COMMENTS: 140
America Loves Peace? Odd, Since We're Always at War
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Unfortunately, you can count in nanoseconds how long those assertions hold up when exposed to such insidious commie dirty tricks as the application of logic or the examination of empirical history.
Sure, any war can be spun as some necessity against some Very Bad Person, preferably of brown skin, slanted eyes and/or differing deity. Not only can any war be so spun, probably every war there ever was has been, at least since the days when governments had to start offering some justification or another for their little foreign adventures.
But pick your barometer -- any one will work -- and you'll quickly see who the militant folks on the planet really are. For America, it turns out -- gulp -- to be that bloated, frightened meth-addict staring back at us in the mirror, not some overseas evil emperor du jour.
For example, suppose you wanted to measure comparative national warlike tendencies by simply counting wars. Since World War II, the United States has messed around, in ways big and small, in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Lebanon, Grenada, Iraq, Panama, Colombia, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti, Afghanistan again, and Iraq again. No country in the world can begin to match this record in the last half-century. And I'm not even listing here the covert operations (almost everywhere), including the ones that toppled democratically elected governments (Iran, Guatemala, Chile, etc.), the long-term occupations of Latin American countries by the U.S. military, the gunboat diplomacy of the American Navy around the world, the aiding and abetting of other killers (Saddam invading Iran, for example, apartheid South Africa or the Israeli occupation of Palestine), the militarization of the oceans and of space, or the myriad other ways in which the United States leads the planet in aggressive tendencies. (For a whole century's worth of overseas fun -- not even counting the big stuff -- Stephen Kinzer's Overthrow is highly recommended reading.)
Who has China been invading lately? Russia? Fidel? Those perfidious (and perfumed) French? Heck, even Saddam couldn't touch this record for aggression, especially once you account for the fact that the U.S. government assisted his foreign soiree into Iran (complete with the chemical weapons, of course) and likely green-lighted the one into Kuwait as well. And let's even grant that one or two of those American adventures had some measure of altruism associated with them, as perhaps the Balkan or Somalian affairs might have (I'd like to know the full story before making that judgment). Isn't the sheer volume of them -- especially relative to the number of wars other countries have fought -- a bit problematic for maintaining the pretense of America's pacific intent? My conservative (in both senses of the word) list above goes to nearly 20. Isn't that a bit much for a peace-loving country?
But scratch that measure if you must (perhaps it cuts too close to the bone). Maybe we can detect America's dislike for war in another metric, say military spending. Oops. Turns out that's going to be a bit problematic, too. I guess it won't be a huge surprise to anybody that the United States spends more on "defense" than any other country in the world. But here's the truly scary part: The United States not only outspends every other country in the world on military goodies, it outspends ALL other countries of the world. Combined. That's right. Take all 190-plus countries out there and add together their defense budgets and you still won't equal America's alone. What's more, that doesn't even include the $100 billion or so that we're dropping each year in Iraq and Afghanistan, nor the additional costs in veterans' (so-called) care, munitions replacement and economic losses we have been hemorrhaging for those wars, which will continue, for decades to come, estimated to run up toward 2 trillion bucks total. (Oh, and did I mention that one-sixth of our population doesn't have healthcare coverage? Never mind. I'm sure those are completely unrelated facts.) Anyhow, does that sound like a peace-loving country to you? And think about this for a second: How absolutely disastrous does your diplomacy have to get so that you need to be able to fight off every other country of the world, all at once?!
OK, OK, so that one didn't work out so well either. The good news is that at least we don't make the world an uglier place by continually inventing new and more vicious weaponry. Not us peace-loving Americans! You know, like atom bombs, napalm, bunker-busters, cluster bombs, neutron bombs, space lasers, phosphorous bombs and stuff like that! Who would build such things? What kind of depraved mind would harness so much of its scientific and industrial establishment to such ends? Who would … er … um … Hey, wait a minute! What do you mean that we invented and manufactured all those things?!?! I thought we were the peace-loving people! Meanwhile, can I interest you in some depleted uranium at a very, very attractive price?
OK, but we must be good neighbors, really, because we're always the ones who are pushing for all sorts of international treaties to limit war, weapons and the worst practices of nasty governments. You know, for example, how we signed on to the United Nations Charter (which we more or less also wrote) and its requirement that states may use militarized aggression only in the case of self-defense or when authorized by the Security Council to do so in a collective security operation. Hey, sometimes we even comply with it! Or maybe you prefer the treaties against land mines, child soldiers or the weaponization of space, which we're pretty much the only folks not signing? The "quaint" and "obsolete" Geneva Conventions against torture and war crimes? How about the International Criminal Court, which John Bolton led the Bush administration into singlehandedly trying to destroy? Hmmm … Wonder why they would have wanted to get rid of that? Gee, I thought genocide and war crimes were bad things! America is the world leader in supporting human rights and seeking peace. So, remember, if you hear someone tell you that we've been abdicating, avoiding, ignoring and destroying all these (and myriad other) treaties that seek to end or prevent war, it's just the liberal America-hating media elites telling lies again, because they want us to lose our wars. (And why would they want that? That's easy! So some other country can march in, take away their enormously profitable media franchises, steal their mansions and yachts, and then hang them for treason and pillaging, of course. Who wouldn't trade their current set-up for that? Trust me, these guys know a good thing when they see it.)
Alright, alright, so it turns out that none of these measures of warlike tendencies turned out so very well. American is winning these contests about as often as is Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail. And with about as much grace, too. But at least the rest of the world thinks of us as nice, peaceful neighbors, right? Well, actually, they sometimes do! Just not now. And just not when we're, uh, engaged in most of our wars, which has been about half the time between World War II and the present. Vietnam wasn't exactly appreciated out there in the global community, and that opinion hasn't changed a whole lot, even after we've established a lovely little trading relationship with that same communist country that we once argued would be so dangerous if it went … er, well, communist. You know, like China! That's why we don't trade with them now, or -- perish the thought -- make ourselves vulnerable by allowing them to finance our national binge borrowing. No sense aiding and abetting the enemy, eh?
