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Will the Military Halt an Iran Attack?

By Jeremy Brecher and Brendan Smith, TheNation.com. Posted October 10, 2007.


With little reason to have hope in Congress, peace activists are calling on the military to restrain Bush.
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Sometimes history -- and necessity -- make strange bedfellows. The German general staff transported Lenin to Russia to lead a revolution. Union-buster Ronald Reagan played godfather to the birth of the Polish Solidarity union. Equally strange -- but perhaps equally necessary -- is the addressee of a new appeal signed by Daniel Ellsberg, Cindy Sheehan, Ann Wright and many other leaders of the American peace movement:

"ATTENTION: Joint Chiefs of Staff and all U.S. Military Personnel: Do not attack Iran."

The initiative responds to the growing calls for an attack on Iran from the likes of Norman Podhoretz and John Bolton, and the reports of growing war momentum in Washington by reporters like Seymour Hersh of The New Yorker and Joe Klein of Time. International lawyer Scott Horton says European diplomats at the recent United Nations General Assembly gathering in New York "believe that the United States will launch an air war on Iran, and that it will occur within the next six to eight months." He puts the likelihood of conflict at 70 percent.

The initiative also responds to the recent failure of Congress to pass legislation requiring its approval before an attack on Iran and the hawk-driven resolution encouraging the President to act against the Iranian military. Marcy Winograd, president of Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles, who originally suggested the petition, told The Nation:



If we thought that our lawmakers would restrain the Bush Administration from further endangering Americans and the rest of the world, we would concentrate solely on them. If we went to Las Vegas today, would we find anyone willing to bet on this Congress restraining Bush? I don't think so.



Because our soldiers know the horrors of war -- severed limbs, blindness, brain injury -- they are loath to romanticize the battlefield or glorify expansion of the Iraq genocide that has left a million Iraqis dead and millions others exiled.



Military Resistance

What could be stranger than a group of peace activists petitioning the military to stop a war? And yet there is more logic here than meets the eye.

Asked in an online discussion September 27 whether the Bush Administration will launch a war against Iran, Washington Post intelligence reporter Dana Priest replied, "Frankly, I think the military would revolt and there would be no pilots to fly those missions."

She acknowledged that she had indulged in a bit of hyperbole, then added, "but not much."

There have been many other hints of military disaffection from plans to attack Iran -- indeed, military resistance may help explain why, despite years of rumors about Bush Administration intentions, such an attack has not yet occurred. A Pentagon consultant told Hersh more than a year ago, "There is a war about the war going on inside the building." Hersh also reported that Gen. Peter Pace had forced Bush and Cheney to remove the "nuclear option" from the plans for possible conflict with Iran -- in the Pentagon it was known as the April Revolution.

In December, according to Time correspondent Joe Klein, President Bush met with the Joint Chiefs of Staff in a secure room known as The Tank. The President was told that "the U.S. could launch a devastating air attack on Iran's government and military, wiping out the Iranian air force, the command and control structure and some of the more obvious nuclear facilities." But the Joint Chiefs were "unanimously opposed to taking that course of action," both because it might not eliminate Iran's nuclear capacity and because Iran could respond devastatingly in Iraq -- and in the United States.

In an article published by Inter Press Service, historian and national security policy analyst Gareth Porter reported that Adm. William Fallon, Bush's then-nominee to head the Central Command (Centcom), sent the Defense Department a strongly worded message earlier this year opposing the plan to send a third carrier strike group into the Persian Gulf. In another Inter Press analysis, Porter quotes someone who met with Fallon saying an attack on Iran "will not happen on my watch." He added, "You know what choices I have. I'm a professional. ... There are several of us trying to put the crazies back in the box."

Military officers in the field have frequently refuted Bush Administration claims about Iranian arms in Iraq and Afghanistan. Porter says that when a State Department official this June publicly accused Iran of giving arms to the Taliban in Afghanistan, the US commander of NATO forces there twice denied the claim.

More recently, top brass have warned that the United States is not prepared for new wars. Gen. George Casey, the Army's top commander, recently made a highly unusual personal request for a House Armed Services Committee hearing in which he warned that "we are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight and are unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other potential contingencies." While this could surely be interpreted as a call for more troops and resources, it may simultaneously be a warning shot against adventures in Iran.

