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Hardliners Try to White-Wash Their Own Immigrant Pasts by Redefining 'Immigration'

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted June 2, 2008.


Redefining the word "immigrant" is an attempt to differentiate between those they hate and their own grandparents.

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I've encountered a new argument in my travels, both in the comments here on AlterNet and around the internet. It's perhaps best captured by the motto of the "Illegal Invasion News" blog: "IT'S NOT 'IMMIGRATION' AND THEY'RE NOT 'IMMIGRANTS.'" (This claim is often articulated in that ALL CAPS style so popular with small children and lunatics who are off their meds.)

The word "immigrant" has nothing at all to do with legal status. It means, simply, to move from one place to another for the purpose of settling down. Papers, no papers -- it's all irrelevant to the act of migrating.

The claim can be dispatched easily enough with a little elementary etymology. The word "migration" first appears in the English language in reference to humans in 1611, some 37 years before the modern nation state, with its discrete borders, came into existence. The Latin root of the verb "to immigrate," immigrare, predates that by more than a thousand years. Human migration is a phenomenon that dates back to before homo sapiens even existed -- pre-modern humans migrated wily-nilly. So, clearly, the word "immigrant" has nothing whatsoever to do with one's paperwork being in order; its roots predate the existence of contemporary legal systems.

An interesting question is why they bother making the argument at all? Surely, it's not relevant to the larger issue.

Or so it seems. But it is relevant, in that it is a response to a major problem for real immigration hardliners: the United States is, indisputably, a nation of immigrants and our heterogeneity, contra the howls of many a right-winger, is a big part of what makes America what it is. You can gorge on Bratwursts in Michigan, drink way too much vodka and mingle with decked-out Russian gliteratti in Brighton Beach, still read local Deutsche Zeitungen in small towns in Minnesota, eat Ethiopian food with your hands in L.A., sing weepy Irish ballads over your Guinness in dozens of Boston bars, wander the docks as the Vietnamese fishermen come in for a Texas evening and get the best roast pork in Little Havana. And thank god for all of that -- I wouldn't have it any other way.

But consider how awkward that simple reality is for a nice Irish boy like Bill O'Reilly, or someone like Tom Tancredo, whose grandparents -- all four of them -- immigrated to the U.S. from Italy in the first decades of the 20th century. There are a lot of immigration restrictionists of European descent -- people with names like O'Malley, Kowolski or Schmitt -- who are incensed about the current generation of immigrants to America, and to avoid charges of hypocrisy -- or simple cognitive dissonance -- they have an almost obsessive need to distinguish between their forebearers -- "good immigrants" every one -- and these scoundrels coming here today.

Usually, they're content to hang onto the fact that their great-grandparents immigrated legally, but I guess some need to go a step further and deny that those who bypass the system are immigrants at all.

Even the former distinction is weak. Consider the similarities between, say, the wave of European immigration that arrived in the 1880s and 1890s and those who have come over the past decade, and they dwarf the differences. Descendants of the huge waves of European immigration in the 19th and early 20th centuries make much of the fact that their great grandparents came here "legally," but they rest their case on a technicality: the only reason they were legal was that there was no law in effect restricting European immigration until the 1920s. In fact, European immigrants didn't even need to identify themselves to get in -- the derogatory word for Italians, "WOP," was an acronym stamped on entry documents that meant the person was arriving "With Out Papers."

It's true those earlier immigrants hadn't violated any law, but they never asked American citizens for permission to come and, while they contributed much to the growth of the American economy they, like their modern counterparts today, were not embraced with open arms by all of American society. In the mid-19th century, gangs would pepper arriving German immigrants with stones; walk into any Irish bar in New York City and you'll find the ubiquitous sign reading, "Irish Need Not Apply." Now those signs are a kitschy testament to Irish integration into American society, but back then they were anything but.

When one listens to the arguments put forth by people like Lou Dobbs today, they're virtually indistinguishable from what was said of those earlier European immigrants: they're invading in huge numbers; they won't assimilate like earlier immigrants have; they won't learn the language like earlier immigrants did; they vote in mindless blocs; they're unclean; their religions are backwards, and etc. Consider Benjamin Franklin's concerns expressed in a letter written in 1753:


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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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there will be maybe 50% of alternet readers who will indignantly decry immigration,
Posted by: Squarehead on Jun 2, 2008 3:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I read this, there are, as yet, no comments.

But I am fairly sure that when they come, there will be maybe 50% of alternet readers who will indignantly decry immigration, using the flag of 'Illegal Immigrants' to cloak their dislike of change in society. That dislike is the normal human condition; peoples' comfort zone does not allow for a rapid change in social homogeneity.

I have to argue that ALL of us in the wealthy first world NEED this immigration. Our birthrate is too low to support the aging population that we are.

I live in Ireland; 15 years ago it was trumpeted as the 'youngest population in Europe'. Half of the people in Ireland were below 26 years of age. Now, approx half are below 35 years. The same dynamic is in every developed country, people tend to smaller family size, or no children, as their wealth increases.

One of the consequences is that as the population ages, there are less productive young people to support, by taxation and other methods, the older members of society.

So all of you baby boomers who vent off about 'jobs being taken from American workers' should have a little re-think. It is not the immigrant, legal or otherwise who is damaging the American middle and lower classes; it is the class who own power in your society. Of course they also like a situation of a larger pool of labor; so think laterally; how can you subvert this power? Because the activity (with racist undertones)of opposing immigration is both deluded and ineffective.

There is another component of immigration, which is barely addressed thus far (though it is starting, as in the story on eco-refugees). What are we Europeans, or Americans, going to do when faced with environmental catastrophe in tropical regions?

Personally, I am not prepared to machine gun, or starve to death, the millions of immigrants implied; therefore I would instead welcome them in. I offer this 'extreme' statement to encourage thought on the issue.

As someone once said:

'Which Side Are You On?"

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Scotch- Irish, Italian, Luthuanian- 6th Generation
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 2, 2008 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I owe it to MY ancestors to extend my hand to Others, to Practice 'Give me Your Tired ,your Poor, Your Huddle masses yearning to breath free'.PERIOD!

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IMMIGRANT, I
Posted by: billgee on Jun 2, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
3RD GENERATION
I was born here. My Mother and Father were born here. Their Mothers and Fathers were born in Europe around the turn of the century and infants (innocents) when they arrived. The men worked, the women had babies. What kind of IMMIGRANT DOES THAT MAKE ME?


The numbers may have changed. Principles dont.
Theyre All People

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» RE: IMMIGRANT, I Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Last Chance... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: IMMIGRANT, I Posted by: Lauren
The big difference
Posted by: zeb on Jun 2, 2008 4:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LEGAL vs. ILLEGAL

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» Just what we need (!) Posted by: Last Chance
» I Don't Think I'm Asking Too Much Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: The big difference Posted by: Cyberposter
WAKE UP CALL
Posted by: Last Chance on Jun 2, 2008 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there is no way to tell the difference between an illegal alien and a citizen, then there is no way to define our citizenship in a sovereign nation of laws = a defacto North American Union waiting for legal notification.

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» RE: WAKE UP CALL Posted by: bonzi
Good Start In Educating Your Readers, Now Go The Distance
Posted by: desidid on Jun 2, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Explain in detail how amalgamation and assimilation were achieved by earlier immigrants? The following are some examples of how those early immigrants practiced racial discrimination, an act that would eventually garner them a place within majority culture.

A number of factors can be attributed to the decline in black social and economic status in late-19th century Wilmington, but one factor--limited union participation--greatly influenced the numbers of black workers entering industrial employment. In the late-19th and early-20th centuries, union membership was the primary means of securing industrial employment. Immigrants were participants in the unionization movement, but most black workers were barred or were forced to form their own unions. Many national unions adopted policies that discriminated against blacks seeking union membership and entry into union-sponsored apprentice programs.

