Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Building God's (Christian) Army

By Jane Lampman, Christian Science Monitor. Posted October 19, 2007.


Are U.S. troops being force-fed Christianity? A watchdog group thinks so.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

At Speicher base in Iraq, U.S. Army Spec. Jeremy Hall got permission from a chaplain in August to post fliers announcing a meeting for atheists and other nonbelievers. When the group gathered, Specialist Hall alleges, his Army major supervisor disrupted the meeting and threatened to retaliate against him, including blocking his reenlistment in the Army.

Months earlier, Hall charges, he had been publicly berated by a staff sergeant for not agreeing to join in a Thanksgiving Day prayer.

On Sept. 17, the soldier and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) filed suit against Army Maj. Freddy Welborn and US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, charging violations of Hall's constitutional rights, including being forced to submit to a religious test to qualify as a soldier.

The MRFF plans more lawsuits in coming weeks, says Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, who founded the military watchdog group in 2005. The aim is "to show there is a pattern and practice of constitutionally impermissible promotions of religious beliefs within the Department of Defense."

For Mr. Weinstein -- a former Air Force judge advocate and assistant counsel in the Reagan White House -- more is involved than isolated cases of discrimination. He charges that several incidents in recent years -- and more than 5,000 complaints his group has received from active-duty and retired military personnel -- point to a growing willingness inside the military to support a particular brand of Christianity and to permit improper evangelizing in the ranks. More than 95 percent of those complaints come from other Christians, he says.

Others agree on the need for the watchdog group, but question the conspiratorial view and some of its tactics. They say dealing with religious issues is a complex matter, and the military is trying to address them appropriately.

At the Defense Department, spokeswoman Cynthia Smith says the DOD doesn't comment on litigation, but "places a high value on the rights of members of the Armed Forces to observe the tenets of their respective religions."

Since the Revolutionary War, the armed services have tried to ensure that soldiers can practice their faiths, and that chaplains serve not only those of their own sect but all who may need pastoral care. The services have also sought to adhere to the First Amendment prohibition of any government "establishment of religion."

In the 1990s, for instance, the Air Force's Little Blue Book of core values highlighted religious tolerance, emphasizing that military professionals "must not take it upon themselves to change or coercively influence the religious views of subordinates."

Weinstein insists, however, that there are improper actions at high levels that not only infringe on soldiers' rights but, at a very dangerous time, also send the wrong message to people in the Middle East that those in the US military see themselves engaged in Christian warfare.

For example, he says, Lt. Gen. William Boykin, who gave speeches at churches while in uniform that disparaged Islam and defined the war on terror in fundamentalist, "end times" terms, was not fired but promoted. (Speaking of a Muslim warlord he had pursued, Lt. Gen. Boykin said, "I knew my God was a real God and his was an idol." And our enemies "will only be defeated if we come against them in the name of Jesus.")

"There's an eschatologically obsessed version of Christianity that ... is trying to make American foreign and domestic policy conterminous with their biblical worldview," Weinstein charges. And "there's improper pressure within the military command structure to make members join them."

The most serious allegations from the field cannot be corroborated for this article. A few will be raised in the lawsuits, but some incidents have been documented.

Perhaps the most visible situation -- and the one that set Weinstein off on his mission -- involved the evangelizing of cadets on the part of some faculty and staff at the Air Force Academy (AFA) in Colorado Springs, Colo., which came to light in 2004. Congress held hearings, DOD conducted an investigation, and the head of the academy acknowledged significant problems. Weinstein's cadet son experienced the pressures as a Jew.

Col. David Antoon (ret.), another alumnus of the AFA and now a 747 commercial pilot, says his heart was broken when he took his son, Ryan, to an orientation at the academy in the spring of 2004. An overt evangelistic approach during part of the orientation so upset them, he says, that they decided his son would reject the treasured appointment and instead go to Ohio State University.

