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Can Any Candidate Clean Up Bush's Massive Post 9/11 Mess?

By Andrew J. Bacevich, Tomdispatch.com. Posted September 11, 2008.


The squandering of vast resources after 9/11 and our slide toward debt and dependency pose a greater threat to the U.S. than Osama bin Laden ever did.
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Can anyone be surprised that, once again, the attacks of 9/11/01 were reflexively ground zero for embattled Republicans? George W. Bush led the way at the Republican National Convention, saying of John McCain, "We need a president who understands the lessons of September 11, 2001." In his convention keynote address, Rudy Giuliani followed suit, zapping Obama and his supporters this way: "The Democrats rarely mentioned the attacks of September 11. They are in a state of denial about the threat that faces us now and in the future." Post-convention, it's evidently time to assure the nation that Sarah Palin is just the pit bull to handle the next 9/11. Now comes the news that this Thursday, the endless presidential election campaign will finally make it -- quite literally -- to Ground Zero. Barack Obama and John McCain will "put aside politics" and appear together for the yearly ceremonies. By now, however, it's far too late to "put aside" 9/11, no less remove it from American politics. Our world has been profoundly reshaped, after all, by the decisions Bush and his top officials made in the wake of those attacks.

Still, taking up the President's implied question, what "lessons" exactly should be drawn, seven years later, other than that you stand a reasonable chance of winning elections by invoking 9/11 ad nauseum? As Andrew Bacevich, author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism, indicates below, there are indeed lessons to be drawn. They are, in fact, devastating to the Bush administration, and unless they are grasped, further disaster is undoubtedly in the offing. (To watch a video of Bacevich discussing those post-9/11 lessons, click here.) -- Introduction by TomDispatch editor, Tom Engelhardt

9/11 Plus Seven

By Andrew J. Bacevich

The events of the past seven years have yielded a definitive judgment on the strategy that the Bush administration conceived in the wake of 9/11 to wage its so-called Global War on Terror. That strategy has failed, massively and irrevocably. To acknowledge that failure is to confront an urgent national priority: to scrap the Bush approach in favor of a new national security strategy that is realistic and sustainable -- a task that, alas, neither of the presidential candidates seems able to recognize or willing to take up.

On September 30, 2001, President Bush received from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld a memorandum outlining U.S. objectives in the War on Terror. Drafted by Rumsfeld's chief strategist Douglas Feith, the memo declared expansively: "If the war does not significantly change the world's political map, the U.S. will not achieve its aim." That aim, as Feith explained in a subsequent missive to his boss, was to "transform the Middle East and the broader world of Islam generally."

Rumsfeld and Feith were co-religionists: Along with other senior Bush administration officials, they worshipped in the Church of the Indispensable Nation, a small but intensely devout Washington-based sect formed in the immediate wake of the Cold War. Members of this church shared an exalted appreciation for the efficacy of American power, especially hard power. The strategy of transformation emerged as a direct expression of their faith.


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See more stories tagged with: war, bush, iraq, 9/11, afghanistan, debt, american empire, imperialism, andrew bacevich

Andrew J. Bacevich is professor of history and international relations at Boston University. His bestselling new book is The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism. You can read excerpts from it by clicking here, and here, or watch a video of him discussing the lessons of 9/11, seven years later, by clicking here.

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Some thoughts about Bush's 9/11 mess
Posted by: VetAgainst McCain on Sep 11, 2008 12:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 2004, former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill said that from the moment George W. became president, "It was all about Iraq and changing the Baghdad regime.” Bin Laden and his boys weren't even on the White House radar screen.

In the Clinton administration, Osama bin Laden had been a high priority target, important enough to launch cruise missiles against Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. During that time, significant clues emerged from the militant Islamic underground, ranging from foiled plots to FBI field interviews that suggested Al Qaeda-connected operatives were intending to use planes as missiles and U.S. flight schools for pilot training grounds.

The ominous signs included a terrorist scheme in 1996 to crash a light aircraft into CIA headquarters at Langley, VA, after blowing up 11 American jetliners over the Pacific Ocean,

The solo suicide mission involved a Pakistani pilot trained at flight schools in North Carolina, Texas and New York.

In 1998 and 1999, intelligence analysts warned federal officials that terrorists might crash hijacked aircraft into prominent U.S. landmarks, including the Pentagon and World Trade Center.

Previously, in 1997, the FAA issued a security alert that included the following text: "The WTC investigation and discovery in 1995 of Ramzi Yousef’s plot to bomb U.S. air carriers in Asia have shown that foreign terrorists conducting future attacks in the U.S. may choose civilian aviation as a target despite the many more easily accessible targets that are equally symbolic of America."

The Bush administration claimed it had no pre-9/11 information indicating terrorists intended to employ hijacked airplanes as bombs. However, as reported by the press, Bush personally received on August 6, 2001, a briefing document advising him that Al Qaeda was capable of a major strike against the U.S., and that the plot could include “the hijacking of an American airplane.”

Six weeks before 9/11, U.S. air carriers were warned by the FAA about possible skyjackings. The alarm was disclosed by the 9/11 Commission in preliminary report, which stated: "Beginning on July 27, 2001, the FAA issued several security directives to U.S. air carriers prior to September 11."

In addition, the FAA issued a number of general warnings about potential threats to civil aviation. While none of the warnings required the implementation of additional aviation security measures, they did urge air carriers to be alert.

On August 16, 2001, 35 days before the World Tower attacks, Zachariah Moussaoui, the alleged 20th hijacker, was under arrest. He later claimed he was supposed to crash a plane into the White House. If true, that meant UAL 93, the 757 that went down in Pennsylvania, was probably targeted against the Capitol Building, which had been filled with representatives and senators that awful September morning.

