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The Tragedy in Tibet: Will Freedom-Loving Countries Stand Up to China?

By Lobsang Chodron, AlterNet. Posted April 1, 2008.


The Olympic torch was lit on March 24. May we ensure that it is a time we do not let the light go out on the Tibetans. Also: How you can help.
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From my room above the Tibetan-exiled community of McLeod Ganj, Dharamsala, India, all throughout the day, I can hear the protests of Tibetan marchers. Their voices strain into the night, an urgent plea for someone to listen, to pay attention, to respond. I have been based here, on and off, over the last three and a half years, but for some reason, now, more than ever, I am listening.

I am an American nun in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.

Before my involvement in Buddhism, I was heavily involved in political work in Washington, DC and San Francisco, California. I thought this was a way to bring about positive change in a conflicted world. I was free to organize political meetings and marches. I was encouraged to speak out in the face of social injustice. I was hired to write about whatever seemed to move political conscience.

However, most individuals born in the United States take these basic liberties for granted. I often did until I engaged in extensive travel outside of the United States. Now, here in Dharamsala, I feel censored. I fear that by writing that I may never be granted another Chinese visa allowing me to travel to Tibet. As a Buddhist, it is too difficult to imagine never again seeing the sacred places and images in Tibet that have so inspired my spiritual practice. In fact, I was due to lead a pilgrimage this May to Tibet. At this moment, however, the tour organizer is researching alternative destinations and designing a new itinerary, one that will take us to a place that is not only holy, but free, not only spiritually beneficial, but safe.

This leads me to question what is free and safe and how best can I respond when those very values are threatened.

Here in Dharamsala, I go down to the town every other day to lend support to the Tibetans. I feel helpless, but join in the protests taking place throughout the town. I clap for, smile at, say thank you (in Tibetan) to, and put my palms together as a symbolic gesture of prayer for the variety of marchers who pass through the narrow streets. At times the Tibetans organize themselves into specific groups with each group marching at different intervals to keep the urgency of their cause heightened. Therefore, at one point I watch a group of Tibetan nuns chanting slogans and waving Tibetan flags through the street. At another time a group of school boys from the Tibetan Children's Village (TCV) swarm through, their fists raised in protest, the blue sweaters and grey slacks of their uniforms betray nothing of their quest for a free homeland.

It is tragic to me how many of these Tibetans have never been able to step foot in their homeland while I have enjoyed two visits to Tibet over the years. Imagine what it is like never to have your own home. To always be a visitor, a refugee without the seeming stability and familiarity of your own land and culture. While I have been on the road for more than three years now, often living out of suitcases, moving rooms, crossing borders, I have a passport that allows me entrance without visa to a country in which I am entitled to stay for as long as I like. I can always go home. Home we often take for granted. For Tibetans, a home such as that is a distant dream.

And I have been warned. I am visitor, a "tourist" in India and it is illegal for me to incite demonstrations and create violence. Some foreigners have already been arrested, their passports stamped giving them 48 hours to leave the country and inability to return to India with this passport or perhaps forever. Creating violence is actually against my very code of ethics as Buddhist nun and therefore, harming others is something in which I am not at all interested. However, what I am most interested in, in this case, is freedom. Most Tibetans are also not citizens of India and their protests have prompted some arrests by the Indian government. Most of them are and always will be refugees here.

The days I do not venture into town, I focus more on my own spiritual practice. Since coming into contact with Tibetan Buddhism, my politics have evolved into a combination of internal and external work. The activism on both fronts feels the best balance now in order to create what His Holiness the Dalai Lama calls "inner disarmament," when the delusions of confusion, anger, desire, pride, jealousy, etc. are subdued and transformed into more positive behavior. This I have found to be some of the most effective political work I have done.

But still these past few days I have felt like a coward. Afraid to act, to write, to sign petitions, to send messages to those in power. I walk past the hunger strikers outside His Holiness the Dalai Lama's temple and see in their eyes that some of them would starve to death for freedom. They won't, though, since His Holiness strongly discourages harming others. And this includes themselves. I wonder what I would starve to death for.

In Tibet, it is far worse than starving. The accounts we read daily have come out of Tibet via mobile phones and at tremendous risk to the caller. I think of the bravery of those who have stood up in Tibet to raise awareness to the Tibetan plight. Risking execution, beatings, imprisonment and torture, these individuals blaze more brightly for me than any Olympic torch. Of what truly do I have to be afraid?

I follow the news from around the world. I am stunned to read what Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Thomas Christensen said in response to whether the U.S. would boycott the Olympics, that the "Olympics are an opportunity for China to show progress on human rights..." I wonder what the International Olympics Committee president Jacques Rogge and his committee were thinking in 2001 when they selected China for the 2008 site. The very Olympic charter states that it holds "a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity." Where is the peace and "human dignity" for Gendun Choekyi Nyima, the young Panchen Lama, and his family disappeared several years ago in China? I want to ask the committee how they would define the words "human rights."


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Free the Indians
Posted by: carbon-based on Apr 1, 2008 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Freedom loving countries tried to stand up to Saddam and you saw what happened in this country.

