COMMENTS: 46
Petraeus: A Failure by His Own Standards
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Gen. Petraeus, for example, arrives with an amazing fog. There are facts in the militaristic mist all around him, that if noticed, should have even Republicans scheduling flights out of Baghdad.
Let's start with his track record.
Our basic Iraq policy has been and continues to be: "We'll stand down when they stand up." That is, when Iraq has an army and a police force that functions and can maintain order on its own.
The American occupation, run by Paul Bremer III under the aegis of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) disbanded the Iraqi army and, through de-Baathification, took apart the police. As a result, there was no security at the same time that several hundred thousand armed men of military age, with no jobs, were unleashed on the country. Chaos ensued. The occupation, though legally and ethically required to maintain order, and the only people around able to do so, decided not to. It was then that the insurgents arose, forming militias and gangs, to step into the vacuum.
The occupation set out to rebuild the Iraqi Army and Police. So they could stand up and we could stand down.
The man who was given the job was that rising star, Gen. David Petraeus.
He failed.
The Iraqi Army cannot resist the insurgency. The Iraqi police cannot keep order. Indeed, it's far worse than that. Both forces are infiltrated. Some divisions are actually filled with militia members, insurgents and gangsters, dressed up in uniforms. With access to intelligence, arms and equipment. They have engaged in murder, torture and intimidation.
How can we expect the man who failed at doing just part of the job -- training those forces -- to succeed now that he has the whole job?
Nonetheless, Petraeus has a great reputation. US News & World Report said he is "one of the most fascinating people in the United States Army. With a Ph.D. from Princeton University, he is often referred to as the military's warrior-scholar." That's pretty much how everyone talks about him.
After he was sent back to the States from Iraq, he updated the U.S. Army's counterinsurgency manual. It's a public document.
It is well-written. Both the prose and the thinking are clear. It ranges widely through time and cites a variety of sources, including Mao and Clausewitz. It's thoughtful and fairly objective. It is the perfect yardstick to evaluate what is going on Iraq and -- by using Gen. Petraeus' own standards, the U.S. military's official standard -- figure how well we can expect what we're doing to work.
Fog Fact: The counterinsurgency manual recommends a force ratio of between 20 and 25 troops per 1,000 in the population.
The math is very simple. The current estimated population of Iraq is 27,500,000.
The proper size of a counterinsurgency force is therefore a minimum of 550,000, more comfortable at 687,500.
Right now, at the peak of the surge, there are about 169,000 coalition troops (92 percent U.S.) in Iraq. That's 381,000 short of the minimum. Or 506,000 short of the more ideal ratio.
Let us emphasize that this is from a public document. It is official army doctrine. It's available on the Net. Why haven't we seen these numbers on CNN or in the New York Times? Why has no one asked Petraeus about the discrepancy between his own theory and the reality?
Alright, so we're 400,000 or so troops short of a full deck. Does that mean the war can't be "won?"
Fog Fact: How a counterinsurgency war (COIN) is won. Patreaus writes in the manual:
COIN is fought among the populace. Counterinsurgents take upon themselves responsibility for the people's well-being in all its manifestations. These include the following:
- Security from insurgent intimidation and coercion, as well as from nonpolitical violence and crime.
- Provision for basic economic needs.
- Provision of essential services, such as water, electricity, sanitation, and medical care.
- Sustainment of key social and cultural institutions.
- Other aspects that contribute to a society's basic quality of life.
Neither the Iraq government nor the occupation forces provides any of those things.
America lost those battles within weeks of winning "the war" against Saddam's troops. For a while we claimed we were fighting to win them. But the reconstruction under Paul Bremer was so botched that the quality of life in Iraq today, by these measures, is worse than when Iraq was enduring international sanctions and under the rule of Saddam.
We no longer claim to be fighting those battles, except perhaps to create security. We have abdicated, saying we've done enough for the Iraqis, now they must do it for themselves. Those goals are so obvious and so unarguably worthwhile that we have to figure that if the Iraq government could achieve them, even attempt them, it would. If it hasn't, it's because they are unable.
If they can't, and we wont, then, according to our official doctrine, we will lose the war. Or, to put it another way, the war that was lost four years ago, under Rumsfeld, Bremer and Tommy Franks, will stay lost.