This exclusion and segregation by the unions initiated a vicious cycle of under- employment for black workers. Without union representation, black workers lacked the leverage to force employers to accede to their labor demands. Black workers settled for whatever jobs were available to them, usually unskilled, low-wage, low-status jobs. Labor unions, composed of members of skilled trades, considered the masses of black unskilled laborers as competitors willing to undercut their wages and thus were not interested in extending them union membership. This cycle was so effective in retarding black occupational mobility that by 1910, most black workers were employed in two sectors: in the professional sector in occupations such as doctors and clergymen (catering primarily to the black population) and in the domestic and personal services sector in occupations such as laborers and servants. The continued arrival of similarly skilled or unskilled immigrant groups during the late-19th and early-20th centuries limited the numbers of blacks entering the skilled and semi-skilled occupations and this persisted until the cessation of European immigration in 1924. Thus these factors--limiting black access to unions which was the initial step to industrial employment as well as specific discriminatory laws--shaped the economic and social opportunities available to Delaware's black population until well into the 20th century.

Employment Comparisons: 1845, 1850, 1880, and 1910

Ignatiev makes the case that the social construction of the Irish Americans as “white” while the African Americans were construed to be a “black” underclass was a complex social and economic process. He cites the use of political institutions by the Irish. They managed to overcome Nativist and Know-Nothing movements in the mid 19th centuries. They opposed the abolition of slavery, using the argument that they would abide by the laws of their adopted country. (This was in spite of a general Irish cultural distaste for slavery, and probably to avoid economic competition from freed slaves, as well as to build political coalition with the white southerners.) The Irish immigrants organized labor, and used violence and exclusionary tactics to keep work for the Irish. I would add, that they fought America’s wars, not only manning the army in the war with Mexico, but serving in distinguished Irish units in the Civil War and World War I. After emancipation, African Americans were the victims of other social and political processes that denied them rights and status in America. On the other hand, the social construction of the position of black Americans after the Civil War was a disaster has not been fully overcome today.

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» RE: You're Welcome Posted by: desidid
» Thanks, desidid Posted by: asilsfable
skingk
Posted by: skingk on Jun 2, 2008 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this subjective opinion is tiresome.

To understand why immigration must be restricted, go to Youtube and watch Immigration Gumballs.

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The Capitalist Solution
Posted by: corgyn on Jun 2, 2008 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem, the "threat" seems to be in the unregulated nature of these travelers. So let's sell them documents, all nice and legal
Make ICE make MONEY

1. We need the labor, we need the consumers to keep the economy growing, nothing wrong with fresh blood

2. They need to work for income to live and buy.

3. Open the door s and just put price tags on admittance with a decent screening. They already paid the smugglers thousands of dollars. Just have them pay at the border crossing to USA.

I have no problem with difficult, painful, expensive process to full citizenship. But open up WORK VISAS, Modernize green cards, open immigration that just happens to pass a cash register.

This culture is the dominant force - they will be absorbed. Sure maybe things change, I love breakfast tacos rather than a sausage and beans English breakfast that should be my cultural heritage

Let's just all learn Spanish & English and get it over with

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» RE: The Capitalist Solution Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: The Capitalist Solution Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Capitalist Solution Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The Capitalist Solution Posted by: SOWILO
Deportation Prison
Posted by: ptown on Jun 2, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will be visiting a loved one in a Deportation Prison in three weeks. I will fly to another state on Saturday morning, rent a car, get a hotel room, visit for only ONE hour on Saturday, stay in the hotel, visit one hour on Sunday and fly back home Sunday night. Why? Because someone I love very much is an illegal alien and his entire family are illegal aliens and nobody in the family can go visit. And I am the only person with a few extra bucks and the I.D. to visit the I.C.E. facility. But the main reason I am going is to see my young friend for what could be the very last time is this: if the judge does not let him come back home and if he does end up over the border, his Northern California tattoo makes him an immediate target for gang violence on the streets of his "home country" where he has not been since he was five years old.

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» RE: Deportation Prison Posted by: john mont
» john mont Posted by: ptown
» RE: john mont Posted by: 27raptor660
» 27raptor660 Posted by: ptown
Dishonoring our ancestors
Posted by: stillwaggon on Jun 2, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My ancestors came here from German speaking areas of Europe in the 18th century. They fought in the American Revolution to free the colonies from the British overlords of that time. Ben Franklin was quite outspoken in his opposition to their presence in his (at that time) English colony, even though he made part of his fortune as a printer by printing German language materials for them. He seems to have mellowed in his old age; he contributed to the founding of Franklin College (now Franklin and Marshall) for German speakers, an institution that even admitted women in its early days. I get pretty disgusted with descendents of immigrants who use hate speech (and action) against people who come here for the same reasons as our ancestors. If you are not a Native American, please reconsider how you dishonor your ancestors by your hateful behavior.

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Oh, to start so logically...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jun 2, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The word "immigrant" has nothing at all to do with legal status. It means, simply, to move from one place to another for the purpose of settling down. Papers, no papers -- it's all irrelevant to the act of migrating.

...and then give in to your personal emotions?

Nah, it's not really "immigrants" that your personal pariahs are "a'feard of". Even if they type in all caps, like "kids and folks off their meds"*.

It's about legal status, and implication that laws don't apply to people you favor, just because you said so, and they're here now.

In case the rest of you hadn't noticed, laws change. Old laws restricting abortion have changed. Old laws regarding property rights have changed. Old laws regarding mineral rights have changed. Old laws regarding whether you can bulldoze a stream to make a dam have changed. So has immigration law.

It's not "immigration hard-liners" you're "afear'd of", pilgrim: it's reality, and the law.

*what a juvenile

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» RE: Oh, to start so logically... Posted by: Squarehead
» The fundamentals of the argument: Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Getting this straight... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» *"what's wrong with that?" Posted by: ABetterFuture
If it had all been left to the English..
Posted by: GrannyBgood on Jun 2, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immigrants have contributed much to what made America "Great" and powerful. Especially, powerful. First the South rose through slave labor (Unwilling Immigrants), while the North used the immigrant poor in their industrial mills, and of course, cannon fodder for their wars, where many immigrants documented and undocumented, fought for their new country.
We were ourselves "Imported" out of the ruins of WWII Germany for the American "Space Race" in 1950, my father being a top aeronautical and rocketry engineer, as was Werner von Braun, and most of the other scientists who contributed to American space supremacy, like those who worked on the Nuclear Bomb before them; mostly "outsourced" immigrants.
Evidently America needed foreigners' expertise to become the new superpower that threatens the world today.
(Perhaps we should have left it to the Natives, after all!)

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Everyone has a human right not to starve.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Jun 2, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Period. That's fundamental. We created the NAFTA monster and now we are reaping what we sowed. The rich desperately want cheap labor and they will always find a way to smuggle aliens across the border.

A few years ago there was a case in US 6th Circuit called Trollinger v. Tyson Foods where the union members sued Tyson for concerted efforts to routinely smuggle in people from Mexico in order to break the union. Tyson had them tied up in court for years and probably still does. Tyson was even admonished by a judge for its dilatory tactics and ridiculous legal arguments advanced in an effort to delay the case as long as possible and eventually break down the plaintiffs.

A poster above asked what Americans are going to do when global warming causes problems in the tropical nations. Good question, but let's take it a step further. What are we going to do when it affects our nation? There are serious long-term droughts affecting the Southeast and Southwest. Atlanta has a major water crisis. The water level in Florida's aquifer continues to decline. This is just the beginning.

So now we're building ourselves a wall and throwing up travel restrictions like passports for the Carribean and Canada.

The construction of the wall is just a feel-good attempt to quiet a population that has been whipped into a frenzy by Lou Dobbs, et al and the loss of good-paying jobs. Do you honestly think the meatpacking industry wants to start paying union wages to Americans?

The wall is really designed to to keep us in.

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Not immigrants but ILLEGAL ALIENS
Posted by: HBoyer on Jun 2, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More smoke and mirrors. Skirt the real issue.
The US government defines people that come to America illegally as ILLEGAL ALIENS not as
undocumented immigrants.

The words "undocumented alien" was created by the pro Illegal Alien supporters, like farmers, slaughter houses and religious organizations.
as a smoke screen to get sympathy from unsuspecting hard working Americans.

