President Donald Trump’s nominee for FBI director, Kash Patel, a Trump loyalist who has promoted right-wing conspiracy theories, is “one of Donald Trump’s most disturbing picks” who seems poised to use the office to go after journalists and other Trump critics, says Chip Gibbons of the civil liberties organization Defending Rights & Dissent.
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AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman.
We turn now to two other confirmation hearings that took place Thursday for roles overseeing American intelligence and law enforcement. Director of national intelligence pick Tulsi Gabbard faced bipartisan skepticism, while Trump’s pick to head the FBI, Kash Patel, appeared to have the support he needs despite vocal opposition from the Democrats. Kash Patel testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee, downplaying his past promotion of right-wing conspiracy theories and said only 40% of Americans have faith in the FBI. While Republicans hailed him as a reformer, Democrats grilled Patel over his past comments calling for a so-called enemies list and praising the January 6th rioters. This is Democratic Senator Dick Durbin, ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
SEN. DICK DURBIN: Mr. Patel posted on social media, quote, “January 6th, never an insurrection. Cowards in uniform exposed,” end of quote. Let me repeat that: “Cowards in uniform exposed.” Who was in the Capitol Building on January 6th in uniform? The Capitol Police were. Do you think they were cowards? Many of them risked their lives, and some gave their lives, in defense of this building. How about the D.C. police, who were here, as well? They were in uniform. Cowards? Risking their lives, as well, some of them being battered and beaten by these mobsters that came into the Capitol. And Mr. Patel claims that the FBI agency aspires to lead — get this now — was planning January 6th for a year. He says the FBI was planning January 6th for a year. That’s a quote. Mr. Patel has gone so far as to co-produce and sell musical recordings of a song performed by January 6th rioters in jail.
AMY GOODMAN: Democrats also focused on Kash Patel’s record of going after journalists and calling for retribution against people he believes are trying to undermine President Trump. This is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island questioning Patel.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: Here’s what this nominee himself has said about using his office to prosecute journalists. “We will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. We’re going to come after you, whether it’s criminally or civilly.” Is that a correct quotation, Mr. Patel?
KASH PATEL: Senator, that’s a partial quotation.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: But it’s correct.
KASH PATEL: In part.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: Regarding his publication of his enemies list, Mr. Patel proclaimed, “The manhunt starts tomorrow,” and reposted a video depicting him taking a chainsaw to his political enemies. Is that you, Kash Patel, retruthed, reposting that at the top of that page?
KASH PATEL: Senator, I had nothing to do with the creation of that meme.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: “Is that you reposting it?” was my question.
KASH PATEL: And that’s me at the top.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: You said FBI agents were responsible for the violence on January 6th — and I quote you here — “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Is that what you said?
KASH PATEL: That’s completely incorrect, and I appreciate the opportunity to address that.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: I’ll give that you an opportunity in writing, but this is my time now.
KASH PATEL: You can have at it.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: An inspector attorney general investigation found that that was false. And you said we should impeach judges who rule against Donald Trump who are, in your words, “political terrorists.”
AMY GOODMAN: So, that was Senator Whitehouse questioning Kash Patel. This is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Have you referred to the media as “the most powerful enemy of the United States that they have ever seen”? Is that right?
KASH PATEL: Again, you’re reading a quote. I tape regularly and actively —
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: It’s to CPAC, 2-23-24. You said, “We’re going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig the elections. We’re going to come after you, whether it’s criminally or civilly.” Is that something you said?
KASH PATEL: That’s a partial statement of what I said.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Steve Bannon’s podcast. You also said you would put the entire fake news mafia press corps on your list. Is that correct? Is that what you said?
KASH PATEL: I don’t have that in front of me.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Benny Johnson podcast, 8-21-23.
AMY GOODMAN: For more on the Kash Patel and Tulsi Gabbard nomination hearings, we’re joined now by Chip Gibbons from Washington, D.C., journalist, policy director of Defending Rights & Dissent, where he’s advised multiple congressional offices on reforming the Espionage Act, currently working on a book on the history of the FBI for Verso Books.
Chip, thanks for joining us. Before we move to Tulsi Gabbard, if you can talk about Kash Patel talking about going after journalists and also making an enemies list?
CHIP GIBBONS: Well, Kash Patel is one of Donald Trump’s most disturbing picks, and that is saying something. Patel’s comments about going after journalists should be very alarming, first of all because no one should be in a law enforcement or intelligence position who wants to go after journalists.
I think we have to clarify that the FBI is both a law enforcement agency and an intelligence agency. It’s been a hybrid agency since Hoover, and Hoover used the intelligence aspects of the FBI to go after King, to go after civil rights protesters. And in spite of this myth of sort of the reformed FBI, ever since then, they’ve been doing exactly the same thing. While writing my book, I’ve come up with documents from right before 9/11 that showed them spying on World Bank protesters, with incredibly intrusive means. So the FBI is a political police force. And we are nominating someone who has shown themselves to be gleeful about using his political policing powers.
The journalism comments are extremely disturbing because the FBI has broad powers to go after journalists. Because the unauthorized disclosure of national defense information is governed by the Espionage Act, authority for enforcing leak investigations is in the intelligence division of the FBI, the division with the least restrictions and most surveillance. And I will note that the Heritage Foundation, in Project 2025, has called for hiring more FBI counterintelligence agents with the goals of finding journalists’ sources and imprisoning them. Unfortunately, there has been a bipartisan trend in this country to come after first journalists’ sources, like Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning, and then, under the Trump and Biden administrations, to go after journalist Julian Assange. When you look at what was in the plea deal that Julian Assange agreed to — that he is a journalist, and he worked with a source to publish classified information, and that is a conspiracy under the Espionage Act — Kash Patel has the perfect tool to go after Trump’s critics in the media.
So, Patel’s desire to go after journalists and their sources, the fact that both parties have created and cemented the tools to do so, and the fact that the FBI is a political policing bureaucracy makes Patel an extraordinarily dangerous figure. And we should be extremely concerned about what’s coming down the pike, while also acknowledging that if we did not have this bipartisan building up of the surveillance state, this bipartisan ratification of the Espionage Act, this bipartisan use of it against whistleblowers like Snowden, with journalists like Assange —
AMY GOODMAN: Chip —
CHIP GIBBONS: Yes, yes.