COMMENTS: 137
The Iraq War Is Killing Our Economy
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With just the amount of the Iraq budget of 2007, $138 billion, the government could instead have provided Medicaid-level health insurance for all 45 million Americans who are uninsured. What's more, we could have added 30,000 elementary and secondary schoolteachers and built 400 schools in which they could teach. And we could have provided basic home weatherization for about 1.6 million existing homes, reducing energy consumption in these homes by 30 percent.
But the economic consequences of Iraq run even deeper than the squandered opportunities for vital public investments. Spending on Iraq is also a job killer. Every $1 billion spent on a combination of education, healthcare, energy conservation and infrastructure investments creates between 50 and 100 percent more jobs than the same money going to Iraq. Taking the 2007 Iraq budget of $138 billion, this means that upward of 1 million jobs were lost because the Bush Administration chose the Iraq sinkhole over public investment.
Recognizing these costs of the Iraq War is even more crucial now that the economy is facing recession. While a recession is probably unavoidable, its length and severity will depend on the effectiveness of the government's stimulus initiatives. By a wide margin, the most effective stimulus is to expand public investment projects, especially at the state and local levels. The least effective fiscal stimulus is the one crafted by the Bush Administration and Congress--mostly to just send out rebate checks to all taxpayers. This is because a high proportion of the new spending encouraged by the rebates will purchase imports rather than financing new jobs in the United States, whereas public investment would concentrate job expansion within the country. Combining this Bush stimulus initiative with the ongoing spending on Iraq will only deepen the severity of the recession.
Is Militarism Necessary for Prosperity?
The government spent an estimated $572 billion on the military in 2007. This amounts to about $1,800 for every resident of the country. That's more than the combined GDPs of Sweden and Thailand, and eight times federal spending on education.
The level of military spending has risen dramatically since 2001, with the increases beginning even before 9/11. As a share of GDP, the military budget rose from 3 percent to 4.4 percent during the first seven years of the Bush presidency. At the current size of the economy, a difference between a military budget at 4.4 rather than 3 percent of GDP amounts to $134 billion.
The largest increases in the military budget during the Bush presidency have been associated with the Iraq War. Indeed, the $138 billion spent on Iraq in 2007 was basically equal to the total increase in military spending that caused the military budget to rise to 4.4 percent of GDP. It is often argued that the military budget is a cornerstone of the economy--that the Pentagon is a major underwriter of important technical innovations as well as a source of millions of decent jobs. At one level these claims are true. When the government spends upward of $600 billion per year of taxpayers' money on anything, it cannot help but generate millions of jobs. Similarly, when it spends a large share of that budget on maintaining and strengthening the most powerful military force in the history of the world, this cannot fail to encourage technical innovations that are somehow connected to the instruments of warfare.
Yet it is also true that channeling hundreds of billions of dollars into areas such as renewable energy and mass transportation would create a hothouse environment supporting new technologies. For example, utilities in Arizona and Nevada are developing plans to build "concentrated" solar power plants, which use the sun to heat a liquid that can drive a turbine. It is estimated that this technology, operating on a large scale, could drive down the costs of solar electricity dramatically, from its current level of about $4 per watt to between $2.50 and $3 per watt in the sunniest regions of the country. At these prices, solar electricity becomes much cheaper than oil-driven power and within range of coal. These and related technologies could advance much more rapidly toward cost competitiveness with coal, oil and nuclear power if they were to receive even a fraction of the subsidies that now support weapons development (as well as the oil industry).
Swords, Plowshares and Jobs
How does it happen that government spending devoted to healthcare, education, environmental sustainability and infrastructure can generate up to twice as many jobs per dollar as spending on militarism?
Three factors play a role in determining the overall job effects of any target of government spending. Let's compare the construction of Camp Victory, the main US military base on the western outskirts of Baghdad, with weatherizing existing homes in New England to increase their energy efficiency. The first factor to consider is the jobs that get created directly by each project. The second is the job creation in the industries that supply products for building the camp or weatherizing the homes. These would include the steel, concrete, weapons and telecommunications industries for building Camp Victory; and lumber, insulation and trucking industries for home weatherization. Finally, new jobs will result when people who are paid to build Camp Victory or weatherize a house spend the money they have earned--a weapons engineer at Camp Victory buying a lawnmower during his vacation leave at home or a construction worker in New England buying a new car.
How does one spending target create more jobs for a given amount of dollars spent? Still considering Camp Victory construction versus New England home weatherization, there are, again, three factors:
1. More jobs but lower-paying jobs. Average pay is lower in the construction industry working on home weatherization in New England than in mounting weapons installations at Camp Victory. So a given pool of money is divided among more employed people.
2. More spending on people, less on machines and supplies. In weatherizing a home, the machinery and supplies costs are relatively low, while the need for construction workers is high. Building a high-tech military base in Baghdad entails enormous investments in steel and sophisticated electronic equipment and relatively less spending for people on the job.
3. More money stays within the US economy. We roughly estimate that US military personnel spend only 43 percent of their income on domestic goods and services, while the overall population spends an average of 83 percent of their income on domestic products and 17 percent on imports.
It is important to know which of these three factors is relatively more important in generating the overall increase in jobs. In particular, it would not necessarily be a favorable development if the overall increase in employment opportunities is mainly just a byproduct of creating lots of low-paying jobs.
In fact, if we were simply to send a rebate to taxpayers for the full amount of the Iraq War budget--i.e., a measure similar to Bush's current stimulus plan--the increased spending on personal consumption would produce lots of what are now bad jobs, in areas such as retail, hotels, restaurants and personal services. Because of this, a transfer of funds from the military to tax rebates and personal consumption increases would produce a 25 percent increase in employment but an 11 percent decline in overall wages and benefits paid to working people.
The opposite is true with education as the spending target. Here, both the total number of jobs created and the average pay are higher than with the military. It's less clear-cut when it comes to healthcare, energy conservation and infrastructure investments. More jobs will be created than with military spending, and the total amount of wages and benefits going to workers will also be significantly higher than with military spending. But the average pay for a healthcare worker or those engaged in mass transit or construction is lower than in the military.
Is it better for overall economic welfare to generate more jobs, even if average wages and benefits are lower? There isn't a single correct answer to this question. It depends on the size of these differences: how many low-paying jobs are being generated, and how bad are these jobs? How many high-quality jobs would be sacrificed through a transition out of the military, where the average pay is relatively high? Indeed, by completely shutting off Iraq War-related spending and transferring the money in equal shares to education, healthcare, energy conservation and infrastructure, average salaries would decline. However, the majority of new jobs created by these peaceful alternatives would command salaries above a reasonable living-wage standard of $16 an hour.