Obviously Al Qaeda planners had never heard of the USAF tactical term, “Target of Opportunity.” Otherwise, the hijackers of American Airlines Flight 77, after over-flying the Pentagon because of excess airspeed and altitude, could have easily crashed into the Capitol dome and destroyed the cherished, 200-year-old building with flames from burning jet fuel.

As it turned out, because Al Qaeda’s flawed targeting criteria America was lucky on 9/11 -― in Washington, D.C., that is.

As for cleaning up Bush's mess, that won't happen if Manchurian Candidate McCain and his Hockey Mom running mate win in November.

Vet against McCain
To find out why, click on the links below
VietnamVeteransAgainstJohnMcCain.com
VoteVets.org

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» Israel's gifts to America Posted by: weathered
Osama's Victory, 7 Years On
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Sep 11, 2008 1:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Osama bin Laden succeeded brilliantly on 9/11/01. Not so much by killing over 3000 people and destroying billions of dollars' worth of infrastructure, but by inducing us to send our troops into places where his allies and fellow fanatics could slay and maim them, by causing us to waste over $3 trillion and cripple our economy, by getting us to slaughter and torture innocent Muslims and generating huge numbers of new terrorists, and by undermining the very legacy of freedom we claim to be defending. Like the AIDS virus which uses the body's own mechanisms to destroy itself, Osama's terrorist meme found an ideal target in a Machiavellian, corrupt, sadistic and feeble-minded administration and congressional majority.

Now even Obama has a moderate infection with this mental virus, and Biden, McCain and Palin are hopelessly intellectually crippled. We have become the evil we so deplore, just as the courageous, prescient Rep. Barbara Lee warned us we would.

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» Conspiracy theorists? Posted by: purplewarrior
» RE: Conspiracy theorists? Posted by: EncinoM
» Not a surprise Posted by: LionHeart
9/11 Coverup Denial = More Corporate Crime Rule
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 11, 2008 1:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like most MSM blather, this article by an apparent amnesiac historian does zero to address the fact that 9/11 coverup and its sham 9/11 “war on terror” remain bloody circus frauds palmed off by Washington and the media. A conspiracy fantasy farce so complete that even the cooked Kean and Hamilton show behind the so-called “9/11 Commission Report” would not buy the official crock and hokum.

Of course all of this has been sold by the usual Fascist elites: a criminal parasite ruling class that hasn’t lost its grip on power from before the Gilded Age .

Interesting that no one - and I mean no one - at a completely corrupt Main Stream Media establishment will bring up what any 10 year old with a web hookup understands to be obvious:

9/11 and its criminal coverup into the blood money genocide of “war on terror” is naked proof the U.S. is a monopoly corporate Fascist State.

What stinks to the bone worldwide is that—for the most part—people in America are so gullible or so corrupt, they are apparently proud of this horror.

Something to consider on the anniversary of that fateful day.

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A Century of Damage
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 11, 2008 3:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Make no mistake about it. Fifty years from today, the president of the United States, whomever he or she will be - who in all liklihood hasn't even been born yet - will still, on a daily basis, be dealing with the damage that this corrupt, hideous, murderous, half-witted little thug did to his once-great nation all those decades before.

The negative impact of George W. Bush's twisted legacy will be long and far-reaching. Put yourself in the position of a child of even average intelligenge a century from now - September 11, 2108. He or she will be looking back agahst! With all that was going on in their country, what were these stupid fucking Americans debating?

Lipstick on a pig.

Honestly, aren't you embarrassed to be a citizen of this country? Is it any wonder that wee are the laughingstock of the entire Milky Way?

I need a drink....On second thouught, screw the drink. I need some heroin.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Barack Needs Our Help

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» RE: A Century of Damage Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» helenhanbasquet: Posted by: Tom Degan
» Yea Tom but.... Posted by: donl51
That won't be necessary once the countries America is borrowing from hit the FORECLOSURE switch.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 11, 2008 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then we'll have no choice since we'll be under their control. You know, I think that's already going on, yes?

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Cowardice, Complicity or Both?
Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 11, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because the Democrats refused to impeach Bush and Cheney, they have the power to once again set up America for another terrorist attack before or after the elections. Whichever candidate wins, Bush can pre-empt them with his emergency powers, and either winning candidate would go along, no problem -- because the Democrats refused to impeach.

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the rest of the world
Posted by: grmartin on Sep 11, 2008 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rest of the world seems to get it, I think they may be somewhat less brainwashed. Making one's self really unpopular has its consequences, sorry to say. Credibility once lost isn't quickly regained either. How bad is it going to get? Maybe we should get Canada to invade and we can just start again as someone else.

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Just whose watch did 9/11 occur on?
Posted by: aussidawg on Sep 11, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The republicans keep assuring us that they and only they are the ones who are tough enough and smart enough to prevent another terror attack on our soil. But...didn't 9/11 happen on the republican's watch, and with lots of warnings to boot? Sorry, but I think they are full of shit. I'll take mmy chances with someone else, someone who believes that there are other ways to circumvent a terrorist attack without trashing the Constitution and Bill of Rights and international treaties. After all, these documents were written by our founding fathers while British troops occupied our soil. I just don't think terrorists who live in caves on the other side of the pond pose as much danger as did occupying British forces who were present while our founders establihed our rights in writing! Face it, repugs. are nothing but braindead pussies when it boils down to standing up to external threats. If they think that some terrorist group living in Afganistan is a threat great enough to give up the work of our founding fathers who were under direct and perpetual threat, fuck em and send em on their way!!!

