COMMENTS: 208
The Roots of 'Necklacing': Why White Farmers in Zimbabwe Are Responsible for the Killings in South Africa
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"The native is to be treated as a child and denied the franchise. We must adopt a system of despotism in our relations with the barbarians of Southern Africa ... I personally prefer land to niggers." -- Cecil Rhodes, Founder of "Rhodesia" (Zimbabwe) (1887)
"We do not accept that Britain has a special responsibility to meet the costs of land purchase in Zimbabwe. We are a new Government from diverse backgrounds without links to former colonial interests." -- Clare Short, UK Secretary of State for International Development (1997)There was a sad little war in South Africa last week. Actually, it was one of the latest battles in a war that's been going on for over a hundred years. Like they say in the Congo, "Mokilo e komplike," "It's a complicated world.
Like a lot of wars, this one was between two groups that lost out in the bigger war. Now they're forced to fight each other for scraps, while the real bad guys, the British, send camera crews to go "tsk-tsk" at how uncivilized it all is. The way the BBC tells it, this wasn't even a war, just "riots" by Zulu mobs targeting Zimbabwean immigrants, but it was war. In most places and most times, war isn't uniformed armies meeting on the field of battle, but mobs looking for people from the enemy tribe to kill. When they find them, they kill them just like the Zulu mobs killed any Zimbabwean immigrant lucky enough to fall into their hands: in the goriest way possible, in order to scare the rest of the enemy tribe off the disputed turf.
It may not sound pretty, but then Gettysburg probably wasn't very pretty either, if you were screaming your head off after getting your leg blown off by a cannonball. The Great War wasn't very pretty if your eyes were melting down your face after you'd been gassed. The Eastern Front wasn't pretty, if you were a peasant woman wondering which army would be the one to rape, rob and kill you. You could go out on a limb and say that war in general isn't that pretty, if you're actually in it. So why do most people flinch at this kind of war, with mobs necklacing immigrants, more than they do at "conventional" war? One reason is that in this kind of war, the mob goes out of its way to invent new, horrible ways to kill people. Take necklacing, the favorite lynching method in South Africa for the last few decades. You tie up the victim, douse a car tire with gasoline, wrap it around his neck, and set it on fire. Pretty nasty stuff, but not "crazy" or "senseless."
The first thing to consider is how something as grim as necklacing got started. Necklacing evolved in the townships as a way of punishing police informers. You have to imagine the situation a little more vividly than most squeamish first-worlders are willing to do: the police and the army have a monopoly on weapons, so the guerrillas -- in this case, the ANC -- has to rely on its superiority in intelligence, information, secrecy. Ever since Michael Collins taught the Irish to stop trying to fight the British Army and focus on "putting out the eyes" of the occupier by killing his spies, guerrillas have been able to take down militarily superior forces. But this method requires that the guerrillas know everything about the occupiers, and the occupiers know nothing about the guerrillas. Anyone who informs for the police or army is a deadly enemy, and has to be killed in a way that will not only end the immediate threat but terrify anybody else who might be thinking of turning snitch into reconsidering.
And there are always potential snitches around. Again, use your imagination; this stuff isn't happening in Switzerland but in places where people are very poor and desperate. The police and army aren't squeamish about putting pressure on potential informants, and they control both rewards -- money -- and threats, like the power to arrest or "disappear" anybody they want. The pressure to inform is very strong.
Against that, what does the insurgent neighborhood have? It can't put people in jail, or pass out big wads of cash, or rely on moral force to keep the locals in line. Again, imagine how enemy occupation would play out in the neighborhood where you grew up (if everybody was suddenly poor and terrified). Some families might resist the occupier, but others would be, let's say, tempted. Others would just be terrorized into collaborating. Either way, they know enough to name names, provide a list that will wipe out the insurgency in your town.
If the neighborhood thinks somebody's a threat, they have to act fast, and they have to do something so horrible it'll stick in everybody's memory. That's how you get necklacing: the horribleness of the death is the whole point. And what you see with necklacing is that it's horrible to look at, not just to suffer. There are all sorts of ways to kill people so as to produce horrible pain, but that's not the main point in this kind of killing. It's the show that matters. In a lot of necklacings, in fact, the victim was beaten to death or shot, then necklaced. The point was to make a spectacle of them, an example, let everybody see their corpse burning slowly. A whole ritual evolved where everybody took turns bashing the burning body with sticks. It didn't hurt the victim, who was already dead, but it looked horrific and it forced everybody in the neighborhood to make a demonstration that they were on the insurgents' side, made them accomplices. Again, it's not pretty, but it worked; informing got to be much less popular as a career choice in places like Soweto.
OK, you could say, but that's informants, that's the ANC; what's that got to do with Zulu mobs necklacing poor Zimbabwean immigrants? A lot, actually. These Zulu mobs have a simple goal: they want the immigrants out. They don't have the military power to wipe out large numbers of immigrants; that's what those nice conventional armies, the ones we like so much, would try to do. They have to use the few hours they have before the army is called in to terrorize large numbers of immigrants by killing a few in a particularly horrible way. In a bizarre way you could even argue that this kind of terror killing is less bloodthirsty than bombing cities, where the goal is to wipe out everybody in the place. No mob hopes to do that. They want to kill a few with maximum exposure, to scare the rest back across the border. That's why the township mobs fighting the apartheid government were usually tolerant of news crews filming their necklacings: they wanted as much publicity as they could get. They wanted word to get around: "This is what happens to informers." Of course, "mob rule" means things get sloppy, the victims aren't always informers, just unpopular neighbors. And of course, smooth talkers turn the mobs against personal enemies, people whose TVs they want, and so on. Part of the process is implicating everybody in the neighborhood in the killing, so it's more important to just do a necklacing or two than to pick the right victim.
It's messy. War generally is, whether it's mob war or the firebombing of Tokyo, where in our "good war" we necklaced somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 people without losing too much sleep. The British necklaced even more in Dresden and put up a statue to Bomber Harris, the man who directed the raid. Of course we did it from the air, and somehow nothing is really bad if you do it from high altitude, or so most people seem to think, even when your incendiary bombs set the pavement on fire and deep-fry civilians in the same black goo as a tire melting around some poor unlucky Zimbabwean's neck.
These Zulu mobs, ugly as they are, are fighting for sensible, serious reasons: jobs, wages, the chance to have a decent life. They're up against a refugee crisis a lot more serious than ours ever was. Here's the situation: out of South Africa's 50 million people, about five million, one tenth of the population, are recent immigrants. Most of them are from Zimbabwe, just north of SA. These immigrants aren't the bad guys here, but they are desperate, which means they'll work for next to nothing. That means that most employers in the poor neighborhoods where these Zulu rioters live will either hire cheaper Zimbabwean (or Mozambican) workers, or force local Zulus to work at the same pitiful wages the immigrants are willing to take. And with a 30% unemployment rate, the average Zulu trying to feed his or her family doesn't have a lot of bargaining power. So they've had to sit and watch as wages went down, jobs were lost to immigrants, and the hope they had after the "Rainbow Nation" hoopla all turned to dust. You'd riot too. In fact, Americans have a long tradition of riots like this. We've killed a lot of people, especially Chinese people, in pretty nasty ways, for bringing down wages -- and we're filthy rich compared to the Zulu.
A better question to ask would be, what sent so many Zimbabweans fleeing into South Africa, driving wages down and messing up the place? The official answer to that in the Western press is that it's all the fault of Robert Mugabe, the old ex-guerrilla who runs Zimbabwe. I don't buy it. Mugabe's an old fool, an egomaniac, yeah -- most of the men who rule countries are. Bu the damage to Zimbabwe was done a long time ago, and Mugabe's in trouble with the Western newspapers for trying to fix things. That's what blows me away: in all this coverage of Zimbabwe, nobody asks simple questions like, "Who owns the farmland, and why?" The situation's changing fast now, but keep in mind that just ten years ago, 4000 white farmers "owned" three-quarters of all the good land. That's less than one percent of the country's population controlling three-quarters of its useful farmland. That's why Zimbabwe's a mess. Imagine what this country would look like if there were 300 million Native Americans crowded into shantytowns, with a few thousand European settlers living on huge plantations. That's the population profile of Zimbabwe. Mugabe's been taking that land back, and whatever else he's done, he was in the right. He has the military power, and for all you Christians out there, he has every moral right too, as far as I can see.
After all, what right do those white settlers have to the land? Their great-grandfathers stole it at gunpoint, or got it by dirty tricks, a little over a century ago. Funny how nobody ever wants to talk about that. The man who took Zimbabwe for the Brits, Cecil Rhodes, was a classic Victorian closet case who distracted himself from his sinful urges with a bloodsoaked vision of British flags flying from Cape Town to the Mediterranean. Rhodes would use any sleazy trick to take the land he needed. When he couldn't force or trick King Lobengula, leader of the Matabele who ruled southern Zimbabwe, into selling off his land, he sent the king a British doctor who was under orders to turn the King into a morphine addict. Once the King was strung out, Rhodes grabbed the Matabeles' land. King Lobengula killed himself.
That's how a few whites ended up with three-quarters of the decent land. And this didn't happen in the long-ago far-away time. It was barely over a century ago (1884-1902). So when rightwing papers like the UK Telegraph scream about Mugabe's land grabs, I have to laugh.You can't rob a thief, and the Brits who grabbed Zimbabwe's farmland are nothing but thieves who've lost their power to hold onto what they stole. They're just getting their loot taken back by the people they stole it from, but if you listen to the BBC you'd think these farm seizures are the greatest crime in history. BBC crews have been out there for years, filming every "white-owned farm" that gets handed over to Mugabe's guerrilla veterans, showing long sobby close-ups of the dear old white guys' heartbroken livestock as if this was the real tragedy. They love to focus on the little dogs especially -- boo hoo, little doggy lost its home! Nobody ever mentions the sick stuff that happened to put that farm into British hands in the first place.
The Zulus who are necklacing a few poor Zimbabweans now lost out the same way, massacred by British armies using modern weapons in a series of wars a little over a century ago. Until they sent warriors armed with spears up against the redcoats' repeating rifles, they were one of the great empires of the world, moving south in their own wave of conquest. But like everyone who got in the Empire's way, they were slaughtered and forced off the good land by the same holier-than-thou white people who stole all the farmland in Zimbabwe. That's what we have here: two groups of Africans robbed and gutted by the Empire, forced to fight over scraps, while the descendants of the white land thieves still hold all the land and money.
And I'm supposed to blame the Zulu rioters here?
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Posted by: jpopphan@charter.net on Jun 6, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, am I really understanding that this author is giving the practice of "necklacing" a pass? There is nothing in the text as posted that explains what "necklacing" is, so I had to go to Wikipedia to find out.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing
"Necklacing refers to the practice of summary execution carried out by forcing a rubber tire, filled with gasoline, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire."
I don't care WHAT white people may have done to these Africans, but NOTHING can excuse this abhorrent and vile practice. What cruelty! What a horror! HOW DISGUSTING.
The colonialization of Africa by Europeans is NO EXCUSE for the actions of these Zulus or any other group to practice this BARBARIC form of execution. How anyone can condone it under any circumstances is beyond belief.
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: Julian
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: desidid
» Life is barbaric. Don't like it? Go back to watching TV.
Posted by: blogbooks
» You missed the point
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» Of course. Human nature dictates the need for an invisible "devil".
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: jpjmarti on Jun 7, 2008 12:25 AM
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Posted by: blogbooks on Jun 7, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Killing all the white people in Zimbabwe is absolutely justified because they are the descendants of evil white colonialists."
I think you've adjusted your tone properly for publication on this fine website.
Well done "War Nerd", well done.
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» You missed the whole point.
Posted by: jreal
» I'm simply commenting upon how he has been directed to change his tone by...
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» RE: I'm simply commenting upon how he has been directed to change his tone by...
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» Comment on the wrong way to atone for the past - Continued
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Posted by: jrr56 on Jun 7, 2008 2:25 AM
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1. Soon there will be more refugees (foreigners) than us and will kill us.
2. They come here to take our work and steal our wives.
3. The price of a pint of milk was 30c and is now 7 rands, it is the fault of the foreigners.
To blame necklacing on a young white farmer in Zimbabwe who bought his farm with the blessing of the Mugabe regime is abhorrent. Even to blame Rhodes is far fetched.
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» Mugabe is not there *legally* by democratic elections
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» 2/2 Mugabe is not there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» Mugabe is there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Mugabe is there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: HipPriest
» The food aid issue
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» RE: The food aid issue
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» RE: The food aid issue
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» RE: The food aid issue
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Posted by: SBK on Jun 7, 2008 2:28 AM
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» RE: Whose reality counts?
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Posted by: HipPriest on Jun 7, 2008 2:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although the colonialization of Africa can be used to explain some of the problems on the African continent, it certainly doesn't explain how Zimbabwe was turned from - if you can forgive the term - "the breadbasket of Africa" into the retrograde, economically crippled, tyranny with the lowest life expectancy in the world. This is a problem made by Mugabe largely in the last ten years, the country was not economically gutted after the Lancaster House Agreement.. And while we're at this point "Their great-grandfathers stole it at gunpoint, or got it by dirty tricks, a little over a century ago.". Do the crimes of ones descendents - and whilst we're following your relativistic logic, they probably didn't see it as a crime when they were doing it - give the police and the extrajudicial mobs the 'moral right' to abuse, attack and kill? I think not.
You make an incredibly weak point using historical parallels. There's a causal link between the actions of Bismarck and Hitler, but that hardly makes Biskmarck reponsible for the holocaust.