Pushing Unemployment Down
As of January there were 7.6 million people unemployed in a labor force of 154 million, producing an official unemployment rate of 4.9 percent. This was a significant increase over the 4.5 percent unemployment rate in mid-2007, and thus one important sign of a weakening economy. Unemployment is likely to keep rising as the economic slowdown continues.
In our current context, what would be the overall job effects of transferring the entire 2007 Iraq War budget of $138 billion into healthcare, education, energy conservation and infrastructure investments? If we assume that all else would remain equal in the labor market, a net increase (i.e., the total expansion of jobs in public investments minus the reduction in military jobs) in the range of 1 million jobs would therefore reduce the total number of unemployed people to around 6.6 million. The unemployment rate would fall to about 4.3 percent.
This is still an unacceptably high unemployment rate. But if the public-investment-directed spending shift out of Iraq were combined with a stimulus package of roughly the same size as the Iraq War budget--i.e., in the range of the Bush Administration's $150 billion stimulus--the overall impact would be a strong program to fight recession and create decent jobs.
In particular, through this combination of a spending shift out of Iraq and a stimulus program focused on public investment, there is a good chance that unemployment would fall below 4 percent. When unemployment fell below 4 percent in the late 1960s and late 1990s, the high demand for workers led to rising wages and benefits, in particular at the low end of the job market. Poverty fell as a result. Near full employment in the late '60s also brought better working conditions and less job discrimination against minorities.
Of course, we cannot assume that everything about the labor market would stay unchanged after a huge job expansion in healthcare, education, energy conservation and infrastructure investments, while jobs connected with the military contracted. There would no doubt be skill shortages in some areas and labor gluts in others. There would also probably be an increase in inflation that would have to be managed carefully.
These concerns are real. But it is still true that large-scale job creation within the United States is possible as an outgrowth of ending the Iraq War, reallocating the entire Iraq budget to important domestic public investment projects and fighting the recession with further increases in public investments.
What if the Iraq War budget is transferred only partially to domestic public investments? Let's assume, optimistically, that a new Administration takes serious initiatives to end the Iraq War immediately after coming into office next January. This new Administration would almost certainly not have the wherewithal to shut down operations within one year. And even if it could completely end the war within a year, the government should still commit significant funds to war reparations for the Iraqi people.
The job expansion within the United States will decline to the extent that spending of any sort continues in Iraq rather than being transferred into domestic public investments. But even if the net transfer of funds is, say, $100 billion rather than $138 billion, several hundred thousand new domestic jobs would still be created. There is also no reason that the domestic public investment expansion has to mirror the decrease in the Iraq War budget. Any stimulus program initiated over the next few months--either a Bush-style program or one focused on public investment--would entail spending beyond the current Iraq budget levels.
Public Investment and Recession
There's also a strong argument for a stimulus program that emphasizes public investment at the state and local level. State and local government revenues--which primarily finance education, healthcare, public safety and infrastructure--are always badly hit by economic downturns and will be especially strapped as a result of the current recession. State and local government revenues decline when the incomes and property values of their residents fall. Property tax revenues will fall especially sharply as a result of the collapse of housing prices. Moreover, state and local governments, unlike the federal government, cannot run deficits and are forced to maintain balanced budgets, even in a recession. This means that unless the federal government injects new revenue into the state and local budgets, spending on public investments will decline.
Deficit Reduction: The Responsible Alternative?
The federal fiscal deficit in 2007 was $244 billion. Shutting down the Iraq War and using the fiscal savings to cut the deficit would mean a 57 percent deficit reduction.
Is this the best use of the funds released by the Iraq War? Of course, the government cannot run a reckless fiscal policy, no matter how pressing the country's social and environmental needs. But a $244 billion deficit in today's economy is not reckless. It amounts to about 1.8 percent of GDP. This is slightly below the average-sized deficit between 1960 and 2006 of 1.9 percent of GDP. The largest deviation from this long-term average occurred under Ronald Reagan's presidency, when the deficit averaged 4.2 percent of GDP--i.e., more than twice as large as the current deficit as a share of the economy.
The recession and stimulus program will of course produce a large increase in the deficit. Recessions are not the time to focus on deficit reduction. But even if we allowed the deficit to double from its 2007 level--to about $500 billion--its size, as a share of GDP, would still be below the average figure for the entire Reagan presidency, including both the boom and recession years.
We would certainly need to worry about the deficit today, and even more after the recession ends, if it were persistently running at Reagan-era levels. This is because the government would soon be consuming upward of 20 percent of the total federal budget in interest payments, as it did at the end of the Reagan era. This is opposed to the 10 percent of total government spending we now pay to the Japanese and Chinese bondholders, US banks and wealthy private citizens who own the bulk of US government debt. But because the deficit has been at a reasonable level coming into the recession, the primary problem with the Treasury's fiscal stance is not the size of the deficit per se but how the money is being spent--that we are using the money for Iraq and a private consumption-led stimulus rather than public investment.
There are many good reasons government policy should now initiate major commitments to investment in the areas of healthcare, education, environmental sustainability and infrastructure. All these spending areas stand on their own merits. But moving the $138 billion spent on the Iraq War in 2007 into public investments will also increase employment, adding up to 1 million jobs. On top of this, expanding public investment spending is the single most effective tool for fighting the recession.
A great deal is at stake here. The Iraq War has been about death and destruction. Ending the war could be a first serious step toward advancing a viable program for jobs, healthcare, education and a clean-energy economy.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 18, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have another sip.
It's the same old vicious cycle. Four thousand kids get killed and instead of the half-witted Texan in the White House realizing what a terrible mistake he's made, he sends in still more kids to justify those alrerady killed. Before you know it, you've got 58,000 dead kids!
Does that sound familiar?
America is going to be suffering for years as a result of the administration of George W. Bush. You want to hear the funny thing? America is getting exactly what it deserves. When the trillion dollar shithammer finally comes crashing down, those of us who have spent years waving the red flag will be vindicated. In fact we already are.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: The Party's Over - AMEN
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: The Party's Over...Hey Tom!!
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Time for Impeachment
Posted by: jcage
» PAST time for impeachment, even
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: patfr
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: williameon on Mar 18, 2008 3:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thousand dead Kids pictures on the wall.
Kill more for Greed
Another thousand Dead Kids pictures on the wall
Sacrifice more for Greed
Three thousand Dead Kids pictures on the wall
Killed for Greed
Spatter another thousand Dead Kids Blood
On the wall
Of Greed!
All Hail!
The
Gods of WAR
(Dead Eye and The Shrub)
and
The their phony
Religion of Violence
That permeates our Society
With the stench of
Death.
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» RE: The Stench of Death is on all of the world's bankers, leaders, corporatists
Posted by: thekidde
» and don`t forget.......
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: The Stench of Death.
