COMMENTS: 46
U.S. Secret Air War Pulverizes Afghanistan and Iraq
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The killers were robots, General Atomics MQ-1 Predators. The AGM-114 Hellfire missiles they used in the attack were directed from a base deep in the southern Nevada desert.
It was not the first time Predators had struck. The previous year a CIA Predator took a shot at al-Qaeda's number two man, Ayman al-Zawahiri, but missed. The missile, however, killed 18 people. According to the Asia Times piece, at least one other suspected al-Qaeda member was assassinated by a Predator in Pakistan's northern frontier area, and in 2002 a Predator killed six "suspected al-Qaeda" members in Yemen.
These assaults are part of what may be the best kept secret of the Iraq-Afghanistan conflicts: an enormous intensification of US bombardments in these and other countries in the region, the increasing number of civilian casualties such a strategy entails, and the growing role of pilot-less killers in the conflict.
According to Associated Press, there has been a five-fold increase in the number of bombs dropped on Iraq during the first six months of 2007 over the same period in 2006. More than 30 tons of those have been cluster weapons, which take an especially heavy toll on civilians.
The U.S. Navy has added an aircraft carrier to its Persian Gulf force, and the Air Force has moved F-16s into Balad air base north of Baghdad.
Balad, which currently conducts 10,000 air operations a week, is strengthening runways to handle the increase in air activity. Col. David Reynolds told the AP, "We would like to get to be a field like Langley, if you will." The Langley field in Virginia is one of the Air Force's biggest and most sophisticated airfields.
The Air Force certainly appears to be settling in for a long war. "Until we can determine that the Iraqis have got their air force to significant capability," says Lt Gen. Gary North, the regional air commander, "I think the coalition will be here to support that effort."
The Iraqi air force is virtually non-existent. It has no combat aircraft and only a handful of transports.
Improving the runways has allowed the Air Force to move B1-B bombers from Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to Balad, where the big aircraft have been carrying out daily strikes. A B1-B can carry up to 24 tons of bombs.
The step-up in air attacks is partly a reflection of how beaten up and overextended U.S. ground troops are. While Army units put in 15-month tours, Air Force deployments are only four months, with some only half that. And Iraqi and Afghani insurgents have virtually no ability to inflict casualties on aircraft flying at 20,000 feet and using laser and satellite-guided weapons, in contrast to the serious damage they are doing to US ground troops.
Besides increasing the number of F-16s, B1-Bs, and A-10 attack planes, Predator flight hours over both countries have doubled from 2005. "The Predator is coming into its own as a no-kidding weapon verses a reconnaissance-only platform," brags Maj. Jon Dagley, commander of the 46th Expeditionary Reconnaissance Squadron.
The Air Force is also deploying a bigger, faster and more muscular version of the Predator, the MQ-9 "Reaper" -- as in grim -- a robot capable of carrying four Hellfire missiles, plus two 500 lb. bombs.
The Predators and the Reapers have several advantages, the most obvious being they don't need pilots. "With more Reapers I could send manned airplanes home," says North.
At $8.5 million an aircraft -- the smaller Predator comes in at $4.5 million apiece -- they are also considerably cheaper than the F-16 ($19 million) the B1-B ($200+ million) and even the A-10 ($9.8 million).
The Air Force plans to deploy 170 Predators and 70 Reapers over the next three years. "It is possible that in our lifetime we will be able to run a war without ever leaving the US," Lt Col David Branham told the New York Times.
The result of the stepped up air war, according to the London-based organization Iraq Body Count, is an increase in civilian casualties. A Lancet study of "excess deaths" caused by the Iraq war found that air attacks were responsible for 13% of the deaths -- 76,000 as of June 2006 -- and that 50% of the deaths of children under 15 were caused by air strikes.
The number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan from air strikes has created a rift between the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the United States.
"A senior British commander," according to the New York Times, has pressed U.S. Special Forces (SF) to leave southern Afghanistan because their use of air power was alienating the local people. SFs work in small teams and are dependent on air power for support.
SFs called in an air strike last November near Kandahar that killed 31 nomads. This past April, a similar air strike in Western Afghanistan killed 57 villagers, half of them women and children. Coalition forces are now killing more Afghan civilians than the Taliban are. The escalating death toll has thrown the government of Hamid Karzai into a crisis and the NATO governments into turmoil. "We need to understand that preventing civilian casualties is crucially important in sustaining the support of the population," British Defense Minister Des Browne told the Financial Times.
It has also opened up the allies to the charge of war crimes. In a recent air attack in southern Afghanistan that killed 25 civilians, NATO spokesman Lt. Col Mike Smith said the Taliban were responsible because they were hiding among the civilian population.
But Article 48 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states: "The Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants." Article 50 dictates that "The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilian does not deprive the population of its civilian character."
The stepped-up air war in both countries has less to do with a strategic military decision than the reality that the occupations are coming apart at the seams.
For all intents and purposes, the U.S. Army in Iraq is broken, the victim of multiple tours, inadequate forces, and the kind of war Iraq has become: a conflict of shadows, low-tech but highly effective roadside bombs, and a population which is either hostile to the occupation or at least sympathetic to the resistance.