Sorry -- I digress. Despite ourselves, America is in fact sometimes admired in world opinion. But not when we play our war games. They can't stand America's duplicity, hypocrisy and arrogance when it comes to so many aspects of international diplomacy, including the aforementioned treaties we've avoided when we're not trying to destroy them. Yet nothing has so inflamed world opinion as the gross transgression against international law and human morality that is Iraq. International polls show that even our allies believe that "the United States contributes the most to world instability along with Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and North Korea," and that the U.S. presence in Iraq is considered a greater threat to peace than Iran going nuclear. America's standing in world opinion isn't the only measure of how comparatively warlike we are, but it certainly is a valid one. When everybody else in the neighborhood hates you, or hates something you do, it's a moment for a little reflection and introspection, isn't it? Unless, of course, you're just an asshole. Then, why bother?
I don't want to give the wrong impression. Much as I'd like to be, I'm not a pacifist, because I realize that there are genuinely bad actors out there who can't be tamed by a Dick Cheney charm offensive, or beaten into submission by a Condoleeza Rice piano sonata. I'm glad the U.S. military was there to stomp Hitler. Maybe even Korea, Bosnia and Kosovo could be justified as a response to aggression, though here it gets murkier. But Vietnam? No way. Today's Iraq war? Utterly shameful. The Mexican War? Spanish-American War? Cuba? Nicaragua? Guatemala? Grenada? Be serious. Way too often America's pacific intentions are harder to find than the elusive Higgs Boson particle. Probably you'd need a massive supercollider and a bunch of expensive detection equipment to do it, too.
And god knows I'm not blaming the troops for this. Indeed, too often they're the second victims (the truth being the first) of policymakers like Lyndon Johnson, George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton, for whom war is a game and people are pawns. When Bush says things like "This generation is rising to the challenge. We're looking at history, we understand our values, and we're laying that foundation of peace for generations to come," smart countries run like hell. Others just laugh and cut mineral rights deals.
Because of these monsters and the record they've created, Americans have to face an ugly and unfortunate fact. Despite what your sixth-grade civics teacher told you, we're not the white hats of the world. Or at least not often enough. We just like to think we are.
But thinking and being are, alas, two different things, as we found out going into Iraq -- thinking we'd be greeted with chocolates and flowers.
We may get them yet, however. Perhaps they'll be handed to us at the exit ramp, as the next president extricates a sobered United States from the disaster of its latest example of bringing love, American-style, to the world.
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Posted by: primalscream on Feb 28, 2008 12:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: audiodef
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Get real, chicago wants us to vote for a third party so that the rethugs can stay in office
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: How can anybody say there isn't a huge difference between the Democratic candidates and the
Posted by: johngary66
» It is what they do!
Posted by: williameon
» THINK? Thinking is what rational people do, not those...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: It is what they do!
Posted by: HoboHomo
» Please don't say we, dont say Americans
Posted by: nigelbest
» and it's a capitalist plan
Posted by: nigelbest
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: Vik
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: Vik
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: arjurg
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Posted by: ahmlco on Feb 28, 2008 1:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real problem is that American warfare is a business, and one that, by-and-large, is controlled and influenced not by government, but by business.
Since you mentioned Overthrow, we could start, as an example, with the overthrow of the Hawaiian Queen Liliuokalani from her throne in 1893 as a step toward annexing the islands and ensuring that local American plantation owners could maintain their sugar businesses. Ever heard of a little company named Dole?
Or Guatamala and United Fruit? Or the La Luz and Los Angles Mining Company's operations in Nicaragua? Or Exxon and Iraq?
Too many wars and "regime changes" are started when US-based corporations and businesses face sudden presure or rising discontent in foreign countries. Usually because they're taking out so much of the profit that the locals begin talking about nationalizing resources. And then business turns to their hired lackies in the government, who then turn to us, with often-repeated catchphrases like "national interests" or "national security" or guised as "saving" some countries citizens from "rebels" or "corrupt" governments.
When the only really corrupt government is our own.
The pattern is clear, unmistakeable, and repeated again and again and again. And we, to our shame, fall for it again and again.
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» RE: Just business...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Just business...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Just business...
Posted by: audiodef
» RE: You said it
Posted by: donl51
» RE: You said it
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» I also think the auther misses the point.
Posted by: yale
» RE: Just business...
Posted by: chaufan
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Posted by: gazooks on Feb 28, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody's got to do it, no? Somebody always has, rather domination by a Mao, Napoleon or Ghengis?
Look, even Kirk had to radiate a little photon aggression now and again, and that damned prime directive was often an inconvenience requiring interpretation.
As one who lives in a state utterly dependent on the defense dole for fiscal well being, I say... if the French don't like it, remind them of their own inconvenient historic truth and the fact that they're le pussies.
Let's not be pussies.
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» you know nothing of french history
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Jesuus, Spiff...
Posted by: gazooks
» sorry
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: sorry
Posted by: willymack
» That's right...........................
Posted by: steven w
» they had their own kick-ass revolution
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: they had their own kick-ass revolution
Posted by: HoboHomo
» pfft! my apologies, sir. and, french, please, thank you
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: read up on french history
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Let's Not Be Pussies...
Posted by: C the B
» RE: Let's Not Be Pussies...
Posted by: gazooks
» look at the mess my bad attitude earlier today caused
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: No Mess, (More or Less), Spiff...
Posted by: gazooks
» *tips beret*
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: skizum on Feb 28, 2008 2:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm in the process of reading a great book based on a lecture series by Bertrand Russell called "Authority And The Individual", 1948. What impresses me about this book is how his impressions of why the world is the way it is(was), stand true to the test of time.
The book starts out by describing the nature of conflict and war from early man through WWII and offers a perspective that is as accurately descriptive of the catalysts of conflict which are rooted in our own human nature and nurture. The book starts out by describing examples of man's propensity to have a constant rival and the motivating factors behind this need.
The titles of the chapters in this short volume are:
I. Social Cohesion and Human Nature
II. Social Cohesion and Government
III. The Role of individuality
IV. The Conflict of Technique and Human Nature
V. Control and initiative: their Respective Spheres
VI. Individual and social ethics
The deepest point that I perceived from Russell's volume is that we as individuals, and thus societies, have a strong intuitive nature to dominate [to gain control of resources]. This is not to say that domination is the only strong motivation of human nature but it does yield the highest potential for destruction and death via brute force and lack of compassion. War is a highly effective trump card.
Clearly, there are many other elements of human behavior that combined, in or out of balance, guide the future of our human race and for that matter most life on earth.
The big picture point is that we need to start to identify, understand, assess and balance the elements of our human nature so that we can socially evolve with the goal of creating a sustainably humane world.