Lastly and most importantly, your article seems to presuppose that poor Africans are unable to think for themselves and show restraint. That they are solely and totally victims of their environment. Whilst we're drawing historical parallels, this is precisely the way that the colonialists thought when they first took the continent.
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» Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
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» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
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» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
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» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
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» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
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Posted by: spearchukker on Jun 7, 2008 3:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By examining a current problem and regressing its course of history, the blame for the problem could be laid at any person's feet. Tell me Gary, why did you not regress beyond the arrival of whites in southern africa and the reasons that many of these settlers were of Scottish and Irish nationality?
Gary, stupid articles like yours perpetuate the belief that Africa's problems are not remotely the fault of the black man or his policies, but that all problems are a hangover from white man's adventures in Africa.
By using your deeply flawed logic, one could also regress that white Zimbabweans are solely responsible for global warming.
May i please suggest that you travel to Africa and spend some time in the country with both black and white people from all classes before you make such outrageously stupid pseudo-academic comments again.
Thanks.
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» RE: idiculous logic.
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jun 7, 2008 4:15 AM
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Posted by: revrmaury on Jun 7, 2008 4:19 AM
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Posted by: xi_people on Jun 7, 2008 4:55 AM
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Unless any of you naysayers has spent a considerable amount of time in southern Africa and thus possess intimate knowledge of exactly what is happening there, I don't accept your downgrading of this article for its supposed "white bashing".
In general, Americans are the most insulated, politically immature people on the planet. There is an urgent need for more of them to grow up and understand that we live in a nuanced world, with many factors contributing to current conditions -- historical factors being among the most important.
I view this article as one perspective on the violence occurring in southern Africa. If anyone here wants to put together a cogent piece refuting the information presented, I'm quite sure that AlterNet would be glad to consider publishing it.
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» GET REAL!
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Posted by: gsmiley on Jun 7, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With redistribution on tribal and political lines and little or no food there aren't many options for most but to flee or join the 'war veterans.' Who would have thought Ian Smith's regime might ever be regarded with fond nostalgia. And in other states the British for all their self interest, perfidy and theft presided over an era of stability, protecting their labour pools from centuries old tribal bloodletting. Hardly surprising that friction amongst far larger populations should regress to the same old dynamics. "The fundamental things apply....
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» RE: The turns of history
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» RE: The turns of history
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Posted by: Last Chance on Jun 7, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyway, what kind of a wimped-out Red was Mugabe if he couldn't even give the land back to the people (even if horribly mismanaged by state bureacracies)? Weird! As it's turned out he has become a perfect example of the "cult of the individual", far more like Stalin than Castro, and a total liability to the people of that tortured land. So, who or what is keeping him in power? Where is his money coming from?
Meanwhile, their population keeps growing beyond the land's ability to feed them without destroying whatever is left of the natural environment, like the rest of our endangered planet. Poor Africa. If only the Europeans had the decency to leave it alone, what a great Continent of many independent peoples it might be today, or maybe just a lot of warring empires. We'll never know.
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» RE: A very strange situation.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: A very strange situation.
Posted by: Last Chance
» MUGABE A HERO RE: A very strange situation.
Posted by: CHOSEN WORLD OUR WAR ON ISLAM & OUR OWN FREEDOMS
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Posted by: jgrossnas on Jun 7, 2008 6:50 AM
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The fact of the matter is that Mugabe was once a great leader and a model for other nations in the area. Early on, he decided that despite their history and the uneven proportion of ownership, the white farmers were necessary to help keep the country's economy on track. In fact, Zimbabwe was able to export many goods to other countries in the region after Mugabe took over and had a thriving tourist industry too- Victoria Falls is simply a breath-taking sight to behold.
Unfortunately, Mugabe later became a despot who needed to cling to power at any cost. The so-called "war veterans" (many of whom were too young to have fought in the country's war of independence) were just knife-wielding mobs that Mugabe's party had armed to drive out the farmers and gain popularity among the general populace by 'giving the land back to the people.' In theory, that's a great idea but the fact of the matter was that these mobs didn't know anything about farming and these lands became dirt because the new owners didn't know how to cultivate it. The economy fell apart and Mugabe didn't have a plan to fix it- he only blamed 'foreign media' for stirring up trouble.
The author of this Alternet article obviously bought Mugabe's line and is now ready to blame the media for Zimbabwe's problems.
But ask a few questions about the state of the country and it becomes clear about who is destroying it. Who is shutting down any newspaper in the country that's critical of the govt? Who is still arming mobs to go after opposition parties? Who is jailing the leaders of the opposition parties without any explanation? Who is shutting down an election that seems to have given the opposition parties the edge in the govt? Who doesn't have any plan to fix the economic problems of the country?
The answer to all of those questions is Mugabe and his band of thugs. They're the only who have destroyed their own country to keep themselves in power and have shown that they're ruthless enough to stop at nothing to do so. Until they're out of office, Zimbabwe won't recover from these catastrophes that Mugabe has created.
One last point about Zimbabwe. Let's look at another hated leader whose disastrous policies have caused misery and doesn't seem to care about the consequences. Anyone want to defend George W. Bush?
As for South Africans, the millions of people who lived in the homelands had high hopes that the end of Apartheid would bring not just freedom but also economic justice for everyone. The problem was that the old system left the country so broken and lopsided that the ANC couldn't possibly fix it any time soon. As a result, crime is a huge problem there now and many people still live in squalid conditions and don't have jobs. That makes for a very volatile situation. Then when you have people coming in from other countries taking jobs, that's a recipe for anger and resentment.
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» The basic problem ignored
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» immigrants taking jobs
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» It's not the immigrants fault
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» Neither are the people whose income is being undercut by immigration from Latin America to blame.
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» RE: A very ignorant article
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» What version on *reality* do you deludedly live within?
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» RE: A very ignorant article
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Posted by: mia66 on Jun 7, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am personally far more concerned by the actions of the present American Empire but... If we are going to talk about it:
Zimbabwe/Rhodesia is not the only country to suffer at the hands of Cecil Rhodes & his family. I live in an ex-British colony town that has a couple of stately homes that he built, streets named after him & a statue. What he did personally & for the British Empire was extremely destructive. What is important now is how to right those wrongs in a manner acceptable to all.
Mr. Mugabe gave the impression that he would be the right person for the job back when he was originally voted in by the newly Zimbabwean population.
Unfortunately he did not take the path to reconciliation that New Zealand has taken.
New Zealand set up the Waitangi Tribunal to negotiate settlements and reparations with the local tribes, whereas Mr. Mugabe chose forceable evictions of the white farmers.
I am appalled that the author of this article could possibly condone necklacing as a valid form of protest by the South African population. Necklacing is not a form of performance art - it causes real suffering and death.
The Zimbabwean refugees are victims of Mr. Mugabe's shocking policies to keep himself in power - not some mythical white farmers. If the author had bothered to do some research, he would have found that these farmers were run off their land years ago and are not relevant to the current situation. The veterans have made no effort to run the farms that Mr. Mugabe so generously gave to them.
Zimbabwe has recently lost a lot their middle class educated black citizens because they can afford to leave - I know, because a lot of them have escaped to my country. The reasons for leaving that they give is that they no longer want to be a part of what is going on in their own country. They say that Mr. Mugabe lost his reason after his wife died & his new wife has encouraged him in his present endeavours.
Whether or not this is the case - Mr. Mugabe is determined to blame the British - and more recently the Commonwealth for the state of his country.
I have to accept that he must be psychotic & that Zimbabwe hasn't a hope of relief until he is dead.
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» Hysteria
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Posted by: johnshadows on Jun 7, 2008 7:33 AM
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Posted by: Becky on Jun 7, 2008 7:58 AM
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Posted by: rhstracey on Jun 7, 2008 8:16 AM
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Posted by: billwald on Jun 7, 2008 9:17 AM
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» Who teaches you kids this crap?
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: jhubbard on Jun 7, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people believe that the most dominate organism of any ecosystem are the one's who directly kill and consume or eliminate their prey or competitors!
But this is NOT so! The most dominate one's are the one's that use the most clever forms of deception, one's that do not kill their prey directly, but turn others into LIVING SACRIFICES to do the bidding of the SLAVE MASTER, or Parasitizor, alias Colonizer!
I am a grass roots farmer from Kansas. Africa is not the only place that colonization takes place, it does so right here in the land of the free! Big moneyed interests, or those who are part of the International Banking System, have found clever ways to turn some of the most valuable assets of the land of the free, USA, into their colonized possessions!
Those who produce food, people energy, of America as well as other countries, have been effectually turned into slaves to those who control the world's money flow!
The 13th amendment outlawed slave labor on paper, but those who are clever enough and rich enough, have found ways to subvert this amendment!
In colonization, the colonizer does not want to necessarily own the land, just the land owner or operator of the life supporting resources they personally need to survive!
To me, it is much more evil than those who openly seek to take what others have that might benefit them and their offspring directly!
Why? The colonizers come in as the colonized's friend! We are going to civilize you and help you when their goal all along is to legally rob them of what valuable resources they have while leaving them to have to cut each other's throats in order to survive! And of course, they can keep the Bibles, complements of the Colonizers or civilizers!
Colonization may seem less barbaric to some, but to me, it's long term costs, as (GARY so well pointed out in this article), the underlying monsters it ends up creating while shifting the blame from the colonizers to the uncivilized colonized, is much more evil and barbaric!
Many of those who wrote negative comments about this article, probably believe they are totally innocent of such crimes as are taking place in Zimbabwe, not believing how that Americans, making up less than 5% of world population, while using more than 25% of it's annual useable energy supply, including rich food diets, could possible have any connection to what is going on in a nation thousands of miles away!
Whenever one starts, looking closely, their are very few, if any, totally innocent!
Jerold Hubbard, Top Soil Miner alias Grass Roots Farmer
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» RE: Colonization is actually parasitation
Posted by: jrr56
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Posted by: johnclark on Jun 7, 2008 9:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course land reform is the major issue facing both South Africa & Zimbabwe. Those of us who "have been following the situation" knows how responsible "New Labor" was for contributing to the mess, but to make land reform succeed, it has to be fair to all parties. It also has to be structured so that production remains constant & the new owners are given the education they will need to make this happen.
South Africa's land reform is following this model. And, from everything I've heard from Tsvangirai, he will follow this model. I also have confidence that when Sen Obama becomes our president, that he will use his knowledge and skill to help Africa deal with the situation. The peace deal in Kenya, while not perfect, is an example of what Africans can achieve when the world community listens. In the case of Zimbabwe, the MDC must be allowed to take power. Mugabe should have accepted the offer to peacefully step down. Hopefully, his old self will tell him to do what is best for all Africa.
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» RE: The "African World War"
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: The "African World War"
Posted by: bingahaba
» Kenya
Posted by: johnclark
» RE: Kenya
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Kenya
Posted by: johnclark
» Kwani etc
Posted by: bingahaba
» MDC wants to privatise Zimbabwe
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 7, 2008 9:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is what I wrote way back a few years ago..
August 2002
Mr. Mugabe does not want the english economic refugees to enjoy disproportionate amount of luxury while the rest of population is simpoly grinding to survive-so what is wrong with that thinking? It is wrong when it involves english parasites. These people had moved from Zimbawe to england soon after Independence bit when they found that englasih people live in shoe box sized houses with inflated trumped up prices and have much lower standard of living then thses colonialists moved back to zimbawe. oon after second world war america had forced Japan to do so called land reform(in order to break the power of japanese upper classes) and that was called reform. In many other countries like India the land reform was done for the sake of justice and that was hailed. Mr. Mugabe waited too long to do that sort of land reform and hwen he belatedly decided to do tthat then the english parasites and spes from english govet, to BBc and english media started barkinglike jackels. After all it is their people who are being affected this time. The english media ahd already neatralized elson mandela and installed a western stooge in south africa and made a lot of propganda agasint winnei mandela-simply becasue winnie had people;s suppoert-this is not wanted by the english meddlers. The similar thing they want everywhere-mr. Mugabe does not oblige them now so he is villain. their jeolosy about elections in other parts of world does not extend to U.s. a. or england-in fact their the false election of bush thru fraud and goonery it was the englsih media only (including bbc) which was very anxious that court does not overrule Bush election becasue as they siad bush was good for allies(read england) . no procession , no supprt for oppsiotion -on the contrary all englsh media was angry with m. gore for having pinpointed irrregularity in U.S. a. elction. all becasue the third rate country like england can live in reflected glory of Usa power.
In fact for last 20 years and more so in last 15 years the english have shown their true clour-after cold war it is clear that the impotent english have been trying to piggy back pon american strength(americans in majority are not anglosaxons)and thru america england treis to bully other nations-install dictators their and then those dictators without peoples supprt are asked to bring the money to england and buy house in london-that creates housing boom and this nation of plumbers(graduation from pirates to shopkeepers then plumbers now) feels very happy with inflated house prices and low qulaity housing and infrastructrue-the money from abroad comes to london stock exchange and fuels the stock price. The london stock price should be forced to be lowered to one fourth of its present price becasue the rest is all false pumped up price with no real value. wht does england produce that any country would want? the real indutrial nations of the worls -Japan, germany have been in recesssion for last 10years while this england has been booming after gulf war for no reason other than becasue it falsley persuaded other countries and their dicataors to bring money to london and starve the rest of worrld. For God' sake the english plumber does not even eat healthy food.--atleast not non infected.