It is much the same in Afghanistan. Lord Inge, the former British chief of staff, recently said, "The situation in Afghanistan is much worse than many people recognize...it is much more serious that people want to recognize." A well-placed military source told the Observer, "If you talk privately to the generals, they are very worried." Faced with defeat or bloody stalemate on the ground, the allies have turned to air power, much as the U.S. did in Vietnam. But, as in Vietnam, the terrible toll bombing inflicts on civilians all but guarantees long-term failure.
"Far from bringing about the intended softening up of the opposition," Phillip Gordon, a Brookings Institute Fellow, told the Asia Times, "bombing tends to rally people behind their leaders and cause them to dig in against outsiders who, whatever the justification, are destroying their homeland."
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Posted by: hayduke1 on Sep 15, 2007 1:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That coupled with a new-found "pre-emptive" ideal means no one in the world is safe from the greedy fingers of our corporate machine.
Somehow, we must get this government back from the traitors who have used and abused our system to such a point that we as a country have ignored the devil that attacked us for a devil that had oil.
NO MORE SQUANDERING THE WEALTH OF OUR CHILDREN FOR THIS ILLEGAL/IMMORAL INVASION/OCCUPATION OF A SOVERIGN NATION!
WE MUST REDEEM THE IDEA OF "THE COMMON GOOD"....before it's too late....
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» RE: exporting war?
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: exporting war?
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: exporting war?
Posted by: jimmyaj
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Posted by: vox persona on Sep 15, 2007 1:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Say, wasn't it the Afghan resistance fighters we armed in their resistance to the Soviets that brought us the Taliban? What were they called, the Majahadeen? How much blowback do we need in our face to learn that violence only begets more violence. Now we seem to be arming both sides in Iraq's 'civil' war. Bush single-handedly changed this world....rarely does one individual have that kind of effect on the Gestalt and zeitgeist.
Question for Christian armchair 'warriors': If God is Love, and Christ taught peace, what does that make war, especially 'preemptive war'? Wouldn't that be antiChrist-ian?
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» RE: Nice
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Nice
Posted by: dmaciewski
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Posted by: TT5 on Sep 15, 2007 1:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Beagle17 on Sep 15, 2007 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(in NYTimes) http://www.gnn.tv/H15230
Reminder: Iraq has never attacked the United States. Nor has Afghanistan. The attack of 9/11 has never been conclusively linked to Al-qaida or Bin Ladin. It was a criminal act, not an act of war. They rewrote the dictionary, as they are so fond of doing.
I don't think America can ever regain moral credibility in this world. It is far and away the world's biggest rogue stae or terrorist state or whatever. All those US politicians who claim to believe in Jesus and so forth are clearly liars. Jesus was a pacifist who would have just as soon seen God smite those who do such things.
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» RE: Another well-kept secret
Posted by: Tom Degan
» "They rewrote the dictionary, as they are so fond of doing."
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Another well-kept secret
Posted by: badkitty
» I just want to emphasize one thing you said
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Democritus on Sep 15, 2007 4:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This air war is also unproductive of its mission to pacify a population. Hitler learned this when his blitz over England simply stiffened the resolve of the British. Our politicians and generals seem to learn nothing from history. They tried it in Vietnam and Cambodia, and it didn't work. It will not work in Iraq and Afghanistan, either.
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» RE: Both immoral and unproductive
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Both immoral and unproductive
Posted by: Democritus
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 15, 2007 4:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dwight D. Eisenhoer
Fairwell Address to the nation
17 January 1961
The military industrial complex that Ike spoke so presciently about forty-seven years ago this January should be permanently shut down. It has not only looted the economy of a country that has the potential to be the greatest place in the world in which to live (Dirty little secret: It's not) but it has also tuned this fragile planet into a powder keg. The United Nations - for the sake of life on this planet - has got to put the merchants of death out of business not only in this country but across the globe. Why is it that this manner of dialogue is always dismissed as the ramblings of a fool and a fanatic? Why is if that so many people who profess to be "Christian" would tolerate a situation that utterly flies in the face of the words of Jesus Christ in the Sermon on the Mount:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called 'sons of God'".
From the Gospel according to Matthew
From this day forth, I will no longer "support our troops". If "supporting" them means encouraging the murderous agenda of the Bush regime, then count me out brother or sister! I just want them to come home, safe and sound. I don't want them to kill or be killed any longer. I don't want them to have to deal with lost limbs or wasted lives anymore. Anyone who seriously believes that the war on Iraq is going to have a happy ending and that the USA will emerge from the carnage victorious has been watching too much FOX News (BREAKING NEWS: They've been lying to you from day one).
This war is over. This war is lost. Get used to the idea. Come to terms with it. Stop being in denial - GET A GRIP, FOLKS! The almost four thousand American kids who have lost their lives in this hideous atrocity (Not to mention a million or more Iraqi men, women and little children) have died for nothing. This obscene situation came about only because a handful of GOP-connected corporations wanted to loot a country that is in possession of the second or third largest oil reserves on the planet. Is that an "un-American" thing to say? Quite frankly, I could not care less if I tried. I refuse to be a "good German", thank you very much. Just call me a citizen of the good ol' planet Earth.