Fog Fact: How a counterinsurgency war is fought. Again, from the Army's manual: The principles of COIN are well known and form the skeleton of this manual. In essence, the counterinsurgent should --
- Understand the environment in which the war is being fought.
- Isolate the insurgents from their cause and their base.
- Secure the population under the rule of law.
- Generate intelligence from the population to drive actions against the insurgents.
- Apply all elements of national power in unison to support the legitimacy of the host nation's government.
- Be prepared for a long commitment, measured in years, if not decades.
Let's start at the bottom, since that should ring some bells: "A long commitment, measured in years if not decades."
Any discussion of "winning" sooner than 2012 should be off the table. A realistic conversation has to be about staying there until 2017, or 2027, or as Bush has suggested with his comparison to Korea, a half of a century and still counting.
Back to the top.
"Understand the environment," means we have to know who we're fighting, why they're fighting, why they have support and what might make them interested in stopping.
For years we have spoken of "the insurgents" as if they're generic figures in a video game, they insurge because they're insurgents. It would do well to call them the Fakarthy Insurgents. As in "Who the fakarthy?"
Sometimes we say they're Al Qaeda. By which we mean demons who fight us because they're evil and we're good! That doesn't get us anywhere. It doesn't tell us how to deal with them and besides, most of the insurgency isn't Al Qaeda. It's just a way to wave the bloody flag for the folks at home.
Answering "Who are they?" is a necessary precursor to "isolating the insurgents" and "generating good intelligence." We haven't done the homework, so when we face the test, we must necessarily fail.
I don't doubt that the general is as brilliant as he is billed to be. Right now, I'll bet he and his team are pulling all-nighters, even after long days of fighting, trying to learn Arabic and figure who the enemy is. In a few years, or decades, they'll probably get there, too.
Counterinsurgency FM 3-24 should be required reading for every journalist covering the war, the debate over the war, and the politics of the war. It should also be required for the senators and their staffs who vote 81-0 to put Petraeus in charge of the Iraq operation, and more particularly, those senators who questioned him so ineptly when he delivered his September report.
It's realistic. It pulls the facts from the fog.
When the real facts are made visible, the whole picture changes.
Here's the real picture.
"Winning" the war in Iraq, according to the best minds our military can provide, requires decades. At least half a million pairs of boots on the ground for the next several years. When things settle down, maybe that can be cut to 200,000 or 300,000. That requires a draft. If we, and the Iraqi government, are to acquire the legitimacy that wins against insurgents, we have to live up to our promises to rebuild and to stabilize the country. Before we can do that, we have to replace our own government -- the one that gave us Paul Bremer III, Donald Rumsfeld and Michael "heck of a job, Brownie" Brown -- with one that employs competent people, who insist on getting the job done in return for the money spent.
It's not that the war in Iraq can't be "won." It's that no one, on the right, left or middle, has pulled the facts from the fog -- or read the manual -- and said, "If we want to win, this is what it costs. If you're not willing to pay the price, then you're not really talking about winning."
If we're not talking about winning, then we should be talking about how fast we can get out.
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 21, 2007 12:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They aren't nation builders, by default. They are national military destroyers, and they are incredibly qualified for that job.
Not this one. Not ever.
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» And Transcending That
Posted by: farmertx
» Don't forget, Bush campaigned AGAINST "nation building"
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 21, 2007 12:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you want to know just what the difference between right wingers and progressives is?
The right winger loves America for her body. The progressive loves America for her mind.
That's it in a nut shell.
If there is still a doubt among thinking Americans what a dreadful mistake the invasion of Iraq was, the events of the last week should erase all of them. It doesn't make me happy to have to come out and ridicule General Dave. He is, after all, sort of a home boy of mine - having grown up in the small town of Cornwall, NY, fifteen miles from me. We even have mutual acquaintences. People have told me what a decent guy he is. Fine. I'm sure he is. But the only reason he is in the position he's in is due to the fact that he is the officer that this disgusting administration was finally able to come up with who would sign off on the stupidity of the First Fool's insane, perverted world view. How many others resigned before him? He isn't a visionary; he's a "yes" man.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» Decent is as decent does
Posted by: fearless flower
» RE: Decent is as decent does
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: I Hear The Fat Lady Singing
Posted by: rocketman
» Thank you, rocketman...
Posted by: Tom Degan
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Posted by: vox persona on Sep 21, 2007 12:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» '06?