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McKinney, Nader and Kucinich can fix this mess
Posted by: nfamous on Sep 11, 2008 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When some people talk about Bush's disastrous presidency they make the a priori assumption that Bin Laden perpetrated the attacks but that the US just made a mistake by going into Iraq instead of Afghanistan.

We should have gone into either country because Bin Laden didn't do a damn thing to us. He admitted that after 9/11 right before he died from health problems. Every tape since then has been a verifiable fraud. They even had a tape where Bin Laden was writing with the wrong hand. Come on people!!!!!!!!!!

The elite that run the world made the call for 9/11 to happen. Their goal is world domination like Stewie on Family Guy, except they can actually do it. They want depopulation and are killing us right now as part of that plan.

These people have multiple goals when it comes to their crimes. 9/11 has a heist of gold and destruction of evidence in the Towers. It was also insurance money for Larry Silverstein. It was also a reason to remove Saddam Hussein so Iran could become a greater threat in our minds. It was also a way to steal the oil from Iraq and to set up a permanent base in the Middle East to help Israel.

It's not just about the oil folks. The main goal for the elite is depopulation. They know the Earth is overpopulated but instead of decreasing the birth rate they want to sterilize women, breakup the American family, poison people with contamined food, water and air (chemtrails) and give HIV, another form of cancer, to as many people as possible. HIV has to bind to the genetic receptors to become AIDS. How come blacks are the only ones that have both receptors while most whites have neither and a few have one?

The rabbit hole is deep folks. Forget about Democrats and Republicans. They don't matter. They are frontment for the New World Order. We are already slaves to corporations. They rule the world. We are destroying the planet while a bunch of Luciferian, European pederast nutjobs kill us from afar.

Just because it's hard to believe does not mean it's not true. Many people thought something like 9/11 could never happen but it did. Our lives are going to have become very unpleasant to fix this and people are going die in huge numbers, (we're dying anyway from the poisons and wars), so if you are a wimp and can't deal with the unpleasantness of this then just go bury your useless head in the sand like an ostrich and stay out of our way while you pray that that the truth is not true. Alex Jones is throwing everything he can at the New World Order but he cannot do it alone.

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» Fact and science? Posted by: purplewarrior
» RE: Fact and science? Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Fact and science. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Fact and science. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Fact and science. Posted by: Lauren
» Follow the money! Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: Follow the facts! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Follow the facts! Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Follow the money! Posted by: donl51
Rats in the Basement
Posted by: GrannyBgood on Sep 11, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In fact, the Bush administration's strategy of transformation has ended. It has failed miserably."

Yes, but do THEY know that?
I feel like I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on Iran.
Certainly, I'm still waiting for ANSWERS to all the "Anomalies" of 9/11. A re-INVESTIGATION (or a REAL Investigation!) is as badly needed as ever, if not even more so, as an emetic before this new administration (or, God forbid, the McSAME one!) takes over.
I saw the Dastardly Duo standing outside the Whitehouse this morning for their "Moment of Silence"; Bush looking hung over next to his ever-smiley Valium-drugged wife and Cheney looking like the Incarnation of Evil, next to his little pug.
There will be no thorough housecleaning without dealing with the RATS in the Basement first!

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Not Just the Bush Administration
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Sep 11, 2008 6:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush Administration did not do all of this alone. The Bush Administration could not have done all of this damage without the enthusiastic and active support of the 2001-2006 Republican Congress and the Republican media machine. If Republicans are given another four years in office they will inflict another four years of severe damage to the country and I'm not at all sure how much more damage this country can endure.

Without doubt, there have been some Democrats and at least one independent who showed enthusiastic and active support for the Bush agenda, but truly, these are just individuals. As much as some want to indite the entire Democratic Party for the actions of a few, it really has been just isolated individuals. This is not so with the truly monolithic Republican Party. We must throw these bums out, every last one of them.

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a reminder... "on the justice of roosting chickens, some people push back"
Posted by: ellie on Sep 11, 2008 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ward Churchill...
"As for those in the World Trade Center... Well, really, let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire - the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved - and they did so both willingly and knowingly. Recourse to "ignorance" - a derivative, after all, of the word "ignore" - counts as less than an excuse among this relatively well-educated elite. To the extent that any of them were unaware of the costs and consequences to others of what they were involved in - and in many cases excelling at - it was because of their absolute refusal to see. More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.[1]"

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» God forgive you for this Posted by: foreverhope
» for Lauren regarding history Posted by: foreverhope
The lesson
Posted by: Cybershaman on Sep 11, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There really is only one lesson that can be learned from 9-11. What goes around comes around!
Conservative policies have resulted in a world on fire. Economic stratification will always produce violence, misery, and dispair.
I was disgusted by the 2000 election and the way it was 'won'. For eight months I watched monkey boy dance around proclaiming that he had an overwhelming mandate to ignore or undo everything accomplished by the Clinton Administration. He spit in our allies face, he canceled treaties or refused to sign them, and he never avoided a chance to insult people. I know, I felt insulted by them every day. For eight months I thought, "If someone doesn't shut this idiot up, we're going to get attacked!" This isn't hindsight, I know there are many out there who thought the same thing...but don't remember it.
When the attack came, the only thing that surprised me was the scale and ease by which it was done.
Whether the Bush League was actually involved in the planning or not makes no difference to me. I know they provoked it! THAT is the message I want to get out on this cursed day!
Hell, they've been trying to provoke an attack from Iran for months and now they are trying to provoke an attack from Pakistan. It is a schoolyard tactic. Pick on someone daily until they respond, then go running to an authority figure and accuse your victim of being the aggressor.

