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Bush's Response to 9/11 Was Deadlier Than the Attacks Themselves
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They came in as unreformed Cold Warriors, only lacking a cold war -- and looking for an enemy: a Russia to roll back even further; rogue states like Saddam's rickety dictatorship to smash. They were still in the old fight, eager to make sure that the "Evil Empire," already long down for the count, would remain prostrate forever; eager to ensure that any new evil empire like, say, China's would never be able to stand tall enough to be a challenge. They saw opportunities to move into areas previously beyond the reach of American imperial power like the former SSRs of the Soviet Union in Central Asia, which just happened to be sitting on potentially fabulous undeveloped energy fields; or farther into the even more fabulously energy-rich Middle East, where Saddam's Iraq, planted atop the planet's third largest reserves of petroleum, seemed so ready for a fall -- with other states in the region visibly not far behind.
It looked like it would be a coming-out party for one -- the debutante ball of the season. It would be, in fact, like the Cold War without the Soviet Union. What a blast! And they could still put their energies into their fabulously expensive, ever-misfiring anti-missile system, a subject they regularly focused on from January 2000 until September 10, 2001.
They were Cold Warriors in search of an enemy -- just not the one they got. When the Clintonistas, on their way out of the White House, warned them about al Qaeda, they paid next to no attention. Non-state actors were for wusses. When the CIA carefully presented the President with a one-page, knock-your-socks-off warning on August 6, 2001 that had the screaming headline, "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.," they ignored it. Bush and his top officials were, as it happened, strangely adrift until September 11, 2001; then, they were panicked and terrified -- until they realized that their moment had come to hijack the plane of state; so they clambered aboard, and like the Cold Warriors they were, went after Saddam.
Chalmers Johnson was himself once a Cold Warrior. Unlike the top officials of the Bush administration, however, he retained a remarkably flexible mind. He also had a striking ability to see the world as it actually was -- and a prescient vision of what was to come. He wrote the near-prophetic and now-classic book, Blowback, published well before the attacks of 9/11, and then followed it up with an anatomy of the U.S. military's empire of bases, The Sorrows of Empire, and finally, to end his Blowback Trilogy, a vivid recipe for American catastrophe, Nemesis: The Fall of the American Republic. All three are simply indispensable volumes in any reasonable post-9/11 library. Here is his latest consideration of that disastrous moment and its consequences as part of a series of book reviews he is periodically writing for Tomdispatch.
A Guide for the Perplexed: Intellectual Fallacies of the War on Terror
By Chalmers Johnson
This essay is a review of The Matador's Cape: America's Reckless Response to Terror by Stephen Holmes (Cambridge University Press, 367 pp., $30).]
There are many books entitled "A Guide for the Perplexed," including Moses Maimonides' 12th century treatise on Jewish law and E. F. Schumacher's 1977 book on how to think about science. Book titles cannot be copyrighted. A Guide for the Perplexed might therefore be a better title for Stephen Holmes' new book than the one he chose, The Matador's Cape: America's Reckless Response to Terror. In his perhaps overly clever conception, the matador is the terrorist leadership of al Qaeda, taunting a maddened United States into an ultimately fatal reaction. But do not let the title stop you from reading the book. Holmes has written a powerful and philosophically erudite survey of what we think we understand about the 9/11 attacks -- and how and why the United States has magnified many times over the initial damage caused by the terrorists.
Stephen Holmes is a law professor at New York University. In The Matador's Cape, he sets out to forge an understanding -- in an intellectual and historical sense, not as a matter of journalism or of partisan politics -- of the Iraq war, which he calls "one of the worst (and least comprehensible) blunders in the history of American foreign policy" (p. 230). His modus operandi is to survey in depth approximately a dozen influential books on post-Cold War international politics to see what light they shed on America's missteps. I will touch briefly on the books he chooses for dissection, highlighting his essential thoughts on each of them.
Holmes' choice of books is interesting. Many of the authors he focuses on are American conservatives or neoconservatives, which is reasonable since they are the ones who caused the debacle. He avoids progressive or left wing writers, and none of his choices are from Metropolitan Books' American Empire Project. (Disclosure: This review was written before I read Holmes' review of my own book Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic in the October 29 issue of The Nation.)
He concludes: "Despite a slew of carefully researched and insightful books on the subject, the reason why the United States responded to the al Qaeda attack by invading Iraq remains to some extent an enigma" (p. 3). Nonetheless, his critiques of the books he has chosen are so well done and fair that they constitute one of the best introductions to the subject. They also have the advantage in several cases of making it unnecessary to read the original.
Holmes interrogates his subjects cleverly. His main questions and the key books he dissects for each of them are:
* Did Islamic religious extremism cause 9/11? Here he supplies his own independent analysis and conclusion (to which I turn below).
* Why did American military preeminence breed delusions of omnipotence, as exemplified in Robert Kagan's Of Paradise and Power: America and Europe in the New World Order (Knopf, 2003)? While not persuaded by Kagan's portrayal of the United States as "Mars" and Europe as "Venus," Holmes takes Kagan's book as illustrative of neoconservative thought on the use of force in international politics: "Far from guaranteeing an unbiased and clear-eyed view of the terrorist threat, as Kagan contends, American military superiority has irredeemably skewed the country's view of the enemy on the horizon, drawing the United States, with appalling consequences, into a gratuitous, cruel, and unwinnable conflict in the Middle East" (p. 72).
* How was the war lost, as analyzed in Cobra II: The Inside Story of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq by Michael Gordon and Bernard Trainor (Pantheon, 2006)? Holmes regards this book by Gordon, the military correspondent of the New York Times, and Trainor, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant general, as the best treatment of the military aspects of the disaster, down to and including U.S. envoy L. Paul Bremer's disbanding of the Iraqi military. I would argue that Fiasco (Penguin 2006) by the Washington Post's Thomas Ricks is more comprehensive, clearer-eyed, and more critical.
* How did a tiny group of individuals, with eccentric theories and reflexes, recklessly compound the country's post-9/11 security nightmare? Here Holmes considers James Mann's Rise of the Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet (Viking, 2004). One of Mann's more original insights is that the neocons in the Bush administration were so bewitched by Cold War thinking that they were simply incapable of grasping the new realities of the post-Cold War world. "In Iraq, alas, the lack of a major military rival excited some aging hard-liners into toppling a regime that they did not have the slightest clue how to replace.... We have only begun to witness the long-term consequences of their ghastly misuse of unaccountable power" (p. 106).
* What roles did Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld play in the Bush administration, as captured in Michael Mann's Incoherent Empire (Verso, 2003)? According to Holmes, Mann's work "repays close study, even by readers who will not find its perspective altogether congenial or convincing." He argues that perhaps Mann's most important contribution, even if somewhat mechanically put, is to stress the element of bureaucratic politics in Cheney's and Rumsfeld's manipulation of the neophyte Bush: "The outcome of inter- and intra-agency battles in Washington, D.C., allotted disproportionate influence to the fatally blurred understanding of the terrorist threat shared by a few highly placed and shrewd bureaucratic infighters. Rumsfeld and Cheney controlled the military; and when they were given the opportunity to rank the country's priorities in the war on terror, they assigned paramount importance to those specific threats that could be countered effectively only by the government agency over which they happened to preside" (p. 107).
* Why did the U.S. decide to search for a new enemy after the Cold War, as argued by an old cold warrior, Samuel Huntington, in The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order (Simon and Schuster, 1996)? It is not clear why Holmes included Huntington's eleven-year-old treatise on "Allah made them do it" in his collection of books on post-Cold War international politics except as an act of obeisance to establishmentarian -- and especially Council-on-Foreign-Relations -- thinking. Holmes regards Huntington's work as a "false template" and calls it misleading. Well before 9/11, many critics of Huntington's concept of "civilization" had pointed out that there is insufficient homogeneity in Christianity, Islam, or the other great religions for any of them to replace the position vacated by the Soviet Union. As Holmes remarks, Huntington "finds homogeneity because he is looking for homogeneity" (p. 136).
* What role did left-wing ideology play in legitimating the war on terror, as seen by Samantha Power in "A Problem from Hell": America and the Age of Genocide (Basic, 2002). As Holmes acknowledges, "The humanitarian interventionists rose to a superficial prominence in the 1990s largely because of a vacuum in U.S. foreign-policy thinking after the end of the Cold War. ... Their influence was small, however, and after 9/11, that influence vanished altogether." He nonetheless takes up the anti-genocide activists because he suspects that, by making a rhetorically powerful case for casting aside existing decision-making rules and protocols, they may have emboldened the Bush administration to follow suit and fight the "evil" of terrorism outside the Constitution and the law. The idea that Power was an influence on Cheney and Rumsfeld may seem a stretch -- they were, after all, doing what they had always wanted to do -- but Holmes' argument that "a savvy prowar party may successfully employ humanitarian talk both to gull the wider public and to silence potential critics on the liberal side" (p. 157) is worth considering.
* How did pro-war liberals help stifle national debate on the wisdom of the Iraq war, as illustrated by Paul Berman in Power and the Idealists (Soft Skull Press, 2005)? Wildly overstating his influence, Holmes writes, Berman, a regular columnist for The New Republic, "first tried to convince us that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, far from being a tribal war over scarce land and water, is part of the wider spiritual war between liberalism and apocalyptic irrationalism, not worth distinguishing too sharply from the conflict between America and al Qaeda. He then attempted to show that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden represented two 'branches' of an essentially homogeneous extremism" (p. 181). Berman, Holmes points out, conflated anti-terrorism with anti-fascism in order to provide a foundation for the neologism "Islamo-fascism." His chief reason for including Berman is that Holmes wants to address the views of religious fundamentalists in their support of the war on terrorism.
* How did democratization at the point of an assault rifle become America's mission in the world, as seen by the apostate neoconservative Francis Fukuyama in America at the Crossroads: Democracy, Power, and the Neoconservative Legacy (Yale University Press, 2006)? Holmes is interested in Fukuyama, the neoconservatives' perennial sophomore, because he offers an insider's insights into the chimerical neocon "democratization" project for the Middle East.
Fukuyama argues that democracy is the most effective antidote to the kind of Islamic radicalism that hit the United States on September 11, 2001. He contends that the root of Islamic rebellion is to be found in the savage and effective repression of protestors -- many of whom have been driven into exile -- in places like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. Terrorism is not the enemy, merely a tactic Islamic radicals have found exceptionally effective. Holmes writes of Fukuyama's argument, "[T]o recognize that America's fundamental problem is Islamic radicalism, and that terrorism is only a symptom, is to invite a political solution. Promoting democracy is just such a political solution" (p. 209).
The problem, of course, is that not even the neocons are united on promoting democracy; and, even if they were, they do not know how to go about it. Fukuyama himself pleads for "a dramatic demilitarization of American foreign policy and a re-emphasis on other types of policy instruments." The Pentagon, in addition to its other deficiencies, is poorly positioned and incorrectly staffed to foster democratic transitions.
* Why is the contemporary American antiwar movement so anemic, as seen through the lens of history by Geoffrey Stone in Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime from the Sedition Act of 1798 to the War on Terrorism (W. W. Norton, 2004)? Holmes has nothing but praise for Stone's history of expanded executive discretion in wartime. A key question raised by Stone is why the American public has not been more concerned with what happened in Iraq at Abu Ghraib prison and in the wholesale destruction of the Sunni city of Fallujah. As Holmes sees it, the Bush administration, at least in this one area, was adept at subverting public protest. Among the more important lessons George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Karl Rove, and others learned from the Vietnam conflict, he writes, was that if you want to suppress domestic questioning of foreign military adventures, then eliminate the draft, create an all-volunteer force, reduce domestic taxes, and maintain a false prosperity based on foreign borrowing.