The real answer is yes we should stand up to China, but democrats in this country have no such stomach for that and republicans will be too fast to send in troops!

Lesson, stay out of other countries affairs! Who knows, maybe China will want to come to America and free the Indians!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Free the Mexicans Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Free the Mexicans Posted by: grn1
» RE: Free the Mexicans Posted by: carbon-based
» How the US got into World War One Posted by: war_on_tara
Mobile phones in Tibet...
Posted by: Jasonix on Apr 1, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The accounts we read daily have come out of Tibet via mobile phones and at tremendous risk to the caller."

That anecdote sums up the situation in Tibet better than any essay I could write. Prior to the Chinese occupation, Tibet was a medieval society ruled by an evil theocracy. The Dalai Lama was the head of a slave state in which most of the people were serfs and lived in poverty that would be unimaginable even to Americans living in the antebellum South in 1850. People were routinely tortured, blinded, and had limbs amputated for being pert to their god-kings. Life expectancy was in the 30s.

That isn't to excuse the human rights violations of the Chinese. But we have to stop holding up Tibet as some spiritually enlightened oasis of human goodness, and Buddhism as a superior religion. Tibet was among the worst places on earth, and Buddhism has been used routinely throughout history to justify the rule of the elite and indifference towards the suffering of the poor and sick (these folks brought it on themselves in their past lives). On the whole, life is probably better for the average Tibetan now than when the Dalai Lama ruled - which isn't to say life in Tibet is great, just that keeping your mouth shut and doing what you're told is probably a better deal than being a serf who had his eye gouged out because your lord wanted to rape your daughter.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Then we agree. Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Jasonix- what culture are you from? Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: uh...yeah Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: uh...yeah Posted by: sirios
» RE: Half-truths and imperialism Posted by: oregoncharles
» Pure vitriolic lies Posted by: ladmeaux
we can't even take care of our own people in the USA
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 1, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i love tibet, tibetans, buddhism, india, hinduism, etc...

but if we can't even take care of our own people in the USA...how are any efforts here going to help tibetans?

war?

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Yes, we all believe in human rights but...
Posted by: youngdem on Apr 1, 2008 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economic sanctions with China would crash the U.S. economy. Have you looked at the "made in" tags at any store recently? Best we could do is scale it back. Not to mention the fact that our good economic relations are one of the things keeping us at peace? It's just not pragmatic. Which you would realize if you weren't burying yourself in a monastery.

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» Boycott Coca-Cola, maybe! Posted by: war_on_tara
» Stop shopping? But... Posted by: Cathyc
» Looked at the tags.... Posted by: ladmeaux
CRAZY ASS PEOPLE
Posted by: COLORED_MAJORITY on Apr 1, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I sometimes wish there was a large oil reserve in the center of Tibet."

Clearly, you are an insane person. I would not wish for that on my worst enemy. Are you advocating they be completely exterminated by the west? There culture eradicated and artifacts stolen without an ounce of respect like what the Brits and Yanks are currently doing in Iraq?

Please do not interfere with other countries. Learn your lesson. The Native Americans were exterminated because white people thought they needed to bring order to the quarrelsome tribes. I do not know how many times the West has intercepted on this planet to "BRING ORDER" or its angelically disguised code names "DEMOCRACY" and "FREEDOM" but are nothing but devils who masterfully gain off the backs of the colored.

Please CLEAN YOUR HOUSE first. There is a huge list of things your government and your corporations are doing AT THIS MOMENT, that you CAN change. Chinas government is not accountable to you. Do not blame the slave, blame the American corporations that force slave like conditions.

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Nun needs a refresher course in Buddhism 101
Posted by: Roger Király on Apr 1, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I fear that by writing that I may never be granted another Chinese visa allowing me to travel to Tibet. As a Buddhist, it is too difficult to imagine never again seeing the sacred places and images in Tibet that have so inspired my spiritual practice."

I find this comment by a Buddhist nun very strange. One of the first teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha, called the Four Noble Truths, clearly states that "attachment" is one of the root causes of suffering in this world. Does a Buddhist really need the existence of "sacred places and images" to "be" a Buddhist? Does being a Buddhist require the existence of (and reverent attachment to) the Dalai Lama? Do we need "Red Hats" and "Yellow Hats"? Is the only valid form of sacred meditation done in a monk's or nun’s robe and with a shaved head?

That being said, I certainly support any effort to put pressure on China—pressure that could compel that country to recognize the sovereignty of Tibet and to restore the Tibetan people's political and religious rights. At the same time, I realize that it is highly unlikely that China will change its repressive policies in Tibet.

And most Americans are probably too attached to their desire to buy cheap crap at Wal-Mart for there to be a groundswell of political outrage that would put pressure on our politicians to change this country’s stance towards China. Of course, these same politicians have their own reasons for remaining friendly to China......

