should you be seized as an "enemy combatant" under the military commissions act.. in which case you wont be shipped off to tijuana but rather guanatanamo or abu ghraib...

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nandtbearden
Posted by: nandtbearden on Jun 10, 2008 11:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am of mixed ethnicity - 3rd generation Irish & Dutch, 2nd generation Spanish, 1/32nd Eastern Band Cherokee (North Carolina), and 1/4 Mexican (or what I call "Texican"). (For those of you who have submitted the most ignorant of these posts, let me explain that saying "Spanish" is not the same as saying "Mexican." Spain is a European country, like Great Britain, France, and Germany. Native people from the southwestern and western U.S., Mexico, and Central and South America speak Spanish as their primary language because they were invaded and conquered by the Spanish before the establishment of the USA.)The reason I say "Texican" is because my 1/2 of my maternal ancestors have always lived within a 100-mile radius of El Paso, Texas. The border has moved over and around them through the generations, but they have never moved. That supposedly makes me part Mexican because they have spoken Spanish as their primary language for generations. I say I am "Texican" because when Texas became a state, they became citizens, Spanish-speaking and all.

Now to my point, this article isn't about whether it is right or wrong for people to come here without being able to "present their papers" (read with a stiff German accent a la Gestapo tactics).

This article was about the arrest, detention, and deportation of AMERICANS. Without due process. Without guaranteeing their safety. In total violation of their AMERICAN civil rights.

Do any of you xenophobes have anything to say about that? How can we sit by and allow this to happen?

Who will be next? It used to be African-Americans who were mistreated and denied their rights. Now it's brown-skinned people (like me).

How long until we admit that a significant number of Americans hold Hitler's dream of an uber-race near and dear to their hearts and will not be satisfied until USA stands for the United States of Aryans?

And for those of you with European heritage, did you know that there were no "Green Cards," "INS," and other such red tape to go through when the potato famine led to massive immigration from Ireland? Nor were these policies in place during WWI or WWII when Eastern European immigration was at its peak. Hmm...you flee here...persecuted, starving, illiterate and full of diseases previously unknown to this continent and then make rules so no one else can come in for a piece of the dream. Pretty selfish and arrogant. Too bad the Native Americans who met the Mayflower, et al didn't deport those undocumented illegals.

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» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: SOWILO
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You Know What.
Posted by: anonymous black writer on Jun 10, 2008 9:12 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It ain't no doubt in my mind that illegal immigration has some drawbacks-AS MUCH AS STRENGTHS. Some policies often do. But alot of America's problems and decline has to do with its own economic and social policies here and abroad. Half the reason immigrants are here now anyway is because we help cripple their economy and social infrastructure; and then created dumb economic and social policies that drained the countries of their wealth which did not do anything but encourage immigration.
Anyway,this country IS in decline and is becoming a police state but immigration as a factor in this sordid state of affairs in comparison to other reasons ranks pretty low on the list of reasons why in either case. We are becoming a police state largely because the elite knows it is ripping us off and know that their actions may at a later date encourage mass protest or violent resistance.The racism,sexism, religious bias and other forms of bigotry contribute too. Plus they are greedy and would love nothing better than to turn back the cloth. As it looks, they are well on their way of doing this if they already haven't. We have not always done right by ourselves either by not always reinforcing our rights, but even in the times when we have exercise these rights there has been notable successful efforts to quell resistance. Maybe not as bad as other countries but obvious nontheless. This sadly would be the case if immigrants were here or not. Many of these problems would not go away if all them were deported either.
I also feel people's concern about immigrants taking jobs, but alot of these business are greedy and don't want to pay folks so if it wasn't immigrants it would be prison or internment convicts who definitely would undercut wages. As a matter of fact, prison labor has taken the place of deported/striking immigrant labor in some cases. Anyway, alot of supporters of immigrant reform are xenophobic and racist in addition to being concerned about jobs. The fear of jobs is nothing but the rationale for this.Some of these folks haranguing immigrants are racist themselves and support/create organizations that are not that different in operation or ideology from the KKK or self- hating minorities who would scapegoat and persecute others if immigrants were not the focus.In the cases where they have not out and out promoted blatant racism, they have not done anything to stem the racists that are using these organizations as an umbrella for recruitment or support of their beliefs. So its the same difference.Some people may genuinely be more concerned about jobs than being xenophobic/racist/or self-hating, but alot of the opponents of illegal immigrations are racist. So people not racist should not underestimate this while they support this stuff.
Last of all, Latino vs Black incidents are going on. To say there are never incidences would be a lie.There are black vs. Latino incidences too where blacks rob immigrants of their money.There is no excuse for this, but we face genocide anyway. To lay this alot of this at the foot of current immigration is question. Some of those gangbangers shooting at blacks ain't helping matters but the causes of genocide are varied even with the hate crimes they commit.