* How did the embracing of American unilateralism elevate the Office of the Secretary of Defense over the Department of State, as put into perspective by John Ikenberry in After Victory: Institutions, Strategic Restraint, and the Rebuilding of Order After Major Wars (Princeton University Press, 2001)? This book is Holmes' oddest choice -- a dated history from an establishmentarian point of view of the international institutions created by the United States after World War II, including the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and NATO, all of which Ikenberry, a prominent academic specialist in international relations, applauds. Holmes agrees that, during the Cold War, the United States ruled largely through indirection, using seemingly impartial international institutions, and eliciting the cooperation of other nations. He laments the failure to follow this proven formula in the post-9/11 era, which led to the eclipse of the State Department by the Defense Department, an institution hopelessly ill-suited for diplomatic and nation-building missions.
* Why do we battle lawlessness with lawlessness (for example, by torturing prisoners) and concentrate extra-Constitutional authority in the hands of the president, as expounded by John Yoo in The Powers of War and Peace: The Constitution and Foreign Affairs After 9/11 (University of Chicago Press, 2005)? In this final section, Holmes puts on his hat as the law professor he is and takes on George Bush's and Alberto Gonzales' in-house legal counsel, the University of California, Berkeley law professor John Yoo, who authored the "torture memos" for them, denied the legality of the Geneva Conventions, and elaborated a grandiose view of the President's war-making power. Holmes wonders, "Why would an aspiring legal scholar labor for years to develop and defend a historical thesis that is manifestly untrue? What is the point and what is the payoff? That is the principal mystery of Yoo's singular book. Characteristic of The Powers of War and Peace is the anemic relations between the evidence adduced and the inferences drawn" (p. 291).
Holmes then points out that Yoo is a prominent member of the Federalist Society, an association of conservative Republican lawyers who claim to be committed to recovering the original understanding of the Constitution and which includes several Republican appointees to the current Supreme Court. His conclusion on Yoo and his fellow neocons is devastating: "[I]f the misbegotten Iraq war proves anything, it is the foolhardiness of allowing an autistic clique that reads its own newspapers and watches its own cable news channel to decide, without outsider input, where to expend American blood and treasure -- that is, to decide which looming threats to stress and which to downplay or ignore" (p. 301).
Is Islam the Culprit or Merely a Distraction?
In addition to these broad themes, Holmes investigates hidden agendas and their distorting effects on rational policy-making. Some of these are: Cheney's desire to expand executive power and weaken Congressional oversight; Rumsfeld's schemes to field-test his theory that in modern warfare speed is more important than mass; the plans by some of Cheney's and Rumsfeld's advisers to improve the security situation of Israel; the administration's desire to create a new set of permanent U.S. military bases in the Middle East to protect the U.S. oil supply in case of a collapse of the Saudi monarchy; and the desire to invade Iraq and thereby avoid putting all the blame for 9/11 on al Qaeda -- because to do so would have involved admitting administration negligence and incompetence during the first nine months of 2001 and, even worse, that Clinton was right in warning Bush and his top officials that the main security threat to the United States was a potential al Qaeda attack or attacks.
This is not the place to attempt a comprehensive review of Holmes' detailed critiques. For that, one should buy and read his book. Let me instead dwell on three themes that I think illustrate his insight and originality.
Holmes rejects any direct connection between Islamic religious extremism and the 9/11 attacks, although he recognizes that Islamic vilification of the United States and other Western powers is often expressed in apocalyptically religious language. "Emphasizing religious extremism as the motivation for the [9/11] plot, whatever it reveals," he argues, "...terminates inquiry prematurely, encouraging us to view the attack ahistorically as an expression of 'radical Salafism,' a fundamentalist movement within Islam that allegedly drives its adherents to homicidal violence against infidels" (p. 2). This approach, he points out, is distinctly tautological: "Appeals to social norms or a culture of martyrdom are not very helpful.... They are tantamount to saying that suicidal terrorism is caused by a proclivity to suicidal terrorism" (p. 20).
Instead, he suggests, "The mobilizing ideology behind 9/11 was not Islam, or even Islamic fundamentalism, but rather a specific narrative of blame" (p. 63). He insists on putting the focus on the actual perpetrators, the 19 men who executed the attacks in New York and Washington -- 15 Saudi Arabians, two citizens of the United Arab Emirates, one Egyptian, and one Lebanese. None of them was particularly religious. Three were living together in Hamburg, Germany, where they did appear to have become more interested in Islam than they had been in their home countries. Mohamed Atta, the leader of the group, age 33 on 9/11, had Egyptian and German degrees in architecture and city planning and became highly politicized in favor of the Palestinian cause against Zionism only after he went abroad.
Holmes notes, "According to the classic study of resentment, [Friedrich Nietzsche's On the Genealogy of Morals (1887)] 'every sufferer instinctively seeks a cause for his suffering; more specifically, an agent, a "guilty" agent who is susceptible of pain -- in short, some living being or other on whom he can vent his feelings directly or in effigy, under some pretext or other.' If suffering is seen as natural or uncaused it will be coded as misfortune instead of injustice, and it will produce resignation rather than rebellion. The most efficient way to incite, therefore, is to indict" (p. 64).
The role of bin Laden was, and remains, to provide such a hyperbolic indictment -- one that men like Atta would never have heard back in authoritarian Egypt but that came through loud and clear in their German exile. Bin Laden demonized the United States, accusing it of genocide against Muslims and repeatedly contending that the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia ever since the first Gulf War in 1991 was a far graver offense than the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, even though that had led to the death of one million Afghans and had sent five million more into exile.
The fact that the 9/11 plot involved the attackers' own self-destruction suggests possible irrationality on their part, but Holmes argues that this was actually part of the specific narrative of blame. Americans feel contempt for Muslims and ascribe little or no value to Muslim lives. Therefore, to be captured after a terrorist attack involved a high likelihood that the Americans would torture the perpetrator. Suicide took care of that worry (and provided several other advantages discussed below).
The United States as "Sole Remaining Superpower"
Another subject about which Holmes is strikingly original is the subtle way in which the collapse of the former Soviet Union and the United States' self-promotion as the sole remaining superpower clouded our vision and virtually guaranteed the catastrophe that ensued in Iraq. "Because Americans.... have sunk so much of their national treasure into a military establishment fit to deter and perhaps fight an enemy that has now disappeared," he argues, "they have an almost irresistible inclination to exaggerate the centrality of rogue states, excellent targets for military destruction, [above] the overall terrorist threat. They overestimate war (which never unfolds as expected) and underestimate diplomacy and persuasion as instruments of American power" (pp. 71-72).
Holmes draws several interesting implications from this American overinvestment in Cold-War-type military power. One is that the very nature of the 9/11 attacks undermined crucial axioms of American national security doctrine. In a much more significant way than in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, a non-state actor on the international stage successfully attacked the United States, contrary to a well-established belief in Pentagon circles that only states have the capability of menacing us militarily. Equally alarming, by employing a strategy requiring their own deaths, the terrorists ensured that deterrence no longer held sway. Overwhelming military might cannot deter non-state actors who accept that they will die in their attacks on others. The day after 9/11, American leaders in Washington D.C. suddenly felt unprotected and defenseless against a new threat they only imperfectly understood. They responded in various ways.
One was to recast what had happened in terms of Cold-War thinking. "To repress feelings of defenselessness associated with an unfamiliar threat, the decision makers' gaze slid uncontrollably away from al Qaeda and fixated on a recognizable threat that was unquestionably susceptible to being broken into bits" (p.312). Holmes calls this fusion of bin Laden and Saddam Hussein a "mental alchemy, the 'reconceiving' of an impalpable enemy as a palpable enemy." He endorses James Mann's thesis that Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and others did not change the underlying principles guiding American foreign policy in response to the 9/11 attacks; that, in fact, they did the exact opposite: "[T]he Bush administration has managed foreign affairs so ineptly because it has been reflexively implementing out-of-date formulas in a radically changed security environment" (p. 106).
Unintended consequences also played a role, Holmes argues: "If conservative Congressmen had not blocked [Pennsylvania Governor] Tom Ridge's nomination as Defense Secretary [in 2000] for the ludicrously immaterial reason that he was wobbly on abortion, then the Cheney-Rumsfeld group, including Wolfowitz and [Douglas] Feith, would have been in no position to hijack the administration's reaction to 9/11" (pp. 93-94). Rumsfeld enthusiastically endorsed Bush's description of his "new" policies as a "war" because the Office of the Secretary of Defense then became the lead agency in designing and carrying out America's response.
There was little or no countervailing influence. "By sheer chance," Holmes writes, "Rice and Powell -- no doubt orderly managers -- have pedestrian minds and perhaps deferential personalities. Neither provided a gripping and persuasive vision of the United States' role in the world that might have counteracted the megalomania of the neoconservatives, and neither was capable of outfoxing the hard-liners in an interagency power struggle" (p. 94).
The costs of equating al Qaeda with Iraq and of concentrating on a military response were high. "It meant that some of the troops sent to Iraq in the first wave believed, disgracefully, that they were avenging the 3,000 dead from September 11.... Cruel and arbitrary behavior by some U.S. forces helped stoke the violent insurgency that followed" (p. 307).
American confusion about the nature of the enemy -- rogue state vs. non-state terrorist organization -- produced two different counterstrategies, both of which almost certainly made the situation worse. First, by focusing on a rogue state (Iraq), rather than on a non-state actor (al Qaeda), the Pentagon drew attention to what it came to call the "hand-off scenario" in which a nuclear-armed rogue state might hand over weapons of mass destruction to terrorists who would use them against the U.S. To counter this threat, the Pentagon developed a strategy of preventive war against rogue states with the objective of bringing about regime change in them. The only way to prevent nuclear proliferation to terrorist groups -- so the argument went -- was to forcibly democratize Middle Eastern authoritarian regimes, some of which had long been allied with the United States.
The other strategy was a return to what seemed like a form of deterrence: a "scare the Muslims" campaign. This involved a resort to massive "shock and awe" bombing raids on Baghdad with the intent of demonstrating the futility of defying the United States.
By reacting to the threat of modern terrorism with an attack on a substitute target -- without even bothering to calculate the enormous potential costs involved -- the Pentagon greatly overestimated what military force could achieve. Both the regime-change and overawe-the-Muslims approaches carried with them potentially devastating unintended consequences -- particularly if any of the premises, such as about who possessed WMD, were wrong. Overly abstract ideas were substituted for empirical knowledge of, and logical responses to, an enemy's capabilities. Thus, insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan, two devastated, poor countries, have managed to fight one of the most powerful American expeditionary forces in history to a virtual standstill. In short, "America's bellicose response to the 9/11 provocation was not only dishonorable and unethical, given the cruel suffering it has inflicted on thousands of innocents, but also imprudent in the extreme because it was bound to produce as much hatred as fear, as much burning desire for reprisal as quaking paralysis and docility. Some of the sickening effects are unfolding before our eyes. That even more malevolent consequences remain in store is a grim possibility not to be wished away" (p. 10).
Complicity of the Left in American Imperialism
Holmes is also interesting on why the American Left has been so ineffectual in countering the efforts of Washington's pro-war party. Deeply guilt-ridden over the Clinton administration's failure to stop the genocide in Rwanda and frustrated by the constraints of international law and United Nations procedures, some influential progressives in America had already advocated a preemptive and unilateralist turn in American foreign policy that the Bush administration hijacked. Human rights activists had heavily promoted intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo to halt ethnic cleansing -- and doing so without any international sanction whatsoever. Some of them became as enthusiastic about using the American armed forces to achieve limited foreign policy goals as many neocons. Even U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Madeleine Albright made herself notorious with her 1993 wisecrack to then Joint Chiefs Chairman Colin Powell: "What's the point of having this superb military that you're always talking about if we can't use it?"
Although Holmes tries not to overstate his case, he suspects that the humanitarian interventionism of the 1990s -- at one point he speaks of "human rights as imperial ideology" (p. 190) -- may have played at least a small role in the public's acceptance of Bush's intervention in Iraq. If so, it is hard to imagine a better example of the disasters that good intentions can sometimes produce. The result in Iraq, in turn, has more or less silenced calls from the Left for further campaigns of military intervention for humanitarian purposes. The U.S. is conspicuously not participating in the U.N. intervention in the Darfur region of Sudan.