The real issue amnesty for 20 million Illegal
Aliens then OPEN BORDERS then implementation of the FASCIST government of "NORTH AMERICAN UNION"

This is the real reason for all you smoke and mirrors-Like Bush you don't tell the TRUTH.

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» RE: HBoyer... Posted by: Quannah
New Laws
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jun 2, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need new laws that address immigration. We are not going to be able to have a rational and reasonable discussion of immigration issues and drafting of appropriate legislation until after the campaigning for elections and until there is a different administration and Congress in place. We will also have to get the citizens of this country on board. The discussion and law making will have to consider all of the elements of immigration including legal/illegal immigrants, economic status of US, humanitarian issues, labor laws, population growth, natural resources, infrastructure, social services and education. Considering the downward spiral of the US economy and the impact of the economy on working blue collar and middle class citizens, there will have to be information provided that emphasizes the economic benefits of increasing immigrant populations into this country. When people can see that their own interests are served, they are more likely to engage in discussion and support legislation that allows people from other countries to compete for jobs and services.

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» RE: New Laws Posted by: Old Skeptic
Yes..there IS a difference
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 2, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My grandfather came from Germany in 1900. And yes, he was an immigrant--but comparing him to the illegal issue today is totally different.

He came in through legal channels.

He didn't jump over or climb through a fence in the middle of the night.

He didn't try to hide with others like him to avoid the authorities.

He immediately learned English and cut all ties to his former homeland.

He didn't sit down and demand "special treatment" because of his ethnicity.

He became a farmer. He didn't try to steal jobs from others who were native-born and here before him.

I farm his land today.

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» RE: Yes..there IS a difference Posted by: Squarehead
» Yer sooooooooo full of sh*t Posted by: sausage
the origin of "wop"
Posted by: vegan27 on Jun 2, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The word "wop" does *not* stand for "With Out Papers". It comes from the Italian word "guappo" (a swaggerer, pimp, or ruffian).

You should be immediately skeptical of any trivia which claims that a common word began as an acronym. Almost all claims like that are bogus.

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» and "forebearers" (sic) Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: and "forebearers" (sic) Posted by: desidid
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Change the law??? Posted by: countingdaisies
» Change the law??? Posted by: countingdaisies
» "Invaion is Racist???" Posted by: gellero1
the Immigrant issue oione which the british agents in america encourage to keep the british influnce
Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 2, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During 1988 election of dukasis and bush the stupid there was a discussion in BBc between a BAT(an angloamerican tobacco company) chairman and the BBC newsreader and anchor-both being british, that BAT (real vampire!) man said that bush would be good for business to which the BBc newscaster saidduring the bush stealing of election in florida there was many editoris iDuring 1988 election of dukasis and bush the stupid there was a discussion in BBc between a BAT(an angloamerican tobacco company) chairman and the BBC newsreader and anchor-both being british, that BAT (real vampire!) man said that bush would be good for business to which the BBc newscaster said that dukasis being Greek which so from near africa and therefore too darky .to which that BAT parasite agreed.
such is the thinking and influnce of the british who meddle in american election on the sides of only british symapthiser candidates and who label other non anglosaxon whites aswell as blacks undesirable to be president of america.British media including the guasrdian9whose role as instigator for iraq war was disgraceful) and BBc news tyo the effect that gore should withdraw objection within 10 days so that american president is elected and then america can do business of missile siting in europe meaning britian. such are the british who advocated astealing fo american elction! and such evils talk of democracy in zimbawe and other places.
In 1918 A very famous news mogul (Jewish) had been stopped from running american presidency because he might not have been inclined to rescue england in the 1st world war. so a british agent wilson was elected jsut like truman(a british agent-) was put in presidency after roosevelt(whom the british never liked).
british are the real evil and american do not know who has reall hit them despite being claased super power americans are really slave of the british.

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Without the law, we have ANARCHY...?
Posted by: Brittanicus on Jun 2, 2008 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These (ICE) sweeps are a provision enacted in the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, when the first AMNESTY became law. Since then an invasion has taken place, with estimates of between 15 to 38 million aliens illegally settling here. Ted Kennedy promised no more AMNESTIES, but American fell in to a false state of trusting our politicians who have tried several times to bring us another abomination immigration law.

We have seen very limited arrest and imprisonment from the aftermath of (ICE) raids. The SAVE ACT will commit larger funding for (ICE), the border patrol, police departments, drug squads, special agents and other anti-illegal immigration measures. Pariah employers in corporate farms and general businesses, have not seen the interior walls of prison, as they think they are above the law. Obviously we must relieve America of criminal aliens, gang members, degenerates but also anybody who flaunts the (IRCA) law. We must insist Democrats endorse the Federal SAVE ACT(H.R.4088), by phoning (2022243121) There leaders are keeping it dormant, waiting for the new presidents AMNESTY.

Except that on its enactment millions more will pour across our border. The millions here already will be dwarfed in comparison to the next onslaughts, coming from third world countries. NUMBERSUSA.

Copy & Paste and distribute freely.

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The current situation is different from earlier immigration
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jun 2, 2008 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In previous periods of high immigration levels, most immigrants were coming from countries which were separated from the US by an ocean, and there were no airplanes. Arrival was by ship, and the ships were slow and could carry only so many passengers at a time. This made immigration a slower process. The passengers were inspected and interviewed, and could be rejected and sent back.

Now, all an immigrant from Mexico or points south has to do step across the border. This has resulted in the majority of immigrants, both legal and (especially) illegal, coming from Mexico, and other Latin American countries. If you really believe that these people are "assimilating" and learning the language, you might want to do a reality check by reading this article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,359589,00.html

I know, it's from Fox News, but that alone doesn't make it "wrong". Do we really want a society that is split into competing linguistic/ethnic enclaves? I don't. If I were to go to a Spanish-speaking country you can bet your last peso that I'd be expected to polish up my high school Spanish and learn to fit in. Why should we demand any less?

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» Yes and no Posted by: war_on_tara
Yes, but... so what?
Posted by: war_on_tara on Jun 2, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but they rest their case on a technicality: the only reason they were legal was that there was no law in effect restricting European immigration until the 1920s.

And guess what? There was no controversy about immigrants having drivers' licenses in the 1920s either. Nobody had drivers' licenses until the 1920s! Go figure.

Passports were hardly used at all by anyone before World War I. Ah, a simpler time. Then technicalities ensued.

There are plenty of laws restricting immigration INTO Europe, NOW - a fact that seems far more pertinent to the issue at hand.

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» RE: Yes, but... so what? Posted by: desidid
NAFTA
Posted by: frantaylor on Jun 2, 2008 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Goods and money can flow freely across borders yet people cannot. It all depends on who can afford to pay for the laws. It's okay to force other people to build our civilization, but not okay for them to enjoy the fruits as we do.

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» RE: NAFTA Posted by: desidid
Stupid citizens who don't know their own country's history
Posted by: sausage on Jun 2, 2008 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jesus, I beginning to think...aw, Hell! it's past beginning...that the reason we Americans find themselves in the current situation, vis-a-vis immigration, world diplomacy and an immperialistic and Constitionally illegal war, is that the vast majority are ignorant of our history.

I more than fed up with the morons prattling on, "My great-grandfather came here from (name the Southern or Eastern Euopean country of choice) legally, blah-de-blah" Well, dummies, those Wops, Polacks, Hunkies, Hymies and so-on-so-forth were brought over here after the Civil War to hold down wages and bust unions. But like the 400 Central Americans busted in Postville, IA a couple of weeks ago, they joined the union and soon became the backbone of the American organized labor. The folks at AgriProcessors, Postville, IA didn't have the chance.

And I'm also tired of the German-American dunderheads who think it's some kind of badge of good citizenship to say, "My German ancestors stopped speaking German in the home and cut all ties with the old country."

Well, I've got a clue for you dummies: Your German ancestors didn't stop speaking German because they wanted to! They were forced by law! During World War I antiGerman hysteria was so high that many states, especially in the Midwest were German immigrants tended to gather, the speaking, reading, teaching and printing of the German language was outlawed. One of the most draconian measures was promulgated in Iowa.

