COMMENTS: 166
White House Leak: Cheney's Plan for Iran Attack Starts With Israeli Missile Strike
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In the scenario concocted by Cheney's strategists, Washington's first step would be to convince Israel to fire missiles at Iran's uranium enrichment plant in Natanz. Tehran would retaliate with its own strike, providing the US with an excuse to attack military targets and nuclear facilities in Iran.
This information was leaked by an official close to the vice president. Cheney himself hasn't denied engaging in such war games. For years, in fact, he's been open about his opinion that an attack on Iran, a member of US President George W. Bush's "Axis of Evil," is inevitable.
Given these not-too-secret designs, Democrats and Republicans alike have wondered what to make of the still mysterious Israeli bombing run in Syria on Sept. 6. Was it part of an existing war plan? A test run, perhaps? For days after the attack, one question dominated conversation at Washington receptions: How great is the risk of war, really?
Grandiose Plans, East and West
In the September strike, Israeli bombers were likely targeting a nuclear reactor under construction, parts of which are alleged to have come from North Korea. It is possible that key secretaries in the Bush cabinet even tried to stop Israel. To this day, the administration has neither confirmed nor commented on the attack.
Nevertheless, in Washington, Israel's strike against Syria has revived the specter of war with Iran. For the neoconservatives it could represent a glimmer of hope that the grandiose dream of a democratic Middle East has not yet been buried in the ashes of Iraq. But for realists in the corridors of the State Department and the Pentagon, military action against Iran is a nightmare they have sought to avert by asking a simple question: "What then?"
The Israeli strike, or something like it, could easily mark the beginning of the "World War III," which President Bush warned against last week. With his usual apocalyptic rhetoric, he said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could lead the region to a new world war if his nation builds a nuclear bomb.
Conditions do look ripe for disaster. Iran continues to acquire and develop the fundamental prerequisites for a nuclear weapon. The mullah regime receives support -- at least moral support, if not technology -- from a newly strengthened Russia, which these days reaches for every chance to provoke the United States. President Vladimir Putin's own (self-described) "grandiose plan" to restore Russia's armed forces includes a nuclear buildup. The war in Iraq continues to drag on without an end in sight or even an opportunity for US troops to withdraw in a way that doesn't smack of retreat. In Afghanistan, NATO troops are struggling to prevent a return of the Taliban and al-Qaida terrorists. The Palestinian conflict could still reignite on any front.
In Washington, Bush has 15 months left in office. He may have few successes to show for himself, but he's already thinking of his legacy. Bush says he wants diplomacy to settle the nuclear dispute with Tehran, and hopes international pressure will finally convince Ahmadinejad to come to his senses. Nevertheless, the way pressure has been building in Washington, preparations for war could be underway.
In late September, the US Senate voted to declare the 125,000-man Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization. High-ranking US generals have accused Iran of waging a "proxy war" against the United States through its support of Shiite militias in Iraq. And strategists at the Pentagon, apparently at Cheney's request, have developed detailed plans for an attack against Tehran.
Instead of the previous scenario of a large-scale bombardment of the country's many nuclear facilities, the current emphasis is, once again, on so-called surgical strikes, primarily against the quarters of the Revolutionary Guards. This sort of attack would be less massive than a major strike against Iran's nuclear facilities.
Conservative think tanks and pundits who sense this could be their last chance to implement their agenda in the Middle East have supported and disseminated such plans in the press. Despite America's many failures in Iraq, these hawks have urged the weakened president to act now, accusing him of having lost sight of his principal agenda and no longer daring to apply his own doctrine of pre-emptive strikes.
Sheer Lunacy?
The notion of war with Iran has spilled over into other circles, too. Last Monday Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic Speaker of the US House of Representatives, made it clear that the president would first need Congressional approval to launch an attack. Meanwhile, Republican candidates for the White House have debated whether they would even allow such details to get in their way. Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney said he would consult his attorneys to determine whether the US Constitution does, in fact, require a president to ask for Congressional approval before going to war. Vietnam veteran John McCain said war with Iran was "maybe closer to reality than we are discussing tonight."
Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton has also adopted a hawkish stance, voting in favor of the Senate measure to classify the Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization. Her rivals criticized Clinton for giving the administration a blank check to go to war.
The US military is building a base in Iraq less than 10 kilometers (about six miles) from Iran's border. The facility, known as Combat Outpost Shocker, is meant for American soldiers preventing Iranian weapons from being smuggled into Iraq. But it's also rumored that Bush authorized US intelligence agencies in April to run sabotage missions against the mullah regime on Iranian soil.
Gary Sick is an expert on Iran who served as a military adviser under three presidents. He believes that such preparations mark a significant shift in the government's strategy. "Since August," says Sick, "the emphasis is no longer on the Iranian nuclear threat," but on Iran's support for terrorism in Iraq. "This is a complete change and is potentially dangerous."
It would be relatively easy for Bush to prove that Tehran, by supporting insurgents in Iraq, is responsible for the deaths of American soldiers. It might be harder to prove that Iran's nuclear plans pose an immediate threat to the world. Besides, the nuclear argument is reminiscent of an embarrassing precedent, when the Bush administration used the claim that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction -- which he didn't -- as a reason to invade Iraq. Even if the evidence against Tehran proves to be more damning, the American public will find it difficult to swallow this argument again.
The forces urging a diplomatic resolution also look stronger than they were before Iraq. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice wants the next step to be a third round of even tighter sanctions against Iran in the UN Security Council. Rice has powerful allies at the Pentagon: Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Admiral William Fallon, head of US Central Command, which is responsible for American forces throughout the region.
Rice and her cohorts all favor diplomacy, partly because they know the military is under strain. After four years in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US lacks manpower for another major war, especially one against a relatively well-prepared adversary. "For many senior people at the Pentagon, the CIA and the State Department, a war would be sheer lunacy," says security expert Sick.
Bruce Riedel, a former CIA officer and now a Middle East expert at the Brookings Institution, agrees. A war against Tehran would be "a disaster for the entire world," says Riedel, who worries about a "battlefield extending from the Mediterranean to the Indian subcontinent." Nevertheless, he believes there is a "realistic risk of a military conflict," because both sides look willing to carry things to the brink.
On the one hand, says Riedel, Iran is playing with fire, challenging the West by sending weapons to Shiite insurgents in Iraq. On the other hand, hotheads in Washington are by no means powerless. Although many neoconservative hawks have left the Bush administration, Cheney remains their reliable partner. "The vice president is the closest adviser to the president, and a dominant figure," says Riedel. "One shouldn't underestimate how much power he still wields."
'Is it 1938 Again?'
Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit to Tehran last week also played into the hands of hardliners in Washington, who read it as proof that Putin isn't serious about joining the West's effort to convince Tehran to abandon its drive for a nuclear weapon. Moreover, the countries bordering the Caspian Sea, including Central Asian nations Washington has courted energetically in recent years, have said they would not allow a war against Tehran to be launched from their territory.
Cheney derives much of his support from hawks outside the administration who fear their days are as numbered as the President's. "The neocons see Iran as their last chance to prove something," says analyst Riedel. This aim is reflected in their tone. Conservative columnist Norman Podhoretz, for example -- a father figure to all neocons -- wrote in the Wall Street Journal that he "hopes and prays" that Bush will finally bomb Iran. Podhoretz sees the United States engaged in a global war against "Islamofascism," a conflict he defines as World War IV, and he likens Iran to Nazi Germany. "Is it 1938 again?" he asks in a speech he repeats regularly at conferences.
Podhoretz is by no means an eccentric outsider. He now serves as a senior foreign-policy adviser to Republican presidential candidate Rudolph Giuliani. President Bush has also met with Podhoretz at the White House to hear his opinions.
Nevertheless, most experts in Washington warn against attacking Tehran. They assume the Iranians would retaliate. "It would be foolish to believe surgical strikes will be enough," says Riedel, who believes that precision attacks would quickly escalate to war.
Former presidential adviser Sick thinks Iran would strike back with terrorist attacks. "The generals of the Revolutionary Guard have had several years to think about asymmetrical warfare," says Sick. "They probably have a few rather interesting ideas."
According to Sick, detonating well-placed bombs at oil terminals in the Persian Gulf would be enough to wreak havoc. "Insurance costs would skyrocket, causing oil prices to triple and triggering a global recession," Sick warns. "The economic consequences would be enormous, far greater than anything we have experienced with Iraq so far."
Because the catastrophic consequences of an attack on Iran are obvious, many in Washington have a fairly benign take on the current round of saber rattling. They believe the sheer dread of war is being used to bolster diplomatic efforts to solve the crisis and encourage hesitant members of the United Nations Security Council to take more decisive action. The Security Council, this argument goes, will be more likely to approve tighter sanctions if it believes that war is the only alternative.
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: compu on Oct 26, 2007 12:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=869
-- from a newly strengthened Russia, which these days reaches for every chance to provoke the United States. President Vladimir Putin's own (self-described) "grandiose plan" to restore Russia's armed forces inclu
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» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger
Posted by: hot karlrove
» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger - When Bush "looked into Putin's eyes"
Posted by: UnEasyOne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Susan Kipping on Oct 26, 2007 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our Congress and Senate are in on this. It is difficult for people to believe. But stop and think about what has been happening. Look at the craziness all around us and we can't seem to do a thing about it. Our economy, these wars, our rights, our constitution, our media; all out of control. There is no war on drugs. Drugs, guns and oil are big business. There is not war on poverty. There is no war on Terrorism. There is only a war on us.
