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Accustomed to Their Own Atrocities in Iraq, U.S. Soldiers Have Become Murderers

By Chris Hedges, Adbusters. Posted July 27, 2007.


After four years of war, American Marines and soldiers have become socialized to atrocity. The war in Iraq is now primarily about murder. There is very little killing.
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All troops, when they occupy and battle insurgent forces, as in Iraq, or Gaza or Vietnam, are placed in "atrocity producing situations."

In this environment, surrounded by a hostile population, simple acts such as going to a store to buy a can of Coke means you can be killed. This constant fear and stress pushes troops to view everyone around them as the enemy. This hostility is compounded when the enemy, as in Iraq, is elusive, shadowy and hard to find.

The rage soldiers feel after a roadside bomb explodes, killing or maiming their comrades, is one that is easily directed over time to innocent civilians who are seen to support the insurgents. It is a short psychological leap, but a massive moral leap. It is a leap from killing -- the shooting of someone who has the capacity to do you harm -- to murder -- the deadly assault against someone who cannot harm you. The war in Iraq is now primarily about murder. There is very little killing.

After four years of war, American Marines and soldiers have become socialized to atrocity. The American killing project is not described in these terms to a distant public. The politicians still speak in the abstract terms of glory, honor, and heroism, in the necessity of improving the world, in lofty phrases of political and spiritual renewal. Those who kill large numbers of people always claim it as a virtue. The campaign to rid the world of terror is expressed with this rhetoric, as if once all terrorists are destroyed evil itself will vanish.

The reality behind the myth, however, is very different. The reality and the ideal clash when soldiers and Marines return home, alienating these combat veterans from the world around them, a world that still dines out on the myth of war and the virtues of the nation. But slowly returning veterans are giving us a new narrative of the war -- one that exposes the vast enterprise of industrial slaughter unleashed in Iraq for a lie and sustained because of wounded national pride and willful ignorance. "This unit sets up this traffic control point and this 18 year old kid is on top of an armored Humvee with a .50 caliber machine gun," remembered Geoffrey Millard who served in Tikrit with the 42nd Infantry Division. "And this car speeds at him pretty quick and he makes a split second decision that that's a suicide bomber, and he presses the butterfly trigger and puts 200 rounds in less than a minute into this vehicle. It killed the mother, a father and two kids. The boy was aged four and the daughter was aged three."

"And they briefed this to the general," Millard said, "and they briefed it gruesome. I mean, they had pictures. They briefed it to him. And this colonel turns around to this full division staff and says, 'if these fucking Hadjis learned to drive, this shit wouldn't happen.'"

Those who come back from war, like Millard and tens of thousands of other veterans, suffer not only delayed reactions to stress, but a crisis of faith. The God they knew, or thought they knew, failed them. The church or the synagogue or the mosque, which promised redemption by serving God and country, did not prepare them for the betrayal of this civic religion, for the capacity we all have for human atrocity, for the lies and myths used to mask the reality of war. War is always about betrayal, betrayal of the young by the old, of idealists by cynics and of troops by politicians. This bitter knowledge of betrayal has seeped into the ranks of American troops.

It has unleashed a new wave of embittered veterans not seen since the Vietnam War. It has made it possible for us to begin, again, to see war's death mask.

"And then, you know, my sort of sentiment of what the fuck are we doing, that I felt that way in Iraq," said Sergeant Ben Flanders, who estimated that he ran hundreds of convoys in Iraq. "It's the sort of insanity of it and the fact that it reduces it. Well, I think war does anyway, but I felt like there was this enormous reduction in my compassion for people, the only thing that wound up mattering is myself and the guys that I was with. And everybody else be damned, whether you are an Iraqi, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you live here, I'm sorry this is a terrible situation, and I'm sorry that you have to deal with all of, you know, army vehicles running around and shooting, and these insurgents and all this stuff.

"The first briefing you get when you get off the plane in Kuwait, and you get off the plane and you're holding a duffle bag in each hand," Millard remembered. "You've got your weapon slung. You've got a web sack on your back. You're dying of heat. You're tired. You're jet-lagged. Your mind is just full of goop. And then, you're scared on top of that, because, you know, you're in Kuwait, you're not in the States anymore … so fear sets in, too. And they sit you into this little briefing room and you get this briefing about how, you know, you can't trust any of these fucking Hadjis, because all these fucking Hadjis are going to kill you. And Hadji is always used as a term of disrespect and usually, with the 'f' word in front of it."

War is also the pornography of violence. It has a dark beauty, filled with the monstrous and the grotesque. The Bible calls it "the lust of the eye" and warns believers against it. War allows us to engage in lusts and passions we keep hidden in the deepest, most private interiors of our fantasy life. It allows us to destroy not only things but human beings. In that moment of wholesale destruction, we wield the power to the divine, the power to revoke another person's charter to live on this earth. The frenzy of this destruction -- and when unit discipline breaks down, or there was no unit discipline to begin with, frenzy is the right word -- sees armed bands crazed by the poisonous elixir our power to bring about the obliteration of others delivers. All things, including human beings, become objects -- objects to either gratify or destroy or both. Almost no one is immune. The contagion of the crowd sees to that.

Human beings are machine gunned and bombed from the air, automatic grenade launchers pepper hovels and neighbors with high-powered explosive devices and convoys race through Iraq like freight trains of death. These soldiers and Marines have at their fingertips the heady ability to call in air strikes and firepower that obliterate landscapes and villages in fiery infernos. They can instantly give or deprive human life, and with this power they became sick and demented. The moral universe is turned upside down. All human beings are used as objects. And no one walks away uninfected. War thrusts us into a vortex of pain and fleeting ecstasy. It thrusts us into a world where law is of little consequence, human life is cheap and the gratification of the moment becomes the overriding desire that must be satiated, even at the cost of another's dignity or life.