Posted by: Artra
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Posted by: nzo on Mar 18, 2008 3:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jeffreytaos on Mar 18, 2008 3:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:they already stole the bank
Posted by: GrannyBgood
» RE: It's Called Hetware the Neo-Nazi moronboy. He's been spreading their hate all over the Blog
Posted by: yellow
» RE: out of the war.
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: metoo on Mar 18, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have always spent too much on defense, this is nothing new, it's not like we can direct where our taxes go.
Our economic problem existed before Iraq and to deny it is foolishness.
We moved into a global economy much too fast, we didn't prepare our educational system to shift gears because they needed jobs to give away to build foreign markets, and we prioritized building markets elsewhere at a steep cost.
But that wasn't the final blow; the final blow is bad trade deals as a policy. No business or economy can amass the trade deficits we have, borrow from our trading partners too float the banks and bail us out of trouble so we can continue to buy cheap goods from them, building their economy at the cost of ours.
Who wasn't thinking? Who thought building China wasn't going to result in a larger demand for energy resources? Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays.
Today democracy is viewed as a bad system, that's the result of Bush's policies. When America can no longer afford to compete, Capitalism will be viewed by them as a bad system.
Exploiting labor will no longer be successful in the US so profits will decrease and income disparity will be regulated. Under that scenario business will be less attractive.
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» "Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays."
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Capitalism run amuck
Posted by: GrannyBgood
» We don't distinguish between "free" and "captive" markets
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Even China and India
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: "Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays."
Posted by: donl51
» RE: jobs
Posted by: donl51
» RE: jobs
Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: jobs
Posted by: metoo
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 18, 2008 4:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration: Try 'em & Fry 'em
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Mar 18, 2008 4:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downturns in the economy are part of the normal, capitalistic, business cycle. If you recall the old axiom, "guns or butter", it refers to the possible ways the government can spend money to stimulate economic growth. The government can either spend it on "guns" (implements of war) or "butter" (domestic programs, i.e., social programs, infrastructure, roads, bridges, park development, public mass transit, etc.). Since the Reagan years the trend has been to spend predominately on "guns".
A return to some semblance of a sane Keynesian economic model would help to stop the hemorrhaging and, hopefully, begin the healing. Otherwise, continuing with the classical, or Austrian, model will only dig us deeper into the abyss. Coupling the Austrian model, so revered by the late Milton Friedman, with government military action is a surefire recipe for Naomi Klein's description of "disaster economics" (as is occurring in Iraq). Hopefully it's not too late to avert the very real possibility of this model being set loose in this country (unless we're seeing the start of it beginning right now).
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» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: rimchamp77
» I'll blame health insurers
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Austrian model
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Austrian model
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Government spending isn't free market capitalism
Posted by: Constitutionalist
» RE: Government spending isn't free market capitalism
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Trazom on Mar 18, 2008 5:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The other nations without a central bank? Interestingly they are none other than the other countries defined as the Axis of Evil, Iran and North Korea. Go figure.
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» RE: Iraq didn't have a central bank
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: FSadley on Mar 18, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Health insurers wreak havoc on us that
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Health insurers wreak havoc on us that
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Bin Laden is Winning
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Bin Laden is Winning
Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» no, that was george bush that dropped the ball
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Mar 18, 2008 6:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So, FORGET McCain!
Posted by: GrannyBgood
» RE: The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: Constitutionalist
» RE: The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: B. Spoon on Mar 18, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the Invasion of Iraq is a problem that needs to be fixed, but our health insurers make our oil barons and military-industrial giants look like chump changers. Apparently health insurers are invisible to Americans, like the emperor's robes. Fixing our broken health insurance system is the single best, most important thing we need to do for our economy, our people, and our future...and appears even more (not less) so when placed next to Iraq for context. That reminds me, I neglected to mention the additional $50 billion/year (for $400 billion total and rising) we would save simply by preventably treating diabetes before eyesight, limbs and kidneys are lost...or the millions of bankruptcies, disablings, lawsuits and Americans living in terror caused by our health insurance system.
NONE of the top three presidential candidates is even pointing us in the right direction on health care, and the reason is simply money and power (theirs not ours). Please wake up, America.
Would you give $1000 each month to Al Qaeda? If you are under 65 years old, have decent health coverage and a family, you will give (on average) that much this month to health insurers to help keep our health care crises from being solved.
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» RE: Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: Lincolnfan
» RE: Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: Quannah
» Iraq and health care are both HUGE problems
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Iraq and health care are both HUGE problems
Posted by: Quannah
» To pay for health care all we need to do is cut
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Claimimg health insurer waste is costing us more BY FAR
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: PakiBoy on Mar 18, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Good Point
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
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Posted by: modeler on Mar 18, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 18, 2008 7:36 AM
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get me off this planet!
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» Kevorkian is running for office in Michigan
Posted by: Beck
» You can't be making that up
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: donl51 on Mar 18, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BillDouglas on Mar 18, 2008 8:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Japanese Senator from the largest Japanese opposition Party said 9/11 was an inside job on national television in Japan.
The European Parliament held a 9/11 truth conference last month.
Former 9/11 Commissioner, Bob Kerry, according to an Air America host who has contacts with him, is now calling for an open ended 9/11 investigation to examine all the new emerging facts about 9/11.
Even American Icons like Willie Nelson have gone public saying 9/11 was an inside job, the Oscar winning actress, Charlie Sheen, Rosie O'Donnell . . .
and now a New York Times best selling novelist who wrote an explosive new historical fiction "The Shell Game" about the White House committing terror on Americans to fool us into war with Iran, has used his corporate media appearances to point out disturbing 9/11 facts that point to 9/11 as an inside job.
Until Alternet, and The Nation, take on the fuel that is causing the bonfire of fear in Americans, 9/11 . . . the wars will not be stopped.
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» RE: There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: When does the stench of the MSM become undeniable?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: When does the stench of the MSM become undeniable?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: When does the stench of the MSM become undeniable?
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: donl51
» RE: There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: CatDad
» Who is 'us'?
Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: Who is 'us'?
Posted by: dustdevil
» Didn't we go through this with JFK?
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
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Posted by: tommy_slothrop on Mar 18, 2008 8:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's been great for the economy!
Posted by: rockpicker
» War great for the economy of the few
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: JSquercia on Mar 18, 2008 8:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Cheney will be crying
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Best Comment
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: sre on Mar 18, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Americans would care if
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 18, 2008 9:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess what I am saying is that there is such a disconnect between the uber-wealthy class and the rest of us schmucks, that we are nothing but vermin to them. It's gotten to the point where it isn't only "let them eat cake" but "let them die".
SAD
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» RE: "Let the little people die"
Posted by: mwinmag300
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Posted by: willymack on Mar 18, 2008 9:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Off-subject (or maybe not) comments.
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: Off-subject (or maybe not) comments.