We need to impeach Bush and Cheney now. This will start an investigation into other problems were are having. Possibly the answers around 9/11 will become available. People need to be held accountable. Enough excuses from our officials. We need action now. The '08 election is not going to solve a thing. It is too far away and will have let this administration off the hook without answering for their actions (crimes).
Impeach.
» RE: It is time to STOP the insanity.
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: It is time to STOP the insanity. Hillary is also queen of...
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: The time for impeachment has passed, Susan.
Posted by: scott balogh
» Jefferson and the Declaration
Posted by: daytripper
» Also, Jefferson:
Posted by: justAnEgg
» Jefferson would know, "we're not in Kansas anymore"
Posted by: amacd
» RE: The time for impeachment has passed, Susan.
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: The time for impeachment has passed, Susan. Guerilla war is suicidal
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: It is time to STOP the insanity.
Posted by: braxxian1
» Time to take the car keys away from those drunk with power.
Posted by: greenthumb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 26, 2007 2:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dick Cheney is going to drop dead any day now.
Don't feel sorry for him when the end comes. It'll probably be so fast, the old bastard won't even know what hit him. Hopefully he'll be tucked soundly asleep in his bed. Don't weep for him. Even though he never led a good life, he did have a jolly fun time not leading a good life! He was a Congressman; then a Secretary of Defence; then a CEO of a major corporation, then the vice-President of the United States! That's about as far as a body can go, Bubbah! And he made money! Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money while making the lives of scores of millions of people around the globe fucking miserable! No. Don't weep for Dick Cheney.
Are these calumnous things to say on my part? I don't believe so. When a crazed gunman enters a public eatery, starts shooting at every man, woman and child in sight and suddenly drops dead of a massive stroke, you don't feel any sense of grief for the guy - you feel relieved! Duh! Trust me on this one campers: His imminent demise can only be seen as the best thing for our beloved, once-great nation.
A dead Dick Cheney is a safe Dick Cheney.
Let's hope the end of his life comes before the lives of so many innocent people in Iran.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
» RE: ichard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: andrushka
» RE: Richard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: Astroboy
» Eminem will be happy!
Posted by: andy
» RE: minem will be happy!
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: minem will be happy!
Posted by: andy
» RE:Dirt nap
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: ichard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Richard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: TruthBeTold
» I usually agree with you Tom, but with this guy, I think a wooden stake through the heart is needed.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: ichard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: donl51
» 66 Is An Appropriate Age for His Exit
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Richard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: starvinmarvy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 26, 2007 3:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would it be a federal offence to send a Tripple Whopper with Bacon and Cheese to the vice-president's residence?
Just a thought....
Tom Degan
» RE: Afterthought
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: Afterthought
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Afterthought
Posted by: K_for_Kansas
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Oct 26, 2007 3:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To avoid this, my argument always has been that the U.S. needs Israeli nazis to carry out the aggression, because the corporate democrats have just as many zionist thugs in their ranks, neocon appeasers, and have proven in every war that involves Israeli aggression that they will defend their fascism.
If Israel attacks, the majority of corporate democrats, especially its front runner Presidential candidates, and its corporate leadership, Pelosi, Reid, have already voted several times for threats, sanctions, illegal aggressions by taking out the provision for Congress to force Bush to seek a declaration of war required by Congress.
Of course what most class liberals here do not understand, the class ideology of liberalism is not about cowardice, but about servility to corporate interests, fascist imperial class nationalism, and Empire. Every democrat except a handful, particularly Kucinich and Gravels will condemn these Nazis, aggressors, whether they are American thugs, or Zionist Israeli thugs. Most of the front tier candidates will capitulate, appease as they always have done, as the Corporate media has done, by echoing the lies, and propaganda for Zionism.
These rogue states, Israel and America, particularly their ideological support for these fascist foreign policies must be taken on directly, by demanding every class whore who routinely shows up at AIPAC, The Israeli lobby for corporate money, must declare that such an invasion is completely illegal and anyone who fudges the answer must be put on the list for impeachment. I suspect we will have many war criminals, democrats and republicans already signed up for the Hague international trials, as many of them already are complicit war criminals for their enabling, appeasing support of the illegal Iraqi invasion,and endless occupation, torture, and capitulation to spying. Time for a social revolution. Throw this system out, i.e. class oligarchy for real democracy and social wealth, a fully developed middle class, not subordinated, corrupted by class masters, oligarchies.
» Israel plans to destroy entire world. Wishes to bring second flood to wash away sins of mankind.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
» RE: ODNOX
Posted by: diarmaid
» RE: ODNOX
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Agree with Holland, reply to Odnox:
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Evidence please? Oh, I forgot, It's Israel. All we really need is hostile accusations.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: logi_bare on Oct 26, 2007 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» You will never rally apathetic masses!
Posted by: andy
» RE: logi_bare
Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: logi_bare
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: logi_bare - "All that is required for evil to triumph...
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Apathy runs deep
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Apathy Runs Deep
Posted by: Bright Penny
» RE: Apathy Runs Deep
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Apathy Runs Deep
Posted by: Sissi_phus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ipsi Dixit on Oct 26, 2007 6:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The mullah regime receives support -- at least moral support, if not technology -- from a newly strengthened Russia, which these days reaches for every chance to provoke the United States."
THE USA HAS, EVER SINCE THE END OF THE COLD WAR, BEEN PROVOKING RUSSIA, ADVANCING RIGHT TO THE BORDERS OF THE COUNTRY, SUBVERTING OR ATTEMPTING TO SUBVERT THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE REGION IN MULTI-COLOURED 'REVOLUTIONS' SPONSORED BY THE WEST; SWALLOWED UP THE FORMER WARSAW-PACT COUNTRIES - EVEN THOUGH THEY SAID THEY WOULN'T; PUTTING NATO INTO A RE-UNIFIED GERMANY - EVEN THOUGH GORBOCHEV ALLOWED RE-UNIFICATION ON THE STRICT UNDERSTANDING THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN; DESTROYED YUGOSLAVIA - A RUSSIAN ALLY; AND NOW TRYING TO PUT NUCLEAR MISSILES IN POLAND, THERBY ALTERING THE BALANCE-OF-POWER IN THE REGION.
"Former presidential adviser Sick thinks Iran would strike back with terrorist attacks."
SO, ATTACKING IRAN WOULDN'T BE A TERRORIST ACT THEN? THE REASONING SEEMS TO BE: I KILL TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR CIVILIANS WITH MY BOMBING AND THAT'S A LEGITIMATE ACT OF WAR (THEY WERE 'COLLATERAL DAMAGE'). YOU KILL A FEW DOZENS, OR A FEW HUNDREDS OF MY PEOPLE IN CAR-BOMB EXPLOSION OR WHAT-HAVE-YOU AND THAT'S 'TERRORISM' (AND BY DEFINITION, ILLEGITIMATE), ALLOWING THE U.S. TO DECLARE THEM 'UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANTS' AND INCARCERATE THEM IN 'BLACK SITES' LIKE ABU GRAIB WHERE THEY CAN BE TORTURED WITH IMPUNITY.
I also object to the use of the term 'regime'. It is obviously being used to de-legitimise the government, implying that, unlike Parliamentary or Liberal democracy as supposedly practiced in The West, the Iranian government is a dictatorship and therefore not a 'proper' government. Just to remind you, the Islamic Republic of Iran IS a democracy (yes, that's right). You might not like it's government, and it might not be a perfect or ideal democracy (is the U.S.A? Is Britian?) but it is still democratic within the constraints laid down by the mullahs (in much the same way as we are democracies within the constraints laid down by corporate facism and it's 'free' market).
» RE: OBJECTION!
Posted by: shanaza
» OBJECTION!
Posted by: maddy
» RE: OBJECTION!
Posted by: dingo
» RE: OBJECTION!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: OBJECTION! Obviously none of you objectors
Posted by: UnEasyOne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 26, 2007 6:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» A tired old argument.
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: A tired old argument.
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: A tired old argument. Uh - Hitler DID take over Europe
Posted by: UnEasyOne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Oct 26, 2007 6:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bring it on. But BushCheneyCo: Know that God will not allow you to harm one single hair on any Iranian child's head.
Through China and Russia's nuclear and noncoventional arsenals and handy super-tsunami generating volcano landslides in the Pacific and the Atlantic. Fully ready to stop you at any and all possible cost.
Of course you know this but don't believe they'd dare because your Master Lucifer has promised you the earth. He's lying, as usual.
I'm telling you, THEY WILL DARE. And they will win.
Try it and your country is washed out to sea on both coasts and what little is left will be glowing toast and your pitiful seven-year Empire is taken over by your Rivals. Of course, that's always been the real goal of your Master, hasn't it?
Enjoy hell, boys, enjoy hell. Until he eats you and you are no more. You will be assimilated, last, after seeing everyone else cease to exist.
» RE: I just wish they'd get it over with... the stench reaches to the heights of Heaven
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: I just wish they'd get it over with... the stench reaches to the heights of Heaven
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daw13 on Oct 26, 2007 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regardless of the risks, this must be the Incumbent's assumption. Is it possible, therefore, that Cheney's war gaming includes a whole 'nother dimension? How to manage a nation likely to become more pissed off whether or not Iran is attacked? Just as a result of the failure of U.S. foreign policy in general? The Incumbent has pushed the neo-con football up the field in spite of being unpopular. Is his last assignment to cross the goal line, finally, from democracy to fascism?
» RE: An all out U.S. police state
Posted by: dutch46
Comments are closed-
Posted by: andy on Oct 26, 2007 6:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course it will still be assymetric but the principles involved in assymetric warfare are only effective due to the political constraints on the more powerful country.