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» She's a NUN - end of story! Posted by: Cathyc
» Expedient Means Posted by: sofla100
Thank you for speaking up...
Posted by: dave1616 on Apr 1, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please see www.discussrace.com

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Rhetorical question
Posted by: willymack on Apr 1, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Will freedom loving countries stand up to China?" For our part, the answer is "HELL NO". Our nation is no longer freedom loving (having long surrendered our freedoms to crooks and liars) or in a position to antagonize our main creditor. I think we should intentionally default on our debt to China and dare them to call it in, but who in our country has the guts to do that? China has us exactly where they want us, having outdone the neocons by an order of magnitude.

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» Defaulting on those loans Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Defaulting on those loans Posted by: willymack
What support will the people of Tibet get?
Posted by: harryf200 on Apr 1, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Probably none if the large national governments see no advantage for them in doing so. Sad but true, just as many other peoples deserving of help have been ignored because it did not suit the interests of those who could have helped. There is no real ethical standards in international politics. There may be something in finding common cause and mutual interests, but there is never any selfless sacrifice.

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Phony Olympics
Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 1, 2008 10:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The athletes are not amateur, the goal is not peace and understanding, the games and organization are for-profit and it is all highly political.

Any questions?

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Setting the Record Straight!
Posted by: MLMrev on Apr 1, 2008 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Revolution Newspaper has some great coverage of this issue this week...clarifying the real oppression of Tibetans, while exposing the Chinese as Capitalist exploiters:

The Protests in Tibet and the Discontent Below, by Li Onesto

and more of a "history piece":
Tibet: From Brutal Theocracy to Socialist Liberation to Capitalist Nightmare

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freedom-loving countries?!
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Apr 1, 2008 11:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are there any freedom-loving countries? certainly, you cannot mean the united states!

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It's all about slave labor vs. fair trade, i.e. empire vs. republic.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 1, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few points here:

1) Tibet is on an ocean of oil:

"Chinese researchers have discovered massive new gas and oil deposits totaling an estimated 4 billion to 5.4 billion tons in Tibet in southwestern China, the newspaper China Daily reported. The estimates, though tentative, will likely aid China's attempts to increase foreign interest and investment in its western regions, which in turn will strengthen Beijing's control across the country.

That's one of the main reasons China will never leave Tibet. They should allow a large degree of democratic autonomy for the Tibetans - but the reality is that Tibet is to China as Palestine is to Israel. Two-state solutions are not plausible for either region, and reconciliation along the Irish and South African models is the only hope for lasting peace.

2) China is the #1 manufacturer of U.S. disposable consumer products and their cheap slave labor factories are essential to the business models of many U.S. corporations, from Walmart on down. This trend has made billionaires galore in the United States - money they got by cutting U.S. manufacturing jobs. $30,000 might be the yearly salary of a U.S. blue-collar worker - in China that would get you about 30 employees. 50 to 75 cents an hour vs. $15 an hour. That's why everyone on the Forbes 400 is now a billionaire.

This is another reason why the U.S. will not make a big fuss over China's treatment of the Tibetan people, any more than the U.S. government makes a big fuss over, say, Israel's settlement program in the West Bank, which is actually very similar to China's settlement program in Tibet. This policy is supported by the highest levels of the U.S. government as well as by Wall Street, Britain, France, etc. That's why China was granted "most-favored-nation" trading status. Clinton and Bush both backed China's status. Human rights? Slave labor? Not an issue.

Then, there is the pesky fact that China holds $1 trillion in U.S. debt, and if they decided to cash it all in for euros they'd send the dollar the way of the Argentinian peso.

3) Of all the world's nations, we have the largest percentage of our population in prison. We have 5% of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners. Does that sound like "freedom-loving"?

The author appeals to the refugee issue: "It is tragic to me how many of these Tibetans have never been able to step foot in their homeland while I have enjoyed two visits to Tibet over the years. Imagine what it is like never to have your own home. To always be a visitor, a refugee without the seeming stability and familiarity of your own land and culture. - but look - the U.S. has created 4-5 million refugees in Iraq, and doesn't want Palestinian refugees to return to Israel.

It is nice to see Nancy Pelosi telling China off, but that's mostly aimed at trying to shame the Chinese into not killing Tibetans. The Chinese, on the other hand, seem worried that this all might set off anti-government protests unrelated to Tibet - as the Chinese people themselves are getting fed up with the rampant environmental pollution, the corrupt communist local bosses and their fat-cat capitalist friends, and the slave labor factories. The anger of the Chinese people is probably what the Chinese government is most worried about, not Tibet.

To summarize, if you want to help Tibet (and not just Tibet), start working for the anti-globalization, pro-fair trade movement.

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» To summarize... Posted by: Cathyc
How hard is it to read labels?
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 1, 2008 11:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last year, I began a personal boycott against Red China by reading labels on EVERYTHING -- food, clothes, whatever.

If the label says "Made in China," no matter how cheap, I put the Commie product down and keep on shopping.

Easiest thing I've ever done and it feels good, too!

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» YAY!!! Posted by: harryf200
» "Made in China," sadly unavoidable Posted by: stilldreaming
Say no more
Posted by: Cathyc on Apr 1, 2008 4:04 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I am an American nun in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition"

Enough said.