Posted by: metoo
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Mar 18, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i need not point out the obvious flaws with this approach.. the economy is showing signs of fatigue simply because the war has failed to cash in the "stock options" in a timely fashion...
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Posted by: jwg on Mar 18, 2008 10:47 AM
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» RE: I agree stop the war and fund America
Posted by: aussidawg
» Hey! Wait a minute!
Posted by: rockpicker
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Posted by: solrev on Mar 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: opmoc on Mar 18, 2008 11:30 AM
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Watch the video below!
"We were told we were fighting terrorism...The real terrorism was this occupation... I threw families onto the street in Iraq only to come home and see families thrown onto the street in this country in this tragic and unnecessary foreclosure crisis... Our enemy is not 5,000 miles away: they are right here at home." -- Michael Prysner
In the must-watch video below, Iraq war veteran and ANSWER organizer Michael Prysner retells his horrifying responsibilities as an occupation soldier, and denounces the Army officers who used racism and bigotry in order to justify the oppression of the Iraqi people. Prysner's eloquent and compelling testimony cuts through the Pentagon's propaganda and exposes the truth of the Iraq occupation -- please circulate this video to your friends, family members, classmates, co-workers and listservs.
Prysner joined the U.S. Army at age 17 and in March 2003, he was deployed to northern Iraq. He remained there for 12 months. Bearing witness to the many crimes of the occupation, Prysner became a staunch opponent of the war, and in 2005 he began organizing and speaking out against it. The four-day Winter Soldier event was organized by Iraq War Veterans Against the War.
Part One, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5ZUfpxnV0
Part Two, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iTdxBECos8
from A.N.S.W.E.R
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Mar 18, 2008 11:34 AM
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Morality is Good for Business...Unbridled Greed and Immoral Foreign Policies Are Bad For Business...
Don't Tell David Rockefeller or the Bilderberg Group..!
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:01 PM
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Robert Prechter on the crash of 1999 - Part 2.
The Fed's "Influence" is "Nonexistent".
US bank crisis sparks panic in markets
Foreign investors veto Fed rescue
'New world order,' buyers seen for banks
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» yer a laugh a minute, joe
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:09 PM
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The bad news: Your pension will soon be worthless as it drowns in hyper inflation.
Carlyle Group fund collapses
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:13 PM
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Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True, we should not have gone into Iraq (IMHO), and we would be ahead deficit-wise if we hadn't, since tax revenues have been up under present tax cuts and a robust economy. But the total of our economic situation cannot be attributed to Iraq expenditures. As a percentage of GDP, this war is a bargain compared to others and the upside COULD BE tremendous (although someone who has lost a son or daughter over there might disagree). The reality is that a down cycle in the economy is inevitable, but not terminal, especially after so many months of great economic news. Once stability is returned to the markets, and speculation on oil prices corrects itself, we will be on to the next economic cycle, whatever it is.
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» Like hell
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Like truth
Posted by: mwinmag300
» RE: Like truth
Posted by: Quannah
» Look at Corporate Welfare: America Does Not Have A "Free Market" At All Now
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Look at Corporate Welfare: America Does Not Have A "Free Market" At All Now
Posted by: mwinmag300
» And talking points don't equal a family member over there
Posted by: Beck
» RE: And talking points don't equal a family member over there
Posted by: mwinmag300
» Beck, you have an astoundingly clear
Posted by: jackyD
» We talk about our under and uninsured in the same
Posted by: B. Spoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 18, 2008 1:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nor do I need another comment about how it is OK because in the long run, the war will have proved to be a bargain. As an upthread comment suggests, rhetorically, invading another nation because it is good for our economy is the road to hell.
We need to get our priorities straight. First and foremost is the health of our planet. Anything that destabilizes our climate is poison.
My local paper points out that the salmon run up the Sacramento River is not happening this year. It seems the sea could not feed the young when they returned a year or so ago. We cannot deplete our fisheries without massive human starvation as a result.
Must we wait for the event of massive starvation before we do something? Must we see our planet become a catastrophe before we do something? Are we incapable--as a people--of doing anything? As always, time will tell.
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Posted by: hooligan on Mar 18, 2008 1:36 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 18, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only real purpose for America to need or have a military today is for self-defense. All this other stuff, protecting Israel, projecting power, strategic war, is a bunch of nonsense and very dangerous. It is time to reduce our military drastically to only what is needed as a self-defense force.
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Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 18, 2008 2:29 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gonzoskismet on Mar 18, 2008 3:57 PM
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Race in the Sixties. Nasa, i.e., the Government,
spent millions of dollars developing a pen that would work in zero gravity. The pen was eventually
developed. The Russians didn't have this problem.
They spent very little because their Cosmonauts
used a PENCIL in zero gravity.
This is a Pork Barrel Government, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Vampire Government. They will suck each and every one of you completely dry to ensure their continued existence and they don't give a tinkers damn how many of you it kills, make homeless or jobless. Just as long as they survive. And, until you drive a stake through the heart of this Monster,
it will feed upon your fear, your resources and your good nature until the last flag that will ever wave for you will be over the graves of you and your loved ones. Is it too late? You tell me.
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Posted by: drfun on Mar 18, 2008 6:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are successful in using the MSM to condition us to ignore the pain and suffering going on around us as they proceed with their agenda.
You are either with us or against us, as Bu$h said, any dissenters or agitators will be considered "Enemy Combatants".
The NWO only requires a sustainable population to supply, entertain, and enforce their needs, and if you don't fit in their grand plans of things, well they don't value life as they will "Shock & Awe" to extract what they require.
Since the 80's, there has been a erosion of wealth and liberty from the middle class to the elite's. The average person blinded by self consumption and ignorant of the ruse being pulled over them.
How can people who have children, grandchildren, self professed Christians vote a republican ticket, for lower taxes, pre-emptive war based on lies, and forcing successive generations to bear the financial costs of their greedy misguided immoral policies?
The U.S. truly deserves the government it has.
New economic powers are on the horizon and are going to inflict a wrath much harsher to the U.S. than it ever imagined.
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» Are these folks the Elders of Zion?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Please! "E OF Z" was forged by Russian secret police.
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 19, 2008 1:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"You will not understand any of this unless you understand that the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01 were not the work of Islamic fanatics. It was a high tech hijacking of the US military industrial complex by a secretive cabal of maniacal sociopaths..."
Spot on! Obviously, you don't fall for the ridiculous conspiracy theory promoted by the MSM, which attempts to blame innocent Arabs for the events of 911.
It's good to know that someone is actually thinking for a change, instead of dutifully swallowing MSM propaganda.
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» I don't trust Daniel Hopsicker
Posted by: joeunix
» N900SA, N987SA, N6308F, N4410F
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: N900SA, N987SA, N6308F, N4410F!!!???