I was just curious: Is there anyone out there who still believes that sending this disgusting, half-witted little thug to the White House was a good idea? Anyone? Anyone??
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: Shut It Down
Posted by: nonaste
» RE: Shut It Down
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Shut It Down
Posted by: fearless flower
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Posted by: chuff8 on Sep 15, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fearn on Sep 15, 2007 9:02 AM
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» RE: Acceptable
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Acceptable - Because we believe we are on the right side
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Acceptable
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Acceptable
Posted by: Maryanne
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 15, 2007 9:43 AM
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1969: "Nixon Begins Secret Bombing of Cambodia
In an effort to destroy Communist supply routes and base camps in Cambodia, President Nixon gives the go-ahead to "Operation Breakfast." The covert bombing of Cambodia, conducted without the knowledge of Congress or the American public, will continue for fourteen months."
1973: "Hearings on Secret Bombings Begin
The Senate Armed Services Committee opens hearing on the U.S. bombing of Cambodia. Allegations are made that the Nixon administration allowed bombing raids to be carried out during what was supposed to be a time when Cambodia's neutrality was officially recognized."
1974: "Report Cites Damage to Vietnam Ecology
According to a report issued by the National Academy of Science, use of chemical herbicides during the war has caused long-term damage to the ecology of Vietnam. Subsequent inquiries will focus on the connection between certain herbicides, particularly Agent Orange, and widespread reports of cancer, skin disease, and other disorders in individuals exposed to them."
1974: "Nixon Impeachment Hearings Begin
In May, the House Judiciary Committee begins impeachment hearings against President Richard Nixon. Among the articles of impeachment is a resolution condemning Nixon for the secret bombing of Cambodia."
A few dissimilar points: in place of Agent Orange in Vietnam, we have Depleted Uranium in Iraq and Afghanistan. We also have a gutless House that refuses to bring up impeachment charges against Bush, largely because they're afraid of the corporate media response. The corporate media, rather than showing images of the war abroad, instead focuses exclusively on the propaganda-laced speeches of Petraeus and other Bush apparatchiks. Hmm... what other historical period comes to mind?
1944: "Yes, things should be even better! Everyone should be able to work without worrying. All should be able to afford to travel, to fill their homes with beautiful things, and to fulfill their heart's desires, both large and small.
That is what Germany wants! For itself and for all the countries in Europe of good will. Together, we will work to secure and raise the standard of living!
That is what Germany is fighting for. And only a German victory will realize the goal of a European economic community."
I'd say the main difference between the Vietnam era and the present in the US is the vastly increased consolidation of the corporate media, and the coordination of media messages.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 15, 2007 11:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Losing Armies Often Resort to Atrocities.....somewhat offended..
Posted by: Captainmagic
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Posted by: Mr. Terrific on Sep 15, 2007 1:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He defends the U.S. military against claims of causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. He states that it is simply a LIE, that the U.S. military intentionally targets civilians. He claims that the now close to 1 MILLION deaths in Iraqi, have mostly been caused by Iraqis killing each other, and not the U.S. military. He does agree that the U.S. military is indirectly involved in their deaths, due to its intervention in their country. However he believes, the U.S. military can not claim sole responsiblity for their deaths.
He has used the term "collateral damage" on more than one occasion when referencing the Iraqi war's civilian death total. As I look at the amount of technology created by the U.S. military industrial complex, and see the absolute horror of their creations, I can only wonder what will happen when allied nations begin to bomb our country and our most precious ally Israel, with Depleted Uranium, or use experimental weapons, and fly drones in our air space and the like. How many of our civilians and Israel's, will be killed due to "collateral damage." Will our media have excited little Fox News people posing counter arguments against U.S. civilian and Israeli "insurgents?" I doubt it. Why if allied nations attacked us and our little precious ally, we would simply be "defending" ourselves in the eyes of our mass media.
Yet eventually, if this country keeps attacking nations around the world, they will have to unite against us, as countries united against Nazi controlled Germany. This summation of mine is naturally disputed by my friend, in that he says "it will NEVER happen." I guess myself and other Americans can only hope so. Nonetheless, while our mass media continues to wrap itself up in nationalism, and claim innocence, little children, the elderly, wives, husbands, sons, daughters, cousins, nieces, nephews, so on and so forth, are losing their lives by the seconds, in the Middle East, due to the direct or indirect actions of this nation.
Many Americans as well, still wrap themselves up in the American flag, sing the national anthem, carry the "Holy Bible" as if it were a bucket of gold, and attend religious ceremonies in which they actually "pray" to God for our triumph. I passed a window of a small business in my neighborhood which has a sign stating, "Support America and Our Troops." If you turn on the television you can still see preachers talking about "Israel, Jesus, those Arabs, and the End times." I guess I can only wonder if God indeed exists, and I do believe in the Divine, what can one so wise be thinking.