"A lot of guys really supported that whole concept that, you know, if they don't speak English and they have darker skin, they're not as human as us, so we can do what we want," said Josh Middleton, who served in the 82nd Airborne in Iraq. "And you know, when 20 year old kids are yelled at back and forth at Bragg and we're picking up cigarette butts and getting yelled at every day to find a dirty weapon. But over here, it's like life and death. And 40-year-old Iraqi men look at us with fear and we can -- do you know what I mean? -- we have this power that you can't have. That's really liberating. Life is just knocked down to this primal level of, you know, you worry about where the next food's going to come from, the next sleep or the next patrol and to stay alive."

"It's like you feel like, I don't know, if you're a caveman," he added. "Do you know what I mean? Just, you know, I mean, this is how life is supposed to be. Life and death, essentially. No TV. None of that bullshit."

It takes little in wartime to turn ordinary men into killers. Most give themselves willingly to the seduction of unlimited power to destroy, and all feel the peer pressure to conform. Few, once in battle, find the strength to resist. Physical courage is common on a battlefield. Moral courage is not.

Military machines and state bureaucracies, who seek to make us obey, seek also to silence those who return from war to speak the truth, to hide from a public eager for stories of war that fit the mythic narrative the essence of war which is death.

Camilo Mejia, who eventually applied while still on active duty to become a conscientious objector, said the ugly side of American racism and chauvinism appeared the moment his unit arrived in the Middle East. Fellow soldiers instantly ridiculed Arab-style toilets because they would be "shitting like dogs." The troops around him treated Iraqis, whose language they did not speak and whose culture was alien, little better than animals. The word "Hadji" swiftly became a slur to refer to Iraqis, in much the same way "gook" was used to debase the Vietnamese or "rag head" is used to belittle those in Afghanistan.

Soon those around him ridiculed "Hadji food," "Hadji homes," and "Hadji music." Bewildered prisoners, who were rounded up in useless and indiscriminate raids, were stripped naked, and left to stand terrified and bewildered for hours in the baking sun. They were subjected to a steady torrent of verbal and physical abuse. "I experienced horrible confusion," Mejia remembers, "not knowing whether I was more afraid for the detainees or for what would happen to me if I did anything to help them."

These scenes of abuse, which began immediately after the American invasion, were little more than collective acts of sadism. Mejia watched, not daring to intervene, yet increasingly disgusted at the treatment of Iraqi civilians. He saw how the callous and unchecked abuse of power first led to alienation among Iraqis and spawned a raw hatred of the occupation forces. When army units raided homes, the soldiers burst in on frightened families, forced them to huddle in the corners at gun point, and helped themselves to food and items in the house.

"After we arrested drivers," he recalled, "we would choose whichever vehicles we liked, fuel them from confiscated jerry cans, and conduct undercover presence patrols in the impounded cars.

"But to this day I cannot find a single good answer as to why I stood by idly during the abuse of those prisoners except, of course, my own cowardice," he also notes.

Iraqi families were routinely fired upon for getting too close to check points, including an incident where an unarmed father driving a car was decapitated by a 50-caliber machine gun in front of his small son, although by then, Mejia notes, "this sort of killing of civilians had long ceased to arouse much interest or even comment." Soldiers shot holes into cans of gasoline being sold alongside the road and then tossed incendiary grenades into the pools to set them ablaze. "It's fun to shoot shit up," a soldier said. Some open fire on small children throwing rocks. And when improvised explosive devices go off the troops fire wildly into densely populated neighborhoods, leaving behind innocent victims who become, in the callous language of war, "collateral damage."

"We would drive on the wrong side of the highway to reduce the risk of being hit by an IED," Mejia said of the deadly roadside bombs. "This forced oncoming vehicles to move to one side of the road, and considerably slowed down the flow of traffic. In order to avoid being held up in traffic jams, where someone could roll a grenade under our trucks, we would simply drive up on sidewalks, running over garbage cans and even hitting civilian vehicles to push them out of the way. Many of the soldiers would laugh and shriek at these tactics."

At one point the unit was surrounded by an angry crowd protesting the occupation. Mejia and his squad opened fire on an Iraqi holding a grenade, riddling the man's body with bullets. Mejia checked his clip afterwards and determined that he fired 11 rounds into the young man. Units, he said, nonchalantly opened fire in crowded neighborhoods with heavy M-240 Bravo machine guns, AT-4 launchers and Mark 19s, a machine gun that spits out grenades.

"The frustration that resulted from our inability to get back at those who were attacking us," Mejia writes, "led to tactics that seemed designed simply to punish the local population that was supporting them."

He watched soldiers from his unit abuse the corpses of Iraqi dead. Mejia related how, in one incident, soldiers laughed as an Iraqi corpse fell from the back of a truck.

"Take a picture of me and this motherfucker," one of the soldiers who had been in Mejia's squad in third platoon said, putting his arm around the corpse.

The shroud fell away from the body revealing a young man wearing only his pants. There was a bullet hole in his chest.

"Damn, they really fucked you up, didn't they!?" the soldier laughed.

