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Are Cheney's Iran Dreams Shattered?

By Tom Engelhardt, Tomdispatch.com. Posted July 11, 2008.


Just because there's a will doesn't mean there's a way.
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It's been on the minds of antiwar activists and war critics since 2003. And little wonder. If you don't remember the pre-invasion of Iraq neocon quip, "Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to go to Tehran..." -- then take notice. Even before American troops entered Iraq, knocking off Iran was already "Regime Change: The Sequel." It was always on the Bush agenda and, for a faction of the administration led by Vice President Cheney, it evidently still is.


Add to that a series of provocative statements by President Bush, the Vice President, and other top U.S. officials and former officials. Take Cheney's daughter Elizabeth, who recently sent this verbal message to the Iranians: "[D]espite what you may be hearing from Congress, despite what you may be hearing from others in the administration who might be saying force isn't on the table... we're serious." Asked about an Israeli strike on Iran, she said: "I certainly don't think that we should do anything but support them." Similarly, former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton suggested that the Bush administration might launch an Iranian air assault in its last, post-election weeks in office.


Consider as well the evident relish with which the President and other top administration officials regularly refuse to take "all options" off that proverbial "table" (at which no one bothers to sit down to talk). Throw into the mix semi-official threats, warnings, and hair-raising leaks from Israeli officials and intelligence types about Iran's progress in producing a nuclear weapon and what Israel might do about it. Then there were those recent reports on a "major" Israeli "military exercise" in the Mediterranean that seemed to prefigure a future air assault on Iran. ("Several American officials said the Israeli exercise appeared to be an effort to develop the military's capacity to carry out long-range strikes and to demonstrate the seriousness with which Israel views Iran's nuclear program.")


From the other side of the American political aisle comes a language hardly less hair-raising, including Hillary Clinton's infamous comment about how the U.S. could "totally obliterate" Iran (in response to a hypothetical Iranian nuclear attack on Israel). Congressman Ron Paul recently reported that fellow representatives "have openly voiced support for a pre-emptive nuclear strike" on Iran, while the resolution soon to come before the House (H.J. Res. 362), supported by Democrats as well as Republicans, urges the imposition of the kind of sanctions and a naval blockade on Iran that would be tantamount to a declaration of war.


Stir in a string of new military bases the U.S. has been building within miles of the Iranian border, the repeated crescendos of U.S. military charges about Iranian-supplied weapons killing American soldiers in Iraq, and the revelation by Seymour Hersh, our premier investigative reporter, that, late last year, the Bush administration launched -- with the support of the Democratic leadership in Congress -- a $400 million covert program "designed to destabilize [Iran's] religious leadership," including cross-border activities by U.S. Special Operations Forces and a low-level war of terror through surrogates in regions where Baluchi and Ahwazi Arab minorities are strongest. (Precedents for this terror campaign include previous CIA-run campaigns in Afghanistan in the 1980s, using car bombs and even camel bombs against the Russians, and in Iraq in the 1990s, using car bombs and other explosives in an attempt to destabilize Saddam Hussein's regime.)


Add to this combustible mix the unwillingness of the Iranians to suspend their nuclear enrichment activities, even for a matter of weeks, while negotiating with the Europeans over their nuclear program. Throw in as well various threats from Iranian officials in response to the possibility of a U.S. or Israeli attack on their nuclear facilities, and any number of other alarums, semi-official predictions ("A senior defense official told ABC News there is an 'increasing likelihood' that Israel will carry out such an attack..."), reports, rumors, and warnings -- and it's hardly surprising that the political Internet has been filled with alarming (as well as alarmist) pieces claiming that an assault on Iran may be imminent.


Seymour Hersh, who certainly has his ear to the ground in Washington, has publicly suggested that an Obama victory might be the signal for the Bush administration to launch an air campaign against that country. As Jim Lobe of Inter Press Service has pointed out, there have been a number of "public warnings by U.S. hawks close to Cheney's office that either the Israelis or the U.S. would attack Iran between the November elections and the inaugural of a new president in January 2009."


Given the Bush administration's "preventive war" doctrine which has opened the way for the launching of wars without significant notice or obvious provocation, and the penchant of its officials to ignore reality, all of this should frighten anyone. In fact, it's not only war critics who are increasingly edgy. In recent months, jumpy (and greedy) commodity traders, betting on a future war, have boosted these fears. (Every bit of potential bad news relating to Iran only seems to push the price of a barrel of oil further into the stratosphere.) And mainstream pundits and journalists are increasingly joining them.


