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Anti-War Voters Trust McCain to Make Decisions About 'War on Terror'

By Ira Chernus, AlterNet. Posted March 12, 2008.


Republicans may have already found a way to control the terms of the fall debate.
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We don't know who will carry the Democrats' banner onto the political battlefield this fall. But we do know the kind of attack the Dems will face. The McCain campaign has little in its arsenal beyond two words: "No Surrender" -- no surrender anywhere, but especially in Iraq. Its strategy is merely to hurl that phrase over and over again, in every form imaginable.

Can it work, with public opinion still so firmly against the war? Frank Rich, a liberal stalwart of the New York Times op-ed page, doubts it. He claims that "the mere mention of Iraq is dangerous to Mr. McCain. … It will be a slam-dunk for Democrats to argue that it's long past time for the Iraqis to stand up on a sensible timetable that will allow the Americans to stand down."

But when the issue is war and peace, Democrats should be as wary as George Tenet about predicting a "slam dunk." Frank Rich, like so many others, assumes that voters who are against the war will choose the candidate who is against the war. Ah, if only our fellow citizens were indeed so logical, how much easier it would be to forecast elections -- and what a different nation this would be.

In fact, the polling numbers from late February and early March already show a less logical, more disturbing trend. A clear majority still think the war was a mistake. But when the question is which candidate will do best handling the war, McCain wins every time. In an LA Times/Bloomberg (LAT/B) poll, it's no contest. He outpolls Clinton on the question 51-35 and outpolls Obama 47-34. A Washington Post/ABC (WP/ABC) poll pitted McCain only against Obama. Though the result was closer, McCain still won 48-43. Yet 63% in that poll said the war was not worth fighting.

In a New York Times/CBS News (NYT/CBS) poll, 58% said the U.S. should never have attacked Iraq. Yet again McCain gets the highest score on "making the right decisions on Iraq"; 58% are confident about McCain (27% "very" confident), 57% about Obama (only 20% "very" confident), and 50% about Clinton. Among the crucial independent voters, McCain gets 62% confidence, while Obama gets only 54% and Clinton 51%. Though 83% of Democrats say the war was wrong, a whopping 42% are confident McCain will make the right decisions on the war, while 21% of Democrats have no confidence in Obama and the same number no confidence in Clinton.

How to explain these surprising numbers? Part of the explanation lies in the changing view of the war. Over the last year, the number who say the war is going well jumped from 30% to 48% in the LAT/B poll. The NYT/CBS poll records a similar jump since last June, from 22% to 43%. In the WP/ABC poll, the number who see "significant progress" jumped from 31% to 43% in just the last three months. That increase tracks very closely with the growing political fortunes of McCain, who was all but counted out last summer.

Yet in nearly every poll a majority do not expect this progress to produce success for the U.S. 54% say things are still going badly, in the NYT/CBS poll. And when Pew asked, "Should we bring the troops home as soon as possible?" more said yes than no (though just barely, 49-47). So, while the growing perception that "the surge is working" helps McCain, it's hard to credit that alone for the voter's trust in him.

Another key to McCain's success is his view that Iraq is just one front, though the most vital, in a global war on terrorism. On that global front, voters clearly see him as their most trustworthy defender.

When the LAT/B poll asked, "Who would be best at protecting the country from terrorism?", McCain bested Clinton by the wide margin of 54-27 and Obama by the even wider margin of 58-21. In the Pew poll, 43% said Obama would not be tough enough on foreign policy and national security issues. 37% had the same concern about Clinton, but a mere 16% about McCain. Independents showed the same pattern on the issue as the overall electorate.

Remember the "crisis phone call, 3 AM" commercial that the Clinton campaign used so successfully? Rasmussen Reports was smart enough to ask voters whom they'd rather have answering that phone: Clinton, Obama, or . . . McCain. The two Democrats got only 25% each, while McCain was way ahead with 42%.

These numbers point to the most important factor of all. Most McCain-trusters are not telling the pollsters what they think about competing policies. How many of them really know anything about the various candidates' policies on global terrorism? They hear questions about "crisis," "protecting," and "toughness" as questions about the candidates' character: Who can I really trust? Who will stand firm when the going gets rough? Which one will take care of America in an emergency? Which one has guts?

Those are precisely the questions McCain plans to make central in this year's election. (Take a look at this video from the McCain campaign, where he morphs into Winston Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt.) If he can get even a slim majority to care more about character than rational analysis of policies, he may very well be on the way to the White House.

For a lot of voters, the character question translates (consciously or unconsciously) into: Which candidate will stand up and act like a real man? So it's not surprising that, in the Rasmussen "crisis" poll, McCain did much better among men (51% McCain, 21% Obama, 19% Clinton). But even among women, McCain's 33% narrowly edged out the Democrats, who got 30% each.

If character is the central issue, McCain's often-discussed age can be a big plus too. When the Pew pollsters said "McCain" and asked respondents to say the first word that came to mind, by far the most (55) said "Old." But look at the runners-up: "Honest" (32); "Experienced" (29); "Patriot" (21). If you are looking at an honest experienced patriot, "old" might very well mean wise, mature, settled, dependable. When a world crisis erupts, who would you rather have answering that phone: a stable, battle-tested veteran who has been through it all, or a young kid who is just coming under fire for the first time?

Of course that's one of the questions Hillary Clinton's campaign is bringing to the fore. "Since we now know Sen. McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that," she said recently, at a press conference surrounded by a gaggle of retired military officers. Apparently Clinton's strategists don't agree with Paul Krugman, who wrote recently that a focus on the economy "could well give Democrats a huge advantage" -- especially Hillary, because "the shift in electoral focus from Iraq to economic anxiety clearly plays to Mrs. Clinton's strengths."

Krugman assumes that the economy can be the Dems' winning card because it "has overtaken Iraq as the public's biggest concern." But the polls don't give that clear message at all. In the LAT/B poll, 40% say the economy is their number one issue. But add together the 31% who say Iraq and the 15% who say "protecting the country," and the economy takes second place. In the NYT/CBS poll, Iraq, war, and terror add up to 25%, just slightly behind the economy's 29%.