The scene, Mejia noted, was witnessed by the dead man's brothers and cousins. Senior officers, protected in heavily fortified compounds, rarely saw combat. They sent their troops on futile missions in the quest to be awarded Combat Infantry Badges. This recognition, Mejia notes, "was essential to their further progress up the officer ranks." This pattern meant that "very few high-ranking officers actually got out into the action, and lower-ranking officers were afraid to contradict them when they were wrong." When the badges, bearing an emblem of a musket with the hammer dropped, resting on top of an oak wreath, were finally awarded, the commanders immediately brought in Iraqi tailors to sew the badges on the left breast pockets of their desert combat uniforms.

"This was one occasion when our leaders led from the front," Mejia noted bitterly. "They were among the first to visit the tailors to get their little patches of glory sewn next to their hearts."

The war breeds gratuitous and constant acts of violence.

"I mean, if someone has a fan, they're a white collar family," said Phillip Chrystal, who carried out raids on Iraqi homes in Kirkuk. "So we get started on this day, this one, in particular. And it starts with the psy ops [psychological operations] vehicles out there, you know, with the big speakers playing a message in Arabic or Farsi or Kurdish or whatever they happen to be saying, basically, saying put your weapons, if you have them, next to the front door in your house. Please come outside, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we had Apaches flying over for security, if they're needed, and it's also a good show of force. And we were running around, and we'd done a few houses by this point, and I was with my platoon leader, my squad leader and maybe a couple other people, but I don't really remember.

"And we were approaching this one house, and this farming area, they're, like, built up into little courtyards," he said. "So they have like the main house, common area. They have like a kitchen and then, they have like a storage shed-type deal. And we were approaching, and they had a family dog. And it was barking ferociously, because it was doing its job. And my squad leader, just out of nowhere, just shoots it. And he didn't -- mother fucker -- he shot it and it went in the jaw and exited out. So I see this dog -- and I'm a huge animal lover. I love animals -- and this dog has like these eyes on it and he's running around spraying blood all over the place. And like, you know, the family is sitting right there with three little children and a mom and a dad horrified. And I'm at a loss for words. And so, I yell at him. I'm like what the fuck are you doing.

"And so, the dog's yelping. It's crying out without a jaw. And I'm looking at the family, and they're just scared. And so, I told them I was like fucking shoot it, you know. At least, kill it, because that can't be fixed. It's suffering. And I actually get tears from just saying this right now, but -- and I had tears then, too, -- and I'm looking at the kids and they are so scared. So I got the interpreter over with me and, you know, I get my wallet out and I gave them 20 bucks, because that's what I had. And, you know, I had him give it to them and told them that I'm so sorry that asshole did that. Which was very common. I don't know if it's rednecks or what, but they feel that shooting dogs is something that adds to one's manliness traits. I don't know. I had a big problem with that.

"Was a report ever filed about it?" he asked. "Was anything ever done? Any punishment ever dished out? No, absolutely not. He was a sycophant down to the T."

We make our heroes out of clay. We laud their gallant deeds and give them uniforms with colored ribbons on their chest for the acts of violence they committed or endured. They are our false repositories of glory and honor, of power, of self-righteousness, of patriotism and self-worship, all that we want to believe about ourselves. They are our plaster saints of war, the icons we cheer to defend us and make us and our nation great. They are the props of our civic religion, our love of power and force, our belief in our right as a chosen nation to wield this force against the weak and rule. This is our nation's idolatry of itself. And this idolatry has corrupted religious institutions, not only here but in most nations, making it impossible for us to separate the will of God from the will of the state.

Prophets are not those who speak of piety and duty from pulpits -- few people in pulpits have much worth listening to -- but it is the battered wrecks of men and women who return from Iraq and speak the halting words we do not want to hear, words that we must listen to and heed to know ourselves. They tell us war is a soulless void. They have seen and tasted how war plunges us to barbarity, perversion, pain and an unchecked orgy of death. And it is their testimonies alone that have the redemptive power to save us from ourselves.

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Chris Hedges is the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."

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Well...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 12:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it ain't no "picnic" here either!

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» RE: Well... Posted by: Nez46
» RE: Well... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well... Posted by: lokietek1968
» RE: Well... Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Well... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well... Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Well... Posted by: lokietek1968
» RE: Well... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well... Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Well... Posted by: blitzmesser
America getting out
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
while the goings good!

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» RE: America getting out Posted by: rambleman
C'mon, Alternet...
Posted by: travman67 on Jul 27, 2007 1:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not that it doesn't bear repeating but this story was presented already, like 40% is the exact same stuff. Its filled with pomposity- "We make our heroes out of clay. We laud their gallant deeds and give them uniforms with colored ribbons on their chest for the acts of violence they committed or endured. They are our false repositories of glory and honor, of power, of self-righteousness, of patriotism and self-worship, all that we want to believe about ourselves. They are our plaster saints of war, the icons we cheer to defend us and make us and our nation great. They are the props of our civic religion, our love of power and force, our belief in our right as a chosen nation to wield this force against the weak and rule. This is our nation's idolatry of itself. And this idolatry has corrupted religious institutions, not only here but in most nations, making it impossible for us to separate the will of God from the will of the state. - that will not make a dent in my coworkers or peers...sadly unhelpful.

I want to get this pont across to everyone- the military training system and the confusion of urban warfare create a situation where you have desensitized, well-equipped armed people in a "target" rich environment. I may as well contribute to the verbosity and triteness by saying it- bulls in china shops.

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» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: hagwind
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: WizardGad
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: Gma1
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: Gma1
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: JoAnne
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: nopartygal
» Triteness Abounds Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: C'mon, Alternet... Posted by: blitzmesser
And...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 1:45 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's not just in Iraq!

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A...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 2:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"New World Order" indeed!

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Towards...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 2:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the BITTER end!