An October 8 report by Tim Shipman in the Telegraph says that Defense Secretary Robert Gates has "taken charge of the forces in the American government opposed to a US military attack on Iran." He cites Pentagon sources saying that Gates is waging "a subtle campaign to undermine the Cheney camp" and that he is "encouraging the Army's senior officers to speak frankly about the overstretch of forces, and the difficulty of fighting another war." Shipman reports Gates has "forged an alliance with Mike McConnell, the national director of intelligence, and Michael Hayden, the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, to ensure that Mr. Cheney's office is not the dominant conduit of information and planning on Iran to Mr. Bush."

Every indication is that the "war about the war" is ongoing. Hersh recently reported that the attack-Iran faction has found a new approach that it hopes will be more acceptable to the public -- and presumably to the Pentagon brass. Instead of broad bombing attacks designed to eliminate Iran's nuclear capacity and promote regime change, it calls for "surgical strikes" on Revolutionary Guard facilities; they would be justified as retaliation in the "proxy war" that General Petraeus alleges Iran is fighting "against the Iraqi state and coalition forces in Iraq." According to Hersh, the revised bombing plan is "gathering support among generals and admirals in the Pentagon." But Israeli officials are concerned that such a plan might leave Iran's nuclear capacity intact.

Appeal to Principle

The appeal for military personnel to resist an attack is primarily based on principle. It asserts that any pre-emptive US attack on Iran would be illegal under international law and a crime under US law. Such an attack would violate Article II, Section 4, of the UN Charter forbidding the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. Since Iran has not attacked the United States, an attack against it without authorization by the Security Council would be a violation of international law. Under the US Constitution and the UN Charter, this is the law of the land. Under the military's own laws, armed forces have an obligation to refuse orders that violate US law and the Constitution. And under the principles established by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal after World War II, "just obeying orders" is no defense for officials who participate in war crimes.

But the petition also addresses some of the practical concerns that have clearly motivated military officers to oppose an attack on Iran. It would open US soldiers in Iraq to decimation by Iranian forces or their Iraqi allies. It would sow the seeds of hatred for generations. Like the attack on Iraq, it would create more enemies, promote terrorism and make American families less safe.

The petitioners recognize the potential risks of such action to military personnel. "If you heed our call and disobey an illegal order you could be falsely charged with crimes including treason. You could be falsely court martialed. You could be imprisoned."

But they also accept risks themselves, aware that "in violation of our First Amendment rights, we could be charged under remaining section of the unconstitutional Espionage Act or other unconstitutional statute, and that we could be fined, imprisoned, or barred from government employment."

In ordinary times, peace activists would hardly be likely to turn to the military as allies. Indeed, they would rightfully be wary of military officers acting on their own, rather than those of their civilian superiors -- in violation of the Constitution's provisions for civilian oversight of the military. But these are hardly ordinary times. While the public is highly dubious of getting into another war in the Middle East, there now appear to be virtually no institutional barriers to doing so.



Military-Civilian Alliance

Is there a basis for cooperation between the military brass and citizens who believe an attack on Iran would be criminal and/or suicidal? Perhaps. The brass can go public with the truth and ask Congress to provide a platform for explaining the real consequences of an attack on Iran. They can call for a national debate that is not manipulated by the White House. (They can also inform other players of the consequences: tell Wall Street the effects on oil and stock prices and tell European military and political leaders what it is likely to mean in terms of terrorism.) The peace movement has already forged an alliance with Iraq War veterans who oppose the war and with high military officials who oppose torture; a tacit alliance with the brass to halt an attack on Iran is a logical next step.

Such an approach puts the problem of civilian control of the military in a different light. The purpose of civilian control, after all, is not to subject the military to the dictatorial control of one man who may, at the least, express the foolishness and frailty that all flesh is heir to. The purpose is to subject the military to the control of democratic governance, which is to say of an informed public and its representatives.

What contribution can the peace movement make to this process? We can cover military officials' backs when they speak out -- no one is better placed than the peace movement to defend them against Bushite charges of defying civilian control. We can help open a forum for military officers to speak out. Many retired officers have spoken out publicly on the folly of the war in Iraq. We can use our venues in universities and communities to invite them to speak out even more forcefully on the folly of an attack on Iran. We can place ads pointing out military resistance to an attack on Iran and featuring warnings of its possible consequences from past and present military officials. And we can encourage lawmakers to reach out to military officials and offer to give them cover and a forum to speak out. Says petition initiator Marcy Winograd, "I'd like to see peace activists and soldiers sit down, break bread, march together, testify together and force a powerful union to end the next war before the bloodletting begins."