With no political constraints they will be just plain annailated.
They better hope to build that bomb quick smart, cos thats the only form of deterrence in total warfare.
» RE: it's more "assymetric" than you think
Posted by: channing
» RE: effects of assymetric warfare do not work in total war.
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: you misunderstand what i meant!
Posted by: andy
» RE: you misunderstand what i meant!
Posted by: jbur816
» apology accepted
Posted by: andy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 26, 2007 7:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iranian President does not have the power to start a war, that power lies in the hands of the Supreme Leader, who is likely not insane. This is an inconvenient fact for George, not that he has ever let reality get in his way before.
» Seriously!
Posted by: hellofriends
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pammers on Oct 26, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: USA acting unilaterally?
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: USA acting unilaterally?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: USA acting unilaterally?.....Because
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Nuclear Hypocrites
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: Nuclear Hypocrites....well
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Reply to Pammers
Posted by: Perfectclue
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 26, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Oct 26, 2007 7:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They will not leave office without starting additional war with Iran. they don't care about the consequences cuz they got their fortunes and safe houses in areas OUT of the US.
$10/gallon gas won't bother them and their buddies personally, and they WANT to collapse the economy in order to rebuild it with their lunatic ideals. They want to go back to surfs and aristocrats.
Bush believes he has been chosen by God to start Armageddon. Cheney just likes to make money and see people suffer and die.
They are both mentally ill.
Nothing can stop it now. IF impeachment proceedings had been started by the spineless dems the instant they took over congress, there MIGHT have been a snowballs chance in hell. But not anymore. they're gonna do it.
Several months back, congress quietly passed a resolution saying that
» RE: war and collapse are inevitable
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: war and collapse are inevitable
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: war and collapse are inevitable
Posted by: Sissi_phus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 26, 2007 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isreal would be no different. We would rush to their aide because of long standing treaties.
This is just the kind of idiocy we've come to expect from this Government. This is the bullshit we must stand against. That's why we cannot elect anyone who's running for office now. Because they are part of this scheme. This warmongering governance must be stopped. It's time to disband the government in it's current form. It's a failed system that feeds itself on genocide,theft,lies and disinformation. It is the rotting fish we had 25 years ago. 35 years ago or even 65 years ago.
When good people stand by and 'let' corrupt officals run the country into the ground,then we become the very thing we hate. Totalitarian Rulership. We had the chance to not be this way after WW2. We chose the other direction. Anti- Constitution,anti- Bill of Rights, anti-human.
It's time to form a blockade around DC, cut off their phone and internet, cut off the utilities and close their doors.
We are a great nation with a bullshit governance. We can reclaim our greaterness by shutting down this governance and sending the Executive Branch with the NSC and the DHS,CIA NSA heads all over to the Hague for High Crimes Against Humanity. Perhaps the sentence will be the same as Saddams. Perhaps we might just learn that Peace and Co-operation will always be better than war,threats of war and hostile actions. I log in on the side of Peace and Co-operation. How about you?
Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Oct 26, 2007 8:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over the past five years, millions have been brutally killed in Central Africa with little word about this real story from the Alternet who, in the midst of an actual genocide, prefers headlines akin to, Israeli Soldier steps on Palestinian's foot, refuses to say "excuse me", international public outraged!! This is done in order to crassly stir up the usual conspiricy mongering opprobrium amongst Alternet's mostly uneducated, simple minded readers. I'm utterly sick of this crap. The Alternet has a decent staff and many good writers at their disposal. They don't to reach toward the bottom of the barrel for stories. They don't even publish good stuff on the occupation or the Israel/Palestine conflict like the stories on increasing popularity of Marwan Burgouthi and the Palestine National Initiative or the future of Fatah, or even on Abbas's handling of local Palestinian politics or daily life in the occupied territories. Instead, were treated to a left wing version of vapid Tabloid style sensationalism. This reflects on the low intellectual level of much of Alternet's readership. This is really a shame. Maybe better stories will bring better readers. I notice that the well thought out stories on highly complex topics, like international trade and the effect of economic globalization of labor conditions in the US and elsewhere usually get very little reader response. Interesting.
Enough is enough!! Get serious already!!
A very disgusted, YELLOW.
» I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Josh, sorry about the smears. I never intended the discussion to go in THAT direction.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: JP-1
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble.
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Alternet crassly exploits anti-Jewish hysteria for ratings and shock value. Enough is enough!!
Posted by: ibsteve2u
» The roots of 911: American Support of Israel
Posted by: sofla100
» 9/11 had NOTHING to do with US support for Israel. This is an anti-semitic claim having no evidence.
Posted by: yellow
» Reply to yellow by perfect clue: Anti Jewish? or Anti Zionist, fascist, class nationalism!
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Perfect Clue, It really looks as though you could use one!!
Posted by: yellow
» Josh you have a better answer available
Posted by: daw13
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hellofriends on Oct 26, 2007 9:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1.) Iran is not a "mullah regime." This is hateful and inaccurate speech. If the purpose of your article is to help prevent a war with Iran, learn something about Iran and do not proliferate derogatory libel. although mullah is actually a term of respect, in the islamophobic axis of evil context we try not to live in, it's been imbued with an unabashedly negative resonance. mullah's do funerals and lead prayers and teach sometimes. they are like ministers. the people leading the country---the supreme leader, the council of guardians, the assembly of experts---are not "mullahs."
2.) we must talk about saudi arabia. if the call to war is now founded upon the supposed involvement of iranians in iraq, we must point out that the saudi involvement in iraq is much more prevalent and dangerous. the bush admin. is counting on americans not to know this, and not to know that saudi arabia is the primary financial and idealogical supporter of islamic terrorism worldwide---putting forth 90% of the funding for islamic education and spreading violent, fundamentalist Wahabi doctrines. they fund hamas, they crashed planes into the twin towers, they commit terrible human rights abuses, and We fund them. now i know that we're not going to invade saudi arabia ($,) but bringing up this issue reveals tremendous duplicity on the iran hawks.
3.) Ahmadenijad is an eccentric and symbolic non-leader of Iran. he is not the commander in chief. he can't do anything regarding starting or not starting wars. he's not popular in iran and will lose the next election in 2009, unless he is impeached beforehand (and there have been calls for this within Iran,) or we bomb iran and he regains support. he's been publicly censured by the Supreme Leader, who himself has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons and is continuously trying to explain in calmer, saner terms the inflammatory rhetoric of Ahmadenijad. officials in Iran have stated publicly that it is outrageous and ignorant to suggest that the Holocaust never happened, and people who know Persian have tried to point out that Ahmadenijad did not call for israel to be wiped off the map, but rather said something like: "the policies of the regime that currently occupies jerusalem will lead to its being erased from the pages of history." this is not a call to nuclear war against israel. bush says stupid crap like this everyday.
» Helpful, indeed
Posted by: maddy
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: JP-1
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: abraxas
» What?????
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I wish you were working for the mainstream media
Posted by: dikjosef
» Excellent
Posted by: worldwide65
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Posted by: babs on Oct 26, 2007 9:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watching and keeping their collective fingers crossed that big, bad America will not launch yet another illegal attack?
No. They are making their own plans to defend themselves. Might want to remind those DC dipshits that Iran has allies who are truly sick of the meddling and deaths caused by Bushco and will not let him repeat the Iraq adventure.
Who are they? China, Russia and most of the gulf states, not to mention India. All armed to the teeth, mobilized and waiting for the depleted U.S. military to try it.
None of these states want war but they will definitely go to the mat to punish the world-challenging hawks that are Bush and Cheney. There is much pent up rage in the world now and if Iran is hit, her allies will react and tiny Israel would be wise to stay out of it unless they favor glass craters rather than their country.
Indeed, if Israel's leaders were smart (they're not), they would distance themselves from Bushco as fast as possible. War on Iran would be a death sentence for them.
Another misadventure in the middle east will be the last nail in America's coffin. Will you let them do it?
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Posted by: ehsan on Oct 26, 2007 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O dear american friends mark words:your country invaded or went to war almost 700 times during the last one hundred years while the Iranians did not aggress against any country during the last almost 400 years of its history.they are a civilised people,not the up-starts of yester years.Have a heart telling the world that your soldiers are being killed by iranian arms in iraq,hence SANCTIONS.Bright boys. first of all tell me what are the american soldiers doing in Iraq.the US boys invaded iraq and the iraqis are fully justified in resisting this brutally immoral act of the americans.those in iraq who are resisting this dastardly action of the aggressor can justifiably seek help form neighbours and friends at a distance.do not forget when the americans colonies revolted against the British King in 1776,the French came to their help. that act France is a golden chapter in the country's history.Iran is perhaps doing not enough for its stupid neighbour who at the instance and support of the US waged a war aganist her for 8 years.to cut a long story short,be warned O ye US citizens going to war against Iran is against your national interests.believe me,do not be mislead by Cheney and the sick maniacal senator(i forget his name) who ran elections as vice prsidential candidate with GORE against the Republicans.Do not do it what they say;that is poison.you are already in grave economic troubles. they would land you into further troubles.see the writings on the wall.do not loose all the friends that you may still have.trust me.
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Posted by: Grousefeather on Oct 26, 2007 10:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: maxloen on Oct 26, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Just a small point of fact
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just a small point of fact
Posted by: maxloen
» RE: Just a small point of fact
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Re: Yellow
Posted by: jbur816
» What fluff pieces? The tanking US economy about which you so called "progressives" seem so ignorant?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: COmac on Oct 26, 2007 11:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over 30% of the terrorists on the 9/11 flights were Saudi. None were from Iraq.