This is, in fact, the strategy of my efforts with a project called The Universal Humane Needs Assessment. I believe that if we can learn, as individuals, how to balance our shared (perhaps universal) needs then we will put ourselves onto a path where we can find much more constructive ways to fulfill our basic needs including our need to dominate using the tools of war. Check out the project description and the current preliminary list of humane needs.
I understand that there is a ton of research out there ranging across many fields of study but we really need to bring it all together around a flexible framework in which we all can find a shared compassion to dominate our shared enemy, survival of the human race.
In any case, it's always a good idea to continue to raise your 'voice' and be heard regarding the opposition to war and so many other symptoms of the need to dominate...
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» human beings are animals- we delude ourselves to think we are not
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» "our lack of humanity or whatever that really is! ???
Posted by: Cathyc
» As long as we're killing weak babies, let's kill the retarded ones, the deaf ones, the blind ones,
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» I didn't think babies could BE religious idealogues
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I didn't think babies could BE religious idealogues
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: I didn't think babies could BE religious idealogues
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» Bertrand Russell wrong on this one - look at the logic
Posted by: nigelbest
» look at your own logic
Posted by: skizum
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Feb 28, 2008 4:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you produce a product, you need to find markets for it. With continual war not setting very well with the American people, coupled with the devalued dollar, countries around the world will now be able to buy American "weapons of destruction" for even less than before. Sounds like a recipe for perpetual war and mayhem, whether or not we're conducting it, to me.
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» Perpetual War and Mayhem is the stuff of lunatics --
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: America's mission: Combine "Chicago Boys" economic policy with government militarism
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
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Posted by: Don Pablo on Feb 28, 2008 4:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» the civilization that was to arise after our 'revolution' has never happened
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: the civilization that was to arise after our 'revolution' has never happened
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» i was hoping someone would be able to say, properly, that i am wrong
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: i was hoping someone would be able to say, properly, that i am wrong
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: the civilization that was to arise after our 'revolution' has never happened
Posted by: steven w
» my 'global' isn't part of 'globalization'
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: my 'global' isn't part of 'globalization'
Posted by: davewuxi
» pfft! "mankind is your business!"
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: pfft! "mankind is your business!"
Posted by: davewuxi
» exactly
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: mkdelta69 on Feb 28, 2008 4:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Author of the great novel War and Peace, Tolstoy is considered one of histories greatest thinkers on the issue of World Peace. He wrote many articles on the subject of peace--some involve actual letters from soldiers seeking advice. His message to soldiers still rings true: "You are a soldier...you have been brought to 'pacify'...it has been instilled in you that you are not responsible for the consequences of your shots. But you know that the man who falls bleeding from your shot is killed by you and by no one else..."
Tolstoy believed that "Armies will only be diminished and abolished when people cease to trust governments, and themselves seek salvation from the miseries that oppress them, and seek safety, not by the complicated and delicate [efforts] of diplomats, but in the simple fulfillment of that law binding upon every man, inscribed in all religious teachings, and present in every heart, not to do to others what you wish them not to do to you-above all not to slay your neighbors." (1896)
I don't see how you can protect and honor the soldier when even a moron can see that we were wrong in every way with the illegal invasion of Iraq and the fact that it may last for at least 8 more years if McCain is elected.
What is different about German troops fighting for Hitler or Japanese fighting for Tojo? WW 2 was fought for Empire. US won and now has to maintain it's "GRAND AREA". Using Project Paper Clip NAZIs to emulate the brutal tactics of NAZIs and the Japanese to conquer people that resisted.
Only problem is that with the knowledge of how that Empire is maintained. John Perkins "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man" people in our Grand Area are wising up to our methods of Empire. Corruption, using World Bank and IMF to undermine soverenty by creating debt and leveraging that to sweetheart deals on resources or submission to US strategic goals. Kind of reminds me of a movie I love "Patton". Patton's first victory over Rommel, "you magnificent bastard, I read your book," during his ambush at Kaserine pass. Chaves is using Noam Chomsky against us.
Chavez and others in Latin America,google (Grand Area) are cutting the shackles with their own banking systems and trading pacts. They will soon replace the dollar with the euro further eroding the control of the Evil Empire.
Evolve or die
We must devise win win social and economic models not elite win middle class and poor loose.
Or the elite will fall and it will be long hard and brutal.
HOW CAN YOU HONOR THE TROOPS AND END THE WAR? ESPECIALLY IF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX HAS INSULATED ITSELF FROM THE RULE OF LAW?
WILL IT TAKE ANOTHER COUNTRY LIKE RUSSIA OR CHINA? THE PEOPLE OPPOSED WERE NOT ABLE TO STOP HITLER OR TOJO.
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» RE: Support the troops?
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Support the troops?
Posted by: mkdelta69
» Religious teachings: Those who can do, those who can't - don't..
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: whealeydj on Feb 28, 2008 4:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xbj on Feb 28, 2008 4:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like my parents taught me when I fought with my brother, it takes two to fight.
When one side stops fighting because it's been decimated, it doesn't end the fight; it only postpones it. Payback (blowback) is a bitch. The British Empire understood this, until they were blackmailed (Mad Cow biowarfare and US-sponsored terrorism) and co-opted by the fascist US back into Imperialism.
One side has to be choose to be TRULY greater than the other; and the path to true greatness is not through victory, but surrender when you have the overwhelming advantage.
When one side stops fighting because it no longer wishes to conquer, but chooses instead to share, then, and only then, can TRUE peace happen.
The US isn't there yet; it probably will never get there. There is simply too much wealth to be generated off the spilling of innocent blood for those amoral enough to partake. Which is why Amerika's fate will be that of every other World Empire before it; utter annihilation at the combined hands of everyone else on the planet.
Payback (blowback) is a bitch. The single-most important lesson in all of human history.
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» RE: Peace only happens when one side stops fighting....110%
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Peace only happens when one side stops fighting
Posted by: rickiey
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Posted by: Patti on Feb 28, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Stop the madness
Posted by: yale
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Posted by: Abe on Feb 28, 2008 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That, we have been going to war
Eleven times we said, “For freedom!”
Was, what we were fighting for.
We’ve spent two, point, six trillion
But that was just a petty cost
Compared to all of the spent lives
Of those loved ones, who were lost.
Thirty-two hundred plus, a month
For more than thirty-two years
The total time fighting our enemies
And more time, shedding our tears.