Posted by: vox persona
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Posted by: Lector on Sep 21, 2007 12:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an afterthought, the grab for more oil and hegemony in the Middle East might have worked better had the US allied itself properly with Middle Eastern countries and Iraq, instead of attacking it. The neoconservative group behind the New American Century idea was the worst thing that ever could have happened, and the 9/11 event was the perfect gift from heaven for them to spread fear on an unwitting population brainwashed by decades under our fairly corrupt political system run by corporations.
Robert Lightfoot
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Posted by: metamind on Sep 21, 2007 1:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
here
or
here
We have a huge education task ahead of us. We need to first teach the Constitution and second teach responsibility for the consciousness of our elected representatives. I'm talking about the STATE level as well as the NATIONAL level.
How is it that Nancy Pelosi thinks it is her decision as to whether Bush is impeached? We should take responsibility for raising her consciousness about her DUTY to the Constitution.
Impeachment isn't a game; it isn't a goal; it's the right thing to do when "high crimes" have been committed. There is no higher crime than aggressive warfare for private profit.
Nancy Pelosi's oath is to the Constitution, not the Democratic party. So it is with all of them. We need to raise their consciousness so they appreciate what it means to take an oath. You are "cursing yourself" if you fail to honor it.
Get it right, Nancy. You SERVE the people by HONORING the
Constitution.
The problem is the Congress. The solution is an Article V convention.
Steve Moyer
http://stevemoyer.us
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Posted by: 25ghostcommander on Sep 21, 2007 7:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» We stay because
Posted by: fearn
» Why Do We Stay? To Avenge Mandella's Death.
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Bush's brain was pickled in alcohol
Posted by: Lloyd Drako
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 21, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CatDad on Sep 21, 2007 7:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petraeus is nothing but a front man that Bush and the Neocon-artists are hiding behind...they need him because they've maxed-out on their bogus "benchmarks" and now all they can do is hide behind military figures and scream 1968-era "we can't cut and run" slogans. It's pointless calling Petraeus a failure....The Neocons know exactly what they are doing and they don't want the American masses to understand that what is actually happening in Iraq IS our real policy..Unfortunately, their policy of "creative destruction" is succeeding.
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» RE: Perhaps Failure IS Our REAL Policy...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Powell was a sell-out long before
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» Perhaps?
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: The Big Raven on Sep 21, 2007 8:16 AM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 21, 2007 10:01 AM
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If we are ever to regain our true standing as a People and Country we must totally change the system!! We must reclaim our position as the leadership of the nation. We should recognize there are 300 million presidents here. You are a Leader. So is your neighbor,and theirs,all across the country. We the People want the trops home,want doctrines of non-aggression with all other countries, need Healthcare and have to have the environment repaired. We're not going to get it from anyone who is in office now. There will be no end to wars as long as we let fools with stars that back a failed policy as if it were gospel,continue to operate.
It's time to shitcan the Joint Chiefs,the Executive Branch,and the Congress. It's time to use concensus in our councils,not the two thirds bullshit we use now. If that were true, the last two elections would have been a bust because an election is a political action carried out by the people.Less than half the eligible vote. There was no quarum,no two thirds,no real victory for anyone except the Wealthy fools that have bought the government.
We have to take back our country,there's only one way to get the power back to the people......
DRAFT JEFFREY7 FOR PREZ
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7
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Posted by: Patriot76 on Sep 21, 2007 10:44 AM
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Posted by: rtmyth on Sep 21, 2007 11:03 AM
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Posted by: scorpioeagle1950 on Sep 21, 2007 11:39 AM
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» You had me until you cited the priest/exorcist
Posted by: JackieGiles
» WE did not put him in power - it was a long time coming.
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: WE did not put him in power - it was a long time coming.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» and those of us who played by the rules are damned as well, according to you
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: TZ on Sep 21, 2007 11:53 AM
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Posted by: CJC on Sep 21, 2007 12:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Before the war....Iraq's capital was one of the world's safest cities.
Few police officers patrolled the streets....Most Iraqi police officers, as I would later learn, often spent all day in their stations. They went out on the rare occasion that someone reported a crime. If investigative work or an interrogation was needed, one of Saddam's intelligence services took over....
When the experts [law enforcement experts sent by the Justice Dept] arrived in mid-May [2003] it was too dangerous for them to drive after sundown....The Iraqi police were almost nonexistent....It didn't take long for the experts to conclude that more than 6,600 foreign police advisers should be sent to Iraq immediately. The White House dispatched just one: Bernie Kerik." Kerik stayed in Baghdad for 3 months.