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» RE: real problem with zimbawe-outside interference by agents of occupiers.
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: klife on Jun 7, 2008 9:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!
No one is justifying murder. However, the murder, madness, and mayhem perpetrated on a massive scale, heretofore unknown to humankind, by Europeans, a short time ago, is having disastrous consequences, the world over, today.
And Friend, this is just the tip of the iceburg.
If we are serious about HEALING our wounded world, before it implodes, we MUST admit our unprecedented wrongs, and convene international councils, unaffected by white supremacy, and charge them with developing HONEST solutions. This will not be easy or cheap.
ZIMBABWE'S current problems (like it or not) do have thier roots in Mass Eurpopean Murder that many of us are trying to minimize, if not flat out justify.
So get real.
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» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: klife
» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: HipPriest
» Would MDC give black zimbabwean land to whites?
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Would MDC give black zimbabwean land to whites?
Posted by: HipPriest
» MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: brianct
» RE: MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: brianct
» RE: MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: PGR88 on Jun 7, 2008 9:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Same Old Same Old
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: MitPot on Jun 7, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are all crawling out of the woodworks from NewZealand, Australia, etc....
They had their greedy dirty fingers on our land. No more !!
The white settler economy was never ours, we the Africans.
So Mugabe destroys it.
Big deal !!
We Africans have been tilling the land while these Rhodies gorge themselves like there is no tomorrow. It had to end one day. No ?
Otherwise the future promises us many more Mugabes to come !! How else could be ? Aren't we human ?
These British settlers ought to be going back to their country.
Instead we have over 2 million of them move to South Africa ever since the coming of the Mandela client regime.
Why does the BBC not tell the world about these British foreigners coming in to take our jobs?
Hopefully, we Africans will get wiser.
Instead of lashing out at fellow Africans we have to set the (British)Standard Bank of South Africa on fire.
It is such institutions that bleed us for the comfort of their small NAZI queen !!
Our struggle is not over.
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» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: jrr56
» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: ciccio
» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: ciccio
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Posted by: Jbuuty on Jun 7, 2008 10:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Kenya many Whites fled the country, fearing the coming of the new African government, and much of the land was bought by Kenyans, so the land problem wasn't quite the same there. Though it has come back in different ways. In Zimbabwe the White farmers mostly stayed, they didn't want to sell and Britain didn't help to finance the buy outs as they promised. So the historical injustices of colonialism remained strong even well after independence.
You can also add in the north-south ethnic problems in Zimbabwe, and a president that became more and more dictatorial as the years passed and you have a real problem. South Africa has been a ticking time bomb. It is very similar to Zimbabwe - without the dictator.
In addition, the author was NOT justifying the act of necklacing, but using a rhetorical device to explain the much deeper causes of the recent violence. Western media generally blames Mugabe with all the problems in Zimbabwe, and they don't like Mbeki much either.
I wonder how many of those appalled by the article would react if they were in the same hopeless situations and robbed of all dignity. I doubt they would behave much differently.
I'm also amazed for the nth time of the amount of simply bad responses to any article dealing with race issues. Is the Left really that racist? Are most posters really Trolls? What is going on?
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» Your are right
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: branbello on Jun 7, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Genius
Posted by: Last Chance
» Suppurating pustule of ignorance on the *realities* of population. . .
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: bingahaba on Jun 7, 2008 10:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» PLS delete
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: opmoc on Jun 7, 2008 11:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "White British" in Africa and Asia did not commit mass genocide.
The "White British" might have occupied about half the planet - even more succesful than the Romans - but like the Romans we also did a lot of good - and organised the building of roads and schools and grew lots of food for people to eat.
What are you suggesting - that all whites born in Africa and Asia come back to Europe?
That would mean we would also have to absorb you Bloody Americans
And Britain today is a completely multi-racial society and most of the time we all get on fine.
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» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: bingahaba
» Grow Up, son
Posted by: klife
» RE: white british are the parasite race which msut be tackled soon.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: surferboy2001
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» would like this necklacing for atleast two persons.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: klife on Jun 7, 2008 11:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The premise many white supremacict seem to miss is that today's curretn crisis cannot be viewed, understood, or rectified in a vacuum.
For Western (white) reporters to ignore the deep historical connections to the original SIN of mass maniacal Murder, mayhem, madness and colonization, when reporting, is to continue the racist policies that led to today's problems.
We should be beyond that. Just tell the truth, (we all know it anyway)and let's work together to rectify the very real, DEEP-ROOTED problems.
This should not be that hard for you to understand.
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Posted by: redgreenbrown on Jun 7, 2008 1:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was not only Zimbabweans that were targeted - it was Somalis, Congolese, Mozambicans, Malawians as well as many other nationals that have come here as refugees from various instabilities in the continent. And these instabilities, while partially caused by colonial history, are not about land redistribution in Zimbabwe.
In Cape Town where I live there are very few Zulu people, most of the people here are from the Xhosa nation, the nation of Nelson Mandela. Attacks on 'foreigners', referred to as kwerikweris have long been a problem, particularly on Somalis, but also on Malawians and Congolese, of which there are large communities here.
I suggest the writer leave investigation of what goes on in Africa to Africans and stick to his own balliwick. This article is biased, ignorant and based on several false premises. There are snippets of truth in amongst it such as the skewed land holdings in Zimbabwe, but similar situations remain in Namibia and South Africa yet these have not even been mentioned? This is poor journalism and is simply a trashy article not worthy of Alternet - or any other - pubication.
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Posted by: redgreenbrown on Jun 7, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets also ask the number one question journalists should always ask: Who stands to gain most from this anti-foreigner sentiment sweeping South Africa. Winnie Mandela suggested Morgan Tsvangarai, as it would help to return some of teh more than 3 million Zimbabweans here home to vote for him.
I dont believe it is that complicated. From what i have heard, and my ears are close to the ground, is that these attacks were by poor locals who simply wanted stuff. My views have been backed up by most serious media.
Something or somebody may be behind this but it was definitely not as it was painted by this very poorly researched article.
The problems of colonialism are not going to be cured by attacking each other, they will be overcome through standing together and making a better nation, region and African future for us all, no matter where we come from in Africa.
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Posted by: vh2q on Jun 7, 2008 2:12 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The black Zimbabweans that have migrated South to SA did so to escape political persecution or even genocide by Mugabe's fifth brigade, and to find work which is NOT AVAILABLE in Zimbabwe and food which is VERY HARD TO GET in Zimbabwe. Note Zimbabwe has been 'free' of white control since 1980 and free of 'colonial' control since the 60s. It is now 2008. Is it possible that ANY of the problems in that country are due to the policies of ZANU PF led by Robert Mugabe, who has run the show since 1980, ie for 28 years? Or is it all the fault of some hard-working farmers who happen to be white?
The white farmers lost their "Stranglehold" on land in Zim in 2000-2002. In the process, 100-200 black employees and their families were THROWN OFF each these farms by the new occupants. Many of these farmworkers had no option but to seek work in RSA. Many of the new farm owners are not farmers but politicians and high ranking military/police. The vast majority of these formerly productive farms now produce very little, and if there is any production, it is consumed on the land by the new residents, who for the most part are living in mud huts.
The author fails to explain why the Mozambican, and even Nigerian immigrants are flooding in to RSA. I don't think there are more than 20 white farmers in either country. So it can't be them!
The meta-question here is whether it's fundamentally wrong for a small percentage of people with white skins to have a "stranglehold" on farms, in SA, USA, or Zimbabwe. When you eat a slice of bread made from wheat grown by a farmer, does it matter what color the farmer's skin is? Does it matter who first set foot on the undeveloped bush that later became a farm? Which would you prefer, a piece of bread affordably priced made from wheat grown by a farmer of the WRONG skin color, or no bread at all? That's the choice in Zim.
I would like to point out that in Zim or RSA or most African countries, it perfectly legal for anyone to purchase land. But what tends to happen is the land ends up in the stewardship of those best qualified to manage it. Hence, throughout the world, a small number of people who have the capital and skills to farm, end up owning the farm land. In Southern Africa, some of them are black, but for whatever reasons, a disproportionate number of them are white.
Finally, you may wonder why it is that South Africa, which is run by the ANC, is still able to provide employment and food? The answer is simple; the ANC is going down the same path in SA as ZANU in Zim, but they are just ten years behind. The same problems are starting to surface in RSA now, and that's why we have the South African blacks starting to repel the immigrant blacks. There is a new bill tabled in SA that gives the Minister the right to confiscate land without full compensation. This comes on the heels of the Land Claims process, which has expired.
One wonders where the unemployed hungry masses will go when there is no economy in RSA, just as there is none in Zimbabwe today.
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» RE: xcuse me, a dose of reality please
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: GLOWE on Jun 7, 2008 2:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Real Injustice
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: Hans B on Jun 7, 2008 3:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JayHaden on Jun 7, 2008 4:04 PM
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Posted by: Wynford Jane on Jun 7, 2008 5:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please be informed that 'Zulus' form one subculture - out of eleven other subcultural tribes in SA - such as the Tswanas, Vendas, Xhosas, Shotos, etc. etc. ALL OF THESE 'tribes' participated in the xenophobic attacks - not only Zulus. As of record - the greater part of the disturbance happened around Johannesburg - and the Zulus live more than 400 kilimetres away in Kwa Zulu Natal!!! (near Durban).
Your information about 'white' farmers being the essence of all of this - is VERY VERY FAR FETCHED! One can ask the question - WHEN last did the wrtter visit SA or Zimbabwe?
Rodes did what he did a hundred and fifty years or so ago - as the writer indicates 'liked the land' more than the 'niggers'. (Black people has never been referred to as 'Niggers'in SA or Zim - it is an Americanism, and Rhodes certainly never referred to them as 'Niggers' either.)
Please look at the present today situation and don't try to factor Rhodes into the equation. There are people right here and now - sleeping out in the freezing rain and winds of up to 65kl an hour - in flimsy tents - with only the clothes on their backs that they were wearing when they escaped. It is winter - they have nothing.
dESPITE THIS most of these foreigners are well educated and skilled - and yes pleasant and well natured.
One can ask the question - have some Americans become so calloused in the face of non-American's suffering - that prompted an article - written matter-of-facttly - as if these people are not 'real' - but just part of a computer game or something....
Write something about the so called American Indians - and see what theories you can muster around 'land-grabbing'??? Or was that okay - the same okayness - as what is happening in Iraq.....
Today there are virtually NO white farmers left in Zimbabwe. The population at large also have no food - and aid workers distributed food to the masses - untill yesterday - as Mugabe decided that his people should rather starve.
I am just wondering why you actually wrote this article.... What is the point of such ill infomed statements?? What are you actually saying?
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Jun 7, 2008 5:27 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this not how you treat children? And yet this condescending and arrogant view is prevalent on the left.
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» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left. Continued
Posted by: bingahaba
» Another thing
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left. Continued
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: CHOSEN WORLD OUR WAR ON ISLAM & OUR OWN FREEDOMS on Jun 7, 2008 6:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One poster responded by stating: -
"I don't care WHAT white people may have done to these Africans, but NOTHING can excuse this abhorrent and vile practice. What cruelty! What a horror! HOW DISGUSTING."
This self forgiving view of what Whites did to Africans while stealing their lands provides the context for the West's campaign against Mugabe - 'we stole the land fair and square from those Black bastards.'
Until Blacks recover their own stolen lands they will remain economic slaves to the White land thieves.
Mugable will be remembered in African history as a remarkable man of iron will and a champion of African liberation. My "THE BLACK BUG - The genetic bomb", views Mugabe in this light.
My "CHOSEN WORLD - Our war on Islam and our own freedoms", discusses the near future for an Africa dominated by another round of genetically engineered diseases and how Black Africa can finally be free.
Anyway, good article.
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» RE: THE BLACK BUG AND CHOSEN WORLD - IN CONTEXT
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: THE BLACK BUG AND CHOSEN WORLD - IN CONTEXT
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: pangolin on Jun 7, 2008 10:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tough shit; send the bill to our dead, white, grandfathers. It can sit there with my complaints about environmental degradation and the lack of Moa. Fix the problems in front of you; the past is not changeable.
Africa for africans. (one 'a') You got it. Please note that all problems are now yours and yours alone. When we get all our problems sorted out here in the North we'll give you a call. Don't wait up. We might be so kind to allow you access to our internet with it's unprecedented access to information.
IMHO, Zimbabwe is a mess precisely because Mugabe attempted to emulate Europe instead of creating a custom, home-grown solution to his problems. Right up there at the top of the list was using a floating currency rather than some sort of commodity based currency. When you have to print bills denominated in millions it's time to throw the whole mess out. Next was emulating the habits of Northern leaders who know nothing about how the potato hits the plate. Using Ronald Reagan or Joseph Stalin instead of Jimmy Carter as a leadership model was bound to backfire.
Malthus is STILL right and doubly so in Africa. It doesn't matter if every African is born with innate knowlege of organic, biodynamic, biochar and permaculture farming methods if the population doubles every 30 years. You will still starve. Do the math. Do the math. Do the math.
Africa does not get it's own physics. Right now it has to import dietary calories. Ask Cuba how well that plan works in the long run.
Good luck with that.
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Posted by: HighburyJD on Jun 8, 2008 2:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 8, 2008 5:09 AM
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Posted by: robinoche on Jun 8, 2008 5:52 AM
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» RE: Has the author interviewed no South Africans or Zimbabweans?