Ignorance can be corrected. But it seems to me that most Americans would rather join in a nationwide circle-jerk and masturbate one another in their advertising/marketing-industrial complex induced preconceived notions and prejudices. That hardens ignornace into willful stupidity.

And as we all know the actions of a stupid person always cause damage or injury to himself and often others.

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The left and immigratipn
Posted by: SOWILO on Jun 2, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The left is severly undercutting our ability to move toward a democratic, secular democratic socialist society by allowing in an unsustainable amount of Third World immigrants enter our country. This is happening in Europe as well with Muslim immigration.

Think about it- we have a horde of uneducated white people that we have to get thinking about environmentalism, sustainability, and higher standards in education. Then we let in this?

How are we going to do this with this high level of immigration? A good number of these recent immigrants can't even read and write their own language. There are a lot of "retribution" lefties who think "America needs to pay" or "we need these people to sustain the boomer retirement" or we need to "make amends for past attrocities" or any number of arguments. In the end, the society will collapse (as the economy is now) by an unsustainable amount of people.

The left is really not with it on this issue. I have made the mistake of thinking emotionally on this issue in this forum in the past, and I really want to come back with something to make people think. We really need to think about if this is really good for our country, rather than creating some pie-in-the-sky rainbow utopia that's never going to happen.

Maybe we all need to read Paul Theroux's "Mosquito Coast" to get some perspective.

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Don't give me that
Posted by: rem3864 on Jun 2, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I strongly resent this article. I am an immigrant. I came from Europe to this country in the early 70s and I became a citizen in the mid 80s. I didn't climb over a wall or sneak through a tunnel. I didn't abuse the system, I didn't make 'suckers' of all those waiting patiently in line before me. I came the 'legal', hard way.

It is a fact that those who try to come here the legal way find it very hard and may have to wait for a very long time. When my wife (being at that time a US citizen) applied for an immigrant visa for her sister she was told that it would take at least two years before her application could even be considered.

We didn't demand that the State adopted our language or that it funded our own schools. Those of us who wanted our traditions, customs and language to survive through the next generation, did it on their own. I don't think we had any right to impose on the rest of the country, the country we freely selected as our own, the burden of supporting our unique whimsical choices.

I'm highly suspicious of the motives of the self-proclaimed 'friends of the immigrants' because they basically support illegal immigration. And those who instigate this, they either support a disgaceful situation that provides cheap, 'slave' labor or hope that through a massive amnesty, these milions of illegal immigrants will become their political base.

Twenty years ago we heard the same exact arguments to convince us to support a 'one time' amnesty. We hear the same story today. Why am I not surprised anymore?

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» RE: Don't give me that Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: Don't give me that Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Because P. T. Barnum Posted by: desidid
frustrations of the pro-illegal crowd
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 2, 2008 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that Holland and his supporters on this website are getting extremely frustrated that their proselytyzing for illegal immigration isn't getting very far. The support for strong immigration controls is broad-based among all shades of the political spectrum (including Progressives) and includes strong support from those who immigrated legally--including Hispanics. Most of the articles Alternet has published have had comments over-whelmingly opposed to illegal immigration.

The pro-illegal people seem to resort to put-downs and applying the "racist" label to everyone who doesn't adhere to their certitude.

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Some thoughts
Posted by: willymack on Jun 2, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We here in the USA tend to seize onto ideas and milk them to the max and beyond. Truth be known, a lot of those ideas and all their attendant actions are OBSOLETE, and even harmful. Take our love of oversized cars and SUVs, for instance. How about the Mc Mansions sprouting up like mushrooms? Immigration falls into this category, as does the belief that "growth" (read increase) in population is inevitable. Anyone who spends more than thirty seconds thinking about population increase knows that that increase isn't necessarily good, in fact, it's probably BAD, very bad. Before you reply with the old chestnut "but look at all the vast, wide-open spaces we have here; there's plenty of room for lots more people", consider the possibility that this, too, is obsolete thinking. There are several good reasons that there are uninhabited areas here, not the least of which is that they're UNINHABITABLE, otherwise they'd be just as filled up with strip malls and all-you-can-eat buffets as the rest of the country. Back to immigration. The wave of European immigrants began because those people were invited here, not by benevolent and altrustic people, but by greedy bastards looking for cheap or even free labor. The same is true today. These slavemasters are the cause of all the problems we're experiencing with immigration issues today. To solve this issue entails nothing less than reversing what greedy crooks have begun and seriously starting a dialogue about population control.

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Some reasons why the article is wrong
Posted by: LonewackoDotCom2 on Jun 2, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. I've previously directed Joshua Holland to the U.S. Code, our federal laws that make up the "law of the land". They're available online, and in the context of the USC, "immigrant" means the legal variety, and "illegal alien" means the illegal variety. Holland should discuss this with a judge or someone who can clarify these matters for him.

2. The term "wop" doesn't mean what Holland says it does. I believe in this case WP can be trusted: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wop

3. If we don't make the legal/illegal distinction, then we simply have no border at all. Which is probably the goal of many who fail to make that distinction.

4. The left's "solution" of allowing those supposedly affected by U.S. actions to move to the U.S. is no solution at all: it makes things worse for us and it makes things worse for the sending countries. By supporting that scheme, the left discredits their attempts to change U.S. policies. That's probably too difficult for Holland to understand.

5. Whose interests are served by Holland's failure to differentiate between legal and illegal? That is, whose bottom line gets a little boost from articles like this?

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What is the best way to resolve this issue?
Posted by: countingdaisies on Jun 2, 2008 11:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears that it will be a very long time until the legal/illegal immigrant issue is resolved. Each side has their studies and statistics, which never coincide. Either those in power will make the decision for us, OR all citizens of the United States can participate in the outcome if we are given the opportunity to vote! An issue as large as this, which will effect each and every one of us, should be decided by the people.

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if they thought they could they'd insist they're indigenous
Posted by: DesertStone on Jun 2, 2008 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as if these people didn’t come here on wooden boats in their rags with their fleas and enough disease to practically wipe out the entire native population. Running to escape the genocidal madness of Europe. Now they’ll sit back and blather about the poor quality of immigrants from the “third world” without a thought to the irony of it all.

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» RE: uh . . . . . Posted by: DesertStone
» RE: uh . . . . . Posted by: gathaiga
» RE: uh . . . . . Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: the year is 2008 Posted by: Quannah
A view from a son of an immigrant(in UK): The hypocrisy of the Right
Posted by: Woodpecker on Jun 2, 2008 12:15 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps a view from another perspective is necessary. In the UK, newspapers such as the Daily Express( Conservative) are busy running scare stories every day about the great unwashed hordes pouring in from Eastern Europe. Given that during the Cold War era they were happy to shed crocodile tears over the "captive nations" enslaved by the Kremlin, I am amused as to their hypocrisy now "Mr Gorbachev-tear down that wall!" thundered Ronald Reagan in 1988. Today in 2008, I am afraid the call will be " Mr Putin- put that wall up again!"

Terry

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Good article Joshua
Posted by: chaoslegs on Jun 2, 2008 12:32 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite all these nasty attacks on your article and yourself, I found this to be in line with my thinking.

Assimilation takes time, and it is faster these days.

The one theory that I have, that you didn't touch on is that during times of economic uncertainty, xenophobic/nativist behaviors will rise, especially in attempt to blame those others.

You could have also touched on how Catholicism enhanced some of the anti-immigrant behavior in the past. For those jumping on WOP issue, WASP is an acronym you probably can accept.

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Thanks!
Posted by: hms2004 on Jun 2, 2008 1:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was a wonderful article, Joshua thank you. I also find it funny that these same guys who decry illegal immigration from Mexico don't seem to mind when the illegals are young women from Ukraine, Poland or Russia.

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» RE: Thanks! Posted by: SOWILO
phony liberals
Posted by: DesertStone on Jun 2, 2008 1:29 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it comes to this issue of immigration you see clearly how so many so called liberal Americans are every bit the hysterical foaming at the mouth bigots that conservatives are when their turf and sense of normalcy are threatened.