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ICE Keeps No Records on Detainees Who Claim to be Citizens?!?!?
Posted by: thornwolf on Jun 11, 2008 4:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What kind of dysfunctional policy is that? Such official conduct amounts to a willful violation of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments to the US Constitution. The agents guilty of such violations technically lose their qualified immunity from personal prosecution and can be imprisoned.

It's about time charges are brought.

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damn, 3 years for 'impersonating an American': "I'm Afraid of Americans"
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 11, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm Afraid Of Americans
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh
Johnny's in America
LoJack at the wheel

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh
Nobody needs anyone
They don't even just pretend

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh
Johnny's in America

I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid for the World
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't

I'm afraid of Americans
Johnny's an American

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh

Johnny wants a plane
Johnny wants to suck on a Coke
Johnny wants a woman
Johnny wants to think of a joke

...
I'm afraid of Americans"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄

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Harmonizing North America's 'Universal ID' with RFID...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 11, 2008 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ontario working on RFID-embedded provincial ID card with Homeland Security approval

Katherine Albrecht speaks with Jeff Farias about RFID, CASPIAN & her thoroughly researched book, SpyChips.

Visualizing the privacy issues which put you at risk from money, power & corruption in a LockDown Nation.

"shock & awe-ful thing"s: "Taking Liberties" & forced drugging of Non-Americans on US flights

┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄

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WHY does Alternet allow lying headlines???
Posted by: Libsrule on Jun 11, 2008 6:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously.

I rarely meet anti IMMIGRANT people. Those are few and far between. WHAT the headline, had the author BEEN HONEST, should have said was, ANTI ILLEGAL FERVER.

BUT as usual the open borders and amnesty for all types, rely upon Karl Rove for how to frame a lie.

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Our Democratic Representatives and Senators
Posted by: Schroeder on Jun 11, 2008 9:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
need to begin to act like Democrats and stop measuring every action taken on how we will be able to elect another Democratic President. Until we stop allowing people like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to dictate the 'safe' path, the one that they feel will bring no negative press to the Democrats, we won't have a democrat in the Whitehouse. We will have another George Bush, in John McCain in the Whitehouse.

It's time for those in Washington who were elected to represent the people, not their own selfish interests or desire for re election to do the right thing! Enough!

If you are not going to lead, then GET OUT! LET SOMEONE LEAD WHO HAS THE SPINE TO MOVE FORWARD.

AND IF YOU CAN SCREW UP THE COURAGE TO LEAD, PLEASE HAVE THE DECENCY TO SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE WORLD, VIA IMPEACHMENT OF BUSH AND CHENEY, THAT WE AMERICANS DO NOT LIKE TO BE LIED TO BY OUR GOVERNMENT! FOR GOD'S SAKE, THERE ARE MORE THAN 4,000 DEAD AMERICANS, MANY THOUSAND WOUNDED AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF IRAQI'S MURDERED BY THIS RUTHLESS ADMINISTRATION. THIS DISGUSTING, CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR AND ASSAULT ON EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD ABOUT THIS COUNTRY HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

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Hey pro illegal alien supporter
Posted by: HBoyer on Jun 18, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can see where you are going.
OPEN BORDERS WITH CANADA AND MEXICO
THE FASCIST RUN "NORTH AMERICAN UNION"

NAFTA IS THE AMERICAN WORKERS "SHAFTA"
but free traders and the greedy rich
want a Mexico economy. Where Over 50% of
the workers live in poverty.

That is why open borders and the North American Union is being jammed down our throats.

Free traders like your are a cancer on our
country and will help to destroy the working
middle class and lead the majority of workers
into poverty and peasant status like we had
in the 1890's when the Robber Barons "Greedy rich" ran America.