"My son had dreamed of doing what I had done, but it was no longer the institution I went to," Colonel Antoon says, his voice cracking with emotion.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: christian, religion, army, first amendment, chaplain, constitutional rights, u.s. armed forces, evangelize

Jane Lampman is a staff writer at the Christian Science Monitor.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from World! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
The fundies are in charge now
Posted by: vox persona on Oct 19, 2007 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we can survive this administration, maybe we can get back to a semblance of sanity. This kind of thing trickles from the top down. Maybe things like this would happen in any administration, but I really think this fundamentalist in charge gives this sort of thing his 'blessing'. W probably thinks this Earth is 6000 years old, isn't that reassuring? Our military can be filed under the heading 'state'; so much for the separation between church and state. May Dog help us all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic
Maybe you should ask troops
Posted by: Gentrification Through Natural Selection on Oct 19, 2007 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I spent 15 months in Iraq. At no time did I ever spend one minute inside of one of the sky god’s churchs. Most troops (I’m am taking about army) do not attend services regularly.

Yes, most recruits are trailer/ghetto/barrio/ trash. Although troops have a lack of brain power, often seen in the lower classes, religion was not the prevailing attitude among the rifle jockeys.

Then 1LT L.-Now CPT L. US Army

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Maybe you should ask troops Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Maybe you should ask troops Posted by: Gentrification Through Natural Selection
» Why don't you ask him... Posted by: sausage
» RE: Maybe you should ask troops Posted by: leafsong1
» The target is officers, not troops Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Maybe you should resign your commission! Posted by: Gentrification Through Natural Selection
» I'll be glad to pass this on Posted by: worldwide65
» RE: Maybe you should ask troops Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
Childhood of Man continues
Posted by: Lector on Oct 19, 2007 12:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I knew my God was a real God and his was an idol." Lt. Gen. Boykin

This is one of the essential problems of all religions. My god can beat up your god.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Childhood of Man continues Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: Childhood of Man continues Posted by: werewolf
Show me proof
Posted by: worldwide65 on Oct 19, 2007 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just wonder if this soldier ever went through his chain of command, or ever brought this to the Inspector General’s office – or did he go straight to a watchdog group or a lawyer.

-- involved the evangelizing of cadets on the part of some faculty and staff at the Air Force Academy (AFA) in Colorado Springs, Colo., which came to light in 2004. Congress held hearings, DOD conducted an investigation, and the head of the academy acknowledged significant problems. --
The Air Force actually started this investigation through the IG. It was not first brought up through Congress. Officers involved were removed and reprimanded.

-- The most serious allegations from the field cannot be corroborated for this article. A few will be raised in the lawsuits, but some incidents have been documented.
It is not that difficult to corroborate these allegations. The writer can find out about cases like this by filing a request from the Air Force. If the case is under investigation you will not get an answer until the investigation is done, but they will tell you whether an investigation is taking place, within privacy act restrictions.

I would like to see any proof of a conspiracy in this regard. There will always be individuals that try to influence another’s religious beliefs, but there are those of every faith. During the Gulf War there was a cultural awareness center at Khobar Towers. They were there to teach Islamic custom to military members, but the discussion was more often than not about religious belief. In my military time, I have been approached by atheist and Wiccans who talked to me about their religion or lack of.. I took it for what it was; sharing their beliefs with someone they trusted.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Show me proof Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Show me proof Posted by: donl51
» RE: Show me proof Posted by: werewolf
» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic
One nation under god!
Posted by: rocketman on Oct 19, 2007 3:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems like a case of doing what Americans are known for..LAWSUIT!!!!

Evangelicals are probably the greatest threat to his country..no doubt! But given the severity of the issues facing the military I doubt that religious rights is one of them.

As for military academy, I suspect the rape is an issue far surpassing the religious freedoms issue in importance and occurance. So I'm not sure this is nothing more than a few who got their freedoms trampled by a few!