One and one quarter million dead
That’s more than fifteen every day
Since we went to war, “For freedom!”
In our Revolutionary way.
One and one half million wounded
For this Country of the Free
Although some of these losses
Were the Union’s and Confederacy.
But, all of them are Veterans
Who fought for what they believed
In their own way, doing battle
For those Freedoms, they perceived.
As of late, a Veteran’s definition
Has come from a different kind of War
For which we all, are conscripted
To help guard, our Freedom’s door.
Let’s Honor, each and every one
And though we may not know each name
They were so much more than numbers
In every Wartime’s deadly “game”.
And, each November eleventh
In the years, that come to be
Let’s hope someday, all People
Live in a land, where they are Free.
Let’s make Veteran’s Day a memory
And a part of days gone past
Learn to live with our Fellowman
In a Free World at Peace, at last.
Del “Abe” Jones
10-24-2003
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Posted by: g50 on Feb 28, 2008 5:26 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» Do you really want to add it up on all sides or are you just a troll?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: johnjmccarthy on Feb 28, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no excuse for aggressive, preemptive war. None! We hanged people for just that after WWII.
The War on Terror is The War on Truth. Self flaggellation and mutual masterbation are far less destructive. The reason for masturbation is hormonal. The reason for Terror is foreign policy.
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» RE: Waging War For Peace...
Posted by: fearn
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Posted by: xvictor on Feb 28, 2008 6:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: War is 4Ever!!
Posted by: holojojo
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 28, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
P.S.: Throw out both parties and replace them with pro-people INDEPENDENTS !! America has been stuck with the two-party duopoly for decades already. That said, the pols are free to ABUSE their power and as long as we all are going to shoot ourselves out and vote for one evil or the other, we're all LOSERS ! Let's start voting in pro-people pro-peace pols for a change ! Cindy Sheehan against Pelosi and Ralph Nader against both parties is a great start.
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 28, 2008 6:14 AM
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» RE: We're Doomed
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
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Posted by: JohnJlws on Feb 28, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've grown weary of the hypocrisy and weary of the arguments for war. I'd like us to put away our guns and start talking with even our perceived enemies. Of course the only candidate who is discussing this radical tactic is Obama and if nominated the right, the Swift Boat Christians for Truth, the McCain campaign will paint him as a muslim, communist, terrorist, homosexual, turbin-wearing pussy and we'll buy into the fear for votes campaign...again...and have another 8 years of the current moronic "leadership."
Let's all pray.
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» RE: Good Christian Hypocrisy: Most of us are too busy preying
Posted by: mclemens
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Posted by: steven w on Feb 28, 2008 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The military industrial complex
Posted by: holojojo
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Posted by: Spock on Feb 28, 2008 7:18 AM
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 28, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
President Dwight Eisenhower
Direct Democracy
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» Yup, one of the best public speeches ever given!!
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: brunowe on Feb 28, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This changed after WWII. The global reach we assumed led to the maintenance of a large standing army and a subsequently large defense industry. I suspect any image Americans may have of the US being a peaceful country may be confusing that with not having been a very militarized one for much of our history.
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Posted by: mjglow on Feb 28, 2008 8:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 28, 2008 8:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» ...except for their next lives, which will be either in Hell or as slugs ppl will pour salt on
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Feb 28, 2008 9:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Say what you will about the UK, but at least they're under few illusions about their history, imperialist desires, and intentions.
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Posted by: TheDreamer on Feb 28, 2008 9:13 AM
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For a tongue in cheek look at the main national pasttime rent or borrow Michael Moore's "Canadian Bacon"
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Posted by: DanoM on Feb 28, 2008 9:32 AM
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Until we can get our old squabbles with places like North Korea settled there will be no peace. We claim to be examples to the world, but won't drop old declarations of war. What kind of a country are we trying to run?
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» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: radiomorning
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Posted by: Gazette del Popolo on Feb 28, 2008 10:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Killing Hope"
US Military and CIA Interventions Since WW2
by, William Blum
2004
(along with scores of others on the conduct of the US in this world)
Just remember how easily we have segued from, "Anti-Communism," to, "Anti-Terrorism."
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Posted by: rtihista on Feb 28, 2008 10:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
argument can be made that we are a "War loving nation" or at least our leaders are. Most of the wars beginning with the Spanish American War the majority of the American people opposed. But we seem powerless to do anything about it. Even today. The majority of the Iraqi people want us out as do the majority of the American people, so why are we there? We are there because we may not have the democracy we think we have and Republicans are busily tearing down what little democracy remains.
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» RE: Seminole War
Posted by: ceti
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Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 28, 2008 11:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The information I need is a serious estimate of whether the world needs some world cops (U.S. and Britain). Answering that in the negative is mere babble.
Who do you want to be world cops? That's why our military spending is enormous. It's the price we pay for retaining our sovereign right to make war. How long we can manage our current predicament is anybody's guess. But don't just throw the slop back in our faces, because the wind splatters you as well.
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» RE: My bad. I stopped reading half way through.
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: My bad. I stopped reading half way through.
Posted by: bcgirl125
» A "cop" that also claims to be judge and jury is just a criminal
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» Sorry friends. Still looking for my "serious estimate"
Posted by: Sojourner
» your 'serious estimate' comes back to the eternal question: why do we have 'war'
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Sorry friends. Still looking for my "serious estimate"
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 28, 2008 11:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the USA is serious about wanting peace, then it MUST cease all military expenditures; an eagle cannot fish and build its nest at the same time.
Besides, it's a hypocritical stance we attain to. New Zealand is a symbol of a land at peace. They have no nuclear weapons and hardly any enemies. New Zealand doesn't have an extensive network of bases all over the globe; we do.
Does Russia have air force bases in Japan? Germany? Saudi Arabia? Have they dropped cluster bombs in Serbia? Iraq? Did they establish a "no-fly zone" over a sovereign nation? The Eagle did. And somewhere during the course of flight he dropped his olive branch but held on to his arrows. And where the arrows fell chaos and bitterness ensued, and our relationship with those afflicted countries crumbled like an inexpensive bag of cookies.
No country can be for peace without a valid rationale to fight for it; ergo war is not an instrument for peace. To say we are a peace loving folk shouldn't have led us into so many disastrous fights since WWII. Since then peace remains an elusive goal of U.S. foreign policy. We don't have one.