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Alternet Comments:

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Carry ID!
Posted by: colinmeister on Jun 10, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a legal immigrant, but not a US citizen, I always carry my DHS Permanent Resident Card in my wallet. If I were ever to become a citizen - very unlikely, unless I wanted to live outside the US and still claim social security, I would make a point of carrying my US passport at all times. I don't fit the "Profile" mentioned in the article for people likely to be given grief by ICE, but my British accent might attract attention. Maybe all US citizens should carry their passports at all times, especially 5'4" tall Spanish speakers with black hair? It would be hard for ICE operatives to detain a US passport holder.

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» RE: Carry ID! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Carry ID! Posted by: john mont
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: delwyncole
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: delwyncole
» RE: It's The Law In California Posted by: john mont

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ICE could do a better job
Posted by: metoo on Jun 10, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt mistakes are made. No doubt there will be a small percentage that may deserve their day in court. There may even be criminal activity on the part of some officers, but overall we need to know who is in this country and if they have come here legally. If we can discount Immigration Law then we can also discount traffic laws, tax laws, any and all laws. Compassion for Mexicans or anyone is no excuse. Compassion for businesses that need a subservient labor force is no excuse either. If all it takes is compassion to justify illegal entry then compassion for the guy who's late for work and drives over a pedestrian doing 100mph is also a reasonable excuse for leniency.

Shooting guns off into the air has been a long standing tradition in St. Petersburg Florida, it's illegal but it was overlooked by the police, until two days ago when a guy, standing in the street, shooting up in the air at a party ended up getting shot and killed by the police when confronted and refusing to drop the gun because shooting in the air is OK in his mind and he didn't need to drop his gun.

Sneaking across the border is illegal first, working without the proper documentation is second, and the illegal activity just mounts from there. One broken law after another.

Sure we should be informed when the job of catching criminals is not perfect but that doesn't translate into criminalizing the law maker and/or enforcer.

I'm all for making it easier to be documented and to enter the country legally, what I am not agreeable too is allowing criminal activity at our citizens expense.

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» Yo, did you read the article??? Posted by: whathaway
» Yo, did YOU read the article??? Posted by: newtype_alpha
» RE: ICE could do a better job Posted by: Prairie Waif

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WTF!!
Posted by: whathaway on Jun 10, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is so insane!

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Proving you are a US CITIZEN?!
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jun 10, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been my FEAR since moving to Canada to live with my Maternal Grandmother. Now, I see my fears are reality.

I signed papers at the US EMBASSY when it was located on #6 Donald Street in Winnipeg, Manitoba and was issued a Proof of US CITIZENSHIP document, similar in size, and with photo ID, of a Driver's license. It was "effective" until 1986. After that? They stopped issuing them and, under Reagan's "Morning in America!" the embassy was closed; the closest being 14 hours away in Calgary, Alberta.

I was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota at Fairview Hospital in 1963. I have, what I think is a souvenir-type birth certificate. How to get my real one since both parents are deceased and the siblings "have better things to do?"

Hence, I keep asking, "How long before I can come HOME?"

My mother was *legally* a Canadian citizen, naturalized the November after my January birth. My father was born in Huron, South Dakota.

I spent the first year of my life in the custody of my Maternal Grandmother, here in Brandon, Manitoba while my mother was in a Sanitarium for Tuberculosis.

I did all my high school and lived at home; USA, until I returned to look after Grandma in 1982.

I've always considered myself a dual-citizen due to my birth history, as does the Canadian Government.

I am too poor to apply for a US Passport and have, now, lived more than half my life in Canada. Could I even cross the border by car? I have serious doubts and I cannot afford to test the theory by going to the border to see if, what USED TO BE CUSTOMS AND IMMIGRATION but is now Department of Homeland Security. Just the change in terminology of the labeling on the border crossing gives me pause to say, "When can I come home?" because I wonder if "home" still exists, or is it really a fascist state masquerading as a Democratic Republic as framed in the Constitution?

My question? What will ICE decide to label me?

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» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Proving you are a US CITIZEN?! Posted by: republicanwriter
» The law has changed. Posted by: colinmeister
» oh no, you might have to be a Canadian. Posted by: BlueBerry PickN

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It's all just a dry run
Posted by: bryangalt on Jun 10, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The attitude of denial from the top bootlicker's appointed by Bush shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. I mean, let's face it, if you are part of the Bush team, your criminal, immoral and reprehensible behavior is accepted and overlooked by the media

It's encouraged and pardoned by the jackass president, and it is denied as fact by the what have become the most-dimwitted citizens in American history.

If its okay to toss out American citizens because they are brown, it's a short trip to the next level of tossing out or simply throwing away those people that society feels deserve to go.