Considering that we ARE a CHRISTIAN nation (80% or so) Wh would muslim countries think our attack is anything else but Christian agains Muslims! After all, that is the basis for the years of attacks on the west!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» WRONG! Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: mjglow
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: mjglow
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: bsdone
» DOLLARIA Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: Lauren
» Excellent Comment!!! Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: jroth420
» RE: WRONG! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: solrev
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: You are almost there Posted by: solrev
» RE: You are almost there Posted by: Lauren
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: rocketman
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: solrev
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: One creation under god! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: One nation under Bush Posted by: donl51
Nidieux
Posted by: Nidieux on Oct 19, 2007 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been going on forever. Publicly complaining about being forced to attend AIDS prevention "training"--given in a chapel and conducted by a witch doctor (i.e., chaplain)--essentially ended my Marine Corps career back in 1994. Check the relevant standing orders governing chaplains--the ones I've seen REQUIRE them to evangelize to their "heathen" charges. Disgusting, but business as usual in the military.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nidieux Posted by: worldwide65
» RE: Nidieux Posted by: Nidieux
» RE: Nidieux Posted by: worldwide65
» RE: Nidieux Posted by: bsdone
» Forced Into Chapel Posted by: Nidieux
» RE: Forced Into Chapel Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Please! Convenient "Back Door" Posted by: worldwide65
Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 19, 2007 3:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons [and daughetrs] of God.

Jesus Christ
The Sermon on the Mount
From the Gospel According to Matthew


That's all the troops need to know.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Christ vs Conservatism: A Serious Conflict

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Like Kurt Vonnegut said Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Like Kurt Vonnegut said Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Like Kurt Vonnegut said Posted by: Bluecat464
» RE: Oh bless this Posted by: donl51
Here is the actual link (sorry 'bout that!):
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 19, 2007 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After you're done reading all of the great responces by the readers, go to the blog's archives for July 2006 and scroll down to July 21. It might be worth your time.
Cheers!
Tom Degan
Jesus

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic
FREEDOM OF RELIGION- DEFEND IT! HELP WEINSTEIN!
Posted by: drricklippin on Oct 19, 2007 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Weinstein is doing extremely important work in protection our constitutional right of freedom of religion- the very cornerstone of our nation.

We in the US are increasingly a multicultural and multi-religious nation which MUST be recognized by all leaders-especially in our military.

I use the phrase God is "at" your side not "on" your side- the latter actually causing warfare.

If this global war on terrorism is framed as Christianity verses Islam we are in very deep trouble.

THANK YOU MIKEY WEINSTEIN! FOR FOUNDING MRFF

Win those lawsuits! Don't give up. I stand with you!

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Jesus with a M16?
Posted by: peacelf on Oct 19, 2007 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a neo-traditional Christian (that is, a Christian who believes in Jesus' moral teachings: a pacifist, anti-racist, anti-sexist, care for the poor, love your neighbor, do unto others, justice seeking, compassionate Christian--Like, Jesus the Jew, I don't believe in an afterlife) I am deeply disturbed by what Cornell West calls the Constantinian Christians.

Constantinian Christians follow the imperialist "Christ" created by the Roman emperor Constantine. They are a nihilistic, greedy, self-serving bastardization of the Jesus tradition. Their focus on the "end of times" when 'all God's children will be taken to heaven' gives them license to kill in the name of God.

Constantinian Christians commit what Bishop John Shelby Spong calls the "sins of the scripture." They use the Bible to promote their ends, the same as Constantine. They justify evil in the name of Jesus.

As I've said before in other Alternet comments, the only way to challenge their power is to understand their beliefs and provide scriptural evidence of their misinterpretations. In other words, Constantinian Christians need to be de-programmed. Several Christian scholars--including the ones I mentioned-- are doing that very thing in their books.

Secular atheists, though, will have a difficult time convincing a Constantinian Christian to give up his beliefs. To Constantinian Christians, atheists are their worse enemies.

(And, yes, I attend a Southern Baptist Church every Sunday. I'm a subversive teacher of truth, justice and compassion for others.)