Prior to 9/11 a strong faction of Saudi royals were trying to convert all the U.S. dollar debt they hold (many billions) into euros and thereby crushing the US financial market.
How come no news source strings together these things to show where this insanity is truly coming from and why?? I don't want the US to be destroyed defending Israel and some fat cats over some land or oil that they covet. I'll bet a majority of Americans will agree.
Fight for truth and against those that use position or power to hide from the truth.
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Posted by: Glennk1949 on Oct 26, 2007 11:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 26, 2007 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, what are the actual facts about nuclear weapons in the Middle East?
First, Israel has a large arsenal that they refuse to declare, and for some reason the U.S. supports Israel in that. Why? Speculation: the U.S. played a major role in arming Israel with nuclear weapons but doesn't want that known.
Second, Pakistan has a large arsenal, as does India (who refuses to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, as does Pakistan and Israel). Pakistan has close ties with Saudi Arabia. Could Saudi Arabia get their hands on nukes, and would they if they could? See Saudia Arabia working on secret nuclear program with Pakistan help - report, Forbes, 03.28.2006,.
Third, Russia is working closely with Iran over nuclear power, and has stated there is no evidence that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon. Putin Denounces `Madman' With Knife Approach to Iran Oct. 25 (Bloomberg)
So, what's really up here? What is Cheney's twisted mind thinking? One possibility is that this is a little Cold-War era brinkmanship game - using the threat of assault to gain some economic objective. Sometimes, far more information can be gleaned from financial business news than from any other source - see Russia: Bigger Than Big Oil, By David Lee Smith May 25, 2007
"Perhaps most astoundingly, late last year Russia quietly passed Saudi Arabia to become the world's biggest oil producer. After Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently agreed, face to face, to tone down their increasingly inflammatory rhetoric and concentrate instead on business, Russia's growing oil output and the U.S.'s corresponding decline seem increasingly meaningful, if not ominous."
So, my unsupported speculation here is that Cheney wants to kick Russia out of Iran, and that all his talk of launching an assault is just Cold War era brinkmanship by an aging dinosaur.
Or he really could be a stark, raving lunatic who is only one step away from starting World War III. Hard to say.
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Posted by: Earthian on Oct 26, 2007 12:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider what this means. If some nation did all of this to us, via UN Charter Article 51, we would have the legal right to inform the UNSC that we are invoking the Article 51 right of self-defense, and while we strike those preparing to strike us, we ask the SC to restore peace and prevent war. This is the legal right of preemption.
But the US government is the aggressor.
Iran has never invaded or occupied another nation, not in modern times. Iran has an inalienable right to their commercial nuclear enrichment program via Article 4 of the NPT. In fact the US has the obligation to help them develop it, while we have the obligation to engage in good faith efforts to negotiate for complete nuclear disarmament (via Article 6).
What does all this mean for progressives regarding a likely crime against peace by the US against Iran?
Simply this: Iran increasingly has a legal right to strike US forces provided they invoke Article 51 with the UNSC. They could destroy the so-called Green Zone. They could sink US carriers. They have a real military. The US could lose more soldiers in a day than so far in Iraq during the invasion and occupation.
So if and when Iran strikes out to defend itself from US government aggression, it is important for progressives to have a clear understanding of the legal and constitutional situation. The way to deal with such an outbreak of hostilities is not to rally behind US government leaders, but to hold them accountable for their crimes and seek peace with the Iranians.
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» RE: USA and the Nutty Left
Posted by: tap17x
» RE: USA and the Nutty Left: and the Nut, tap17x
Posted by: Perfectclue
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 26, 2007 2:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I read comments by Hitler and Germany haters all day long and I am just amazed at the level of complete ignorance on the part of the so many in this country and abroad. The left, social elite, god haters in both Germany and America are for the most part nothing more than ignorant snobs and they not Hitler are the greatest threat to world peace. Might I remind Europe that before Germany became a world power / policeman, it was the Oh-so-smart British, French and Russians that created war after war resulting in the slaughter of millions for thousands of years.
It was the "o-so-smart" British and French that lead the world into World War I then had the balls to call on the ignorant god believing Americans to help bail them out.
If one studies the bible (Which those on both the left are to smart to believe) it again will be the British, Russia and France NOT Germany or Hitler that start World War 2 resulting in the death of 2/3 of all life on the planet.
The problem is most on the left are to dam ignorant to believe in any type of god much less waste their time reading the bible. They would rather lecture us from their positions of snobbery and superior intellect. Let me just say one thing when you become to dam smart to believe in god you have become to dam smart. Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise they became fools.
I read and study the bible and so yes I guess I am just an ignorant god fearing flag waving German. But hear me now, and hear me good. From what I can tell in bible prophecy we are right on track for the Jewish Communist Alliance to be the next global world leader. Soon you will get your wish and the Germany will be out of the picture. When that happens and you fools are left to your own Superior Intellect god help you and all life on this planet.
You Will then cry out to the GOD you don't currently believe in and he will not hear you.
My last comment is this if you had half a brain you on the left and in Europe would get behind Germany and Hitler and support him rather than snob him and the good he is trying to do. But if history is any lesson I don't expect any one on the left, Europe or Russia to do so. You all would rather go down the path spelled out in the bible and watch the Jews and Communists become a global power. Watch then what your ignorance has brought you."
Try it with Stalin, Russia, Fascists, and in place of the bible put the words of Lenin and Karl Marx, and you get the same effect. Propaganda is always the same - no facts and a lot of blather.
» Hey! You removed the original!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Oct 26, 2007 2:29 PM
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Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 26, 2007 4:48 PM
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There is less than zero evidence for this. Does anyone really think we would not know about this? Think for a moment.
For more on this, read Philip Giraldi here
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 26, 2007 4:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Iran: Daring Not to Accept USA/Israel Hegemony in the Middle East
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Chloe2005 on Oct 26, 2007 6:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JRedfern on Oct 27, 2007 9:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: DrColes on Oct 27, 2007 1:37 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Islamic Fascism declared war against the U.S. and all non-Islamic nations. The truth is the truth. Why would any free human want to suppress this? http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl
» Your a neocon shill. Go away.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: mwildfire on Oct 27, 2007 1:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weslen1 on Oct 27, 2007 2:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Gerald on Oct 27, 2007 2:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our navy know doubt knows this but our pilot-in-chief can't think that big.
» RE: gerald.sutliff@gmail.com
Posted by: dutch46
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Posted by: lukitas on Oct 27, 2007 8:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to be focusing on saving ourselves from global warming and petrol deprivation. We don't need global warfare.
And other people's oil will run out too. Whatever we do, we need to learn how to make do without petrol, because when all is said and done, it's gone. Whether it takes five years, fifty or a hundred for the wells to run dry is no matter. I am willing to take a very large bet that oil will become very expensive in a very short time - years rather than decades - to such an extent that car use will become the privilege of the very rich.
Millions of people will lack heat, and food, and have wet feet, or graves, the weather will be mostly bad - aridity contrasted with exceptional rainfall and high storms; we have prepared a peach of a future for ourselves. Do we really want the US to go to war with another smallish republic? Granted, it's a muslim republic, but what is so wrong about that? God talks to W., doesn't he? And anyhow, the war is already lost. They'll never get at the oil the way they wanted, Iraq is a worse mess than Vietnam. The day the U.S. attacks Iran, they are threatening planetary suicide. 'Give us anything we want or we nuke you'. Even Mao and Stalin or Hitler weren't as scary as that.
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Posted by: SteveMD2 on Oct 27, 2007 9:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Bush is the worst kind - he is not only imbued with a desire for unlimited power, but it is religious based. If you look at his face when he talks, you see this weird smile. The same kind of weird smile as that nut case minister Fred Phelps who celebrates at the funerals of our dead soldiers. So you have a nazi - sociopathic type personality mixed with a religious mentality that is as totally blind to decency and reality as those who gave us 9/11. He is also the equivalent of the combination of the evil roman emperors and totally corrupt Popes who gave the world the 1000+ years of the dark ages, when the world went nowhere economically, and 'christian' armies committed total sin against God, ravaging the middle east, killing 10's of millions of Muslims in order to steal the treasures of the advanced for its time Muslim civilization. No wonder they find it so easy to hate us, for they haven't forgotten their holocaust and more then the Jews will forget what happened to them even thousands of years in the future.
What Bush has done in Iraq, and may do with Iran, is to fall totally into the trap of Osama Bin Laden. By attacking a Muslim nation that had nothing to do with 9/11, Bush and co. have validated to Muslims worldwide that we are the enemy, and reminded their society that for 600 years, Christian armies ravaged the middle east, killing tens of millions "in the name of God", but really just to steal the treasures of their advanced for its time civilization. And the Iraq war is about stealing Iraqs oil, giving Iraq 10c on the dollar for their oil, while the rest goes to the profit pockets of our big oil buddies of the Bush family and Cheney's Halliburton.
And what has Bush and co. done to help the US end our fuel dependence on the middle east. Raise the US gas mileage standards significantly? NO. Put a $5/bulb tax on the old incandescents, and use it to subsidize the sale of compact fluorescents that save - really - 2/3 of the power of the old bulbs. NO. Put a gargantuan annual tax on the worst gas hogs, and use some of that money to subsidize home and business energy efficiency, e.g new high efficiency heaters / coolers, and building insulation. NO. Why, because he would attack the profits of his oil buddies who are behind the Iraq attack as much as any other reason. Exxons 2006 profits of $40 billion are sacred to the power of those who support Bush's neo-con or is it nazi agenda. The key reason for the Iraq war was oil profits, to steal the Iraqi's oil for the profits of the big oil companies who are pals and business partners of Cheney and the Bush family.