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frederick
Posted by: sport on Jul 27, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"War is Hell", someone infamously stated. I'm the first to criticize Americans for short-sighted prejudice and arrogance. Soldiers sent into combat need pride in themselves. Soldiers in a situation where cowardly enemy combantants hide behind women, children, or mosques and who cause those "innocents" to be in the firing line, are in a difficult spot and sometimes innocents will be hurt or killed. This author makes a lot of points based on his psycological analyses of people, soldiers and American leaders, and not all of them are off-mark, but the author is really attacking America and its decision to stay in Iraq until stability can be achieved. What is really being said is 'oh, that America and its people, such bad bad people'. Well, I think the author needs to sign up for duty with al Qaeda, Hisbullah or some other group and start fighting the America he finds so sick and evil. Then, when they beat us, he can set about fixing America once and for all. Mr. Hedges ought put his money where his mouth is, in other words, instead of conveniently sitting in his ivory tower bashing American troops who are dying trying to do good things in Iraq. Plus he ought report on soldiers who can handle the mission without coming home to whine-the majority.

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» hindsight Posted by: alphakat
» RE: frederick Posted by: JoAnne
» RE: frederick Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: frederick Posted by: JoAnne
» RE: frederick Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: frederick Posted by: JoAnne
» frederick Posted by: sport
» RE: frederick Posted by: leafsong1
» A terrorists best friend! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: A terrorists best friend! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: A terrorists best friend! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: A terrorists best friend! Posted by: blitzmesser
» War is just Shucky-darn ... Posted by: BenCaxton12
» RE: War is just Shucky-darn ... Posted by: peacefullaim
» Chris Hedges Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Chris Hedges Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Chris Hedges Posted by: owleyes
» RE: frederick Posted by: reinaldok
» RE: frederick Posted by: maddy
» RE: frederick Posted by: sport
» RE: frederick Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: frederick Posted by: Lauren
» RE: frederick Posted by: sport
» RE: frederick Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: frederick Posted by: MadFlacc
» RE: frederick Posted by: jareilly
» RE: frederick Posted by: sport
» RE: frederick Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: frederick Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frederick Posted by: sport
Don't support the troops, means don''t support this fascism, criminality
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 27, 2007 4:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The attempt by the corporate media to always support the troops, in spite of the criminal fascist wars, has run its course.
We made no such distinctions with the Nazi troops, and the policies of fascsim, imperialism they were following. So why does the idiotic two party class system, with its class liberals and class neocons keep repeating this fascist mantra, that the troops have not died in vain, i.e. have in fact stupidly carried out these imperial wars of aggression and deserve no thanks.

We have, however, made the distinctions that war crimes, wars of aggression, are subject to the Nuremberg principle, international laws, the Hague, Geneva conventions, treaty against torture, and these thugs, who have been responsbile now for the deaths of a million Iraqis, are themselves criminals following the war criminals in both parties, who instituted these fascist, imperial wars of aggression. The fact that most of these yahoos went in, without picking up alternative news, or check out what the anti war movement was saying, before they went in, except to pick up a gun, and murder its citizens, is proof many of them are clueless, uninformed and easily manipulated as the stupid German rednecks, and mindless middle clases. We never learn.
Yes, War is hell, but then the bully is worse than hell, and these know nothing soldiers, who thought as a majority, nearly 70 percent, that Iraq attacked us, shows they are good Germans, er I mean good Amerikans, in the service of corporate fascism and imperiali policies.

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» RE: I understand your point but Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Don''t support this blather Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Perfectly Clueless Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Can someone back up this statement?
Posted by: Jim on Jul 27, 2007 4:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hedges writes, "War is also the pornography of violence. It has a dark beauty, filled with the monstrous and the grotesque. The Bible calls it "the lust of the eye" and warns believers against it."

As one who promotes Christian Pacifism (see Bible Pacifism) I would like to find support for this statement. Does anyone have references to any Bible scholars who make this point?

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Bullshit
Posted by: mark on Jul 27, 2007 4:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on this article. I had always thought (or hoped) that the Alternet editorial staff had enough common sense to not take the stance that the men and women of the military are criminals.
All I really have to say is, way to discredit yourselves guys. You've lost my respect. You're off in crazy country now.

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» RE: Bullshit Posted by: Bright Penny
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: leafsong1
» I know how you feel Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: maestra
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I know how you feel Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: WizardGad
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: sport
» Denial Posted by: zyxwvut
» 4GW Posted by: Nebris
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» RE: 4GW Posted by: Lauren
» Indeed. Posted by: ABetterFuture
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» RE: Bullshit Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: WizardGad
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: maddy
» RE: Mark will not reply because.... Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» So many excuses Posted by: mizipi
» RE: So many excuses Posted by: mark
» RE: So many excuses Posted by: mizipi
» RE: So many excuses Posted by: leafsong1
» Afghanistan is now no better Posted by: leafsong1
» Good observation, babs Posted by: mizipi
» RE: Good observation, babs Posted by: OhioPatriot
» Fair and Balanced........ Posted by: mizipi
» RE: Fair and Balanced........ Posted by: OhioPatriot
» Tell me .... Posted by: mizipi
» RE: Tell me .... Posted by: OhioPatriot
» $400 off your taxes Posted by: mizipi
Is there a link?
Posted by: mizipi on Jul 27, 2007 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of my buddies, a fellow Vietnam Era Vet who had to serve in Vietnam - (I thank the Creator of the Universe that I did not have to serve in Vietnam. My buddy was drafted, I enlisted.) - has changed a lot since the Iraq War began. He, like a lot of folks, drank dome beer every day, but he did work and function quite normally. About a year after the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" event, his drinking increased, he quit working, and has since been involved in three automobile accidents, all three of them his fault. Now he awakes and drinks a beer and drinks until he goes to bed.