The Rule of Law
As a legal scholar, Holmes is committed to the rule of law. "[L]aw is best understood," he writes, "not as a set of rigid rules but rather as a set of institutional mechanisms and procedures designed to correct the mistakes that even exceptionally talented executive officials are bound to make and to facilitate midstream readjustments and course corrections. If we understand law, constitutionalism, and due process in this way, then it becomes obvious why the war on terrorism is bound to fail when conducted, as it has been so far, against the rule of law and outside the constitutional system of checks and balances" (p. 5).
This short-circuiting of normal constitutional procedures he sees as probably the most consequential post-9/11 blunder of the Bush administration. The President's repeated claims that he needs high levels of secrecy and the ability to arbitrarily cancel established law in order to move decisively against terrorists draw his utter contempt. "By dismantling checks and balances, along the lines idealized and celebrated by [John] Yoo, the administration has certainly gained flexibility in the 'war on terror.' It has gained the flexibility, in particular, to shoot first and aim afterward" (p. 301). Although such an assumption of dictatorial powers has happened before during periods of national emergency in the United States, Holmes is convinced that the humanitarian interventionism of the 1990s helped anesthetize many Americans to the implications of what the government was doing after 9/11.
Even now, with the Iraq War all but lost and public opinion having turned decisively against the President, there is still a flabbiness in mainstream criticism that reveals a major weakness in the conduct of American foreign policy. For example, while many hawks and doves today recognize that Rumsfeld mobilized too few forces to achieve his military objectives in Iraq, they tend to concentrate on his rejection of former Army Chief of Staff General Eric Shinseki's advice that he needed a larger army of occupation. They almost totally ignore the true national policy implications of Rumsfeld's failed leadership. Holmes writes, "If Saddam Hussein had actually possessed the tons of chemical and biological weapons that, in the president's talking points, constituted the casus belli for the invasion, Rumsfeld's slimmed-down force would have abetted the greatest proliferation disaster in world history" (p. 82). He quotes Michael Gordon and Bernard Trainor: "Securing the WMD required sealing the country's borders and quickly seizing control of the many suspected sites before they were raided by profiteers, terrorists, and regime officials determined to carry on the fight. The force that Rumsfeld eventually assembled, by contrast, was too small to do any of this" (pp. 84-85). As a matter of fact, looters did ransack the Iraqi nuclear research center at al Tuwaitha. No one pointed out these flaws in the strategy until well after the invasion had revealed that, luckily, Saddam had no WMD.
With this book, Stephen Holmes largely succeeds in elevating criticism of contemporary American imperialism in the Middle East to a new level. In my opinion, however, he underplays the roles of American imperialism and militarism in exploiting the 9/11 crisis to serve vested interests in the military-industrial complex, the petroleum industry, and the military establishment. Holmes leaves the false impression that the political system of the United States is capable of a successful course correction. But, as Andrew Bacevich, author of The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced by War, puts it: "None of the Democrats vying to replace President Bush is doing so with the promise of reviving the system of checks and balances.... The aim of the party out of power is not to cut the presidency down to size but to seize it, not to reduce the prerogatives of the executive branch but to regain them."
There is, I believe, only one solution to the crisis we face. The American people must make the decision to dismantle both the empire that has been created in their name and the huge, still growing military establishment that undergirds it. It is a task at least comparable to that undertaken by the British government when, after World War II, it liquidated the British Empire. By doing so, Britain avoided the fate of the Roman Republic -- becoming a domestic tyranny and losing its democracy, as would have been required if it had continued to try to dominate much of the world by force. To take up these subjects, however, moves the discussion into largely unexplored territory. For now, Holmes has done a wonderful job of clearing the underbrush and preparing the way for the public to address this more or less taboo subject.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: TT20 on Oct 24, 2007 12:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
+9/11 was an inside job!!!
» RE: Theres a point there! - More than a point!
Posted by: Jim
» RE: Theres a point there! - More than a point!
Posted by: Intellect
» 9/11 is THE Central Issue to Our Understanding of Events
Posted by: phollings
» controlled demolition? Impossible, as no concurrent tremors were registered by seismographs
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: seismographs prove free-fall speed, not collapse
Posted by: channing
» the papers you quote are not in a scientific journal & don't count
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE:you didn't address my point, nor my references, did you?
Posted by: channing
» The best link and
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: HEY 9-11 CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
Posted by: pammers
» RE: HEY 9-11 CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: HEY 9-11 CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Conspiracy theorists are just like Bush
Posted by: war_on_tara
» A lot of dumb comments here
Posted by: johndoraemi
» CONSPIRACY FACTS (FOR INBRED MORONS, AND OTHERS)
Posted by: johndoraemi
» RE: Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil... there, life is all better now.
Posted by: channing
» CONSPIRACY "Facts" taken apart one by one: my own list (part1 of 2)
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: CONSPIRACY "Facts" taken apart one by one: my own list (part2 of 2)
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Counter-Propagandizer Inc.
Posted by: channing
» quick responses
Posted by: counterpoint
» I thought you were responding to MY "CONSPIRACY FACTS" RIGHT ABOVE
Posted by: johndoraemi
» "Facts?" = You WERE pretending to respond to me, you shill
Posted by: johndoraemi
» RE: "Facts?" = You WERE pretending to respond to me, you shill
Posted by: counterpoint
» Deceitful tactics (and poor logic) of the "Debunkers"
Posted by: johndoraemi
» your 'tactic': calling me a "maggot"
Posted by: counterpoint
» 1.5 million Iraqis
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Theres a point there!
Posted by: odom79
» RE: Theres a point there!
Posted by: Bibsi
» actually about 2800 killed on 9/11
Posted by: gretavo
» No one proved it was an inside job. That Bush saw it coming and did nothing is a stronger argument.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Actually it IS PROVEN that someone INSIDE was involved
Posted by: channing
» doesn't matter if Bush and Co. ordered it or not.
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: There is a difference between "bush" and "co"
Posted by: channing
» Depends on What you Mean by "Proof"
Posted by: gary_7vn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vox persona on Oct 24, 2007 1:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» wonderfully concise description
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Yep, and I love your posts too, Vox!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: 9/11 was right on schedule
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» The best website
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE THE LIES AND DECEPTION OF 9/11
Posted by: Zeitgeist
» The best summary of the 9/11 truth
Posted by: jbur816
» No, he's not preaching to the choir. AlterNet, like Bill Maher, ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE THE LIES AND DECEPTION OF 9/11
Posted by: Bibsi
» RE: IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE THE LIES AND DECEPTION OF 9/11
Posted by: blitzmesser
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lector on Oct 24, 2007 1:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And following the 59 month period after 9/11, terrorist activity and violence grew by 250 per cent around the world. This was, I’m sure, beyond bin Laden’s nastiest dreams. Bin Laden and Bush needed each other to survive. For OBL Bush’s response was a dynamic for spreading new terrorist activity and for Bush a way to establish his legitimacy as a leader.
Pointless Navigation
» RE: propaganda technics
Posted by: richholland
» WASTE: & CHRISTIAN AMERICA & RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Also the junta’s chance to use Hitler’s 1938 burning of the Reichstag tactic
Posted by: odom79
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Oct 24, 2007 1:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter the cost of accepting reality.
"When I became a man, I put away childish things."
And there is nothing so childish, so absolutely insane, than undeserved unearned blind patriotism perverted into fascist nationalism.
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: jbur816
» Blind patriotism
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Blind patriotism - Cathy, you NAILED it!
Posted by: xbj
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: Bibsi
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Oct 24, 2007 2:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Monster!
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Moira61
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Bibsi
» He's a very sick guy but those pulling his strings are truly EVIL --
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Moira61
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: blitzmesser
Comments are closed-
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Oct 24, 2007 3:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: wonderfully concise description
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» WW3 has already begun - its just a question of how and when it ends
Posted by: Cathyc
» The WWIII thing is neo-con bullshit. There is no reason for this type of hyperbole.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au on Oct 24, 2007 4:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Never mind, we still love you (except for Bush and the Neocons). My wife is American. :-)
Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: tooldoc60
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» I've just given a description of what would have happened if a real plane had hit.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» That's exactly where you're 100% wrong
Posted by: hagwind
» And I'm at least 5.5% wrong
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Goodness, there's that nonsense.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Disrespectful
Posted by: debjbaba
» NOT Disrespectful!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Grave disrespect
Posted by: Cathyc
» Let's just get it to court, We'll iron it out there.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Let's just get it to court, We'll iron it out there.
Posted by: Lauren
» Go to Court? Where is the JUSTICE in America?
Posted by: Cathyc
» Is Hoogenboom Even a Real Human Name?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: Is Hoogenboom Even a Real Human Name?
Posted by: badkitty
» Did you read what I said? A real plane would have smashed against the wall.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Is Hoogenboom Impervious to Sarcasm?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» That is not a video of a plane hitting a WTC tower.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Have you ever seen a network studio?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» Mr. Hoogenboom - Sir, with respect
Posted by: LeftWright
» Hi, LeftWright! I'll keep an open mind. And I am not saying NOTHING hit the buildings ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» I would humbly request that you remain neutral on this subject,
Posted by: LeftWright
» Empire State Building Impact - No Plane!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» a guide to the perplexed... "fake planes at the WTC" talk is deliberately nonsensical
Posted by: gretavo
» RE: a guide to the perplexed... "fake planes at the WTC" talk is deliberately nonsensical
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: a guide to the perplexed... "fake planes at the WTC" talk is deliberately nonsensical
Posted by: channing
» Intersting thought, Russian satellite records!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» While there is ample evidence that the networks
Posted by: LeftWright
» OK, tonight when I get home from work I'll put together links to analyses I find compelling.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Look at this video. To think this is a real plane hitting is absurd.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Mr. Hoogenboom - you keep repeating a basic fallacy which completely undercuts your thesis
Posted by: LeftWright
» Good Try LeftWright!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: Great effort LeftWright, gary_7vn and hoogenboom!
Posted by: channing
» Absolutely right, Channing
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» You are correct, Higgenboom is not the enemy!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: You are correct, Higgenboom is not the enemy!
Posted by: channing
» RE: CORRECTION: Question 3: poorly phrased... Plus
Posted by: channing
» Why don't you wipe the foam off your mouth, calm down, sit down and listen.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Needless to say that if it weren't for you Americans
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: microchips were pretty far along actually
Posted by: channing
» Interesting.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: Interesting (continued)
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Mr. Hoogenboom - Please cite the source for this:
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: leftwright is right Mr. Hoogenboom
Posted by: channing
» Messrs. Channing and LeftWright, proper reply coming. Meantime please watch ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» I'll be glad to buy BOTH of you dinner, should you ever be in Sydney ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: note about"Plane hitting WTC 2" video...
Posted by: channing
» What?! Did I read right?! Two original aircraft were discovered in service?!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: What?! Did I read right?! Two original aircraft were discovered in service?!
Posted by: channing
» Hoogenboom...great last name, btw...
Posted by: snideelf
» Goodness! Thanks, Snideelf!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robchapman on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can anyone question any longer the futility and ineffectiveness of our war in Iraq?
» RE: GWOT now art of terrorism
Posted by: richholland
» RE: GWOT now art of terrorism
Posted by: dennisinmemphis
» RE: GWOT now art of terrorism
Posted by: Turkiye
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Oct 24, 2007 4:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Putting it into this ideological and historical framework would help explain the larger picture, that Napoleon, and the Western democratic revolutions, reflected and pointed to the same failures of the socialist revolutions, democracy, under not just Stalinism, but all subordinated national revolutions, a historical implication that alll democratic revolutiions are doomed to fail so long as the class forces dominate on the international level, and can corrupt democratic and social revolutions, on a national level, and even between national levels.
The struggle of the Cold War should be reframed, reconstructed to the failure, yet dominant crippled social development of class forces on civil society. The generic class deformations on civil society was correctly noted and categorized by the Ancient Greeks in class terms, who invented the words, oligarchy, plutocracy, still used today.