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» RE: phony liberals Posted by: desidid
We're all from someplace else,
Posted by: bettyn on Jun 2, 2008 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
even the Native Americans, whom we know are actually Asians. My family, which is of Irish, German, English, Scottish, Dutch, and French descent, has been in the U.S. for eight generations (BIG DEAL!). No matter what some of us may think, the person who arrives here today deserves the same rights as I do IMHO.

Nobody in this country has a right to bitch about "immigrants". Our diversity is what makes our nation (well, at least until recently) great. Perhaps the best thing for the entire world, not just our country, is for all of us to become MUTTS (which, happily, appears to be happening at an accelerated pace). At least then, nobody can complain about anyone being any different from anyone else.

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WHO INCITES THIS IMMIGRATION ISSUE AND TO WHOM IS THE DABATE(arguments?) BENEFICIAL?
Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 2, 2008 2:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the various inputs as well itis clear that in the united states there has been hugh decry aginst immigrants of all sorts-first Irish, then g=the germans, then Russians poles and italins except one group -those wrteched ones from england.(in fact the immigrants from england were the most poor and wrteched of them all.
Laws wetre enacted exactly to stop and control those white immigrants of non english variety.
the so calle southern bpatists are desended of those traitors who fought for england agasint american indpependece and they have the temerity to call themselves patriots! and americans"!!
It is clear that immigration issue and this white versues coloured issue has been fanned by the same anglosaxon class who want unindered immigrati9on from england and who want america to be a source of power and prestige only for england. for them america does not belong to non english derived people. Though most of the americans are not anglosaxon derived but this charade is still going on to the benefit of england and english agents inside america.

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no easy solution here, and emoting makes it harder
Posted by: Drclaw on Jun 2, 2008 3:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are legitimate concerns on both sides. The unregulated flow of individuals from other countries strains our infrastructure and our social system. On the other hand, it is awfully hypocritical to to create conditions of poverty and despair in other countries through our trade or colonialist policies and then slam the door. Polls consistently show that most people want to be fair-they are happy to control immigration, but they also want a path to citizenship for people that are here (its not amnesty when you pay for it, OK?). I'd also add that unless we change our trade policy, building walls will do no good. Desperate people will do desperate things, and we have made them so.

Finally-to all those who say "those people are stealing your jobs"..its more appropriate to say that unethical companies are ripping the carpet out from under you. You think they don't know what they're doing? How many of you are using non-green card holders to take care of your lawn, your children or your house? How many of your stand-up neighbors are doing the same? You might think more carefully about what is going on here before you start to point fingers at "progressives", of which I am one.

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I Renew My Challenge!
Posted by: grumble-bum on Jun 2, 2008 3:48 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote this up for an earlier article about ICE menacing California students & by extension, their families.

At the time, exactly one "patriot" took me up on my challenge, but sadly, he failed miserably. I thought I'd pull it out of storage & give the hysterics another crack at it. My thinking is simple; if you can't honestly score a "point" in the challenge, then you should seriously give some heavy thought to the deeper motivations for your nativism...

GRUMBLE BUM'S IMMIGRATION-VERSUS-IMAGINATION CHALLENGE:

"...beats me as to where this flood of truly misshapen souls has come from to troll Alternet with their twisted concept of Patriotism & lack of perspective. I would guess that word has gotten out among the Right-catering blogs that Alternet now has an immigration-issues section. Or, perhaps, we're just seeing the results of that brief fling with the Paulites? Regardless, I for one want them gone.

The irony.

So, to all our new Anti-American "residents", I offer the following challenge..."


1.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "sucking up the resources", "taking all the medical", or "stealing" any privilege reserved for upstanding citizens such as yourselves. The rules for this section are simple. The "illegal" in question must actually exist, outside of that chain email you got (from the same relative who's always forwarding stuff about Obama being the head of the Taliban In Chicago). You must actually have met the "illegal" in question who harmed you in this manner, or else have two sources of verification of the alleged harm (perhaps the victim & a local news story, for instance).

2.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "depressing wages" or denying eager native citizens the jobs they desperately need. Again, this can't be second, third, or five-thousandth hand information. It'll be a tricky one too, since it's usually employers who depress wages, & the "good, LEGAL" Americans who have been "hurt" will have to have actually wanted the poverty-wage jobs. So even if you know the specifics of some guy that "took" your job at the chicken processing plant, but ever were heard to say "shit, I was gonna quit that shitty job, anyway", then you've ceded the point.

3.) List one, just one, example of an actual, LEGAL immigrant who you actually personally know who resents the "ease" with which ILLEGALS enter this country. Once again, you'll need to present proof that this person isn't a fiction created by some wannabe- Limbaugh blogger somewhere. & just like your mythical "one Black Friend", you have to know this person well enough to have heard them express this supposed resentment out loud, instead of just using your acquaintance as a justification for your own bigotry.

SPECIAL BONUS for the real aficionados:
4.) Cite one, just one, example of literal preparation by Hispanics to stage either a violent campaign, or one involving simple reproduction, to retake the Southwestern States, or any other section of the country. Agitating (protected) free speech that speaks to racial self-esteem/pride doesn't count (if it did, then all you xenophobes would be in deep shit, right?). I want locations of secret arms caches, troop movements, examples of covert ops, etc. Or, alternately, times & locations or methods of organized fornification.

Have fun playing, & good luck!

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» Oh, for F*CK'S SAKE! Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: Oh, for F*CK'S SAKE! Posted by: SOWILO
» Keep Those True Colors Flying. Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: Oh, for F*CK'S SAKE! Posted by: YogiBear
» To Be Specific... Posted by: grumble-bum
» 3), .. that's me. Posted by: stilldreaming
» Good. Thank You. I Think? Posted by: grumble-bum
» I promote choice of family size Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: Answer The Question Posted by: desidid
» Alright, But You Won't Like It. Posted by: grumble-bum
» You "Answered Question 2"? Hardly. Posted by: grumble-bum
» "Know-it-all"? Not Quite. Posted by: grumble-bum
» There. There You Go. Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: There. There You Go. Posted by: desidid
» RE: I Renew My Challenge! Posted by: L.A.Lynn
» No, No Name-Calling. Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: No, No Name-Calling. Posted by: SOWILO
» Hey. Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: No, No Name-Calling. Posted by: Cyberposter
» RE: I Renew My Challenge! Posted by: Cyberposter
» RE: I Renew My Challenge! Posted by: L.A.Lynn
» Here Are Your "Points": Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: Here Are Your "Points": Posted by: desidid
Funny...
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jun 2, 2008 3:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there seems to be a real cognitive dissonance on the left about immigration.

On one hand, anyone who dares suggest there should be anything more than unmanned revolving doors along the borders gets attacked.

Then the same people turn around and deplore all kinds of economic and environmental conditions associated with too many people trying to live the middle-class lifestyle. Falling water tables, too much pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, the evils of owning cars, power production problems, soulless suburbia fanning out and eating up prime farmland, etc. etc. etc.

When will people wake up and realize that America has enough people already, while the world has an endless supply that cannot be quenched? Absorbing more can only increase the problems while doing nothing to alleviate them in those other countries?

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Invading Aliens: Irish, Italians, Jews
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 5:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today's immigrants are not different from other immigrants who have arrived here in the past. Throughout the 1800s, there was a huge wave of immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe, Italians, Polish, Russsians, Jews, who arrived on our shores with no knowledge of English. These newcomers encountered the same racist nativist bullshit that is being heard today. It is estimated that four million Italians and three million Slavs arrived during that time. More than two million Jews also emigrated to the US. These people were poor and illiterate. They could not read or write in their own language, much less in English. Germans and English also arrived in the millions to escape political instability and food shortages in their countries. Newspapers of the day decried that arrival of these aliens and condemned the corrupt governments who sent these people to the shores of the United States.

Riots erupted in opposition to the presence of these immigrants. Just like in the previous century, when Germans were accused by Anglos of being the cause of all ills in society, immigrants were scapegoated.

The Irish fled Ireland starting in the 1840s to escape the deadly potato famine. Millions of Irish arrived to the American continent, almost a third of North America's immigrants. They were escaping political corruption and certain starvation in their country.