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
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Posted by: rockpicker on Mar 19, 2008 1:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say, you are the psy-ops.
You explain to us how the government's assinine portrayal of how events went down on 9/11 has even the slightest legitimacy?
Alex Cockburn, Matt Taibbi, Josh Holland, Noam Chomsky--all have belittled the 9/11 truthers. But not one has made a clear and cogent argument, supplying facts and timelines, to support the numerous inconsistencies presented by the 'official' account.
To a man, they simply denigrate, and denounce.
How profound. And to think, once, I looked up to these scoundrels, who now prefer the illusion of ego-licking safety to brutal truth.
Show 'us' your heroes reports, with sound data and unassailable 'facts', that we may be suaded and rightfully beg your forgiveness.
What have you to present us?
Hamilton and Keane?
NIST?
Popular Mechanics?
DON'T YOU FOOLS WANT ONE REAL, SERIOUS, IN-DEPTH, INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION DONE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE?
No.
You'd rather have your little egos stroked.
Truth is, we're smart enough to put two and two together, and you, apparently, are not.
We can plainly see that events have moved us past the place and time where and when something might have been done about Cheney and his little group of inside traitors.
It really is too bad. Your dispicably untenable position has allowed the tragedy of Iraq, the dissolution of our beloved constitution, the furtherance of military aggression to the empire's ultimate demise.
All this could have been avoided, if our 'journalists' had done their jobs after 9/11.
Why wasn't ground zero treated like a crime scene? Why did Bush resist, so vehemently, an investigation? How was it that perps were produced and imprinted in the nation's consciousness before building 7 even collapsed?
Well, turns out, the Twin Towers collapse was just a painful metaphor. Now, it's the real shit coming down. Even the rich people are going to take part in this one.
You want to try and convince us it isn't really happening? I really didn't get evicted last week, even though my rent was paid up full in advance?
Bullshit! They did it then to get us into Iraq, and they've done it now to destroy the system, so they can replace the old system with a brand spanking new one.
You should be stockpiling food, buying seeds and hand tools, and otherwise preparing for the long emergency because what's coming is bigger and meaner than anything you've ever read about or imagined.
And we truthers blame you asshole "naive progressives" for the hole we're in.
Thanks for all your intellectual horseshit. You really helped your nation when she needed you.
You wanna show us how 'progressive' and brave you really are? Let's see you expose the federal reserve for the undemocratic thuggery they're responsible for. Smart enough not to bite on that one, eh?
ps- Fallon's been dismissed. The Eisenhower's on its way to the Gulf, and Cheney's making the rounds of middle-eastern allies. Whaddya s'pose they're up to?
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Posted by: john110 on Mar 19, 2008 6:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I agree stop the war and fund America
Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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Posted by: cherylholmes on Mar 20, 2008 10:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt depression is here..call it what you like but it's only going to get worse.
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Posted by: ronheri on Mar 21, 2008 6:16 PM
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Posted by: PaulD on Mar 21, 2008 11:27 PM
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Ahem...why must $572 billion be spent at all? Why even collect it? Our family could sure use $1800 per person, and could no doubt spend it more wisely - and charitably - than Congress. Couldn't yours?
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Posted by: higginslads on Mar 23, 2008 8:17 PM
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"In recent weeks," he wrote, "the Israeli-Jewish elephant has been on a rampage, trampling across the airwaves and front pages of respected media outlets, including the Washington Post, The New York Times, the American Prospect, the Washington Times, the Economist, the New York Review of Books, CNN and MSNBC.
"For its encore," he added, "the proverbial pachyderm plopped itself... smack in the middle of "Meet the Press," NBC's top-rated Sunday morning news program."[28]
It occurred on February 23, when host Tim Russert read from a February 14 column by veteran journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave, editor at large of the Washington Times, who argued that the "strategic objective" of senior Bush administration officials was to secure Israel's borders by launching a crusade against its enemies in the Arab world.
One of Russert's guests was Richard Perle, at the time chairman of the Defense Policy Board, a key advisory panel to the Pentagon, as well as a fellow of the influential pro-Israel American Enterprise Institute. Of, perhaps, even more significance, Perle had been a founder of JINSA, the Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs, a little known neo-con think tank that will be examined later in the article.
Russert turned to Perle and addressed the question: "Can you assure American viewers across our country that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests?" And then came the bombshell: "And what would be the link in terms of Israel?"
Both Perle and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, who has family in Israel, have been routinely described in the press as the "architects" of the war on Iraq, so the question was addressed to the right person.
Clearly Perle was not prepared. Squirming slightly he replied: "Well, first of all, the answer is absolutely yes. Those of us who believe that we should take this action if Saddam doesn't disarm - and I doubt that he's going to - believe it's in the best interests of the United States. I don't see what would be wrong with surrounding Israel with democracies; indeed, if the whole world were democratic, we'd live in a much safer international security system because democracies do not wage aggressive wars."
I'll leave that contradiction for another time and note, as did the Forward's Eden, that:
..it was a startling question, especially when directed at Perle, the poster boy - along with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith - for anti-semitic critics who insist the United States is being pulled into war by pro-Likud Jewish advisers, on orders from Jerusalem.
But Russert is no David Duke, nor even a Patrick Buchanan. If Russert is asking the question on national television, then the toothpaste is out of the tube: The question has entered the discourse in elite Washington circles and is now a legitimate query to be floated in polite company. [29]
In a lengthy front page story, the Washington Post's Robert Kaiser described what appeared to be an unprecedented political partnership between Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush, headlined, "Bush and Sharon Nearly Identical On Mideast Policy."
"Over the past dozen years or more," Kaiser wrote, "supporters of Sharon's Likud Party have moved into leadership roles in most of the American-Jewish organizations that provide financial and political support for Israel."A War For Israel
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Posted by: morningCalm495 on Apr 2, 2008 10:40 AM
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 18, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have another sip.
It's the same old vicious cycle. Four thousand kids get killed and instead of the half-witted Texan in the White House realizing what a terrible mistake he's made, he sends in still more kids to justify those alrerady killed. Before you know it, you've got 58,000 dead kids!
Does that sound familiar?
America is going to be suffering for years as a result of the administration of George W. Bush. You want to hear the funny thing? America is getting exactly what it deserves. When the trillion dollar shithammer finally comes crashing down, those of us who have spent years waving the red flag will be vindicated. In fact we already are.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: The Party's Over - AMEN
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: The Party's Over...Hey Tom!!
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Time for Impeachment
Posted by: jcage
» PAST time for impeachment, even
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: patfr
» RE: The Party's Over
Posted by: Knot_Rich
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Mar 18, 2008 3:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thousand dead Kids pictures on the wall.