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» ??? What do you mean ??? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Say no more Posted by: january37
» Is there something wrong? Posted by: Cathyc
» go tell that to the pope Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 1, 2008 5:13 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA


Direct Democracy

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» Free America Posted by: Cathyc
Yankee, go home!
Posted by: Cathyc on Apr 1, 2008 5:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Who are the brave among these people who can stop worshiping money and power over basic human values?"


She might as well be talking about Americans.

Yankee, go home!

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Chinese government and olympic organisation
Posted by: wisegalah on Apr 1, 2008 6:28 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A great pair.
Both corrupt beyond redemption.
Both need to be disbanded and a new start made.
The chinese government, all powerful, corrupt to its very core, bullying, murderous and determined to retain power over the dead bodies of any opposition.
The olympic organisation. An organisation with delusions of power. I an astonishtd when sovereign, elected governments meet the demands of this corrupt private sporting club. This happened here during the Sydney Olympics when the federal and state governments fell over themselves to meet the demands and conditions set by the olympic committee. Remember that the organisation has been set up largely be a stunted, egotistic fascist called Samaranch who has been desperate to ensure that his miserable life is remembered. He would fit in perfectly in Beijing as he did with Franco.

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What about Palestine?
Posted by: chlamor on Apr 1, 2008 8:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A reading of Tibet’s history suggests a somewhat different picture. “Religious conflict was commonplace in old Tibet,” writes one western Buddhist practitioner. “History belies the Shangri-La image of Tibetan lamas and their followers living together in mutual tolerance and nonviolent goodwill. Indeed, the situation was quite different. Old Tibet was much more like Europe during the religious wars of the Counterreformation.” In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops. Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet. Here is a historical irony: the first Dalai Lama was installed by a Chinese army.

...

Religions have had a close relationship not only with violence but with economic exploitation. Indeed, it is often the economic exploitation that necessitates the violence. Such was the case with the Tibetan theocracy. Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into manorial estates worked by serfs. These estates were owned by two social groups: the rich secular landlords and the rich theocratic lamas. Even a writer sympathetic to the old order allows that “a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches.” Much of the wealth was accumulated “through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.”

...

The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.

The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation--including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation--were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.” Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God” in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.

...

LINK

I'm sorry, but I can't get that upset over the Tibetans being disgruntled about the "cultural genocide" going on when the whole world has been watching the genocide of the Palestinian people who are forced to live in deprivation in walled settlements on their own land.

By the way, Chinese television has the guts to show the world what went on in Lhasa and the body of the little baby burned to death in the conflagration set by dissidents.

Who exactly are those "Free Nations?" Why is it those same nations always seem to have the most weapons?

Smells like the doctrine of "humanitarian intervention"- We know how that works.

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 1, 2008 8:12 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Join the Billion Beaver March

Shoot Bush on May 1st

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Power and Control, and the Smell of Money!
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 1, 2008 8:30 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's irrelevent to keep arguing about what Tibetan society was like 50 or 60 years ago, before the Chinese invasion. The world has changed tremendously since that time. The Dalai Lama himself now wants free and democratic elections and a government in Tibet where church and state are divided. He just wants the Tibetan people to be able to practice their own religion in peace. So, why does China have such a problem with that? Think about it. China is controlled and dominated by the "Chinese Community Party." It's a group that has a monopoly on power and is easily threatened by any organization or group that won't swear allegiance to the party or have party cadres as its leaders. Therefore, this is all about power and control. China wants it and the Dalai Lama says giving it all up will mean no more religious freedom. And, he is right, we all know what happened to Falun Gong in China and that all religious groups must be recognized and approved of by the Party. Now, as for the USA boycotting the Olympics, we all know the problem there. The USA is in deep debt to China and USA commerical ties with her run into the billions and even trillions of dollars. America's respect for human rights and even her fight against "terrorism" all stops when the strongest scent in the room is the smell of money. And, that is what this is all about.

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» Falun Gong? Posted by: herbal
Theocracy; His Holiness? The other side of the story.
Posted by: herbal on Apr 2, 2008 1:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is out of character for Americans to advocate reinstitution of theocracy in Tibet. It is tragic to witness some of the same progressives who diss the excessive militance of the Israel theocracy to fail to be consistent when it comes to Tibet.

There has been a phenomenon of historical revisionism by the Tibetan diaspora in Dharamsala that has been taken in by Hollywood that bears no resemblance to Tibetan history as found in old Encyclopedias. Please read. Tibet has been a suzerainty of China for over 700 years! All Tibetophiles need to read pre-Mao accounts of Tibet and quickly find that it is not, nor has it ever been a Shangri La.

The next text for readers has been written in Tibet's modern setting. Although moderately historically unaware, Tibet, Abode of the Gods; Pearl of the Motherland was written by journalist, Barbara Erickson, Ph.D, 1997. She traveled and lived in Tibet, unlike the author who quotes from hearsay in the article above, and gives an insightful balanced and fact filled view of Tibet and its peasant common people, not just the old aristicracy and eclessiastics or exiles.