Perhaps Hillary's people think they can play on this ambiguity to have it both ways: focus on national security during the primary season to secure the nomination, then switch the spotlight to the economy in the fall campaign. But if the current polling trends continue, they are taking a huge risk. McCain's "No Surrender" mantra is already scoring more points than Democrats expected. They seem ill-prepared to cope with the power of those two words. If Clinton forces Obama to focus the current contest on the war and security, the Dems are playing right into McCain's only strength.

Some pundits argue that the Democratic candidate have no choice. McCain's campaign against "cut-and-run" surrender -- which boils down to a charge of Democratic cowardice and treason -- is so powerful that his opponent will have to confront it head on and end up making it the central campaign issue. In other words, the Republicans have already found a way to control the terms of the fall debate.

If that's true, the current poll numbers send a warning sign. A lot of voters who oppose the war will be logically consistent and vote for the candidate who wears the label "anti-war" -- but perhaps not enough to give that candidate a victory. The voters who decide the outcome may be those who oppose the war yet choose McCain, because they feel that his superior character makes him best suited to deal with the war.

That drives rational progressives nuts, but their rage and despair won't change the outcome. What could change the outcome is a strategy that faces up to the irrational facts. That might mean starting right now to shift the focus from war to economy. It might mean reframing the war as an economic issue, and finding some other symbolic vehicle for the battle over "character" issues. It might mean whatever other approach the Democratic strategists can invent.

The essential point is to recognize that McCain's only hope is to turn the war from a policy issue into a character issue. Right now, he seems to be doing surprisingly well.

AlterNet is a non profit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by our writers are their own.

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See more stories tagged with: iraq, clinton, obama, war on terror, election08, mccain

Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder and author of Monsters To Destroy: The Neoconservative War on Terror and Sin.

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Perhaps this may be true
Posted by: talkville on Mar 12, 2008 1:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2 of the 3 major candidates for election to the Executive Branch of the Federal Government are emphasizing credentials by appealing to 'experience'; this barely disguised euphemism really means: Connections. One of them in a more domestic, the other in a foreign policy aspect. Both are of a piece with the very apparatus of this corporate-state that has emerged into the open in the last few decades. Their election would signify a status quo, perhaps 'tweaked' just a bit to 'satisfy the populace'.

Iraq was a well-planned, well-engineered and well-executed exercise in unilateral aggression and invasion of a sovereign country based on half-truths and outright lies and falsehoods. Not long ago this was called imperialism, I don't know what the current term might be. It is by now not so much a 'war' as an entrenching Occupation, being constructed from the ground up and not for the overall benefit of the Iraqi people (or those who remain living to watch it happen). The Occupation even managed to draw in al-qaeda, which had not been there before and which now provides the very pretext for remaining there (something circular about all this?)

But it may very well turn out this article is right. The rapidly deteriorating economic conditions on the domestic side and the ongoing occupation and provocations to the middle east on the foreign side cannot but increase anxieties which, of course, can only mean fears-- and when votes are cast out of fear and raw emotions this is bound to run in favor of the unlikeliest of more reasoned assessments.

In all events, it seems it will be a kind of referendum on a new age of imperial consolidation.

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» this part of the premise isn't true Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: Perhaps this may be true Posted by: cherylholmes
Depends on what it means to be against the war.
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Mar 12, 2008 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The alleged anti-war, pro-McCain voters are not against the war on principle. They are not bothered by the fraudulent casus belli, the massive Iraqi casualties or the international outrage, which attracts people to terrorist groups. These voters are disgusted with the poor management of a war in which they basically believe, and they think McCain more competent to manage it than Bush. If one polled people who have always opposed the war, I'm sure Obama and Nader would come out on top.

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Words vs Action!
Posted by: carbon-based on Mar 12, 2008 2:54 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if those polled were driven by the lack of strategic thinking on Obama and Clintons part while McCains strategy makes more sense.

Neither Clinton or Obama put forth a plan for getting us out of Iraq..they only say we will withdraw immediately..any clear thinking person knows thats not possible so it paints them as inexperienced! No one wants to see their country defeated amid a war with Islamic extremest as well.

They both need to develop something with more substance than "Change" and get out of Iraq ASAP"

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» RE: Words vs Action! Posted by: jareilly
The electorate is anti-black and anti-woman
Posted by: Moonray on Mar 12, 2008 2:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read between the lines of those poll results and you will find many voters are saying: We'd rather have a white war-monger than a peace-maker who's black or female. It's that simple.

Rush Limbaugh has been chortling that the Democrats "don't have a chance" and he might be right. Look at the small number of white males who vote for Obama in state after state.

Republicans typically win by tricking working-class whites into voting against their own interests. This time, the Republicans are counting on the inherent racism and sexism of working-class whites to create that same voting trend.

If the Republicans win in November, it will represent a crisis for American democracy. That outcome would signal that most Americans KNOWINGLY embrace militarism, racism, sexism and fiscal stupidity in their choice of leaders, and America would lose what little moral standing it has left. Other developed nations would begin to disassociate themselves from us in a serious way.

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Yes we can ??
Posted by: adamskiinasia on Mar 12, 2008 3:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I smile when progressives are so confident about how Americans will dump the GOP and everything will be fine. Half of voting Americans are ignorant, overly-patriotic, war-mongering simpletons. This article is spot on in pointing out the obvious to anyone who has watched American politics closely; for every well-informed, peaceful progressive in America there are 4 rednecks. Take them to a voting booth and sing them your "Yes we can" song and see who they vote for. Can everyone see which party , with all the voting morons in America , will be staying in the White House ? YES, WE CAN !!! :)

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» RE: Yes we can ?? Posted by: naryaquid
» RE: Yes we can ?? Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Yes we can ?? Posted by: VZEQICVA
The US remembers the disastrous retreat out of Vietnam
Posted by: Swedish liberal on Mar 12, 2008 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US voters, in particular the non hippie Baby Boomers, remember the disgraceful retreat from Vietnam. The US left the Vietnamese people to communist oppression, terror and massive poverty. Appalling human rights condition, lack of democracy and lack of economic growth.