Kill more for Greed
Another thousand Dead Kids pictures on the wall
Sacrifice more for Greed
Three thousand Dead Kids pictures on the wall
Killed for Greed
Spatter another thousand Dead Kids Blood
On the wall
Of Greed!
All Hail!
The
Gods of WAR
(Dead Eye and The Shrub)
and
The their phony
Religion of Violence
That permeates our Society
With the stench of
Death.
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» RE: The Stench of Death is on all of the world's bankers, leaders, corporatists
Posted by: thekidde
» and don`t forget.......
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: The Stench of Death.
Posted by: Artra
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Posted by: nzo on Mar 18, 2008 3:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jeffreytaos on Mar 18, 2008 3:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:they already stole the bank
Posted by: GrannyBgood
» RE: It's Called Hetware the Neo-Nazi moronboy. He's been spreading their hate all over the Blog
Posted by: yellow
» RE: out of the war.
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: metoo on Mar 18, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have always spent too much on defense, this is nothing new, it's not like we can direct where our taxes go.
Our economic problem existed before Iraq and to deny it is foolishness.
We moved into a global economy much too fast, we didn't prepare our educational system to shift gears because they needed jobs to give away to build foreign markets, and we prioritized building markets elsewhere at a steep cost.
But that wasn't the final blow; the final blow is bad trade deals as a policy. No business or economy can amass the trade deficits we have, borrow from our trading partners too float the banks and bail us out of trouble so we can continue to buy cheap goods from them, building their economy at the cost of ours.
Who wasn't thinking? Who thought building China wasn't going to result in a larger demand for energy resources? Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays.
Today democracy is viewed as a bad system, that's the result of Bush's policies. When America can no longer afford to compete, Capitalism will be viewed by them as a bad system.
Exploiting labor will no longer be successful in the US so profits will decrease and income disparity will be regulated. Under that scenario business will be less attractive.
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» "Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays."
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Capitalism run amuck
Posted by: GrannyBgood
» We don't distinguish between "free" and "captive" markets
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Even China and India
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: "Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays."
Posted by: donl51
» RE: jobs
Posted by: donl51
» RE: jobs
Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: jobs
Posted by: metoo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 18, 2008 4:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration: Try 'em & Fry 'em
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Mar 18, 2008 4:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downturns in the economy are part of the normal, capitalistic, business cycle. If you recall the old axiom, "guns or butter", it refers to the possible ways the government can spend money to stimulate economic growth. The government can either spend it on "guns" (implements of war) or "butter" (domestic programs, i.e., social programs, infrastructure, roads, bridges, park development, public mass transit, etc.). Since the Reagan years the trend has been to spend predominately on "guns".
A return to some semblance of a sane Keynesian economic model would help to stop the hemorrhaging and, hopefully, begin the healing. Otherwise, continuing with the classical, or Austrian, model will only dig us deeper into the abyss. Coupling the Austrian model, so revered by the late Milton Friedman, with government military action is a surefire recipe for Naomi Klein's description of "disaster economics" (as is occurring in Iraq). Hopefully it's not too late to avert the very real possibility of this model being set loose in this country (unless we're seeing the start of it beginning right now).
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» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: rimchamp77
» I'll blame health insurers
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: "Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Austrian model
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Austrian model
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Government spending isn't free market capitalism
Posted by: Constitutionalist
» RE: Government spending isn't free market capitalism
Posted by: nochicagoboys
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Trazom on Mar 18, 2008 5:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The other nations without a central bank? Interestingly they are none other than the other countries defined as the Axis of Evil, Iran and North Korea. Go figure.
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» RE: Iraq didn't have a central bank
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: FSadley on Mar 18, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Health insurers wreak havoc on us that
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Health insurers wreak havoc on us that
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Bin Laden is Winning
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Bin Laden is Winning
Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» no, that was george bush that dropped the ball
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Mar 18, 2008 6:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So, FORGET McCain!
Posted by: GrannyBgood
» RE: The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: Constitutionalist
» RE: The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: B. Spoon on Mar 18, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the Invasion of Iraq is a problem that needs to be fixed, but our health insurers make our oil barons and military-industrial giants look like chump changers. Apparently health insurers are invisible to Americans, like the emperor's robes. Fixing our broken health insurance system is the single best, most important thing we need to do for our economy, our people, and our future...and appears even more (not less) so when placed next to Iraq for context. That reminds me, I neglected to mention the additional $50 billion/year (for $400 billion total and rising) we would save simply by preventably treating diabetes before eyesight, limbs and kidneys are lost...or the millions of bankruptcies, disablings, lawsuits and Americans living in terror caused by our health insurance system.
NONE of the top three presidential candidates is even pointing us in the right direction on health care, and the reason is simply money and power (theirs not ours). Please wake up, America.
Would you give $1000 each month to Al Qaeda? If you are under 65 years old, have decent health coverage and a family, you will give (on average) that much this month to health insurers to help keep our health care crises from being solved.
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» RE: Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: Lincolnfan
» RE: Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: Quannah
» Iraq and health care are both HUGE problems
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Iraq and health care are both HUGE problems
Posted by: Quannah
» To pay for health care all we need to do is cut
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Claimimg health insurer waste is costing us more BY FAR
Posted by: B. Spoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PakiBoy on Mar 18, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Good Point
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
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Posted by: modeler on Mar 18, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 18, 2008 7:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
get me off this planet!
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» Kevorkian is running for office in Michigan
Posted by: Beck
» You can't be making that up
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: donl51 on Mar 18, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BillDouglas on Mar 18, 2008 8:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Japanese Senator from the largest Japanese opposition Party said 9/11 was an inside job on national television in Japan.
The European Parliament held a 9/11 truth conference last month.
Former 9/11 Commissioner, Bob Kerry, according to an Air America host who has contacts with him, is now calling for an open ended 9/11 investigation to examine all the new emerging facts about 9/11.
Even American Icons like Willie Nelson have gone public saying 9/11 was an inside job, the Oscar winning actress, Charlie Sheen, Rosie O'Donnell . . .
and now a New York Times best selling novelist who wrote an explosive new historical fiction "The Shell Game" about the White House committing terror on Americans to fool us into war with Iran, has used his corporate media appearances to point out disturbing 9/11 facts that point to 9/11 as an inside job.
Until Alternet, and The Nation, take on the fuel that is causing the bonfire of fear in Americans, 9/11 . . . the wars will not be stopped.
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» RE: There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: When does the stench of the MSM become undeniable?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: When does the stench of the MSM become undeniable?
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: When does the stench of the MSM become undeniable?
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: donl51
» RE: There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: CatDad
» Who is 'us'?
Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: Who is 'us'?
Posted by: dustdevil
» Didn't we go through this with JFK?
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
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Posted by: tommy_slothrop on Mar 18, 2008 8:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's been great for the economy!