No wonder. It's a remarkably frightening scenario, and, if there's one lesson this administration has taught us these last years, it's that nothing's "off the table," not for officials who, only a few years ago, believed themselves capable of creating their own reality and imposing it on the planet. An "unnamed Administration official" -- generally assumed to be Karl Rove -- famously put it this way to journalist Ron Suskind back in October 2004:

"[He] said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors.... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'"

A Future Global Oil Shock


Nonetheless, sometimes -- as in Iraq -- reality has a way of biting back, no matter how mad or how powerful the imperial dreamer. So, let's consider reality for a moment. When it comes to Iran, reality means oil and natural gas. These days, any twitch of trouble, or potential trouble, affecting the petroleum market, no matter how minor -- from Mexico to Nigeria -- forces the price of oil another bump higher.


Possessing the world's second largest reserves of oil and natural gas, Iran is no speed bump on the energy map. The National Security Network, a group of national security experts, estimates that the Bush administration's policy of bluster, threat, and intermittent low-level actions against Iran has already added a premium of $30-$40 to every $140 barrel of oil. Then there was the one-day $11 spike after Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz suggested that an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear facilities was "unavoidable."


Given that, let's imagine, for a moment, what almost any version of an air assault -- Israeli, American, or a combination of the two -- would be likely to do to the price of oil. When asked recently by Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News about the effects of an Israeli attack on Iran, correspondent Richard Engel responded: "I asked an oil analyst that very question. He said, 'The price of a barrel of oil? Name your price: $300, $400 a barrel.'" Former CIA official Robert Baer suggested in Time Magazine that such an attack would translate into $12 gas at the pump. ("One oil speculator told me that oil would hit $200 a barrel within minutes.")


Those kinds of price leaps could take place in the panic that preceded any Iranian response. But, of course, the Iranians, no matter how badly hit, would be certain to respond -- by themselves and through proxies in the region in a myriad of possible ways. Iranian officials have regularly been threatening all sorts of hell should they be attacked, including "blitzkrieg tactics" in the region. Oil Minister Gholam Hossein Nozari typically swore that his country would "react fiercely, and nobody can imagine what would be the reaction of Iran." The head of Iran's Revolutionary Guard, Mohammed Jafari, said: "Iran's response to any military action will make the invaders regret their decision and action." ("Mr. Jafari had already warned that if attacked, Iran would launch a barrage of missiles at Israel and close the Strait of Hormuz, the outlet for oil tankers leaving the Persian Gulf.") Ali Shirazi, Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's representative to the Revolutionary Guards, offered the following: "The first bullet fired by America at Iran will be followed by Iran burning down its vital interests around the globe."


Let's take a moment to imagine just what some of the responses to any air assault might be. The list of possibilities is nearly endless and many of them would be hard even for the planet's preeminent military power to prevent. They might include, as a start, the mining of the Strait of Hormuz, through which a significant portion of the world's oil passes, as well as other disruptions of shipping in the region. (Don't even think about what would happen to insurance rates for oil tankers!)


In addition, American troops on their mega-bases in Iraq, rather than being a powerful force in any attack -- Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has already cautioned President Bush that Iraqi territory cannot be used to attack Iran -- would instantly become so many hostages to Iranian actions, including the possible targeting of those bases by missiles. Similarly, U.S. supply lines for those troops, running from Kuwait past the southern oil port of Basra might well become hostages of a different sort, given the outrage that, in Shiite regions of Iraq, would surely follow an attack. Those lines would assumedly not be impossible to disrupt.


Imagine, as well, what possible disruptions of the modest Iraqi oil supply might mean in the chaos of the moment, with Iranian oil already off the market. Then consider what the targeting of even small numbers of Iranian missiles on the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields could do to global oil markets. (It might not even matter whether they actually hit anything.) And that, of course, just scratches the surface of the range of retaliatory possibilities available to Iranian leaders.


Looked at another way, Iran is a weak regional power (which hasn't invaded another country in living memory) that nonetheless retains a remarkable capacity to inflict grievous harm locally, regionally, and globally.


Such a scenario would result in a global oil shock of almost inconceivable proportions. For any American who believes that he or she is experiencing "pain at the pump" right now, just wait until you experience what a true global oil shock would involve.


And that's without even taking into consideration what spreading chaos in the oil heartlands of the planet might mean, or what might happen if Hezbollah or Hamas took action of any sort against Israel, and Israel responded. Mohamed ElBaradei, the sober-minded head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, considering the situation, said the following: "A military strike, in my opinion, would be worse than anything possible. It would turn the region into a fireball..."