The peace movement leaders who appealed to the military had to break through the conventional presumption that the brass were their enemies in all situations. Such an unlikely alliance could be a starting point for a nonviolent response to the Bush Administration's pursuit of a permanent state of war.




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See more stories tagged with: congress, war, military, seymour hersh, joe klein, john bolton, cindy sheehan, daniel ellsberg, war on iran, peace activists, norman podhoretz, ann wright

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The coup is almost complete
Posted by: vox persona on Oct 10, 2007 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Boy emperor snuck into office under the auspices of a partisan "Supreme" Court who actually halted the determination of voter intent. Then of course Bush has the invertebrate Democrats cowering as if they recognize his extra-Constitutional authority, and the judicial branch is entirely sewn up. The "Justice" Dept. is now an ironic name. More than half the nation pray there is even another election, which remains to be seen, what with executive orders, signing statements and Republican led faulty legislation.
Our only sliver of hope if Bush goes all Dr Strangelove on us, and cancels elections due to what he deems is national "security", is for the military to not follow insane orders, such as attack Iran. Not everybody wants to bring about the Bush Armegeddon. It already is Armegeddon to the average Iraqi, think about it. We're all safe and cozy halfway around the world with our tax cuts`and SUV's, while shrub the combat avoider and Darth with his "other priorities" plot and scheme to embroil us for at least the next generation. The military are trained to take orders, let's hope they can break through their Pavlovian conditioning and recognize war crimes when they see them.
Calling all my military brothers and sisters: Now is the time for passive resistance before it is too late.

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» Perfect! Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Perfect! Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: The coup is almost complete Posted by: US Citizen
» Just a few points Posted by: BigGuy5000
» Misunderstanding is Complete Posted by: BigGuy5000
War and Peace
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 10, 2007 1:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article! Any doubt that we are now in Hitler territory should finally be erased if - or when - the First Fool and the murderous bastards who comprise the Bush Mob finally invade the (like it or not) sovereign nation of Iran. That they would even consider such an insane idea given the enormity of the holcaust they have unleashed in the country of Iraq defies logic. But then again, logic was never the hallmark of this bunch, was it?

Bush has got to know, there are a lot of high ranking people within the military who are combat veterans; men and women (but mostly men, let's be honest) who put their lives on the line decades ago. Does he honestly believe that these people would be intimidated by a pathetic little cow boy wannabe from Crawford Texas? What a silly notion!

The very fact that the peace movement and the military have forund common ground is illustrative of the extraordinary circumstances that this once great nation has found itself in. More work needs to be done, that's ofr sure. This cabal of kooks, criminals and fools plans on bringing back the draft - you can count on it. We've all got to organize and resist. We, The People could shut this country down if we needed to - AND WE WILL, GEORGE AND DICK, WE WILL!!!

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
for peace....in memory of john lennon

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» RE: War and Peace Posted by: BigGuy5000
Frighteningly Possible
Posted by: kgs1947 on Oct 10, 2007 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it strange that dictatorships are usually formed around the support of the military and in this country the dictatorship is supported by Congress and the Supreme Court! This to me is even more frightening because it says how ignorant our own citizenry is compared to those of other countries where their freedom is won through blood, torture and death...that of their own.

While the citizens of these other countries go to the streets and are beaten, jailed, tortured, and killed, our own citizens sit a football games and in bars and ignore the fact that their "president" is eroding their freedoms each day.

We have taken our own freedom for granted and that is what is forming us as a fascist state. The reality described by the novel "1984" has become a reality. And, we sit cheering on our favoriate sports team, and babble on political talk shows, and sip our beers and martinis and diet soft drinks.

It's actually pathetic.