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Sep 15, 2007 5:20 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov't demands and censors the title):
America Deceived (book)
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Posted by: Smiff on Sep 15, 2007 6:44 PM
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This surely begs the obvious question...
Then what the fuck are you doing there?
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Sep 15, 2007 7:09 PM
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america's air superiorty is and has been a strategic and tactical advantage this country has held since approximately 1943. You know a good nazi, imperialist, or warmongerer is gonna exploit that advantage even one as inept as the bush administration. I wish we could end all this waste.
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Posted by: TT5 on Sep 15, 2007 11:57 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» But when one war ends...
Posted by: TT5
» RE: Seems like you boys...
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
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Posted by: civilized european on Sep 16, 2007 1:57 AM
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» If this is all you got..
Posted by: TT5
» RE: If this is all you got..
Posted by: civilized european
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Posted by: marid on Sep 16, 2007 2:12 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 16, 2007 5:42 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 16, 2007 11:07 PM
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If it's truly untold, why do you present figures?:
"The result of the stepped up air war, according to the London-based organization Iraq Body Count, is an increase in civilian casualties. A Lancet study of "excess deaths" caused by the Iraq war found that air attacks were responsible for 13% of the deaths -- 76,000 as of June 2006 -- and that 50% of the deaths of children under 15 were caused by air strikes.
SFs called in an air strike last November near Kandahar that killed 31 nomads. This past April, a similar air strike in Western Afghanistan killed 57 villagers, half of them women and children."
What I'd like to know is anyone other than watchdog agencies reporting these figures? I know my daily newspapers are not.
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Sep 17, 2007 10:03 AM
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This is possibly the single most chilling statement of deliberate evil I've read since this began. Recall that Bush kept pictures of our returning dead from us, and still does if he can. Remember that the military lies every way it thinks it can get away with about our own dead, and doesn't even count the Iraqis we kill, much less differentiate between "insurgents" and civilians! Then consider how much worse and in what ways the American economy is getting: fuel prices, food prices, real estate, pay and benefits, civil rights, even the right to be free of government-sponsored religious coercion. With MSM cooperation, Americans are deliberately kept ignorant of the occupation's real purposes, and of the real tolls in human life, including millions of innocents who are being deliberately targeted, as are genuine journalists who dare attempt to tell any part of the true stories Americans MUST hear in order to exercise anything like responsible judgment. Bush has even made dissent that might affect his Iraq and other war plans negatively a crime!
As long as Americans are distracted by their own difficulties in surviving, in keeping a roof over their family's heads, food in their mouths, keeping medical care an option for themselves and their growing children, and are also kept from seeing the human cost when bombs are dropped haphazardly in civilian areas, it will all remain distant and unreal to most. Imagination is something television discourages, as our schools have done for decades. If people don't see a school full of small children with their guts hanging out and their heads and chests crushed by bullets, fallen concrete and the occasional boot, they don't have the wherewithal to imagine it. If they don't even hear about such things, they haven't even a reason to imagine it.
If we can prosecute a war from our living rooms, genocide becomes a video game for war leaders, with no "real world" (which the Bush administration believes it dictates anyway) consequences. This is an almost unbelievable evil, alongside the detention and torture of people anyone but those in charge would know to be innocent. I had thought the alteration of America, and maybe it was more of a mask the would come off when we awoke, into something terrible almost complete short of totalitarianism, but I was wrong. This is a metamorphosis akin to the caterpillar-to-butterfly change, but more like changing a dedicated Peace Corps worker to a werewolf and giving it rabies, and then turning it loose in day care centers and elementary schools. This war-culture being built and conditioned is a very deliberate evil designed to have this country up to its chin in innocent blood before it realizes it has become a genocidal monster, killing everything it ccan kill almost because it can, creating terror on a heretofore impossible scale, all the while screaming progressive slogans!
I had thought that the oxymoronic (and simply moronic) term "humanitarian bombing" was the ultimate in axiomatic hypocrisy, and that its use would blow this whole idiot thing wide open, exposing its putrid guts to even the most unaware. I was wrong there too. People said, "Oh yeah, right - we're actually helping these poor people by blowing up their children and everything they need to a functioning society". And it just keeps getting worse. I am reminded of Heinlein's precaution: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity". I would add "... or of human cowardice and the ability to rationalize anything, calling the worst of evils "good", believing the lie, and going to bed to sleep peacefully covered and surrounded by the blood of innocents.
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Posted by: mgloraine on Sep 17, 2007 10:58 AM
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The smartest of our smart weapons may be able to find and hit the programmed target with precision, but it cannot determine whether that target is full of soldiers or school children.
Everyone should remember that our country's most secret technologies rarely are actually secret , and they never stay secret. So the ability to kill people from a remote location is something which will eventually be turned against us. Then it will be some other general marvelling at how he can destroy American munitions factories in America without leaving the air-conditioned comfort of his home base.
All it takes is for one of these birds to go down where it can be recovered by someone with the resources to analyze it. Could that happen? It probably already has...