This, then, is the baseline for any discussion of an attack on Iran. This is reality, and it has to be daunting for an administration that already finds itself militarily stretched to the limit, unable even to find the reinforcements it wants to send into Afghanistan.


Can Israel Attack Iran?


Let's leave to the experts the question of whether Israel could actually launch an effective air strike against Iranian nuclear facilities on its own -- about which there are grave doubts. And let's instead try to imagine what it would mean for Israel to launch such an assault (egged on by the Vice President's faction in the U.S. government) in the last months, or even weeks, of the second term of an especially lame lame-duck President and an historically unpopular administration.


From Iran's foreign minister, we already know that the Iranians would treat an Israeli attack as if it were an American one, whether or not American planes were involved -- and little wonder. For one thing, Israeli planes heading for Iran would undoubtedly have to cross Iraqi air space, at present controlled by the United States, not the nearly air-force-less Maliki government. (In fact, in Status of Forces Agreement negotiations with the Iraqis, the Bush administration has demanded that the U.S. retain control of that air space, up to 29,000 feet, after December 31, 2008, when the U.N. mandate runs out.)


In other words, on the eve of the arrival of a new American administration, Israel, a small, vulnerable Middle Eastern state deeply reliant on its American alliance, would find itself responsible for starting an American war (associated with a Vice President of unparalleled unpopularity) and for a global oil shock of staggering proportions, if not a global great depression. It would also be the proximate cause for a regional "fireball." (Oil-poor Israel would undoubtedly also be economically wounded by its own strike.)


In addition, the latest American National Intelligence Estimate on Iran concluded that the Iranians stopped weaponizing parts of their nuclear program back in 2003, and American intelligence reputedly doubts recent Israeli warnings that Iran is on the verge of a bomb. Of course, Israel itself has an estimated -- though unannounced -- nuclear force of about 200 such weapons.


Simply put, it is next to inconceivable that the present riven Israeli government would be politically capable of launching such an attack on Iran on its own, or even in combination with only a faction, no matter how important, in the U.S. government. And such a point is more or less taken for granted by many Israelis (and Iranians). Without a full-scale "green light" from the Bush administration, launching such an attack could be tantamount to long-term political suicide.


Only in conjunction with an American attack would an Israeli attack (rash to the point of madness even then) be likely. So let's turn to the Bush administration and consider what might be called the Hersh scenario.


Will the Bush administration Attack Iran If Obama Is Elected?


The first problem is a simple one. Oil, which was at $146 a barrel last week, dropped to $136 (in part because of a statement by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad dismissing "the possibility that war with the United States and Israel was imminent"), and, on Wednesday rose a dollar to $137 in reaction to Iranian missile tests. But, whatever its immediate zigs and zags, the overall pattern of the price of oil seems clear enough. Some suggest that, by the time of any Obama victory, a barrel of crude oil will be at $170. The chairman of the giant Russian oil monopoly Gazprom recently predicted that it would hit $250 within 18 months -- and that's without an attack on Iran.


For those eager to launch a reasonably no-pain campaign against Iran, the moment is already long gone. Every leap in the price of oil only emphasizes the pain to come. In turn, that means, with every passing day, it's madder -- and harder -- to launch such an attack. There is already significant opposition within the administration; the American people, feeling pain, are unprepared for and, as polls indicate, massively unwilling to sanction such an attack. There can be no question that the Bush legacy, such as it is, would be secured in infamy forever and a day.


Now, consider recent administration actions on North Korea. Facing a "reality" that first-term Bush officials would have abjured, the President and his advisors not only negotiated with that nuclearized Axis of Evil nation, but are now removing it from the Trading with the Enemy Act list and the State Sponsor of Terrorism list. No matter what steps Kim Jong Il's regime has taken, including blowing up the cooling tower at the Yongbyon reactor, this is nothing short of a stunning reversal for this administration. An angry John Bolton, standing in for the Cheney faction, compared what happened to a "police truce with the Mafia." And Vice President Cheney's anger over the decision -- and the policy -- was visible and widely reported.


It's possible, of course, that Cheney and associates are simply holding their fire for what they care most about, but here's another question that needs to be considered: Does George W. Bush actually support his imperial Vice President in the manner he once did? There's no way to know, but Bush has always been a more important figure in the administration than many critics like to imagine. The North Korean decision indicates that Cheney may not have a free hand from the President on Iran policy either.


The Adults in the Room


And what about the opposition? I'm not talking about those of us out here who would oppose such a strike. I mean within the world of Bush's Washington. Forget the Democrats. They hardly count and, as Hersh has pointed out, their leadership already signed off on that $400 million covert destabilization campaign.