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: dr421 on Jun 8, 2008 6:00 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Petrus on Jun 8, 2008 7:21 AM
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Posted by: arclight7 on Jun 8, 2008 7:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Blame Whitie!
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Blame Whitie!
Posted by: BCcovers
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Posted by: jared_james on Jun 8, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
please comment on what has been happening in southern africa post-1994. can whites still be wholey to blame for regions ills. and if so it must be due to complicity by the ruling black class in south africa. no one is kidding themselves by thinking that white hands and money are totally clean in zimbabwe, but we need to broaden our view of the ruling class to include the new african elite (who less than 20 years ago were full of the ideas and ideals Alternet seems to expound).
this article is at best overly simplistic and at worst incendiary mindless drivel. in future please have columnists familiar with recent southern african politics and empathetic to the plight of people there comment on unfolding events.
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Posted by: jbloggz on Jun 8, 2008 12:39 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I lived in Bulawayo, Rhodesia for a year in the late 60s. Ian Smith had declared UDI and there were sanctions against the country. True the white farmers had the best land, however they used their knowle3dge and technology to farm the land in a proper way. Thus over many years of colonial rule their farms had developed. Huge maize yields were produced and maize is the Africans staple diet. Also enormous cattle ranches were developed and such is the quality of the land it needed vast acreage to do this. Then there was the tobacco industry of which Rhodesia was a world leader and supplier. Okay the land that was used by those rich white farmers provided work, schools, resources and indeed medical services. It was in the interest of the farmers to do this despite the fact that the lands were mechanized. Had those lands not been developed by these hardy white farmers it would today still be only providing farming at a subsistence level.
When the terrorist war started, the Rhodesian army was predominantly white and despite their smaller numbers they contained the threat for years against the likes of Mugabes forces. The whites despite sanctions etc managed the country well. They had carried our major engineering projects such as the Kariba dam which still today provides power and fish food to the nation, it is still the largest man made lake in Africa. The white population at it's peak was around 250000 and considering the size of this they did some quite amazing work. The African hospital in Harare which was then an African township was one of the most modern in Southern Africa. All built with white expertise.
To blame the colonials the likes of Cecil Rhodes for the present actions of necklacing is somewhat bizarre to say the least.
Recently the Prime minister of Poland a man short in stature and brain remarked as he tried to get more delegates in the EU. That Poland would've had a bigger population had the Germans not killed so many of his countrymen during the last war. Rather a ridiculous statement but perhaps not so disimilar to what this article writer is saying.
I spent the next six years in Malawi a country north of of Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and this was ruled by an African dictator. He did little or nothing to help his population. Probably the likes of people such as me did a good deal more. And yes we made money too. When the new tobacco industry was developed it was solely owned by the President of course. And who did he use to develop the bush into viable farms? Yes those young white farmers from Rhodesia.
I could say a great deal more except to say that I finished off 12 years with 6 in South Africa and I experienced the aparthied regime and the riots in Soweto and other townships. True the country was developed to satisfy the white population but again work was provided by the whites for the local Africans. Since South Africa has changed the gulf between rich and poor is even worse and this time the exploitation is black on black. If the RSA government leaders are more concerned about their own lifestyles and that of their family and friends small wonder many black south africans have been losers. To blame Cecil Rhodes for this is ludicrous. The population is increasing at a higher level than can be properly supported. Look at the recent horrors of the intercene fighting in Kenya where the population is very well educated.
No better to look at the root cause. The Zulus were always going to be the losers as they have had no real political power in the ANC. If they're fighting it's most likely due to frustrations they face as second class citizens in RSA. The RSA government must take full blame for what is happening, they won't,they're weak. And Mugabe is fully rsponsible for the disaster in Zimbabwe.
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» Of Africans, blacks, Zimbabweans, and terrorism
Posted by: bingahaba
» Of Zulus as losers
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Another inconvenient truth
Posted by: jbloggz
» projection?
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 8, 2008 7:21 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Richard C. Cook
5-28-8
The following is based on a talk given by the author at the "End of Empire" session of the "Building a New World" Conference of the Prout World Assembly at Radford University, Radford, Virginia, on May 22, 2008.
quote---
"
Hamilton and Jefferson split, and that split has defined U.S. politics ever since. Hamilton became the de facto head of the Federalist Party, the ancestor first of the Whigs and then of the Republicans. Jefferson called himself a Republican at first, then a Democratic-Republican, then finally his party became the Democratic Party that has lasted until today. Of course we know that the two parties have come more and more to resemble each other in recent decades in supporting policies of imperialism.
Jefferson was elected president in what was called the Civic Revolution of 1800. The first thing he did was cut military spending. He did what no one has done since, which was to balance the federal budget for eight consecutive years. Then he took an action which defined our nation to a considerable extent all the way into the 20th century. In 1803 he doubled the size of the nation overnight through the Louisiana Purchase.
So for the next century, instead of competing with the European nations for overseas colonies, our energies were devoted to settling the North American continent, to the detriment, of course, of the Native American peoples. We became, as did Russia in Eurasia and Brazil in South America, a continental land power. And we stayed that way for over a century.
But empire finally caught up with us. Across the sea in South Africa a man named Cecil Rhodes was devising a plan to make the British Empire the ruler of the globe. He created a secret society to accomplish this, called the Round Table, using money provided by the Rothschild family, who had controlled the British economy since the Napoleonic wars.
The U.S. was integral to their plans. Following is the relevant passage from Cecil Rhodes' will of 1877. His aims, he wrote in the will, were:
The extension of British rule throughout the world, the perfecting of a system of emigration from the United Kingdom and of colonization by British subjects of all lands wherein the means of livelihood are attainable by energy, labour, and enterprise,the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of a British Empire, the consolidation of the whole Empire, the inauguration of a system of Colonial Representation in the Imperial Parliament which may to tend to weld together the disjointed members of the Empire, and finally the production of so great a power as to hereafter render wars impossible and promote the best interests of humanity.
Think about that: "the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of the British Empire." In fact, as Professor Carroll Quigley made clear in his celebrated book, The Anglo-American Establishment, the British planners, whose descendants still rule that nation, acknowledged that a time would come when the U.S. would be the senior partner in the empire, which is exactly what happened over the century that lay ahead.
The Russian writer P.D. Ouspensky said all the history you read about in the history books is "the history of crime." This is what he was talking about.
The takeover of America was accomplished when the British, European, and American bankers created the Federal Reserve System in 1913. That year our nation was hijacked. Congressman Charles Lindbergh, father of the future aviator, called it "the legislative crime of the ages."
The Federal Reserve is a privately-owned central banking system modeled on the Bank of England. >From that day onward we got all the accoutrements of empire
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» RE: how the british parasties have used america.-let alone africa.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: how the british parasties have used america.-let alone africa.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: how the british parasties have used america.-not only Africa.
Posted by: avatar_singh
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Posted by: moflard on Jun 9, 2008 2:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which apparently is BAD
"... they were one of the great empires of the world, moving south in their own wave of conquest."
Which apparently was GOOD. Y'see you're only allowed to be a git if you're NOT white.
"But like everyone who got in the Empire's way, they were slaughtered and forced off the good land by the same holier-than-thou white people who stole all the farmland in Zimbabwe."
And I wonder why the !Kung amongst others are now living on marginal (at best) land. Ooh could it be the influx of Bantu speaking peoples? And what about the various Bantu speaking people that the Zulu's conquered, what happened to them - or the massacre at Weenen (commited by the Zulu during celebrations of a treaty with the Dutch colonists)? Ah, but they weren't white so they're allowed (even encouraged it seems) to murder and rape and pillage, and it's all good because their empires were "nice" murdering conquering rapacious states.
This is BY FAR the worst article I've ever read on Alternet - are you running out of decent authors? All that needs adding is that the British monarchy's really a bunch of disguised Lizard-Men and founded the Boy Scouts as a front for the Bavarian Illuminati.
It's this type of "white guilt" condescension that gives Liberals a bad name. Honestly I wonder if this article isn't as right-wing spoof it's so bad.
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» RE: Double standards is the "Liberal" way
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» RE: Double standards is the "Liberal" way
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Posted by: SAfrican on Jun 9, 2008 5:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The facts are simple: when Robert Mugabe took over Zimbabwe, he inherited a country described as the 'breadbasket of Africa'. Today it is an agricultural desolation, created first and foremost through the policies of land redistribution of Mugabe. There are no more white farmers in Zimbabwe worth mentioning. Brecher makes a cardinal mistake in assuming that Zimbabwe's land is STILL currently occupied by them. The wasteland in Zimbabwe today is directly attributable to these policies. This is quite apart from questions of whether the land should or should not have been redistributed, and whether the white farmers deserved what they got, which are other issues entirely.
The flood of Zimbabwean refugees into South Africa is purely a result of Mugabe's domestic brutality and incompetence. It has nothing to white farmers.
Brecher's analysis of the nature of of the violence here is more or less correct, except for that it is directed at more than just Zimbabweans. Somalis, Mozambicans, even Pakistanis have suffered. And it is by more than just Zulus. Xhosa and others have also taken part. There is also strong participation by pure criminal elements that have taken advantage of the chaos to loot and plunder.
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» Sad that you did not do your Homework
Posted by: brianct
» The oversimplification that IS the Liberal Mindset
Posted by: moflard
» ZANU supporters murdered: Will this story be on the BBC?
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Posted by: brianct on Jun 9, 2008 4:07 PM
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Zimbabwe news
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Posted by: brianct on Jun 9, 2008 4:16 PM
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'Castro “confident of Zimbabwe’s victory”
“Castro, who met with President Mugabe for three consecutive days during the visit, said Zimbabwe would triumph in its quest to equally redistribute land, saluting Zimbabweans for their heroic efforts to control their resources.
“He added that the country would overcome the present problems despite pressure by some powerful Western countries.
“’There is no country weak enough to be crushed. That is why I am confident in Zimbabwe’s victory despite the obstacles’, said President Castro, whose country has for 43 years resisted a United States-led isolation.
African support
“African ambassadors accredited to Cuba met President Mugabe and reiterated their countries’ support for Zimbabwe in its fight against imperialist forces.
“Cuba has helped Zimbabwe since the days of the liberation struggle.
etc
Castro supports president Mugabe
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Posted by: philipcfromnyc on Jun 13, 2008 7:53 AM
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In the interests of full disclosure – I was born and raised in South Africa at the height of the apartheid era. As a white South African, I was "entitled" to a privileged life in a country of riches beyond imagination. However, I was appalled by apartheid and by the status quo; as soon as I completed my degree and had saved sufficient funds to jump-start a new life in another country, I fled to the US. I left South Africa at the age of 22, and settled in the US, to return to South Africa only for occasional vacations.
I firmly believe in the following assertion, and will leave it to other readers of AlterNet to comment on its validity:
Pointing out a fact is not, in and of itself, racist. How a person chooses to interpret that fact – how a person places that fact in an explanatory context, or how a person alludes to events pertaining to that fact, on the other hand, can indicate whether the person concerned is racist or neutral, ignorant or wise, obdurate or quick-thinking. In short, merely observing a fact cannot indicate racism on the part of the observer; it takes insight into the paradigm adopted by the observer to determine whether or not he or she is racist.
Here are some facts:
Brecher is flat-out wrong when he asserts that most victims of necklacing are already dead when they are set on fire. To the contrary; most victims of necklacing have their arms bound together by barbed wire, and frequently have their hands chopped off immediately before being set on fire. Those victims whose hands are not chopped off are frequently forced to light their own necklaces. It is not the fire itself that kills the victim; in most cases, the mixture of burning rubber and petrol releases choking, poisonous fumes that sear the insides of the victim’s lungs like rice paper. Death is agonizing and far from quick, many victims struggle for several minutes as the burning rubber literally melts into the flesh of the victim’s arms and chest.
Winnie Mandela famously endorsed necklacing in a speech delivered on 13 April 1985 in Munsieville (a township near Krugersdorp in Gauteng Province). She never retracted this endorsement (“With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country.”)
When Rhodesia was handed over to Robert Mugabe some 30 years ago, it was popularly termed the “breadbasket of Southern Africa.” It had a rich and vibrant economy, and Mugabe was seen as a true leader who would carry the nation forward under a reign of prosperity and plenty.
Zimbabwe is now utterly prostrated. It is difficult to buy bread and milk anywhere in the country. Inflation hit 165,000% on 16 April 2008. Very few of the farms are functional; those that do still function are almost all still white-owned. When the Zimbabwe constitution was ratified, it included a clause similar to the “takings” clause embedded in the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, prohibiting the taking of farms without just compensation. Mugabe eliminated this Clause, and the white farmers have almost all been dispossessed. It is certainly true that many of these farms were owned by white people whose ancestors robbed the native population at gunpoint – but how does this bear on the legality or morality of seizing the land several generations later?
CONTINUED...
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Posted by: philipcfromnyc on Jun 13, 2008 7:54 AM
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South Africa is now plagued by power cuts on a daily basis. Shopping centers are plunged into darkness for two or three hours every day. South Africa’s wealth lies largely in its mines (the land is rich in platinum, gold, and other precious metals and vital commodities). The platinum mines have been closed down, at least for the time being, because the power company cannot guarantee that power will be available to pull the men from the ground on a reliable basis (of course there is backup power, but such power is intended for emergency usage only, and cannot be relied on to power the day-to-day operation of the mines). When the “rolling blackouts” hit, elevators get trapped between floors for hours on end; freezers and refrigerators stop working, ruining perishable foods; traffic jams cause traffic backups at intersections controlled by traffic lights stretching for miles in every direction; bank credit and debit card verification machines are rendered useless, thereby damaging tourism (a massive source of revenue for the country); hospitals have to cancel and reschedule elective surgeries…
I graduated from the University of the Witwatersrand (“Wits”) in 1985; at that time, Wits was the largest English-medium University in the country, and degrees issued by Wits were accredited in the US. When I last went to South Africa on vacation, I visited my alma mater. Rubbish was strewn everywhere; the once-beautiful lawns, where students would sit and chat in the summer heat, were unkempt, untended, and choked with weeds; the steps leading to the Great Hall had degenerated and decayed; graffiti was sprayed everywhere.