However, Plato, did not realize at the time, that these same generic class forces could degenerate not only his utopian attempt to graft democracy onto existing class patriarchy, but would also deform the middle layers, its intellectuals, political class, subordinated to the oligarchy, hence his failure to succeed with his (class) Republic, which reproduced the gaps between social theory, universal standards, and class degeneration, that ultimately created his "noble lies" and the early development of class ideology.
The link to this early failure thousands of years ago gives us the clue to why all democratic and social revolutions have failed so far, and that the ideological separation between the West and mislabeled "Communist" and national revolutions is false. The generic class corruption of middle layers, subordination to class forces and oligarchy, within the state, mirrors the same failures, of the corruption, economic strangulation, subordination of revolutionary middle layers, who have thrown out their class masters, only to be subordinated by other class states, class empires, external to their national revolutions, between class states, that reproduces these same parallel failures of generic class corruption, so long as class forces dominate on the international level.
This larger historical and ideological view would then place the enemy, class society, class subordination, class ideologies, class elites, and their hierarchies, as always existing, before socialism, before capitalism, as a class mechanism, long term historical class lever in place, for most of our 5000 plus years of patriarchy, the first form of class society, that shifted the social lever, historical lever of egalitarian and matriarchical relations, from its neural position, social center, to its class center, where all class forms are to the right, hence the false designation of the "left", which holds the true social and moral center, on which a fully developed middle class, without class masters, oligarchy was the moral and social basis promoted during the Enlightenment, and after its betrayal by the class liberals, reconstructed in the Post Enlightenment, by the socialist movement and Karl Marx.
Therefore the enemy has always been there the class failure of our civil societies, and the false dichotomy between crippled national revolutions, either Western or Eastern blocks, reveals the deep failure ideologically and historically to understand it.
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: richholland
» Don Barleone
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Don Barleone and Perfectclue reply.
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: MarvinBeaty
» REPLY TO MARVINBEATY:
Posted by: Perfectclue
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hankgeorge on Oct 24, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Hank
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Hank
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» The best website
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: starhelix on Oct 24, 2007 4:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: 9/11 Was An Inside Job, YOU DUMMIES!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: 9/11 Was An Inside Job, YOU DUMMIES!
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» All you have to ask yourself is
Posted by: Ellie1
» monsters have run our government for at least the last century and a half.
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: monsters have run our government for at least the last century and a half...All of the above
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Hey, you could go yell at Bill Maher on his show!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» actually those who disagree tend to be Zionist shills
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Oct 24, 2007 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the very least they knew 9-11 was coming, although they pretended throughout the entire year of 2001 to be utterly incompetent by ignoring every warning by every other country and intelligence agency on the planet.
Inside job? Impossible to be otherwise. Too convenient, and they were too opportunistic in their response for it to be otherwise. Suddenly an inept Administration goes whole hog into very effectively completely controlling the media and selling a useless unwinnable war to a nation that went through Viet Nam?
Leopards don't change their spots. Ever.
People who support them (and they themselves) just can't have it both ways. Either they were utterly incompetent and let it happen via their incompetence, or they planned and implemented it from the word Go.
Either way they are 100% culpable and responsible. And in a world without Diebold they would have been history in 2004 based on their incompetence and malfeasance alone.
And now they think China and Russia will sit idly by as they nuke Iran. They are not only the worst treasonous bastards America was ever cursed with, they're completely out of their minds with desperation and may well end the noble experiment that was the United States of America once and for all.
» RE: The Administration's response to 9-11 had been in planning BEFORE they were installed into offic
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The Administration's response to 9-11 had been in planning BEFORE they were installed into offic
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: The Administration's response to 9-11 had been in planning BEFORE they were installed into offic
Posted by: xbj
» Bush knows perfectly well
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» Leopards don't change their spots --- at least not...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dustdevil on Oct 24, 2007 6:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most readers of Alternet know the Bush administration has never shown any hard evidence that Bin Laden or Al Qaeda was involved. And if they were, it was only as patsies to give cover for the Neocons.
If you wade through all the pseudo-intellectual crap in this article, the only worthwhile paragraph is at the end, where it is suggested that we must do away with the empire.
A much better subject instead of all those wasted words would be a detailed plan of how we should go about dissolving the empire.
» RE: Not necessarily. Al Qaeda is a rogue Poppy Bush CIA operation and has always been
Posted by: xbj
» Your "thinking" doesn't smell so good either
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Your "thinking" doesn't smell so good either
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Your "thinking" doesn't smell so good either
Posted by: hagwind
» Hey, you could go yell at Bill Maher on his show!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» spineless propaganda recepticle
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Bill Maher, the only person who lost his job over 9/11 remarks
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Bill Maher, the only person who lost his job over 9/11 remarks
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Bill Maher How did he get his job back?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» it's called framing the debate
Posted by: gretavo
» Exactly, Dustdevil!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Wish on Oct 24, 2007 6:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too many Americans are too apathetic to do anything, and are more interested in the next American Idol than grand (grotesk) events that change the world (and certainly not for the better). Whining about taxes, while absurd amounts go to the militaristic industry, war profitering criminals like Haliburton, etc. Cheering when propagandistic blahblah blurts phrases again like "America the great", "God bless America", "Freedom", "Democracy", "It is needed for you safety" etc etc etc. While freedom is diminished all the time. All for the illusion of 'safety'. You have so much more to fear from your own government, and your own inhabitants, than from any socalled terrorist.
Authority is not something to take for granted, but as my father always said, authority needs to be questioned. That is one of your duties.
Turn off your bloody tv's, get your heads out of your behinds, and start showing interest in the world around you. Stop being so egotistic and start understanding that this world cán be paradise, by living and working together. That what you do there in the US affects the whole world. You are not alone.
Most of the world happens outside the US.
One of these days the US may be declared bankrupt, the dollar will no longer be the leading international currency (and rightfully so).
And stop being so bloody righteous, especially when it comes to 'god'. How can it be that those who claim the loudest that Jesus is their savior, are those who are the strongest supporters of the most narrowminded, violent, oppressive, backward and conservative idea's?? Jesus was the biggest progressive of all, preaching peace and understanding and harmony. God, if you believe in such an entity or not, created an everchanging world. The socalled 'religious' people keep fighting to never let anything change. That must be why they cannot stand any criticism and have no self-criticism, and always feel 'insulted' by anything and attack anyone who says anything against them: they do not have the guts and courage and responsibility to ever take a,oook at themselves and live in constant fear that they might be living a lie. No, how much easier it is to always accuse other and impose your limited and destructive ways of live onto others.
Change?
It starts with an honest look in the mirror.
» RE: Do you think anything will really change?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: Do you think anything will really change?
Posted by: ad132
» Jesus was a JUST a preacher...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 24, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: And where the hell are those "small government" advocates when you need them the most?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Excuse me but if you even read the history books about these agencies,
Posted by: maxpayne
» A Plan
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: And where the hell are those "small government" advocates when you need them the most?
Posted by: bsdone
» Here I am, but what can I do against this monster state?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Captainmagic on Oct 24, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article does not seem to mention that which always presented us with intrigue but I guess would be outlined in the books he regards and that is of cause the real, total, and only reason this form of devastation was visited upon the poor peoples of Iraq and as we have always known. Cause and effect asked us, "what happens when the behemoth runs out of fuel".....OIL......Answer... It shakes and rattles every door and window until it finds one loose and then it invites itself in and becomes the parasite that it is. A wolf in sheep's clothing maybe, but we never saw the insane wolf....especially one, in a once prestigeous country as America...but there you are...America has fallen...well done for a while, people.
We wait to repair the Hero Iraqi's. We will be there for them.
One word for the Iraqi's ......'UNITE'.....and then it is done.
Captain OUT
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: BUSH SEIZED AN OPPORTUNITY
Posted by: willymack
» Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: BUSH SEIZED AN OPPORTUNITY
Posted by: richholland
» According to Nature - red in tooth and claw; but not HUMAN nature!
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EKSwitaj on Oct 24, 2007 7:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush and his cronies are about as far from autistic as you can get actually. Besides being used in a sense that is largely absent of content and thus an example of poor writing, "autistic" here reinforces the idea that autism is something shameful. This is every bit as unacceptable as racist or sexist language, and it is discriminatory language, so now I'm wondering why articles posted to Alternet don't have to comply with the guidelines for comments.
» RE: Autistic is NOT an Insult
Posted by: richholland
» Agree - the author wouldn't have written "retarded"
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Anti-social - rather than autistic - would be a better choice...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Anti-Social rather than Autistic might have been a better choice..
Posted by: Cathyc
» ANTI-SOCIAL is more accurate than Autistic --
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GANDALF84 on Oct 24, 2007 8:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Exactly! Building 7 is the smoking gun
Posted by: jbur816
» Answer my objection already, will ya?!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» No Plane here either!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: Answer my objection already, will ya?!
Posted by: HSencillo
» I'm glad you said that. So it's steel against steel, right?
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» user "Yellow" admitted that it was demolished because it was so heavily damaged
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 24, 2007 9:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chalmers Johnson tells it the way it is. Our problems wrestling with the mantle of democratic superpower have been with us since the end of WWII. Over that time--as Eisenhower warned--the military/industrial complex has grown larger and more powerful. Our politicians cater to those in corporate boardrooms. The World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the all the other globalistic "think tanks," have made national elections a farce. The parties in power take turns replacing one another, but the overall outlook remains the same.
People like Dennis Kucinich are laughed at when proposing a "Department of Peace." The money instead flows to the Giulianis, the Clintons, the Romneys--whoever will continue to promote the status quo.
No matter who among the major candidates wins the presidency, there will still be a push for a missile system in Europe--not to discourage "terrorism," but because it's good for the defense industry. Until the American public begins to realize what's being done with their tax money, it will be used in ways that are really counter to the national interest.
» Status Quo
Posted by: Cathyc
» "get real" Yourself - You obviously know Zero of the CIA
Posted by: stryder
» RE: Let's get real, Cheney is a Monster
Posted by: gary_7vn
» Democritus - Please explain this to me:
Posted by: LeftWright
Comments are closed-
Posted by: alterstate on Oct 24, 2007 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» not security for Israel--HEGEMONY for Israel
Posted by: gretavo
» So where is this Hegemony, Gretavo? How does it work? You only speculate but there is no proof.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 24, 2007 9:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if the elusive 'smoking gun' were found, what would that prove? We found the smoking gun of the Iraq War, in fact, we found a few: No links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, No WMD, a war of choice that goes against international law, but where are the revelations, impeachments, war crimes tribunals? The media is oddly silent considering the facts. Where is the Democratic controlled congress? They aren't taking steps to remove and prosecute these criminals, they are talking about how they can do it better. They don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the response to 9/11, just the way the response was prosecuted.
So what makes anyone think that, even if they could prove a 9/11 conspiracy, the media or the law won't just refuse to talk about it like they do with the truth about Iraq? It's a waste of time.
As for proportionate response, well, anyone who has seen enough pictures of Iraqi men, women and children with their guts sprayed across the street doesn't have to think to hard about that. There are websites that quote the numbers, I don't need to do it here. 9/11 is trumped up as the ultimate tragedy but I'm willing to bet that more people die needlessly per year in your vicious health care system, or in the back streets of your ghettos than died on that day.
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: Candleinheart
» Yes - the Iraq war would have happened anyway
Posted by: war_on_tara
» SMOKE WHAT??
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» ???
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: ???
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: ???
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» You said it! More people die..
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: jbur816
» "Pointless" is your Defense of an Official 9/11 Conspiracy Fantasy
Posted by: stryder
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: InsertNameHere
» More "pointless" and craven garbage (how ironic)
Posted by: stryder
» RE: mick3
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: mick3
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: mick3
Posted by: jbur816
Comments are closed-
Posted by: monkeywrench on Oct 24, 2007 9:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Despite a slew of carefully researched and insightful books on the subject, the reason why the United States responded to the al Qaeda attack by invading Iraq remains to some extent an enigma."