I mean the adults in the room, who have been in short supply indeed these last years in the Bush administration, specifically Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen. (Condoleezza Rice evidently falls into this camp as well, although she's proven herself something of a President-enabling nonentity over the years.)


With former Carter National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski, Gates tellingly co-chaired a task force sponsored by the Council on Foreign Relations back in 2004 which called for negotiations with Iran. He arrived at the Pentagon early in 2007 as an envoy from the world of George H.W. Bush and as a man on a mission. He was there to staunch the madness and begin the clean up in the imperial Augean stables.


In his Congressional confirmation hearings, he was absolutely clear: any attack on Iran would be a "very last resort." Sometimes, in the bureaucratic world of Washington, a single "very" can tell you what you need to know. Until then, administration officials had been referring to an attack on Iran simply as a "last resort." He also offered a bloodcurdling scenario for what the aftermath of such an American attack might be like:
"It's always awkward to talk about hypotheticals in this case. But I think that while Iran cannot attack us directly militarily, I think that their capacity to potentially close off the Persian Gulf to all exports of oil, their potential to unleash a significant wave of terror both in the -- well, in the Middle East and in Europe and even here in this country is very real... Their ability to get Hezbollah to further destabilize Lebanon I think is very real. So I think that while their ability to retaliate against us in a conventional military way is quite limited, they have the capacity to do all of the things, and perhaps more, that I just described."

And perhaps more... That puts it in a nutshell.


Hersh, in his most recent piece on the administration's covert program in Iran, reports the following:
"A Democratic senator told me that, late last year, in an off-the-record lunch meeting, Secretary of Defense Gates met with the Democratic caucus in the Senate. (Such meetings are held regularly.) Gates warned of the consequences if the Bush Administration staged a preemptive strike on Iran, saying, as the senator recalled, 'We'll create generations of jihadists, and our grandchildren will be battling our enemies here in America.' Gates's comments stunned the Democrats at the lunch."

In other words, back in 2007, early and late, our new secretary of defense managed to sound remarkably like one of those Iranian officials issuing warnings. Gates, who has a long history as a skilled Washington in-fighter, has once again proven that skill. So far, he seems to have outmaneuvered the Cheney faction.


The March "resignation" of CENTCOM commander Admiral William J. Fallon, outspokenly against an administration strike on Iran, sent both a shiver of fear through war critics and a new set of attack scenarios coursing through the political Internet, as well as into the world of the mainstream media. As reporter Jim Lobe points out at his invaluable Lobelog blog, however, Admiral Mike Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Gates's man in the Pentagon, has proven nothing short of adamant when it comes to the inadvisabilty of attacking Iran.


His recent public statements have actually been stronger than Fallon's (and the position he fills is obviously more crucial than CENTCOM commander). Lobe comments that, at a July 2nd press conference at the Pentagon, Mullen "repeatedly made clear that he opposes an attack on Iran -- whether by Israel or his own forces -- and, moreover, favors dialogue with Tehran, without the normal White House nuclear preconditions."


Mullen, being an adult, has noticed the obvious. As columnist Jay Bookman of the Atlanta Constitution put the matter recently: "A U.S. attack on Iran's nuclear installations would create trouble that we aren't equipped to handle easily, not with ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, drove that point home in a press conference last week at the Pentagon."


The Weight of Reality


Here's the point: Yes, there is a powerful faction in this administration, headed by the Vice President, which has, it seems, saved its last rounds of ammunition for a strike against Iran. The question, of course, is: Are they still capable of creating "their own reality" and imposing it, however briefly, on the planet? Every tick upwards in the price of oil says no. Every day that passes makes an attack on Iran harder to pull off.


On this subject, panic may be everywhere in the world of the political Internet, and even in the mainstream, but it's important not to make the mistake of overestimating these political actors or underestimating the forces arrayed against them. It's a reasonable proposition today -- as it wasn't perhaps a year ago -- that, whatever their desires, they will not, in the end, be able to launch an attack on Iran; that, even where there's a will, there may not be a way.


They would have to act, after all, against the unfettered opposition of the American people; against leading military commanders who, even if obliged to follow a direct order from the President, have other ways to make their wills known; against key figures in the administration; and, above all, against reality which bears down on them with a weight that is already staggering -- and still growing.


And yet, of course, for the maddest gamblers and dystopian dreamers in our history, never say never.