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» kgs1947 Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: kgs1947 Posted by: cvtemptor
» RE: Hey wait a minute Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: Frighteningly Possible Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Frighteningly Possible Posted by: northforker
» Which freedoms have you lost Posted by: BigGuy5000
Forewarned Is Forearmed: Bush on Iran
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Oct 10, 2007 3:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The White House’s propaganda campaign laying the groundwork for military action against Iran dates back almost six years—to Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address in which he designated Iran as a founding member of the “axis of evil.” Since then, this drumbeat has waxed and waned as other concerns—primarily the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq—have often commanded center stage. Now, with the Bush administration approaching its final year in office, a renewed push and a shorter fuse are increasingly evident. My 3-minute YouTube video entitled “Forewarned Is Forearmed: Bush On Iran” is available HERE. It offers a very brief but deeply troubling chronicle of the president’s public warmongering and demonization of Iran. As has been said before, “the hour is getting late.”

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» Excellent Video! Posted by: Tom Degan
When lean times come,
Posted by: shangrilalad on Oct 10, 2007 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
Even after all we have seen since and experienced since 2000, three times as many Americans believe the Media is too liberal as opposed to too conservative. That’s the result of 40 years of lies repeated to the point that the average American can’t recognize or won’t accept reality when it kicks him in the face.

There comes a point in your life when you begin to question whether democracy is even possible. We do not have an informed or even a semi-informed electorate, instead the majority are lab rats conditioned to race through mazes after cheese. And that’s okay as long as most of them are well fed, but when they aren’t, things will get ugly.

The M.I.C. party running our country is belligerent and reckless to the point of suicidal. That doesn’t bother the lab rats yet, but it will when lean times come, then they’ll be coming after you.

Somebody please, military or police, secretly organize and plan ahead to control the transition from fascist dictatorship to law and order. Every other democratic institution has betrayed us. Restoring democracy might take a civil war lasting a generation.



.

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» RE: When lean times come, Posted by: robchapman
» In order to accomplish this Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» You can't honestly believe this! Posted by: BigGuy5000
» RE:BIGBOY5000 Posted by: donl51
» RE: BIGBOY5000 Posted by: BigGuy5000
The Peace Movement fosters militarism
Posted by: robchapman on Oct 10, 2007 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the most disturbing news yet from the debacle of Iraq.

One principle that even the most rabid jingo has not challenged is civilian control of the military.

Now, the peace movement is calling upon the military to usurp the civil government's role in defining foreign policy.

We may well become the first country in which the Peace Movement establishes a military junta to govern.

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Morons
Posted by: dockboy on Oct 10, 2007 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This website becomes more moronic every day. We are not going to war with Iran. The military is not going to stage a coup against Bush. We are not living in a Nazi regime (tell me where the six million slaughtered are, please!). Wishful thinking on your part does not make these true.

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» RE: Morons Posted by: robchapman
» RE: Morons Posted by: dockboy
» some parallelolells for you Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Yes, he is literally right Posted by: werewolf
» RE: Morons Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Morons Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Devious Posted by: werewolf
» 1.2 Million and Counting Posted by: Tom Degan
» No sphincter control Posted by: ray burchard
» your 6 million Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Morons Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Morons Posted by: alphaeagle
It already has...
Posted by: xi_people on Oct 10, 2007 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to more than one source, the military already has thwarted plans to bomb Iran. Remember the weird occurrence about a month ago of six (or five) nuclear bombs being flown to the base that serves as the forwarding station for materials to be sent to the Middle East? Apparently Cheney was trying to get the bombs there under the cover of darkness, but someone in the military hierarchy scuttled the plan by exposing it.

God knows how many other insane schemes have been stopped; I'm sure the general public will never find out.

The bottom line is that relying on the military in a situation like this is pure folly. Though there are no doubt many patriots in the upper ranks, so to are plenty of Bush toadies. If people are actually begging for a military takeover, they have no idea how bad things will get, and how quickly.

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» Treats and Intimidation Posted by: BigGuy5000
» Nope Posted by: BigGuy5000
If Military will take over
Posted by: Nick on Oct 10, 2007 6:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It will be still better than what we have now.
Aniway, we have a two ruling parties,
fascists and fascist collaborators.
Grate choice!

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dumbo
Posted by: downwithpatriotism on Oct 10, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone said we have the fascist [the republicans] and fascist collaborators [democrats] but we also have their hidden partner, the military. If you guys think that the military psychophants are somehow moral or honest, think again. When this war first started, the military, from Colin Powell on down, betrayed their oath of office and betrayed the american people. When they round you up, see if they care about your constitution or your rights or about right and wrong. When you are on the firing line, see if they don't obey when the seargeant hollars "Fire!. I am sure the soldiers are all going to say "Nah! This is against his constitutional rights! This is not right! They have no authority to kill this man!Right! The military is a mindless worthless criminal that needs to be stopped as much as this government. They need to be held responsible as if they were nazi soldiers of WWII whom we do still hold responsible.