Posted by: rockpicker
» War great for the economy of the few
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: JSquercia on Mar 18, 2008 8:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Cheney will be crying
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Best Comment
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: sre on Mar 18, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Americans would care if
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 18, 2008 9:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess what I am saying is that there is such a disconnect between the uber-wealthy class and the rest of us schmucks, that we are nothing but vermin to them. It's gotten to the point where it isn't only "let them eat cake" but "let them die".
SAD
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» RE: "Let the little people die"
Posted by: mwinmag300
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Posted by: willymack on Mar 18, 2008 9:35 AM
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» RE: Off-subject (or maybe not) comments.
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: Off-subject (or maybe not) comments.
Posted by: metoo
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Mar 18, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i need not point out the obvious flaws with this approach.. the economy is showing signs of fatigue simply because the war has failed to cash in the "stock options" in a timely fashion...
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Posted by: jwg on Mar 18, 2008 10:47 AM
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» RE: I agree stop the war and fund America
Posted by: aussidawg
» Hey! Wait a minute!
Posted by: rockpicker
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Posted by: solrev on Mar 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: opmoc on Mar 18, 2008 11:30 AM
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Watch the video below!
"We were told we were fighting terrorism...The real terrorism was this occupation... I threw families onto the street in Iraq only to come home and see families thrown onto the street in this country in this tragic and unnecessary foreclosure crisis... Our enemy is not 5,000 miles away: they are right here at home." -- Michael Prysner
In the must-watch video below, Iraq war veteran and ANSWER organizer Michael Prysner retells his horrifying responsibilities as an occupation soldier, and denounces the Army officers who used racism and bigotry in order to justify the oppression of the Iraqi people. Prysner's eloquent and compelling testimony cuts through the Pentagon's propaganda and exposes the truth of the Iraq occupation -- please circulate this video to your friends, family members, classmates, co-workers and listservs.
Prysner joined the U.S. Army at age 17 and in March 2003, he was deployed to northern Iraq. He remained there for 12 months. Bearing witness to the many crimes of the occupation, Prysner became a staunch opponent of the war, and in 2005 he began organizing and speaking out against it. The four-day Winter Soldier event was organized by Iraq War Veterans Against the War.
Part One, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5ZUfpxnV0
Part Two, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iTdxBECos8
from A.N.S.W.E.R
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Mar 18, 2008 11:34 AM
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Morality is Good for Business...Unbridled Greed and Immoral Foreign Policies Are Bad For Business...
Don't Tell David Rockefeller or the Bilderberg Group..!
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:01 PM
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Robert Prechter on the crash of 1999 - Part 2.
The Fed's "Influence" is "Nonexistent".
US bank crisis sparks panic in markets
Foreign investors veto Fed rescue
'New world order,' buyers seen for banks
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» yer a laugh a minute, joe
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:09 PM
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The bad news: Your pension will soon be worthless as it drowns in hyper inflation.
Carlyle Group fund collapses
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:13 PM
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Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True, we should not have gone into Iraq (IMHO), and we would be ahead deficit-wise if we hadn't, since tax revenues have been up under present tax cuts and a robust economy. But the total of our economic situation cannot be attributed to Iraq expenditures. As a percentage of GDP, this war is a bargain compared to others and the upside COULD BE tremendous (although someone who has lost a son or daughter over there might disagree). The reality is that a down cycle in the economy is inevitable, but not terminal, especially after so many months of great economic news. Once stability is returned to the markets, and speculation on oil prices corrects itself, we will be on to the next economic cycle, whatever it is.
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» Like hell
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Like truth
Posted by: mwinmag300
» RE: Like truth
Posted by: Quannah
» Look at Corporate Welfare: America Does Not Have A "Free Market" At All Now
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Look at Corporate Welfare: America Does Not Have A "Free Market" At All Now
Posted by: mwinmag300
» And talking points don't equal a family member over there
Posted by: Beck
» RE: And talking points don't equal a family member over there
Posted by: mwinmag300
» Beck, you have an astoundingly clear
Posted by: jackyD
» We talk about our under and uninsured in the same
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 18, 2008 1:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nor do I need another comment about how it is OK because in the long run, the war will have proved to be a bargain. As an upthread comment suggests, rhetorically, invading another nation because it is good for our economy is the road to hell.
We need to get our priorities straight. First and foremost is the health of our planet. Anything that destabilizes our climate is poison.
My local paper points out that the salmon run up the Sacramento River is not happening this year. It seems the sea could not feed the young when they returned a year or so ago. We cannot deplete our fisheries without massive human starvation as a result.
Must we wait for the event of massive starvation before we do something? Must we see our planet become a catastrophe before we do something? Are we incapable--as a people--of doing anything? As always, time will tell.
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Posted by: hooligan on Mar 18, 2008 1:36 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 18, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only real purpose for America to need or have a military today is for self-defense. All this other stuff, protecting Israel, projecting power, strategic war, is a bunch of nonsense and very dangerous. It is time to reduce our military drastically to only what is needed as a self-defense force.
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Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 18, 2008 2:29 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gonzoskismet on Mar 18, 2008 3:57 PM
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Race in the Sixties. Nasa, i.e., the Government,
spent millions of dollars developing a pen that would work in zero gravity. The pen was eventually
developed. The Russians didn't have this problem.
They spent very little because their Cosmonauts
used a PENCIL in zero gravity.
This is a Pork Barrel Government, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Vampire Government. They will suck each and every one of you completely dry to ensure their continued existence and they don't give a tinkers damn how many of you it kills, make homeless or jobless. Just as long as they survive. And, until you drive a stake through the heart of this Monster,
it will feed upon your fear, your resources and your good nature until the last flag that will ever wave for you will be over the graves of you and your loved ones. Is it too late? You tell me.
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Posted by: drfun on Mar 18, 2008 6:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are successful in using the MSM to condition us to ignore the pain and suffering going on around us as they proceed with their agenda.
You are either with us or against us, as Bu$h said, any dissenters or agitators will be considered "Enemy Combatants".
The NWO only requires a sustainable population to supply, entertain, and enforce their needs, and if you don't fit in their grand plans of things, well they don't value life as they will "Shock & Awe" to extract what they require.
Since the 80's, there has been a erosion of wealth and liberty from the middle class to the elite's. The average person blinded by self consumption and ignorant of the ruse being pulled over them.
How can people who have children, grandchildren, self professed Christians vote a republican ticket, for lower taxes, pre-emptive war based on lies, and forcing successive generations to bear the financial costs of their greedy misguided immoral policies?
The U.S. truly deserves the government it has.
New economic powers are on the horizon and are going to inflict a wrath much harsher to the U.S. than it ever imagined.
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» Are these folks the Elders of Zion?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Please! "E OF Z" was forged by Russian secret police.