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What we know now about the current administration is only the tip of the iceberg
Posted by: foreverhope on Sep 11, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder what else will come out after they leave? That is why I believe there WILL be investigations into the GWB/CHENEY administration and very possibly indictments. There is already too much, there will be more, it can't all be swept under a rug, there are hundreds of loose ends, many will want and expect justice. BUT we (the dems) MUST take back the White House and a solid majority in both houses of Congress!!! Then watch it rip!

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Ralph Nader is great and all but he did not repair the Green Party for the past 8 years.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Sep 11, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Had he taken the time and energy to do so, the Democrats and Republicans would have been forced to pay attention to the actual public concerns by now. I live in a safe Dem state VT but until Ralph can get the support and infrastructure he needs to tackle the corporate elites that own both parties lock stock and barrel, I don't see the point in voting to nowhere. I might not vote at all but if Obama can turn it all around, I'll be confident to go out and vote for him even if I have to vote with a gas mask at the rate he's moving to the right of Bush.

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Total Lack of Trust in Government
Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 11, 2008 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another legacy of Bush/Cheney: people have no trust in their own government. So much so, that many intelligent people truly believe that 9/11 was a complete conspiracy, planned and carried out by Bush/Cheney.

Whether you agree with the conspiracy theorists or think they're nuts, the very fact that there are so many suggests the intensity of distrust, even hatred, of our own government.

And that's a real disaster for a Republic based on representative government.

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» RE: I'm not ready to abandon hope Posted by: taxidriver
» taxidriver Posted by: bobtr900
» RE: taxidriver Posted by: taxidriver
The real lessons.....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 11, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real lessons from 9-11 are the hubris, indifference, and plutocracy that "the government" invokes in the name of "America", all around the world! The dictators that we supported were why hostages were taken, and still no one wants to have open, honest discussions about it. In the quest to steal from the poor (90% of world population), we have continued to allow the thugs free reign. And reign they have, with all of the implications, corruptions, and corporate shenanigans to continue unabated!

These are the very systems that neither candidate is willing to talk about, the MSM doesn't cover, and Americans "appear to be blind" to! The sad truth is that for all that America stands for, the dream, that you can be all you can be, you can, with hard work and determination, do all you can to make your dreams come true! These last 30 years we the people have allowed ourselves to slumber in ignorance, we have allowed the very people that hate "the government" to become the keepers of the flame. Under the guise of patriotism, party-ism, class-ism, religious-ism, and the old standard of divide and conquer, they have, and as a country we are the poorer as a country for it!

The lessons are there, we the people have to consciously, considerately, and thoughtfully, look at what really drove the events behind the terrorism of that day, and the terrorism that we continue to have perpetrated on us still, this time from the government!

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Ann Coulter's Irresponsibility
Posted by: carolann on Sep 11, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ann's new article: "Bush-7; Terrorists-0." When Ann's sarcasm distorts factual information, then she cannot be a credible source of real news. The 911 attacks occurred on George Bush's watch. He and his administration knew it was coming beforehand and did nothing about it.

Since that tragic day, Bush has never failed to remind us of "new threats." Perhaps some attacks may have been averted. If that were true, Bush would be the first one to tell us. His "fear" tactics kept Americans fearful control for most of his time in the Oval Office.
Bush and "lie" in the same sentence is accurate. Iraq had nothing to do with 911, yet Bush repeatedly told us it did. So we went into Shock and Awe.

Rumsfeld said we would have presence in Iraq for less than one year so we sent in too few ground troops initially. After a few years into this disaster, Bush ordered a surge of troops, and now takes "pride" that he did so. Bush continues to inform us that we are "winning" in Iraq when he knows we are not. And now we know it too. We do know is that we are paying money to Iraqis to help us "look like we are winning the war."

Bush neglected every single aspect of our government's responsibilities that are "for the people, by the people." The Patriot Act is not constitutional and further, it is abused by his administration, to make it even worse.

To equate change with Hilter is a true statement, but it is irrelevant in these times. And raising the name "Hitler" today is totally insensitive to those who suffered by him. Ann should be ashamed of herself.

Think about all the issues facing every single American today. Bush has his fingerprints all over those issues. He collapsed the American Dream. And McCain will continue on, to crush it entirely.

Americans simply cannot afford more of the same, no matter what political party's preferences may be. Republicans had their chance, and they wrecked our country. We are standing at the gates of Hell now. McCain/Palin surely will open them.

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Re: Ann's Poulter's Irresponsibility
Posted by: carolann on Sep 11, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I tried to post my article on Townhall.com, a site that has many far-right bloggers. After a week of posting on this site, today I have been "censored out!" Evidently, they have flagged my ID and will not allow me to post on their site any longer.

So much for our wonderful Patriot Act. What happened to our Constitutional Right #1?? Is this AMERICA or not? The Republicans who monitor sites like Townhall are a sorry bunch of narrow-minded suppressors, and they do not uphold our Constitutional right to "free" speech!

Vote for change...but please, do not vote for more of the same. I know China has a $300 billion investment in our country, but are we now to be treated as communists?

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» That's why their party is dying Posted by: foreverhope
» Very courageous of you Posted by: Hans B
thank you all for your comments... :)
Posted by: ellie on Sep 11, 2008 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
instilling a bit of additional history to the story of 9/11... the chickens have come home to roost... look at the mess this country is in right now...

btw... don't believe in your god as in formalized religion, but thanks for the forgiveness... when it's time to go, it's time to go... period...

revisionist history doesn't work here, Churchill's article, no matter how controversial is part and parcel of the story that goes back to the founding of this country... a country founded by terror and extermination policies that still exist today...