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Posted by: radiomorning on Feb 28, 2008 2:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America began with a holocaust, was built on the backs of slaves, and has been perpetuated at the cost of millions of lives and many great ideas. Come to terms with the barbarianism of America and you no longer have to be a slave to patriotism.
'Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.' - Oscar Wilde
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Posted by: Cathyc on Feb 28, 2008 3:40 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yikes! Lemme outta here!
If you want to be truly free, you've got to face your own personal demons.
The personal is the collective...
There's nothing worse than being forced to eat a Diet of Worms. Study your REAL history!
PS. The trouble with America is that it is a country of full of people full of who are running away from from their own personal history, i.e., their own roots.
ROOTS! ROOTS! ROOTS!
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 28, 2008 5:13 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Much as I'd like to be, I'm not a pacifist, because I realize that there are genuinely bad actors out there...I'm glad the U.S. military was there to stomp Hitler."
Some analysis.
The worst of "bad actors" is America under corporate crime rule.
And who was it that bankrolled Hitler's war machine to power? Try American and British ruling class parasites. Big mistake but one founded and run on greed. American Fascists including Getty, Rockefeller and Bush funded Hitler almost to the end of WW2.
Got security?
Significant wars are always fought over public blood money for private power. Always. That's mass murder for profit. No global war has been fought over any other core motive. (minus the American Revolution, the same holds true for most "revolutions" usually financed and rigged by Fascist corporate money power)
That record includes the utter shams of WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War I, "war on terror", "war on drugs" and the 20 or so democracies the U.S. has overthrown since WW2.
Then – of course – there's 9/11 cover-up and its equally phony "war on terror".
Shall I go on?
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pizzmoe on Feb 28, 2008 10:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wisegalah on Feb 29, 2008 3:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And now you expect it to operate on the basis of truth/honesty/respect for the rights of others?
I admire your faith but .... fear that your hopes will be dashed.
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» ideals that were perverted for personal gain, not lies
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: rusey22 on Feb 29, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Your comment is naive or dishonest. Many here love war.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: brian boru on Feb 29, 2008 2:29 PM
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Posted by: radicalchic on Mar 1, 2008 3:50 PM
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totalitarianism we have now.america is the evil empire.
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Posted by: sayward2 on Mar 4, 2008 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.pakistannewtimes.com
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Posted by: Urban Myth #3 on Mar 4, 2008 6:00 PM
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Did they ever pay those Agent Orange victims (the US ones I mean) ?
Also Dave, why leave the Covert Operations out?
After all the one whose name has been emblazoned on the Bullet - along with all of those who received bullets addressed "To Whom It May Concern" will hardly care much which Representative of which US Govt. Department has fired it.
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Posted by: technocrat on Mar 4, 2008 6:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is only ONE way to end the heinous cycle of permanent death and destruction to support a debt-structured dominance by the major banking houses: ERASE THE DEBT. INVALIDATE THE MONEY SYSTEM THAT GIVES THEM THEIR POWER OVER WORLD AFFAIRS. Technology runs the world, and THEY control the technology. Dethrone the bankers by adopting a distribution system based on MEASUREMENT, not an exchange system based on highly corruptible finance. Take an inventory of the physical wealth of North America and allot to each citizen an irrevocable RIGHT to an equal share of physical production, as outlined by the Technocracy organization over seventy years ago.
Remove the blight of money gone worse than useless from our social structure and see how quickly the vast majority of our social and environmental problems will vanish (don't forget, many nations of the world are now trashing their environments to satisfy the insatiable maw of finance).
How much more free time could we have if we employed our technology efficiently and for the benefit of all, without debt to anyone? How much of our time is spent chasing that debt? We could all be working sixteen hour weeks or less, with an INCREASE in our standard of living: no money-related crime, no bills, no money-driven political corruption, NO WARS FOR PROFIT AND TO ENRICH THE BANKERS, no more lousy throwaway goods produced simply for sales turnover.
Check it out. www.technocracy.org. A not for profit, non-sectarian, non-political educational organization with a DESIGN, NOT JUST A HOPE for America's future.
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» LOVE of money...
Posted by: henderson
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Posted by: primalscream on Feb 28, 2008 12:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: audiodef
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Get real, chicago wants us to vote for a third party so that the rethugs can stay in office
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: How can anybody say there isn't a huge difference between the Democratic candidates and the
Posted by: johngary66
» It is what they do!
Posted by: williameon
» THINK? Thinking is what rational people do, not those...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: It is what they do!
Posted by: HoboHomo
» Please don't say we, dont say Americans
Posted by: nigelbest
» and it's a capitalist plan
Posted by: nigelbest
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: Vik
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: Vik
» RE: It is what we do
Posted by: arjurg
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Posted by: ahmlco on Feb 28, 2008 1:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real problem is that American warfare is a business, and one that, by-and-large, is controlled and influenced not by government, but by business.
Since you mentioned Overthrow, we could start, as an example, with the overthrow of the Hawaiian Queen Liliuokalani from her throne in 1893 as a step toward annexing the islands and ensuring that local American plantation owners could maintain their sugar businesses. Ever heard of a little company named Dole?
Or Guatamala and United Fruit? Or the La Luz and Los Angles Mining Company's operations in Nicaragua? Or Exxon and Iraq?
Too many wars and "regime changes" are started when US-based corporations and businesses face sudden presure or rising discontent in foreign countries. Usually because they're taking out so much of the profit that the locals begin talking about nationalizing resources. And then business turns to their hired lackies in the government, who then turn to us, with often-repeated catchphrases like "national interests" or "national security" or guised as "saving" some countries citizens from "rebels" or "corrupt" governments.
When the only really corrupt government is our own.
The pattern is clear, unmistakeable, and repeated again and again and again. And we, to our shame, fall for it again and again.
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» RE: Just business...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Just business...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Just business...
Posted by: audiodef
» RE: You said it
Posted by: donl51
» RE: You said it
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» I also think the auther misses the point.
Posted by: yale
» RE: Just business...
Posted by: chaufan
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Posted by: gazooks on Feb 28, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody's got to do it, no? Somebody always has, rather domination by a Mao, Napoleon or Ghengis?
Look, even Kirk had to radiate a little photon aggression now and again, and that damned prime directive was often an inconvenience requiring interpretation.
As one who lives in a state utterly dependent on the defense dole for fiscal well being, I say... if the French don't like it, remind them of their own inconvenient historic truth and the fact that they're le pussies.