Chandrasekaran, "Imperial Life in the Emerald City," p 83-4.
As with many U. S. failures in Iraq "the fish stinks from the head." Unnamed parties in the White House and/or Defense Department had no interest in training the police.
Petraeus was commander of 101st Airborne in Mosul 2003-4.
According to the account by Thomas Ricks in "Fiasco" Petraeus was modestly successful in Mosul.
"But the city would encounter far more trouble after the 101st went home in the spring of 2004...." p 232
Why Petraeus has been a Bush "enabler", as Krugman calls them, and agreed to pull his punches and get dragged down in the Bush muck is for others to analyze.
Possibilities include
1. He is not as competent as he has been billed to be.
2. He is ambitious, wants to run for president one day, according to some.
3. He is drinking the Bush Kool Aid.
In any case, it sounds like there were no real Iraqi police to be trained or retrained and we never seriously tried anyway.
Sorry sorry sorry tales for the U. S. and for the long-suffering population of Iraq.
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» RE: More facts, also foggy perhaps
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: dajson on Sep 21, 2007 3:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: surfreality on Sep 21, 2007 3:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) A permanent republican majority
2) US control of Iraqi Oil
In order to do #1; they needed to #2 on the cheap with no national sacrifice. No draft. no tax increases ( the rich got massive tax cuts ) no expensive mandates on industry to protect the nation's infrastructure, no energy policy to wean us off of fossil fuels.
(Remember Gen Shinseki? Evidently HE read Gen. Patraeus' counterinsurgency manual and he got fired for quoting it.)
Instead we sent in too few under equipped troops; who none the less blitzkrieged Iraq in about a week.
But when it came time to properly outfit the occupation forces the money was not spent. When it came time to secure proper long term care for the wounded the money was not spent. When it came time to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure the money was not spent.
They would not spend the money because their number 1 goal; the goal that super-cedes all other goals ( including protecting the constitution and providing for the common defense), that number 1 goal is a permanent republican majority. And the neocons believed that their number 1 goal demanded a sacrifice free war. We were told to go shopping.
As a nation we have yet to be called on to fight the war on terror. This was never about 9/11. Instead, Bush saw what he thought was an opportunity to get a gas station on the cheap.
.
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» One Issue....
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Sep 21, 2007 3:56 PM
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Being brilliant doesn't prevent Betrayus from being a political hack. I recommend that anybody who doubts that he is actually read the Moveon! ad and follow the links.
A General who is willing to promote a policy that needlessly wounds, kills and endangers troops and has no hope of success by the standards he himself has set in support of a corrupt administration, perjuring himself in the process (violence is DOWN?) is a traitor to the troops and the country at large.
This man is loyal to the Republicans, not the troops, not the country. He should be tried for treason.
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Posted by: ronr327 on Sep 21, 2007 4:12 PM
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The administration, and the testimony of General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker, cleave to the idea civil order must be achieved before political reconciliation will occur. In Iraq, at this time, that will require a force willing and able to fight and die to hold civil peace/civil order in place for a reconciled, and (theoretically) united Iraqi government.
General Jones and his commission see things in a critically different light. The concluding paragraph of the Jones report contains this:
“At the end of the day, however, the future of Iraq and the prospects for establishing a professional, effective, and loyal military and police service, hinges on the ability of the Iraqi people and the government to begin the process of achieving national reconciliation and to ending sectarian violence.”
Jones elsewhere has repeatedly affirmed that preparation of the Iraqi security forces can proceed only so far without political reconciliation. In order to get those security forces to where they have to be, substantive political resolution must be achieved.
This brings us to Catch 22.
Mere political reconciliation is not enough. What the Iraqi people will have to see is a couple of years, at a minimum, where the political reconciliation holds, and is equitably providing a decent life for Iraqis.
Then, and only then, is there any likelihood that the Iraqi security forces will be able to find enough young men who are willing to fight and die for this ‘new’ Iraq.
You can’t get the security forces you need with out enduring political reconciliation, and you can’t establish any enduring reality without those forces.
In other words, you can’t get there from here.
Catch 22
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» Finally, succinct clarity. So what is congress debating for?