Americans and Europeans are under educated and do not read the history of Tibet, Kham and Ando. They do not appreciate that Mao's Red Army ended abject feudalism. The invasion was not by 'Chinese' in 1950-56, the Chinese Kuomingtang were already there and the Emperor's police before. The 'invasion' was by the Red Army that ended feudal slavery; changing the old system beginning with land reform.

The Dali Lama system was initiated by the Chinese emperor Shunshi of Qing Dynasty, in 1653. Dali Lama-as-temporal-leader was a Chinese invention, not religious Tibetan tradition. Western people do not know; they believe the propaganda of Tenzin Gyatso, the Pope of the East. Tenzin Gyatso should be addressed in his personal name when he speaks of independnece because he tells the world that he has no political ambitions. He proves that he does have political ambitions by assuming a spokesman's role in political issues. How is a rational person to believe the he has no ambition to be temporal leader if he is the leader of the exile government and constantly visiting heads of state in foreign countries for years and decades? He lives a life of jet set luxury while his people suffer in Lhasa?? Why is such a ‘selfless’ person not with his people making peace like Gandhi's example in India?

Say no to theocracy. Say no to reintroduction of Tibetan feudalism and conscription of children into monastic religion. And remember the unrest began with incited monks burning out Han Chinese merchants; acts of violence. Historically Tibetan Lamas have not been pacifists; but participated in war, murder and civil wars at times in the past.

Yes, China is no angel, but the other side of the story bears telling and listening. The real issue is one of indigenous rights all over the world. We can begin by addressing the real genocide of the American Indians and attend to our own sins first.

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Theocracy; His Holiness? The other side of the story.
Posted by: herbal on Apr 2, 2008 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is out of character for Americans to advocate reinstitution of theocracy in Tibet. It is tragic to witness some of the same progressives who diss the excessive militance of the Israel theocracy to fail to be consistent when it comes to Tibet.

There has been a phenomenon of historical revisionism by the Tibetan diaspora in Dharamsala that has been taken in by Hollywood that bears no resemblance to Tibetan history as found in old Encyclopedias. Please read. Tibet has been a suzerainty of China for over 700 years! All Tibetophiles need to read pre-Mao accounts of Tibet and quickly find that it is not, nor has it ever been a Shangri La.

The next text for readers has been written in Tibet's modern setting. Although moderately historically unaware, Tibet, Abode of the Gods; Pearl of the Motherland was written by journalist, Barbara Erickson, Ph.D, 1997. She traveled and lived in Tibet, unlike the author who quotes from hearsay in the article above, and gives an insightful balanced and fact filled view of Tibet and its peasant common people, not just the old aristicracy and eclessiastics or exiles.

Americans and Europeans are under educated and do not read the history of Tibet, Kham and Ando. They do not appreciate that Mao's Red Army ended abject feudalism. The invasion was not by 'Chinese' in 1950-56, the Chinese Kuomingtang were already there and the Emperor's police before. The 'invasion' was by the Red Army that ended feudal slavery; changing the old system beginning with land reform.

The Dali Lama system was initiated by the Chinese emperor Shunshi of Qing Dynasty, in 1653. Dali Lama-as-temporal-leader was a Chinese invention, not religious Tibetan tradition. Western people do not know; they believe the propaganda of Tenzin Gyatso, the Pope of the East. Tenzin Gyatso should be addressed in his personal name when he speaks of independnece because he tells the world that he has no political ambitions. He proves that he does have political ambitions by assuming a spokesman's role in political issues. How is a rational person to believe the he has no ambition to be temporal leader if he is the leader of the exile government and constantly visiting heads of state in foreign countries for years and decades? He lives a life of jet set luxury while his people suffer in Lhasa?? Why is such a ‘selfless’ person not with his people making peace like Gandhi's example in India?

Say no to theocracy. Say no to reintroduction of Tibetan feudalism and conscription of children into monastic religion. And remember the unrest began with incited monks burning out Han Chinese merchants; acts of violence. Historically Tibetan Lamas have not been pacifists; but participated in war, murder and civil wars at times in the past.

Yes, China is no angel, but the other side of the story bears telling and listening. The real issue is one of indigenous rights all over the world. We can begin by addressing the real genocide of the American Indians and attend to our own sins first.

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From Michael Parenti's Political Archive: Includes CIA
Posted by: herbal on Apr 2, 2008 2:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Over the centuries the Tibetan lords and lamas had seen Chinese come and go, and had enjoyed good relations with Generalissimo Chiang Kaishek and his reactionary Kuomintang rule in China.26 The approval of the Kuomintang government was needed to validate the choice of the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama. When the current 14th Dalai Lama was first installed in Lhasa, it was with an armed escort of Chinese troops and an attending Chinese minister, in accordance with centuries-old tradition. What upset the Tibetan lords and lamas in the early 1950s was that these latest Chinese were Communists. It would be only a matter of time, they feared, before the Communists started imposing their collectivist egalitarian schemes upon Tibet.