Let's not be pussies.
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» you know nothing of french history
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Jesuus, Spiff...
Posted by: gazooks
» sorry
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: sorry
Posted by: willymack
» That's right...........................
Posted by: steven w
» they had their own kick-ass revolution
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: they had their own kick-ass revolution
Posted by: HoboHomo
» pfft! my apologies, sir. and, french, please, thank you
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: read up on french history
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Let's Not Be Pussies...
Posted by: C the B
» RE: Let's Not Be Pussies...
Posted by: gazooks
» look at the mess my bad attitude earlier today caused
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: No Mess, (More or Less), Spiff...
Posted by: gazooks
» *tips beret*
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: skizum on Feb 28, 2008 2:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm in the process of reading a great book based on a lecture series by Bertrand Russell called "Authority And The Individual", 1948. What impresses me about this book is how his impressions of why the world is the way it is(was), stand true to the test of time.
The book starts out by describing the nature of conflict and war from early man through WWII and offers a perspective that is as accurately descriptive of the catalysts of conflict which are rooted in our own human nature and nurture. The book starts out by describing examples of man's propensity to have a constant rival and the motivating factors behind this need.
The titles of the chapters in this short volume are:
I. Social Cohesion and Human Nature
II. Social Cohesion and Government
III. The Role of individuality
IV. The Conflict of Technique and Human Nature
V. Control and initiative: their Respective Spheres
VI. Individual and social ethics
The deepest point that I perceived from Russell's volume is that we as individuals, and thus societies, have a strong intuitive nature to dominate [to gain control of resources]. This is not to say that domination is the only strong motivation of human nature but it does yield the highest potential for destruction and death via brute force and lack of compassion. War is a highly effective trump card.
Clearly, there are many other elements of human behavior that combined, in or out of balance, guide the future of our human race and for that matter most life on earth.
The big picture point is that we need to start to identify, understand, assess and balance the elements of our human nature so that we can socially evolve with the goal of creating a sustainably humane world.
This is, in fact, the strategy of my efforts with a project called The Universal Humane Needs Assessment. I believe that if we can learn, as individuals, how to balance our shared (perhaps universal) needs then we will put ourselves onto a path where we can find much more constructive ways to fulfill our basic needs including our need to dominate using the tools of war. Check out the project description and the current preliminary list of humane needs.
I understand that there is a ton of research out there ranging across many fields of study but we really need to bring it all together around a flexible framework in which we all can find a shared compassion to dominate our shared enemy, survival of the human race.
In any case, it's always a good idea to continue to raise your 'voice' and be heard regarding the opposition to war and so many other symptoms of the need to dominate...
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» human beings are animals- we delude ourselves to think we are not
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» "our lack of humanity or whatever that really is! ???
Posted by: Cathyc
» As long as we're killing weak babies, let's kill the retarded ones, the deaf ones, the blind ones,
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» I didn't think babies could BE religious idealogues
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I didn't think babies could BE religious idealogues
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: I didn't think babies could BE religious idealogues
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» Bertrand Russell wrong on this one - look at the logic
Posted by: nigelbest
» look at your own logic
Posted by: skizum
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Feb 28, 2008 4:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you produce a product, you need to find markets for it. With continual war not setting very well with the American people, coupled with the devalued dollar, countries around the world will now be able to buy American "weapons of destruction" for even less than before. Sounds like a recipe for perpetual war and mayhem, whether or not we're conducting it, to me.
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» Perpetual War and Mayhem is the stuff of lunatics --
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: America's mission: Combine "Chicago Boys" economic policy with government militarism
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
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Posted by: Don Pablo on Feb 28, 2008 4:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» the civilization that was to arise after our 'revolution' has never happened
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: the civilization that was to arise after our 'revolution' has never happened
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» i was hoping someone would be able to say, properly, that i am wrong
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: i was hoping someone would be able to say, properly, that i am wrong
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: the civilization that was to arise after our 'revolution' has never happened
Posted by: steven w
» my 'global' isn't part of 'globalization'
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: my 'global' isn't part of 'globalization'
Posted by: davewuxi
» pfft! "mankind is your business!"
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: pfft! "mankind is your business!"
Posted by: davewuxi
» exactly
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: mkdelta69 on Feb 28, 2008 4:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Author of the great novel War and Peace, Tolstoy is considered one of histories greatest thinkers on the issue of World Peace. He wrote many articles on the subject of peace--some involve actual letters from soldiers seeking advice. His message to soldiers still rings true: "You are a soldier...you have been brought to 'pacify'...it has been instilled in you that you are not responsible for the consequences of your shots. But you know that the man who falls bleeding from your shot is killed by you and by no one else..."
Tolstoy believed that "Armies will only be diminished and abolished when people cease to trust governments, and themselves seek salvation from the miseries that oppress them, and seek safety, not by the complicated and delicate [efforts] of diplomats, but in the simple fulfillment of that law binding upon every man, inscribed in all religious teachings, and present in every heart, not to do to others what you wish them not to do to you-above all not to slay your neighbors." (1896)
I don't see how you can protect and honor the soldier when even a moron can see that we were wrong in every way with the illegal invasion of Iraq and the fact that it may last for at least 8 more years if McCain is elected.
What is different about German troops fighting for Hitler or Japanese fighting for Tojo? WW 2 was fought for Empire. US won and now has to maintain it's "GRAND AREA". Using Project Paper Clip NAZIs to emulate the brutal tactics of NAZIs and the Japanese to conquer people that resisted.
Only problem is that with the knowledge of how that Empire is maintained. John Perkins "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man" people in our Grand Area are wising up to our methods of Empire. Corruption, using World Bank and IMF to undermine soverenty by creating debt and leveraging that to sweetheart deals on resources or submission to US strategic goals. Kind of reminds me of a movie I love "Patton". Patton's first victory over Rommel, "you magnificent bastard, I read your book," during his ambush at Kaserine pass. Chaves is using Noam Chomsky against us.
Chavez and others in Latin America,google (Grand Area) are cutting the shackles with their own banking systems and trading pacts. They will soon replace the dollar with the euro further eroding the control of the Evil Empire.
Evolve or die
We must devise win win social and economic models not elite win middle class and poor loose.
Or the elite will fall and it will be long hard and brutal.
