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The Pope Versus the President

Two right-wing powers collide.
October 10, 2007  |  
 
 
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The Vatican's recent snub of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is only the latest salvo in the battle between Pope Benedict XVI and President George W. Bush. This tug of war has profound implications for both U.S. foreign policy and the critical Catholic vote in 2008's presidential race.

Overlapping Agendas

Things haven't always been tense between Bush and Benedict. They share similar views regarding abortion, gay marriage, and other hot-button conservative issues. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (as Benedict was known before becoming Pope in April 2005) even helped Bush secure the White House for a second term.

Specifically, after Bush visited the Vatican in June 2004, complaining that "Not all the American bishops are with me," Ratzinger sent a letter to US bishops, ordering them to refuse Communion to "a Catholic politician … consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws" - a thinly-veiled reference to John Kerry. Ratzinger added that any person even voting for this Catholic politician "would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion." Probably no surprise, then, that Bush increased his margin among Catholics by 6% from 2000 to 2004.

In an interesting twist, Ratzinger also partnered with George W. Bush's brother Neil in a foundation "to promote ecumenical understanding and publish original religious texts" in 1999. Oddly enough, business credit reports listed the foundation as a "management trust for purposes other than education, religion, charity or research," leaving the true nature of the Neil Bush/Cardinal Ratzinger venture unclear.

In 2005, Ratzinger was named as a defendant in a U.S. lawsuit suit accusing him of conspiring to cover up the sexual abuse of minors. At the center of the controversy was a May 2001 confidential letter he had sent Catholic bishops across the world ordering them to keep evidence of the sexual abuse of minors by clergy secret until 10 years after the child had reached adult status.

Soon after becoming Pope, however, Ratzinger was dismissed from the case. A US federal judge decided the lawsuit would be "incompatible with the United States' foreign policy interests."

Disagreements Multiply

On many contentious issues since then, Pope Benedict XVI has disagreed with the Bush administration's policies, but only politely and indirectly. For example, Benedict has spoken in favor of the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is often at loggerheads with Bush administration foreign policy.

Similarly, Benedict's Vatican has taken a firm stance against global warming, even acquiring a carbon offset forest to make the Vatican the "first entirely carbon neutral sovereign state." He has called for greater international co-operation to fight ozone depletion, yet not overtly criticized White House foot-dragging in that area.

The gloves came off, however, regarding the war in Iraq. In a May 2003 interview, Ratzinger said, " There was not sufficient reasons to unleash a war in Iraq. To say nothing of the fact that, given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a 'just war.'"

The U.S. invasion of Iraq was similarly contentious for former Pope John Paul II, who sent a special envoy to the White House in March 2003 in an effort to prevent an attack. The papal envoy's pleas fell on deaf ears.

Vatican criticisms of the Bush administration's military intervention in Iraq have continued unabated. French Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, head of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, told an Italian magazine in August 2007, "The facts speak for themselves. Alienating the international community (with the U.S. push for war) was a mistake." Tauran, who has referred to the invasion and occupation as a "crime against peace," also said that Christians in Iraq "paradoxically, were more protected under the dictatorship" of Saddam Hussein.

Rice Rebuffed

As such, it is perhaps unsurprising that Benedict failed to honor Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's urgent request for a private meeting last month. The Italian periodical Corriere della Sera reported that Rice was hoping to capitalize on the Pope's moral authority by having a papal audience focused on the Middle East. Instead, Rice was told that Benedict was on holiday and had to settle for a telephone conversation with a lower Vatican official.

The ongoing tensions between Bush and Benedict over Iraq put America's over 75 million Roman Catholics in a tricky position for 2008. By supporting candidates hawkish on the Bush administration's Iraq policies, are they defying the Pope and the Catholic Church?

For its part, the powerful United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has taken a firm stance against the US presence in Iraq. A July 2007 letter to House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH), USCCB noted, "The current situation in Iraq is unacceptable and unsustainable, as is the policy and political stalemate among decision makers in Washington … our nation must have the moral courage to change course in Iraq."

Dissent is swelling up from the grassroots as well. In August 2007, an alliance of religious groups calling itself Catholics for an End to War collected 10,000 signatures for an online petition "urging leaders to commit to a responsible withdrawal of U.S. troops." Sister Simone Campbell of the national Catholic social justice lobby NETWORK said, "Church leaders and individual Catholics have opposed U.S. policy in Iraq since before the war began," adding that the petition "lets thousands of Catholics unite to speak out even more strongly for an end to the violence and occupation."