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» crock of shit Posted by: foreverhope
» btw Ellie Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: btw Ellie Posted by: Lauren
» RE: btw Ellie Posted by: donl51
Bacevich, but
Posted by: bobtr900 on Sep 11, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bacevich makes many good points in this article, just as he did when he was a guest on Bill Moyers Journal a few weeks ago.

Bacevich seems to be saying that this war is all about the Global War On Terror (GWOT) and the miserable failure that Bush and the Neocons have made of it. I agree that they have made a total failure, and even go so far as to agree that they have caused a 700% increase in Terrorist groups, which is a position put forth by one of the credible world watchdog groups, I can't remember which one.

BUT, I am still not sure that Bacevich is correct, about this being all about the GWOT. That is only one of the theses behind this war. The other two credible theses are that this is all about oil, and oil politics. The third is that this is all about Israeli national security.

To me there are a number of good reasons to suggest that each of these reasons are correct. But there are some good reason to suggest that each of these aforementioned reasons for this war is also wrong.

Though there is some overlap for each of these reasons the most credible is that this war is really far more about oil and oil politics than anything else.

If the war in Iraq is about Israeli national security they really have not enhanced Israel's security, not one bit. Israel is as insecure a country now, as it has always been. To my way of thinking, the real path to Israeli security is closer to that which Pres. Jimmy Carter has proposed. That path is far closer to the concept that there must be peace in the ME for everyone or there will be peace for no one. Most, 62-70%,of the Israeli citizens seem to feel the same way. Two polls have reflected those numbers.

When I drill down to the bottom line, this war is really far more about oil than anything else, in fact it is almost entirely about oil. The Bushies and all of the Rethugs are really all about business, and business runs on oil/energy.

No matter how much the Bushie Rethugs jump up and down and scream religion, end abortion, and stamp out homosexuality they are totally dedicated to business. Business, business and profits, must come before anything else. They are all really nothing more than Business Fascists. Business uber alles. And business is totally dependent on oil and energy, and gasoline and electricity.

Furthermore, they even worship business and profits in their churches, it is how they measure their religiosity, as if it should be measured. Who measures religion, the answer is, they do.

Again this entire war is almost totally, or is totally about oil. Oil is at the very center of the Bush family, or at least that part of it that resides in Texas. Mammon, the golden idol, the thirty pieces of silver is at the very core of their existence. And oil is their golden idol.

As far as their seeming dedication to stamping out homosexuality and abortion, they have done little to achieve that end. From 2001 until 2007 they had a super majority and the nuclear(nu-ku-ler) option in the congress and they did not use it to end either abortion or homosexuality. They were unstoppable, and yet they did nothing. WHY???

Again, this war is more about oil and greed and power than it is about anything else. Were there no oil in the ME, there would have been no war.

However I do agree with Dr. Bacevich that most if not all of these people are co-religionists in the church of..., whatever one wants to call that church. I call it by a lot of names, including the church of fear and cowardice, or the church of supremacy, or the church of militarism, or the church of greed, or the church of egregious PRIDE, or the church of I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

I really prefer to call it the church of the "Culture of Death for Profits and Republican Party Political Power".

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» RE: Bacevich, but Posted by: Lauren
» The Dine, et. al... Posted by: bobtr900
» The Dine, et.al. Posted by: bobtr900
The Saddst thing is
Posted by: EncinoM on Sep 11, 2008 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The the Truthiness maddness is still with us. The idiots and snake oil sales men have not gone away.

Unable to understand facts and truth, the truth movement is out in force today to badger the victims and disrespect the dead.

I have only contempt for their misguided movement.

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» RE: The Saddst thing is Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: The Saddst thing is Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: The Saddst thing is Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Saddst thing is Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The Saddst thing is Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Saddst thing is Posted by: EncinoM
The REAL "elite" of the world have an agenda...
Posted by: lexicon on Sep 11, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only "problem" is figuring out, in it's particulars, what that is.


To some in that rarefied echelon, wars are a form of "sport" or perhaps a "dangerous game". there has been ample example of that throughout history. Indeed, some now allude to WW1 being a "chess game" of the elite.

The operative word being "game". In a "game" there is no REAL consequence. It is a "game". The implications of that are, that the "non-echelon" humans, are of a different definition that those that are "in-echelon".

and even if there is an actual personal consequence for the "echelon", it is part of the "spice of life".

Once we come to the realization and acceptance that this "echelon" exists (as it has existed since, well, as long as there has been civilization), the choices available to us become more clear.

We have the choice to try to fight this echelon...and that has happened many many times throughout history, and it has rarely, if ever, actually been "successful".

Like terrorists, the "echelon" are chameleons, and do not stand in the line of fire. All the organizations and individuals we perceive, such as Bush, Rumsfeld, Feith, Perle, Murdoch, Schiafe, Rockefeller, DuPont, etc., are just the fronts. Hitting out at them, is fruitless.

Another tactic we can employ, is to learn their needs and wants, and try, somehow, to mitigate the effect of their "games" on us.

Most of them understand the idea that, ultimately, they are vulnerable, and they only survive because WE are given "just enough" lucre to conduct our daily lives. But there has been an 8-year "taking", in which this core tenet has apparently been ignored.

During the Clinton years, the "little people" (us) were given enough to live on...and the rich echelon got VERY RICH. But something happened when the Bush dynasty re-took the office...they abandoned that principle, and just "took".

The core tenet of which I speak, is this: "give the little people enough to live on, and we can rule over them in perpetuity. Their little lives will not be so intolerable that they feel the need to do catastrophic upheavals of the core system".

That core tenet has been cast aside, and we are being bled dry.