Peace

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Just FYI Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Just FYI Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Just FYI Posted by: Ellie F.
» RE: Jesus with a M16? Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Jesus with a M16? Posted by: bsdone
» RE: Jesus was not a Jew Posted by: solrev
CHRIST was NO Christian and neither are those
Posted by: wawa on Oct 19, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That bomb, torture or occupy others!

Jesus was a social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish Road Warrior who challenged the job security of the Temple Priests by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay them for ritual baths and sacrificing livestock to be OK with God, for God LOVED them just as they were; sinners, outcasts, lepers, widows, orphans, prisoners ALL enduring under Roman Occupation.

2,000 years ago the Cross had NO religious symbolism-the roads to Jerusalem were lined with rebels and dissidents who were crucified for disturbing the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces.


The term Christian was not coined until 3 decades AFTER Christ walked the earth. His early followers were called members of THE WAY; the way being what he taught:

You must forgive to be forgiven, love and do good towards your enemies, don't judge others and it is the Peacemakers who are God's children.

Before Emperor Constantine brought Christianity into the mainstream, all the early Church Fathers taught that Christians should not serve in the army but instead willingly suffer rather than inflict harm on any other. St. Augustine was the first Church Father to consider the concept of a Just War. Within 100 years after Constantine, the Empire required that all soldiers in the army must be baptized Christians and thus, the decline of Christianity began.

In 313 AD, Emperor Constantine legitimized Christianity and thus, those who had been considered rebels and outlaws began to enjoy political power and prestige.

Jesus’ other name is The Prince of Peace, and with the marriage of church and state, his true teachings were reinterpreted. The justification of warfare and the use of state sponsored violence corrupted what Christ modeled and taught.

Jesus was always on about WAKE UP! The Divine already indwells you and all others.

With the justification of war and violence supplied by Augustine’s Just War Theory, wrong became right. Nothing much has changed in two millennia, for in today’s Orwellian world politicians claim the way to peace is through war and that nuclear weapons provide protection.

e
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You're not that WIDE AWAKE! Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: You're not that WIDE AWAKE! Posted by: Bluecat464
otto
Posted by: otto on Oct 19, 2007 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I'm concerned, the very term "Christian Army" becomes more and more a contradictory expression. "Onward Christian Soldiers?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: otto Posted by: symcokid
» RE: otto Posted by: donl51
This is some scary stuff
Posted by: outlander55 on Oct 19, 2007 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What will happen when a Democrat is elected to the White House? Will there be an attempted military coup? Maybe the majority of the populace will finally wake up and see what this country has become. Maybe political apathy will come to an end. With all of the signs pointing to a major political and military disaster in the Middle East, Americans better wake up to what the Religious Right is perpetuating. They actually believe in "End Times" and just may do anything to bring it to fruition. Who do you think the Russians and the Chinese will back up? Little Iran, or imperialist Amerika?
If it all comes down to it, the Jesus Freaks will perpetuate nuclear war to create their own End Times. Then where will we be? DEAD!!!
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!

Good night and good luck....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: This is some scary stuff Posted by: carrdmv
» RE: This is some scary stuff Posted by: outlander55
» RE: This is some scary stuff Posted by: worldwide65
» RE: This is some scary stuff Posted by: outlander55
» Better off dead than... Posted by: Cathyc
Why not use the Bible and history book for this discussion?
Posted by: carrdmv on Oct 19, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alright Bible quoting.
Christ preached peace, but had no hatred of soldiers. Here is one example of Christ opinion of soldiers. Note he never condemns the soldier.Matthew 8:5-10 (Words of Jesus in red.)
When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, appealing to him 6and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, in terrible distress." 7And he said to him, "I will come and cure him." 8The centurion answered, "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only speak the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes, and to another, 'Come,' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this,' and the slave does it." 10When Jesus heard him, he was amazed and said to those who followed him, "Truly I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith.