The issue was joined in 1956-57, when armed Tibetan bands ambushed convoys of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army. The uprising received extensive assistance from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), including military training, support camps in Nepal, and numerous airlifts.27 Meanwhile in the United States, the American Society for a Free Asia, a CIA-financed front, energetically publicized the cause of Tibetan resistance, with the Dalai Lama’s eldest brother, Thubtan Norbu, playing an active role in that organization. The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, Gyalo Thondup, established an intelligence operation with the CIA as early as 1951. He later upgraded it into a CIA-trained guerrilla unit whose recruits parachuted back into Tibet.28

Many Tibetan commandos and agents whom the CIA dropped into the country were chiefs of aristocratic clans or the sons of chiefs. Ninety percent of them were never heard from again, according to a report from the CIA itself, meaning they were most likely captured and killed.29 “Many lamas and lay members of the elite and much of the Tibetan army joined the uprising, but in the main the populace did not, assuring its failure,” writes Hugh Deane.30 In their book on Tibet, Ginsburg and Mathos reach a similar conclusion: “As far as can be ascertained, the great bulk of the common people of Lhasa and of the adjoining countryside failed to join in the fighting against the Chinese both when it first began and as it progressed.”31 Eventually the resistance crumbled."

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you guys are duped
Posted by: gsolti on Apr 2, 2008 10:42 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a simple search reveals that Tibet is a problem created by UK and USA to destabilize China.
the originally 1959 riot was organized and paid for by CIA. there is a documentary on youtube by BBC.
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CIA has been paying Dalai and his clique afterwards, the documents of which are posted on state department website
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Many organizations supporting tibet independence are paid by National Endowment of Democracy, a great name, but if you do a little digging, it is easy to find out what it really is.
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someone like Dalai because he received Noble Peace Prize, but a little digging will show you the Noble Prize he received is purely a political statement. the Nobel prize committee chair openly said the reason Dalai was chosen was because the what happened in Beijing in 1989, not because what Dalai did.
it is also not difficult to find out what kind of society it really was before Chinese Communist Party ruled Tibet. just check out some books by Melvin Goldstein.
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Ask yourself if Gosolti is right by linking up. Read!
Posted by: herbal on Apr 3, 2008 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, it is first important to exorcise the historical misconnceptions that have been promoted in the glamorization process here. Now it is important to point out that there is little or no continuity between the glamorization by the diaspora of mostly self-exiled Tibetans and the Tibetans who stayed behind, including the absentee leader. If anyone could do the homework of reading outside of pop media, Barbara Erickson vividly points out the idealism that engulfs the Daramsala Tibetans, who dream of an eco-village kind of restructuring of Tibet to achieve a Tibet that bears little resemblance of former Tibet. She aptly points out the divergence from tradition that is proposed to be imposed on the left behind people by the new installation of the Homecomers. No one talks, these days about these potential conflicts. Erickson also discusses the oft promoted criticism of China's effect on the environment in Tibet. She points out that China may have a net overall more benign effect on the environment than the current Tibetan population as poaching is held in check by the central Chinese government. Non-exile Tibetans have little regard for the environment and commonly violate the doctrine of not killing (animals), saving atonement for later.

Of course, having been in most provinces in China, I know that whole forests have been stolen, tree by tree, by the local people in spite of everything the provincial and federal government could do to enforce conservation law. The central government simply is not large or powerful enough to be totalitarian.

But the replacement of an imperfect national government by reestablishment of a theocrat is patently absurd by American democratic ideals. My argument about American Indians is that they are not in the past but a continuing witness to our ongoing at-home genocide and we had better take care of our own house first before continuing our tired old and destructive pattern of imperialism in yet another a place in the world. Please read the Parenti piece addressed above as well as Gosolti comment. The CIA has been exposed as having intervened with incitement and funding 'exile government' in the 1980's revolts (Parenti, et al). One thing to remember is that the CIA and State Dept. are involved in most every country in the world with the mission to destabilize governments, pitting one faction, religion or tribe against another; guaranteeing exploitable chaos. Angola, Lebanon, Palestine (Hamas vs Fatah), Nigeria, former CIS and Iraq are all cases in point. Its the old English colonial strategy. We must always be very cautious to not take things at face value.

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China behind our curve?
Posted by: herbal on Apr 3, 2008 1:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(I really appreciate 'sanity''s intelligent willingness to listen and respond in a sincere way.)

http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/~wtv/tibet/article/art4.html