The fight against communist aggression and against totalitarianism is and will always be on the top agenda for the American people.

The decision to fight in Vietnam and Iraq was in essence correct but it was extremely poorly executed.

When it comes to setting the US on the right track and at the same time ensure that the mistakes in leaving Vietnam is not made. Leaving the population to a worse government.

The right to self determination does not mean that a totalitarian regime can take over but the right to elf determination comes from the individual.

And in this respect I think most Americans believe that John McCain is best suited to do a ordered retreat as fast as possible without leaving the Iraqi people in as dire straits as teh Vietnamese people was left in.

Unfortunately both Obama and Clinton's policies on Iraq reeks of desperation, get out as soon as possible let the Iraqis fend best they can.

If Obama and Clinton can get it across that they will as McCain combine caution with compassion for teh Iraqi people they might do much better in the polls.

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» Well said! nm Posted by: Timba
» Bullshit alert! Posted by: sausage
» Yes indeed bullshit alert! Posted by: Swedish liberal
» RE: Yes indeed bullshit alert! Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Yes indeed bullshit alert! Posted by: mkdelta69
» So why do you not live in China? Posted by: Swedish liberal
» VIETNAM IS A F**G TOTALITARIAN STATE Posted by: Swedish liberal
» RE: VIETNAM IS A F**G TOTALITARIAN STATE Posted by: left_libertarian
McCain's Warmongering
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Mar 12, 2008 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The manipulation of public sentiment has been a key part of the White House’s entire Iraq war and occupation enterprise, so we should not be surprised to see it play an important role in Senator McCain's electoral strategy. For those interested in a psychological analysis of this warmongering, I have recently completed a 10-minute online video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It examines how the Bush administration’s messaging targets five core concerns that often govern our lives--concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. The video describes these warmongering appeals and offers suggestions for how to counter them. It’s available for viewing HERE.

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The whole thing is probably moot
Posted by: colinmeister on Mar 12, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real question is not whether McCain Wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years, or "Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran", it is whether the United States can afford to fight any wars. With the economy in free fall and the dollar in the toilet, where is the money going to come from?

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» You have the money for war? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Time to join the War Resisters League Posted by: thistleblower
McCain loses on the character issue
Posted by: Democritus on Mar 12, 2008 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If voters think as Ira Chernus does, that character matters, then McCain loses. Remember that McCain was one of "the Keating five," who tried to bail out his buddy, Charles Keating, in the failed Lincoln Savings scandal. McCain was rebuked by Senate Ethics Committee for that little faux pas.

McCain's latest scandal was reported in the NY Times, telling of the favors he lavished on his lobbyist friends--the ones who contributed to his campaign. This revelation came before McCain said he never took money from special interests.

Then there were the stories from other POWs about McCain's being called "Songbird" for his collaboration with his North Vietnamese captors during his 5 and a half years as a POW. Perhaps these stories have little merit, but where there's smoke, there is usually a little fire.

With respect to who can "handle" the war in Iraq, McCain has said that he agrees with George W. Bush and the latest "surge." What that surge has done is to create a status quo in which we have three sorts of armed militias--Sunni, Shia, and Kurd--that are just itching to have a go at one another as soon as each thinks it might get the upper hand. At the same time, our occupation forces are hunkering down while the puppet government in Iraq siphons $12 billion a month from our treasury for maintaining our troops there.

So what McCain is proposing in supporting Bush's policies is a road to financial ruin for no benefit whatsoever, and the Iraqi oil money which was supposed to go toward rebuilding Iraq is now contributing to a surplus in the Iraqi treasury.

If that weren't bad enough, there is the question of McCain's bellicose stand against Iran. What the American electorate has to be told--over and over, apparently--is that a McCain presidency will allow him a "do over" with Iran. Judging from the disaster that was Iraq, the coming disaster with Iran will surely put a last nail in the coffin of American imperialism. Would McCain be smarter than that? Not likely. Remember that he graduated fifth from the bottom of his class at Annapolis.

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Why do we fight wars for oil? Let's recap and connect those dots?
Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 12, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it all that "cheap" junk food which contains a lot of chemicals such as high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated oils, msg, etc ... which require a lot more petroleum to manufacture than even preserving healthy produce?

Is it America's lust for driving those big-butt vans and SUVs and to keep that macho/individualist attitude?

And what about the defunding and stipulations forced against alternative renewables such as solar and wind or even the illegalization of Industrial Hemp which is not only renewable but does not deplete and has 25000 industrial uses?

And what about all those silly gizmos out there such as IPods and those gigantic HDTVs you can't resist?

Yes, they all require lots and lots of petroleum to manufacture. The rising crude oil prices that have been going on long term and the fact that America REFUSES to consider putting those alternative renewables to work by buying into the lies of Big Oil, Chemical, Agri, etc ... is what is keeping this country occupying one oil-rich nation after another. Well, I'm happy to be conserving and looking for petroleum-free alternative products which I'm surprisingly able to get a 90% success at. Or maybe I'm too frugal like our ancestors before the after WWII folks?

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» Share your backyard bounty Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: Share your backyard bounty Posted by: rainingwolf
McCain is as warhawkish as u can get!!!
Posted by: xvictor on Mar 12, 2008 5:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So why do folks foolishly believe he's a peace candidate?? I just don't get it. Is there something in the water????>

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War Based On LIES Is Already Lost
Posted by: left_libertarian on Mar 12, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraq War can't be won. It was based on lies. A propaganda campaign orchestrated by the Bush Administration sold fear to the gullible American public.

Iraq
Had no WMD
No ties to al-Quida
Had nothing to do with 9/11
And to think that its military was a direct threat to the US is not only a joke, but an insult to the greatest military the world has ever know.