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» Nope Posted by: BigGuy5000
George W is going to bomb all of Iran back to the "Stone Age"
Posted by: Nugeman on Oct 10, 2007 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And there will be no elections in 2008 as he will declare himself KING. All of us Alternet readers as well as The Nation, The Progressive and others, are going to be sent to Guantanamo Bay. Why do you think that is still open?

Liberal Democrats will be tortured. France and Germany will go back to not liking us again. Hugo Chavez will still call Bush the devil, be he will note the parallels in the way they govern. Dick Cheney will look more and more like Darth Vader, and guess who will be behind it all?


Yup.........Karl Rove.

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Civilian Control over the Military
Posted by: Urgelt on Oct 10, 2007 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, the article is certainly bold. Appropriately so; these are times which call for boldness.

But an appeal to the military to defy the President's orders won't get anywhere. You can count on the US military to advise the President frankly, then carry out his orders.

Frank advice is part of the military's conception of duty and loyalty. It is not a sign of disloyalty.

When an officer says "not on my watch," that's military speak for "I'll resign if ordered to do this." It's not military speak for "I'll forbid my command from carrying out this order." One is an action of conscience; the other is, under US law, treason.

If Congress cuts off the flow of money or passes a law forbidding a military adventure, it can frustrate the President's intentions. There are no other constraints on the President's military authority, certainly none that arise from the Pentagon. Peace activists should be focused 100% on Congress.

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running scared
Posted by: solrev on Oct 10, 2007 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can not believe some of the comments on this article. If you are not careful you will become revolutionaries. Some of you are actually talking the talk but can you walk the walk? Fortunately you will not have to because we are here. You like to call us fat happy Americans (we are the ones who vote for American Idol), but there are more of us than republicans or democrats or progressives or conservatives or liberals. You like to blame us for the lesser of two evils that you elect. We do not even vote but we might someday if it looked like someone would actually represent us. We do not vote so we do not grant the government any power over us. You talk rule of law and Bush talks rule of law. There is only one rule if a law is in your best interest obey it, if it is not in your best interest ignore it. Moses had some laws and you could count them on your fingers, one hand was between you and me and one hand was between God and me. That’s enough law to control me so none of yours ever will. However if pushing comes to shoving it is nice to know we can count on you for moral support. If you think the military will save you, you are in trouble. It is just to easy for them to find someone who will do their bidding. Have no fear because they know that if they mess with the bull they will get the horn. We part of we the people all have weapons so your democracy will survive. If necessary it will be easy to unite us low life warlords under the battle cry of nationalism. When the people you voted for stopped representing we the people you should have stopped voting. You keep trying to beat them at their game and all you do is legitimize them. One comment was interesting if Iran is invaded they can institute the draft. I was one of Uncle Sam’s raiders and if they draft, they get a lot of us. It is too easy for us to fraternize with the enemies they create because we know they are just like us, fragem if you gotem. We invaded Iraq and went to war with Islamic fundamentalists. Maybe it is time to invade Iran and suck out the real enemy, the Islamic nationalists. The third world war, globalists vs. nationalists, bringem on. Welcome to the revolution of 2012.

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» RE: running scared Posted by: leafsong1
TOO STUBBORN TO GIVE UP
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 10, 2007 8:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see Bush as a unique president in that he has nothing to lose. He doesn't have to live with the consequences of his actions. We do! He can bomb, veto, invade, but he goes home to the ranch. We have a few brave souls who see his behavior as bizarre and dangerous. Everything is on the line. Impeachment is useless and too late. His tantrum appears to be coming to an end. The grown ups are slowly taking over. Some people are not for sale. No, I'm not naive. ANNA

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» RE: TOO STUBBORN TO GIVE UP Posted by: solrev
Boosh says he's "playing" us until October
Posted by: rockpicker on Oct 10, 2007 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Waiting For The Signal

These pages that bring us together
are the fire in the cave above the stream,
no dream we move in and out of, faceless,
expendable, waiting for a burst of wings
to spill our pooled bones like coins
over the chilled and silent ground
we fell in love with so long ago,
singing the green hills homeward
under that shovel-shouldered sun.