In other words, being dovish on Iraq might help the next Democratic presidential contender win Roman Catholic votes. Whether the current front-runners qualify for that distinction, however, is another matter.
Heather Wokusch is the author of The Progressives' Handbook series. For a video of this article or to contact Heather, visit heatherwokusch.com
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Comments are closed-

Heather doesn't know her facts
Posted by: nancy156 on Oct 11, 2007 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another Catholic basher, or are you really that ignorant of the facts Heather? FYI, Pope Benedict did NOT snub Rice. He was on vacation, and rarely accepts visitors during that time. It's the only "down time" he gets which he uses to write, play his piano, and relax. Can you not respect that? When was the last time YOU worked during YOUR vacation. Granted, had this been a real emergency, that' would have been a different story. He did what all reasonable people do on vactaion, and that is, leave someone else who is responsable to carry on with the day to day things.

As for the letter and the "10 year hold", you are really off base on that too. Did you even read that letter, which by the way, was written in Latin? I didn't think so. Since facts don't seem to matter to you, I am not going to waste my time writing "facts' of the letter only for you to ignore or manipulate. I only would like readers seeking truth to know that Benedict had and continues to have great concern for all of the abused and great disgust for all who in any way contributed to the abuse.

Shame on you Heather. You appear to be nothing more than a anit Catholic tabloid "journalist." As for the "Catholic vote", real Catholics see through phony tactics. If the Catholics of America of ever bcome REAL Catholics and vote like real Catholics, we would control the entire country simply by our numbers and "Catholic values." It's not likely to happen, but who knows, with God, all things are possible. In any case, we don't need any phony Catholics; already had one last election. We also don't need people writing about Catholicsm who don't have a clue or care about the facts. Dare you write such fiction about the Muslim faith, ahhh, that would take some real courage. Only cowards attack Catholicsm.

Nancy

p.s. When people like you "get it wrong" and make the current Pope look like the bad guy that he is anything but, YOU TOO CONTRIBUE TO THE PAIN OF THE ABUSED. How do you think it feels to be told even the Pope is against you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Heather doesn't know her facts Posted by: redstarwraith
» RE: Heather doesn't know her facts Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» Facts? Posted by: Sparks56

Comments are closed-

Right vs Left limits scope of debate
Posted by: Cap'n Solar on Oct 11, 2007 6:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To look at this as two 'right wingers collide' is failing to break out of the extremely narrow right vs left mold that we are fed by the inept media to limit any real debate. There is no confusion as to why the Pope would stand against Bush if we escape the narrow R vs L view.

The Pope, as the leader of the Catholic Church, stands for respect for life and the dignity of the human person. That is all human life and his views are consistent, and thus can not be pigeon holed into ‘left’ or ‘right’. That is why Catholics are against abortion (rightist view), the death penalty (leftist view), torture (even of Muslims! – very leftist view), war unless absolutely necessary (leftist view), and euthanasia (rightist view).

It also explains why the Pope is so much in favor of progressive environmental causes like global warming mitigation – not only respect for creation, but also to lesson the harm and suffering on people – all people. The sad fact is American Catholics never really have a candidate in the US where they can vote their conscience and their morals. We choose between evils.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Oh, what we have become... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Dignity? Posted by: EKSwitaj
» Aye, aye, Captn! Posted by: Tom Degan
» Aye, aye, Tom! Posted by: hagwind
» "We choose between evils." Posted by: Sojourner

Comments are closed-

The Pope vs George W?
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 12, 2007 2:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do you pick between two monsters? Sort of like Godzilla vs. King Kong. Either way you lose.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic

Comments are closed-

His Holiness Not Amused
Posted by: fg on Oct 12, 2007 9:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it perfectly obvious His Holiness thinks interaction with the American administration is a total waste of time? If I were pope, I would snub Condy too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