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: umrayya on Sep 21, 2007 4:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petraeus has political ambitions - very high ones, as in he wants to be president. Everything he does has to be seen as promoting that agenda.
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Posted by: newtype_alpha on Sep 21, 2007 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then let's be dangerous. Petraeus is a traitor to the American People. Anyone who knowingly provides weapon and money to America's enemies is a traitor. Anyone who uses American tax dollars to instigate a civil war is a traitor. Anyone who intentionally misleads the American people so as to cause harm to our soldiers, or national interest, our public safety, is a traitor. Petraeus is a traitor for the same reason George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are traitors: they have knowingly and intentionally acted against the wishes and the best interests of the American people, violated American law, and through their actions endangered us all.
I hold that Petraeus is a traitor in the company of traitors. He is not merely incompetent, he is not merely dishonest, he has intentionally taken actions that have compromised the integrity of this nation.
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Posted by: Ex-Marine on Sep 21, 2007 9:30 PM
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Posted by: eosrk on Sep 23, 2007 6:54 AM
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the famous Bob Dylan song.
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Posted by: frank69 on Sep 25, 2007 8:07 AM
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Posted by: Livemike on Sep 28, 2007 1:38 AM
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However he annonced the location of his counterinsurgency offensive weeks before it happened thus ensuring it's abject failure. For this a soldier should be taken out and shot as the traitor he is. And then to claim it suceeded! What a laugh! The insurgents were out of his way before he hit Bagdad airport.
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Posted by: Irap14 on Oct 4, 2007 5:12 AM
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 21, 2007 12:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They aren't nation builders, by default. They are national military destroyers, and they are incredibly qualified for that job.
Not this one. Not ever.
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» And Transcending That
Posted by: farmertx
» Don't forget, Bush campaigned AGAINST "nation building"
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 21, 2007 12:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you want to know just what the difference between right wingers and progressives is?
The right winger loves America for her body. The progressive loves America for her mind.
That's it in a nut shell.
If there is still a doubt among thinking Americans what a dreadful mistake the invasion of Iraq was, the events of the last week should erase all of them. It doesn't make me happy to have to come out and ridicule General Dave. He is, after all, sort of a home boy of mine - having grown up in the small town of Cornwall, NY, fifteen miles from me. We even have mutual acquaintences. People have told me what a decent guy he is. Fine. I'm sure he is. But the only reason he is in the position he's in is due to the fact that he is the officer that this disgusting administration was finally able to come up with who would sign off on the stupidity of the First Fool's insane, perverted world view. How many others resigned before him? He isn't a visionary; he's a "yes" man.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» Decent is as decent does
Posted by: fearless flower
» RE: Decent is as decent does
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: I Hear The Fat Lady Singing
Posted by: rocketman
» Thank you, rocketman...
Posted by: Tom Degan
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Posted by: vox persona on Sep 21, 2007 12:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» '06?
Posted by: vox persona
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Posted by: Lector on Sep 21, 2007 12:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an afterthought, the grab for more oil and hegemony in the Middle East might have worked better had the US allied itself properly with Middle Eastern countries and Iraq, instead of attacking it. The neoconservative group behind the New American Century idea was the worst thing that ever could have happened, and the 9/11 event was the perfect gift from heaven for them to spread fear on an unwitting population brainwashed by decades under our fairly corrupt political system run by corporations.
Robert Lightfoot
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Posted by: metamind on Sep 21, 2007 1:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
here
or
here
We have a huge education task ahead of us. We need to first teach the Constitution and second teach responsibility for the consciousness of our elected representatives. I'm talking about the STATE level as well as the NATIONAL level.
How is it that Nancy Pelosi thinks it is her decision as to whether Bush is impeached? We should take responsibility for raising her consciousness about her DUTY to the Constitution.
Impeachment isn't a game; it isn't a goal; it's the right thing to do when "high crimes" have been committed. There is no higher crime than aggressive warfare for private profit.
Nancy Pelosi's oath is to the Constitution, not the Democratic party. So it is with all of them. We need to raise their consciousness so they appreciate what it means to take an oath. You are "cursing yourself" if you fail to honor it.
Get it right, Nancy. You SERVE the people by HONORING the
Constitution.
The problem is the Congress. The solution is an Article V convention.
Steve Moyer
http://stevemoyer.us
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Posted by: 25ghostcommander on Sep 21, 2007 7:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» We stay because
Posted by: fearn
» Why Do We Stay? To Avenge Mandella's Death.