Enigma?! Earlier in the article it was pointed out that before 9/11 the Bush/neocons were intensely interested in creating an american empire and in securing the third largest oil reserves in the world. There is no enigma in that, no matter what is said by a "can't-see-the-forest-for-the-trees" academic.
As for the 9/11 debacle: beyond the purely physical evidence of the behavior of the buildings when they fell and the molten residue that could only have come from Thermite explosions (aspects of the tragedy that have received far too little exposure – possibly because the laws of physics put the lie to the administration's B.S. story), 9/11 was timed perfectly to initiate a power grab by a feckless president (and his puppet masters) and pave the way for the perpetuation of the military-industrial complex, which stood to see its profits decimated after the fall of the Soviet Union. In this way, 9/11 served exactly the same function as the Burning of the Reichstag by the Nazis in the 1930's. The only question remaining at this point is: Will we allow the same result to play itself out? Judging by the performance of our impotent congress, apparently we will. If so, then america, democracy – and ourselves – are doomed.
» RE: Doomed to repeat history's mistakes?
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Candleinheart on Oct 24, 2007 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: There Is A Way
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: There Is A Way
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11,besides being a great metaphor for everything evil,was in reality a 'tool' to raise American Fighting Spirit. The very thing we did'nt have during Vietnam. But brother we were damn sure going to have it now!! Knowing there was an emminate attack and letting it go down is what makes this administration complicitus in the attack. That's why the response was so shitty. Could 9/11 be stopped? YES!!!!!
The so-called attack is the direct result of the World's worst foriegn policy making. Going back all the lives of those now living,and beyond. 'America the Government' respects no one. Nothing. If you make a gun,they make a cannon. Make a Nuke,we'll make one that can go right up your ass and your's alone. it's a money thing. Every calamity known to man has become a modern financial boom.Drought,famine,disease,war and natural disasters all
make vast amounts of cash,gets rid of some over populating,
and story ops like mad.
We Americans,humanity as a whole really, have the capacity to much greater aspireations. We can create a better life on Earth. We must give up the worship of Gold as God.
The greedy never take care of anything except themselves,they start wars,create strife and advance deprivations all the while making themselves look like a blessing to aspire to.
We are,albiet totally self aware,completely insignificant to the Earth. With the ability to swallow entire costal regions in seconds,we are truly speck on terra firma's windshield.
The hell we've wrought on humanity is nothing compared to what's been done to the Earth. We've 9/11'd the Earth into a poisoned ball in space. Are we to continue on this same path?
Will those who come after us look back kindly on how we've given them a World still dangerous with the will of Tyrants and raped and poisoned the environment for a fist full of dollars? I don't think you want to give this ball of shit over to your Grandchildren any more than I do. But to do that we're going to have to respond stronger,faster and more properly than any 9/11.
Jeffrey7 for Prez
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Turkiye on Oct 24, 2007 11:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Are You Sure You Read The Same Content of Article as I
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Turkiye on Oct 24, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: I Am A Dolt
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: militaryhater on Oct 24, 2007 1:28 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This incident made it easy for Bush and Cheney to start their campaign. All the pilots came from Saudi Arabia...The Bush family is friends with the Bin Laden family. It all adds up to me. The only people that deny it think too much of their government and it is too hard on their conscious to fathom they live in a country that's President could kill like that. Well, he is not phased by the death in the Middle East, so taking down the towers wouldn't phase him either. Besides, his brother's company was in charge of security at the World Trade Center..how convenient...
» RE: Pentagon plane
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Pentagon plane
Posted by: MrAllen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: militaryhater on Oct 24, 2007 1:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Bill and Bush 41 are Best Friends
Posted by: gary_7vn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: arshi on Oct 24, 2007 1:38 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» We would not have had that one except for Bush
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: We would not have had that one except for Bush
Posted by: SheilaKC
» Being "safe"is not the highest priority of a civilized human being
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» You have to remember that Bush, Sr. was once the head of the CIA
Posted by: snideelf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au on Oct 24, 2007 2:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia
» Also see P.O.A.C.'s 14 Points of Fascism at...
Posted by: snideelf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 24, 2007 2:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is, I believe, only one solution to the crisis we face. The American people must make the decision to dismantle both the empire that has been created in their name and the huge, still growing military establishment that undergirds it. It is a task at least comparable to that undertaken by the British government when, after World War II, it liquidated the British Empire.
Anyone know any good readin' on this topic of how the British gov. liquidated the Empire?
What would that look like here in 'Merkuh in the 21st century? I can't imagine how we'd survive such a dissolution by force of will... I can imagine how it'll happen against our will (petrocollapse, climate change, etc.). But I'd like to begin imagining dismantling the U.S. Empire, frankly. That's where we "the Left" need to go now.
» PBS "Frontline" about Iran (& Iraq) last night
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: PBS "Frontline" about Iran (& Iraq) last night
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: PBS "Frontline" about Iran (& Iraq) last night
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: stryder on Oct 24, 2007 3:38 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chalmers’ status quo bunk account points to a more or less corrupt and venal Keystone Cops show from 9/11 to phony “war on terror”. In effect – it’s the old Dumbo defense.
A host of genuine patriots do not agree.
Of course anyone with a clue knows that Washington and the entire mainstream media was onboard and behind the cover-up at 9/11 with its phony “war on terror” aftermath. The fact is, Afghanistan and especially a criminal Iraq War of invasion and conquest were hardly acts of random incompetence or some minor “short-circuiting of normal constitutional procedures”. Even CIA asset Osama “Tim Osman” Bin Laden would no doubt agree the whole thing was a deadly sting – if he were still alive.
As to the vicious farce at 9/11 – even Chalmers Johnson’s fellow CIA veterans have challenged the official 9/11 fairytale.
Examples:
CIA veteran Ray McGovern:
"I think at simplest terms, there's a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke."
CIA and U.S. Marine Corp veteran Robert David Steele:
"I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war. … I have to tell anyone who cares to read this: I believe it. I believe it enough to want a full investigation that passes the smell test of the 9/11 families as well as objective outside observers."
CIA NIO officer William Christison:
“I think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all."
CIA Division Chief Melvin Goodman:
"The final [9/11] report is ultimately a coverup. I don't know how else to describe it."
CIA Mid East Specialist Robert Baer:
"Until we get a complete, honest, transparent investigation …, we will never know what happened on 9/11."
Comments are closed-
Posted by: raywigton on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Brainless "conspiracy theories" are on you to believe the whopper out of DC
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
Comments are closed-
Posted by: snideelf on Oct 24, 2007 5:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is why the chimpy administration sat on their hands because they knew it was coming.
Why else would this administration be the most secretive of all in the history of the U.S.
Obviously they are hiding something.
Plus, the Bush crime family has close ties with the Saudis. That's a clue.
Most of the hijackers were Saudis.
The set up was to use the attacks as an excuse for war and go in and try to claim the Iraq oil fields.
Which I am sure the Saudis were looking to cut a deal with the U.S. and Big Oil over Iraq oil.
War profiteering was the largest motivator.
A chance to make obscene amounts of money off the lives of U.S. and Iraq citizens and American and allied troops.
» RE: There's a real problem with your "let it happen" theory...
Posted by: channing
» Saudi-baiting, "chimpy" reference, explosives="paranoia" - I wonder who YOU work for!
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Oct 24, 2007 6:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"When the Clintonistas, on their way out of the White House, warned them about al Qaeda, they paid next to no attention. "
That's their story. You believe them?
The facts show a different picture. Did Bush "ignore" that warning that "Al Qaeda" was going to hijack a plane and crash it into the Genoa G8 summit in July '01?
No. It wasn't "ignored" Tom. Not at all. Bush was moved from his high rise hotel. AA missiles were installed around the Genoa airport.
No one talked about it, with all the tight security and blackout on certain news stories (ever since). They didn't talk about the "dozens" of warnings from our allies that these attacks were expected well before 9/11, many warnings printed in the open press, though not in the US press. Surprise, surprise.
"Non-state actors were for wusses."
Willful ignorance is despicable. You're coming up with fictional excuses, when you refuse to look at and digest THE FACTS OF 9/11. You've been bombarded with angry communications from thousands upon thousands of people for 6 years, Tom. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
"When the CIA carefully presented the President with a one-page, knock-your-socks-off warning on August 6, 2001 that had the screaming headline, "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.," they ignored it."
Did they? It wasn't one page. The declassified version is longer than that. The original was reported to be 11 pages. This was also one of many other warnings.
The gullibility of these "alternative" commentators strains credulity.
" Bush and his top officials were, as it happened, strangely adrift until September 11, 2001;"
Were they? With war plans for Afghanistan on Bush's desk. This after they threatened the Taliban with a "carpet of gold, or a carpet of bombs,' if they didn't get their oil pipeline.
State Blog
» RE: Tom Englehardt is full of shit on 9/11
Posted by: gary_7vn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Oct 24, 2007 6:47 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You should write fantasy fiction. This demonstrable fairy tale has been the "left" response since the beginning. It does not stand up to scrutiny.
These people wrote of the "catalyzing and catastrophic event, like a New Pearl Harbor." They then took numerous steps to insure that their Pearl Harbor would not only go off -- and not be stopped by FBI and CIA officers who wanted to protect America -- but they thought through the necessary "ACT OF WAR" strike at the Pentagon. This removed the crime from the judicial system and put it under "Global War on Terror TM" white house control.
The Pentagon strike is very fishy indeed, coupled in particular with the MIA 'commander in chief." Treasonously sitting there in Pet Goat land, he "ignored," (THERE'S THAT BOGUS CLAIM AGAIN) the alleged message from Andrew Card: "America is under attack."
This arguably "aided the enemy" and qualifies as high treason under our constitution. If the Commander in Chief had bothered to check in with the Pentagon (in a legitimate way) they would certainly have been put on notice BEFORE THE ATTACK.
Next we have Cheney lying about what he did in the PEOC, and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta basically exposing Cheney's entire story as a fraud, and treasonous. They knew all about the "plane coming into the Pentagon" although the 9/11 Commission Report lies about this fact.
"so they clambered aboard, and like the Cold Warriors they were, went after Saddam."
They went after the second biggest oil reserves on the planet, permanent military bases, and a torching of the UN charter and article 6 of the consitution.
In their own PNAC document they admit that the need to invade Iraq "trascends the regime" of Saddam.
I hate gatekeepers.
They mislead numerous people who would otherwise have a fuller understanding that we are being ruled by treasonous, murderous tyrants who kill American civilians if they feel they must. They'll do it again.
John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xtiml on Oct 25, 2007 2:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xtiml on Oct 25, 2007 2:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» the new tyranny is the old tyranny
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HSencillo on Oct 25, 2007 9:44 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» go to the DailyKos
Posted by: gretavo
» oh yeah, I forgot--NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: counterpoint on Oct 25, 2007 11:25 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's also an argument that makes a conspiracy rather unlikely.
If you were to manufacture or allow an event on such a scale, why attacks in NYC and DC?
Why not something that directly implicates Saddam Hussein in such a way that the international community had given green light for attacks?
Why look like cowards, run around like chicken?
Why expose Giuliani to criticism for sending over 100 firemen to their death because their failing communications gear could not talk to the police (who managed to pull out when police choppers had seen indications for buckling and collapse 8 minutes before it happened)?
Makes no sense.
I blame the conspiracy people for trying to pick imaginary fruit, rather than the low hanging fruit.
They are so easily proven wrong.
It is impossible to rig giant skyscrapers in secret with explosives in a short amount of time.
It is impossible for explosions on such a scale not to show a clear footprint on seismographs (no such tremors were registered on all regional seismographs).
For details download Ryan Mackey's recent refutation of David Ray Griffin: polite, concise, scientific, 200 pages, free.
'On Debunking 9/11 Debunking. Examining Dr. David Ray Griffin’s Latest Criticism of the NIST World Trade Center Investigation
There is no need for a new investigation on this front. I'd much rather see progressive efforts poured into indicting the Bush gang for waging aggressive war, and see them tried at Nuremberg.