He did not tell the soldiers of his day to leave the military he said:
Luke 3:14
Soldiers also asked him, "And we, what should we do?" He said to them, "Do not extort money from anyone by threats or false accusation, and be satisfied with your wages."
Let's also not forget that Christ said there would be war until his return.

And in revelations war is the way to final salvation:
Luke 3:14
Jesus’ Second Coming also is exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 proclaims, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.

And finally the Bible says:
Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “there is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Some wars are more “just” than others, but all wars are ultimately the result of sin. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to the conflict, and praying for minimum casualties – on both sides of the conflict (Philippians 4:6-7).
If your going to claim to know what Jesus opposes or doesn't oppose at least read the source documents. You may want to check on the actual word used in Aramic or Hebrew as well when you look at the commandements -- kill is not the best suited word for the English translation.
Claudius actually coined the name Chritsians, and it was in common use well before Constantine.
And if you are a Christian, according to Jesus own words the way to the afterlife was through him, so "not" beleiving in the afterlife kind of makes you "not" a Christian.
But why actually use real terms when we can make them up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You poor lost responders Posted by: carrdmv
Why Aren't Republicans Outraged?
Posted by: madmac10 on Oct 19, 2007 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why this tribal affinity to party when such blatant treason against the American way is being perpetrated? When such groups ACTUALLY INTEND FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR COUNTRY in favor of the "Kingdom of God" (we threw out a king a couple centuries back, remember?) that is TREASON pure and simple.

If you cannot or will not heave these lunatics out of your big tent onto their fat fundaments, that makes you a national socialist. Is that what has become of the party of Lincoln? A bunch of slavish nazis? Don't you love America anymore?

http://www.metalvortex.com/poems/warprayer.htm

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

...and this is new, how?
Posted by: tgabriel on Oct 19, 2007 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forty years ago during my military service religious worship was absolutely expected. During Boot Camp Sunday morning was for church and if you did not go you did "physical training."

In Vietnam chaplains were everywhere and those who chose to ignore or not avail themselves of their services were not looked upon favorably.

We were allowed to put "no preference" on our dog tags but the lifers did not accept that very well.

Just as in American society, religious intolerance has been around for a long, long time.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Do you know you are winning?
Posted by: chuckie on Oct 19, 2007 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You hippies who are trying to replace the love of power with the power of love, for two generations have said nobody can impose your religion, you spit on patriotism, and you destroy traditional families. You honor victims instead of military heroes. You honor perverts instead of holy men. You honor the promiscuous instead of the faithful. You honor the lazy instead of the productive. You honor the defiant instead of the respectful. You are on series of crusades marching under your rainbow flag to change the world. By imposing your apostasy on everyone, you have stripped the US of traditional religion exactly like the Soviets stripped their society of Russian Orthodox Christianity leaving them in despair. Your success can be measured by, how more people in the US now know the ingredients of the Big-Mac, than know the Ten Commandments. You are imposing your apostasy when you fighting against Christians to stop every display and every imposition of the Ten Commandments in the US. Your relativism popularizes the breaking of every one of the Ten Commandments so every generation finds it okay to break more. Every year more people fall into despair. Christianity gave meaning to life and was the unifying force in the US that everyone had in common, and knew their place, and by you destroying it everybody now just forms their little tribes. The US I now so divided into small groups that no one political party can represent all of them, and will have to be divided into smaller countries. The successful are in their gated communities and the losers are in their street gangs. The reasons people joined the military was to defend their way of life, love of God, love of country, love of family, love of the military. Because of your anarchy, none of these institutions remain to any degree that is worth defending in the US. You are intentionally causing the US to becoming an atheist hellhole that is not worth defending. You are intentionally causing apostasy, relativism, anarchy, and tribalism. The few remaining Christians will hunker down in their compounds to keep people like you out. They will refuse to join the military to defend your atheist hellhole. You will be defeated by the next Napoleon wannabe. You will blame somebody else for it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Do you know you are winning? Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» TheNamelessCity Posted by: chuckie
» bsdone Posted by: chuckie
» LeeAnnG Posted by: chuckie
» RE: Do you know you are winning? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» madmac10 Posted by: chuckie
» Chuckie, the non-movie Posted by: Knowmad
» Knowmad Posted by: chuckie
» RE: madmac10 Posted by: madmac10
» heinz57 Posted by: chuckie
» thekidde Posted by: chuckie
» footman Posted by: chuckie
» Are you one of them too? Posted by: footman
» footman Posted by: chuckie
» RE: footman Posted by: footman
» RE: footman Posted by: worldwide65
» footman Posted by: chuckie
» RE: footman Posted by: footman
» footman Posted by: chuckie
» RE: footman Posted by: footman
» Thank both of you... Posted by: worldwide65
» worldwide65 Posted by: chuckie
» footman Posted by: chuckie
» RE: footman Posted by: werewolf
» werewolf Posted by: chuckie
» Lauren Posted by: chuckie
Good or Bad news?
Posted by: sivermoon22 on Oct 19, 2007 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, it's over folks.