Most immigrants came for economic reasons and were part of extensive migratory systems that responded to changing demands in labor markets. The American economy had needed both unskilled and skilled workers through much of the nineteenth century. But after the 1880s, the demand was almost exclusively for unskilled workers to fill the growing number of factory jobs. More than five million immigrants came to the US during the 1880s alone. Southern and eastern Europeans, dislocated from their land and possessing few skills, were attracted to the burgeoning industries in the United States.

Like today’s Latino immigrants, Italian immigrants were particularly likely to take heavy construction jobs after arrival in the US. About half of all late 19th century Italian immigrants were manual laborers. Contracted out by a professional labor broker known as a “Padrone,” Italians dug tunnels, laid railroad tracks, constructed bridges and roads. They were mostly young, single, and had little money. The Irish immigrants had few technical skills, and their agricultural skills were limited to the spade-culture of potatoes and animal tending. They were half-starved, weak and destitute. A New York Times Editorial, June 2, 1874, urged the US government to turn a million Italian beggars into prosperous citizens.

Too poor to leave Ireland when the Potato famine began, families found passage on overcrowded, fever-ridden ships after unscrupulous businessmen discovered they could make money transporting desperate people to the US. On these "coffin ships," as they came to be known, many of them died during or just after the trip, but they had no choice but to leave for a better future or to starve to death in their own countries. These aliens had no skills, no tools, no education. Sometimes immigrant men had to be supported by their wives and daughters who worked as domestic servants in hotels and private homes, while they themselves worked sporadically sweeping streets, tending horses, cleaning stables, cutting fish, and performing any other menial work they could find.

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Invading Aliens#2
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 5:43 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Italians immigrants were escaping poverty from their country, unemployment, high mortality, no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, and exploitation. The majority of immigrants around the turn of the century were males who worked and saved money to send back to their families back home. Shipping companies made large profits by carrying immigrant aliens to the United States. They would bring cotton, wood, and crop cargoes to Europe and on the return trip bring immigrants to the US. There was hardly a city of any size in US that did not have a section designated as “Little Italy.” Italians would look to settle in these areas, for it was here that they felt free from the discrimination around them. This resulted in the formation of very definite ethnic communities: Irish, Polish and Jewish ethnic enclaves developed.

The majority of these European aliens entered the country illegally. For this reason, in 1891, Congress passed a law stating that those who had entered the country illegally could be expelled within one year. See Reports of the Immigration Commission (61 Cong., 3 Sess., Senate Doc. No. 758.) However, these aliens simply got off the boats, declared themselves to be American, and blended with the larger society.

By blaming immigrants for all the problems in their cities, politicians hoped to easily win election to office. In 1884 US congressmen decried that Italy and Hungary were shipping “as many cattle, large number of degraded, ignorant, brutal foreign serfs” to replace American citizens.

The racist media, which has always been the main conduct of anti-immigrant propaganda, proclaimed:

“These people are not Americans, but the very scum and offal of Europe…an invasion of venomous reptiles…long-haired, wild-eyes, bad-smelling, atheistic, reckless foreign wretches, who never did an honest hour’s work in their lives..crush such snakes…before they have time to bite.” See Public Opinion, I (1886), 82-86, iii (1887), 49 and V (1888), 432.

In 1882, the New York Tribune spoke against Jewish immigrants: “Numerous complaints have been made in regard to the Hebrew immigrants who lounge about Battery Park, obstructing the walks and sitting on the chains. Their filthy condition has caused many of the people who are accustomed to go to the park to seek a little recreation and fresh air to give up this practice. The immigrants also greatly annoy the persons who cross the park to take the boats to Coney Island, Staten Island and Brooklyn. The police have had many battles with these newcomers, who seem determined to have their own way.”

The Chinese immigrants also arrived, but they experienced more direct discrimination because of their non-European origins. There were numerous riots against Chinese miners in California in the mid 1800s. In 1885, the population of Eureka drove all the Chinese out of Humboldt county by threat of force. In 1885, there were anti-Chinese riots in Rock Springs, Wyoming. An Arizona newspaper editorialized against the Chinese immigrants who sent money back to their families: “The Chinese are the least desired immigrants who have ever sought the United States…the almond-eyed Mongolian with his pig-tail, his heathenism, his filthy habits, his thrift and careful accumulation of savings to be sent back to the flowery kingdom.”

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Invading Aliens#3
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 5:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Montanian newspaper in 1873 editorialized against the Chinese: “We don’t mind hearing of a Chinaman being killed now and then, but it has been coming too thick of late…Don’t kill them unless they deserve it, but when they do--why kill’em lots.” In 1869, Montana governor James M. Ashley advocated” …Montana is better adopted to the hardy races of men and women from Great Britain and Northern Europe…” The Chinatowns that sprang up in cities like San Francisco and New York was a defense mechanism against the hatred and prejudice of the society around them. According to the racist newspaper editorials of the time, “The manners and habits of the Chinese are very repugnant to Americans in California. Of different language, blood, religion, and character, inferior in most mental and bodily qualities, the Chinaman is looked upon by some as only a little superior to the Negro, and by others as somewhat inferior. See Frank Soule, John H. Gihon, and James Nisbet, The Annals of San Franciso (1966).

Anti-Chinese riots occurred in San Francisco in 1869, and in Los Angeles in Chinatown, when whites descended on the area and burned and looted businesses, beat the Chinese , and killed at least 19 Chinese during four hours. See “Chinese Massacre at Los Angeles in 1871,” Annual Publication of the Historical Society of Southern California (Los Angeles, 1894), C.P. Dorland. In 1877, a similar even took place in San Francisco when whites attacked the Chinese ghetto in San Francisco. In the California Constitution, Article XIX was added in 1879, which forbade employment of any Chinese in any public work and allowed any city to expel its Chinese residents. In the 1850s, the California’s Supreme Court stated that Chinese were Indians, and similarly as with Mexicans, they could not testify in court against a white man.

Between 1820 and 1890, fifteen million people immigrated to the US, 2/3s of them from Germany, Ireland and Great Britain. The majority of the British immigrants were paupers.

It was during this period that the Know-Nothing organizations were created in response to the arrival of these new immigrants who were considered different from "true Americans". Immigrants were often lynched by mobs. Riots were common throughout the nation to protest the arrival of these undesirables. Irish immigrants were considered by nativists to be lazy drunks. Poles, Italians and Jews were considered to be racially inferior and to be detrimental to America society.

The Know Nothing Party feared the arrival of Catholic Irish. They advocated banning immigrants from holding office, and a 21-year wait for citizenship. They used criminal statistics to show that Irish were the group with the greatest number of arrest in cities like New York. Eugenicists like Edward Jarvis published studies that indicated that immigrants had higher rates of mental disorders.

In the early 1850s the anti-Catholic Native American Party was established to attack the foreign religious elements of the German and Irish. Convents were burned, priests were driven from their pulpits.

Nativists blamed Catholics for unemployment by stating that Papal agents had unleashed millions of Italians on American soil to take away the jobs from native Americans. They stated that Catholics had started a run on banks to prepare the way for the seizure of the US government by Italy’s Pope. They fabricated a document “Instructions to Catholics”, which detailed a conspiracy by Catholics to control the American workplace. See Washington Gladden, “The Anti-Catholic Crusade”, Century Magazine, XLVII (1894), 790.

In 1855, German immigrants, who were routinely persecuted, were involved in deadly riots against Know Nothings in Cincinnati, Columbus and Louisville.

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Aliens#5
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 5:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In The Children of Columbus by Erik Amfitheatrof, he describes the worst of the padroni as "flesh peddlers" who recruited peasants from southern Italy, stuck dozens of people in disgusting tenements and took over 60% of their pay as their commission. Jacob Riis, an immigrant, described the horrors of these tenements in his book How The Other Half Lives. He reports "one room 12x12 with five families living in it, comprising twenty persons of both sexes and all ages, with only two beds, without partitions, screen, chair or table." In New Orleans in the 1800s, many Sicilians had settled in this area and were employed as fishermen or farmers. Italians were generally stereotyped as mafioso criminals. In 1891, the police chief had been investigating reports of what he considered to be mafia activity in the city. He was assassinated by unknown assailants and the backlash against the Italian community was hysterically racist. Suspicion fell on the Italians in the community and ten were arrested and put on trial for the crime. The mayor of the city had made an announcement to the press that "We must teach these people a lesson they will not forget for all time." All ten of the men were acquitted. However, after the verdict, a mob of 5,000 angry New Orleaneans stormed the jail and shot the men to death in their cells.

