'Equal outcome or equal treatment?' Chuck Todd blows up Mike Pence’s DOJ 'politicization' allegations

18 June 2023

Outgoing NBC News moderator Chuck Todd sparred with former Vice President and 2024 Republican presidential candidate Mike Pence on Sunday's edition of Meet the Press regarding United States Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith's historic indictments of ex-President Donald Trump.

"Imagine deciding that you have evidence that a former president commits a crime and you don't charge. That could be just as damaging to our gold standard rule of law," Todd said to Pence, who immediately deflected.

"Well, I think the proper answer right now, because we have an indictment, and as I said, the allegations are serious, and the proper approach now is for equal treatment under the law," Pence replied. "The Department of Justice, I would like to see bring equal vigor to the investigation into allegations around Hunter Biden. We have investigations swirling around Hunter Biden about..."

Todd challenged that assertion.

"How do you know that they're not? How do you know that they're not doing that right now?" Todd asked.

"Well, I, I, I'm, I wanna see them come forward with action that would reflect their commitment to equal treatment under the law," Pence reiterated.

"There's a US attorney in Delaware that's been looking into this for quite some time," Todd pointed out.

Nonetheless, Pence persisted.

"And frankly, you know, the fact that President Biden was found to have had classified documents dating all the way back, not just to his years as vice president, but to his years in the United States Senate, I, I would like to see the Department of Justice moving forward vigorously with that investigation. That's equal treatment under the law," Pence insisted.

"They have a special counsel. He appointed a special counsel," Todd further noted, wondering, "So what — so you approve of what Garland did by having a special counsel look into President Biden?"

Pence demurred.

"Well, we'll, we'll see what happens, Chuck. I mean the, the American people have seen..." he started to say. But Todd again pushed back.

"Gimme your definition of equal treatment," Todd requested.

"The American people have seen so far that the former president has been subject to indictment. There is a perception, Chuck..." Pence continued.

"But there's a difference between equal treatment and equal outcomes. Are you looking for equal outcome or equal treatment? Do you get my point?" Todd asked.

"I get your point. And I, I think I'm being very clear on this. I think the American people, uh, would like to see evidence that we don't have a two-tiered system of justice," Pence proclaimed. "Seven years, uh, it, it appears as though Democrats get one level of treatment and, and Republicans, especially those of us in the Trump-Pence administration get another. The American people wanna see action by the Department of Justice that proves to them, or starts to prove to them, that that's not the case. Cause I gotta tell ya..."

Todd was not having it.

"You keep bringing up seven years. But Mr. Vice President, you keep bringing up seven years. Did the Sessions-Barr Justice Department politicize things in favor of the Democrats? Is that your allegation — that in four of the seven years you're describing that the Justice Department that was run by Republican, former Republican Senator Jeff Sessions, two-time Republican Attorney General Bill Barr, was politicizing the Justice Department in favor of Democrats?" Todd pressed Pence.

"What I'm saying to you is that we now know that the Russia collusion investigation should have never been begun. Two-and-a-half years, put the country through this," Pence responded.

"The Inspector General never said that, for what it's worth," Todd interjected.

Regardless of that, Pence stuck to his talking points.

"In the days following that, under the Biden administration now, we've literally seen the Justice Department targeting parents going to school board meetings. We've seen the Justice Department targeting pro-life activists, and, and I, I have to tell you, Chuck, I'm still waiting for the rash of prosecutions of people involved in the BLM riots from the summer of 2020. I mean, where, where is the equal treatment under the law as evidence of the fact that, that people are being brought into court, being held before having caused billions of dollars in damage in hundreds of riots throughout the summer of 2020?" Pence retored.

"Look, clearly the American people or, or not, or I will tell you, among Republicans, um, vast majority of Republicans have lost confidence in the Department of Justice," Pence added. "And if I'm elected president of the United States, I've said on day one, we're gonna, we're gonna clean house at the highest levels of the Department of Justice."

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