THE TWISTED MENTALITY OF THE BUSH REGIME
Posted by: SALLY EVANS on Oct 13, 2007 9:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT WAS IN 2003 THAT POPE JOHN PAUL II TOLD BUSH THAT IT WOULD BE IMMORAL TO INVADE IRAQ. BUT BUSH TOLD THE POPE THAT GOD TOLD HIM IT WOULD BE O.K. TO INVADE IRAQ! UNFORTUNATELY MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WERE CONNED BY BUSH AND HIS PHONY RELIGION. THE MEANING OF CHRISTIAN IS: ""AN IMITATOR OF CHRIST"" BUSH IS THE ESSENCE OF EVIL AND HAS BEEN TRYING TO CON THE VATICAN. BOTH OF BUSH'S GRANDFATHERS MADE THE FAMILY FORTUNE SUPPORTING THE FASCISTS DURING WWII. THE FAMILY ARE GREEDY OPPORTUNISTS AND USE THE CHRISTIAN FAITH AS A "TOOL".INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, WAYNE MADSEN REPORTS INTENSELY ON THE VIEWS OF POPE JOHN PAUL II CONCERNING BUSH.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholics were being used
Posted by: jontan88 on Oct 19, 2007 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US Catholics were used by Bush and his Evangelical cohorts to support Bush's "re-election" based on his anti-abortion views. On the war, they effectively snubbed John Paul II. Many conservative US Catholics chose Party over Church in supporting the invasion (people like Michael Novak and Sam Brownback) of Iraq going so far as to "admonish" the Pope in articles telling him to "back off" and to stop "interfering in US affairs". Of course, when election time came, they all went on bended knee to plead with the Pope to condemn Kerry for his Pro-Choice views. As I see it, it's the conservatives who are the hypocrites - whose primary concern is that their Party gain and hold on to power rather than concern for any of the Church's teachings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Catholics were being used Posted by: aonghus36

Comments are closed-

Doin' the Vatican Rag
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 19, 2007 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me be as clear and as concise as I possibly can be:

Any practicing, devout Catholic who foolishly - stupidly continues to support the obscenity that is being waged by the government of the United States against the men, women and little children of Iraq should hang his or her head in utter shame. The vatican has twice - under two different popes vehemently condemed the atrocity that we, as taxpayers are funding in that country. They probably didn't report that nasty little piece of information on FOX Noise but it is yet another inconvenient truth that we would all do good by facing.

"Blessed are the peacemakers. For they shall be called sons [and daughters] of God."

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Doin' the Vatican Rag Posted by: bsdone

Comments are closed-

Thanks AlterNet
Posted by: Bee152 on Oct 19, 2007 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Very interesting article and a fresh perspective

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic

Comments are closed-

lapsed religiousity
Posted by: jefhadist on Oct 19, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
75 million catholics? big "C" or little "c"? good thing most of them are lapsed in some form or another. sounds like some of them want to take over the world just like those damned islamofascists. boy am i scared. thank god/dess for martin luther and his 95 theses. otherwise we'd all still be scraping and genuflecting and kissing our own and everyone else's arses to buy indulgences to build even bigger and better cathedrals. the pope? a shopworn excuse of a figurehead designed to justify mental coercion. and wasn't this one towing the party line when hitler took over? pitiful. where is jesus when you need him, anyways? not in too many of those churches. that's for sure. probably out in that carbon- offset forest.

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otto
Posted by: otto on Oct 19, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has been all along a minority nucleus of us Roman Catholics who have opposed the war and Bush policies all along, following the tradition of people like Dan Berrigan.

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Catholic Church sounds like a political organization
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Oct 19, 2007 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It they're a political organization telling people how to vote, how do they get religious tax exemptions? You mean Catholics don't want their tax dollars to fund abortions, but they want my tax dollars to support their politically oriented church?

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» The Church does more than talk Posted by: ReallyBearish

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Let's not overlook
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Oct 19, 2007 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that the Vatican is surely uneasy about the propsect of having a billion ticked-off Muslims at its gates.

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» RE: Let's not overlook Posted by: JSquercia

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Will this idiot never shut up?
Posted by: dkm on Oct 19, 2007 12:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a picture going around the internet of George Bush haranguing Pope JP II while the Pope is sitting there with his head in his hands. The caption says, "Will this idiot never shut up?!" It exemplifies lots of people's attitudes toward Mr. Bush.

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Battle of the world's two biggest pricks
Posted by: mercury613 on Oct 19, 2007 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope they annihilate each other.

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But when they agree
Posted by: raywigton on Oct 19, 2007 9:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Examples of the poop in disagreement with the village idiot tend to make the poop look like a good guy. But when they agree on a topic, it's pure evil.