Ultimately, this is a self-destructive act by the echelon, but for some reason it is being enacted now.

This either speaks to a concerted policy...as in, we now have in place the means to control the little people ULTIMATELY. (the internet is a tool for this?). or it speaks to a "changing of the guard" to a new generation that is not well-versed in the ways of maintaining the echelon, or doesn't care.

Either way, the overriding principle of living, for a "little-people" breadwinner such as myself, is to figure out how to be out of the way of the hammer, as it is swung and hits.

lexicon

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Number #1 lesson from 9/11 ?
Posted by: Sushi on Sep 11, 2008 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, don't elect another Bush in 2008.

Sushi
"The unanswered questions are not nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The greatest loss we have experienced is ALL of our Civil Liberties. We are on the verge of a police state.
I also simply can't understand how ANYONE can actually swallow the "Official" conspiracy theory of 9/11. It is full of more holes than a block of swiss cheese.
Yes, they knew it was coming, and certain officials, allowed the attacks to happen--in fact, made sure that the military were running so many war-game exercises that it would be impossible for the military to respond.
NIST recently said WTC7 collapsed from FIRE! This was a bomb-proof building! And what about the leaseholder, Larry Silverstein's own statements on public T.V.-I have them recorded-about WTC7 having been "pulled," not to mention numerous videos(I also have) of Firemen and police telling people to get back because "that building is about to be exploded," including at least one officially interviewed individual who admitted to not only being told this, but hearing a countdown over a Red-Cross radio? There's no way that people should have even expected that building to collapse--since a steel-framed building has NEVER before or since 9/11 collapsed from fire, despite some burning for 18 hours. But not only did numerous police, Firemen, and Reporters know that the building was going "be exploded" they also knew the exact time; and due to extremely symetrical and quick (7 seconds for 47 stories)collapse of the building, combined with this evidence, one would have to be retarded to believe their changed story.
More importantly:why did they change their story? I mean, supposedly the reason, according to Silverstein, they decided to pull#7 was because the Firemen didn't believe the fires could be contained. What's the problem?
Almost all of the evidence against Enron was stored in this facility, as well as Guiliani's Comm. Bunker, and numerous Fed. Agencies.
So, why did they change their story?
Maybe because, it would have been impossible to rig a building of that size for the kind of professional, wireless demolition we saw, not only because 7 was on fire, but because the average time to rig a building of that size (which would have been the tallest Bld. in 33 States) usually takes a week. But, even rushing, it would still take, at the very least, 2 days.
Which means that WTC 7 was wired to blow prior to 9/11.
Also, why did Bush stay in a school, jeapordizing his own life, the leadership of the country, and the lives of all those children, after being told the country was under attack? SOP for S.S. is to not even dicuss it, but after receiving such information, immediately move the President. He says he didn't want to scare the children. He could have simply said, "I'm sorry, kids, but some important business has come up and I must leave."
Now, I know Bush would not have stayed unless he KNEW that he wasn't in danger.
A.F.1 also took off without Fighter escort, and didn't receive it until more than midway through to their destination.
PNAC specifically said, in their 2000 manifesto, "Rebuilding America's Defenses" that, in order to implement their policies--such as invading Iraq (and taking over the internet), all of which were formulated prior to 9/11, it would be nearly impossible "without some catalyzing event such as a new Pearl Harbor."
I think anyone who accepts the fairy tale we've been told either hasn't looked at all the evidence, especially the contradictory evidence, and applied critical thinking to the situation, or just doesn't want to look in that closet.
Occams Razor: what is more likely, that somehow a hijacker's passport somehow wiggled free of his pocket, escaped from the aircraft, the blazing Tower,getting only singed, to fall at the foot of the that Tower--instead of being wafted far away by the winds at that height. Occam would say it was far more likely planted there.

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» RE: ATH Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: ATH Posted by: tibetsun
» RE: ATH Posted by: ATH
» RE: ATH Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: ATH Posted by: donl51
» RE: ATH Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: ATH Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ATH Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ATH Posted by: tibetsun
» VERGE??????? Posted by: donl51
applause, applause, applause
Posted by: gzuckier on Sep 11, 2008 1:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't possibly express how precisely correct and to the point this essay is. Or how truly tragic it is that the only folks who see it are likely to be the ones who already know the things it points out, albeit not expressed as coherently, concisely, or cogently.

On the seventh anniversary of 9/11, it should be read to the American public on every radio and TV station, and printed on the front page of every newspaper.

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't really care what other people believe, and I'm not going to spend my time debating you all, when most of you probably haven't even looked at the evidence in a critical fashion. For any interested, here is a link to a page that has all the pertinent information. This is not a movie, and it contains all the actual references. It is a compilation of NUMEROUS testimonies by
Architechs, Engineers, Professional Pilots, and ex-members of the Intelligence community, as well as Eyewitnesses, and Celebrities(for what good that is), who all think the Official conspiracy story, as outlined in both the 9/11 Commission Report and the NIST report, is B.S. and that we deperately need a new investigation--one that is truly independent.
I don't claim to know exactly what happened--but I'm smart enough to know B.S. when I read it and see it.
Like when the Commission asked Bush and Cheney to go before the Commission (see, they didn't have all the Commission in their pocket..mainly just the head guy, Zelicow) SEPERATELY and under Oath--they both refused. Bush and Cheney would only meet together, NOT under Oath, and with no recording of the event of ANY kind.
Innocent people do not act this way. Just as surprised Presidents and Secret Servive men do not stay in the same location after they've been told the Country is under attack! Unless they know there's no danger...How can you people be so DENSE?
Here's the link:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