HOW CAN YOU HONOR THE TROOPS AND END THE WAR? ESPECIALLY IF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX HAS INSULATED ITSELF FROM THE RULE OF LAW?
WILL IT TAKE ANOTHER COUNTRY LIKE RUSSIA OR CHINA? THE PEOPLE OPPOSED WERE NOT ABLE TO STOP HITLER OR TOJO.
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» RE: Support the troops?
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Support the troops?
Posted by: mkdelta69
» Religious teachings: Those who can do, those who can't - don't..
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: whealeydj on Feb 28, 2008 4:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xbj on Feb 28, 2008 4:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like my parents taught me when I fought with my brother, it takes two to fight.
When one side stops fighting because it's been decimated, it doesn't end the fight; it only postpones it. Payback (blowback) is a bitch. The British Empire understood this, until they were blackmailed (Mad Cow biowarfare and US-sponsored terrorism) and co-opted by the fascist US back into Imperialism.
One side has to be choose to be TRULY greater than the other; and the path to true greatness is not through victory, but surrender when you have the overwhelming advantage.
When one side stops fighting because it no longer wishes to conquer, but chooses instead to share, then, and only then, can TRUE peace happen.
The US isn't there yet; it probably will never get there. There is simply too much wealth to be generated off the spilling of innocent blood for those amoral enough to partake. Which is why Amerika's fate will be that of every other World Empire before it; utter annihilation at the combined hands of everyone else on the planet.
Payback (blowback) is a bitch. The single-most important lesson in all of human history.
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» RE: Peace only happens when one side stops fighting....110%
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Peace only happens when one side stops fighting
Posted by: rickiey
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Posted by: Patti on Feb 28, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Stop the madness
Posted by: yale
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Posted by: Abe on Feb 28, 2008 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That, we have been going to war
Eleven times we said, “For freedom!”
Was, what we were fighting for.
We’ve spent two, point, six trillion
But that was just a petty cost
Compared to all of the spent lives
Of those loved ones, who were lost.
Thirty-two hundred plus, a month
For more than thirty-two years
The total time fighting our enemies
And more time, shedding our tears.
One and one quarter million dead
That’s more than fifteen every day
Since we went to war, “For freedom!”
In our Revolutionary way.
One and one half million wounded
For this Country of the Free
Although some of these losses
Were the Union’s and Confederacy.
But, all of them are Veterans
Who fought for what they believed
In their own way, doing battle
For those Freedoms, they perceived.
As of late, a Veteran’s definition
Has come from a different kind of War
For which we all, are conscripted
To help guard, our Freedom’s door.
Let’s Honor, each and every one
And though we may not know each name
They were so much more than numbers
In every Wartime’s deadly “game”.
And, each November eleventh
In the years, that come to be
Let’s hope someday, all People
Live in a land, where they are Free.
Let’s make Veteran’s Day a memory
And a part of days gone past
Learn to live with our Fellowman
In a Free World at Peace, at last.
Del “Abe” Jones
10-24-2003
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Posted by: g50 on Feb 28, 2008 5:26 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: Uh commenter dude
Posted by: g50
» Do you really want to add it up on all sides or are you just a troll?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: johnjmccarthy on Feb 28, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no excuse for aggressive, preemptive war. None! We hanged people for just that after WWII.
The War on Terror is The War on Truth. Self flaggellation and mutual masterbation are far less destructive. The reason for masturbation is hormonal. The reason for Terror is foreign policy.
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» RE: Waging War For Peace...
Posted by: fearn
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Posted by: xvictor on Feb 28, 2008 6:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: War is 4Ever!!
Posted by: holojojo
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 28, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
P.S.: Throw out both parties and replace them with pro-people INDEPENDENTS !! America has been stuck with the two-party duopoly for decades already. That said, the pols are free to ABUSE their power and as long as we all are going to shoot ourselves out and vote for one evil or the other, we're all LOSERS ! Let's start voting in pro-people pro-peace pols for a change ! Cindy Sheehan against Pelosi and Ralph Nader against both parties is a great start.
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 28, 2008 6:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We're Doomed
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
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Posted by: JohnJlws on Feb 28, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've grown weary of the hypocrisy and weary of the arguments for war. I'd like us to put away our guns and start talking with even our perceived enemies. Of course the only candidate who is discussing this radical tactic is Obama and if nominated the right, the Swift Boat Christians for Truth, the McCain campaign will paint him as a muslim, communist, terrorist, homosexual, turbin-wearing pussy and we'll buy into the fear for votes campaign...again...and have another 8 years of the current moronic "leadership."
Let's all pray.
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» RE: Good Christian Hypocrisy: Most of us are too busy preying
Posted by: mclemens
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Posted by: steven w on Feb 28, 2008 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The military industrial complex
Posted by: holojojo
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Posted by: Spock on Feb 28, 2008 7:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 28, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
President Dwight Eisenhower
Direct Democracy
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» Yup, one of the best public speeches ever given!!
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: brunowe on Feb 28, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This changed after WWII. The global reach we assumed led to the maintenance of a large standing army and a subsequently large defense industry. I suspect any image Americans may have of the US being a peaceful country may be confusing that with not having been a very militarized one for much of our history.
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Posted by: mjglow on Feb 28, 2008 8:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 28, 2008 8:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» ...except for their next lives, which will be either in Hell or as slugs ppl will pour salt on
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Feb 28, 2008 9:05 AM
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Say what you will about the UK, but at least they're under few illusions about their history, imperialist desires, and intentions.
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Posted by: TheDreamer on Feb 28, 2008 9:13 AM
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For a tongue in cheek look at the main national pasttime rent or borrow Michael Moore's "Canadian Bacon"
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Posted by: DanoM on Feb 28, 2008 9:32 AM
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Until we can get our old squabbles with places like North Korea settled there will be no peace. We claim to be examples to the world, but won't drop old declarations of war. What kind of a country are we trying to run?
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» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Correction - We have been at war constantly since June 25, 1950
Posted by: radiomorning
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Posted by: Gazette del Popolo on Feb 28, 2008 10:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Killing Hope"
US Military and CIA Interventions Since WW2
by, William Blum
2004
(along with scores of others on the conduct of the US in this world)
Just remember how easily we have segued from, "Anti-Communism," to, "Anti-Terrorism."