So to say, as McCain believes, that the war can be 'won:'it's already lost. The lies become a sad truth, Bush and Cheney are free because the Democratic Party does not have a sense of justice and the courage to impeach these criminals

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Personally, I see no scenario for improvement
Posted by: smendler on Mar 12, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The election of Clinton *or* Obama will push the more paranoid wingnuts over the edge into armed violence, and the government's heavyhanded reactive crackdown on them will push the less paranoid ones over to join them. President McCain would accelerate the construction of the corporate national security state and squash dissent. Right now I don't see any way out of the impending dark. I see the dawn on the other side, sure, no question -- but between here and there I see only a long, *long* night.

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Fear and Faith.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Mar 12, 2008 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe most people see it like this:

"I would rather have Obama on my basketball team, Hillary on my debate team, but McCain should run the National Security Team."

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» I sure wouldn't want McCain Posted by: Ellie1
SO DO WE JUST CAVE IN TO A PERMANENT STATE OF WAR
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 12, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because if Mc Cain gets elected that's what he wants. Granted that's what the new president will inherit, but that doesn't mean we should settle for 100 yrs. McCain has a short fuse and the same stubborn streak as Bush. His image is contrived and he is presented as flawless and the model citizen. In fact he's mediocre and not qualified to be the president. I used to lke him. but but anymore. Thanks, ANNA

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Winning
Posted by: QCao009 on Mar 12, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Single issues(war, economy, health care) are great for short ads and slogans and they are more appealing to voters. However, they seldom reflect the capacity, the passion and the integrity of a true leader.

McCain talks about "no surrender", but his party surrendered in Vietnam and spun it with our tacit agreement, the Chomsky crowd included. The truth is others have always paid and continue to pay for our so-called victories: the Vietnamese killed, the Iraquis killed, the Afghans killed, the young Americans killed and those walking the streets now homeless and broken and a threat to a civil society because we are not treating them with any civility.

A true leader needs to talk about winning the peace. S(he) can appeal to the voters in a very different way by connecting the dots between a failing economy and a duped war(one we have been tricked and trapped by Iran and our ennemies to enter). A true leader can talk about a global economy and an American economy that can thrive on collaboration and competition and not just shopping and cheap gas.

It is fascinating to watch a young man grow old. A young Bill Clinton was once able to do both: be precise and be concise, talk about one issue and string many issues together. May be Senator Obama will grow into that leadership. So far, a plan of withdrawing and attacking McCain is just not enough on this issue. It simply reflects our shallowness. The Bush/Cheney presidency has really lowered our standard of leadership. Our idea of what a winner is has made all of us losers.

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» RE: Winning; QCao009 Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Winning through truth Posted by: Itsthewater
Handing a campaign to the other side
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Mar 12, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton's contention that McCain is more qualified to become president than Obama hands one more issue to the republican camp. As has been noted on progressive sites and some corporate media, if Obama is the democratic nominee, the McCain campaign can bring out "even Obama's democratic rival understands that Senator McCain is a better candidate to protect Americans."

If Clinton wins the nomination, the thrust is more likely to be "if Senator Clinton can't even be loyal to her own party, how can she be trusted to have the integrity is takes to be president?"

Clinton's lack of character, her need to win at all costs, and her poor judgement just might be the final straw needed to help the democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again.

I had planned to vote for any democrat, even if I didn't agree with that person's entire platform. Hillary Clinton makes it hard to do that. She has undermined her opponent to the point of appearing to support the other party's candidate. I have no respect for her now, and I have less and less hope that there will be a democrat in the White House next year.

This article is a clear indication to me that Clinton's fearmongering ads and attacks on Obama's competence have the potential to be absolutely devastating to the democrats. I agree with a poster above who said that many Americans are not opposed to the war on principle or because it's illegal imperialism based on lies. Many just don't like it because we are losing; these people would change their minds if their perception was that we were winning. That would explain why the "success" of the "surge" has increased approval ratings of the war.

For awhile it seemed that the democrats might pull off a victory, but that becomes more doubtful every time Clinton uncovers a new campaign tactic. One can only hope that Pennsylvania goes to Obama and she recognizes that she has lost. The former is possible, the latter unlikely.

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» Clinton is only loyal to Clinton Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: Handing a campaign to the other side Posted by: dangerouslysane
The Iraq war is a failed strategy from the get go
Posted by: surfreality on Mar 12, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraqi invasion was billed as "The central front on the war on terror". Yet Bush/Cheney took their eyes off the ball in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda and Osama to build a gas station in Iraq. The resulting insurgency became a recruiting magnet for Jihadists and a war lab for them to practice killing Americans. Much like how Afghani Jihadists sharpened their skills against the Russians. The fall out from their education remains to be experienced.
Iran is the beneficiary of this failed strategy as they are seen by the majority of Iraqi Shia as the best protectors of their interests. The Iranian President's recent visit to Iraq was a remarkable contrast to that of President Bush.
Bush had to practically sneak in...
The surge is keeping the Iraqi warring factions apart to some degree for now, but it is likely that there will be a horrendous civil war. The question is weather or not we want American troops in the middle of the upcoming bloodbath.
Cost of failed strategy so far: 1000s dead, 3 trillion dollars and world wide enmity.
Value to the jihadists: priceless.

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People see war as good economics
Posted by: daw13 on Mar 12, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article suggests that democrats should shift focus from Iraq to the economy. This could backfire if not done right. Consider: if the U.S. "wins" the war, then it controls the oil and this is good for the economy. Capitalists use of warfare as a means of solving economic problems is as much a part of our cultural ideology as Uncle Sam and apple pie. Democrats must underline not so much the moral failures of Iraq, but the strategic failures. They must explode the myth that winning is even a remote possibility.

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It's the economy...
Posted by: center_peace on Mar 12, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indeed the key is to turn the Iraq War into an Economy issue. Keep pounding that in over and over till it sticks.

Every time McCain declares "No Surrender", retort "At what cost?".

After every speech, debate or ad, end it with, "And in the time just we've spent talking, the War in Iraq has just cost the next three generations of your family $______. You OWE it to them to stop this war now."