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Posted by: truthwatch9 on Oct 13, 2007 6:13 AM
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Our team checks and triple checks media reports for accuracy. We ask multiple government agencies and from a variety of National governments.
Fact: Improvised Explosive Devices used by insurgents have killed more civilians than any military strike. Not to mention that military strikes are not deliberate. IEDs are deliberately targeting civilians.
Unlike the media would have you beleive, the opinion of the U.S. is not so bad. 9 out of 10 Iraqi's or Afghans you speak with in those countries wnat the U.S. there.
Daily Afghans and Iraqis turn in terrorist to U.S. or other forces. That's right others -- the French, British, Japanese, Korean, Canadian, New Zealand, Australian, Dutch, Tonga and others are with the U.S. side by side.
Yes, U.S. carries the bulk of the load, but we are also the most capable.
If you think U.S. attacks generated the violence then get some history books.
The U.S. did not create the Taliban. Mujahadeen were helped by us. They existed for more than 100 years prior though. As did what we currently refer to as Taliban.
Coalition soldiers are helping to build school, drill wells, provide medical relief, teach, and on and on.
You won't see it reported more than once in a blue moon, because your freinds in the media do not want you to know the truth.
I personally have seen what the Americans in particular have done.
I am amazed at how a U.S. Airman working on a provisional reconstruction team can go out day by day to help Afghan villagers and not complain about the work, despite knowing the Taliban will target him and his comrades when they return to their base camp.
If you are American and down talking your country, I plead with you to look again and rethink your comments.
What you have done is incredible.
Kyle
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Posted by: truthwatch9 on Oct 13, 2007 6:31 AM
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Nearly every strike you see is guided by a person on the ground who is looking at a target. Civilians are hit because, Terrorizers hold them their or force them to walk with guns. I have seen it, so don't doubt me please. Bad men who have just killed 10 or 20 or 100s of innocents run into hospitals to hide from Police or Coalition army. Terrorist attack hospitals tand schools, and only U.S. soldiers are there to protect them.
When an errant weapon hits a building with innocents it is a tragedy, but why does no one here complain about the deliberate weapons targeted at civilians by the Taliban or AQ?
Why do local translators risk their life to help Coaliton forces oust the AQ and Taliban?
Yesterday, men attacked a civilian gathering with mortars. An American stopped the attacks by calling an air strike on the mortars. No civilians were killed.
How is America bad?
Blogs are people's opinion -- not fact.
The AQ shot a U.S. camera man yesterday. He was only taking photos. Was he not innocent.
Praise be the maker, that some people are willing to fight for peole they do not even know.
Can any of you speak to the atrocities that occured before Sadam was ousted, or before America and allies came to aid Afghanistan?
You did not hear about the violence then, because people were silenced. In Iraq, Sadam killed more people a year than have died since the war began.
In Afghanistan, 100s of women were beaten daily. Expelled from their communities for talking wrong or reading. They were circumsized and raped by men who claim to be holy.
I am sorry, I must end this.
It upsets me that so many know so little.
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Posted by: hayduke1 on Sep 15, 2007 1:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That coupled with a new-found "pre-emptive" ideal means no one in the world is safe from the greedy fingers of our corporate machine.
Somehow, we must get this government back from the traitors who have used and abused our system to such a point that we as a country have ignored the devil that attacked us for a devil that had oil.
NO MORE SQUANDERING THE WEALTH OF OUR CHILDREN FOR THIS ILLEGAL/IMMORAL INVASION/OCCUPATION OF A SOVERIGN NATION!
WE MUST REDEEM THE IDEA OF "THE COMMON GOOD"....before it's too late....
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» RE: exporting war?
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: exporting war?
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: exporting war?
Posted by: jimmyaj
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Posted by: vox persona on Sep 15, 2007 1:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Say, wasn't it the Afghan resistance fighters we armed in their resistance to the Soviets that brought us the Taliban? What were they called, the Majahadeen? How much blowback do we need in our face to learn that violence only begets more violence. Now we seem to be arming both sides in Iraq's 'civil' war. Bush single-handedly changed this world....rarely does one individual have that kind of effect on the Gestalt and zeitgeist.
Question for Christian armchair 'warriors': If God is Love, and Christ taught peace, what does that make war, especially 'preemptive war'? Wouldn't that be antiChrist-ian?
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» RE: Nice
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Nice
Posted by: dmaciewski
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Posted by: TT5 on Sep 15, 2007 1:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Beagle17 on Sep 15, 2007 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(in NYTimes) http://www.gnn.tv/H15230
Reminder: Iraq has never attacked the United States. Nor has Afghanistan. The attack of 9/11 has never been conclusively linked to Al-qaida or Bin Ladin. It was a criminal act, not an act of war. They rewrote the dictionary, as they are so fond of doing.
I don't think America can ever regain moral credibility in this world. It is far and away the world's biggest rogue stae or terrorist state or whatever. All those US politicians who claim to believe in Jesus and so forth are clearly liars. Jesus was a pacifist who would have just as soon seen God smite those who do such things.
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» RE: Another well-kept secret
Posted by: Tom Degan
» "They rewrote the dictionary, as they are so fond of doing."