It's pretty much the way the Germany slipped into madness. They started off with a unifying patriotic event. Hitler muscled in the laws needed to increase spying in the Germans for any infraction that could make them seem unpatriotic, he fanned the flames of racism and provided a moral superiority argument that appeals to the ignorant, thus molding them into a mob that would happily kill developmentally disable people, Jews, Gypsy's, Gays, reporters, political opposition and the like.

But, when has history ever played a record twice? After all, American's are the purest, most generous and understanding group ever to grace Jesus' earth. We could never be something like the Germans.

That's true. We have already proven that we are worse...

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Typical
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jun 10, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, Sounds like any typical branch of the US Government. the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Nothing new here.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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» RE: Typical Posted by: HoboHomo

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A secret out-of-control government with no rules
Posted by: warble on Jun 10, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in the the 20’s and the 30’s, the US started deporting Anarchists or, if you prefer, union strikers when they demanded better wages. Under Harding, Coolidge, Hoover and our finest, Roosevelt, they just whisked you off the street and dumped you in another country.

Last year, I heard a story of a group of Federal Agents raiding a Chinese Restaurant inside of China Town in Philadelphia. According to the observer, they took everyone in custody that looked Chinese and told all the caucasions to leave. They would not even listen to Chinese Americans who tried to convince them that they were Americans.
They took away around 30 people.

One Chinese man returned to the scene of the crime and told his story. However, he said he did not know what happened to the others.

It seems that if anyone tried to find out, they would be confronted by a brick wall of silence. The government is not transparent.

It is a sad in America when even a citizen can not find out what happened. Tomorrow, it will be you. Whether they deport these people or even worse, kill them is up in the air.

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There's no question
Posted by: willymack on Jun 10, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That this "administration" and our country are FUBAR. Question is what's going to be done, and who's going to do it?

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» RE: There's no question Posted by: StirMan

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OKAY I'VE HAD ENOUGH.
Posted by: SOWILO on Jun 10, 2008 11:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have lived in Los Angeles for two years now. Illegal Immigrants are really horrible to work/deal/live with. Just five minutes ago, Illegals were working on my building, hosing the damn thing down. They hit the stupid pull-alarm with the hose, the alarm goes off, and literally with mouths hanging open, they keep working. I try to get them to stop, but no...

This is one of a million examples.

OK- has anyone ever thought about these Salmonella outbreaks in our veggies? Not only has this to do with corporate farming, but cultural issues in regards to hand washing which is a problem here. There have to be special signs in Spanish (which they cannot read anyway) to get them to wash their hands. Salmonella is spread through lack of sanitation. Illegal immigrants from rural farm communities without running water have not the habitual ritual of cleanliness. Ask yourself how long its taken you in YOUR life to erase a simple negative habit?

Think about it.

Where are the resources to get this group up to speed? Wait, we don't have them.

Living here has been a nightmare and most of this is related to these people.

Pro-Illegal advocates in the rest of the country need to know what's coming to their cities.

I used to be supportive of these people's plight, but now, after realizing the social decline caused by it, I cannot say that I support it any longer. The left has damaged every other issue in its agenda by supporting these people.

Enough is enough.

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» Black Ethnic Cleaning Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: Black Ethnic Cleaning Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: Black Ethnic Cleaning Posted by: JibreelRiley
» Liar! Posted by: Mexitli

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Do you ever think...
Posted by: SOWILO on Jun 10, 2008 11:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that maybe it IS illegal immigration that is pushing us more toward a police state? Do you think that MAYBE, just MAYBE this might not be good for our country?

Do you really think these corporations are going to send blackwater troops to college campuses to haul away liberal college professors or something?

Come on. Just wait until earthquake katrina when LA is going to be stampeded by a panicking group of illegal immigrants. How many are here? 3 million? Three million people with out ID's running around in the aftermath of a disaster.

This has nothing to do with "dissent." This has to do with COLLAPSE.

But its "all about race" right?

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» RE: Do you ever think... Posted by: StirMan
» RE: Do you ever think... Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» can i have your house? Posted by: Mexitli

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the ramifications go far beyond deportation...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Jun 10, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the cases discussed in the article show that it will be impossible to prove citizenship should you be seized as an "enemy combatant" under the military commissions act.. in which case you wont be shipped off to tijuana but rather guanatanamo or abu ghraib...