Fatigue works grim the stone of souls.
No talk is needed to believe the bleeding
will be ours all too soon. Needled dust,
that settled itself in naive lungs, cuts
with each rasp, yet the bleeding
won't be stemmed. Quick, black tongues
flick from windows, floors below pancaking
slabs, and the Street slumps with peanuts
beside its beer, locked on the game.

In our rush of voices a stream curses
the murmur of pines. In our names,
what we begged for never to be done,
is done with no shame. And the day
drags its blindered self to toil. Night trades
whiskey pete for oil, while down slope,
death-drummer birds with blazing eyes
ascend the holy crags to kill dissent
before we waking innocent arise.

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Both parties bow to zionism
Posted by: Reader11722 on Oct 10, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democrats and Republicans (except Dr. Ron Paul) are owned by the zionists. Only Israel benefits from these endless Middle East wars. Iraq is the beginning. As we commit war-crimes in Baghdad, the US gov't commits treason at home by opening mail, eliminating habeas corpus, using the judiciary to steal private lands, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon and Wikipedia, conducting warrantless wiretaps and engaging in illegal wars on behalf of AIPAC's 'money-men'. Soon, another US false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran.. Then we'll invade Syria, then Saudi Arabia, then Lebanon (again) then ....

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Scary...
Posted by: TDesigns on Oct 10, 2007 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everything about this situation scares me and if this attack becomes a reality, I might just have to move out of this country and fast. I know I am somewhat paraniod but if this happens I feel Bush will have to call a state of emergency and then we are all screwed. Even if the military does not back him, there is Blackwater and other mercenary groups that will fight. Let's not forget KBR can house and train security forces. With all that said, my government scares me...

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» RE: Scary... Posted by: Aussie Kim
"Military" option
Posted by: willymack on Oct 10, 2007 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The military doesn't have to stage a coup or do anything resembling a takeover of our country. All they have to do is NOTHING, that is take no action if and when ordered to attack Iran or any other country. Who would georgiepoo turn to then? Blackwater? Our people? Fat chance.

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» Disobeying Orders Posted by: BigGuy5000
No
Posted by: messedup on Oct 10, 2007 12:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They got bills to pay. They are just sheep like the rest of us.

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A prediction
Posted by: vertical on Oct 10, 2007 1:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the last day of idiot's presidency there will be a crisis, and marshal law will be imposed, and Georgy Boy will appoint himsels emporer.

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» RE: A prediction Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
Calm down. Always: war and rumors of war.
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 10, 2007 6:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only one who loves war more than a politician (whose family can avoid it) is a journalist who then can write without needing to think. And feel self-righteous about it, whatever side taken.

War is all about taking sides. That's why Congress will not tip off the enemy. The logic that Congress must be in favor of such an attack, since it did not refuse to declare itself opposed to a military attack on Iran, is a mindless argument. I'm tired of little children crying "Wolf!"

I do not have an argument to prove that Iran will not be attacked. If they continue to meddle in Iraq, they very might well deserve to be attacked to defend our interests there--no, not the DefCon3 plans cited in this article; of course such plans exist; they better damned well exist, else the military should be fired.

We are not playing patty-cake there.

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Excuse me, but...
Posted by: badkitty on Oct 10, 2007 7:44 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The appeal for military personnel to resist an attack is primarily based on principle. It asserts that any pre-emptive US attack on Iran would be illegal under international law and a crime under US law. Such an attack would violate Article II, Section 4, of the UN Charter forbidding the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. Since Iran has not attacked the United States, an attack against it without authorization by the Security Council would be a violation of international law. Under the US Constitution and the UN Charter, this is the law of the land. Under the military's own laws, armed forces have an obligation to refuse orders that violate US law and the Constitution. And under the principles established by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal after World War II, "just obeying orders" is no defense for officials who participate in war crimes...

The petitioners recognize the potential risks of such action to military personnel. "If you heed our call and disobey an illegal order you could be falsely charged with crimes including treason. You could be falsely court martialed. You could be imprisoned."

Don't these same arguments apply to the war in Iraq? And we see how seriously our generals/officers/soldiers/national guard take being law abiding when it comes to Iraq. "Just obeying orders" is just okay with them. It's an illegal war and the only heroes are those who refuse to serve.