» "Incompetence" pretext is as bad a joke as the 9/11 "Commission" itself
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» The bad joke is this gullible conspiracy movement: diverting attention and effort to fantasies
Posted by: counterpoint
» your comment says it all! Guess you never heard of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Posted by: gretavo
» Fantasy Projection at the most "gullible conspiracy movement" of All - (How Sad)
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Counterpoint - Please explain the following:
Posted by: LeftWright
» You explain why there are no tremors with several explosions of that scale - impossible
Posted by: counterpoint
» It is worth noting that you made no effort to answer either question, thus conceding those points.
Posted by: LeftWright
» if curious about demolitions, ask the demolition experts: they say: bunk!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Incompetence post 9/11 indicates this was NOT a 'false flag attack'
Posted by: MrAllen
» 36 hr power down: long debunked
Posted by: counterpoint
» More straw from the new king of straw men, counterpoint
Posted by: LeftWright
» I maintain the misinformation is on your side, just look at your discredited sources
Posted by: counterpoint
» What you apparently help "maintain" is a Fascist status quo farce
Posted by: stryder
» Playing 'intellectual whack-a-mole' again?
Posted by: counterpoint
» More Cartoon Projection: as you play at 'intellectual dishonesty' (again)
Posted by: stryder
» checked your link to questionsquestions- gatekeepers: utter garbage
Posted by: counterpoint
» Dave Frasca
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Incompetence post 9/11 indicates this was NOT a 'false flag attack'
Posted by: MrAllen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DrColes on Oct 27, 2007 1:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Oct 29, 2007 1:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TT20 on Oct 24, 2007 12:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
+9/11 was an inside job!!!
» RE: Theres a point there! - More than a point!
Posted by: Jim
» RE: Theres a point there! - More than a point!
Posted by: Intellect
» 9/11 is THE Central Issue to Our Understanding of Events
Posted by: phollings
» controlled demolition? Impossible, as no concurrent tremors were registered by seismographs
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: seismographs prove free-fall speed, not collapse
Posted by: channing
» the papers you quote are not in a scientific journal & don't count
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE:you didn't address my point, nor my references, did you?
Posted by: channing
» The best link and
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: HEY 9-11 CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
Posted by: pammers
» RE: HEY 9-11 CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: HEY 9-11 CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Conspiracy theorists are just like Bush
Posted by: war_on_tara
» A lot of dumb comments here
Posted by: johndoraemi
» CONSPIRACY FACTS (FOR INBRED MORONS, AND OTHERS)
Posted by: johndoraemi
» RE: Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil... there, life is all better now.
Posted by: channing
» CONSPIRACY "Facts" taken apart one by one: my own list (part1 of 2)
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: CONSPIRACY "Facts" taken apart one by one: my own list (part2 of 2)
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Counter-Propagandizer Inc.
Posted by: channing
» quick responses
Posted by: counterpoint
» I thought you were responding to MY "CONSPIRACY FACTS" RIGHT ABOVE
Posted by: johndoraemi
» "Facts?" = You WERE pretending to respond to me, you shill
Posted by: johndoraemi
» RE: "Facts?" = You WERE pretending to respond to me, you shill
Posted by: counterpoint
» Deceitful tactics (and poor logic) of the "Debunkers"
Posted by: johndoraemi
» your 'tactic': calling me a "maggot"
Posted by: counterpoint
» 1.5 million Iraqis
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Theres a point there!
Posted by: odom79
» RE: Theres a point there!
Posted by: Bibsi
» actually about 2800 killed on 9/11
Posted by: gretavo
» No one proved it was an inside job. That Bush saw it coming and did nothing is a stronger argument.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Actually it IS PROVEN that someone INSIDE was involved
Posted by: channing
» doesn't matter if Bush and Co. ordered it or not.
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: There is a difference between "bush" and "co"
Posted by: channing
» Depends on What you Mean by "Proof"
Posted by: gary_7vn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vox persona on Oct 24, 2007 1:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» wonderfully concise description
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Yep, and I love your posts too, Vox!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: 9/11 was right on schedule
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» The best website
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE THE LIES AND DECEPTION OF 9/11
Posted by: Zeitgeist
» The best summary of the 9/11 truth
Posted by: jbur816
» No, he's not preaching to the choir. AlterNet, like Bill Maher, ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE THE LIES AND DECEPTION OF 9/11
Posted by: Bibsi
» RE: IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE THE LIES AND DECEPTION OF 9/11
Posted by: blitzmesser
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lector on Oct 24, 2007 1:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And following the 59 month period after 9/11, terrorist activity and violence grew by 250 per cent around the world. This was, I’m sure, beyond bin Laden’s nastiest dreams. Bin Laden and Bush needed each other to survive. For OBL Bush’s response was a dynamic for spreading new terrorist activity and for Bush a way to establish his legitimacy as a leader.
Pointless Navigation
» RE: propaganda technics
Posted by: richholland
» WASTE: & CHRISTIAN AMERICA & RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Also the junta’s chance to use Hitler’s 1938 burning of the Reichstag tactic
Posted by: odom79
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Oct 24, 2007 1:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter the cost of accepting reality.
"When I became a man, I put away childish things."
And there is nothing so childish, so absolutely insane, than undeserved unearned blind patriotism perverted into fascist nationalism.
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: jbur816
» Blind patriotism
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Blind patriotism - Cathy, you NAILED it!
Posted by: xbj
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: Bibsi
» RE: By now, anyone that believes that 9-11 just coincidentally happened at the perfect time...
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Oct 24, 2007 2:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Monster!
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Moira61
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Bibsi
» He's a very sick guy but those pulling his strings are truly EVIL --
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: Moira61
» RE: He's a Go* Damn Monster!
Posted by: blitzmesser
Comments are closed-
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Oct 24, 2007 3:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: wonderfully concise description
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» WW3 has already begun - its just a question of how and when it ends
Posted by: Cathyc
» The WWIII thing is neo-con bullshit. There is no reason for this type of hyperbole.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au on Oct 24, 2007 4:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Never mind, we still love you (except for Bush and the Neocons). My wife is American. :-)
Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: tooldoc60
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» I've just given a description of what would have happened if a real plane had hit.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» That's exactly where you're 100% wrong
Posted by: hagwind
» And I'm at least 5.5% wrong
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Goodness, there's that nonsense.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Goodness, there's that fake plane again ...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Disrespectful
Posted by: debjbaba
» NOT Disrespectful!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Grave disrespect
Posted by: Cathyc
» Let's just get it to court, We'll iron it out there.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Let's just get it to court, We'll iron it out there.
Posted by: Lauren
» Go to Court? Where is the JUSTICE in America?
Posted by: Cathyc
» Is Hoogenboom Even a Real Human Name?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: Is Hoogenboom Even a Real Human Name?
Posted by: badkitty
» Did you read what I said? A real plane would have smashed against the wall.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Is Hoogenboom Impervious to Sarcasm?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» That is not a video of a plane hitting a WTC tower.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Have you ever seen a network studio?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» Mr. Hoogenboom - Sir, with respect
Posted by: LeftWright
» Hi, LeftWright! I'll keep an open mind. And I am not saying NOTHING hit the buildings ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» I would humbly request that you remain neutral on this subject,
Posted by: LeftWright
» Empire State Building Impact - No Plane!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» a guide to the perplexed... "fake planes at the WTC" talk is deliberately nonsensical
Posted by: gretavo
» RE: a guide to the perplexed... "fake planes at the WTC" talk is deliberately nonsensical
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: a guide to the perplexed... "fake planes at the WTC" talk is deliberately nonsensical
Posted by: channing
» Intersting thought, Russian satellite records!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» While there is ample evidence that the networks
Posted by: LeftWright
» OK, tonight when I get home from work I'll put together links to analyses I find compelling.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Look at this video. To think this is a real plane hitting is absurd.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Mr. Hoogenboom - you keep repeating a basic fallacy which completely undercuts your thesis
Posted by: LeftWright
» Good Try LeftWright!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: Great effort LeftWright, gary_7vn and hoogenboom!
Posted by: channing
» Absolutely right, Channing
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» You are correct, Higgenboom is not the enemy!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: You are correct, Higgenboom is not the enemy!
Posted by: channing
» RE: CORRECTION: Question 3: poorly phrased... Plus
Posted by: channing
» Why don't you wipe the foam off your mouth, calm down, sit down and listen.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Needless to say that if it weren't for you Americans
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: microchips were pretty far along actually
Posted by: channing
» Interesting.
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: Interesting (continued)
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» Mr. Hoogenboom - Please cite the source for this:
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: leftwright is right Mr. Hoogenboom
Posted by: channing
» Messrs. Channing and LeftWright, proper reply coming. Meantime please watch ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» I'll be glad to buy BOTH of you dinner, should you ever be in Sydney ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: note about"Plane hitting WTC 2" video...
Posted by: channing
» What?! Did I read right?! Two original aircraft were discovered in service?!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: What?! Did I read right?! Two original aircraft were discovered in service?!
Posted by: channing
» Hoogenboom...great last name, btw...
Posted by: snideelf
» Goodness! Thanks, Snideelf!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robchapman on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can anyone question any longer the futility and ineffectiveness of our war in Iraq?
» RE: GWOT now art of terrorism
Posted by: richholland
» RE: GWOT now art of terrorism
Posted by: dennisinmemphis
» RE: GWOT now art of terrorism
Posted by: Turkiye
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Oct 24, 2007 4:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Putting it into this ideological and historical framework would help explain the larger picture, that Napoleon, and the Western democratic revolutions, reflected and pointed to the same failures of the socialist revolutions, democracy, under not just Stalinism, but all subordinated national revolutions, a historical implication that alll democratic revolutiions are doomed to fail so long as the class forces dominate on the international level, and can corrupt democratic and social revolutions, on a national level, and even between national levels.
The struggle of the Cold War should be reframed, reconstructed to the failure, yet dominant crippled social development of class forces on civil society. The generic class deformations on civil society was correctly noted and categorized by the Ancient Greeks in class terms, who invented the words, oligarchy, plutocracy, still used today.
However, Plato, did not realize at the time, that these same generic class forces could degenerate not only his utopian attempt to graft democracy onto existing class patriarchy, but would also deform the middle layers, its intellectuals, political class, subordinated to the oligarchy, hence his failure to succeed with his (class) Republic, which reproduced the gaps between social theory, universal standards, and class degeneration, that ultimately created his "noble lies" and the early development of class ideology.
The link to this early failure thousands of years ago gives us the clue to why all democratic and social revolutions have failed so far, and that the ideological separation between the West and mislabeled "Communist" and national revolutions is false. The generic class corruption of middle layers, subordination to class forces and oligarchy, within the state, mirrors the same failures, of the corruption, economic strangulation, subordination of revolutionary middle layers, who have thrown out their class masters, only to be subordinated by other class states, class empires, external to their national revolutions, between class states, that reproduces these same parallel failures of generic class corruption, so long as class forces dominate on the international level.
This larger historical and ideological view would then place the enemy, class society, class subordination, class ideologies, class elites, and their hierarchies, as always existing, before socialism, before capitalism, as a class mechanism, long term historical class lever in place, for most of our 5000 plus years of patriarchy, the first form of class society, that shifted the social lever, historical lever of egalitarian and matriarchical relations, from its neural position, social center, to its class center, where all class forms are to the right, hence the false designation of the "left", which holds the true social and moral center, on which a fully developed middle class, without class masters, oligarchy was the moral and social basis promoted during the Enlightenment, and after its betrayal by the class liberals, reconstructed in the Post Enlightenment, by the socialist movement and Karl Marx.
Therefore the enemy has always been there the class failure of our civil societies, and the false dichotomy between crippled national revolutions, either Western or Eastern blocks, reveals the deep failure ideologically and historically to understand it.
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: richholland
» Don Barleone
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Don Barleone and Perfectclue reply.