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» RE: ATH Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: ATH Posted by: Hans B
» RE: ATH Posted by: ATH
» RE: ATH Posted by: Lauren
ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
EncinoM--How can you think this is a good story? Have you actually gone to the site? I just posted it, and there's no way you could have done any research that quickly.
No, ex-CIA, NSA, etc. officials say this was a total whitewash and cover-up.
A good story? You think I, or anyone else, actually wants to believe this? I hope I'm wrong! Unfortunately, belief does not play a role in the kind of critical thinking in which I was schooled. A "good story"--now, that is disrespectful.
Post whatever you want, but please leave your comments independent of mine, because you don't know what you are talking about. I've researched BOTH sides of this story for over a year, and I VERY RELUCTANTLY came to my conclusions, which are only that we have not been told the truth, and that both Bush and Cheney acted VERY guilty...
Why did they fight against ANY investigation at all, until those widows, "The Jersey Girls" managed to generate enough pressure to instigate one? And then, they give an investigation into the largest mass-murder in history a mere 3m to start, and want to have the master of cover-ups, Henry Kissinger, head it!!!
You know what? You really are dense.

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» RE: ATH Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: ATH Posted by: Lauren
ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 2:54 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are you here, EncinoM? Practically everyone here thinks the oppsosite of what you do. And at least some of the others that believe as you are at least trying to actually debate the topic.
You also show your ignorance in your writing, not knowing the difference between "there" and "their" and "its" and "it's."
Perhaps you should spend less time..well, you're not actually debating, because you have no ground on which to stand. You are simply insulting people.But perhaps you should spend less time doing this and more time studying 5th grade grammer.
And I have reported you for the "Face the truth and STFU" comment you posted concerning Anne Coulter.
You don't happen to live anywhere near Orlando, do you? Because if you want to insult people, we can handle this in a way that would be more suitable to your intelligence.

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» RE: ATH Posted by: EncinoM
ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 2:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, and by the way EncinoM: If we're "truthers" what does that make you?
What's the opposite of truth?

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» RE: ATH Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: ATH Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ATH Posted by: ATH
» RE: ATH Posted by: Lauren
ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 3:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I might come to NY sometime, but it's not your friends I want to "speak" with, it's you. And everything I have concluded I have done so on facts. You choose to believe the people at Popular Mechanics, and our government--which has lied to us, incessantly--fine. This, as I said before, has nothing to do with wishful thinking or a "good-story." I would actually liked to be proved wrong. I suppose you don't believe we were lied into the Iraq war, either? A lot more people have died because of that than 9/11. But you probably accept that because the corporate media has confirmed it for you. I feel sorry for you--being unable to think logically for yourself, being without an internal compass pointing towards truth.
You and I will never agree, because I follow truth, no matter where it takes me, whereas you believe what's shown on T.V. and what's comfortable to believe. You believe that Hani Hanjour, who by all acounts could barely pilot a single engine Cessna, somehow made a totally unneccesary turn, and maneuvered that jumbo jet like it was a fighter plane--people watching it on radar thought it was a fighter. Yet, you believe Popular Mechanics, which is a magazine about CARS mainly, as opposed to the statements of dozens of professional commercial airline pilots, as well as professional Fighter pilots.
Yet, I'm the one that's "following my gut."
That's some pretty convoluted logic. You can look that up if you don't know what it means, tough guy.

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Sep 11, 2008 3:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm leaving, so you can save any more comments, InsanoM..I mean, EncinoM. :)

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But have they really failed?
Posted by: Hans B on Sep 11, 2008 3:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They may not have transformed the Middle East, but they did transform the way the US conducts itself. Their sneering at international cooperation has not been muted by their apparent abject failure in getting things done unilaterally. The idea that there is a military solution to every foreign problem is still firmly in place on the Republican side.

I think they knew all along that even if they failed in Iraq, it would not matter: the militarization of the United States would continue unabated, not despite failure, but because of failure. The more the US is considered a pariah state, the more military intervention and/or blackmail becomes the only foreign policy option available. (And if they had succeeded, the opposite logic would have led to the same conclusion: since military intervention works, let's militarize our society.) War can be like gambling: if you win, you try again while doubling the bet, and if you lose, you also try again and double the bet.

The way the Republicans used Obama's successful foreign trip against him reinforces my suspicion. He's popular abroad? That's bad! It undercuts their wonderful project for the 21st century of a militaristic United States that drunkenly careens from one destructive war to another, equally sustained by believers who dream of Rapture and by cynics who see an opportunity, burning the bridges behind it until no new administration, whether Republican or Dem or Green or whatever, can find the way back from the abyss.

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Sure, Condi: the US is supporting democracy in the M. E.
Posted by: Garvagh on Sep 11, 2008 4:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the US is supporting the cause of democracy in the Middle East. When Hamas won the parliamentary elections in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the US "support" consisted of an internationally conducted effort to strangle the Palestinians in Gaza for their umwelcome endoresment of a political party unloved by Israel. To this day, numerous Palestinian members of parliament sit in Israeli prisons. More support for democracy, by the Bush administration.

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Post 911 Republicans and Democrats?
Posted by: hilly7 on Sep 11, 2008 9:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't bother to read all of this, but I read a lot of the comments, go figure. If someone think either of the puppets running have any good interests in the American people, or any people other than the agenda of the NWO, please, wake up. The two people running discuss everything but the facts. There are no differences between the two and neither will change anything that Bush and Clinton have done, especially Bush lately. We are not headed for a Police State, we're there. We are now in Pre Nazi Germany ran by the same ones that ran the Nazis. They are an elite satanic group and they have won, not because we can't beat them, but because people are stupid. It is not just here, but world-wide. Damn, does only a few here and there actually know history? Obama, McCain - difference? Turn off the TV and read! Study! Many of the comments here have done that, but sadly some haven't. Its ok though as they intend to depopulate quite considerably, and doing a good job at it.