It is not an exaggeration to state that almost all of the current administration’s key figures are under investigation for embezzlement, fraud, corruption, and plundering the public fisc. It is a fact that several prominent Ministers are under investigation for the theft of untold millions of rand (the official currency of South Africa). An historical example is that of Allan Boesak; this anti-apartheid activist was found guilty of fraud in March 1999 (he embezzled R250,000.00 from a Danish investment group, the Coca Cola foundation, and singer Paul Simon) and served just over one year of his three year sentence. He was hoisted onto the shoulders of his jailers and proclaimed a hero, even as he was led into prison. In January 2005, his criminal record was expunged and he received a full presidential pardon.
CONTINUED...
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Posted by: philipcfromnyc on Jun 13, 2008 7:55 AM
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I see cultural chauvinism that makes it impossible for the black leadership to acknowledge that anything good can come from “Western” medicine. I see gross incompetence at every level of government. I see willful theft of monies that were intended to serve the poor. I see levels of incompetence that have brought the electrical supply grid to its knees.
Let me be very clear about one thing. I consider apartheid to have been a monstrous injustice; an insult not just to those who suffered under its yoke, but an insult to humanity itself. I see it as a manifestation of evil that cannot, ever, be excused or mitigated by invoking that tired old doctrine of “the end justifies the means” (a doctrine observed by many people I know).
What is the cause of all this? How much can be explained by referring to apartheid (which has been dead for 15 years)? How much of this is due to the lack of education provided to members of the ruling power under the apartheid regime?
How much is due to something else entirely? And if it is due to something else entirely, what are we dealing with?
PHILIP
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Posted by: OldDogCleve on Jun 13, 2008 9:38 AM
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But aside from that, of course he is right about some of his assertions about necklacing. For example, if white farmers were still producing food, especially maize, tens of thousands of hungry Zimbabweans would not be struggling to enter and live in South Africa, where the farms are still harvesting bumper crops. The fact that the farmers are white is best left to be resolved another day. My people must have food.
Another example of where Professor Brecher is quite right concerns necklacing. We did not practice it for most of my 50 years of involvement. It only started to occur in the 80s when some of the youngsters grew impatient and began to isolate comrades they suspected of weakness. As he points out, it is a truly awful way to kill an enemy and yes, he is right to blame whites. After all, who invented petrol, tyres, and matches? Certainly not blacks. As is well recorded, Mrs. Mandela was the champion of the necklace (“With our boxes of matches and our necklaces, we shall liberate this country!”). Necklacing does not occur often in Zimbabwe because petrol and matches are scarce. Besides, Comrade Mugabe is a modest man, an intellectual who would not allow his admirers and supporters to resort to such crude measures. It is not only crude, it is unsubtle and the leader has used many alternative approaches to deter people from straying from the right path. His subtlety and modesty is illustrated in his lifestyle. He lives in a modest but appropriate palace. His transport is a perfectly ordinary Mercedes Benz 600 with the required armament for the protection of a Head of State. He is sensitive to diplomatic niceties, and only uses his Rolls Royce on special occasions.
We finally wrested power from the whites in 1994 and there have been very few necklacings since then. Zimbabweans took control of their country more than 30 years ago and have had just a few necklacings in that time. It must be stamped out everywhere in Africa, as I am sure Professor Brecher will agree. As he points out, it was only due to having firearms that the British subdued the Zulus 140 years ago. But the spear remains a potent weapon, as do the knife, the panga and the knobkerrie. If we have scores to settle, we are guided by our ancestors. We honour them by again employing their weapons, instead of the crude and uncivilized so-called necklaces.
OldDogCleve
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Posted by: Paseña on Jun 14, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There may be some educational value in this piece in reminding us that the hard, and un-informed, left can still be just as awful as the equally uninformed far right. But another one like this and I will have to reconsider my financial support for Alternet.
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Posted by: jpopphan@charter.net on Jun 6, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, am I really understanding that this author is giving the practice of "necklacing" a pass? There is nothing in the text as posted that explains what "necklacing" is, so I had to go to Wikipedia to find out.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing
"Necklacing refers to the practice of summary execution carried out by forcing a rubber tire, filled with gasoline, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire."
I don't care WHAT white people may have done to these Africans, but NOTHING can excuse this abhorrent and vile practice. What cruelty! What a horror! HOW DISGUSTING.
The colonialization of Africa by Europeans is NO EXCUSE for the actions of these Zulus or any other group to practice this BARBARIC form of execution. How anyone can condone it under any circumstances is beyond belief.
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» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: Julian
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Wait just a minute.....
Posted by: desidid
» Life is barbaric. Don't like it? Go back to watching TV.
Posted by: blogbooks
» You missed the point
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» Of course. Human nature dictates the need for an invisible "devil".
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: jpjmarti on Jun 7, 2008 12:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: blogbooks on Jun 7, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Killing all the white people in Zimbabwe is absolutely justified because they are the descendants of evil white colonialists."
I think you've adjusted your tone properly for publication on this fine website.
Well done "War Nerd", well done.
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» You missed the whole point.
Posted by: jreal
» I'm simply commenting upon how he has been directed to change his tone by...
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: I'm simply commenting upon how he has been directed to change his tone by...
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» Comment on the wrong way to atone for the past - Continued
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
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Posted by: jrr56 on Jun 7, 2008 2:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Soon there will be more refugees (foreigners) than us and will kill us.
2. They come here to take our work and steal our wives.
3. The price of a pint of milk was 30c and is now 7 rands, it is the fault of the foreigners.
To blame necklacing on a young white farmer in Zimbabwe who bought his farm with the blessing of the Mugabe regime is abhorrent. Even to blame Rhodes is far fetched.
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» RE: jrr56
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» RE: jrr56
Posted by: jrr56
» RE: jrr56
Posted by: brianct
» Mugabe is not there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» 2/2 Mugabe is not there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» Mugabe is there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Mugabe is there *legally* by democratic elections
Posted by: HipPriest
» The food aid issue
Posted by: brianct
» RE: The food aid issue
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: The food aid issue
Posted by: brianct
» RE: The food aid issue
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: SBK on Jun 7, 2008 2:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: APL
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: APL
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: APL
» RE: Whose reality counts?
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» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: APL
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: jrr56
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: Whistler
» RE: Whose reality counts? US VISIONS FROM TIN-POT Bush?
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Whose reality counts?
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: HipPriest on Jun 7, 2008 2:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although the colonialization of Africa can be used to explain some of the problems on the African continent, it certainly doesn't explain how Zimbabwe was turned from - if you can forgive the term - "the breadbasket of Africa" into the retrograde, economically crippled, tyranny with the lowest life expectancy in the world. This is a problem made by Mugabe largely in the last ten years, the country was not economically gutted after the Lancaster House Agreement.. And while we're at this point "Their great-grandfathers stole it at gunpoint, or got it by dirty tricks, a little over a century ago.". Do the crimes of ones descendents - and whilst we're following your relativistic logic, they probably didn't see it as a crime when they were doing it - give the police and the extrajudicial mobs the 'moral right' to abuse, attack and kill? I think not.
You make an incredibly weak point using historical parallels. There's a causal link between the actions of Bismarck and Hitler, but that hardly makes Biskmarck reponsible for the holocaust.
Lastly and most importantly, your article seems to presuppose that poor Africans are unable to think for themselves and show restraint. That they are solely and totally victims of their environment. Whilst we're drawing historical parallels, this is precisely the way that the colonialists thought when they first took the continent.
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» RE: Laughably Poor
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» RE: Laughably Poor
Posted by: HipPriest
» Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Castro supports Mugabe and Zimbabwe
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: spearchukker on Jun 7, 2008 3:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By examining a current problem and regressing its course of history, the blame for the problem could be laid at any person's feet. Tell me Gary, why did you not regress beyond the arrival of whites in southern africa and the reasons that many of these settlers were of Scottish and Irish nationality?
Gary, stupid articles like yours perpetuate the belief that Africa's problems are not remotely the fault of the black man or his policies, but that all problems are a hangover from white man's adventures in Africa.
By using your deeply flawed logic, one could also regress that white Zimbabweans are solely responsible for global warming.
May i please suggest that you travel to Africa and spend some time in the country with both black and white people from all classes before you make such outrageously stupid pseudo-academic comments again.
Thanks.
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» RE: idiculous logic.
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jun 7, 2008 4:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: revrmaury on Jun 7, 2008 4:19 AM
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Posted by: xi_people on Jun 7, 2008 4:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless any of you naysayers has spent a considerable amount of time in southern Africa and thus possess intimate knowledge of exactly what is happening there, I don't accept your downgrading of this article for its supposed "white bashing".
In general, Americans are the most insulated, politically immature people on the planet. There is an urgent need for more of them to grow up and understand that we live in a nuanced world, with many factors contributing to current conditions -- historical factors being among the most important.
I view this article as one perspective on the violence occurring in southern Africa. If anyone here wants to put together a cogent piece refuting the information presented, I'm quite sure that AlterNet would be glad to consider publishing it.
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» RE: Touched a nerve, I see...
Posted by: HipPriest
» GET REAL!
Posted by: klife
» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: Rod from Canada
» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Touched a nerve, you say?
Posted by: Stoney 12+1
» RE: Touched a nerve, you say?
Posted by: surferboy2001
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Posted by: gsmiley on Jun 7, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With redistribution on tribal and political lines and little or no food there aren't many options for most but to flee or join the 'war veterans.' Who would have thought Ian Smith's regime might ever be regarded with fond nostalgia. And in other states the British for all their self interest, perfidy and theft presided over an era of stability, protecting their labour pools from centuries old tribal bloodletting. Hardly surprising that friction amongst far larger populations should regress to the same old dynamics. "The fundamental things apply....
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» RE: The turns of history
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: The turns of history
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: Last Chance on Jun 7, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyway, what kind of a wimped-out Red was Mugabe if he couldn't even give the land back to the people (even if horribly mismanaged by state bureacracies)? Weird! As it's turned out he has become a perfect example of the "cult of the individual", far more like Stalin than Castro, and a total liability to the people of that tortured land. So, who or what is keeping him in power? Where is his money coming from?
Meanwhile, their population keeps growing beyond the land's ability to feed them without destroying whatever is left of the natural environment, like the rest of our endangered planet. Poor Africa. If only the Europeans had the decency to leave it alone, what a great Continent of many independent peoples it might be today, or maybe just a lot of warring empires. We'll never know.
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» RE: A very strange situation.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: A very strange situation.
Posted by: Last Chance
» MUGABE A HERO RE: A very strange situation.
Posted by: CHOSEN WORLD OUR WAR ON ISLAM & OUR OWN FREEDOMS
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Posted by: jgrossnas on Jun 7, 2008 6:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact of the matter is that Mugabe was once a great leader and a model for other nations in the area. Early on, he decided that despite their history and the uneven proportion of ownership, the white farmers were necessary to help keep the country's economy on track. In fact, Zimbabwe was able to export many goods to other countries in the region after Mugabe took over and had a thriving tourist industry too- Victoria Falls is simply a breath-taking sight to behold.
Unfortunately, Mugabe later became a despot who needed to cling to power at any cost. The so-called "war veterans" (many of whom were too young to have fought in the country's war of independence) were just knife-wielding mobs that Mugabe's party had armed to drive out the farmers and gain popularity among the general populace by 'giving the land back to the people.' In theory, that's a great idea but the fact of the matter was that these mobs didn't know anything about farming and these lands became dirt because the new owners didn't know how to cultivate it. The economy fell apart and Mugabe didn't have a plan to fix it- he only blamed 'foreign media' for stirring up trouble.
The author of this Alternet article obviously bought Mugabe's line and is now ready to blame the media for Zimbabwe's problems.
But ask a few questions about the state of the country and it becomes clear about who is destroying it. Who is shutting down any newspaper in the country that's critical of the govt? Who is still arming mobs to go after opposition parties? Who is jailing the leaders of the opposition parties without any explanation? Who is shutting down an election that seems to have given the opposition parties the edge in the govt? Who doesn't have any plan to fix the economic problems of the country?
The answer to all of those questions is Mugabe and his band of thugs. They're the only who have destroyed their own country to keep themselves in power and have shown that they're ruthless enough to stop at nothing to do so. Until they're out of office, Zimbabwe won't recover from these catastrophes that Mugabe has created.
One last point about Zimbabwe. Let's look at another hated leader whose disastrous policies have caused misery and doesn't seem to care about the consequences. Anyone want to defend George W. Bush?
As for South Africans, the millions of people who lived in the homelands had high hopes that the end of Apartheid would bring not just freedom but also economic justice for everyone. The problem was that the old system left the country so broken and lopsided that the ANC couldn't possibly fix it any time soon. As a result, crime is a huge problem there now and many people still live in squalid conditions and don't have jobs. That makes for a very volatile situation. Then when you have people coming in from other countries taking jobs, that's a recipe for anger and resentment.