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The pope ate my homework...
Posted by: Michiganman on Oct 19, 2007 11:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
so screw that jerk!
what a fricking joke....pope -schmoke -whatever

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Catholicism is totalitarian
Posted by: Jasonix on Oct 20, 2007 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ten years ago, I would have said that Catholicism was simply another Christian denomination with some odd beliefs. But circumstances in my life have led to me to see Catholicism up close. What I've learned has frightened me profoundly.

Catholicism is a totalitarian empire that seeks to subvert and supplant every other religion and culture on earth. The way it accomplishes this goal puts Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia to shame. Not only does it use ideology and language to control people's minds, but it uses ritual, ethnic identity, and even basic family relationships to keep people hooked to the Church. Here in America, Catholic hypocrites (a.k.a., "Cultural Catholics") claim to be liberal, educated folks who don't believe the church's B.S. about birth control, the place of women, etc. But whenever anyone who isn't Catholic tries to question the damage that the Church is doing to society, all these hypocrites instantly leap to the defense of their beloved Cult. They say that anyone who criticizes their Cult is a "nativist bigot" who really hates Irish, Italian, Polish, or Portuguese people. They provide cover for the insane anti-birth control zealots who want to keep people like Terri Schiavo hooked to feeding tubes against their wishes.

A crazy Protestant stands on a street corner and hands out corny Gospel tracts. A crazy Catholic whips himself and sleeps on a board. Quite often, an insane Catholic feels awkward at the beach, because she wears a garter belt of barbed wire to scar her flesh. While James Dobson may hold influence over reactionary Protestant fools, the fact is that Dobson is nothing more than a radio show host stating his opinion. A Catholic priest or bishop has the poor to send a person's soul to hell if that person disobeys an order.

For all the talk about right-wing evangelicals (and not all evangelicals are right-wing), the really scary potential for theocracy, forced child-birth, forced extension of life against nature for no purpose other than suffering, abolition of birth control, etc. comes from the Catholic Church.

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» RE: Catholicism is totalitarian Posted by: astockton
» RE: Catholicism is totalitarian Posted by: worldwide65

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THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Oct 21, 2007 7:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two men enter - one man leaves!

plur

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www.votenic.com
Posted by: votenic on Oct 21, 2007 8:58 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WEEKLY POLL

http://www.votenic.com

Results Posted Tuesday Evening.
FREE, NON-BIASED

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Heather doesn't know her facts
Posted by: nancy156 on Oct 11, 2007 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another Catholic basher, or are you really that ignorant of the facts Heather? FYI, Pope Benedict did NOT snub Rice. He was on vacation, and rarely accepts visitors during that time. It's the only "down time" he gets which he uses to write, play his piano, and relax. Can you not respect that? When was the last time YOU worked during YOUR vacation. Granted, had this been a real emergency, that' would have been a different story. He did what all reasonable people do on vactaion, and that is, leave someone else who is responsable to carry on with the day to day things.

As for the letter and the "10 year hold", you are really off base on that too. Did you even read that letter, which by the way, was written in Latin? I didn't think so. Since facts don't seem to matter to you, I am not going to waste my time writing "facts' of the letter only for you to ignore or manipulate. I only would like readers seeking truth to know that Benedict had and continues to have great concern for all of the abused and great disgust for all who in any way contributed to the abuse.

Shame on you Heather. You appear to be nothing more than a anit Catholic tabloid "journalist." As for the "Catholic vote", real Catholics see through phony tactics. If the Catholics of America of ever bcome REAL Catholics and vote like real Catholics, we would control the entire country simply by our numbers and "Catholic values." It's not likely to happen, but who knows, with God, all things are possible. In any case, we don't need any phony Catholics; already had one last election. We also don't need people writing about Catholicsm who don't have a clue or care about the facts. Dare you write such fiction about the Muslim faith, ahhh, that would take some real courage. Only cowards attack Catholicsm.

Nancy

p.s. When people like you "get it wrong" and make the current Pope look like the bad guy that he is anything but, YOU TOO CONTRIBUE TO THE PAIN OF THE ABUSED. How do you think it feels to be told even the Pope is against you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Heather doesn't know her facts Posted by: redstarwraith
» RE: Heather doesn't know her facts Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» Facts? Posted by: Sparks56

Comments are closed-

Right vs Left limits scope of debate
Posted by: Cap'n Solar on Oct 11, 2007 6:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To look at this as two 'right wingers collide' is failing to break out of the extremely narrow right vs left mold that we are fed by the inept media to limit any real debate. There is no confusion as to why the Pope would stand against Bush if we escape the narrow R vs L view.