Editor's note: For a laugh-out-loud funny faux biography recounting Dick Cheney's childhood -- his youthful lust for guns, oil, and the girl of his dreams -- get a copy of Young Dick Cheney: Great American, just published by AlterNet Books.

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See more stories tagged with: iran, war, oil, gas prices, oil prices

Tom Engelhardt, editor of Tomdispatch.com, is co-founder of the American Empire Project and author of The End of Victory Culture.

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Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 11, 2008 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There must be the world's biggest bong pipe bubbling away at Alternet, because if you think Dick has been scuppered, you are mistaken. In fact, Dick has never had things pointing his way like they do now. America's allies are basically on board, the military assets are in place, Israel is all juiced up and ready to go, and Iran is falling apart from the inside. Don't underestimate America's most astute political force for decades.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: No Posted by: Lauren
» RE: No Posted by: Lauren
» And don't forget Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: No Posted by: govfoe
Response to Bobsays
Posted by: Archangel on Jul 11, 2008 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh yeah! Right!
Cheyney the most astute political force...WHATEVER.
How about I give you just a few of El Politico's grand achievements? There are many more but I won't belabor this sad point.
Was this the dude that helped us into the Iraq debacle by lying to the American people?
Wanted to go to Iraq raher than track Bin Laden down, in Afghanistan, as they should have done...WHATEVER!
The dude that outed an American CIA officer as political revenge, placing hundreds of operatives in danger...WHATEVER!
Over-spent America's money to the extent that the stock market is at it's lowest point since 1996...WHATEVER!
Newsflash...yesterday Fannie Mae and Freddie Mae showed certain signs of tanking, and taking the economy even lower...WHATEVER!
Thousands of American boys killed, thousands more maimed, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's dead...WHATEVER!
So pathologically controlling is El Capitano that scientists calling our attention to the gravity of global warming were restrained from telling the American people the truth...WHATEVER.
Backroom deals with big oil resulting in four dollar a gallon gasoline...WHATEVER!
Oil at twenty dollars a barrel when Mr. Politically Astute takes office and now at one hundred and forty-five dollars a barrel...WHATEVER!
All of this, all of it, for the failed neo-can dream of global dominance.
Wake up man, Cheney and his minions are sicko sociopaths, and are more concerned with their unrealistic neo-con fantasies than with the plight of those they should be serving. They have had their hands in your pockets for years and you (El Stupido) are singing their praises?
Chump!
They all should all be tried and convicted of treason.

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» RE: esponse to Bobsays Posted by: Lauren
Race to the Finish Line (January 20, 2009)
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Jul 11, 2008 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The White House’s propaganda campaign laying the groundwork for military action against Iran dates back over six years—to Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address in which he designated Iran as a founding member of the “axis of evil.” Since then, this drumbeat has waxed and waned as other concerns—primarily the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq—have often commanded center stage. Now, with the Bush administration entering its final months in office, a renewed push and a shorter fuse are increasingly evident. My 3-minute online video entitled “Forewarned Is Forearmed: Bush On Iran” is available HERE. It offers a very brief but deeply troubling chronicle of the president’s public warmongering and demonization of Iran.

Such manipulation of public sentiment has been a key part of the White House’s entire Iraq war enterprise, so we should not be surprised to see it play a similar role in any military attack on Iran. For those interested in a psychological analysis of this warmongering, I have also recently completed an online video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It examines how the Bush administration’s messaging targets five core concerns that often govern our lives--concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. The video describes these warmongering appeals and offers suggestions for how to counter them. It’s available for viewing HERE.

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Reality is Beginning To Dawn Throughout All Levels of Society Including That Above Political Pawns
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 11, 2008 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The power structure is supposed to be a pyramid with only those at the very top knowing the full real agenda and everyone else just doing their own compartmentalised job.

But the full picture is beginning to emerge at a level much higher than the politicians and the elites are in dispute about the details re achieving their nirvana of full and complete control of the World.

Sure, they planned World War I and World War II, which advanced their agenda significantly without completely destroying the human race.

But the ball game has now changed.

Whilst an attack on Iran might not immediately result in a Third World War going Nuclear, there is still the very strong possibility that it would.

Even if that scenario didn't unfold, the very real possibility of a nuclear attack on Israel can't be dismissed, together with an immediate massive reduction in oil supplies that would result in the most unvelievable chaos and civil war throughout the entire World.

The elites are now discussing - is this really a good idea? Surely there are better ways of achieving our World Government without risking completely destroying the planet.

The entire idea is to Control the Human Race not totally Kill them all.