My reading of Melvyn Goldstein is that the CIA has been involved with the Dharamsala 'government-in-exile' since the 50s, during the late 80's clashes and the charges from China now are that the Dali is the agitator along with Taiwan. So it is not much of a leap of faith to know that the US CIA is behind the scenes to incite violence in the streets of Lhasa; beginning with the arson of the Han shops. The Dali, Tenzin Gyatso, is a very astute political activist. All his disclaimers of political ambitions are highly questionable. Theocracy is on the table. China cannot entertain theocracy any more than USA. Western activists are way off base entertaining the thought that somehow theocracy in Tibet is any more acceptable than in Israel or in US (religious right and Christian Zionism; Hagee, Clinton, Dobson, Lieberman, etc.). We either believe in separation of church and state or we don't. To try to separate good theocracy or bad is a futile exercise in relativism and an afront to our Bill of Rights and human rights world wide. We must focus on the underlying causes of human rights violations, big picture, in order to ever be effective in promoting world peace. Henry Kissinger has shown the Nobel Peace Prize to be irrelevant except as an image builder. Tenzin Gyatso needs to be evaluated as a human being, not a fugurehead of an ancient spotted tradition. An old axiom among the human potential activists when asked, Wow, how do you just interact so calmly when in the presence of famous people?". The Answer, "When you are looking up (at fame) , you are looking down" (at commoners). Don't demean the human worth as we are all equal in the eyes of God/Spirit and fallable.

We also need to honor the wishes of the common, non-exile and non-ecclesiastical people of Tibet (former serfs) and they are forgotten in the game.

www.state.gov/www/about_state/history/vol_xxx/337_343.html

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» RE: China behind our curve? Posted by: sanity
Deflection?
Posted by: herbal on Apr 3, 2008 11:31 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To ask one to speculate how the Tibetans would choose to rule themselves is like asking how Washington DC residents would rule themselves in a vacuum if granted sovereignty from Congress; or Hawaii or the South to rise again by granting them retroactive independence. Tibet has been a suzerainty of China for more than 700 years. By comparison Hawaii was seized by USA a far shorter time past. Perhaps your question about independence-for-the-asking is not unreasonable, but it is certainly out of the scope of normal political discourse today. I personally think nationalism has had its day. Even in Tibet.

Let me ask one question. Who would have the power to guarantee protection of the Tibetan Hui minority and the former non-ecclesiastical former serf Tibetans who have remained? In spite of Tenzin's appeals for peace, the Tibetan ecclesiastics have continued their violence and arson. I would suggest that Tibet would apply to reinstate another system of suzerainty for protection from foreign invasion and domestic peacekeeping like in the 16th century. You are dealing with the history of a fierce parochial intolerance of outsiders and anyone who does not share exact theological conformance. Tibet has an old history of civil war between the various lineages of Buddhism (that are actually quite far from the Buddhism of other countries on account of extensive synchrotism with Hinduism and native animism).

Is the Lama Tenzin going to be able to be truly non-partisan and deal fairly with, say, the Golpa lineage any better than the Sunnis dealt with Shiites in pre-war Iraq? There are some old scores to be settled even among ethnic Tibetans. The deflection, I think is yours for evading the question of theocracy as a viable system in civilization. Ethnic cleansing is on the agenda of the ecclesiatics in Tibet today. How is theocracy in Tibet any more desirable than corporatist far right religion in Bush's America?

http://www.cctv.com/english/index.shtml View the Chinese perspective here on their English language TV channel.

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» RE: Deflection? Posted by: sanity
» More... Posted by: herbal
» Complete propaganda and lies Posted by: ladmeaux
Prof. Goldstein final word?
Posted by: herbal on Apr 5, 2008 1:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/~wtv/tibet/article/art4.html

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saddened by comments here
Posted by: 1234 on Apr 5, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am saddened by the comments here because I feel like there is a great disrespect and paternalism towards the Tibetan people.

It's not difficult to see that the Tibetan people want freedom - why else would they take such incredible risks to fight for it?

Does the fact that Saddam Hussein committed egregious acts against his people justify the American occupation of Iraq? NO

Does the fact that previous Tibetan leaders committed egregious acts against their people justify the occupation of Tibet by China? NO

Free Tibet.

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mjabelle above has probing questions....
Posted by: herbal on Apr 8, 2008 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
mjabelle above has probing questions that deserve a response.

First an historical clarification.
From the 11th Ed. Of Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911: The history of Chinese presence and ‘rule’ in China dates certainly before the 18th century, although it is not lineal nor a circumspect one. The Kublai Khan conquered tibet in about 1253, over 700 years ago. The Mongols went on to conquer China and install their lineage as emperors in China and from this seat of power the Kublai invested Phagspa with sovereign power over all of Tibet including Tibet proper, Kham and Ando (Eastern Tibet, now roughly Yunnan and Sichuan). From that time the Sikya-pa lamas (from the Sikya monastery) became the universal rulers of Tibet. From there, ther is a continuous thread of Chinese emperors granting and appropriating power to one or another of Buddhist lineages or sects until the Mings succeeded the Khans who recognized 8 of the principle monasteries. A Mongol emperor, Altan, invited Sodnam rGyamtso, in 1576, to visit. Altan then was the first to confer the title Vraj Dali Lama on Sodnam. Then were battles between Gushri Khan and the first Manchu emperor whereupon both, in turn, confered temporal power of all Tibet. The point is that China in one form or another held Tibet as a protectorate. Tibetan Buddhism had a profound influence on China and was embraced by many Chinese leaders over the centuries. Tibet was close to China than any other country. China repulsed many invaders over the years from Sikkhim, Nepal, India, the Ghurkas and finally Britain in 1906 and later and then the CIA trained exile troops of the Dali Lama in 1959 and possibly the 1980’s.