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
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Posted by: joeunix on Mar 19, 2008 1:15 AM
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"You will not understand any of this unless you understand that the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01 were not the work of Islamic fanatics. It was a high tech hijacking of the US military industrial complex by a secretive cabal of maniacal sociopaths..."
Spot on! Obviously, you don't fall for the ridiculous conspiracy theory promoted by the MSM, which attempts to blame innocent Arabs for the events of 911.
It's good to know that someone is actually thinking for a change, instead of dutifully swallowing MSM propaganda.
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» I don't trust Daniel Hopsicker
Posted by: joeunix
» N900SA, N987SA, N6308F, N4410F
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: N900SA, N987SA, N6308F, N4410F!!!???
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
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Posted by: rockpicker on Mar 19, 2008 1:30 AM
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I say, you are the psy-ops.
You explain to us how the government's assinine portrayal of how events went down on 9/11 has even the slightest legitimacy?
Alex Cockburn, Matt Taibbi, Josh Holland, Noam Chomsky--all have belittled the 9/11 truthers. But not one has made a clear and cogent argument, supplying facts and timelines, to support the numerous inconsistencies presented by the 'official' account.
To a man, they simply denigrate, and denounce.
How profound. And to think, once, I looked up to these scoundrels, who now prefer the illusion of ego-licking safety to brutal truth.
Show 'us' your heroes reports, with sound data and unassailable 'facts', that we may be suaded and rightfully beg your forgiveness.
What have you to present us?
Hamilton and Keane?
NIST?
Popular Mechanics?
DON'T YOU FOOLS WANT ONE REAL, SERIOUS, IN-DEPTH, INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION DONE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE?
No.
You'd rather have your little egos stroked.
Truth is, we're smart enough to put two and two together, and you, apparently, are not.
We can plainly see that events have moved us past the place and time where and when something might have been done about Cheney and his little group of inside traitors.
It really is too bad. Your dispicably untenable position has allowed the tragedy of Iraq, the dissolution of our beloved constitution, the furtherance of military aggression to the empire's ultimate demise.
All this could have been avoided, if our 'journalists' had done their jobs after 9/11.
Why wasn't ground zero treated like a crime scene? Why did Bush resist, so vehemently, an investigation? How was it that perps were produced and imprinted in the nation's consciousness before building 7 even collapsed?
Well, turns out, the Twin Towers collapse was just a painful metaphor. Now, it's the real shit coming down. Even the rich people are going to take part in this one.
You want to try and convince us it isn't really happening? I really didn't get evicted last week, even though my rent was paid up full in advance?
Bullshit! They did it then to get us into Iraq, and they've done it now to destroy the system, so they can replace the old system with a brand spanking new one.
You should be stockpiling food, buying seeds and hand tools, and otherwise preparing for the long emergency because what's coming is bigger and meaner than anything you've ever read about or imagined.
And we truthers blame you asshole "naive progressives" for the hole we're in.
Thanks for all your intellectual horseshit. You really helped your nation when she needed you.
You wanna show us how 'progressive' and brave you really are? Let's see you expose the federal reserve for the undemocratic thuggery they're responsible for. Smart enough not to bite on that one, eh?
ps- Fallon's been dismissed. The Eisenhower's on its way to the Gulf, and Cheney's making the rounds of middle-eastern allies. Whaddya s'pose they're up to?
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Posted by: john110 on Mar 19, 2008 6:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I agree stop the war and fund America
Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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Posted by: cherylholmes on Mar 20, 2008 10:55 PM
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No doubt depression is here..call it what you like but it's only going to get worse.
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Posted by: ronheri on Mar 21, 2008 6:16 PM
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Posted by: PaulD on Mar 21, 2008 11:27 PM
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Ahem...why must $572 billion be spent at all? Why even collect it? Our family could sure use $1800 per person, and could no doubt spend it more wisely - and charitably - than Congress. Couldn't yours?
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Posted by: higginslads on Mar 23, 2008 8:17 PM
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"In recent weeks," he wrote, "the Israeli-Jewish elephant has been on a rampage, trampling across the airwaves and front pages of respected media outlets, including the Washington Post, The New York Times, the American Prospect, the Washington Times, the Economist, the New York Review of Books, CNN and MSNBC.
"For its encore," he added, "the proverbial pachyderm plopped itself... smack in the middle of "Meet the Press," NBC's top-rated Sunday morning news program."[28]
It occurred on February 23, when host Tim Russert read from a February 14 column by veteran journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave, editor at large of the Washington Times, who argued that the "strategic objective" of senior Bush administration officials was to secure Israel's borders by launching a crusade against its enemies in the Arab world.
One of Russert's guests was Richard Perle, at the time chairman of the Defense Policy Board, a key advisory panel to the Pentagon, as well as a fellow of the influential pro-Israel American Enterprise Institute. Of, perhaps, even more significance, Perle had been a founder of JINSA, the Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs, a little known neo-con think tank that will be examined later in the article.
Russert turned to Perle and addressed the question: "Can you assure American viewers across our country that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests?" And then came the bombshell: "And what would be the link in terms of Israel?"
Both Perle and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, who has family in Israel, have been routinely described in the press as the "architects" of the war on Iraq, so the question was addressed to the right person.
Clearly Perle was not prepared. Squirming slightly he replied: "Well, first of all, the answer is absolutely yes. Those of us who believe that we should take this action if Saddam doesn't disarm - and I doubt that he's going to - believe it's in the best interests of the United States. I don't see what would be wrong with surrounding Israel with democracies; indeed, if the whole world were democratic, we'd live in a much safer international security system because democracies do not wage aggressive wars."
I'll leave that contradiction for another time and note, as did the Forward's Eden, that:
..it was a startling question, especially when directed at Perle, the poster boy - along with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith - for anti-semitic critics who insist the United States is being pulled into war by pro-Likud Jewish advisers, on orders from Jerusalem.
But Russert is no David Duke, nor even a Patrick Buchanan. If Russert is asking the question on national television, then the toothpaste is out of the tube: The question has entered the discourse in elite Washington circles and is now a legitimate query to be floated in polite company. [29]
In a lengthy front page story, the Washington Post's Robert Kaiser described what appeared to be an unprecedented political partnership between Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush, headlined, "Bush and Sharon Nearly Identical On Mideast Policy."
"Over the past dozen years or more," Kaiser wrote, "supporters of Sharon's Likud Party have moved into leadership roles in most of the American-Jewish organizations that provide financial and political support for Israel."A War For Israel
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Posted by: morningCalm495 on Apr 2, 2008 10:40 AM
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Congress Holds Historic Debate On Afghan War, But Media is MIA
Lessons from a Revolutionary's Lifetime Crusade for Justice
Why Democrat John Hall Does Not Deserve an Endorsement From MoveOn.org