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» Excuse me, coward Posted by: BigGuy5000
Will the military halt an attack on Iran?
Posted by: may261989 on Oct 10, 2007 8:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No.

Will the Democratic congress fund this attack and subsequent war:
Easy, of course they will, they will do whatever their master George W tells them. They are spineless.

Watch bush veto the expanison of SCHIP , then watch how quickly the Dems open the cheque books up to Georgie boy when he demand more money for Iraq - no conditions on withdrawl of course just a blank cheque book , hell, I think he had it harder with the Republican controlled congress.

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Sign the Petition
Posted by: FriedenJetzt.ch on Oct 10, 2007 8:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please sign the Petition:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/iran2
to Ask Service Men and Women to Refuse Illegal Orders to Launch Aggressive War on Iran.
Thank you.
FriedenJetzt.ch

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People that give a damn about the country always win over those who rape it
Posted by: xbj on Oct 10, 2007 11:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once enough people throughout government and the military and the media and last but certainly not least, the general populace, wake up to the fact that those in the Adminstration who claim to love America the most are instead, the ones hell bent on suiciding it against the rest of the world and bankrupting it in the process, sucking it dry of freedom, wealth, and all other blessings that have existed since the beginning, the game will be over.

Yes many nefarious plans have been already thwarted; yes BushCheneyCo have been kicked in the nuts already more than once, and there's more coming. Because rabid dogs just keep coming at you until you shoot them in the heads.

And this Administration has never, from the beginning, been anything more than a handful of rabid Nazi dogs out for whatever they could suck out of America for themselves and their worthless spawn. Quite luckily, those they suckered into committing 9-11 the first time around saw the immense difference between what they were promised would be accomplished because of it, and the actual result, and "they won't get fooled again."

Because, believe it or not, some people involved actually love what America is supposed to be, the dream, and not the Nazi nightmare that's been made of it. They were conned in a different way from the rest of us, but conned nonetheless. And those good folks (angels I like to call 'em when they're high enough in the poswer/intel structure) are doing all they can to make sure this pendulum swings back to the center, asap, and never ever again gets anywhere near where we are at now.

God bless every last one of those true Patriots, from all sides, left, right, middle, and above.

Because the inmates are in charge of the asylum, and it's going to take quite a riot to get it back in the hands of people that aren't hell-bent on burning it to the ground.

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Military Brat Weighs In
Posted by: EJW on Oct 11, 2007 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wonderful discussion. As the daughter of a WWII Silver & Bronze Star awardee, Korean Conflict Special Forces and 23 year Army Officer I would always take the opinion of a career Military person over anyone when it comes to 'waging war'.

Do you realize how unheard of it is for Military personal to speak out in public against their 'chain of command'? There is a war going on in the military and the war is over the politicalization and christianiztion of the military. This is the real story - the military is being systematicly turned into Christo-fascists.

I would love to hear how many career military have resigned or retired since Dubya stole office. Probably the only way their could live with themselves and their code of honor. Watch "Judgement at Nurenburg" to understand why - it should be required viewing in every High School Government class (if they exist after NCLB).

We have turned into the 'rogue' nation.

My father (who died 25 years ago) always told me to change things from the inside and I believe that is a common feeling in the military I grew up in. BTW my father retired because of the Vietnam conflict as did others.

Are there any Military Statespeople left in service? Bush & co. has finished the decimation of our military that Reagon and his nonsence started. They are nothing more then little boys playing Risk and playing it badly. Even at 10, playing army on base, we knew the first thing you did and the most important was protect your supply lines.

Let's get politics and religion out of the military. Both are private matters and do no belong as 'loyality tests' for public service of any kind.

Pray for reason and compassion.

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» Pray for victory Posted by: BigGuy5000
on the ground....
Posted by: peridot on Oct 11, 2007 11:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the rank and file of the American army woud not delay a heartbeat to open fire on American citizens if so commanded. The military has always been the handmaiden of the ruling elite. This ruling elite will never ever, under any circumstances surrender command and control of the military.

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» RE: on the ground.... Posted by: xbj
» RE: on the ground.... Posted by: peridot
» RE: on the ground.... Posted by: xbj
» What about Hillary Posted by: BigGuy5000
» Keep dreaming Posted by: BigGuy5000
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