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oxheadone
Posted by: oxheadone on Sep 12, 2008 1:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The CIA invented and promoted the Taliban in order to defeat the Russians in Afganistan. They were our friends. When Al Qaeda attacked the US, why didn't we approach the Taliban to suppress Al Qaeda? A little money goes(used to) a long way in the middle east. The answer may be that punishing Al Qaeda was not the point to the Bush administration. It looks like they were looking for an excuse for war and more war (as long as it didn't impact a majority of Americans by a draft). The war quaranteed Bush's reelection and allowed for great rewards for crony capitalism. It also allowed for increasing presidental powers and thrashing the Constitution. The attck on Iraq made no sense at all. Iraq was our major ally against Iran which is much more important economically and politically. We now have turned power in Iraq over to the Shia who are religiously connected to Iran. Saddam was our friend: he was secular, anti-Shia, anti-Al Qaeda (Bin Ladin denounced him as an infedel). We strongly backed Saddam in the Iraq-Iran war (which was a test of American military equipment vs Russian military equipment). The only unifying force the arabs have is their opposition to our (especially, military) presence in the middle east. I really do not think anyone can fix this mess.

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what about reagan?
Posted by: mtnprivy on Sep 12, 2008 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought this whole mess started when we rejected Carter's call for conservation and prudence, and elected Reagan to usher in the new age of selfishness.

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Ellie, Lauren et al - Native Americans, the Irish and 9/11
Posted by: foreverhope on Sep 12, 2008 7:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Irish call it the Great Hunger. Food was abundant in Ireland, but it was all shipped to England, only rocks and grass were left for the Irish people. My mum said many died with green mouths from eating grass before death. Horrible, there are Irish that call it genocide. BTW, there were Native Americans in the USA at that time that sent a shipload of grain to help the Irish. The English gov't kept it off-shore but I think it got through eventually.

With a large Irish population as well as a great many Irish-American police and firefighters in NYC, 9/11 is the bloodiest day in Irish history. One third of the people that died that day were Irish-American.

About one million died during the Hunger, two million Irish immigrated to the USA. Poor, starving and huddled in the bottom of ships many never got here alive. Many of the rest stayed in NYC. In fact, the Irish are responsible for building much of the infrastructure in the USA and England. They nor their ancestors ever did a single thing to hurt any Native American person or anyone else. They built new lives.

So, someone please tell me, did those Irish-Americans, police, firefighters, someone's mother, someone's dad, someone's child, sisters, brothers, ordinary people leading relatively ordinary lives, did they deserve death on 9/11 as retribution for the genocide of the Native Americans?

"Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason."

~Abraham Joshua Heschel~

***********

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Reopen 911 Investigation
Posted by: ronheri on Sep 13, 2008 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 911 Commission Report was a fraud, that failed to answer many questions. Building #7 being just one of many smoking guns, that they failed to address. A recent Zogby poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that the government is covering up the truth (I have no doubt about it). Bush drug his feet for over a year, trying to derail an investigation...why? Bush's brother was head of security of the WTC till the day of the attacks. The evidence is just overwhelming, that elements of our government were involved.

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Clean up the mess? Impossible!
Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 14, 2008 11:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The masses are in some kind of helpless state of denial. With an attention span that has been controlled by 3 to 4 seconds before they are redirected to the next scene, it's almost impossible for the world to think for themselves. The High Definition mandate by law will see to that. Truth and Reality will be controlled by the powers that be. That is unless being engaged in life instead of be just spectators.

Osama is constantly shown in old photos, video's, hold his AK-47. THose are older than dirt. And too, images of Islamic "terrorists" training climbing across monkey bars to portray "training camps.
SO much media attention to these archaic images have been used to to imprint an indelible and illusionary impression on Americans that they take them to be real.

We could show pictures of Americans own kids doing target practice within the auspices of gun clubs and children in school playing on monkey bars too as well as high school aged teens working out on obstacle courses. All these images too could be used as propaganda of Americans train the children to fight. All over America martial arts classes are taken by thousands of Americans, paint ball games, and on and on.

The point is because we see Islamic wearing black garb doesn't equate to bad people, any more than because some ones skin is black means the same. But carrying guns, that's another concern. What we believe is defined by our learned prejudices and what we are lead to believe as propaganda dictates.

We are lead to believe Osama had something to do with 911. But he is used as a scapegoat. An image that can be tagged as the enemy. This is because we can't fight one that we don't see or understand.

The fact is we have all been fed a pack of lies for a long time in order perpetuate a an economic pyramid scheme. That scheme is to direct and control the direction of the human collective.

The whole middle east theater (as the military and media like to call it) is just that, a theater. Behind the stage and up in the lights are the string pullers and backdrops that are changed to carry the peoples attention through the play.

Osama isn't the enemy. This whole facade of a high school drama class is being directed for nothing more than ticket sales. It's always about "how long can the illusionists keep the audience mesmerized" before they figure out the they've been conned.

Well the jig is up!
The only question now is, " When are the people going to take back the truth and live it VS. continue on in denial?

You know; take "the red pill or the blue pill".

When people refuse to play in the game, the game ends.

Be aware that stag is being changed to Afganistan now. Innocents are
dying in groves. Why do the American people allow it to happen? Why do those in the military allow themselves to be suckered into something they have no idea what they are doing (except for the Brass)?

Marshal Law training has been engaged here in our own country, St. Paul, Denver, New Orleans, etc. (Never forget Ruby Ridge, or Waco.)

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