I wonder if there is a link between what happened to him in Nam and what he sees happening in Iraq today? Does anyone else know of a similar situation? It is my opinion that he is re-living his Nam experience every time he hears about what is happening in Iraq today.

Young kids sent into the situation there are going through things few of us can imagine, I know that I cannot imagine the stress of daily life in Iraq. My buddy has talked about how he came to realize that the Vietnam War was all about rich people getting richer, while the Vietnamese paid the ultimate price. My buddy has two children, both were in college in 2003 when the War in Iraq began. He never wanted his children to have to serve in Iraq and so far he has gotten his wish, but he will not even discuss the possibility of a draft. Vietnam, like Iraq, has a lot of "collateral damage" hidden from the public. How many more problems are we creating in this world?

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» RE: Is there a link? Posted by: willymack
» RE: Is there a link? Posted by: Basenjis
» Thank goodness... Posted by: mizipi
» RE: Thank goodness...mizipi Posted by: Basenjis
» Vietnam/Iraq Posted by: lindalee
» RE: Is there a link? Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Is there a link? Posted by: WizardGad
» RE: Is there a link? Posted by: Lauren
» You are very perceptive Posted by: mizipi
» One more thing Posted by: mizipi
Awesome Important Moving Powerful Sad Story
Posted by: guanyin on Jul 27, 2007 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bravo Chris Hedges! This story is a masterpiece! I believe those who find it disrespectful or trite are suffering from the very sort of compassion desensitization and national idolatry of which the article speaks.

If only we evolved as a society by truly learning this ultimate, generic lesson of imperial war, then I would say the debacle in Iraq was arguably worth it. Perhaps the bright spot in its dismal legacy will be its remembrance as the war to end all wars.

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» Dude, take your medication! Posted by: mizipi
» RE: Dude, take your medication! Posted by: OhioPatriot
not as big a leap as you think--modern computer games
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 27, 2007 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am 52 and a computer tech. Recently in the course of my job I had a chance to work with some of the video games that are currently being sold and bought by teenagers. I was appalled at the graphic killing and explicit violence.

Watching and grimmacing at some of the stuff that these games do, I could not help but think how they imbue young people with violence and a propensity to easily kill. If any of you have seen "God of War" or "Killer 7"....you would agree.

They should have had this stuff back in the 60's. Wouldn't have had wimpy soldiers then.

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Quotations of Chief Warrant Officer Funk
Posted by: sausage on Jul 27, 2007 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On May 23, 2007 Des Moines Register writer John Carlson phoned-in this column by printing an e-mail from Chief Warrant Officer Jim Funk, a helicopter pilot with the Iowa National Guard. What follows are quotations from CWO Funk's e-mail.

"Hello media, do you know you indirectly kill American soldiers every day? You inspire and report the enemy's objective every day. You are the enemy's greatest weapon. The enemy cannot beat us on the battlefield so all he does is try to wreak enough havoc and have you report it every day. With you and the enemy using each other, you continually break the will of the American public and American government.

"We go out daily and bust and kill the enemy, uncover and destroy huge weapons caches and continue to establish infrastructure. So daily we put a whoopin on the enemy, but all the enemy has to do is turn on the TV and get re-inspired. He gets to see his daily roadside bomb, truck bomb, suicide bomber or mortar attack. He doesn't see any accomplishments of the U.S. military (FOX, you're not exempt, you suck also).

"We, the soldiers, keep breaking the back of the enemy. You, the media, keep rejuvenating the enemy.

"Media, we know you hate the George Bush administration, but report both sides, not just your one-sided agenda. You have got to realize how you are continually motivating every extremist, jihadist and terrorist to continue their resolve to kill American soldiers."


The way I interpret CWO Funk's statement is, his frustration arises not in how the "war" is being conducted by the Pentagon but that the "media" does not show enough video of American combat troops killing Iraqis.
"We go out daily and bust and kill the enemy..." "...daily we put a whoopin on the enemy...
"We, the soldiers, keep breaking the back of the enemy. You, the media, keep rejuvenating the enemy."

Perhaps if the media followed CWO Funk's advice, showing our victorious troops slaughtering Iraqis, up-close-and-personal, in technicolor glory on the cable 24/7 news channels, perhaps a few College Republicans would understand the extreme uncouthness of war and develop a conscience.

But, perhaps not. For many of the occupation's supporters, both here and in Iraq, the killing is little more than video game violence, unreality. After all, CWO Funk deals death from above, deus ex machina as it were, cleanly, never seeing the faces of those he kills.

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» RE: Quotations of Chief Warrant Officer Funk Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
And now the Tillman story breaks into MSM
Posted by: JoAnne on Jul 27, 2007 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please see: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/the_tillman_files.shtml for excellent background on this story.

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The Glorification of Obscenity
Posted by: Basenjis on Jul 27, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A wise man once said that the root of all human ills is ignorance. After a very long lifetime of observing life on this planet, I'm inclined to agree. If all the books and articles ever written on the subject of warfare were gathered into the largest library in the world, the shelves would overflow into the streets. And still we have not learned.

As our own technology grows, we are losing knowledge of the past, of our own history, militarily and culturally and we know almost nothing of the histories and cultures of other peoples. We are involved in violent combat now with a people with a long history of military struggle and oppression with a cutural history that puts ours to shame. Yet there are those who feel justified in sending our children off to fight an enemy about whom they know absolutely nothing.