Check Out The current most popular video on Google in the UK - and Fourth most popular in the World. I thought this guy was a complete loon until I watched it. It's BRILLIANT

http://www.edgemediatv.com/icke/

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» RE:David Icke Posted by: manatthewindow
» RE: David Icke Posted by: opmoc
» David Icke is a lunatic Posted by: brunowe
He lies, He, lies, he lies, until he believes it himself...
Posted by: jmndodge on Jul 11, 2008 4:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This old proverb seems to characterize the bush administration. They really believe their agenda, propoganda, and the inevitability of their vision. Iran;s defeat and liberation is part of that vision, and believing themselves to be doing God's Will, their prophetic agenda must ultimately succeed. Place this with their present very low approval ratings, and the gamblers agenda, they will be willing to attempt the hail Mary, go for broke touchdown pass in the final seconds. Indeed, even the cheers of the home crowd against them only inspire their efforts. This administration remains dangerous, powerful and extremely pathological.

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Idiots Abound
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 11, 2008 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the US or Israel, or both, make war against Iran, it will be the beginning of World War III. Literally, all hell will break loose and the world will explode into unspeakable violence.

I have had enough of the US' antics, and I have decided to leave the country as soon as possible. I was born here and have lived here most of my life, but I can't take anymore of this. I don't hold out any hope for change after the elections in November - there are too many balls rolling, too many players, too many lies. The deceit and the lying are the worst of it. I am utterly horrified at what this country has become, and its descent into fascism is only beginning.

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» You had better move quickly Posted by: Last Chance
» Summer holiday anyone? Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Summer holiday anyone? Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Idiots Abound Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Idiots Abound Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Idiots Abound Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Idiots Abound Posted by: Dboy
donot reckon on europe.
Posted by: richholland on Jul 11, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the first world war was between germany 65.000.000
inhabitants and AustriaHungaru 50.000.ooo

and England 45.ooo.ooo with France 40.000.ooo.

the result 4 years of misery. IRAN has 55.000.000 inhabitants.
USA seems not to be able to keep millions of illegal mexicans out of the USA.
How to prevent infiltration by your enemies??
The whole nation got mad on 9/11.
If USA attacks IRAN how many 9/11 the american population likes to have???
From the Vietnam war the militairy learned much, and militairy seen USA is always the winner. But what is the price for our women and children?
Remember once the germans had the best army in the world but they lost the war.

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Military action is imminent
Posted by: Last Chance on Jul 11, 2008 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only thing that can squelch the imperial dreams of Cheney and Bush is impeachment, and as we all know, it's "off the table" because Congress has become their timid servant just waiting for orders.

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Don't let your guard down.
Posted by: chorton on Jul 11, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just saw The Pianist. It is a sobering reminder of the depths of depravity to which those who summon the forces of militarism, irrationality and intolerance in the cause of world conquest can sink.

Bush and Co. are master players in the game of world domination. They have a vision and a strategy that assumes the peak oil crisis, sees domination of the remaining reserves as the strategic height to be seized, and places no importance on the "collateral damage". They have gathered behind them the forces of religious and racial bigotry, a dangerous witches' brew of militarism, fanaticism and irrationality, and they have purposefully put in place laws and myths to facilitate seizing full power.

Are the things Tom is pointing to real? Is the opposition to their schemes - within or without the ruling circles -growing? Yes. Is there reason to hope they can be beaten? Yes. Should we grow complacent about the danger of war with Iran? Not for a minute! My sense is that Bush has the power to make this war happen, generals and captains of industry be damned, and he intends to yank the trip wire he has set, soon. Unless he can be stopped.

Kucinich's push for Impeachment is based on this perception, and is an effort to get the people to focus on the heart of the danger and put it in check. I was heartened to see in yesterday's Politico that Nancy Pelosi may be opening the door a crack to discussing Impeachment.