Next is a question of legitimacy and a point of CIA/Dali intrigue:

What is clear is that not all Tibetan Buddhists accept the Dalai Lama as their theological and spiritual mentor. Though he is referred to as the “spiritual leader of Tibet,” many see this title as little more than a formality. It does not give him authority over the four religious schools of Tibet other than his own, “just as calling the U.S. president the ‘leader of the free world’ gives him no role in governing France or Germany.”62

Many ordinary Tibetans want the Dalai Lama back in their country, but it appears that relatively few want a return to the social order he represented. A 1999 story in the Washington Post notes that the Dalai Lama continues to be revered in Tibet, but
. . . few Tibetans would welcome a return of the corrupt aristocratic clans that fled with him in 1959 and that comprise the bulk of his advisers. Many Tibetan farmers, for example, have no interest in surrendering the land they gained during China’s land reform to the clans. Tibet’s former slaves say they, too, don’t want their former masters to return to power. “I’ve already lived that life once before,” said Wangchuk, a 67-year-old former slave who was wearing his best clothes for his yearly pilgrimage to Shigatse, one of the holiest sites of Tibetan Buddhism. He said he worshipped the Dalai Lama, but added, “I may not be free under Chinese communism, but I am better off than when I was a slave.”

It might be said that we denizens of the modern secular world cannot grasp the equations of happiness and pain, contentment and custom, that characterize more traditionally spiritual societies. This is probably true, and it may explain why some of us idealize such societies. But still, a gouged eye is a gouged eye; a flogging is a flogging; and the grinding exploitation of serfs and slaves is a brutal class injustice whatever its cultural wrapping. There is a difference between a spiritual bond and human bondage, even when both exist side by side.

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More...
Posted by: herbal on Apr 8, 2008 12:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In November 2005 the Dalai Lama spoke at Stanford University on “The Heart of Nonviolence,” but stopped short of a blanket condemnation of all violence. Violent actions that are committed in order to reduce future suffering are not to be condemned, he said, citing World War II as an example of a worthy effort to protect democracy. What of the four years of carnage and mass destruction in Iraq, a war condemned by most of the world—even by a conservative pope--as a blatant violation of international law and a crime against humanity? The Dalai Lama was undecided: “The Iraq war—it’s too early to say, right or wrong.”53 Earlier he had voiced support for the U.S. military intervention against Yugoslavia and, later on, the U.S. military intervention into Afghanistan.54

Indian press on Tibet riots: http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20080411250713100.htm

The women interviewed by Lewis recounted stories of their grandmothers’ ordeals with monks who used them as “wisdom consorts.” By sleeping with the monks, the grandmothers were told, they gained “the means to enlightenment” -- after all, the Buddha himself had to be with a woman to reach enlightenment.

This for Nancy Pelosi and her female sensitivities and sympathy for the Dali: “The women also mentioned the “rampant” sex that the supposedly spiritual and abstemious monks practiced with each other in the Gelugpa sect. The women who were mothers spoke bitterly about the monastery’s confiscation of their young boys in Tibet. They claimed that when a boy cried for his mother, he would be told “Why do you cry for her, she gave you up--she's just a woman.”

How can American women not look at the ethnological and historical record and give due credit to the Maoists for a remarkable liberation of women in China and Tibet. The banning of arranged marriages, for example, have been part of the ‘cultural genocide’in Tibet as well as ending the conscription of young boys into monasteries.

The Dali Lama has been made into a celebrity. He has been supported with CIA funding from 1956 to at least 1972. He is the head of what even India refers to as the Tibet’s Government-in-Exile. The compatriots in exile are many, there are estimates of 100,000. The aristocracy that fled with Tenzin Gyatso on 1956 were from a class of less than 2% of the population. Many must be ecclesiatics. If there were to be a free election, there are inherent risks that have much to do with the very idea of self-determination. Could the Cuban refugees of Florida, the exiled elite, fairly stage free elections in Cuba?

The yoke of theocracy, as Parenti tells us, is not welcome back in Tibet by the Left-Behind. Where does the sentiment that the Dali Lama has the legitimacy to represent the re-establishement of an Exile government in Tibet come from? There is less reason to think that the Exile-Government is able to meet the needs and desires of the liberated, land reformed, former peasant-serf classes of the vast majority of the people, than the Provincial Communist Party. Beside the obvious conflicts of interest, corruption and infighting that have been going on in Dharamsala, the Dali has exiled himself 52 long years ago. He knows his wines better than Tibet at this point.

All this is a tremendous distraction from the attention we should be giving the sad state of affairs in our own country; the real genocide and torture that the USA is visiting on many many countries entering our Empire.

Parenti addresses the very real abuses by the Chinese of the environment of the Chinese people. These issues deserve much more foreign pressure than the questionable politics of a religious leader.

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» Women's rights in Tibet Posted by: herbal
here are the dots......
Posted by: denk on Apr 8, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
connect the dots

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» Click to see references. Posted by: herbal