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» RE: It's the economy... Posted by: John Edward
The United States of Scaredy Cats
Posted by: sausage on Mar 12, 2008 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that a sizable majority of Americans live in a fear-ridden world. Fear of rape, robbery, mayhem, murder and terror in general terrifies us. The mainstream media feeds us a daily dose of bloody gore which we lap up like the ghosts at the shore of the River Styx.

We have already saddled outselves with guilt over an impending bloodbath should American ground forces leave Iraq; unleasing a torrent of suicide jacket-wearing al Qaeda terrors on the world like a whirlwind of evil jinn. Improbable images of hook-nosed demons bombing
sports stadiums and poisoning water supplies are ladled up to us in our newspapers, television and radios.

With images like that dancing in our collective pinheads, perhaps Senator John "He's a war hero" McCain's call for the United States staying 100 years in Iraq isn't such a bad idea after all. We've kept the Germans in check for sixty years and maintained the peace on the Korean peninsula for fifty...so 100 years in Iraq,eh?

To paraphrase comedian George Carlin, that's bullshit and it's bad for you.

Rather than heeding a "war hero" or our own national guilt over the bloodbaths and acts of genocide American inflicted upon itself and foreign peoples in the past, when it comes to Iraq, we must heed the words of M.K. Gandhi to Lord Louis Montbattern on the eve of Indian partition:"You must face the bloodbath and accept it."

It is time we, the American people, stopped being the most cowardly people on the planet who hide their unwarrented fears behind military bombast and threats of nuclear destruction. No more United States of Scaredy Cats.

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OCCUPATION--OCCUPATION--OCCUPATION
Posted by: kirkmuse on Mar 12, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The war in Iraq is over we won! We are now occupying Iraq. Occupations cannot be won or lost. Who is going to surrender and sign the peace treaty?

All military occupations end by the occupiers going home. It's time to end the occupation and bring our troops home.

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The Power of Nightmares : The Rise of the Politics of Fear
Posted by: opmoc on Mar 12, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it rather surprising that this documentary actually got shown on the BBC. The official government censor must have been on holiday or asleep at the time. I would be amazed if its been shown on US TV.

google video

wiki description

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War A'Plenty
Posted by: QQOblivion on Mar 12, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If McCain wins and continues the Iraq war, and gets us into new additional wars in Iran and elsewhere, then this will not only cost America money, it will cost America lives. Hey, young people. Don't want to get drafted? Then register to vote, and vote for whomever the Democrat nominee is in November. Yeah, both Hillary and Obama are pro-war, but not like McCain is.

By the way, with all these coming wars, we may very likely not be fighting all of them "over there". The US may, for the first time in a long time, be fighting a couple of these wars on US soil. You've been warned.

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The way-too-old warmonger is the biggest threat to
Posted by: kentigereyes@yahoo.com on Mar 12, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the planet if he gets elected. I'm no fan of hrc/slick willy or BO but the United States of Arrogance needs to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan NOW!, TODAY!, IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!! This country is being destroyed by the despicably evil "w"/DICKY regime with it's presence in the Middle East and the jerk mccain talks of being there for 100 years. Give me a break USA, WAKE THE ____ UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ken

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What does the wayback machine say?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 12, 2008 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Assuming it hasn't all been rewritten by Orwellian agents of the Ministry of Truth, we can go back to 2002 and 2003 and see what everyone had to say about the war:

Barak Obama, 2002:

"That’s what Im opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the middle east, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Queda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars."


Hillary Clinton, 2002:

In an October 2002 speech on the Senate floor, Clinton said that if left unchecked, Hussein "will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

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I call bullshit on the statistics.
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Mar 12, 2008 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the first things you learn in statistics is that they can mean whatever you want them to mean if you present it properly.

Anyone who has ever done a Zogby poll can tell you that the questions are often non-specific and very often leading. Few of them allow for free-form answers and instead force you to choose one of five answers, neither of which capture any sort of complexity.

For instance, if I "somewhat oppose" the occupation in Iraq instead of "strongly oppose" do I actually mostly support it? Lets say the poll concludes that "Opponents of the war support John McCain". Do those war opponents include those that "somewhat oppose" the war or only those that are "strongly opposed"? Tough to say unless you can actually look at the raw data and the logic used to draw conclusions.

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Economy
Posted by: BCcovers on Mar 12, 2008 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most recessions in recent history only last for 2-3 quarters. Meaning that we could already be on our way to recovery by the time the fall rolls around. If things are getting better, and the Democrats continue to focus on the economy getting bad they could be framed as the "doom and Gloom", cut and run party by McCain. Relying on a bad economy to win the election is a bad plan and selfish in nature. What the Democratic candidate must do (whichever one it may be) is reaffirm their Iraq stance and then come more to the center on social issues. Democrats have misinterpreted the public's displeasure with the war with a desire for socialism. If they continue to push this rhetoric, they are toast. People would rather have minimal interference in their own lives and status qou with a distant war going on; then an outright change in the character of our nation. People are willing to allow the war to continue when faced with the choice of extreme change and socialism. That is why, while he has a good base within his own party, Barack wouldn't stand a chance in the general election; his history and voting records do not jive well with the rest of the nation.

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» RE: economy Posted by: dangerouslysane
Dems get what they deserve
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Mar 12, 2008 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dems are getting exactly what they deserve by their capitulation on 9/11. Go on believing your government loves you. Go on believing that some of the most intelligent people out there are just kooks because of what they say about 9/11. It's your right to live in denial, but dont expect to win any debates against the neocons if you play on their terms. It's easy to win when you just ignore all opposing facts and label your opposition as conspiracy theorists.

I am glad democrats are getting what they deserve. I hope it continues until they finally understand how futile it is to keep lying to themselves.

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» right ON Posted by: realtruther
All
Posted by: rsmohio on Mar 12, 2008 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
these statistics are wonderful, but the only candidate to vote for is the one who says that he/she is pulling out as soon as possible. Of course that statement is perfect for politicians because of its vagueness. I wish one of them would come out and say that it's going to be his/her first order of business. I'm afraid that I'm living in a fool's paradise in this regard.