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nandtbearden
Posted by: nandtbearden on Jun 10, 2008 11:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am of mixed ethnicity - 3rd generation Irish & Dutch, 2nd generation Spanish, 1/32nd Eastern Band Cherokee (North Carolina), and 1/4 Mexican (or what I call "Texican"). (For those of you who have submitted the most ignorant of these posts, let me explain that saying "Spanish" is not the same as saying "Mexican." Spain is a European country, like Great Britain, France, and Germany. Native people from the southwestern and western U.S., Mexico, and Central and South America speak Spanish as their primary language because they were invaded and conquered by the Spanish before the establishment of the USA.)The reason I say "Texican" is because my 1/2 of my maternal ancestors have always lived within a 100-mile radius of El Paso, Texas. The border has moved over and around them through the generations, but they have never moved. That supposedly makes me part Mexican because they have spoken Spanish as their primary language for generations. I say I am "Texican" because when Texas became a state, they became citizens, Spanish-speaking and all.

Now to my point, this article isn't about whether it is right or wrong for people to come here without being able to "present their papers" (read with a stiff German accent a la Gestapo tactics).

This article was about the arrest, detention, and deportation of AMERICANS. Without due process. Without guaranteeing their safety. In total violation of their AMERICAN civil rights.

Do any of you xenophobes have anything to say about that? How can we sit by and allow this to happen?

Who will be next? It used to be African-Americans who were mistreated and denied their rights. Now it's brown-skinned people (like me).

How long until we admit that a significant number of Americans hold Hitler's dream of an uber-race near and dear to their hearts and will not be satisfied until USA stands for the United States of Aryans?

And for those of you with European heritage, did you know that there were no "Green Cards," "INS," and other such red tape to go through when the potato famine led to massive immigration from Ireland? Nor were these policies in place during WWI or WWII when Eastern European immigration was at its peak. Hmm...you flee here...persecuted, starving, illiterate and full of diseases previously unknown to this continent and then make rules so no one else can come in for a piece of the dream. Pretty selfish and arrogant. Too bad the Native Americans who met the Mayflower, et al didn't deport those undocumented illegals.

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» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: nandtbearden
» RE: Not about MASTER RACE ? Posted by: republicanwriter
» hi weelee Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: metoo
» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: nandtbearden
» Rock on, nandtbearden. Posted by: Coleman
» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: metoo
» RE: And What Did You Do Posted by: desidid
» RE: And What Did You Do Posted by: nandtbearden
» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: StirMan
» RE: nandtbearden Posted by: SOWILO
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You Know What.
Posted by: anonymous black writer on Jun 10, 2008 9:12 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It ain't no doubt in my mind that illegal immigration has some drawbacks-AS MUCH AS STRENGTHS. Some policies often do. But alot of America's problems and decline has to do with its own economic and social policies here and abroad. Half the reason immigrants are here now anyway is because we help cripple their economy and social infrastructure; and then created dumb economic and social policies that drained the countries of their wealth which did not do anything but encourage immigration.
Anyway,this country IS in decline and is becoming a police state but immigration as a factor in this sordid state of affairs in comparison to other reasons ranks pretty low on the list of reasons why in either case. We are becoming a police state largely because the elite knows it is ripping us off and know that their actions may at a later date encourage mass protest or violent resistance.The racism,sexism, religious bias and other forms of bigotry contribute too. Plus they are greedy and would love nothing better than to turn back the cloth. As it looks, they are well on their way of doing this if they already haven't. We have not always done right by ourselves either by not always reinforcing our rights, but even in the times when we have exercise these rights there has been notable successful efforts to quell resistance. Maybe not as bad as other countries but obvious nontheless. This sadly would be the case if immigrants were here or not. Many of these problems would not go away if all them were deported either.
I also feel people's concern about immigrants taking jobs, but alot of these business are greedy and don't want to pay folks so if it wasn't immigrants it would be prison or internment convicts who definitely would undercut wages. As a matter of fact, prison labor has taken the place of deported/striking immigrant labor in some cases. Anyway, alot of supporters of immigrant reform are xenophobic and racist in addition to being concerned about jobs. The fear of jobs is nothing but the rationale for this.Some of these folks haranguing immigrants are racist themselves and support/create organizations that are not that different in operation or ideology from the KKK or self- hating minorities who would scapegoat and persecute others if immigrants were not the focus.In the cases where they have not out and out promoted blatant racism, they have not done anything to stem the racists that are using these organizations as an umbrella for recruitment or support of their beliefs. So its the same difference.Some people may genuinely be more concerned about jobs than being xenophobic/racist/or self-hating, but alot of the opponents of illegal immigrations are racist. So people not racist should not underestimate this while they support this stuff.
Last of all, Latino vs Black incidents are going on. To say there are never incidences would be a lie.There are black vs. Latino incidences too where blacks rob immigrants of their money.There is no excuse for this, but we face genocide anyway. To lay this alot of this at the foot of current immigration is question. Some of those gangbangers shooting at blacks ain't helping matters but the causes of genocide are varied even with the hate crimes they commit.