Compare that with Iraq. Bush and his gang will surely go to hell, most likely the same hell as Hitler, Stalin, and others of their ilk . Maybe his cellmate in hell will be Saddam. They certainly could find common ground.
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Posted by: Dominic Jermano on Oct 27, 2007 11:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saudi Arabia and Iran are 2 of the most vulnerable countries in the world with no defense from super powers who may turn on them. They strategically control most of the Worlds Natural Oil resources. Look at how this looks now. America has no Oil resources; attacks the countries that do. Now who is the Bully here? Sure they devise plans to stir instability by making out the guys who have the Oil are bad guys, but how do they get away with being so arrogant?
Iran's President may have said Israel should be wiped off the map, but in reality it is Israel who always has live nuclear weapons pointing at Iran. Who really wants who wiped off the map? Cetainly Israel does.
With Saudi Arabia and Iran unarmed they are fish in a barrel to any political heists from any super powers. If you were an Iranian or Saudi would you feel secure that one of the other super powers will stick up for you if another decides to invade? I know I would feel helpless. I would want the bomb to use as a deterent.
For the sake of argument, the reason we have terror is because rich resource oil countries have no access to the bomb. Israel has no Oil, but they have the bomb, just like the USA. They invaded Iraq who did not have the bomb. I think terror will remain, until Iran and Saudi Arabia have the bomb. If America bombs Iran, they will still keep trying to develop nuclear weapons, if not out right buying one from Russia, or Pakistan. They will hide it, and move it, and keep the US and other non-Oil super power countries on their good behavior so Oil deals are fair.
I think if we want peace, we should allow Iran and Saudi Arabia to have the Bomb. They will never use it. If they do, it is the end to their lives. Even Allah is not totally suicidal. Because his soldiers might be, does not mean he intends their whole society to perish from the planet, because of irresponsibility from a leader. They are in my opinion not out to destroy their peoples. Even Saddam was not that mad. Our invasion proved his unwillingness to unleash chemical or WMD even at war.
Our greatest threat is our own countries leadership Bush and Cheney and the money backers to their syndicate. I feel more threatened that they will destroy Americans with the bomb, before I feel threatened that Iran or Saudi Arabia would attack us if they had the bomb. Iran and Saudi Arabia are not PRE-EMPTIVE lunatics. I know Bush did 911, what's stopping them from annhiliating Chicago? The fact that they know they are wrong, can't bring themselves to admit it, can't face the embarrassment, and only biding time for their exit or strategy to wage another war. And they don't want radiation drifting to the Washington DC.
The only way is to impeach and cut off the power. I declare Bush and Cheney are no longer our leaders, so do not obey their orders or threats.
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Oct 28, 2007 7:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote for Dr. Ron Paul, the only anti-war, pro-freedom candidate.
» Israel doesn't benefit my child unless you consider soldiers dying in the OPT everyday a benefit.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Dr. Ron Paul the only candidate that will stop the War
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» Good point! I support Obama but would go for Ron Paul as well, the only Republican with a conscience
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: humanity101 on Oct 28, 2007 10:10 PM
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Posted by: peter_maryb on Oct 29, 2007 1:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can you Americans be so naive? Democracy has nothing to do with it.
As I write (10/29/07), the king of a corrupt regime as tough as Soviet East Germany ever was is being entertained with a State visit to Buckingham Palace and Whitehall. King Abdulla of Saudi Arabia is getting the full treatment.
When we speak of Africa, we often mention in the same breath "Corruption". This absolute monarch and his family preside over public decapitations and floggings of women caught in the act of adultery [Documented in "Death of a Princess", a film which the Saudis tried to ban in Britain - yes in a free speech democracy.], amputations of limbs of criminals, total banning of women's rights, mass arrests of anyone who opposes the regime, secret prisons, torture of innocent and guilty alike, and the acceptance of huge bribes - all widely and independently documented - as part of their arms purchases from the United Kingdom. Indeed, the Blair government ordered the British Serious Fraud Office to cease it's investigation of BAE bribes totalling millions of dollars to a senior member of the Saudi Royal family on the grounds that it would "prejudice national security".
One other thing. The Saudis have oil, lots of it. And massive US and CIA presence across all the Saudi states. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. In our "informed democracies".
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Posted by: compu on Oct 26, 2007 12:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=869
-- from a newly strengthened Russia, which these days reaches for every chance to provoke the United States. President Vladimir Putin's own (self-described) "grandiose plan" to restore Russia's armed forces inclu
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» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger
Posted by: hot karlrove
» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: I hate to agreed with a right winger - When Bush "looked into Putin's eyes"
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: Susan Kipping on Oct 26, 2007 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our Congress and Senate are in on this. It is difficult for people to believe. But stop and think about what has been happening. Look at the craziness all around us and we can't seem to do a thing about it. Our economy, these wars, our rights, our constitution, our media; all out of control. There is no war on drugs. Drugs, guns and oil are big business. There is not war on poverty. There is no war on Terrorism. There is only a war on us.
We need to impeach Bush and Cheney now. This will start an investigation into other problems were are having. Possibly the answers around 9/11 will become available. People need to be held accountable. Enough excuses from our officials. We need action now. The '08 election is not going to solve a thing. It is too far away and will have let this administration off the hook without answering for their actions (crimes).
Impeach.
» RE: It is time to STOP the insanity.
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: It is time to STOP the insanity. Hillary is also queen of...
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: The time for impeachment has passed, Susan.
Posted by: scott balogh
» Jefferson and the Declaration
Posted by: daytripper
» Also, Jefferson:
Posted by: justAnEgg
» Jefferson would know, "we're not in Kansas anymore"
Posted by: amacd
» RE: The time for impeachment has passed, Susan.
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: The time for impeachment has passed, Susan. Guerilla war is suicidal
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: It is time to STOP the insanity.
Posted by: braxxian1
» Time to take the car keys away from those drunk with power.
Posted by: greenthumb
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 26, 2007 2:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dick Cheney is going to drop dead any day now.
Don't feel sorry for him when the end comes. It'll probably be so fast, the old bastard won't even know what hit him. Hopefully he'll be tucked soundly asleep in his bed. Don't weep for him. Even though he never led a good life, he did have a jolly fun time not leading a good life! He was a Congressman; then a Secretary of Defence; then a CEO of a major corporation, then the vice-President of the United States! That's about as far as a body can go, Bubbah! And he made money! Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money while making the lives of scores of millions of people around the globe fucking miserable! No. Don't weep for Dick Cheney.
Are these calumnous things to say on my part? I don't believe so. When a crazed gunman enters a public eatery, starts shooting at every man, woman and child in sight and suddenly drops dead of a massive stroke, you don't feel any sense of grief for the guy - you feel relieved! Duh! Trust me on this one campers: His imminent demise can only be seen as the best thing for our beloved, once-great nation.
A dead Dick Cheney is a safe Dick Cheney.
Let's hope the end of his life comes before the lives of so many innocent people in Iran.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
» RE: ichard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: andrushka
» RE: Richard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: Astroboy
» Eminem will be happy!
Posted by: andy
» RE: minem will be happy!
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: minem will be happy!
Posted by: andy
» RE:Dirt nap
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: ichard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Richard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: TruthBeTold
» I usually agree with you Tom, but with this guy, I think a wooden stake through the heart is needed.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: ichard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: donl51
» 66 Is An Appropriate Age for His Exit
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Richard B. Cheney 1941-2007
Posted by: starvinmarvy
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 26, 2007 3:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would it be a federal offence to send a Tripple Whopper with Bacon and Cheese to the vice-president's residence?
Just a thought....
Tom Degan
» RE: Afterthought
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: Afterthought
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Afterthought
Posted by: K_for_Kansas
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Posted by: Perfectclue on Oct 26, 2007 3:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To avoid this, my argument always has been that the U.S. needs Israeli nazis to carry out the aggression, because the corporate democrats have just as many zionist thugs in their ranks, neocon appeasers, and have proven in every war that involves Israeli aggression that they will defend their fascism.
If Israel attacks, the majority of corporate democrats, especially its front runner Presidential candidates, and its corporate leadership, Pelosi, Reid, have already voted several times for threats, sanctions, illegal aggressions by taking out the provision for Congress to force Bush to seek a declaration of war required by Congress.
Of course what most class liberals here do not understand, the class ideology of liberalism is not about cowardice, but about servility to corporate interests, fascist imperial class nationalism, and Empire. Every democrat except a handful, particularly Kucinich and Gravels will condemn these Nazis, aggressors, whether they are American thugs, or Zionist Israeli thugs. Most of the front tier candidates will capitulate, appease as they always have done, as the Corporate media has done, by echoing the lies, and propaganda for Zionism.
These rogue states, Israel and America, particularly their ideological support for these fascist foreign policies must be taken on directly, by demanding every class whore who routinely shows up at AIPAC, The Israeli lobby for corporate money, must declare that such an invasion is completely illegal and anyone who fudges the answer must be put on the list for impeachment. I suspect we will have many war criminals, democrats and republicans already signed up for the Hague international trials, as many of them already are complicit war criminals for their enabling, appeasing support of the illegal Iraqi invasion,and endless occupation, torture, and capitulation to spying. Time for a social revolution. Throw this system out, i.e. class oligarchy for real democracy and social wealth, a fully developed middle class, not subordinated, corrupted by class masters, oligarchies.
» Israel plans to destroy entire world. Wishes to bring second flood to wash away sins of mankind.