In "Restriction of Immigration"(Atlantic Monthly, June, 1896) Francis A. Walker warned that vast inpourings of southern European immigrants threatened to overwhelm and thereby degrade American culture and institutions. According to Walker "for nearly two generations, great numbers of persons utterly unable to earn their living, by reason of one or another form of physical or mental disability, and others who were, from widely different causes, unfit to be members of any decent community, were admitted to our ports without challenge or question. It is a matter of official record that in many cases these persons had been directly shipped to us by states or municipalities desiring to rid themselves of a burden and a nuisance...while yet the patriotic American of to-day may properly shrink in terror from the contemplation of the vast hordes of ignorant and brutalized peasantry thronging to our shores...The arrival in the United States, between 1830 and 1840, and thereafter increasingly, of large numbers of degraded peasantry created for the first time in this country distinct social classes, and produced an alteration of economic relations which could not fail powerfully to affect population. The appearance of vast numbers of men, foreign in birth and often in language, with a poorer standard of living, with habits repellent to our native people, of an industrial grade suited only to the lowest kind of manual labor, was exactly such a cause as by any student of population would be expected to affect profoundly the growth of the native population. Americans shrank alike from the social contact and the economic competition thus created. They became increasingly unwilling to bring forth sons and daughters who should be obliged to compete in the market for labor and in the walks of life with those whom they did not recognize as of their own grade and condition. It has been said by some that during this time habits of luxury were entering, to reduce both the disposition and the ability to increase among our own population. In some small degree, in some restricted localities, this undoubtedly was the case; but prior to 1860 there was no such general growth of luxury in the United States as is competent to account for the effect seen. Indeed, I believe this was almost wholly due to the cause which has been indicated,--a cause recognized by every student of statistics and economics."

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» RE: Once Again Posted by: desidid
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» RE: Once Again Posted by: desidid
America Caused Her Own Problems, Time To Stop the Blaming
Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 2, 2008 5:49 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal immigrants in the USA comprise at best no more then 2-3 % of her total populaiton. Of course, the percentage is higher in the border states of the South. However, the "evidence" of the demise of America due to the "illegal," is generally, either mostly conjecture or ancedotal. It seems obvious, that to go anywhere in the USA, the learning of English is essential. And, I see no evidence that American schools anywhere fail to teach English to their students. Nor is their evidence that "illegals," again either cause crime or even take jobs from Americans. If anything, they work the jobs Americans do not want. Much of the rhetoric on this issue seems to me more like the need to find a scapegoat. Some group or entity to pin the failure of American society and government on. We have seen this in many societies before, the Jews in Germany before WWII, the blacks in the old South, and the waves of immigrant populations coming to America in the past were all subjected to it. Well, I say, enough of this nonsense. The problems of America are due to her own failures. So-called free-trade sucked the jobs away, not illegal aliens working at car washes. Stupid and foolish wars such as the one in Iraq crushed the American economy and caused our deficit. Big Pharma and huge insurance companies wrecked our medical care system and caused millions to be uninsured, not some illegal alien Mexican kid with a broken arm in the emergency room. Tax policies that favor the wealthy and screw the poor cut our governments ability to help its people. That's where the problem is, not with people fleeing some rat-hole so they can have a piece of bread to eat.

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Aliens#6
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 5:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to a 1911 study of the US Immigration Commission, the new immigrants "...has been largely a movement of unskilled laboring men who have come from the less progressive countries of Europe...They have...congregated together in sections apart from native Americans and the older immigrants to such an extent that assimilation has been slow." Citing from the racist book The Passing of the Great Race, a book by Madison Grant, the Commission stated: "The new immigration contained a large and increasing number of the weak, the broken, and the mentally crippled of all races drawn from the lowest stratum of the Meditarranean basin and the Balkans, together with hordes of the wretched, submerged populations of the Polish ghettoes. Our jails, insane asylums, and almshouses are filled with human flotsam and the whole tone of American life, social, moral, and political, has been lowered and vulgarized by them."

European Immigration to the US:

1841-50: 1.6 million

1851-60: 2.5 million

1861-70: 2.1 million

1871-80: 2.3 million

1881-90: 4.7 million

1891-900: 3.6 million

1901-1910: 8.1 million

1911-20: 4.3 million

1921-30: 2.5 million


Dr. Larry Laughlin, appointed as consultant to the House Committee on Immigration and Naturalization in 1922, provided support to the anti-immigrant propaganda, by stating in testimony to congress that Italians, Slovaks, Russian and Polish Jews had three times the insanity rate of American natives.

Today, about 11 percent of U.S. residents are foreign-born, far short of the 14.7 percent who were foreign-born in 1910.

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» RE: Aliens#6 Posted by: SOWILO
There's a line and it runs out the door and around the world
Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 2, 2008 6:13 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's true those earlier immigrants hadn't violated any law, but they never asked American citizens for permission to come and, while they contributed much to the growth of the American economy they, like their modern counterparts today, were not embraced with open arms by all of American society.

Unlike today, when millions ARE embraced with open arms, just so long a they sign in at the door and agree to wait in the line. Those who would skip ahead of the line, ahead of the Africans and Middle Easterners and Russians and Asians and others who have no easy ingress, others who face poverty and persecution in their own countries, those are the ones that have to wait a little bit longer for access if we embrace the people who skipped ahead of them.

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Aliens invade and confiscate land
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After independence, the formerly Spanish territories were under Mexican control. Mexico forbid Anglo immigration. Whites consistently broke Mexican law when they illegally invaded California and the Southwest. In Texas, the Mexican government had given permission for some whites to emigrate. But thousands more Anglo immigrants, or criminals, arrived illegally.

Prior to 1823, there were less than three thousand white people in Texas. At that time, the Mexican government had given Stephen Austin permission to live there along with a few hundred other Whites, with the condition that they would become Mexican citizens, they would speak Spanish, and they would pledge allegiance to the Mexican government. But white colonists began to enter the territory illegally and brought their slaves with them. Within a decade, whites outnumbered the Hispanic inhabitants. Whites were interested in the rich agricultural lands of the Texan territory. These were the illegal aliens of their day, see Patricia Nelson Limerick, The Legacy of Conquest: The Unbroken Past of the American West. By 1830, whites outnumbered Mexicans 25,000 to 4,000. In 1835 Sam Houston, who had illegally crossed into Texas, argued against mixing with the Mexicans, ?no matter how long we may live among them.? See Houston speech to Soldiers, January 15, 1836, in the Papers of the Texas Revolution, 1835-1836, gen. Ed. John J. Jenkins, 4:30. The Whites eventually overwhelmed the original inhabitants of the territory and began to impose the English language on them. According to Mexican Lieutenant Jose Maria Sanchez, the foreign intruders ?have taken possession of practically all the eastern part of Texas, in most cases without the permission of the authorities. They immigrate constantly, finding no one to prevent them, and take possession of the sitio (location) that best suits them without either asking leave or going through any formality other than that of building their homes. During the Battle of the Alamo, the defenders were fighting for slavery, which Mexico had abolished in Texas in 1829. After the defeats at the Alamo and Goliad, on April 21, 1836, Sam Houston?s army of less than 800 men defeated Santa Anna's army as it camped out on the San Jacinto River, east of present-day Houston. The next day, Houston's army captured Santa Anna himself and forced him to sign a treaty granting Texas its independence, a treaty that was never ratified by the Mexican government because it was acquired under duress. Soon after, these Anglo aliens usurped Mexicans? land. They began to dishonor Mexican land claims. They passed new laws in English, a foreign language for those Mexicans whose border had moved. Often Mexican land was auctioned off for pennies an acre for failure to pay taxes. Mexicans were commonly lynched and whole communities were driven out of Texas towns.