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» What guard???? Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: What guard???? Posted by: Dboy
salamah mahdi
Posted by: salamah on Jul 11, 2008 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Israel did in 1956 to get the Brits and the French to lauch a tripartite war of aggression against Egypt, they are doing the same in 2008 by getting the US to launch an Israeli-US war of aggression against Iran! 1956 ended in the very last tolling of the bell for Imperial Great Britain and France, both, plus a humiliating retreat from Sinai for Israel under the threat of missile strikes by Kruschev-Bulganin's Soviet Union against London, Paris and Tel Aviv! Guess what will happen this time! There is no Soviet Union in 2008 but there is a speedily recovering Russia. Further, today's Iran is not the Egypt of 1956, not even the Iraq of 2003. In 1956 the Suez Canal was shut down, in 2008 the Strait of Hormuz will shut down. In 1956 the Egyptians had nothing to hit the British military base in Cyprus with which was the nearest British target. In 2008 there are many many 'sitting duck' American targets in the Persian/Arabian Gulf Region, including the US bases in Iraq, all within range of Iranian missiles and the ones in Iraq easily accessible to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and the regular Iranian Armed Forces. For Israel the back lash would be catastrophic; Iranian missiles, Hizbollah missiles and Syrian-Hizbollah walk into Israel. For what, all this? For Dick Cheney? For AIPAC? For Dubya's LEGACY? For what and at what price? When will the DUMB Americans wake up? It seems never, just as the Brits and the French did not care to wake up early enough in 1956, neither will the Americans. For whom will the bell toll in 2008? Guess!

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» RE: salamah mahdi Posted by: richholland
Dockside
Posted by: rtmyth on Jul 11, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iran is next, as dictated by Israel and its' surrogates --the Admin, Congress, and the rest of the power elite, who want more wars; they are profitable. We are just one slight maneuver from full conflict, which will probably be bombing and shelling to realize total destruction.

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» RE: Dockside Posted by: richholland
Oh, don't worry. As long as Mccain or Obama gets the White House,
Posted by: jwverez on Jul 11, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America will DROWN itself to DEATH in Iran. Cheney's as "happy" as he can be this entire decade. Get ready for $10+ per gallon coming to a gas station near you !

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IPEACHMENT NOW!!!!!!
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jul 11, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current crop of bandits in this administration have obviously learned nothing from the debacle in Afghanistan and Iraq! The neocon fantasy of the few elite ruling the world is a farce. It too will go the way of the Roman Empire.

How much more money spent, bodies killed, and economy lost before Congress does what they should have years ago and IMPEACH the bastards for Treason, High Crimes and Misdemeanors against American/World civilization.

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» RE: IPEACHMENT NOW!!!!!! Posted by: Last Chance
Now
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jul 11, 2008 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the sooner we get Dictator Bush and his 'Regime" out of the White Hosue, the better off we will all be!

JT
Online Privacy when it Counts

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» RE: Now Posted by: Dboy
Congress IMPEACHES Themselves!
Posted by: williameon on Jul 11, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Prerequisites for War.
#1 No WMD
(We'll bring plenty)
#2 Oil
#3 Brown skin color

Dead Eye is almost out of nails!
(Chainey Double Bubble)

Who was in the bunker?

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Chaos Theory?
Posted by: JayHaden on Jul 11, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom, Tom, Tom (sigh). Go back and reread the gospel according to Karl. These guys are facing subpoenas, being thrown out of power, loss of cover, jail time -- this is the end game after 30 years of conniving and scheming?

As I recall, the neo-con playbook includes induced chaos that will have us all clamoring for strong, strong leadership for a long, long time. Drilling the Arctic for oil is not just a corporate propelled scam, it is our ace in the hole for the projected length of time it takes us to gain some control over other sources.

I'm not a student of Israel, but it seems to have as many power mad and war hungry politicians as the US -- a symbiotic match made in hell. Say we let the Israeli's "defend" their own interests by blowing away parts of Iran (like the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor). Iran responds by declaring war on Israel and its allies (like the US did after PH). Then let the fun begin.

As for our "adults", I do remember reading somewhere that many of the German generals were also realists, mortified when asked to make their leader's fantasies come true. In the end, they were good soldiers. WWII was the resulting new reality that we are still studying 50-60 million lives later.

If our good generals have learned anything from that reality, they should be planning a coup in order to restore the government to the People. Of course, this would normally be the Reichstag's -- I mean Congress's -- duty.

Impeach the Pair!

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» RE: Chaos Theory? Posted by: Last Chance
He lies, lies, lies, till you believe it! It's called CONDITIONING!
Posted by: williameon on Jul 11, 2008 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dick knows exactly what he is doing.
That's his job.
He's a low level Henchman.
An ugly face perpetrating ghastly crimes
He has never done the right thing and
Why should he start now?
The WHOLE Corpirate System is Corrupt
Accept it.

How do we change it?

Remember!

Baby steps:
Count votes
Free the Media
Organic gardens and
Green Energy

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» votes Posted by: the baron
Get a rope!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jul 11, 2008 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've had enough of this sub-human son-of-a-bitch. Its time to get a rope!

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There is only one way to stop the madness in Iraq...
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 11, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Elect Obama in November.