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: The enemy was always there: Before, during and after the cold war
Posted by: MarvinBeaty
» REPLY TO MARVINBEATY:
Posted by: Perfectclue
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hankgeorge on Oct 24, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Hank
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Hank
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» The best website
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: starhelix on Oct 24, 2007 4:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: 9/11 Was An Inside Job, YOU DUMMIES!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: 9/11 Was An Inside Job, YOU DUMMIES!
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» All you have to ask yourself is
Posted by: Ellie1
» monsters have run our government for at least the last century and a half.
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: monsters have run our government for at least the last century and a half...All of the above
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Hey, you could go yell at Bill Maher on his show!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» actually those who disagree tend to be Zionist shills
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Oct 24, 2007 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the very least they knew 9-11 was coming, although they pretended throughout the entire year of 2001 to be utterly incompetent by ignoring every warning by every other country and intelligence agency on the planet.
Inside job? Impossible to be otherwise. Too convenient, and they were too opportunistic in their response for it to be otherwise. Suddenly an inept Administration goes whole hog into very effectively completely controlling the media and selling a useless unwinnable war to a nation that went through Viet Nam?
Leopards don't change their spots. Ever.
People who support them (and they themselves) just can't have it both ways. Either they were utterly incompetent and let it happen via their incompetence, or they planned and implemented it from the word Go.
Either way they are 100% culpable and responsible. And in a world without Diebold they would have been history in 2004 based on their incompetence and malfeasance alone.
And now they think China and Russia will sit idly by as they nuke Iran. They are not only the worst treasonous bastards America was ever cursed with, they're completely out of their minds with desperation and may well end the noble experiment that was the United States of America once and for all.
» RE: The Administration's response to 9-11 had been in planning BEFORE they were installed into offic
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The Administration's response to 9-11 had been in planning BEFORE they were installed into offic
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: The Administration's response to 9-11 had been in planning BEFORE they were installed into offic
Posted by: xbj
» Bush knows perfectly well
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» Leopards don't change their spots --- at least not...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dustdevil on Oct 24, 2007 6:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most readers of Alternet know the Bush administration has never shown any hard evidence that Bin Laden or Al Qaeda was involved. And if they were, it was only as patsies to give cover for the Neocons.
If you wade through all the pseudo-intellectual crap in this article, the only worthwhile paragraph is at the end, where it is suggested that we must do away with the empire.
A much better subject instead of all those wasted words would be a detailed plan of how we should go about dissolving the empire.
» RE: Not necessarily. Al Qaeda is a rogue Poppy Bush CIA operation and has always been
Posted by: xbj
» Your "thinking" doesn't smell so good either
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Your "thinking" doesn't smell so good either
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Your "thinking" doesn't smell so good either
Posted by: hagwind
» Hey, you could go yell at Bill Maher on his show!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» spineless propaganda recepticle
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Bill Maher, the only person who lost his job over 9/11 remarks
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Bill Maher, the only person who lost his job over 9/11 remarks
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Bill Maher How did he get his job back?
Posted by: gary_7vn
» it's called framing the debate
Posted by: gretavo
» Exactly, Dustdevil!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Wish on Oct 24, 2007 6:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too many Americans are too apathetic to do anything, and are more interested in the next American Idol than grand (grotesk) events that change the world (and certainly not for the better). Whining about taxes, while absurd amounts go to the militaristic industry, war profitering criminals like Haliburton, etc. Cheering when propagandistic blahblah blurts phrases again like "America the great", "God bless America", "Freedom", "Democracy", "It is needed for you safety" etc etc etc. While freedom is diminished all the time. All for the illusion of 'safety'. You have so much more to fear from your own government, and your own inhabitants, than from any socalled terrorist.
Authority is not something to take for granted, but as my father always said, authority needs to be questioned. That is one of your duties.
Turn off your bloody tv's, get your heads out of your behinds, and start showing interest in the world around you. Stop being so egotistic and start understanding that this world cán be paradise, by living and working together. That what you do there in the US affects the whole world. You are not alone.
Most of the world happens outside the US.
One of these days the US may be declared bankrupt, the dollar will no longer be the leading international currency (and rightfully so).
And stop being so bloody righteous, especially when it comes to 'god'. How can it be that those who claim the loudest that Jesus is their savior, are those who are the strongest supporters of the most narrowminded, violent, oppressive, backward and conservative idea's?? Jesus was the biggest progressive of all, preaching peace and understanding and harmony. God, if you believe in such an entity or not, created an everchanging world. The socalled 'religious' people keep fighting to never let anything change. That must be why they cannot stand any criticism and have no self-criticism, and always feel 'insulted' by anything and attack anyone who says anything against them: they do not have the guts and courage and responsibility to ever take a,oook at themselves and live in constant fear that they might be living a lie. No, how much easier it is to always accuse other and impose your limited and destructive ways of live onto others.
Change?
It starts with an honest look in the mirror.
» RE: Do you think anything will really change?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: Do you think anything will really change?
Posted by: ad132
» Jesus was a JUST a preacher...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 24, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: And where the hell are those "small government" advocates when you need them the most?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Excuse me but if you even read the history books about these agencies,
Posted by: maxpayne
» A Plan
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: And where the hell are those "small government" advocates when you need them the most?
Posted by: bsdone
» Here I am, but what can I do against this monster state?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Captainmagic on Oct 24, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article does not seem to mention that which always presented us with intrigue but I guess would be outlined in the books he regards and that is of cause the real, total, and only reason this form of devastation was visited upon the poor peoples of Iraq and as we have always known. Cause and effect asked us, "what happens when the behemoth runs out of fuel".....OIL......Answer... It shakes and rattles every door and window until it finds one loose and then it invites itself in and becomes the parasite that it is. A wolf in sheep's clothing maybe, but we never saw the insane wolf....especially one, in a once prestigeous country as America...but there you are...America has fallen...well done for a while, people.
We wait to repair the Hero Iraqi's. We will be there for them.
One word for the Iraqi's ......'UNITE'.....and then it is done.
Captain OUT
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: BUSH SEIZED AN OPPORTUNITY
Posted by: willymack
» Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: BUSH SEIZED AN OPPORTUNITY
Posted by: richholland
» According to Nature - red in tooth and claw; but not HUMAN nature!
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EKSwitaj on Oct 24, 2007 7:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush and his cronies are about as far from autistic as you can get actually. Besides being used in a sense that is largely absent of content and thus an example of poor writing, "autistic" here reinforces the idea that autism is something shameful. This is every bit as unacceptable as racist or sexist language, and it is discriminatory language, so now I'm wondering why articles posted to Alternet don't have to comply with the guidelines for comments.
» RE: Autistic is NOT an Insult
Posted by: richholland
» Agree - the author wouldn't have written "retarded"
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Anti-social - rather than autistic - would be a better choice...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Anti-Social rather than Autistic might have been a better choice..
Posted by: Cathyc
» ANTI-SOCIAL is more accurate than Autistic --
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GANDALF84 on Oct 24, 2007 8:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Exactly! Building 7 is the smoking gun
Posted by: jbur816
» Answer my objection already, will ya?!
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» No Plane here either!
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: Answer my objection already, will ya?!
Posted by: HSencillo
» I'm glad you said that. So it's steel against steel, right?
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» user "Yellow" admitted that it was demolished because it was so heavily damaged
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 24, 2007 9:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chalmers Johnson tells it the way it is. Our problems wrestling with the mantle of democratic superpower have been with us since the end of WWII. Over that time--as Eisenhower warned--the military/industrial complex has grown larger and more powerful. Our politicians cater to those in corporate boardrooms. The World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the all the other globalistic "think tanks," have made national elections a farce. The parties in power take turns replacing one another, but the overall outlook remains the same.
People like Dennis Kucinich are laughed at when proposing a "Department of Peace." The money instead flows to the Giulianis, the Clintons, the Romneys--whoever will continue to promote the status quo.
No matter who among the major candidates wins the presidency, there will still be a push for a missile system in Europe--not to discourage "terrorism," but because it's good for the defense industry. Until the American public begins to realize what's being done with their tax money, it will be used in ways that are really counter to the national interest.
» Status Quo
Posted by: Cathyc
» "get real" Yourself - You obviously know Zero of the CIA
Posted by: stryder
» RE: Let's get real, Cheney is a Monster
Posted by: gary_7vn
» Democritus - Please explain this to me:
Posted by: LeftWright
Comments are closed-
Posted by: alterstate on Oct 24, 2007 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» not security for Israel--HEGEMONY for Israel
Posted by: gretavo
» So where is this Hegemony, Gretavo? How does it work? You only speculate but there is no proof.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 24, 2007 9:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if the elusive 'smoking gun' were found, what would that prove? We found the smoking gun of the Iraq War, in fact, we found a few: No links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, No WMD, a war of choice that goes against international law, but where are the revelations, impeachments, war crimes tribunals? The media is oddly silent considering the facts. Where is the Democratic controlled congress? They aren't taking steps to remove and prosecute these criminals, they are talking about how they can do it better. They don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the response to 9/11, just the way the response was prosecuted.
So what makes anyone think that, even if they could prove a 9/11 conspiracy, the media or the law won't just refuse to talk about it like they do with the truth about Iraq? It's a waste of time.
As for proportionate response, well, anyone who has seen enough pictures of Iraqi men, women and children with their guts sprayed across the street doesn't have to think to hard about that. There are websites that quote the numbers, I don't need to do it here. 9/11 is trumped up as the ultimate tragedy but I'm willing to bet that more people die needlessly per year in your vicious health care system, or in the back streets of your ghettos than died on that day.
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: Candleinheart
» Yes - the Iraq war would have happened anyway
Posted by: war_on_tara
» SMOKE WHAT??
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» ???
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: ???
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: ???
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» You said it! More people die..
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: jbur816
» "Pointless" is your Defense of an Official 9/11 Conspiracy Fantasy
Posted by: stryder
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: gary_7vn
» RE: 9/11 Conspiracy Talk Is Pointless
Posted by: InsertNameHere
» More "pointless" and craven garbage (how ironic)
Posted by: stryder
» RE: mick3
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: mick3
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: mick3
Posted by: jbur816
Comments are closed-
Posted by: monkeywrench on Oct 24, 2007 9:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Despite a slew of carefully researched and insightful books on the subject, the reason why the United States responded to the al Qaeda attack by invading Iraq remains to some extent an enigma."
Enigma?! Earlier in the article it was pointed out that before 9/11 the Bush/neocons were intensely interested in creating an american empire and in securing the third largest oil reserves in the world. There is no enigma in that, no matter what is said by a "can't-see-the-forest-for-the-trees" academic.
As for the 9/11 debacle: beyond the purely physical evidence of the behavior of the buildings when they fell and the molten residue that could only have come from Thermite explosions (aspects of the tragedy that have received far too little exposure – possibly because the laws of physics put the lie to the administration's B.S. story), 9/11 was timed perfectly to initiate a power grab by a feckless president (and his puppet masters) and pave the way for the perpetuation of the military-industrial complex, which stood to see its profits decimated after the fall of the Soviet Union. In this way, 9/11 served exactly the same function as the Burning of the Reichstag by the Nazis in the 1930's. The only question remaining at this point is: Will we allow the same result to play itself out? Judging by the performance of our impotent congress, apparently we will. If so, then america, democracy – and ourselves – are doomed.
» RE: Doomed to repeat history's mistakes?
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Candleinheart on Oct 24, 2007 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: There Is A Way
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: There Is A Way
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11,besides being a great metaphor for everything evil,was in reality a 'tool' to raise American Fighting Spirit. The very thing we did'nt have during Vietnam. But brother we were damn sure going to have it now!! Knowing there was an emminate attack and letting it go down is what makes this administration complicitus in the attack. That's why the response was so shitty. Could 9/11 be stopped? YES!!!!!