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Getting Out of Iraq
Posted by: rafey on Mar 12, 2008 12:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It took on a few months to train our soldiers to begin our fight in WWII. It takes only 6 months to train our soldiers currently to defend our nation (although we have not had to do any real defending since WWII ...we have mostly been fighting other people's wars). So why does it take so many years to train a single Iraqi? Obviously, it doesn't, so that is _not_ the problem, is it? Additionally, we were outnumbered an estimated 10 to 1 in Vietnam and the Chinese were planning on doubling that number over the following two years(they had access to a virtually unlimmited population of soldiers). Although we were duped into going into war there, we were smart to get out when we did or we would have paid very, very, very dearly !!!

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The Wrong Question
Posted by: aonghus36 on Mar 12, 2008 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the question would be who would be more likely to conduct and promote war better, naturally the answer would be, amongst the available choices, John McCain, every time. But, isn't a better question, "Which candidate will likely conduct and promote peace better?" The answer would be, amongst the available choices, Barack Obama, every time. Let's learn to ask the right questions.

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McCain Babbles And Wets Himself
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Mar 12, 2008 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to TBR News website. Yet another Repug candidate with obvious brain damage, just like Reagan and Bush Jr.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2818.htm#001

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amarilloeldo
Posted by: amarilloeldo on Mar 12, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author's evidence is strong and he's looked at this from several angles. He's missed the larger view. All of which the voters might do, as well. Obama alone is the man with the talent to show us a larger picture.

If experience is the important factor, McKain appears to be strongest, although quite removed from foreign affairs. If we fear the image of us running home from Iraq with our tail between our legs, then Mc Kain probably looks better. If the ending of hostilities is considered within the context of winner-loser, then McKain probably looks best to the citizens.

The ideas that Hillary has foreign policy experience by osmosis , or that Barrack has foreign policy expertise by natural talent, are unlikely to persuade the voters. The idea that John McKain has more foreign policy experience because of age or because he sat on a committee made of mostly white American men and studied the pentagon budget is more likely to persuade the voters.

Who is defining these issues? Let’s look at another definition we’ve used to understand national elections. For the past 15 or 20 years, states have been branded as either red or blue and accordingly issues have been presented simplistically as either one way or another. There were many reasons for this not the least of which was that the issues can easily be “explained” in sound bites that fit easily between the commercials. [Tangent: news as programmed learning]

Issues are complex. States that might be either blue or red were typecast as populated by ultra-rightists and -leftists, not thoughtful centrists. That always bugged me but i never conveyed my annoyance convincingly, People thought the concept of Blue/Red helpful while I saw it as threatening to our complexity and strength as a nation.
Obama, however, showed us the error. He said, “There are not Red People and Blue People. There are all sorts of Americans, Red, blue and purple and most of us bleed red, white and blue. He killed the curse of the color brand. He took it to where the conclusion of the Red/Blue thing inevitably went and said there are no Red or blue people. You see, Obama really is a man of our children’s generation. Besides having a gift for communication he’s the type of guy who sees no conflict between a redneck and earrings or a delicate young woman and fierce tattoos or even the marriage between the two. His question becomes one of finding the common thread not defining restrictive limitations.

So, in the issue of who will be more able to successfully end the war, Obama might be the guy who can ask of those who fear failure, “What would be success?” When that is answered, success is easy. No one has asked that. Do we want a foreign policy or do we want to have on-going foreign relations. McKain is hardly the person we want developing foreign relations--he’s a Doctor Strangelove. If we want iron-handed foreign policy that brands other nations as either friend or enemy, then McKain’s the guy. If we want a leader who can come to terms with the other nations on this little earth and find ways to use our similarities to the advantage while allowing differences and respecting boundaries, Obama is our only hope. The ideas we have about other peoples, that muslims are superstitious and heinous, that French are complacent, weak and callous, that the Swedish have no joy from being taxed so highly, and that we alone amongst the peoples of the world are the happy, free, smart, and superior, then we will continue to be seen as dim-witted, overweight , narrow-minded imperialists.

Until we take a hand in specifying the context, the questions will be phrased in mind-control contexts. Besides, history shows that prior government experience is a flaw rather than an asset for a president.
.

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If the USA loses the Iraq War, The People of Iraq Win
Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 12, 2008 2:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The USA retreat from Vietnam lead the way for Vietnam to succeed. Today, she has an economy that is growing at a brisk pace. The country was able to unify and avoid a split after the US defeat. The US "solution" would have been what happened to Korea, with a good chunk of the country split off from the world. When the USA leaves Iraq, the people of Iraq will consolidate and decide how they want to move forward. If they merge part of the country into Iran or create Kurdistan, it will be because it is what the people want. Generally, what the USA wants with "victory" is to set-up it's own puppet government and a rich, ruling class. It ends up with 5% of the population owning most of the wealth and massive poverty for everybody else. This may help US elites, but does nothing for the people. Therefore, the US candidate who can pull US troops out of Iraq, and allow the USA to lose the war, succeeds for the Iraqi people. And, this is a success for the American people as we stop more billions of dollars from going down the "rathole," as well as the US lives saved.

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Assumption is the mother
Posted by: YogiBear on Mar 12, 2008 3:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article starts from the assumption that people are either illogical or lying about their answer that they think U.S. veteran John McCain would handle the existing war than the Democratic candidates. But the writer never backs up either assertion, making me wonder how clearly he is able to view the election with an unjaundiced eye. Just because someone wants us out of Iraq and is anti-war, doesn't mean there's only one way to go about it. Just like you can't assume that voters don't understand McCain is a hawk -- they may very well know that and still believe he'd handle a military crisis better than a non ex-POW.

But I doubt either consideration will have much of an effect on the actual tally; most who are anti-war aren't going to throw away their convictions that easily. I expect they'll vote their hearts and hope for the best.