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Another well-kept secret
Posted by: badkitty
» I just want to emphasize one thing you said
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Democritus on Sep 15, 2007 4:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This air war is also unproductive of its mission to pacify a population. Hitler learned this when his blitz over England simply stiffened the resolve of the British. Our politicians and generals seem to learn nothing from history. They tried it in Vietnam and Cambodia, and it didn't work. It will not work in Iraq and Afghanistan, either.
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» RE: Both immoral and unproductive
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Both immoral and unproductive
Posted by: Democritus
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 15, 2007 4:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dwight D. Eisenhoer
Fairwell Address to the nation
17 January 1961
The military industrial complex that Ike spoke so presciently about forty-seven years ago this January should be permanently shut down. It has not only looted the economy of a country that has the potential to be the greatest place in the world in which to live (Dirty little secret: It's not) but it has also tuned this fragile planet into a powder keg. The United Nations - for the sake of life on this planet - has got to put the merchants of death out of business not only in this country but across the globe. Why is it that this manner of dialogue is always dismissed as the ramblings of a fool and a fanatic? Why is if that so many people who profess to be "Christian" would tolerate a situation that utterly flies in the face of the words of Jesus Christ in the Sermon on the Mount:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called 'sons of God'".
From the Gospel according to Matthew
From this day forth, I will no longer "support our troops". If "supporting" them means encouraging the murderous agenda of the Bush regime, then count me out brother or sister! I just want them to come home, safe and sound. I don't want them to kill or be killed any longer. I don't want them to have to deal with lost limbs or wasted lives anymore. Anyone who seriously believes that the war on Iraq is going to have a happy ending and that the USA will emerge from the carnage victorious has been watching too much FOX News (BREAKING NEWS: They've been lying to you from day one).
This war is over. This war is lost. Get used to the idea. Come to terms with it. Stop being in denial - GET A GRIP, FOLKS! The almost four thousand American kids who have lost their lives in this hideous atrocity (Not to mention a million or more Iraqi men, women and little children) have died for nothing. This obscene situation came about only because a handful of GOP-connected corporations wanted to loot a country that is in possession of the second or third largest oil reserves on the planet. Is that an "un-American" thing to say? Quite frankly, I could not care less if I tried. I refuse to be a "good German", thank you very much. Just call me a citizen of the good ol' planet Earth.
I was just curious: Is there anyone out there who still believes that sending this disgusting, half-witted little thug to the White House was a good idea? Anyone? Anyone??
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: Shut It Down
Posted by: nonaste
» RE: Shut It Down
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Shut It Down
Posted by: fearless flower
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Posted by: chuff8 on Sep 15, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fearn on Sep 15, 2007 9:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Acceptable
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Acceptable - Because we believe we are on the right side
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Acceptable
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Acceptable
Posted by: Maryanne
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 15, 2007 9:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1969: "Nixon Begins Secret Bombing of Cambodia
In an effort to destroy Communist supply routes and base camps in Cambodia, President Nixon gives the go-ahead to "Operation Breakfast." The covert bombing of Cambodia, conducted without the knowledge of Congress or the American public, will continue for fourteen months."
1973: "Hearings on Secret Bombings Begin
The Senate Armed Services Committee opens hearing on the U.S. bombing of Cambodia. Allegations are made that the Nixon administration allowed bombing raids to be carried out during what was supposed to be a time when Cambodia's neutrality was officially recognized."
1974: "Report Cites Damage to Vietnam Ecology
According to a report issued by the National Academy of Science, use of chemical herbicides during the war has caused long-term damage to the ecology of Vietnam. Subsequent inquiries will focus on the connection between certain herbicides, particularly Agent Orange, and widespread reports of cancer, skin disease, and other disorders in individuals exposed to them."
1974: "Nixon Impeachment Hearings Begin
In May, the House Judiciary Committee begins impeachment hearings against President Richard Nixon. Among the articles of impeachment is a resolution condemning Nixon for the secret bombing of Cambodia."
A few dissimilar points: in place of Agent Orange in Vietnam, we have Depleted Uranium in Iraq and Afghanistan. We also have a gutless House that refuses to bring up impeachment charges against Bush, largely because they're afraid of the corporate media response. The corporate media, rather than showing images of the war abroad, instead focuses exclusively on the propaganda-laced speeches of Petraeus and other Bush apparatchiks. Hmm... what other historical period comes to mind?
1944: "Yes, things should be even better! Everyone should be able to work without worrying. All should be able to afford to travel, to fill their homes with beautiful things, and to fulfill their heart's desires, both large and small.
That is what Germany wants! For itself and for all the countries in Europe of good will. Together, we will work to secure and raise the standard of living!
That is what Germany is fighting for. And only a German victory will realize the goal of a European economic community."
I'd say the main difference between the Vietnam era and the present in the US is the vastly increased consolidation of the corporate media, and the coordination of media messages.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 15, 2007 11:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Losing Armies Often Resort to Atrocities.....somewhat offended..