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ICE Keeps No Records on Detainees Who Claim to be Citizens?!?!?
Posted by: thornwolf on Jun 11, 2008 4:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What kind of dysfunctional policy is that? Such official conduct amounts to a willful violation of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments to the US Constitution. The agents guilty of such violations technically lose their qualified immunity from personal prosecution and can be imprisoned.

It's about time charges are brought.

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damn, 3 years for 'impersonating an American': "I'm Afraid of Americans"
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 11, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm Afraid Of Americans
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh
Johnny's in America
LoJack at the wheel

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh
Nobody needs anyone
They don't even just pretend

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh
Johnny's in America

I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid for the World
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't

I'm afraid of Americans
Johnny's an American

Uh-uh-uh uh, uh, uh-uh uh-uh-uh

Johnny wants a plane
Johnny wants to suck on a Coke
Johnny wants a woman
Johnny wants to think of a joke

...
I'm afraid of Americans"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄

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Harmonizing North America's 'Universal ID' with RFID...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 11, 2008 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ontario working on RFID-embedded provincial ID card with Homeland Security approval

Katherine Albrecht speaks with Jeff Farias about RFID, CASPIAN & her thoroughly researched book, SpyChips.

Visualizing the privacy issues which put you at risk from money, power & corruption in a LockDown Nation.

"shock & awe-ful thing"s: "Taking Liberties" & forced drugging of Non-Americans on US flights

┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄

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WHY does Alternet allow lying headlines???
Posted by: Libsrule on Jun 11, 2008 6:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously.

I rarely meet anti IMMIGRANT people. Those are few and far between. WHAT the headline, had the author BEEN HONEST, should have said was, ANTI ILLEGAL FERVER.

BUT as usual the open borders and amnesty for all types, rely upon Karl Rove for how to frame a lie.

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Our Democratic Representatives and Senators
Posted by: Schroeder on Jun 11, 2008 9:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
need to begin to act like Democrats and stop measuring every action taken on how we will be able to elect another Democratic President. Until we stop allowing people like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to dictate the 'safe' path, the one that they feel will bring no negative press to the Democrats, we won't have a democrat in the Whitehouse. We will have another George Bush, in John McCain in the Whitehouse.

It's time for those in Washington who were elected to represent the people, not their own selfish interests or desire for re election to do the right thing! Enough!

If you are not going to lead, then GET OUT! LET SOMEONE LEAD WHO HAS THE SPINE TO MOVE FORWARD.

AND IF YOU CAN SCREW UP THE COURAGE TO LEAD, PLEASE HAVE THE DECENCY TO SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE WORLD, VIA IMPEACHMENT OF BUSH AND CHENEY, THAT WE AMERICANS DO NOT LIKE TO BE LIED TO BY OUR GOVERNMENT! FOR GOD'S SAKE, THERE ARE MORE THAN 4,000 DEAD AMERICANS, MANY THOUSAND WOUNDED AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF IRAQI'S MURDERED BY THIS RUTHLESS ADMINISTRATION. THIS DISGUSTING, CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR AND ASSAULT ON EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD ABOUT THIS COUNTRY HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

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Hey pro illegal alien supporter
Posted by: HBoyer on Jun 18, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can see where you are going.
OPEN BORDERS WITH CANADA AND MEXICO
THE FASCIST RUN "NORTH AMERICAN UNION"

NAFTA IS THE AMERICAN WORKERS "SHAFTA"
but free traders and the greedy rich
want a Mexico economy. Where Over 50% of
the workers live in poverty.

That is why open borders and the North American Union is being jammed down our throats.

Free traders like your are a cancer on our
country and will help to destroy the working
middle class and lead the majority of workers
into poverty and peasant status like we had
in the 1890's when the Robber Barons "Greedy rich" ran America.

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