Posted by: yellow
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» RE: ODNOX
Posted by: diarmaid
» RE: ODNOX
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Agree with Holland, reply to Odnox:
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Evidence please? Oh, I forgot, It's Israel. All we really need is hostile accusations.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: logi_bare on Oct 26, 2007 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» You will never rally apathetic masses!
Posted by: andy
» RE: logi_bare
Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: logi_bare
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: logi_bare - "All that is required for evil to triumph...
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Apathy runs deep
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Apathy Runs Deep
Posted by: Bright Penny
» RE: Apathy Runs Deep
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Apathy Runs Deep
Posted by: Sissi_phus
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Posted by: Ipsi Dixit on Oct 26, 2007 6:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The mullah regime receives support -- at least moral support, if not technology -- from a newly strengthened Russia, which these days reaches for every chance to provoke the United States."
THE USA HAS, EVER SINCE THE END OF THE COLD WAR, BEEN PROVOKING RUSSIA, ADVANCING RIGHT TO THE BORDERS OF THE COUNTRY, SUBVERTING OR ATTEMPTING TO SUBVERT THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE REGION IN MULTI-COLOURED 'REVOLUTIONS' SPONSORED BY THE WEST; SWALLOWED UP THE FORMER WARSAW-PACT COUNTRIES - EVEN THOUGH THEY SAID THEY WOULN'T; PUTTING NATO INTO A RE-UNIFIED GERMANY - EVEN THOUGH GORBOCHEV ALLOWED RE-UNIFICATION ON THE STRICT UNDERSTANDING THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN; DESTROYED YUGOSLAVIA - A RUSSIAN ALLY; AND NOW TRYING TO PUT NUCLEAR MISSILES IN POLAND, THERBY ALTERING THE BALANCE-OF-POWER IN THE REGION.
"Former presidential adviser Sick thinks Iran would strike back with terrorist attacks."
SO, ATTACKING IRAN WOULDN'T BE A TERRORIST ACT THEN? THE REASONING SEEMS TO BE: I KILL TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR CIVILIANS WITH MY BOMBING AND THAT'S A LEGITIMATE ACT OF WAR (THEY WERE 'COLLATERAL DAMAGE'). YOU KILL A FEW DOZENS, OR A FEW HUNDREDS OF MY PEOPLE IN CAR-BOMB EXPLOSION OR WHAT-HAVE-YOU AND THAT'S 'TERRORISM' (AND BY DEFINITION, ILLEGITIMATE), ALLOWING THE U.S. TO DECLARE THEM 'UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANTS' AND INCARCERATE THEM IN 'BLACK SITES' LIKE ABU GRAIB WHERE THEY CAN BE TORTURED WITH IMPUNITY.
I also object to the use of the term 'regime'. It is obviously being used to de-legitimise the government, implying that, unlike Parliamentary or Liberal democracy as supposedly practiced in The West, the Iranian government is a dictatorship and therefore not a 'proper' government. Just to remind you, the Islamic Republic of Iran IS a democracy (yes, that's right). You might not like it's government, and it might not be a perfect or ideal democracy (is the U.S.A? Is Britian?) but it is still democratic within the constraints laid down by the mullahs (in much the same way as we are democracies within the constraints laid down by corporate facism and it's 'free' market).
» RE: OBJECTION!
Posted by: shanaza
» OBJECTION!
Posted by: maddy
» RE: OBJECTION!
Posted by: dingo
» RE: OBJECTION!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: OBJECTION! Obviously none of you objectors
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 26, 2007 6:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» A tired old argument.
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: A tired old argument.
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: A tired old argument. Uh - Hitler DID take over Europe
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: xbj on Oct 26, 2007 6:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bring it on. But BushCheneyCo: Know that God will not allow you to harm one single hair on any Iranian child's head.
Through China and Russia's nuclear and noncoventional arsenals and handy super-tsunami generating volcano landslides in the Pacific and the Atlantic. Fully ready to stop you at any and all possible cost.
Of course you know this but don't believe they'd dare because your Master Lucifer has promised you the earth. He's lying, as usual.
I'm telling you, THEY WILL DARE. And they will win.
Try it and your country is washed out to sea on both coasts and what little is left will be glowing toast and your pitiful seven-year Empire is taken over by your Rivals. Of course, that's always been the real goal of your Master, hasn't it?
Enjoy hell, boys, enjoy hell. Until he eats you and you are no more. You will be assimilated, last, after seeing everyone else cease to exist.
» RE: I just wish they'd get it over with... the stench reaches to the heights of Heaven
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: I just wish they'd get it over with... the stench reaches to the heights of Heaven
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: daw13 on Oct 26, 2007 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regardless of the risks, this must be the Incumbent's assumption. Is it possible, therefore, that Cheney's war gaming includes a whole 'nother dimension? How to manage a nation likely to become more pissed off whether or not Iran is attacked? Just as a result of the failure of U.S. foreign policy in general? The Incumbent has pushed the neo-con football up the field in spite of being unpopular. Is his last assignment to cross the goal line, finally, from democracy to fascism?
» RE: An all out U.S. police state
Posted by: dutch46
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Posted by: andy on Oct 26, 2007 6:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course it will still be assymetric but the principles involved in assymetric warfare are only effective due to the political constraints on the more powerful country.
With no political constraints they will be just plain annailated.
They better hope to build that bomb quick smart, cos thats the only form of deterrence in total warfare.
» RE: it's more "assymetric" than you think
Posted by: channing
» RE: effects of assymetric warfare do not work in total war.
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: you misunderstand what i meant!
Posted by: andy
» RE: you misunderstand what i meant!
Posted by: jbur816
» apology accepted
Posted by: andy
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 26, 2007 7:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iranian President does not have the power to start a war, that power lies in the hands of the Supreme Leader, who is likely not insane. This is an inconvenient fact for George, not that he has ever let reality get in his way before.
» Seriously!
Posted by: hellofriends
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Posted by: pammers on Oct 26, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: USA acting unilaterally?
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: USA acting unilaterally?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: USA acting unilaterally?.....Because
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Nuclear Hypocrites
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: Nuclear Hypocrites....well
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Reply to Pammers
Posted by: Perfectclue
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 26, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Oct 26, 2007 7:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They will not leave office without starting additional war with Iran. they don't care about the consequences cuz they got their fortunes and safe houses in areas OUT of the US.
$10/gallon gas won't bother them and their buddies personally, and they WANT to collapse the economy in order to rebuild it with their lunatic ideals. They want to go back to surfs and aristocrats.
Bush believes he has been chosen by God to start Armageddon. Cheney just likes to make money and see people suffer and die.
They are both mentally ill.
Nothing can stop it now. IF impeachment proceedings had been started by the spineless dems the instant they took over congress, there MIGHT have been a snowballs chance in hell. But not anymore. they're gonna do it.
Several months back, congress quietly passed a resolution saying that
» RE: war and collapse are inevitable
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: war and collapse are inevitable
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: war and collapse are inevitable
Posted by: Sissi_phus
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 26, 2007 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isreal would be no different. We would rush to their aide because of long standing treaties.
This is just the kind of idiocy we've come to expect from this Government. This is the bullshit we must stand against. That's why we cannot elect anyone who's running for office now. Because they are part of this scheme. This warmongering governance must be stopped. It's time to disband the government in it's current form. It's a failed system that feeds itself on genocide,theft,lies and disinformation. It is the rotting fish we had 25 years ago. 35 years ago or even 65 years ago.
When good people stand by and 'let' corrupt officals run the country into the ground,then we become the very thing we hate. Totalitarian Rulership. We had the chance to not be this way after WW2. We chose the other direction. Anti- Constitution,anti- Bill of Rights, anti-human.
It's time to form a blockade around DC, cut off their phone and internet, cut off the utilities and close their doors.
We are a great nation with a bullshit governance. We can reclaim our greaterness by shutting down this governance and sending the Executive Branch with the NSC and the DHS,CIA NSA heads all over to the Hague for High Crimes Against Humanity. Perhaps the sentence will be the same as Saddams. Perhaps we might just learn that Peace and Co-operation will always be better than war,threats of war and hostile actions. I log in on the side of Peace and Co-operation. How about you?
Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: yellow on Oct 26, 2007 8:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over the past five years, millions have been brutally killed in Central Africa with little word about this real story from the Alternet who, in the midst of an actual genocide, prefers headlines akin to, Israeli Soldier steps on Palestinian's foot, refuses to say "excuse me", international public outraged!! This is done in order to crassly stir up the usual conspiricy mongering opprobrium amongst Alternet's mostly uneducated, simple minded readers. I'm utterly sick of this crap. The Alternet has a decent staff and many good writers at their disposal. They don't to reach toward the bottom of the barrel for stories. They don't even publish good stuff on the occupation or the Israel/Palestine conflict like the stories on increasing popularity of Marwan Burgouthi and the Palestine National Initiative or the future of Fatah, or even on Abbas's handling of local Palestinian politics or daily life in the occupied territories. Instead, were treated to a left wing version of vapid Tabloid style sensationalism. This reflects on the low intellectual level of much of Alternet's readership. This is really a shame. Maybe better stories will bring better readers. I notice that the well thought out stories on highly complex topics, like international trade and the effect of economic globalization of labor conditions in the US and elsewhere usually get very little reader response. Interesting.
Enough is enough!! Get serious already!!
A very disgusted, YELLOW.
» I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Josh, sorry about the smears. I never intended the discussion to go in THAT direction.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: JP-1
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I agree. We also need more articles on Macro-economic issues like the deficit and housing bubble.
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Alternet crassly exploits anti-Jewish hysteria for ratings and shock value. Enough is enough!!