Those who are most gungho to go off to war are always the very young, the most naive, the most uneducated, the most intellectually immature. So we send them off to slaughter and mutilate people who never lifted a hand against us for what our leader calls a "nobel cause."

Our politicians are very careful never to refer to a soldier involved in this impersonal bloodbath as anything but "our brave men and women," lest they be accused of not supporting the troops. I find it impossible to support anything about this war and the only thing that excuses the cruelty and wanton acts of our troops is their youth, inexperience and, yes, ignorance. I find nothing whatsoever to excuse in an administration that permits such abhorrent treatment of human beings. Those who support or enable the administration's warmongering are all complicit in the destruction of people trapped in their own crumbling cities but also of their own military volunteers, many of whom will come home with terribly broken bodies and nightmarish memories.

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» RE: The Glorification of Obscenity Posted by: blitzmesser
The problem witht the current system
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When China does trade, it's called "genocide"

When America bombs civilians, it's a "humanitarian intervention"

I say it's time for major emerging countries to simply stop funding the current racist apartheid system known as the UN. It's the west personal propaganda machine! Nothing more, and nothing less!

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Going Banal
Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Jul 27, 2007 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hedges writes: "...American Marines and soldiers have become socialized to atrocity." Hannah Arendt had another name for this: "The banality of evil."

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» RE: Going Banal Posted by: owleyes
Live by violence--die by same.
Posted by: solitarysherlockian on Jul 27, 2007 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Live by sword, die by sword. Hackneyed but unfortunately, true. IF only, if only all this energy and money had gone into things like healthcare, education, and other less sexy to US ventures.

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And another thing
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Admiting simply that something is WRONG, like sex tourism for example! Instead, the Anglo-Saxons media goes out of it's way to claim that prostitution is South-East Asia is supposedly fueled by the "locals"

It's simply about admiting that your wrong! Continuing the current DOOMED path of racism and opression will simply lead to another Soviet Union, nothing more, nothing less! Because at the end of the day, thats what happens to all failed states and ideologies! Racism and colonialism belong to the same place as communism and nazism;the 1800-century!

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Hadji
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 27, 2007 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hadji... ah, the "official" racist moniker for the enemy.

The US military has a policy of dehumanizing their enemies. Japs, Gooks, and now... Hadjis.

Is it telling that soldiers in Iraq are met with "these fucking Hadjis" talk from the Colonel the minute they get off the plane in Kuwait? So when the White House kept insisting they were "bringing schools and democracy" to Iraq did they tell the military? Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

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» schools Posted by: mizipi
» RE: schools Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: schools Posted by: mizipi
And the same goes to...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
nuclear weapons as well! The so called American "peace activists" scream about the "Indian nuclear threat" while the US is "quietly" updating it's arsenal.

These "deals" with the "global south and the "north"are absolutely RIDICULOUS! Your wealth is literally built on OUR WORK, and has been for as long as anyone can remember! Why should we make any "deals" with you? They only weaken us, since there always made by your rules? For once, i must agree with Ronald Reagan;"A no deal is better than a good deal!" And i say, that any "deal" between these two worlds is BAD! Maybe in a hundred years time when you finally realize the 1800 and 1900 centuties are OVER! Untill then, i say NO DEAL!!!

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» RE: And the same goes to... Posted by: owleyes
So have the American people
Posted by: dayahka on Jul 27, 2007 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, but calling the soldiers murderers just will not cut it--if you leave out the people those soldiers represent. Not just the soldiers, but the American people themselves have become quite comfortable not only with killing each other within the country, but with killing anyone (particularly the brown, black, and yellow people) who stand in the way of global hegemony. The current leadership of the country sets the tone for the entire country and they have shown disdain for every principle of civilized behavior, and have made it plain to the whole world that any means is justified by the end of preserving the American right to exploit the people and resources of the world for its own benefit...The poor soldiers reflect the system of which they are a part--they don't make the system.

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» RE: So have the American people Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: So have the American people Posted by: leafsong1
When will this insanity...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
STOP!?

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Hadji---where from?
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 27, 2007 10:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just gotta break in at this point with a question: where does the term "Hadji" come from in applying it to Iraqis?

Please don't tell me it is from Johnny Qwest's Indian friend in the cartoon show!

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» RE: Hadji---where from? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Hadji---where from? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Hadji---where from? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Hadji---where from? Posted by: colinmeister
Wow!
Posted by: Gravitas on Jul 27, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do we collectively have the compassion needed to heal such terrible wounds? I thought this article was extremely insightful. Personally, it did not prompt feelings of judgement, but a deep deep sorrow and a desire to "pray" for healing for all concerned.

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The Beltway Sniper
Posted by: Crazy H on Jul 27, 2007 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was a returning Iraq war vet. (From the first one, AKA, Operation Media Storm)

We desensitize these poor young people to killing, bring them home, and then what...?

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» RE: The Beltway Sniper Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
Why the fuss? Nazis AREN'T supposed to reflect their Commander(s)-in-chief?
Posted by: xbj on Jul 27, 2007 11:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is anyone surprised at the atrocities commited by German troops, civilians, and camp staff during WWII?

Didn't they reflect the values of their High Command?

Why should these Hitlers and their thugs be a shred different?

Anyone that thinks they should, obviously is living in a mom-and-apple pie 1940's American wet dream.

May they all wake up dead.

Because for such as these, there is no cure, and the world will not long survive as long as they live, thrive, and prosper.

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We can't keep doing this kind of thing
Posted by: janten on Jul 27, 2007 11:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It takes little in wartime to turn ordinary men into killers."

Ordinary men? No way. Most of them, especially the ones pulling the triggers, are kids. They are kids who should be home getting good educations and learning how to be loving, supporting, contributing members of our communities, states and country.