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Bush's brain was pickled in alcohol
Posted by: Lloyd Drako
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 21, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CatDad on Sep 21, 2007 7:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petraeus is nothing but a front man that Bush and the Neocon-artists are hiding behind...they need him because they've maxed-out on their bogus "benchmarks" and now all they can do is hide behind military figures and scream 1968-era "we can't cut and run" slogans. It's pointless calling Petraeus a failure....The Neocons know exactly what they are doing and they don't want the American masses to understand that what is actually happening in Iraq IS our real policy..Unfortunately, their policy of "creative destruction" is succeeding.
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» RE: Perhaps Failure IS Our REAL Policy...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Powell was a sell-out long before
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» Perhaps?
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: The Big Raven on Sep 21, 2007 8:16 AM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 21, 2007 10:01 AM
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If we are ever to regain our true standing as a People and Country we must totally change the system!! We must reclaim our position as the leadership of the nation. We should recognize there are 300 million presidents here. You are a Leader. So is your neighbor,and theirs,all across the country. We the People want the trops home,want doctrines of non-aggression with all other countries, need Healthcare and have to have the environment repaired. We're not going to get it from anyone who is in office now. There will be no end to wars as long as we let fools with stars that back a failed policy as if it were gospel,continue to operate.
It's time to shitcan the Joint Chiefs,the Executive Branch,and the Congress. It's time to use concensus in our councils,not the two thirds bullshit we use now. If that were true, the last two elections would have been a bust because an election is a political action carried out by the people.Less than half the eligible vote. There was no quarum,no two thirds,no real victory for anyone except the Wealthy fools that have bought the government.
We have to take back our country,there's only one way to get the power back to the people......
DRAFT JEFFREY7 FOR PREZ
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7
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Posted by: Patriot76 on Sep 21, 2007 10:44 AM
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Posted by: rtmyth on Sep 21, 2007 11:03 AM
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Posted by: scorpioeagle1950 on Sep 21, 2007 11:39 AM
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» You had me until you cited the priest/exorcist
Posted by: JackieGiles
» WE did not put him in power - it was a long time coming.
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: WE did not put him in power - it was a long time coming.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» and those of us who played by the rules are damned as well, according to you
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
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Posted by: TZ on Sep 21, 2007 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CJC on Sep 21, 2007 12:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Before the war....Iraq's capital was one of the world's safest cities.
Few police officers patrolled the streets....Most Iraqi police officers, as I would later learn, often spent all day in their stations. They went out on the rare occasion that someone reported a crime. If investigative work or an interrogation was needed, one of Saddam's intelligence services took over....
When the experts [law enforcement experts sent by the Justice Dept] arrived in mid-May [2003] it was too dangerous for them to drive after sundown....The Iraqi police were almost nonexistent....It didn't take long for the experts to conclude that more than 6,600 foreign police advisers should be sent to Iraq immediately. The White House dispatched just one: Bernie Kerik." Kerik stayed in Baghdad for 3 months.
Chandrasekaran, "Imperial Life in the Emerald City," p 83-4.
As with many U. S. failures in Iraq "the fish stinks from the head." Unnamed parties in the White House and/or Defense Department had no interest in training the police.
Petraeus was commander of 101st Airborne in Mosul 2003-4.
According to the account by Thomas Ricks in "Fiasco" Petraeus was modestly successful in Mosul.
"But the city would encounter far more trouble after the 101st went home in the spring of 2004...." p 232
Why Petraeus has been a Bush "enabler", as Krugman calls them, and agreed to pull his punches and get dragged down in the Bush muck is for others to analyze.
Possibilities include
1. He is not as competent as he has been billed to be.
2. He is ambitious, wants to run for president one day, according to some.
3. He is drinking the Bush Kool Aid.
In any case, it sounds like there were no real Iraqi police to be trained or retrained and we never seriously tried anyway.
Sorry sorry sorry tales for the U. S. and for the long-suffering population of Iraq.
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» RE: More facts, also foggy perhaps
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: dajson on Sep 21, 2007 3:38 PM
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Posted by: surfreality on Sep 21, 2007 3:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) A permanent republican majority
2) US control of Iraqi Oil
In order to do #1; they needed to #2 on the cheap with no national sacrifice. No draft. no tax increases ( the rich got massive tax cuts ) no expensive mandates on industry to protect the nation's infrastructure, no energy policy to wean us off of fossil fuels.