Posted by: ibsteve2u
» The roots of 911: American Support of Israel
Posted by: sofla100
» 9/11 had NOTHING to do with US support for Israel. This is an anti-semitic claim having no evidence.
Posted by: yellow
» Reply to yellow by perfect clue: Anti Jewish? or Anti Zionist, fascist, class nationalism!
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Perfect Clue, It really looks as though you could use one!!
Posted by: yellow
» Josh you have a better answer available
Posted by: daw13
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Posted by: hellofriends on Oct 26, 2007 9:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1.) Iran is not a "mullah regime." This is hateful and inaccurate speech. If the purpose of your article is to help prevent a war with Iran, learn something about Iran and do not proliferate derogatory libel. although mullah is actually a term of respect, in the islamophobic axis of evil context we try not to live in, it's been imbued with an unabashedly negative resonance. mullah's do funerals and lead prayers and teach sometimes. they are like ministers. the people leading the country---the supreme leader, the council of guardians, the assembly of experts---are not "mullahs."
2.) we must talk about saudi arabia. if the call to war is now founded upon the supposed involvement of iranians in iraq, we must point out that the saudi involvement in iraq is much more prevalent and dangerous. the bush admin. is counting on americans not to know this, and not to know that saudi arabia is the primary financial and idealogical supporter of islamic terrorism worldwide---putting forth 90% of the funding for islamic education and spreading violent, fundamentalist Wahabi doctrines. they fund hamas, they crashed planes into the twin towers, they commit terrible human rights abuses, and We fund them. now i know that we're not going to invade saudi arabia ($,) but bringing up this issue reveals tremendous duplicity on the iran hawks.
3.) Ahmadenijad is an eccentric and symbolic non-leader of Iran. he is not the commander in chief. he can't do anything regarding starting or not starting wars. he's not popular in iran and will lose the next election in 2009, unless he is impeached beforehand (and there have been calls for this within Iran,) or we bomb iran and he regains support. he's been publicly censured by the Supreme Leader, who himself has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons and is continuously trying to explain in calmer, saner terms the inflammatory rhetoric of Ahmadenijad. officials in Iran have stated publicly that it is outrageous and ignorant to suggest that the Holocaust never happened, and people who know Persian have tried to point out that Ahmadenijad did not call for israel to be wiped off the map, but rather said something like: "the policies of the regime that currently occupies jerusalem will lead to its being erased from the pages of history." this is not a call to nuclear war against israel. bush says stupid crap like this everyday.
» Helpful, indeed
Posted by: maddy
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: JP-1
» RE: Helpful to Keep in Mind
Posted by: abraxas
» What?????
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I wish you were working for the mainstream media
Posted by: dikjosef
» Excellent
Posted by: worldwide65
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Posted by: babs on Oct 26, 2007 9:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watching and keeping their collective fingers crossed that big, bad America will not launch yet another illegal attack?
No. They are making their own plans to defend themselves. Might want to remind those DC dipshits that Iran has allies who are truly sick of the meddling and deaths caused by Bushco and will not let him repeat the Iraq adventure.
Who are they? China, Russia and most of the gulf states, not to mention India. All armed to the teeth, mobilized and waiting for the depleted U.S. military to try it.
None of these states want war but they will definitely go to the mat to punish the world-challenging hawks that are Bush and Cheney. There is much pent up rage in the world now and if Iran is hit, her allies will react and tiny Israel would be wise to stay out of it unless they favor glass craters rather than their country.
Indeed, if Israel's leaders were smart (they're not), they would distance themselves from Bushco as fast as possible. War on Iran would be a death sentence for them.
Another misadventure in the middle east will be the last nail in America's coffin. Will you let them do it?
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Posted by: ehsan on Oct 26, 2007 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O dear american friends mark words:your country invaded or went to war almost 700 times during the last one hundred years while the Iranians did not aggress against any country during the last almost 400 years of its history.they are a civilised people,not the up-starts of yester years.Have a heart telling the world that your soldiers are being killed by iranian arms in iraq,hence SANCTIONS.Bright boys. first of all tell me what are the american soldiers doing in Iraq.the US boys invaded iraq and the iraqis are fully justified in resisting this brutally immoral act of the americans.those in iraq who are resisting this dastardly action of the aggressor can justifiably seek help form neighbours and friends at a distance.do not forget when the americans colonies revolted against the British King in 1776,the French came to their help. that act France is a golden chapter in the country's history.Iran is perhaps doing not enough for its stupid neighbour who at the instance and support of the US waged a war aganist her for 8 years.to cut a long story short,be warned O ye US citizens going to war against Iran is against your national interests.believe me,do not be mislead by Cheney and the sick maniacal senator(i forget his name) who ran elections as vice prsidential candidate with GORE against the Republicans.Do not do it what they say;that is poison.you are already in grave economic troubles. they would land you into further troubles.see the writings on the wall.do not loose all the friends that you may still have.trust me.
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Posted by: Grousefeather on Oct 26, 2007 10:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: maxloen on Oct 26, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Just a small point of fact
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just a small point of fact
Posted by: maxloen
» RE: Just a small point of fact
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Re: Yellow
Posted by: jbur816
» What fluff pieces? The tanking US economy about which you so called "progressives" seem so ignorant?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: COmac on Oct 26, 2007 11:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over 30% of the terrorists on the 9/11 flights were Saudi. None were from Iraq.
Prior to 9/11 a strong faction of Saudi royals were trying to convert all the U.S. dollar debt they hold (many billions) into euros and thereby crushing the US financial market.
How come no news source strings together these things to show where this insanity is truly coming from and why?? I don't want the US to be destroyed defending Israel and some fat cats over some land or oil that they covet. I'll bet a majority of Americans will agree.
Fight for truth and against those that use position or power to hide from the truth.
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Posted by: Glennk1949 on Oct 26, 2007 11:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 26, 2007 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, what are the actual facts about nuclear weapons in the Middle East?
First, Israel has a large arsenal that they refuse to declare, and for some reason the U.S. supports Israel in that. Why? Speculation: the U.S. played a major role in arming Israel with nuclear weapons but doesn't want that known.
Second, Pakistan has a large arsenal, as does India (who refuses to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, as does Pakistan and Israel). Pakistan has close ties with Saudi Arabia. Could Saudi Arabia get their hands on nukes, and would they if they could? See Saudia Arabia working on secret nuclear program with Pakistan help - report, Forbes, 03.28.2006,.
Third, Russia is working closely with Iran over nuclear power, and has stated there is no evidence that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon. Putin Denounces `Madman' With Knife Approach to Iran Oct. 25 (Bloomberg)
So, what's really up here? What is Cheney's twisted mind thinking? One possibility is that this is a little Cold-War era brinkmanship game - using the threat of assault to gain some economic objective. Sometimes, far more information can be gleaned from financial business news than from any other source - see Russia: Bigger Than Big Oil, By David Lee Smith May 25, 2007
"Perhaps most astoundingly, late last year Russia quietly passed Saudi Arabia to become the world's biggest oil producer. After Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently agreed, face to face, to tone down their increasingly inflammatory rhetoric and concentrate instead on business, Russia's growing oil output and the U.S.'s corresponding decline seem increasingly meaningful, if not ominous."
So, my unsupported speculation here is that Cheney wants to kick Russia out of Iran, and that all his talk of launching an assault is just Cold War era brinkmanship by an aging dinosaur.
Or he really could be a stark, raving lunatic who is only one step away from starting World War III. Hard to say.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Earthian on Oct 26, 2007 12:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider what this means. If some nation did all of this to us, via UN Charter Article 51, we would have the legal right to inform the UNSC that we are invoking the Article 51 right of self-defense, and while we strike those preparing to strike us, we ask the SC to restore peace and prevent war. This is the legal right of preemption.
But the US government is the aggressor.
Iran has never invaded or occupied another nation, not in modern times. Iran has an inalienable right to their commercial nuclear enrichment program via Article 4 of the NPT. In fact the US has the obligation to help them develop it, while we have the obligation to engage in good faith efforts to negotiate for complete nuclear disarmament (via Article 6).
What does all this mean for progressives regarding a likely crime against peace by the US against Iran?
Simply this: Iran increasingly has a legal right to strike US forces provided they invoke Article 51 with the UNSC. They could destroy the so-called Green Zone. They could sink US carriers. They have a real military. The US could lose more soldiers in a day than so far in Iraq during the invasion and occupation.
So if and when Iran strikes out to defend itself from US government aggression, it is important for progressives to have a clear understanding of the legal and constitutional situation. The way to deal with such an outbreak of hostilities is not to rally behind US government leaders, but to hold them accountable for their crimes and seek peace with the Iranians.
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» RE: USA and the Nutty Left
Posted by: tap17x
» RE: USA and the Nutty Left: and the Nut, tap17x
Posted by: Perfectclue
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 26, 2007 2:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I read comments by Hitler and Germany haters all day long and I am just amazed at the level of complete ignorance on the part of the so many in this country and abroad. The left, social elite, god haters in both Germany and America are for the most part nothing more than ignorant snobs and they not Hitler are the greatest threat to world peace. Might I remind Europe that before Germany became a world power / policeman, it was the Oh-so-smart British, French and Russians that created war after war resulting in the slaughter of millions for thousands of years.
It was the "o-so-smart" British and French that lead the world into World War I then had the balls to call on the ignorant god believing Americans to help bail them out.
If one studies the bible (Which those on both the left are to smart to believe) it again will be the British, Russia and France NOT Germany or Hitler that start World War 2 resulting in the death of 2/3 of all life on the planet.