Instead, they are being killed so they can never live their lives nor bring the gifts of their presence and abilities into their families and their communities to help make our country great. Or they are being physically damaged, too often so badly that they become burdens rather than assets to all rather. And they are being damaged emotionally and mentally so that they become liabilities and dangers to all rather than productive citizens and loving parents.

The so called "men" in this war are not really in it. "Senior officers, protected in heavily fortified compounds, rarely saw combat." If they actually were out there in the thick of things, perhaps they might be able to make some better decisions about how to behave but, for the most part, I doubt it. This is war - of a sort, the worst sort - and it's tough. It's full of life threatening dangers complicated by endless uncertainties, where decisions need to be made and action taken fast and on the fly.

The kids who are faced with making these important decisions and taking action aren't qualified to be doing that. They have been trained to be killers - very modern, distant, high tech killers. Instead, they find themselves face to face with an unidentifiable enemy mixed in with ordinary folks just like themselves. And they're all scared - too scared to be able to make good decisions under the pressures they're dealing with. So, the scared Iraqis make poor decisions and the scared soldiers make poor decisions. And, because the soldiers have deadly weapons, the Iraqis pay with their lives, while the soldiers who survive pay with their souls, their hearts, their minds.

"... it is the battered wrecks of men and women who return from Iraq and speak the halting words we do not want to hear, words that we must listen to and heed to know ourselves. They tell us war is a soulless void. They have seen and tasted how war plunges us to barbarity, perversion, pain and an unchecked orgy of death. And it is their testimonies alone that have the redemptive power to save us from ourselves."

Some of these testimonies should be recorded. Every night, when G.W. Bush is ready to go to sleep, he should have to listen to one of these testimonies for his bedtime story. And he should have to listen to another one as soon as he wakes up. The same for Dick Cheney. After they are impeached and tried and convicted, as part of their punishment, they should have to continue to listen to these stories, every night and every morning . . . for the rest of their lives. And, if our elected representatives do not get moving on impeachment, each and everyone of them who is resisting doing so should also have to listen to these bedtime and wakeup stories until we get some action.

Also, from here on out, every president and vice president, whenever they might have occasion to consider going to war, should have to listen to some of these stories before making their decision. We can't keep doing this kind of thing to others, to each other, and to ourselves, and expect our world situation will ever improve.

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Hadji
Posted by: madaha on Jul 27, 2007 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Hadji is someone who's been on the Hadj - the pilgrimmage to Mecca. So turning a tenet of the Muslim relgion into an insult. Nice, huh? Muslim Americans must be outraged.

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» RE: Hadji Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Hadji Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Hadji Posted by: Lauren
No surpise!
Posted by: militaryhater on Jul 27, 2007 12:19 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to say, as most people reading this article, I am not surprised by the 'perpensity toward pomposity' by American military. Hajiis? come on. And what do the Iraqis call you I wonder?

I have no respect or COMPASSION for Camilo Mejia which seems to be lacking in his very soul. He also sounds mexican. So, with his glorious killing, did he get to become a U.S. citizen? Murder for citizenship? He has a conscious and he knew right from wrong and he stood back and did nothing. A yellow belly and a worthless human being. All humans who join the military know the PURPOSE of the military...it is to KILL, MURDER and OPPRESS. Don't BS the rest of America with this dribble that the Military is to blame. This is bunk. Anyone who joins wants and desires the power to kill others and do harm. They have to have a dark soul to do this and lack compassion for others.

My wish for him is to rot in the hell in his own mind with the atrocities he participated in and witnessed until the day of his death. May the people's lives who he destroyed and robbed from life haunt him into insanity! He isn't human to me at all but a MONSTER.

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» RE: No surpise! Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: No surpise! Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: No surpise! Posted by: blitzmesser
Help me stop the madness!
Posted by: sculptor on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The true villain here is an idea. The idea is that a war can be a good thing. Wars are never good and no one every wins one, one side merely loses less. The public has to become skeptical of the very notion of war. Help me build a peace "memorial" to help the nation learn how to mourn the lose of peace.Until we as a nation learn to value peace and distrust those who peach war we will be doomed to repeat wars like Iraq until America has destroyed itself.

http://www.bronzedreams.com/victory3d.html

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» RE: Help me stop the madness! Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Help me stop the madness! Posted by: sculptor
» RE: Help me stop the madness! Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: Help me stop the madness! Posted by: OhioPatriot
expect a wave of violent crime when this is all over
Posted by: jimbee on Jul 27, 2007 1:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is historical precedent for this going back literally hundreds of years. A small minority of these returning soldiers will become violent criminals. Crime has been falling, but that trend will probably reverse in a few years. In my cynical moments I think that's what the elites who brought us this war want. Crime breeds fear, and fear helps them rule.

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Shooting dogs in the face?
Posted by: fatbradley on Jul 27, 2007 1:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael Vick would love it over there! Maybe now that his football career, he can enlist and get paid to torture dogs. Even if he goes to jail for a few years, he won't have to worry. We'll still be in Iraq when he gets out.

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the terrible temptation to do good
Posted by: wleming on Jul 27, 2007 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Hedges knows his Bible: those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. But it does not end there, those who have lived by the sword bring with them a terrible legacy and a bleak destiny and its one that we will not escape.

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the terrible temptation to do good
Posted by: wleming on Jul 27, 2007 3:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Hedges knows his Bible: those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. But it does not end there, those who have lived by the sword bring with them a terrible legacy and a bleak destiny and its one that we will not escape.