The Pope, as the leader of the Catholic Church, stands for respect for life and the dignity of the human person. That is all human life and his views are consistent, and thus can not be pigeon holed into ‘left’ or ‘right’. That is why Catholics are against abortion (rightist view), the death penalty (leftist view), torture (even of Muslims! – very leftist view), war unless absolutely necessary (leftist view), and euthanasia (rightist view).

It also explains why the Pope is so much in favor of progressive environmental causes like global warming mitigation – not only respect for creation, but also to lesson the harm and suffering on people – all people. The sad fact is American Catholics never really have a candidate in the US where they can vote their conscience and their morals. We choose between evils.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Oh, what we have become... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Dignity? Posted by: EKSwitaj
» Aye, aye, Captn! Posted by: Tom Degan
» Aye, aye, Tom! Posted by: hagwind
» "We choose between evils." Posted by: Sojourner

Comments are closed-

The Pope vs George W?
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 12, 2007 2:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do you pick between two monsters? Sort of like Godzilla vs. King Kong. Either way you lose.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic

Comments are closed-

His Holiness Not Amused
Posted by: fg on Oct 12, 2007 9:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it perfectly obvious His Holiness thinks interaction with the American administration is a total waste of time? If I were pope, I would snub Condy too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

THE TWISTED MENTALITY OF THE BUSH REGIME
Posted by: SALLY EVANS on Oct 13, 2007 9:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT WAS IN 2003 THAT POPE JOHN PAUL II TOLD BUSH THAT IT WOULD BE IMMORAL TO INVADE IRAQ. BUT BUSH TOLD THE POPE THAT GOD TOLD HIM IT WOULD BE O.K. TO INVADE IRAQ! UNFORTUNATELY MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WERE CONNED BY BUSH AND HIS PHONY RELIGION. THE MEANING OF CHRISTIAN IS: ""AN IMITATOR OF CHRIST"" BUSH IS THE ESSENCE OF EVIL AND HAS BEEN TRYING TO CON THE VATICAN. BOTH OF BUSH'S GRANDFATHERS MADE THE FAMILY FORTUNE SUPPORTING THE FASCISTS DURING WWII. THE FAMILY ARE GREEDY OPPORTUNISTS AND USE THE CHRISTIAN FAITH AS A "TOOL".INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, WAYNE MADSEN REPORTS INTENSELY ON THE VIEWS OF POPE JOHN PAUL II CONCERNING BUSH.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholics were being used
Posted by: jontan88 on Oct 19, 2007 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US Catholics were used by Bush and his Evangelical cohorts to support Bush's "re-election" based on his anti-abortion views. On the war, they effectively snubbed John Paul II. Many conservative US Catholics chose Party over Church in supporting the invasion (people like Michael Novak and Sam Brownback) of Iraq going so far as to "admonish" the Pope in articles telling him to "back off" and to stop "interfering in US affairs". Of course, when election time came, they all went on bended knee to plead with the Pope to condemn Kerry for his Pro-Choice views. As I see it, it's the conservatives who are the hypocrites - whose primary concern is that their Party gain and hold on to power rather than concern for any of the Church's teachings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Catholics were being used Posted by: aonghus36

Comments are closed-

Doin' the Vatican Rag
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 19, 2007 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me be as clear and as concise as I possibly can be:

Any practicing, devout Catholic who foolishly - stupidly continues to support the obscenity that is being waged by the government of the United States against the men, women and little children of Iraq should hang his or her head in utter shame. The vatican has twice - under two different popes vehemently condemed the atrocity that we, as taxpayers are funding in that country. They probably didn't report that nasty little piece of information on FOX Noise but it is yet another inconvenient truth that we would all do good by facing.

"Blessed are the peacemakers. For they shall be called sons [and daughters] of God."