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» The basic problem ignored
Posted by: Last Chance
» immigrants taking jobs
Posted by: ptown
» It's not the immigrants fault
Posted by: Last Chance
» Neither are the people whose income is being undercut by immigration from Latin America to blame.
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A very ignorant article
Posted by: brianct
» What version on *reality* do you deludedly live within?
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: What version on *reality* do you deludedly live within?
Posted by: brianct
» RE: A very ignorant article
Posted by: ciccio
» RE: A very ignorant article
Posted by: Paseña
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Posted by: mia66 on Jun 7, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am personally far more concerned by the actions of the present American Empire but... If we are going to talk about it:
Zimbabwe/Rhodesia is not the only country to suffer at the hands of Cecil Rhodes & his family. I live in an ex-British colony town that has a couple of stately homes that he built, streets named after him & a statue. What he did personally & for the British Empire was extremely destructive. What is important now is how to right those wrongs in a manner acceptable to all.
Mr. Mugabe gave the impression that he would be the right person for the job back when he was originally voted in by the newly Zimbabwean population.
Unfortunately he did not take the path to reconciliation that New Zealand has taken.
New Zealand set up the Waitangi Tribunal to negotiate settlements and reparations with the local tribes, whereas Mr. Mugabe chose forceable evictions of the white farmers.
I am appalled that the author of this article could possibly condone necklacing as a valid form of protest by the South African population. Necklacing is not a form of performance art - it causes real suffering and death.
The Zimbabwean refugees are victims of Mr. Mugabe's shocking policies to keep himself in power - not some mythical white farmers. If the author had bothered to do some research, he would have found that these farmers were run off their land years ago and are not relevant to the current situation. The veterans have made no effort to run the farms that Mr. Mugabe so generously gave to them.
Zimbabwe has recently lost a lot their middle class educated black citizens because they can afford to leave - I know, because a lot of them have escaped to my country. The reasons for leaving that they give is that they no longer want to be a part of what is going on in their own country. They say that Mr. Mugabe lost his reason after his wife died & his new wife has encouraged him in his present endeavours.
Whether or not this is the case - Mr. Mugabe is determined to blame the British - and more recently the Commonwealth for the state of his country.
I have to accept that he must be psychotic & that Zimbabwe hasn't a hope of relief until he is dead.
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» RE: Mugabe blames others for his own personal evil
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Mugabe blames others for his own personal evil
Posted by: mia66
» RE: Mugabe blames others for his own personal evil
Posted by: bingahaba
» Hysteria
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Hysteria
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Hysteria
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: johnshadows on Jun 7, 2008 7:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Becky on Jun 7, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: saddened
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: rhstracey on Jun 7, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: billwald on Jun 7, 2008 9:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So Americans should burn aliens?
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: So Americans should burn aliens?
Posted by: klife
» RE: So Americans should burn aliens?
Posted by: bingahaba
» Unfortunately, America has a sordid History of Burning aliens.
Posted by: klife
» Who teaches you kids this crap?
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: jhubbard on Jun 7, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people believe that the most dominate organism of any ecosystem are the one's who directly kill and consume or eliminate their prey or competitors!
But this is NOT so! The most dominate one's are the one's that use the most clever forms of deception, one's that do not kill their prey directly, but turn others into LIVING SACRIFICES to do the bidding of the SLAVE MASTER, or Parasitizor, alias Colonizer!
I am a grass roots farmer from Kansas. Africa is not the only place that colonization takes place, it does so right here in the land of the free! Big moneyed interests, or those who are part of the International Banking System, have found clever ways to turn some of the most valuable assets of the land of the free, USA, into their colonized possessions!
Those who produce food, people energy, of America as well as other countries, have been effectually turned into slaves to those who control the world's money flow!
The 13th amendment outlawed slave labor on paper, but those who are clever enough and rich enough, have found ways to subvert this amendment!
In colonization, the colonizer does not want to necessarily own the land, just the land owner or operator of the life supporting resources they personally need to survive!
To me, it is much more evil than those who openly seek to take what others have that might benefit them and their offspring directly!
Why? The colonizers come in as the colonized's friend! We are going to civilize you and help you when their goal all along is to legally rob them of what valuable resources they have while leaving them to have to cut each other's throats in order to survive! And of course, they can keep the Bibles, complements of the Colonizers or civilizers!
Colonization may seem less barbaric to some, but to me, it's long term costs, as (GARY so well pointed out in this article), the underlying monsters it ends up creating while shifting the blame from the colonizers to the uncivilized colonized, is much more evil and barbaric!
Many of those who wrote negative comments about this article, probably believe they are totally innocent of such crimes as are taking place in Zimbabwe, not believing how that Americans, making up less than 5% of world population, while using more than 25% of it's annual useable energy supply, including rich food diets, could possible have any connection to what is going on in a nation thousands of miles away!
Whenever one starts, looking closely, their are very few, if any, totally innocent!
Jerold Hubbard, Top Soil Miner alias Grass Roots Farmer
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» RE: Colonization is actually parasitation
Posted by: jrr56
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Posted by: johnclark on Jun 7, 2008 9:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course land reform is the major issue facing both South Africa & Zimbabwe. Those of us who "have been following the situation" knows how responsible "New Labor" was for contributing to the mess, but to make land reform succeed, it has to be fair to all parties. It also has to be structured so that production remains constant & the new owners are given the education they will need to make this happen.
South Africa's land reform is following this model. And, from everything I've heard from Tsvangirai, he will follow this model. I also have confidence that when Sen Obama becomes our president, that he will use his knowledge and skill to help Africa deal with the situation. The peace deal in Kenya, while not perfect, is an example of what Africans can achieve when the world community listens. In the case of Zimbabwe, the MDC must be allowed to take power. Mugabe should have accepted the offer to peacefully step down. Hopefully, his old self will tell him to do what is best for all Africa.
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» RE: The "African World War"
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: The "African World War"
Posted by: bingahaba
» Kenya
Posted by: johnclark
» RE: Kenya
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Kenya
Posted by: johnclark
» Kwani etc
Posted by: bingahaba
» MDC wants to privatise Zimbabwe
Posted by: brianct
Comments are closed-
Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 7, 2008 9:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is what I wrote way back a few years ago..
August 2002
Mr. Mugabe does not want the english economic refugees to enjoy disproportionate amount of luxury while the rest of population is simpoly grinding to survive-so what is wrong with that thinking? It is wrong when it involves english parasites. These people had moved from Zimbawe to england soon after Independence bit when they found that englasih people live in shoe box sized houses with inflated trumped up prices and have much lower standard of living then thses colonialists moved back to zimbawe. oon after second world war america had forced Japan to do so called land reform(in order to break the power of japanese upper classes) and that was called reform. In many other countries like India the land reform was done for the sake of justice and that was hailed. Mr. Mugabe waited too long to do that sort of land reform and hwen he belatedly decided to do tthat then the english parasites and spes from english govet, to BBc and english media started barkinglike jackels. After all it is their people who are being affected this time. The english media ahd already neatralized elson mandela and installed a western stooge in south africa and made a lot of propganda agasint winnei mandela-simply becasue winnie had people;s suppoert-this is not wanted by the english meddlers. The similar thing they want everywhere-mr. Mugabe does not oblige them now so he is villain. their jeolosy about elections in other parts of world does not extend to U.s. a. or england-in fact their the false election of bush thru fraud and goonery it was the englsih media only (including bbc) which was very anxious that court does not overrule Bush election becasue as they siad bush was good for allies(read england) . no procession , no supprt for oppsiotion -on the contrary all englsh media was angry with m. gore for having pinpointed irrregularity in U.S. a. elction. all becasue the third rate country like england can live in reflected glory of Usa power.
In fact for last 20 years and more so in last 15 years the english have shown their true clour-after cold war it is clear that the impotent english have been trying to piggy back pon american strength(americans in majority are not anglosaxons)and thru america england treis to bully other nations-install dictators their and then those dictators without peoples supprt are asked to bring the money to england and buy house in london-that creates housing boom and this nation of plumbers(graduation from pirates to shopkeepers then plumbers now) feels very happy with inflated house prices and low qulaity housing and infrastructrue-the money from abroad comes to london stock exchange and fuels the stock price. The london stock price should be forced to be lowered to one fourth of its present price becasue the rest is all false pumped up price with no real value. wht does england produce that any country would want? the real indutrial nations of the worls -Japan, germany have been in recesssion for last 10years while this england has been booming after gulf war for no reason other than becasue it falsley persuaded other countries and their dicataors to bring money to london and starve the rest of worrld. For God' sake the english plumber does not even eat healthy food.--atleast not non infected.
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» RE: real problem with zimbawe-outside interference by agents of occupiers.
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: klife on Jun 7, 2008 9:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!
No one is justifying murder. However, the murder, madness, and mayhem perpetrated on a massive scale, heretofore unknown to humankind, by Europeans, a short time ago, is having disastrous consequences, the world over, today.
And Friend, this is just the tip of the iceburg.
If we are serious about HEALING our wounded world, before it implodes, we MUST admit our unprecedented wrongs, and convene international councils, unaffected by white supremacy, and charge them with developing HONEST solutions. This will not be easy or cheap.
ZIMBABWE'S current problems (like it or not) do have thier roots in Mass Eurpopean Murder that many of us are trying to minimize, if not flat out justify.
So get real.
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» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: klife
» RE: GET REAL!
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: GET REAL! Hip Priest...
Posted by: HipPriest
» Would MDC give black zimbabwean land to whites?
Posted by: brianct
» RE: Would MDC give black zimbabwean land to whites?
Posted by: HipPriest
» MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: brianct
» RE: MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: HipPriest
» RE: MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: brianct
» RE: MDC complicit in brutal sanctions
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: PGR88 on Jun 7, 2008 9:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Same Old Same Old
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: MitPot on Jun 7, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are all crawling out of the woodworks from NewZealand, Australia, etc....
They had their greedy dirty fingers on our land. No more !!
The white settler economy was never ours, we the Africans.
So Mugabe destroys it.
Big deal !!
We Africans have been tilling the land while these Rhodies gorge themselves like there is no tomorrow. It had to end one day. No ?
Otherwise the future promises us many more Mugabes to come !! How else could be ? Aren't we human ?
These British settlers ought to be going back to their country.
Instead we have over 2 million of them move to South Africa ever since the coming of the Mandela client regime.
Why does the BBC not tell the world about these British foreigners coming in to take our jobs?
Hopefully, we Africans will get wiser.
Instead of lashing out at fellow Africans we have to set the (British)Standard Bank of South Africa on fire.
It is such institutions that bleed us for the comfort of their small NAZI queen !!
Our struggle is not over.
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» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: jrr56
» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: ciccio
» RE: ventually We Africans will free ourselves !!l
Posted by: ciccio
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jbuuty on Jun 7, 2008 10:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Kenya many Whites fled the country, fearing the coming of the new African government, and much of the land was bought by Kenyans, so the land problem wasn't quite the same there. Though it has come back in different ways. In Zimbabwe the White farmers mostly stayed, they didn't want to sell and Britain didn't help to finance the buy outs as they promised. So the historical injustices of colonialism remained strong even well after independence.
You can also add in the north-south ethnic problems in Zimbabwe, and a president that became more and more dictatorial as the years passed and you have a real problem. South Africa has been a ticking time bomb. It is very similar to Zimbabwe - without the dictator.
In addition, the author was NOT justifying the act of necklacing, but using a rhetorical device to explain the much deeper causes of the recent violence. Western media generally blames Mugabe with all the problems in Zimbabwe, and they don't like Mbeki much either.
I wonder how many of those appalled by the article would react if they were in the same hopeless situations and robbed of all dignity. I doubt they would behave much differently.
I'm also amazed for the nth time of the amount of simply bad responses to any article dealing with race issues. Is the Left really that racist? Are most posters really Trolls? What is going on?
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» Your are right
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: branbello on Jun 7, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Genius
Posted by: Last Chance
» Suppurating pustule of ignorance on the *realities* of population. . .
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: bingahaba on Jun 7, 2008 10:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» PLS delete
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: opmoc on Jun 7, 2008 11:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "White British" in Africa and Asia did not commit mass genocide.
The "White British" might have occupied about half the planet - even more succesful than the Romans - but like the Romans we also did a lot of good - and organised the building of roads and schools and grew lots of food for people to eat.
What are you suggesting - that all whites born in Africa and Asia come back to Europe?
That would mean we would also have to absorb you Bloody Americans
And Britain today is a completely multi-racial society and most of the time we all get on fine.
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» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: bingahaba
» Grow Up, son
Posted by: klife
» RE: white british are the parasite race which msut be tackled soon.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: surferboy2001
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» would like this necklacing for atleast two persons.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: Slagging Off The "White British" in Africa is Grotesquely Racist
Posted by: HipPriest
Comments are closed-
Posted by: klife on Jun 7, 2008 11:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The premise many white supremacict seem to miss is that today's curretn crisis cannot be viewed, understood, or rectified in a vacuum.
For Western (white) reporters to ignore the deep historical connections to the original SIN of mass maniacal Murder, mayhem, madness and colonization, when reporting, is to continue the racist policies that led to today's problems.
We should be beyond that. Just tell the truth, (we all know it anyway)and let's work together to rectify the very real, DEEP-ROOTED problems.
This should not be that hard for you to understand.
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Posted by: redgreenbrown on Jun 7, 2008 1:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was not only Zimbabweans that were targeted - it was Somalis, Congolese, Mozambicans, Malawians as well as many other nationals that have come here as refugees from various instabilities in the continent. And these instabilities, while partially caused by colonial history, are not about land redistribution in Zimbabwe.