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Posted by: rtihista on Feb 28, 2008 10:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
argument can be made that we are a "War loving nation" or at least our leaders are. Most of the wars beginning with the Spanish American War the majority of the American people opposed. But we seem powerless to do anything about it. Even today. The majority of the Iraqi people want us out as do the majority of the American people, so why are we there? We are there because we may not have the democracy we think we have and Republicans are busily tearing down what little democracy remains.
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» RE: Seminole War
Posted by: ceti
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Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 28, 2008 11:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The information I need is a serious estimate of whether the world needs some world cops (U.S. and Britain). Answering that in the negative is mere babble.
Who do you want to be world cops? That's why our military spending is enormous. It's the price we pay for retaining our sovereign right to make war. How long we can manage our current predicament is anybody's guess. But don't just throw the slop back in our faces, because the wind splatters you as well.
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» RE: My bad. I stopped reading half way through.
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: My bad. I stopped reading half way through.
Posted by: bcgirl125
» A "cop" that also claims to be judge and jury is just a criminal
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» Sorry friends. Still looking for my "serious estimate"
Posted by: Sojourner
» your 'serious estimate' comes back to the eternal question: why do we have 'war'
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Sorry friends. Still looking for my "serious estimate"
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 28, 2008 11:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the USA is serious about wanting peace, then it MUST cease all military expenditures; an eagle cannot fish and build its nest at the same time.
Besides, it's a hypocritical stance we attain to. New Zealand is a symbol of a land at peace. They have no nuclear weapons and hardly any enemies. New Zealand doesn't have an extensive network of bases all over the globe; we do.
Does Russia have air force bases in Japan? Germany? Saudi Arabia? Have they dropped cluster bombs in Serbia? Iraq? Did they establish a "no-fly zone" over a sovereign nation? The Eagle did. And somewhere during the course of flight he dropped his olive branch but held on to his arrows. And where the arrows fell chaos and bitterness ensued, and our relationship with those afflicted countries crumbled like an inexpensive bag of cookies.
No country can be for peace without a valid rationale to fight for it; ergo war is not an instrument for peace. To say we are a peace loving folk shouldn't have led us into so many disastrous fights since WWII. Since then peace remains an elusive goal of U.S. foreign policy. We don't have one.
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Posted by: radiomorning on Feb 28, 2008 2:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America began with a holocaust, was built on the backs of slaves, and has been perpetuated at the cost of millions of lives and many great ideas. Come to terms with the barbarianism of America and you no longer have to be a slave to patriotism.
'Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.' - Oscar Wilde
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Posted by: Cathyc on Feb 28, 2008 3:40 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yikes! Lemme outta here!
If you want to be truly free, you've got to face your own personal demons.
The personal is the collective...
There's nothing worse than being forced to eat a Diet of Worms. Study your REAL history!
PS. The trouble with America is that it is a country of full of people full of who are running away from from their own personal history, i.e., their own roots.
ROOTS! ROOTS! ROOTS!
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 28, 2008 5:13 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Much as I'd like to be, I'm not a pacifist, because I realize that there are genuinely bad actors out there...I'm glad the U.S. military was there to stomp Hitler."
Some analysis.
The worst of "bad actors" is America under corporate crime rule.
And who was it that bankrolled Hitler's war machine to power? Try American and British ruling class parasites. Big mistake but one founded and run on greed. American Fascists including Getty, Rockefeller and Bush funded Hitler almost to the end of WW2.
Got security?
Significant wars are always fought over public blood money for private power. Always. That's mass murder for profit. No global war has been fought over any other core motive. (minus the American Revolution, the same holds true for most "revolutions" usually financed and rigged by Fascist corporate money power)
That record includes the utter shams of WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War I, "war on terror", "war on drugs" and the 20 or so democracies the U.S. has overthrown since WW2.
Then – of course – there's 9/11 cover-up and its equally phony "war on terror".
Shall I go on?
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pizzmoe on Feb 28, 2008 10:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wisegalah on Feb 29, 2008 3:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And now you expect it to operate on the basis of truth/honesty/respect for the rights of others?
I admire your faith but .... fear that your hopes will be dashed.
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» ideals that were perverted for personal gain, not lies
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: rusey22 on Feb 29, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Your comment is naive or dishonest. Many here love war.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: brian boru on Feb 29, 2008 2:29 PM
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Posted by: radicalchic on Mar 1, 2008 3:50 PM
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totalitarianism we have now.america is the evil empire.
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Posted by: sayward2 on Mar 4, 2008 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.pakistannewtimes.com
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Posted by: Urban Myth #3 on Mar 4, 2008 6:00 PM
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Did they ever pay those Agent Orange victims (the US ones I mean) ?
Also Dave, why leave the Covert Operations out?
After all the one whose name has been emblazoned on the Bullet - along with all of those who received bullets addressed "To Whom It May Concern" will hardly care much which Representative of which US Govt. Department has fired it.
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Posted by: technocrat on Mar 4, 2008 6:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is only ONE way to end the heinous cycle of permanent death and destruction to support a debt-structured dominance by the major banking houses: ERASE THE DEBT. INVALIDATE THE MONEY SYSTEM THAT GIVES THEM THEIR POWER OVER WORLD AFFAIRS. Technology runs the world, and THEY control the technology. Dethrone the bankers by adopting a distribution system based on MEASUREMENT, not an exchange system based on highly corruptible finance. Take an inventory of the physical wealth of North America and allot to each citizen an irrevocable RIGHT to an equal share of physical production, as outlined by the Technocracy organization over seventy years ago.
Remove the blight of money gone worse than useless from our social structure and see how quickly the vast majority of our social and environmental problems will vanish (don't forget, many nations of the world are now trashing their environments to satisfy the insatiable maw of finance).
How much more free time could we have if we employed our technology efficiently and for the benefit of all, without debt to anyone? How much of our time is spent chasing that debt? We could all be working sixteen hour weeks or less, with an INCREASE in our standard of living: no money-related crime, no bills, no money-driven political corruption, NO WARS FOR PROFIT AND TO ENRICH THE BANKERS, no more lousy throwaway goods produced simply for sales turnover.
Check it out. www.technocracy.org. A not for profit, non-sectarian, non-political educational organization with a DESIGN, NOT JUST A HOPE for America's future.
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» LOVE of money...
Posted by: henderson
Vancouver's Games Will Be the Gayest Olympics Ever
Beer Battles: Workers in Belgium Take on Brewing Giant
White "Savior-Afflicted" Christians, Black Haitian Babies: This Won't End Well