(Remember Gen Shinseki? Evidently HE read Gen. Patraeus' counterinsurgency manual and he got fired for quoting it.)
Instead we sent in too few under equipped troops; who none the less blitzkrieged Iraq in about a week.
But when it came time to properly outfit the occupation forces the money was not spent. When it came time to secure proper long term care for the wounded the money was not spent. When it came time to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure the money was not spent.
They would not spend the money because their number 1 goal; the goal that super-cedes all other goals ( including protecting the constitution and providing for the common defense), that number 1 goal is a permanent republican majority. And the neocons believed that their number 1 goal demanded a sacrifice free war. We were told to go shopping.
As a nation we have yet to be called on to fight the war on terror. This was never about 9/11. Instead, Bush saw what he thought was an opportunity to get a gas station on the cheap.
.
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» One Issue....
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Sep 21, 2007 3:56 PM
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Being brilliant doesn't prevent Betrayus from being a political hack. I recommend that anybody who doubts that he is actually read the Moveon! ad and follow the links.
A General who is willing to promote a policy that needlessly wounds, kills and endangers troops and has no hope of success by the standards he himself has set in support of a corrupt administration, perjuring himself in the process (violence is DOWN?) is a traitor to the troops and the country at large.
This man is loyal to the Republicans, not the troops, not the country. He should be tried for treason.
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Posted by: ronr327 on Sep 21, 2007 4:12 PM
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The administration, and the testimony of General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker, cleave to the idea civil order must be achieved before political reconciliation will occur. In Iraq, at this time, that will require a force willing and able to fight and die to hold civil peace/civil order in place for a reconciled, and (theoretically) united Iraqi government.
General Jones and his commission see things in a critically different light. The concluding paragraph of the Jones report contains this:
“At the end of the day, however, the future of Iraq and the prospects for establishing a professional, effective, and loyal military and police service, hinges on the ability of the Iraqi people and the government to begin the process of achieving national reconciliation and to ending sectarian violence.”
Jones elsewhere has repeatedly affirmed that preparation of the Iraqi security forces can proceed only so far without political reconciliation. In order to get those security forces to where they have to be, substantive political resolution must be achieved.
This brings us to Catch 22.
Mere political reconciliation is not enough. What the Iraqi people will have to see is a couple of years, at a minimum, where the political reconciliation holds, and is equitably providing a decent life for Iraqis.
Then, and only then, is there any likelihood that the Iraqi security forces will be able to find enough young men who are willing to fight and die for this ‘new’ Iraq.
You can’t get the security forces you need with out enduring political reconciliation, and you can’t establish any enduring reality without those forces.
In other words, you can’t get there from here.
Catch 22
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» Finally, succinct clarity. So what is congress debating for?
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: umrayya on Sep 21, 2007 4:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petraeus has political ambitions - very high ones, as in he wants to be president. Everything he does has to be seen as promoting that agenda.
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Posted by: newtype_alpha on Sep 21, 2007 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then let's be dangerous. Petraeus is a traitor to the American People. Anyone who knowingly provides weapon and money to America's enemies is a traitor. Anyone who uses American tax dollars to instigate a civil war is a traitor. Anyone who intentionally misleads the American people so as to cause harm to our soldiers, or national interest, our public safety, is a traitor. Petraeus is a traitor for the same reason George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are traitors: they have knowingly and intentionally acted against the wishes and the best interests of the American people, violated American law, and through their actions endangered us all.
I hold that Petraeus is a traitor in the company of traitors. He is not merely incompetent, he is not merely dishonest, he has intentionally taken actions that have compromised the integrity of this nation.
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Posted by: Ex-Marine on Sep 21, 2007 9:30 PM
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Posted by: eosrk on Sep 23, 2007 6:54 AM
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the famous Bob Dylan song.
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Posted by: frank69 on Sep 25, 2007 8:07 AM
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Posted by: Livemike on Sep 28, 2007 1:38 AM
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However he annonced the location of his counterinsurgency offensive weeks before it happened thus ensuring it's abject failure. For this a soldier should be taken out and shot as the traitor he is. And then to claim it suceeded! What a laugh! The insurgents were out of his way before he hit Bagdad airport.
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Posted by: Irap14 on Oct 4, 2007 5:12 AM
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