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Doin' the Vatican Rag Posted by: bsdone

Comments are closed-

Thanks AlterNet
Posted by: Bee152 on Oct 19, 2007 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Very interesting article and a fresh perspective

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» www.votenic.com Posted by: votenic

Comments are closed-

lapsed religiousity
Posted by: jefhadist on Oct 19, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
75 million catholics? big "C" or little "c"? good thing most of them are lapsed in some form or another. sounds like some of them want to take over the world just like those damned islamofascists. boy am i scared. thank god/dess for martin luther and his 95 theses. otherwise we'd all still be scraping and genuflecting and kissing our own and everyone else's arses to buy indulgences to build even bigger and better cathedrals. the pope? a shopworn excuse of a figurehead designed to justify mental coercion. and wasn't this one towing the party line when hitler took over? pitiful. where is jesus when you need him, anyways? not in too many of those churches. that's for sure. probably out in that carbon- offset forest.

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otto
Posted by: otto on Oct 19, 2007 6:45 AM   
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There has been all along a minority nucleus of us Roman Catholics who have opposed the war and Bush policies all along, following the tradition of people like Dan Berrigan.

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Catholic Church sounds like a political organization
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Oct 19, 2007 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It they're a political organization telling people how to vote, how do they get religious tax exemptions? You mean Catholics don't want their tax dollars to fund abortions, but they want my tax dollars to support their politically oriented church?

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» The Church does more than talk Posted by: ReallyBearish

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Let's not overlook
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Oct 19, 2007 8:14 AM   
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that the Vatican is surely uneasy about the propsect of having a billion ticked-off Muslims at its gates.

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» RE: Let's not overlook Posted by: JSquercia

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Will this idiot never shut up?
Posted by: dkm on Oct 19, 2007 12:08 PM   
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There is a picture going around the internet of George Bush haranguing Pope JP II while the Pope is sitting there with his head in his hands. The caption says, "Will this idiot never shut up?!" It exemplifies lots of people's attitudes toward Mr. Bush.

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Battle of the world's two biggest pricks
Posted by: mercury613 on Oct 19, 2007 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope they annihilate each other.

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But when they agree
Posted by: raywigton on Oct 19, 2007 9:29 PM   
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Examples of the poop in disagreement with the village idiot tend to make the poop look like a good guy. But when they agree on a topic, it's pure evil.

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The pope ate my homework...
Posted by: Michiganman on Oct 19, 2007 11:07 PM   
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so screw that jerk!
what a fricking joke....pope -schmoke -whatever

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Catholicism is totalitarian
Posted by: Jasonix on Oct 20, 2007 11:36 AM   
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Ten years ago, I would have said that Catholicism was simply another Christian denomination with some odd beliefs. But circumstances in my life have led to me to see Catholicism up close. What I've learned has frightened me profoundly.

Catholicism is a totalitarian empire that seeks to subvert and supplant every other religion and culture on earth. The way it accomplishes this goal puts Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia to shame. Not only does it use ideology and language to control people's minds, but it uses ritual, ethnic identity, and even basic family relationships to keep people hooked to the Church. Here in America, Catholic hypocrites (a.k.a., "Cultural Catholics") claim to be liberal, educated folks who don't believe the church's B.S. about birth control, the place of women, etc. But whenever anyone who isn't Catholic tries to question the damage that the Church is doing to society, all these hypocrites instantly leap to the defense of their beloved Cult. They say that anyone who criticizes their Cult is a "nativist bigot" who really hates Irish, Italian, Polish, or Portuguese people. They provide cover for the insane anti-birth control zealots who want to keep people like Terri Schiavo hooked to feeding tubes against their wishes.

A crazy Protestant stands on a street corner and hands out corny Gospel tracts. A crazy Catholic whips himself and sleeps on a board. Quite often, an insane Catholic feels awkward at the beach, because she wears a garter belt of barbed wire to scar her flesh. While James Dobson may hold influence over reactionary Protestant fools, the fact is that Dobson is nothing more than a radio show host stating his opinion. A Catholic priest or bishop has the poor to send a person's soul to hell if that person disobeys an order.

For all the talk about right-wing evangelicals (and not all evangelicals are right-wing), the really scary potential for theocracy, forced child-birth, forced extension of life against nature for no purpose other than suffering, abolition of birth control, etc. comes from the Catholic Church.

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» RE: Catholicism is totalitarian Posted by: astockton
» RE: Catholicism is totalitarian Posted by: worldwide65

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THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Oct 21, 2007 7:07 PM   
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Two men enter - one man leaves!

plur

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www.votenic.com
Posted by: votenic on Oct 21, 2007 8:58 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WEEKLY POLL

http://www.votenic.com

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