Posted by: Captainmagic
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Posted by: Mr. Terrific on Sep 15, 2007 1:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He defends the U.S. military against claims of causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. He states that it is simply a LIE, that the U.S. military intentionally targets civilians. He claims that the now close to 1 MILLION deaths in Iraqi, have mostly been caused by Iraqis killing each other, and not the U.S. military. He does agree that the U.S. military is indirectly involved in their deaths, due to its intervention in their country. However he believes, the U.S. military can not claim sole responsiblity for their deaths.
He has used the term "collateral damage" on more than one occasion when referencing the Iraqi war's civilian death total. As I look at the amount of technology created by the U.S. military industrial complex, and see the absolute horror of their creations, I can only wonder what will happen when allied nations begin to bomb our country and our most precious ally Israel, with Depleted Uranium, or use experimental weapons, and fly drones in our air space and the like. How many of our civilians and Israel's, will be killed due to "collateral damage." Will our media have excited little Fox News people posing counter arguments against U.S. civilian and Israeli "insurgents?" I doubt it. Why if allied nations attacked us and our little precious ally, we would simply be "defending" ourselves in the eyes of our mass media.
Yet eventually, if this country keeps attacking nations around the world, they will have to unite against us, as countries united against Nazi controlled Germany. This summation of mine is naturally disputed by my friend, in that he says "it will NEVER happen." I guess myself and other Americans can only hope so. Nonetheless, while our mass media continues to wrap itself up in nationalism, and claim innocence, little children, the elderly, wives, husbands, sons, daughters, cousins, nieces, nephews, so on and so forth, are losing their lives by the seconds, in the Middle East, due to the direct or indirect actions of this nation.
Many Americans as well, still wrap themselves up in the American flag, sing the national anthem, carry the "Holy Bible" as if it were a bucket of gold, and attend religious ceremonies in which they actually "pray" to God for our triumph. I passed a window of a small business in my neighborhood which has a sign stating, "Support America and Our Troops." If you turn on the television you can still see preachers talking about "Israel, Jesus, those Arabs, and the End times." I guess I can only wonder if God indeed exists, and I do believe in the Divine, what can one so wise be thinking.
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Sep 15, 2007 5:20 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov't demands and censors the title):
America Deceived (book)
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Posted by: Smiff on Sep 15, 2007 6:44 PM
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This surely begs the obvious question...
Then what the fuck are you doing there?
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Sep 15, 2007 7:09 PM
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america's air superiorty is and has been a strategic and tactical advantage this country has held since approximately 1943. You know a good nazi, imperialist, or warmongerer is gonna exploit that advantage even one as inept as the bush administration. I wish we could end all this waste.
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Posted by: TT5 on Sep 15, 2007 11:57 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» But when one war ends...
Posted by: TT5
» RE: Seems like you boys...
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
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Posted by: civilized european on Sep 16, 2007 1:57 AM
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» If this is all you got..
Posted by: TT5
» RE: If this is all you got..
Posted by: civilized european
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Posted by: marid on Sep 16, 2007 2:12 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 16, 2007 5:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 16, 2007 11:07 PM
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If it's truly untold, why do you present figures?:
"The result of the stepped up air war, according to the London-based organization Iraq Body Count, is an increase in civilian casualties. A Lancet study of "excess deaths" caused by the Iraq war found that air attacks were responsible for 13% of the deaths -- 76,000 as of June 2006 -- and that 50% of the deaths of children under 15 were caused by air strikes.
SFs called in an air strike last November near Kandahar that killed 31 nomads. This past April, a similar air strike in Western Afghanistan killed 57 villagers, half of them women and children."
What I'd like to know is anyone other than watchdog agencies reporting these figures? I know my daily newspapers are not.
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Sep 17, 2007 10:03 AM
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This is possibly the single most chilling statement of deliberate evil I've read since this began. Recall that Bush kept pictures of our returning dead from us, and still does if he can. Remember that the military lies every way it thinks it can get away with about our own dead, and doesn't even count the Iraqis we kill, much less differentiate between "insurgents" and civilians! Then consider how much worse and in what ways the American economy is getting: fuel prices, food prices, real estate, pay and benefits, civil rights, even the right to be free of government-sponsored religious coercion. With MSM cooperation, Americans are deliberately kept ignorant of the occupation's real purposes, and of the real tolls in human life, including millions of innocents who are being deliberately targeted, as are genuine journalists who dare attempt to tell any part of the true stories Americans MUST hear in order to exercise anything like responsible judgment. Bush has even made dissent that might affect his Iraq and other war plans negatively a crime!
As long as Americans are distracted by their own difficulties in surviving, in keeping a roof over their family's heads, food in their mouths, keeping medical care an option for themselves and their growing children, and are also kept from seeing the human cost when bombs are dropped haphazardly in civilian areas, it will all remain distant and unreal to most. Imagination is something television discourages, as our schools have done for decades. If people don't see a school full of small children with their guts hanging out and their heads and chests crushed by bullets, fallen concrete and the occasional boot, they don't have the wherewithal to imagine it. If they don't even hear about such things, they haven't even a reason to imagine it.