Whites carried out raids in which they murdered Mexicans and forcibly took their land and stocks. Historian A.B.J. Hammet states that Mexican families were ?driven from their homes, their cattle and horse and their lands, by an army of reckless, war-crazy people.? In 1839 over a hundred Mexican families were forced to abandon their houses in the town of Nacogdoches by invading Whites. The mayor of San Antonio in 1840, Juan Seguin, states in his ?Personal Memoirs of John N. Seguin?, how Mexicans came to him repeatedly from protection of the invading whites. Eventually, he had to flee to Mexico because of personal threats against him. Anglo outlaws raided Mexican ranches, killing the inhabitants, burning homes and stores. Mexican livestock was declared public property and the invaders forcefully took Mexicans? property and their land. Mexicans were driven out of Austin in 1853 and again in 1855. They were expelled from Seguin in 1854, from Matagorda and Colorado Counties in 1856, and from Uvalde in 1857.

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» Tell the truth here Posted by: darkhorse
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Aliens invade and Confiscate Land#2
Posted by: Cyberposter on Jun 2, 2008 6:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rancher Faustino Morales recalls that how the Whites ?came in and drove the Mexicans out and took over their ranches.? See Frank H. Dugan, ?The 1850 Affairs of the Brownsfield Separatists?. Southwestern Historical Quarterly 61,no.2.

Years later, whites would also use the Texas Rangers to officially carry out their deeds. ?Texas Rangers, in cooperation with land speculators, came into small Mexican villages in the border country, massacred hundreds of unarmed, peaceful Mexicans villagers and seized their lands. See ?The Mexican Question in the Southwest, ? Political Affairs March 1939.

Most of the illegal aliens were land speculators and criminals. William Barret Travis had escaped to Mexican territory after he had killed a man. Jim Bowie was a slave trader who had gone into Texas hoping to make some business; Sam Houston and Davy Crockett had participated in the massacre of the Creeks at Horseshoe Bend.

Abb Emanuel Domenech, a religious missionary in Southern Texas, states in ?Missionary Adventures in Texas and Mexico? that ?The American of the Texan frontiers are, for the most part, the very scum of society-bankrupts, escaped criminals, old volunteers, who after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, came into a country protected by nothing that could be called a judicial authority, to seek adventure and illicit gains.?

The Anglo invasion of Mexican territory was not confined to Texas. They arrived in droves and illegally occupied great parts of the Southwest and California.

California Governor Pio Pico warned of how ?we find ourselves threatened by hordes of Yankee immigrants who have already begun to flock into our country and whose progress we cannot arrest.?

By the late 1800?s, Anglos had acquired four fifths of the Mexican land grants. See A History of Multicultural America, by Ronald Takaki. Six years after Texas independence, 1.3 million acres had been seized by 13 anglos. David Montejano, Anglos and Mexicans in the Making of Texas.

Believing in its racist ideology to wipe out other races by killing Indians and stretching to the Pacific Ocean, the United States had previously offered to purchase the Mexican territories of California, New Mexico, and Arizona for $15 milion. Mexico had indignantly refused the offer. Just as George Bush used the pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction to attack Irak, US President James Polk then instigated war against Mexico in 1846 in hopes of acquiring Mexican territory. Most historians agree that this war was unjustified. Opponents of the war included Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Clay, Mark Twain and Daniel Webster.

The Mexican War ended with the surrender of Mexico and with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. With this treaty, Mexicans, a mostly Indigenous people, lost one-half of its territory. But this illegal and unjust war cannot be justified, just as I cannot go into your home, put a gun to your head, force you to sell me your house for $5, and then pretend that this transaction was just or legal.

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Thin-skinned Josh Holland is no advocate of free speech
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 2, 2008 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holland removed my Alternet comment on this thread because I called him a "corporate shill."

SHAME on Josh! Who made him God of this blog?

How many times has he called Bush 43 worse things?

Talk about a hypocrite!

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» Get a life Posted by: Joshua Holland
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» * Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: * Posted by: desidid
Will the real Americans please stand up?
Posted by: Nightstallion on Jun 3, 2008 2:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now is the time for all good Amerinds to sound off. Listen little Men you are all foreigners here. Your ancestors came to a land already inhabited. No, you may not use the born here coin to counter the truth. It makes no difference except in a little arrogant mind whether one’s technology was up to defending against invasion. Invade they did and with a mad ravening need for which there is no fulfillment.

I realize you feel you must defend against this thinking, and I know why you must defend against it. It is not easy to admit to predation no matter who was the true predator in our pasts. I have seen arguments here that should shame all of us for their simple banality. My ancestors and yours are both from the common human stock that graces the earth planet wide. This does not excuse some of the thinking that we have used to victimize our fellows.

Your life and times are yours your ancestors are gone as are mine. You are a proud people and at times like these, it proves your undoing because you speak without regard for the consequence of your words. If you dehumanize others, so it shall be done to you. This is a law that does not even need to be written in a book; although your ancestors did in many versions of the thing, you call a Bible. These people foresaw what you will do, have done, and are doing. They were even mindful enough to put it in a book! Hear these words that fall upon you from your past, have ears to hear and eyes to see.

These people you wish not to claim have heard an old message, which has been carried forward by a Statue on Manhattan Island:
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
with silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus, 1883.
not realizing that these who have inherited that Statue no longer remember care about or are willing to honor the words Written upon it! These were mighty words, of power and discretion. They were written by a woman who loved the land she was born to.

Any of our ancestors who truly led who cared for the land and its peoples would have been happy to know her. Where are she and her ilk and kind now? What have these pale sickly leaders done to this land? I speak not of so-called race here little men. I speak of the ones who stayed to their death to try to build, not invade, teach, not enforce, give not being taken apart by the ravening wolves we have become.

Wake up little red, white, pink, black, brown, yellow man. This life and land is a diamond uncut, which you are seemingly bent on destroying willy-nilly. There is no reason for this except the ravening greed of those who were entrusted to lead us.

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Complex? Not so much.
Posted by: Martin32 on Jun 3, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Speaking as a resident of another largely wealthy, prosperous nation with a standard of living truly staggering by comparison with the rest of human history, I think that we are missing the point here. The reasons that people want to come to the USA, or the UK, or Italy or France are really all aspects of the same thing: life is better in our nations than it is in their's. Whether it is because of opportunities or simple money, or fleeing persecution, people want to trade up. As long as coming to our countries represents trading up, then people will keep trying (and succeeding, since people are very ingenious) to get in. There are two ways to solve this problem, one easy, one difficult.
The easy way is to tear down our own society so that we are no better off than anyone else. That way, no one will want in. I don't think that many people will find this a very compelling strategy.
The hard way is to try and improve conditions abroad so that people are happy to stay home. That simple plan involves taking on many complex problems, not the least of which is tackling the vested interests within our own societies who want an endless supply of cheap labour.

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» Best Comment Yet Posted by: bcgirl125
Its not surprising
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 3, 2008 3:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the last 25 years or so this country has re-written facts, distorted history, and re-defined the entire English language. Unless your name is either preceded or ends with a gerund, or your ancestors have legal rights to live on the reservation you are an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants. It's so unfortunate that many white people want to say that it's not me and I didn't do anything; not wanting to acknowledge that they are the beneficiaries of what was done in the past. Don't you people realize it is because of the policies that our government has put in place in the name of we the people that has aggravated the conditions of poverty around the world. NAFTA, was a boon-doggle and the Mexicans along with workers in the manufacturing, textile, etc. industry that suffered the most. Now most of those jobs are headed to China & India as corporations rush to find the cheapest labor to increase their profit margins. In the meantime U.S. workers are paying dearly for everything - healthcare, energy, trying to save for retirement- and you want to blame it on the immigrants. What you need to do is look in the mirror & pay attention to the people that you are voting for, the way corporations are feeding at the trough, the way we are no longer getting adequate news. There are issues that need to be addressed but immigration is way down on that list of priorities.

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