In Cape Town where I live there are very few Zulu people, most of the people here are from the Xhosa nation, the nation of Nelson Mandela. Attacks on 'foreigners', referred to as kwerikweris have long been a problem, particularly on Somalis, but also on Malawians and Congolese, of which there are large communities here.
I suggest the writer leave investigation of what goes on in Africa to Africans and stick to his own balliwick. This article is biased, ignorant and based on several false premises. There are snippets of truth in amongst it such as the skewed land holdings in Zimbabwe, but similar situations remain in Namibia and South Africa yet these have not even been mentioned? This is poor journalism and is simply a trashy article not worthy of Alternet - or any other - pubication.
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Posted by: redgreenbrown on Jun 7, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets also ask the number one question journalists should always ask: Who stands to gain most from this anti-foreigner sentiment sweeping South Africa. Winnie Mandela suggested Morgan Tsvangarai, as it would help to return some of teh more than 3 million Zimbabweans here home to vote for him.
I dont believe it is that complicated. From what i have heard, and my ears are close to the ground, is that these attacks were by poor locals who simply wanted stuff. My views have been backed up by most serious media.
Something or somebody may be behind this but it was definitely not as it was painted by this very poorly researched article.
The problems of colonialism are not going to be cured by attacking each other, they will be overcome through standing together and making a better nation, region and African future for us all, no matter where we come from in Africa.
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Posted by: vh2q on Jun 7, 2008 2:12 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The black Zimbabweans that have migrated South to SA did so to escape political persecution or even genocide by Mugabe's fifth brigade, and to find work which is NOT AVAILABLE in Zimbabwe and food which is VERY HARD TO GET in Zimbabwe. Note Zimbabwe has been 'free' of white control since 1980 and free of 'colonial' control since the 60s. It is now 2008. Is it possible that ANY of the problems in that country are due to the policies of ZANU PF led by Robert Mugabe, who has run the show since 1980, ie for 28 years? Or is it all the fault of some hard-working farmers who happen to be white?
The white farmers lost their "Stranglehold" on land in Zim in 2000-2002. In the process, 100-200 black employees and their families were THROWN OFF each these farms by the new occupants. Many of these farmworkers had no option but to seek work in RSA. Many of the new farm owners are not farmers but politicians and high ranking military/police. The vast majority of these formerly productive farms now produce very little, and if there is any production, it is consumed on the land by the new residents, who for the most part are living in mud huts.
The author fails to explain why the Mozambican, and even Nigerian immigrants are flooding in to RSA. I don't think there are more than 20 white farmers in either country. So it can't be them!
The meta-question here is whether it's fundamentally wrong for a small percentage of people with white skins to have a "stranglehold" on farms, in SA, USA, or Zimbabwe. When you eat a slice of bread made from wheat grown by a farmer, does it matter what color the farmer's skin is? Does it matter who first set foot on the undeveloped bush that later became a farm? Which would you prefer, a piece of bread affordably priced made from wheat grown by a farmer of the WRONG skin color, or no bread at all? That's the choice in Zim.
I would like to point out that in Zim or RSA or most African countries, it perfectly legal for anyone to purchase land. But what tends to happen is the land ends up in the stewardship of those best qualified to manage it. Hence, throughout the world, a small number of people who have the capital and skills to farm, end up owning the farm land. In Southern Africa, some of them are black, but for whatever reasons, a disproportionate number of them are white.
Finally, you may wonder why it is that South Africa, which is run by the ANC, is still able to provide employment and food? The answer is simple; the ANC is going down the same path in SA as ZANU in Zim, but they are just ten years behind. The same problems are starting to surface in RSA now, and that's why we have the South African blacks starting to repel the immigrant blacks. There is a new bill tabled in SA that gives the Minister the right to confiscate land without full compensation. This comes on the heels of the Land Claims process, which has expired.
One wonders where the unemployed hungry masses will go when there is no economy in RSA, just as there is none in Zimbabwe today.
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» RE: xcuse me, a dose of reality please
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: GLOWE on Jun 7, 2008 2:49 PM
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» RE: The Real Injustice
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: Hans B on Jun 7, 2008 3:20 PM
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Posted by: JayHaden on Jun 7, 2008 4:04 PM
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Posted by: Wynford Jane on Jun 7, 2008 5:08 PM
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Please be informed that 'Zulus' form one subculture - out of eleven other subcultural tribes in SA - such as the Tswanas, Vendas, Xhosas, Shotos, etc. etc. ALL OF THESE 'tribes' participated in the xenophobic attacks - not only Zulus. As of record - the greater part of the disturbance happened around Johannesburg - and the Zulus live more than 400 kilimetres away in Kwa Zulu Natal!!! (near Durban).
Your information about 'white' farmers being the essence of all of this - is VERY VERY FAR FETCHED! One can ask the question - WHEN last did the wrtter visit SA or Zimbabwe?
Rodes did what he did a hundred and fifty years or so ago - as the writer indicates 'liked the land' more than the 'niggers'. (Black people has never been referred to as 'Niggers'in SA or Zim - it is an Americanism, and Rhodes certainly never referred to them as 'Niggers' either.)
Please look at the present today situation and don't try to factor Rhodes into the equation. There are people right here and now - sleeping out in the freezing rain and winds of up to 65kl an hour - in flimsy tents - with only the clothes on their backs that they were wearing when they escaped. It is winter - they have nothing.
dESPITE THIS most of these foreigners are well educated and skilled - and yes pleasant and well natured.
One can ask the question - have some Americans become so calloused in the face of non-American's suffering - that prompted an article - written matter-of-facttly - as if these people are not 'real' - but just part of a computer game or something....
Write something about the so called American Indians - and see what theories you can muster around 'land-grabbing'??? Or was that okay - the same okayness - as what is happening in Iraq.....
Today there are virtually NO white farmers left in Zimbabwe. The population at large also have no food - and aid workers distributed food to the masses - untill yesterday - as Mugabe decided that his people should rather starve.
I am just wondering why you actually wrote this article.... What is the point of such ill infomed statements?? What are you actually saying?
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Jun 7, 2008 5:27 PM
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Is this not how you treat children? And yet this condescending and arrogant view is prevalent on the left.
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» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Arrogance of the left.
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left. Continued
Posted by: bingahaba
» Another thing
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Arrogance of the left. Continued
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: CHOSEN WORLD OUR WAR ON ISLAM & OUR OWN FREEDOMS on Jun 7, 2008 6:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One poster responded by stating: -
"I don't care WHAT white people may have done to these Africans, but NOTHING can excuse this abhorrent and vile practice. What cruelty! What a horror! HOW DISGUSTING."
This self forgiving view of what Whites did to Africans while stealing their lands provides the context for the West's campaign against Mugabe - 'we stole the land fair and square from those Black bastards.'
Until Blacks recover their own stolen lands they will remain economic slaves to the White land thieves.
Mugable will be remembered in African history as a remarkable man of iron will and a champion of African liberation. My "THE BLACK BUG - The genetic bomb", views Mugabe in this light.
My "CHOSEN WORLD - Our war on Islam and our own freedoms", discusses the near future for an Africa dominated by another round of genetically engineered diseases and how Black Africa can finally be free.
Anyway, good article.
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» RE: THE BLACK BUG AND CHOSEN WORLD - IN CONTEXT
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: THE BLACK BUG AND CHOSEN WORLD - IN CONTEXT
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: pangolin on Jun 7, 2008 10:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tough shit; send the bill to our dead, white, grandfathers. It can sit there with my complaints about environmental degradation and the lack of Moa. Fix the problems in front of you; the past is not changeable.
Africa for africans. (one 'a') You got it. Please note that all problems are now yours and yours alone. When we get all our problems sorted out here in the North we'll give you a call. Don't wait up. We might be so kind to allow you access to our internet with it's unprecedented access to information.
IMHO, Zimbabwe is a mess precisely because Mugabe attempted to emulate Europe instead of creating a custom, home-grown solution to his problems. Right up there at the top of the list was using a floating currency rather than some sort of commodity based currency. When you have to print bills denominated in millions it's time to throw the whole mess out. Next was emulating the habits of Northern leaders who know nothing about how the potato hits the plate. Using Ronald Reagan or Joseph Stalin instead of Jimmy Carter as a leadership model was bound to backfire.
Malthus is STILL right and doubly so in Africa. It doesn't matter if every African is born with innate knowlege of organic, biodynamic, biochar and permaculture farming methods if the population doubles every 30 years. You will still starve. Do the math. Do the math. Do the math.
Africa does not get it's own physics. Right now it has to import dietary calories. Ask Cuba how well that plan works in the long run.
Good luck with that.
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Posted by: HighburyJD on Jun 8, 2008 2:30 AM
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 8, 2008 5:09 AM
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Posted by: robinoche on Jun 8, 2008 5:52 AM
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» RE: Has the author interviewed no South Africans or Zimbabweans?
Posted by: HipPriest
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Posted by: dr421 on Jun 8, 2008 6:00 AM
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Posted by: Petrus on Jun 8, 2008 7:21 AM
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Posted by: arclight7 on Jun 8, 2008 7:50 AM
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» RE: Blame Whitie!
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Blame Whitie!
Posted by: BCcovers
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Posted by: jared_james on Jun 8, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
please comment on what has been happening in southern africa post-1994. can whites still be wholey to blame for regions ills. and if so it must be due to complicity by the ruling black class in south africa. no one is kidding themselves by thinking that white hands and money are totally clean in zimbabwe, but we need to broaden our view of the ruling class to include the new african elite (who less than 20 years ago were full of the ideas and ideals Alternet seems to expound).
this article is at best overly simplistic and at worst incendiary mindless drivel. in future please have columnists familiar with recent southern african politics and empathetic to the plight of people there comment on unfolding events.
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Posted by: jbloggz on Jun 8, 2008 12:39 PM
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I lived in Bulawayo, Rhodesia for a year in the late 60s. Ian Smith had declared UDI and there were sanctions against the country. True the white farmers had the best land, however they used their knowle3dge and technology to farm the land in a proper way. Thus over many years of colonial rule their farms had developed. Huge maize yields were produced and maize is the Africans staple diet. Also enormous cattle ranches were developed and such is the quality of the land it needed vast acreage to do this. Then there was the tobacco industry of which Rhodesia was a world leader and supplier. Okay the land that was used by those rich white farmers provided work, schools, resources and indeed medical services. It was in the interest of the farmers to do this despite the fact that the lands were mechanized. Had those lands not been developed by these hardy white farmers it would today still be only providing farming at a subsistence level.
When the terrorist war started, the Rhodesian army was predominantly white and despite their smaller numbers they contained the threat for years against the likes of Mugabes forces. The whites despite sanctions etc managed the country well. They had carried our major engineering projects such as the Kariba dam which still today provides power and fish food to the nation, it is still the largest man made lake in Africa. The white population at it's peak was around 250000 and considering the size of this they did some quite amazing work. The African hospital in Harare which was then an African township was one of the most modern in Southern Africa. All built with white expertise.
To blame the colonials the likes of Cecil Rhodes for the present actions of necklacing is somewhat bizarre to say the least.
Recently the Prime minister of Poland a man short in stature and brain remarked as he tried to get more delegates in the EU. That Poland would've had a bigger population had the Germans not killed so many of his countrymen during the last war. Rather a ridiculous statement but perhaps not so disimilar to what this article writer is saying.
I spent the next six years in Malawi a country north of of Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and this was ruled by an African dictator. He did little or nothing to help his population. Probably the likes of people such as me did a good deal more. And yes we made money too. When the new tobacco industry was developed it was solely owned by the President of course. And who did he use to develop the bush into viable farms? Yes those young white farmers from Rhodesia.
I could say a great deal more except to say that I finished off 12 years with 6 in South Africa and I experienced the aparthied regime and the riots in Soweto and other townships. True the country was developed to satisfy the white population but again work was provided by the whites for the local Africans. Since South Africa has changed the gulf between rich and poor is even worse and this time the exploitation is black on black. If the RSA government leaders are more concerned about their own lifestyles and that of their family and friends small wonder many black south africans have been losers. To blame Cecil Rhodes for this is ludicrous. The population is increasing at a higher level than can be properly supported. Look at the recent horrors of the intercene fighting in Kenya where the population is very well educated.
No better to look at the root cause. The Zulus were always going to be the losers as they have had no real political power in the ANC. If they're fighting it's most likely due to frustrations they face as second class citizens in RSA. The RSA government must take full blame for what is happening, they won't,they're weak. And Mugabe is fully rsponsible for the disaster in Zimbabwe.
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» Of Africans, blacks, Zimbabweans, and terrorism
Posted by: bingahaba
» Of Zulus as losers
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Another inconvenient truth
Posted by: jbloggz
» projection?
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 8, 2008 7:21 PM
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By Richard C. Cook
5-28-8
The following is based on a talk given by the author at the "End of Empire" session of the "Building a New World" Conference of the Prout World Assembly at Radford University, Radford, Virginia, on May 22, 2008.
quote---
"
Hamilton and Jefferson split, and that split has defined U.S. politics ever since. Hamilton became the de facto head of the Federalist Party, the ancestor first of the Whigs and then of the Republicans. Jefferson called himself a Republican at first, then a Democratic-Republican, then finally his party became the Democratic Party that has lasted until today. Of course we know that the two parties have come more and more to resemble each other in recent decades in supporting policies of imperialism.