If we can prosecute a war from our living rooms, genocide becomes a video game for war leaders, with no "real world" (which the Bush administration believes it dictates anyway) consequences. This is an almost unbelievable evil, alongside the detention and torture of people anyone but those in charge would know to be innocent. I had thought the alteration of America, and maybe it was more of a mask the would come off when we awoke, into something terrible almost complete short of totalitarianism, but I was wrong. This is a metamorphosis akin to the caterpillar-to-butterfly change, but more like changing a dedicated Peace Corps worker to a werewolf and giving it rabies, and then turning it loose in day care centers and elementary schools. This war-culture being built and conditioned is a very deliberate evil designed to have this country up to its chin in innocent blood before it realizes it has become a genocidal monster, killing everything it ccan kill almost because it can, creating terror on a heretofore impossible scale, all the while screaming progressive slogans!
I had thought that the oxymoronic (and simply moronic) term "humanitarian bombing" was the ultimate in axiomatic hypocrisy, and that its use would blow this whole idiot thing wide open, exposing its putrid guts to even the most unaware. I was wrong there too. People said, "Oh yeah, right - we're actually helping these poor people by blowing up their children and everything they need to a functioning society". And it just keeps getting worse. I am reminded of Heinlein's precaution: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity". I would add "... or of human cowardice and the ability to rationalize anything, calling the worst of evils "good", believing the lie, and going to bed to sleep peacefully covered and surrounded by the blood of innocents.
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Posted by: mgloraine on Sep 17, 2007 10:58 AM
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The smartest of our smart weapons may be able to find and hit the programmed target with precision, but it cannot determine whether that target is full of soldiers or school children.
Everyone should remember that our country's most secret technologies rarely are actually secret , and they never stay secret. So the ability to kill people from a remote location is something which will eventually be turned against us. Then it will be some other general marvelling at how he can destroy American munitions factories in America without leaving the air-conditioned comfort of his home base.
All it takes is for one of these birds to go down where it can be recovered by someone with the resources to analyze it. Could that happen? It probably already has...
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Posted by: truthwatch9 on Oct 13, 2007 6:13 AM
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Our team checks and triple checks media reports for accuracy. We ask multiple government agencies and from a variety of National governments.
Fact: Improvised Explosive Devices used by insurgents have killed more civilians than any military strike. Not to mention that military strikes are not deliberate. IEDs are deliberately targeting civilians.
Unlike the media would have you beleive, the opinion of the U.S. is not so bad. 9 out of 10 Iraqi's or Afghans you speak with in those countries wnat the U.S. there.
Daily Afghans and Iraqis turn in terrorist to U.S. or other forces. That's right others -- the French, British, Japanese, Korean, Canadian, New Zealand, Australian, Dutch, Tonga and others are with the U.S. side by side.
Yes, U.S. carries the bulk of the load, but we are also the most capable.
If you think U.S. attacks generated the violence then get some history books.
The U.S. did not create the Taliban. Mujahadeen were helped by us. They existed for more than 100 years prior though. As did what we currently refer to as Taliban.
Coalition soldiers are helping to build school, drill wells, provide medical relief, teach, and on and on.
You won't see it reported more than once in a blue moon, because your freinds in the media do not want you to know the truth.
I personally have seen what the Americans in particular have done.
I am amazed at how a U.S. Airman working on a provisional reconstruction team can go out day by day to help Afghan villagers and not complain about the work, despite knowing the Taliban will target him and his comrades when they return to their base camp.
If you are American and down talking your country, I plead with you to look again and rethink your comments.
What you have done is incredible.
Kyle
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Posted by: truthwatch9 on Oct 13, 2007 6:31 AM
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Nearly every strike you see is guided by a person on the ground who is looking at a target. Civilians are hit because, Terrorizers hold them their or force them to walk with guns. I have seen it, so don't doubt me please. Bad men who have just killed 10 or 20 or 100s of innocents run into hospitals to hide from Police or Coalition army. Terrorist attack hospitals tand schools, and only U.S. soldiers are there to protect them.
When an errant weapon hits a building with innocents it is a tragedy, but why does no one here complain about the deliberate weapons targeted at civilians by the Taliban or AQ?
Why do local translators risk their life to help Coaliton forces oust the AQ and Taliban?
Yesterday, men attacked a civilian gathering with mortars. An American stopped the attacks by calling an air strike on the mortars. No civilians were killed.
How is America bad?
Blogs are people's opinion -- not fact.
The AQ shot a U.S. camera man yesterday. He was only taking photos. Was he not innocent.
Praise be the maker, that some people are willing to fight for peole they do not even know.
Can any of you speak to the atrocities that occured before Sadam was ousted, or before America and allies came to aid Afghanistan?
You did not hear about the violence then, because people were silenced. In Iraq, Sadam killed more people a year than have died since the war began.
In Afghanistan, 100s of women were beaten daily. Expelled from their communities for talking wrong or reading. They were circumsized and raped by men who claim to be holy.
I am sorry, I must end this.
It upsets me that so many know so little.
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