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what is clinton and obama's "iraq" message?
Posted by: zeroman on Mar 12, 2008 3:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
someone who commented up at the top said that Clinton and Obama only say that they will "withdraw immediately" from Iraq, and that they "have no plan".

that's just not true. what they are saying, if anyone is listening (and not even really hard) is that they DO NOT plan to withdraw from iraq - they go on and on about "our national interests" and talk about a protracted withdrawal over a number of months that can turn into years, with all sorts of caveats about circumstances in which they will redeploy the troops.

that's NOT a withdrawal plan - it's a continuation of imperial meddling. and if no-one asked me to question the imperial nature of our presence in Iraq, and i had to choose between someone who straight out supports empire, and someone who waffles about it, i would probably vote for the one who beats the loudest drum.

The Democrats can win on Iraq too - if they said, clearly, that WE DO NOT BELONG THERE, the Iraqis don't want us there, and the American people don't want us there. And, finally, that we as a country will be SAFER if we get the hell out of the Middle East and give up our goal of controlling the world's oil supplies.

unfortunately, they don't say any such thing, because they believe no such thing - the plan is to continue to exert imperial power but give it a friendlier face. look at their positions on Israel, for crying out loud!

What we need to worry about is not whether a Dem or a Rep will be in office, but about whether we as a people will be organized and active enough to force WHOEVER is in office to end imperialist practice.

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It's the framing
Posted by: leafsong1 on Mar 12, 2008 4:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democrats will find it hard to win by running against the war until they actually start running against the war. THE WAR ITSELF IS IMMORAL. Not the lies that Democrats feebly and implausibly claim led them to vote for it. Not the mismanagement that led them to support it for five years. Not the American blood and money that is spent on it. THE WAR ITSELF. Their position is contradictory and irrational, and people can't make sense of it.

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Al sadr broke the truse today
Posted by: wishninja on Mar 12, 2008 5:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Mahdi Army again started up its Jihad machine. Lets have another look at those polls again in a few months when the nasty war begins all over again. They put McCain up there because they know already that they are going to spread this war. Americans either can accept more war of reject it. I think that there are allot of people that will be motivated enough to vote against another unjustified war and against free trade with Columbia.

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If I promise to immediately start a nuclear war will you elect me?
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Mar 12, 2008 6:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is "tougher" than any major candidate running, including that peace-loving wimp McCain.

I guarantee a war that gets nearly all of us killed. No one can be tougher than that!!

I will start attacking everyone and everything America. So elect me!!!

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There is no freakin solution except secession
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Mar 12, 2008 7:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gotta get some states out of the US of freakin fascist Amerika. Please Vermont, lead the way. Come on New England, 240 years ago you lead the way for real freedom, could you do it again?? California? The repubs say you are low-life. Time to fight back and tear away the coastal power of the militarists.

Then the US would be so preoccupied with the internal problems, it would be in no position to continue it's campaign of aggression against the rest of the planet. This would save the lives of thousands, maybe millions, of people who will die at the hands of that bloodthirsty lunatic McCain.

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sblar
Posted by: larryfhilton on Mar 12, 2008 11:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WANT TO WIN? TAKE A PAGE FROM ROVE'S PLAYBOOK
Whatever else, Karl Rove is smart, and when the public believes the opponent has more character than his guy, he takes the opponent head on and attacks his strong point--character. That has won for his guys, and will win for the Dems this time, especially in view of the way McCain has rolled over, and over, and over, for the far right, clear up to the torture issue, which is what convinced me that the man no longer has any character. That, and other examples, can even convince our rather stupid electorate, if repeated over, and over, and over again!

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No surrender -- when fools rush in!
Posted by: LLMystic on Mar 13, 2008 1:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even military strategists (real ones) understand that in some cases retreat (not surrender in this case, which is just more neo-con Newspeak), is the best and only sound option. Whether one believes the Iraq imperial adventure was always wrong, as I do, or merely that it has gone badly, as some of the comments here imply, it is clear that the occupation is not achieving anything useful militarily or even in terms of imperial ambitions.

At the least, if imperialism is accepted as the objective, the better strategy would be to withdraw the US forces to the new military bases, which can probably be defended adequately, and let the Iraqis sort out their differences.

We can hope that eventually a new dictator will emerge. For as nasty as Saddam Hussein was, he did manage to keep relative order in a "country" which has no real national identity and where tribal and family loyalty is far more important to the people. And though he killed a lot of people to do it, I suspect he killed a lot fewer than the US has. Even if one thinks oil is the objective, the US can not even keep the oil flowing! It would have been far cheaper to let Saddam Hussein run the oil industry, and we would have gotten a lot more oil out of Iraq!

The US has ruined that option. But it is clear that sending more Americans to die and depleting our national wealth is not doing any good for Americans (except for the arms merchants and war profiteers -- and do we really want to enrich these thugs?)

If Iraq splits up into smaller states (as Yugoslavia did when its strong leader Tito died), maybe that is what the people want. After all, Iraq is a colonial creation, never a real country. Why shouldn't the Kurds and Sunnis and Shiites have their own states?

My answer to the "No surrender" rhetoric is to point out the usual cost of such stupidity, which is death and destruction and ruin. That it is just another neo-con lie should also be emphasized. Though I am not sure Americans, many of whom prefer self-deception, even recognize lies any more.

People get the government they deserve! And judging by the government we have been getting, Americans have been very very naughty!

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I don't know if I could stand it.
Posted by: scootenat65 on Mar 13, 2008 7:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we have to be afraid - very afraid for another 8 years I don't think I could stand it.
But just in case I am fitting my grandchildren for desert camo uniforms and buying stock in China.

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such crap
Posted by: grkjr on Mar 13, 2008 8:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hard to believe that real people still imagine up these kind of results via polls.. to think people are so stupid.... you get what you want out of polls much like the accountant does from cooking the books... if the domcrats continue to play chicken, as they have for 7 years, then yes they can loose.. If they change the dabate to: Only a real man can admit when he is wrong and call the republicans cowards for not being able to admit their mistake and the disceptions preseneted for going to war. And now the only honorable thing to do is withdraw, and if you disagree you are unpatroitic, a fool and and coward.... after all who but a coward would continue to occupy a country whose citizens do not want us there. Are we there just because we are stronger and want to steal their oil.. etc etc. On the other hand if the public is as stupid as this article portrays. then "bring it on" let us stew in our own makings...the track is laid and we will hit bottom before it turns on its own.