Jefferson was elected president in what was called the Civic Revolution of 1800. The first thing he did was cut military spending. He did what no one has done since, which was to balance the federal budget for eight consecutive years. Then he took an action which defined our nation to a considerable extent all the way into the 20th century. In 1803 he doubled the size of the nation overnight through the Louisiana Purchase.
So for the next century, instead of competing with the European nations for overseas colonies, our energies were devoted to settling the North American continent, to the detriment, of course, of the Native American peoples. We became, as did Russia in Eurasia and Brazil in South America, a continental land power. And we stayed that way for over a century.
But empire finally caught up with us. Across the sea in South Africa a man named Cecil Rhodes was devising a plan to make the British Empire the ruler of the globe. He created a secret society to accomplish this, called the Round Table, using money provided by the Rothschild family, who had controlled the British economy since the Napoleonic wars.
The U.S. was integral to their plans. Following is the relevant passage from Cecil Rhodes' will of 1877. His aims, he wrote in the will, were:
The extension of British rule throughout the world, the perfecting of a system of emigration from the United Kingdom and of colonization by British subjects of all lands wherein the means of livelihood are attainable by energy, labour, and enterprise,the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of a British Empire, the consolidation of the whole Empire, the inauguration of a system of Colonial Representation in the Imperial Parliament which may to tend to weld together the disjointed members of the Empire, and finally the production of so great a power as to hereafter render wars impossible and promote the best interests of humanity.
Think about that: "the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of the British Empire." In fact, as Professor Carroll Quigley made clear in his celebrated book, The Anglo-American Establishment, the British planners, whose descendants still rule that nation, acknowledged that a time would come when the U.S. would be the senior partner in the empire, which is exactly what happened over the century that lay ahead.
The Russian writer P.D. Ouspensky said all the history you read about in the history books is "the history of crime." This is what he was talking about.
The takeover of America was accomplished when the British, European, and American bankers created the Federal Reserve System in 1913. That year our nation was hijacked. Congressman Charles Lindbergh, father of the future aviator, called it "the legislative crime of the ages."
The Federal Reserve is a privately-owned central banking system modeled on the Bank of England. >From that day onward we got all the accoutrements of empire
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» RE: how the british parasties have used america.-let alone africa.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: how the british parasties have used america.-let alone africa.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: how the british parasties have used america.-not only Africa.
Posted by: avatar_singh
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Posted by: moflard on Jun 9, 2008 2:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which apparently is BAD
"... they were one of the great empires of the world, moving south in their own wave of conquest."
Which apparently was GOOD. Y'see you're only allowed to be a git if you're NOT white.
"But like everyone who got in the Empire's way, they were slaughtered and forced off the good land by the same holier-than-thou white people who stole all the farmland in Zimbabwe."
And I wonder why the !Kung amongst others are now living on marginal (at best) land. Ooh could it be the influx of Bantu speaking peoples? And what about the various Bantu speaking people that the Zulu's conquered, what happened to them - or the massacre at Weenen (commited by the Zulu during celebrations of a treaty with the Dutch colonists)? Ah, but they weren't white so they're allowed (even encouraged it seems) to murder and rape and pillage, and it's all good because their empires were "nice" murdering conquering rapacious states.
This is BY FAR the worst article I've ever read on Alternet - are you running out of decent authors? All that needs adding is that the British monarchy's really a bunch of disguised Lizard-Men and founded the Boy Scouts as a front for the Bavarian Illuminati.
It's this type of "white guilt" condescension that gives Liberals a bad name. Honestly I wonder if this article isn't as right-wing spoof it's so bad.
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» RE: Double standards is the "Liberal" way
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Double standards is the "Liberal" way
Posted by: moflard
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Posted by: SAfrican on Jun 9, 2008 5:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The facts are simple: when Robert Mugabe took over Zimbabwe, he inherited a country described as the 'breadbasket of Africa'. Today it is an agricultural desolation, created first and foremost through the policies of land redistribution of Mugabe. There are no more white farmers in Zimbabwe worth mentioning. Brecher makes a cardinal mistake in assuming that Zimbabwe's land is STILL currently occupied by them. The wasteland in Zimbabwe today is directly attributable to these policies. This is quite apart from questions of whether the land should or should not have been redistributed, and whether the white farmers deserved what they got, which are other issues entirely.
The flood of Zimbabwean refugees into South Africa is purely a result of Mugabe's domestic brutality and incompetence. It has nothing to white farmers.
Brecher's analysis of the nature of of the violence here is more or less correct, except for that it is directed at more than just Zimbabweans. Somalis, Mozambicans, even Pakistanis have suffered. And it is by more than just Zulus. Xhosa and others have also taken part. There is also strong participation by pure criminal elements that have taken advantage of the chaos to loot and plunder.
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» Sad that you did not do your Homework
Posted by: brianct
» The oversimplification that IS the Liberal Mindset
Posted by: moflard
» ZANU supporters murdered: Will this story be on the BBC?
Posted by: brianct
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Posted by: brianct on Jun 9, 2008 4:07 PM
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Zimbabwe news
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Posted by: brianct on Jun 9, 2008 4:16 PM
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'Castro “confident of Zimbabwe’s victory”
“Castro, who met with President Mugabe for three consecutive days during the visit, said Zimbabwe would triumph in its quest to equally redistribute land, saluting Zimbabweans for their heroic efforts to control their resources.
“He added that the country would overcome the present problems despite pressure by some powerful Western countries.
“’There is no country weak enough to be crushed. That is why I am confident in Zimbabwe’s victory despite the obstacles’, said President Castro, whose country has for 43 years resisted a United States-led isolation.
African support
“African ambassadors accredited to Cuba met President Mugabe and reiterated their countries’ support for Zimbabwe in its fight against imperialist forces.
“Cuba has helped Zimbabwe since the days of the liberation struggle.
etc
Castro supports president Mugabe
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Posted by: philipcfromnyc on Jun 13, 2008 7:53 AM
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In the interests of full disclosure – I was born and raised in South Africa at the height of the apartheid era. As a white South African, I was "entitled" to a privileged life in a country of riches beyond imagination. However, I was appalled by apartheid and by the status quo; as soon as I completed my degree and had saved sufficient funds to jump-start a new life in another country, I fled to the US. I left South Africa at the age of 22, and settled in the US, to return to South Africa only for occasional vacations.
I firmly believe in the following assertion, and will leave it to other readers of AlterNet to comment on its validity:
Pointing out a fact is not, in and of itself, racist. How a person chooses to interpret that fact – how a person places that fact in an explanatory context, or how a person alludes to events pertaining to that fact, on the other hand, can indicate whether the person concerned is racist or neutral, ignorant or wise, obdurate or quick-thinking. In short, merely observing a fact cannot indicate racism on the part of the observer; it takes insight into the paradigm adopted by the observer to determine whether or not he or she is racist.
Here are some facts:
Brecher is flat-out wrong when he asserts that most victims of necklacing are already dead when they are set on fire. To the contrary; most victims of necklacing have their arms bound together by barbed wire, and frequently have their hands chopped off immediately before being set on fire. Those victims whose hands are not chopped off are frequently forced to light their own necklaces. It is not the fire itself that kills the victim; in most cases, the mixture of burning rubber and petrol releases choking, poisonous fumes that sear the insides of the victim’s lungs like rice paper. Death is agonizing and far from quick, many victims struggle for several minutes as the burning rubber literally melts into the flesh of the victim’s arms and chest.
Winnie Mandela famously endorsed necklacing in a speech delivered on 13 April 1985 in Munsieville (a township near Krugersdorp in Gauteng Province). She never retracted this endorsement (“With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country.”)
When Rhodesia was handed over to Robert Mugabe some 30 years ago, it was popularly termed the “breadbasket of Southern Africa.” It had a rich and vibrant economy, and Mugabe was seen as a true leader who would carry the nation forward under a reign of prosperity and plenty.
Zimbabwe is now utterly prostrated. It is difficult to buy bread and milk anywhere in the country. Inflation hit 165,000% on 16 April 2008. Very few of the farms are functional; those that do still function are almost all still white-owned. When the Zimbabwe constitution was ratified, it included a clause similar to the “takings” clause embedded in the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, prohibiting the taking of farms without just compensation. Mugabe eliminated this Clause, and the white farmers have almost all been dispossessed. It is certainly true that many of these farms were owned by white people whose ancestors robbed the native population at gunpoint – but how does this bear on the legality or morality of seizing the land several generations later?
CONTINUED...
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Posted by: philipcfromnyc on Jun 13, 2008 7:54 AM
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South Africa is now plagued by power cuts on a daily basis. Shopping centers are plunged into darkness for two or three hours every day. South Africa’s wealth lies largely in its mines (the land is rich in platinum, gold, and other precious metals and vital commodities). The platinum mines have been closed down, at least for the time being, because the power company cannot guarantee that power will be available to pull the men from the ground on a reliable basis (of course there is backup power, but such power is intended for emergency usage only, and cannot be relied on to power the day-to-day operation of the mines). When the “rolling blackouts” hit, elevators get trapped between floors for hours on end; freezers and refrigerators stop working, ruining perishable foods; traffic jams cause traffic backups at intersections controlled by traffic lights stretching for miles in every direction; bank credit and debit card verification machines are rendered useless, thereby damaging tourism (a massive source of revenue for the country); hospitals have to cancel and reschedule elective surgeries…
I graduated from the University of the Witwatersrand (“Wits”) in 1985; at that time, Wits was the largest English-medium University in the country, and degrees issued by Wits were accredited in the US. When I last went to South Africa on vacation, I visited my alma mater. Rubbish was strewn everywhere; the once-beautiful lawns, where students would sit and chat in the summer heat, were unkempt, untended, and choked with weeds; the steps leading to the Great Hall had degenerated and decayed; graffiti was sprayed everywhere.
It is not an exaggeration to state that almost all of the current administration’s key figures are under investigation for embezzlement, fraud, corruption, and plundering the public fisc. It is a fact that several prominent Ministers are under investigation for the theft of untold millions of rand (the official currency of South Africa). An historical example is that of Allan Boesak; this anti-apartheid activist was found guilty of fraud in March 1999 (he embezzled R250,000.00 from a Danish investment group, the Coca Cola foundation, and singer Paul Simon) and served just over one year of his three year sentence. He was hoisted onto the shoulders of his jailers and proclaimed a hero, even as he was led into prison. In January 2005, his criminal record was expunged and he received a full presidential pardon.
CONTINUED...
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Posted by: philipcfromnyc on Jun 13, 2008 7:55 AM
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I see cultural chauvinism that makes it impossible for the black leadership to acknowledge that anything good can come from “Western” medicine. I see gross incompetence at every level of government. I see willful theft of monies that were intended to serve the poor. I see levels of incompetence that have brought the electrical supply grid to its knees.
Let me be very clear about one thing. I consider apartheid to have been a monstrous injustice; an insult not just to those who suffered under its yoke, but an insult to humanity itself. I see it as a manifestation of evil that cannot, ever, be excused or mitigated by invoking that tired old doctrine of “the end justifies the means” (a doctrine observed by many people I know).
What is the cause of all this? How much can be explained by referring to apartheid (which has been dead for 15 years)? How much of this is due to the lack of education provided to members of the ruling power under the apartheid regime?
How much is due to something else entirely? And if it is due to something else entirely, what are we dealing with?
PHILIP
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Posted by: OldDogCleve on Jun 13, 2008 9:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But aside from that, of course he is right about some of his assertions about necklacing. For example, if white farmers were still producing food, especially maize, tens of thousands of hungry Zimbabweans would not be struggling to enter and live in South Africa, where the farms are still harvesting bumper crops. The fact that the farmers are white is best left to be resolved another day. My people must have food.
Another example of where Professor Brecher is quite right concerns necklacing. We did not practice it for most of my 50 years of involvement. It only started to occur in the 80s when some of the youngsters grew impatient and began to isolate comrades they suspected of weakness. As he points out, it is a truly awful way to kill an enemy and yes, he is right to blame whites. After all, who invented petrol, tyres, and matches? Certainly not blacks. As is well recorded, Mrs. Mandela was the champion of the necklace (“With our boxes of matches and our necklaces, we shall liberate this country!”). Necklacing does not occur often in Zimbabwe because petrol and matches are scarce. Besides, Comrade Mugabe is a modest man, an intellectual who would not allow his admirers and supporters to resort to such crude measures. It is not only crude, it is unsubtle and the leader has used many alternative approaches to deter people from straying from the right path. His subtlety and modesty is illustrated in his lifestyle. He lives in a modest but appropriate palace. His transport is a perfectly ordinary Mercedes Benz 600 with the required armament for the protection of a Head of State. He is sensitive to diplomatic niceties, and only uses his Rolls Royce on special occasions.
We finally wrested power from the whites in 1994 and there have been very few necklacings since then. Zimbabweans took control of their country more than 30 years ago and have had just a few necklacings in that time. It must be stamped out everywhere in Africa, as I am sure Professor Brecher will agree. As he points out, it was only due to having firearms that the British subdued the Zulus 140 years ago. But the spear remains a potent weapon, as do the knife, the panga and the knobkerrie. If we have scores to settle, we are guided by our ancestors. We honour them by again employing their weapons, instead of the crude and uncivilized so-called necklaces.
OldDogCleve
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Posted by: Paseña on Jun 14, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There may be some educational value in this piece in reminding us that the hard, and un-informed, left can still be just as awful as the equally uninformed far right. But another one like this and I will have to reconsider my financial support for Alternet.
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