The so-called attack is the direct result of the World's worst foriegn policy making. Going back all the lives of those now living,and beyond. 'America the Government' respects no one. Nothing. If you make a gun,they make a cannon. Make a Nuke,we'll make one that can go right up your ass and your's alone. it's a money thing. Every calamity known to man has become a modern financial boom.Drought,famine,disease,war and natural disasters all
make vast amounts of cash,gets rid of some over populating,
and story ops like mad.
We Americans,humanity as a whole really, have the capacity to much greater aspireations. We can create a better life on Earth. We must give up the worship of Gold as God.
The greedy never take care of anything except themselves,they start wars,create strife and advance deprivations all the while making themselves look like a blessing to aspire to.
We are,albiet totally self aware,completely insignificant to the Earth. With the ability to swallow entire costal regions in seconds,we are truly speck on terra firma's windshield.
The hell we've wrought on humanity is nothing compared to what's been done to the Earth. We've 9/11'd the Earth into a poisoned ball in space. Are we to continue on this same path?
Will those who come after us look back kindly on how we've given them a World still dangerous with the will of Tyrants and raped and poisoned the environment for a fist full of dollars? I don't think you want to give this ball of shit over to your Grandchildren any more than I do. But to do that we're going to have to respond stronger,faster and more properly than any 9/11.
Jeffrey7 for Prez
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Turkiye on Oct 24, 2007 11:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Are You Sure You Read The Same Content of Article as I
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Turkiye on Oct 24, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: I Am A Dolt
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Comments are closed-
Posted by: militaryhater on Oct 24, 2007 1:28 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This incident made it easy for Bush and Cheney to start their campaign. All the pilots came from Saudi Arabia...The Bush family is friends with the Bin Laden family. It all adds up to me. The only people that deny it think too much of their government and it is too hard on their conscious to fathom they live in a country that's President could kill like that. Well, he is not phased by the death in the Middle East, so taking down the towers wouldn't phase him either. Besides, his brother's company was in charge of security at the World Trade Center..how convenient...
» RE: Pentagon plane
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Pentagon plane
Posted by: MrAllen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: militaryhater on Oct 24, 2007 1:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Bill and Bush 41 are Best Friends
Posted by: gary_7vn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: arshi on Oct 24, 2007 1:38 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» We would not have had that one except for Bush
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: We would not have had that one except for Bush
Posted by: SheilaKC
» Being "safe"is not the highest priority of a civilized human being
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» You have to remember that Bush, Sr. was once the head of the CIA
Posted by: snideelf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au on Oct 24, 2007 2:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia
» Also see P.O.A.C.'s 14 Points of Fascism at...
Posted by: snideelf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 24, 2007 2:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is, I believe, only one solution to the crisis we face. The American people must make the decision to dismantle both the empire that has been created in their name and the huge, still growing military establishment that undergirds it. It is a task at least comparable to that undertaken by the British government when, after World War II, it liquidated the British Empire.
Anyone know any good readin' on this topic of how the British gov. liquidated the Empire?
What would that look like here in 'Merkuh in the 21st century? I can't imagine how we'd survive such a dissolution by force of will... I can imagine how it'll happen against our will (petrocollapse, climate change, etc.). But I'd like to begin imagining dismantling the U.S. Empire, frankly. That's where we "the Left" need to go now.
» PBS "Frontline" about Iran (& Iraq) last night
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: PBS "Frontline" about Iran (& Iraq) last night
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: PBS "Frontline" about Iran (& Iraq) last night
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: stryder on Oct 24, 2007 3:38 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chalmers’ status quo bunk account points to a more or less corrupt and venal Keystone Cops show from 9/11 to phony “war on terror”. In effect – it’s the old Dumbo defense.
A host of genuine patriots do not agree.
Of course anyone with a clue knows that Washington and the entire mainstream media was onboard and behind the cover-up at 9/11 with its phony “war on terror” aftermath. The fact is, Afghanistan and especially a criminal Iraq War of invasion and conquest were hardly acts of random incompetence or some minor “short-circuiting of normal constitutional procedures”. Even CIA asset Osama “Tim Osman” Bin Laden would no doubt agree the whole thing was a deadly sting – if he were still alive.
As to the vicious farce at 9/11 – even Chalmers Johnson’s fellow CIA veterans have challenged the official 9/11 fairytale.
Examples:
CIA veteran Ray McGovern:
"I think at simplest terms, there's a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke."
CIA and U.S. Marine Corp veteran Robert David Steele:
"I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war. … I have to tell anyone who cares to read this: I believe it. I believe it enough to want a full investigation that passes the smell test of the 9/11 families as well as objective outside observers."
CIA NIO officer William Christison:
“I think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all."
CIA Division Chief Melvin Goodman:
"The final [9/11] report is ultimately a coverup. I don't know how else to describe it."
CIA Mid East Specialist Robert Baer:
"Until we get a complete, honest, transparent investigation …, we will never know what happened on 9/11."
Comments are closed-
Posted by: raywigton on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Brainless "conspiracy theories" are on you to believe the whopper out of DC
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
Comments are closed-
Posted by: snideelf on Oct 24, 2007 5:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is why the chimpy administration sat on their hands because they knew it was coming.
Why else would this administration be the most secretive of all in the history of the U.S.
Obviously they are hiding something.
Plus, the Bush crime family has close ties with the Saudis. That's a clue.
Most of the hijackers were Saudis.
The set up was to use the attacks as an excuse for war and go in and try to claim the Iraq oil fields.
Which I am sure the Saudis were looking to cut a deal with the U.S. and Big Oil over Iraq oil.
War profiteering was the largest motivator.
A chance to make obscene amounts of money off the lives of U.S. and Iraq citizens and American and allied troops.
» RE: There's a real problem with your "let it happen" theory...
Posted by: channing
» Saudi-baiting, "chimpy" reference, explosives="paranoia" - I wonder who YOU work for!
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Oct 24, 2007 6:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"When the Clintonistas, on their way out of the White House, warned them about al Qaeda, they paid next to no attention. "
That's their story. You believe them?
The facts show a different picture. Did Bush "ignore" that warning that "Al Qaeda" was going to hijack a plane and crash it into the Genoa G8 summit in July '01?
No. It wasn't "ignored" Tom. Not at all. Bush was moved from his high rise hotel. AA missiles were installed around the Genoa airport.
No one talked about it, with all the tight security and blackout on certain news stories (ever since). They didn't talk about the "dozens" of warnings from our allies that these attacks were expected well before 9/11, many warnings printed in the open press, though not in the US press. Surprise, surprise.
"Non-state actors were for wusses."
Willful ignorance is despicable. You're coming up with fictional excuses, when you refuse to look at and digest THE FACTS OF 9/11. You've been bombarded with angry communications from thousands upon thousands of people for 6 years, Tom. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
"When the CIA carefully presented the President with a one-page, knock-your-socks-off warning on August 6, 2001 that had the screaming headline, "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.," they ignored it."
Did they? It wasn't one page. The declassified version is longer than that. The original was reported to be 11 pages. This was also one of many other warnings.
The gullibility of these "alternative" commentators strains credulity.
" Bush and his top officials were, as it happened, strangely adrift until September 11, 2001;"
Were they? With war plans for Afghanistan on Bush's desk. This after they threatened the Taliban with a "carpet of gold, or a carpet of bombs,' if they didn't get their oil pipeline.
State Blog
» RE: Tom Englehardt is full of shit on 9/11
Posted by: gary_7vn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Oct 24, 2007 6:47 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You should write fantasy fiction. This demonstrable fairy tale has been the "left" response since the beginning. It does not stand up to scrutiny.
These people wrote of the "catalyzing and catastrophic event, like a New Pearl Harbor." They then took numerous steps to insure that their Pearl Harbor would not only go off -- and not be stopped by FBI and CIA officers who wanted to protect America -- but they thought through the necessary "ACT OF WAR" strike at the Pentagon. This removed the crime from the judicial system and put it under "Global War on Terror TM" white house control.
The Pentagon strike is very fishy indeed, coupled in particular with the MIA 'commander in chief." Treasonously sitting there in Pet Goat land, he "ignored," (THERE'S THAT BOGUS CLAIM AGAIN) the alleged message from Andrew Card: "America is under attack."
This arguably "aided the enemy" and qualifies as high treason under our constitution. If the Commander in Chief had bothered to check in with the Pentagon (in a legitimate way) they would certainly have been put on notice BEFORE THE ATTACK.
Next we have Cheney lying about what he did in the PEOC, and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta basically exposing Cheney's entire story as a fraud, and treasonous. They knew all about the "plane coming into the Pentagon" although the 9/11 Commission Report lies about this fact.
"so they clambered aboard, and like the Cold Warriors they were, went after Saddam."
They went after the second biggest oil reserves on the planet, permanent military bases, and a torching of the UN charter and article 6 of the consitution.
In their own PNAC document they admit that the need to invade Iraq "trascends the regime" of Saddam.
I hate gatekeepers.
They mislead numerous people who would otherwise have a fuller understanding that we are being ruled by treasonous, murderous tyrants who kill American civilians if they feel they must. They'll do it again.
John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xtiml on Oct 25, 2007 2:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xtiml on Oct 25, 2007 2:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» the new tyranny is the old tyranny
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HSencillo on Oct 25, 2007 9:44 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» go to the DailyKos
Posted by: gretavo
» oh yeah, I forgot--NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!
Posted by: gretavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: counterpoint on Oct 25, 2007 11:25 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's also an argument that makes a conspiracy rather unlikely.
If you were to manufacture or allow an event on such a scale, why attacks in NYC and DC?
Why not something that directly implicates Saddam Hussein in such a way that the international community had given green light for attacks?
Why look like cowards, run around like chicken?
Why expose Giuliani to criticism for sending over 100 firemen to their death because their failing communications gear could not talk to the police (who managed to pull out when police choppers had seen indications for buckling and collapse 8 minutes before it happened)?
Makes no sense.
I blame the conspiracy people for trying to pick imaginary fruit, rather than the low hanging fruit.
They are so easily proven wrong.
It is impossible to rig giant skyscrapers in secret with explosives in a short amount of time.
It is impossible for explosions on such a scale not to show a clear footprint on seismographs (no such tremors were registered on all regional seismographs).
For details download Ryan Mackey's recent refutation of David Ray Griffin: polite, concise, scientific, 200 pages, free.
'On Debunking 9/11 Debunking. Examining Dr. David Ray Griffin’s Latest Criticism of the NIST World Trade Center Investigation
There is no need for a new investigation on this front. I'd much rather see progressive efforts poured into indicting the Bush gang for waging aggressive war, and see them tried at Nuremberg.
» "Incompetence" pretext is as bad a joke as the 9/11 "Commission" itself
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» The bad joke is this gullible conspiracy movement: diverting attention and effort to fantasies
Posted by: counterpoint
» your comment says it all! Guess you never heard of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Posted by: gretavo
» Fantasy Projection at the most "gullible conspiracy movement" of All - (How Sad)
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Counterpoint - Please explain the following:
Posted by: LeftWright
» You explain why there are no tremors with several explosions of that scale - impossible
Posted by: counterpoint
» It is worth noting that you made no effort to answer either question, thus conceding those points.
Posted by: LeftWright
» if curious about demolitions, ask the demolition experts: they say: bunk!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Incompetence post 9/11 indicates this was NOT a 'false flag attack'
Posted by: MrAllen
» 36 hr power down: long debunked
Posted by: counterpoint
» More straw from the new king of straw men, counterpoint
Posted by: LeftWright
» I maintain the misinformation is on your side, just look at your discredited sources
Posted by: counterpoint
» What you apparently help "maintain" is a Fascist status quo farce
Posted by: stryder
» Playing 'intellectual whack-a-mole' again?
Posted by: counterpoint
» More Cartoon Projection: as you play at 'intellectual dishonesty' (again)
Posted by: stryder
» checked your link to questionsquestions- gatekeepers: utter garbage
Posted by: counterpoint
» Dave Frasca
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Incompetence post 9/11 indicates this was NOT a 'false flag attack'
Posted by: MrAllen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DrColes on Oct 27, 2007 1:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Oct 29, 2007 1:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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