That's the bad news.

They let us have the last election, because they knew they could blackmail every Repub congressman and women to stay in line, AND NOTHING WOULD GET DONE. But, by letting us have the election, they think we won't get very far in 08 whining about stolen elections. That's the one they want.

By the way, there is no difference between the parties. NONE.

When I say it's over. I mean it.

In the meantime, enjoy your life and stop worrying.

No use fighting them. It only prolongs the inevitable.
This must end. We allowed it and now we pay the cost of it.

No big.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Good or Bad news? Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Good or Bad news? Posted by: carrdmv
The religious loonies are not in the military.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 19, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole obsession with the religious right is getting old - there are such people, but they're mostly political activists for the Republican Party, trying to whip up fervor among their 'hard right' voting base.

This is the Gary Bauer crowd - they're the ideological wing of the Republican Party, who are sneered at in private by the Waspish Wing represented by Bush Sr., James Baker, etc. Yes, they are seriously crazy, but in a mostly harmless and pathetic kind of way. They have far more in common with the public relations propaganda industry than they do with the military.

They've got a few wealthy financiers who back them for their own cynical reasons, but they have no future, especially not in the military.

Military recruits may be poor, but the fact is that poor people aren't stupid, despite what the elitist neoDarwinian crowd would have you believe. They may pray fervently, but their prayers are more of the "Dear God, don't let any of my friends get their heads blown off today" variety. That has nothing to do with the political B.S. coming out of the Republican fundie wing.

neurolingo.gnn.tv

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How do ya like your All Volunteer Army now, peaceniks?
Posted by: sausage on Oct 19, 2007 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really, some blame for the current state of military affairs must be laid at the feet of the Vietnam antiwar movement.

As you know, the anti-Vietnam war movement was at the forefront of the push for an All Volunteer Force in the late Sixties and Seventies. The AVF was concocted by the godfather of the so-called free-market economy, Milton J. Friedman.

Since then its descendants have vigously fought any call for the institution of a Universal National Service, that will include a draft for military service. Now we are witness to the unintended consequences of a "Let those who want to be there, be there" military.

The AVF is far from being a representative cross-section of America. As army and Marine Corps recruiters trawl the poorer sections of America's inner cities and rural communities our military more resembles the thrill-seeking, kill-crazy banana republic, armed forces of Central America. One day in the not too distant future, these young men will be re-integrated into the civilian population as police officers, security guards, prison guards and even firefighters and postal employees. It is not by accident.

If the current crop of peaceniks are appalled by the level of brutality of exhibited by today's police, they must remember it is they and their Vietnam era antecedents who bear partial responsibility.

In the words of the late David Hackworth: Volunteers tend to go with the flow and seldom blow the whistle on military stupidity, flawed tactics and self-serving leadership. And draftees don't hesitate to make waves and tell the truth.