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My Friends
Posted by: cherylholmes on Mar 13, 2008 10:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doesn't it make anyone else want to puke when you hear McCain spew these words all the time when he's addressing rallys?

He is NOT my friend and will never be.

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The simplest and likely more accurate explanation is
Posted by: be_fearless on Mar 14, 2008 12:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that voters just don't know McCain yet, because the general election hasn't really started. Once enough voters realize he represents more war(s), they will reject him. The media has enabled McCain to keep the illusion that he's moderate when he's anything but, and I don't expect them to change in that regard. It will be up to the Dem candidate. Obama consistently polls ahead of McCain and he hasn't even begun to tear apart his "No Surrender" slogan as a big fat falsehood. I don't trust the media to tell us the truth about McCain, and I'm pretty sure Clinton would bungle it and fall right into his hands trying to be McCain-lite (i.e. I'm just as tough as he is, really!), but Obama on the other hand, I think he has a proven talent for persuasion. Perhaps it won't be enough and perhaps it will, but I think it's well within his power to win those majority anti-war voters.

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Write In Ron Paul
Posted by: ronheri on Mar 15, 2008 1:55 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ron Paul was the only candidate who voted against this illegal war, and is by far the only one who has a chance of fixing our economy.

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oxheadone
Posted by: oxheadone on Mar 16, 2008 12:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain is an angry, frustrated man, still trying to win the Vietnam war. His military experience is that he spent virtually all the Vietnam war as a prisoner and was tortured. He has taken independent stands vs some of the stupidest Bushy ideas, which does not make him a person of 'character', just means that he not as stupid as the general Bushy lovers. He has used his office to defend criminals (the savings and loan crisis). An assult on his character would cause him to blow up in public debate. If the democrats don't self-destruct in this primary contest, McCain is beatable. By the way, we can successfully occupy Iraq idefinitely; it would require a draft to raise a half-million man army and heavy taxes. It probably would also require a substantial reduction in the US standard of living and a semi-dictatorship. Following the Bush policies for another eight years would bring us closer to a banana republic more slowly.

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Character - Yeah, McCain is a Character, All Right
Posted by: wilty on Mar 16, 2008 6:18 PM   
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McCain, ""Bomb, Bomb Iran..." Man - man who sleeps around, does dirty dealings with the
Corporate Fascist Pigs, and who has a temper problem, and at his age, is not reliable, nor is he a MAN, in my book, and for that matter, nor was John Wayne. What a hypeload of crap!

For an advanced society such as ours(?), I feel it is still deeply fixed in mythology, superstition and ignorance.

This isn't about the character of the man, it is about the mind and character of the people who are "anti-war," but pro, stay the course, in every sense of the term.

Here's a mind blow postulate: If Bush were to attack Iran, and this is certainly not a stretch; the same people would say boo, but then re-elect the sumbitch, if for some godforsaken turn of events were to happen, for a third term.

Same reasoning by the author for this postulate, and it all boils down to the totally misinformed, lazy and arrogant people who perpetuaute this God awful nightmare. Also, the Media only take this crap, and then quite ably supermaxes and synergizes it.

Anyone who dare tells the truth around here, is shot down and told to shut up. Jimmy Carter was right about the apathetic citizenry during his day, he got shot down. If Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson were to stand up and tell the truth as it horribly is so, they'd be tarred and feathered, and run out of town.

It's the fascism, stupid!

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» RE: right on, Wil Posted by: GrannyBgood
Pathetic!
Posted by: GrannyBgood on Mar 21, 2008 7:25 AM   
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I guess it's true, then, that Americans deserve the lousy leadership they get, and all the ensuing ills that come with it!

If the Dems don't get their act together, show how it's REALLY going in Iraq, and wake people up, tie that Bushwar Albatross firmly around McCain's neck,
(singing BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN all the way!)
We'll have lost this one too!
...except it will be worse, because Warmonger McCain will already START OUT with all the dictatorial powers Bush spent his 2 terms amassing!

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Red, White, Screwed
Posted by: independent1 on Mar 23, 2008 10:59 PM   
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Sorry to borrow from Louis Black with my title but it fits. What we may be seeing is another kind of crisis for America: no worthy candidates for the highest office.

OTH - I think the general points made in the article apply: The Republicans have always been the minority party- only Eisenhower and Reagan managed to "include" the American people or had any sense of duty toward us. The rest - including both Bush regimes, have all been purely corporate puppets, as have been most of the Republicans in both houses of Congress.

Trouble is - according to this article and many people; the Dems have (a) no electable candidates for the White House and (2) are tied to the ninny ('get out at any cost - just like '75') peaceniks as much as the Republicans are tied to the whacko neo-cons and religious right.

Hope is not gone, I agree that the economy must be kept at the forefront and focus must be kept on the many ways Republicans have undercut and betrayed the American people (and thereby - America!).

I recently had "an ordinary American" go after me because I had sent around an email in which I said "we can thank the Republicans" - for the ease with which American companies can lay off American employees (compared to foreign employees). She went on about how our Democratic governor had committed a crime against our economy with her "small business tax." Hah ! - I sent her a copy of a 1995 economics lecture which discussed the very same tax which the current governor was accused of creating! This "rebuttal" from a defender of Republicanism came from: an accountant!! She sure isn't a historian - and that is why we must worry about Mr. and Mrs.
Average Voter.

The Republicans know they have no choice but to lie-lie-lie and lie some more to win elections (just as they did to win the last two). It is up to those who want America to at least survive in better shape than Mexico to see to it they do not win the next election - the White House or either house of Congress. They must be taught a lesson - using this election cycle to do it.

Mr. Obama, by the way - has not said anything like the "get out now" crap being promoted by the peaceniks. That alone recommends him for the Dem candidacy and the White House.

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