There are no guarantees with Barack, of course. But for sure, if John McBush wins, Iraq will suck us dry and continue making Chicken Hawk Cheney and his fascist pals rich.

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I think we need to bomb...
Posted by: ranchero42 on Jul 11, 2008 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wyoming before it's too late. Fresh nuance for the Jackson hole.

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Let's hope not
Posted by: jstepp590 on Jul 11, 2008 11:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's hope they won't have a way to accomplish an attack on Iran. If they do it then we will have no choice but to prosecute them.

Also, if Bush and Cheney keep it up they may have to leave the country when they get out of office. Otherwise, they may make the book of records for the only President and Vice President to get assasinated AFTER they leave office. I don't think there are enough Secret Service agents that could protect them here, if their bodyguards would even try to considering the material they are protecting.

Personally I say just send them to the Hague to face charges. We can't try them for crimes here in the US as there would be too much political mayhem for that. However, the Hague prosecutes government leaders all the time and they could have a fair and impartial trial followed by some first class hangings.

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cheney's dreams shattered?
Posted by: willymack on Jul 11, 2008 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know about his dreams, but I'd like to see HIM shattered. His image in a mirror, wearing an orange jump suit, shackled and handcuffed, would do the trick nicely.

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Let's shatter his pacemaker first,
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Jul 11, 2008 7:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and his dreams will take care of themselves.

jdfu!

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Consider this
Posted by: usmarks on Jul 11, 2008 8:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone given any thought to the idea that these guys want to create chaos in the final months of their reign. They have all the power and the forces, Blackwater, et al, to declare martial law here in our country. They have struggled so hard to create this imperial presidency and reduce our economy to the status of a third world country I am having a real hard time believing they will just walk away when the time comes. Our military is beaten down and isolated in some mideast hell hole so their loyalty may not even factor in. I shudder to think of what they are capable of, particularly concerning a President-elect Obama. Sounds like a thriller novel but I no longer believe this is the country I thought I grew up in.

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Cheney & Bush WANT $400/barrel Oil
Posted by: mgloraine on Jul 12, 2008 11:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney & Bush are "disaster capitalists" as described by Naomi Klein in the "Shock Doctrine". Making the price of oil suddenly jump to $400 or more would make both of them very happy, so the possibility of a global oil shock is certainly not a deterrent to two big-shot oil tycoons looking for massive profits in record time.

They have previously demonstrated a complete disregard for the opinions and welfare of the American People, as well as every other country or world leader who didn't immediately join them in lock-step while marching to Baghdad. Why would they suddenly care that everyone is against them when most people have been against them all along? It didn't stop them from invading, conquering and colonizing Iraq. They figure that if they wait long enough, they can still inflict the damage they intend without the prospect of having to defend their office or deal with the consequences themselves. Don't forget that Cheney & Bush are sociopaths, so the pain and suffering they would cause probably don't enter into their calculations, unless it's for their entertainment value. The potential for human misery is not a deterrent to Cheney & Bush, either.

The fact that we don't have adequate military personnel to carry out another Iraq-style invasion/conquest is no obstacle to someone with nuclear-armed cruise missiles at his disposal. The US military can't physically occupy Iran right now, but that won't stop Cheney-Bush from pulverizing Iran's infrastructure to help bring on that profitable oil shock.

The reasoning presented in the article only makes sense for normal people, who want to do the right thing most of the time, who strive for peace and prosperity, who avoid harming people, who are not criminals. Cheney and Bush do not belong to that group. As a result, I am not convinced that there is anyone or anything which will stop Cheney from attacking Iran. I do, however, believe he will attack BEFORE the election rather than after, because he also wants to shock voters with the onset of nuclear war, thinking that many will be swayed to vote for McCain as a bona fide war-monger and hater of Iranians.

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govfoe
Posted by: govfoe on Jul 13, 2008 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hmmmm let's see who is running this discussion board.... the same ole same oles?

I believe Israel is NOT our allie. I believe Israel and her apologists are blackmailing Bush and Cheney into action by upsetting oil and currency markets with their hyperbole.

Every time an Israeli speaks of the inevitable invasion of Iran - the markets go nuts.

Tell me - alternet regulars... when Bill Kristol says such things using the Fox megaphone - is that TREASON? -- is he an American or an American Jew?

waiting for the sky to fall .....

we won't solve these problems if we cannot name the demons

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tyneham
Posted by: tyneham on Jul 17, 2008 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
USA-Iran "talks" linked text are "designed to fail, get top target lists, and manufacture pretexts to bomb Iran for years. That is William Burn's remit or brief," according to a top US intelligence source.

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