So it should come as no surprize that the U.S. military is more and more resembling a religious cult of warrior monks along the lines of the Knights Templar or the Knights of Malta. Mark the words of Becky Fischer, of the documentary Jesus Camp, who wants her "Christian" charges to be as fanatical and savage in the name of Christ as Osama bin Laden wishes his followers in the name of Allah. Naturally more than a few of Ms. Fischer's campers will, in the fullnes of time, elist because "God tells them" it is their duty as "Christians first" and Americans second, to be there.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Show your stats Posted by: worldwide65
» I asked you first Posted by: worldwide65
» Read on grasshopper Posted by: carrdmv
If the reich-wingers really want a Christian army,
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Oct 19, 2007 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why don't they urge their megachurch sheep to enlist?

plur

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

25ghostcommander
Posted by: 25ghostcommander on Oct 19, 2007 11:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republican Christianization of the military started in the 1970's. If they found out you had no religious preference, you were in trouble and many were harassed and even discharged from the military.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 25ghostcommander Posted by: Doubtom
Christian
Posted by: heinz57 on Oct 19, 2007 11:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, what is this? Christian/Christianity the new stigma/buzzword? There are, and probably the majority of Christians, those that are dead against the US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan and there are the fundamentalist right that seem to give all Christians a bad name. And there are journalists that don't know the difference.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Christian wants warriors of god
Posted by: drblack on Oct 19, 2007 12:12 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw a show last night on the TBN(Trinity Broadcast network) that was creepy.
A guy named John Eldridge was saying that men don't follow jesus because he looks like such a wimp these days and that modern society is emasculating.
He says boys have to be taught to be warriors of god.
I wonder how many mosques a teen boy has to bomb and how many non-believer s that teen has to torture before he is initiated into gods army.
Christian extremist are no different then muslim extremists..they simply use different symbols.

It is good to keep an eye on what the enemies of Freedom are up to.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ORGANIZED RELIGION THE BASTARDIZATION OF SPIRITUALITY
Posted by: RODNOX on Oct 19, 2007 1:49 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AFTER STUDYING RELIGION FROM VARIOUS DIRECTIONS----PSYCHOLOGY---WAR----PERSONAL GROWTH ETC IT BECAME OBVIOUS THAT IT HAS MORE OF A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON SOCIETY AND THE WORLD AS A WHOLE.IT DISPLACES THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OF ONES ACTIONS---PHYSICAL AND VERBAL.IT DISPLACES GROWTH AND PERSONAL THOUGHT.AFTER ALL ,MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN THIS WORLD IN THE NAME OF RELIGION THAN ALL DISEASE AND NATURAL DISASTERS PUT TOGETHER......AS GEORGE CARLIN SAID '' KEEP YOUR RELIGION TO YOURSELF''......WE WOULD ALL BE ALOT BETTER OFF....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The mission of Jesus
Posted by: Ellie F. on Oct 19, 2007 1:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Jesus had wanted the gospel spread through military conquest he would have founded a military organization. But, in fact, his mission was about radical stuff like blessing and praying for one's enemies. These people are not Christians. Maybe they're ChristinanISTS but they are not followers of the Prince of Peace.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The mission of Jesus Posted by: chuckie
» RE: The mission of Jesus Posted by: Ellie F.
» AGREE 10,000% Ellie... Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: The mission of Jesus Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
thekidde
Posted by: thekidde on Oct 19, 2007 2:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a draftee in 1966, I was my basic training platoons "training platoon sergeant" for the last 6 weeks of the 8 week training. Word came from on high that those of us not attending a religious church service on Sundays would be on work detail as opposed to having free time. I went to the company executive officer and explained that this was not acceptable for numerous reasons - believe it or not, the mandate was recinded and those of us who did not attend religious services were not put on work detail. Later, as a commissioned officer through OCS, I never pushed any of my men to be religious, but neither did I push my atheism at them. In combat, one takes care of ones own, regardless of whose "god" is being fought over, about or for.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: thekidde Posted by: donl51
GOD SAID DON"T KILL OTHER PEOPLE.....
Posted by: Michiganman on Oct 19, 2007 11:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....I said OK.
What?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