The problem is most on the left are to dam ignorant to believe in any type of god much less waste their time reading the bible. They would rather lecture us from their positions of snobbery and superior intellect. Let me just say one thing when you become to dam smart to believe in god you have become to dam smart. Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise they became fools.
I read and study the bible and so yes I guess I am just an ignorant god fearing flag waving German. But hear me now, and hear me good. From what I can tell in bible prophecy we are right on track for the Jewish Communist Alliance to be the next global world leader. Soon you will get your wish and the Germany will be out of the picture. When that happens and you fools are left to your own Superior Intellect god help you and all life on this planet.
You Will then cry out to the GOD you don't currently believe in and he will not hear you.
My last comment is this if you had half a brain you on the left and in Europe would get behind Germany and Hitler and support him rather than snob him and the good he is trying to do. But if history is any lesson I don't expect any one on the left, Europe or Russia to do so. You all would rather go down the path spelled out in the bible and watch the Jews and Communists become a global power. Watch then what your ignorance has brought you."
Try it with Stalin, Russia, Fascists, and in place of the bible put the words of Lenin and Karl Marx, and you get the same effect. Propaganda is always the same - no facts and a lot of blather.
» Hey! You removed the original!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Oct 26, 2007 2:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 26, 2007 4:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is less than zero evidence for this. Does anyone really think we would not know about this? Think for a moment.
For more on this, read Philip Giraldi here
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 26, 2007 4:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Iran: Daring Not to Accept USA/Israel Hegemony in the Middle East
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Chloe2005 on Oct 26, 2007 6:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JRedfern on Oct 27, 2007 9:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: DrColes on Oct 27, 2007 1:37 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Islamic Fascism declared war against the U.S. and all non-Islamic nations. The truth is the truth. Why would any free human want to suppress this? http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl
» Your a neocon shill. Go away.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: mwildfire on Oct 27, 2007 1:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weslen1 on Oct 27, 2007 2:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Gerald on Oct 27, 2007 2:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our navy know doubt knows this but our pilot-in-chief can't think that big.
» RE: gerald.sutliff@gmail.com
Posted by: dutch46
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Posted by: lukitas on Oct 27, 2007 8:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to be focusing on saving ourselves from global warming and petrol deprivation. We don't need global warfare.
And other people's oil will run out too. Whatever we do, we need to learn how to make do without petrol, because when all is said and done, it's gone. Whether it takes five years, fifty or a hundred for the wells to run dry is no matter. I am willing to take a very large bet that oil will become very expensive in a very short time - years rather than decades - to such an extent that car use will become the privilege of the very rich.
Millions of people will lack heat, and food, and have wet feet, or graves, the weather will be mostly bad - aridity contrasted with exceptional rainfall and high storms; we have prepared a peach of a future for ourselves. Do we really want the US to go to war with another smallish republic? Granted, it's a muslim republic, but what is so wrong about that? God talks to W., doesn't he? And anyhow, the war is already lost. They'll never get at the oil the way they wanted, Iraq is a worse mess than Vietnam. The day the U.S. attacks Iran, they are threatening planetary suicide. 'Give us anything we want or we nuke you'. Even Mao and Stalin or Hitler weren't as scary as that.
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Posted by: SteveMD2 on Oct 27, 2007 9:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Bush is the worst kind - he is not only imbued with a desire for unlimited power, but it is religious based. If you look at his face when he talks, you see this weird smile. The same kind of weird smile as that nut case minister Fred Phelps who celebrates at the funerals of our dead soldiers. So you have a nazi - sociopathic type personality mixed with a religious mentality that is as totally blind to decency and reality as those who gave us 9/11. He is also the equivalent of the combination of the evil roman emperors and totally corrupt Popes who gave the world the 1000+ years of the dark ages, when the world went nowhere economically, and 'christian' armies committed total sin against God, ravaging the middle east, killing 10's of millions of Muslims in order to steal the treasures of the advanced for its time Muslim civilization. No wonder they find it so easy to hate us, for they haven't forgotten their holocaust and more then the Jews will forget what happened to them even thousands of years in the future.
What Bush has done in Iraq, and may do with Iran, is to fall totally into the trap of Osama Bin Laden. By attacking a Muslim nation that had nothing to do with 9/11, Bush and co. have validated to Muslims worldwide that we are the enemy, and reminded their society that for 600 years, Christian armies ravaged the middle east, killing tens of millions "in the name of God", but really just to steal the treasures of their advanced for its time civilization. And the Iraq war is about stealing Iraqs oil, giving Iraq 10c on the dollar for their oil, while the rest goes to the profit pockets of our big oil buddies of the Bush family and Cheney's Halliburton.
And what has Bush and co. done to help the US end our fuel dependence on the middle east. Raise the US gas mileage standards significantly? NO. Put a $5/bulb tax on the old incandescents, and use it to subsidize the sale of compact fluorescents that save - really - 2/3 of the power of the old bulbs. NO. Put a gargantuan annual tax on the worst gas hogs, and use some of that money to subsidize home and business energy efficiency, e.g new high efficiency heaters / coolers, and building insulation. NO. Why, because he would attack the profits of his oil buddies who are behind the Iraq attack as much as any other reason. Exxons 2006 profits of $40 billion are sacred to the power of those who support Bush's neo-con or is it nazi agenda. The key reason for the Iraq war was oil profits, to steal the Iraqi's oil for the profits of the big oil companies who are pals and business partners of Cheney and the Bush family.
Compare that with Iraq. Bush and his gang will surely go to hell, most likely the same hell as Hitler, Stalin, and others of their ilk . Maybe his cellmate in hell will be Saddam. They certainly could find common ground.
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Posted by: Dominic Jermano on Oct 27, 2007 11:10 PM
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Saudi Arabia and Iran are 2 of the most vulnerable countries in the world with no defense from super powers who may turn on them. They strategically control most of the Worlds Natural Oil resources. Look at how this looks now. America has no Oil resources; attacks the countries that do. Now who is the Bully here? Sure they devise plans to stir instability by making out the guys who have the Oil are bad guys, but how do they get away with being so arrogant?
Iran's President may have said Israel should be wiped off the map, but in reality it is Israel who always has live nuclear weapons pointing at Iran. Who really wants who wiped off the map? Cetainly Israel does.
With Saudi Arabia and Iran unarmed they are fish in a barrel to any political heists from any super powers. If you were an Iranian or Saudi would you feel secure that one of the other super powers will stick up for you if another decides to invade? I know I would feel helpless. I would want the bomb to use as a deterent.
For the sake of argument, the reason we have terror is because rich resource oil countries have no access to the bomb. Israel has no Oil, but they have the bomb, just like the USA. They invaded Iraq who did not have the bomb. I think terror will remain, until Iran and Saudi Arabia have the bomb. If America bombs Iran, they will still keep trying to develop nuclear weapons, if not out right buying one from Russia, or Pakistan. They will hide it, and move it, and keep the US and other non-Oil super power countries on their good behavior so Oil deals are fair.
I think if we want peace, we should allow Iran and Saudi Arabia to have the Bomb. They will never use it. If they do, it is the end to their lives. Even Allah is not totally suicidal. Because his soldiers might be, does not mean he intends their whole society to perish from the planet, because of irresponsibility from a leader. They are in my opinion not out to destroy their peoples. Even Saddam was not that mad. Our invasion proved his unwillingness to unleash chemical or WMD even at war.
Our greatest threat is our own countries leadership Bush and Cheney and the money backers to their syndicate. I feel more threatened that they will destroy Americans with the bomb, before I feel threatened that Iran or Saudi Arabia would attack us if they had the bomb. Iran and Saudi Arabia are not PRE-EMPTIVE lunatics. I know Bush did 911, what's stopping them from annhiliating Chicago? The fact that they know they are wrong, can't bring themselves to admit it, can't face the embarrassment, and only biding time for their exit or strategy to wage another war. And they don't want radiation drifting to the Washington DC.
The only way is to impeach and cut off the power. I declare Bush and Cheney are no longer our leaders, so do not obey their orders or threats.
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Oct 28, 2007 7:11 AM
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Vote for Dr. Ron Paul, the only anti-war, pro-freedom candidate.
» Israel doesn't benefit my child unless you consider soldiers dying in the OPT everyday a benefit.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Dr. Ron Paul the only candidate that will stop the War
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» Good point! I support Obama but would go for Ron Paul as well, the only Republican with a conscience
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: humanity101 on Oct 28, 2007 10:10 PM
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Posted by: peter_maryb on Oct 29, 2007 1:54 AM
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How can you Americans be so naive? Democracy has nothing to do with it.
As I write (10/29/07), the king of a corrupt regime as tough as Soviet East Germany ever was is being entertained with a State visit to Buckingham Palace and Whitehall. King Abdulla of Saudi Arabia is getting the full treatment.
When we speak of Africa, we often mention in the same breath "Corruption". This absolute monarch and his family preside over public decapitations and floggings of women caught in the act of adultery [Documented in "Death of a Princess", a film which the Saudis tried to ban in Britain - yes in a free speech democracy.], amputations of limbs of criminals, total banning of women's rights, mass arrests of anyone who opposes the regime, secret prisons, torture of innocent and guilty alike, and the acceptance of huge bribes - all widely and independently documented - as part of their arms purchases from the United Kingdom. Indeed, the Blair government ordered the British Serious Fraud Office to cease it's investigation of BAE bribes totalling millions of dollars to a senior member of the Saudi Royal family on the grounds that it would "prejudice national security".
One other thing. The Saudis have oil, lots of it. And massive US and CIA presence across all the Saudi states. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. In our "informed democracies".
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