And the war marches on
Posted by: worldwide65 on Oct 20, 2007 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone has a side and everyone is posting their point of view, that is the nature of these sites.
It is amazing however how fast that the name callers come out of the wood work or someone says DIE AND GO TO HELL.
At least 3 non-Christians here have spoken out and stated that this “Building God’s (Christian) Army” story smells of propaganda. And what do they get in turn?
The non-Christians were attacked for being Christian. I guess you could be called worse. Especially if we are talking about the essence of what Christian is supposed to mean.
Others, non-Christians are suddenly experts on all of Christianity. They run around and find a few bits from Wikipedia to use as there source for argument. (By the way, Wikipedia is created by people submitting inputs. There is no scholarly group out there building it.)
Members of the military posting here have posted their opinions, some on both sides of the table.
But those who have never served, somehow, know more about it than the ones who have.
There were some very thought provoking post here.
I particularly like the argument of a whether we are a Christian Nation. We are, we aren’t-- use the definition however you like – split all the hairs you want -- it doesn’t matter.
It is just one more example of the political machines ability to divide the people.
My favorite post are from the “All violence is wrong crowd.” They are the same ones who tell people to DIE or and call out to KILL Them All. They also happen to be the ones who say Christians are evil and the military are killers.
My apologies to you “All violence is wrong” people who have not called for blood.
Again and again these people do this throughout Alternet. They are as divisive as the people they are accusing of being divisive, but are too blinded by their own propaganda to realize it.
It is time to realize that the political machine is the one who divides the nation. It is not your Jewish neighbor, or the Muslim cross town. It is not the Christian church on Main Street. It is the powerful and political who divide.
As long as they keep you thinking it is someone else’s fault and fighting with each other over semantics like “Christian Nation,” the people can never unite and take steps to make real change in the government.
And yes, I have said this before. Hopefully at least someone will listen this time.
Probably not though, I'm sure I'm either ignorant, elitist, republican or Christian and should DIE and go to Hell.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Worldwide?65 GO KILL SOMEONE.... Posted by: Michiganman
this is why Christianity is so screwed up....wait...it's...
Posted by: eosrk on Oct 20, 2007 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all fucked up. I recently had to attend an "parenting class", ordered by the Will County Court and you guessed it, it was at an Catholic university (also to note, the Caths have that sowed up, as with everything else). By them trying to force-fed their views on the people in the room, including their beliefs, in which the whole boring four-hour class is taught by nuns (hence the name, "git nun"), it came to one conlusion; it helped speed up my decision to divorce the wife finally last week, after four years of pure hell (For I was seperated for the last Two).

So to put it short, I told the Caths to "Go Fuck yourselves....oh wait, you already do!

For you see, I'm Apolstolic Penecostal, and they're full of assholes too, but I know the True history of the Catholic Church!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Major in Question's myspace page
Posted by: Dolly Dagger on Oct 20, 2007 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.myspace.com/freddywelborn
Chew on that for awhile -- this is the guy who burst in on the meeting that was approved by the chaplain.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

One god right?
Posted by: donl51 on Oct 21, 2007 8:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God Alah Budda,etc. not up on my godnames, don't believe, anyway if all the nations claim god/alah is on their side in this stupid war ,how does that work?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: One god right? Posted by: madmac10
you want bin laden?
Posted by: donl51 on Oct 21, 2007 8:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You don't send a high tech army etc after a loosely ragtag bunch, send blackwater,we'd save lifes, lots of money, face ,still have friends ,show the world we really don't have a cowboy running the show,and Bush might even be liked !!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

www.votenic.com
Posted by: votenic on Oct 21, 2007 8:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WEEKLY POLL

http://www.votenic.com

Results Posted Tuesday Evening.
FREE, NON-BIASED

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

All upper case is hard to read
Posted by: partisan on Oct 25, 2007 2:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title says it all. All caps is annoying, even if I agree with you. No offense meant.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]