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Real consequences of warfare.
Posted by: zipp28 on Jul 27, 2007 3:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What this article is is the perspectives of what warfare manifests inside the society, either side for sure, only death and distruction.....during Vietnam and after, very large numbers of men who were there brought it home and many never made it back to their sanity.....it is instructive to note that none of the top level government men where ever there and so do not have those particular deep scars. We, american denizens live a fantasy life inside a culture where all is for sale.
The soul, the heart, morality, natural resourses all. When ever there is a time when human's stop that warfare folly we will then possibly become indeed human, with soul and with heart and with morality. Obviously those who wage war, and those who bought into it, and those who are subjected to the destructions first hand are persons who have no joy......
It seems that those who wage war are persons who are indeed incomplete, and those who were on their way to becoming complete will most likely not be able to become so. At one time many years after "nam" there were some 500,000 ex military people inside U.S. prisons....that figure sticks inside my mind each time I hear or read some fool apologist/warmaker speak about "honor' and "duty"........
There is a sickness that lies deep inside those who cannot allow themselves to live fully and creatively and they indeed stain the rest of us for their deep dark lack of being.......and there, right there at that stain all humans indeed must recognize what it means to destroy the lives of so many fellow humans that happen to be labeled "the enemy". The Iragi war at present is somewhere in the area of 700,000 dead......we should think on that figure for a long long time....as we dodge the bullets of the next bunch of joyless greed heads with their deep stinking bull shit.

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Extreme Hazard For Any Whistleblower Who Tries To Report Atrocities
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Jul 27, 2007 4:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wesley Clark says Pat Tillman was murdered because he had seen enough of the war and was planning to meet with anti-war spokesmen such as Noam Chomsky when he returned to the States. Check out http://www.prisonplanet.com/ articles/july2007/270707tillmanexecuted.htm
Note the space in the link after "com/" because the text editor refuses to allow character strings over 60 char. Just paste the link and remove the space to read the full story.

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I knew this would happen and this is why I opposed this war from the beginning
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Jul 27, 2007 6:30 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How these war supporters can live with themselves is beyond my imagining. They are either just nazis or the stupidest pieces of chickenshit ignoramouses ever spawned.

The toll in Iraq: Half a million dead and 2 million have fled their homes. And the warmongers still whine about how "the Iraqis are better off this way than with Saddam". But of course, call for a national referendum all thru Iraq on whether the US soldiers should stay, go home, or be tried as war criminals, and the right-wing in this country suddenly does not care about "hadji opinions". Pretty neat trick to claim you are a liberator one minute, then turn a country into a hell-hole, all the while sleeping like a baby!

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Chris Hedges: Master mudslinger
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 27, 2007 7:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Suppose I wrote an opinion piece for AlterNet that started out saying, “All Catholic priests who serve in American parishes and have contact with altar boys are placed in sexual-abusing situations."

The operative term, of course, is “all” – which makes the allegation absurd on its face.

Chris Hedges did the same thing in his opening sentence by saying, "ALL troops, when they occupy and battle insurgent forces, as in Iraq, or Gaza or Vietnam, are placed in atrocity producing situations."

Hedges is not a journalist. The male version of Ann Coulter, he’s a master mudslinger who makes his living writing outrageous opinion pieces that smear innocent people with reckless generalizations. He should be ashamed of himself.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran and proud of it with a family history of honorable military service going back to 1776.

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Is it really like this?
Posted by: tjcannon on Jul 27, 2007 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am currently in a heavily populated area of Baghdad, and was operating in more rural areas on my last deployment. This article may be valid, but I feel I should share my opinion on the matter. Although some units may lack discipline, most of the acts you have mentioned are severely punished, or if justifiable, seriously regretted in a well-disciplined unit.

I feel things are dramatized to elicit an emotional response from the reader. In every war, especially one conducted by an Army which has relaxed its enlistment standards to get more troops, there will be soldiers who choose the easy wrong over the hard right. It is regrettable that they will not always be punished, but I believe they are in most of the cases. It is difficult to take a stance on this war that does not lean heavily to one side or the other, but I believe picking the minority out of the 150,000+ soldiers and presenting them as the norm is unfairly biased.

I have particular issues with the statements about checkpoints and the way we drive. It is impossible to imagine the fear and the moral argument that happens inside your head in what is often a split-second decision. We put out VERY clear markers indicating a static checkpoint ahead. People know we are here. They know there are suicide bombers. If they decide to speed up as they approach a checkpoint rather than slowing down, they must be stopped. Unfortunately there is no way to know for sure a driver's intentions. And I have heard of at least one instance where a suicide bomber had his two kids in the car in order to get close to a checkpoint, so even that cannot be a black and white situation. As far as driving in the opposite lane of traffic, that comment is glaringly obvious for anyone who's been here. That's one of the first things I noticed when I came over here the first time. EVERYONE drives on the wrong side of the road if it's convenient. Iraqi civilians, IA, IP, us... it's just the way things work around here. As for hitting civilian vehicles, I can't imagine us doing that unless it was necessary, but if some jackass private is doing it and whoever's supposed to be in charge of him is allowing him to do it, the owner of the vehicle can go to the nearest US base and be reimbursed. Granted, this should not be a problem they have to deal with, but there is an easy solution for them to have their property replaced.

Sure some lower enlisted kids may have a disturbingly callous view of the people here, but there exist chains of command, which are in place to make sure soldiers are doing the right thing.

I disagree with a lot of the things you've said (even though I do not support this war.) I think our responsibility as long as they're going to keep us here is to do the best we can and make sure their soldiers get trained to perform their jobs and deal with the corruption within their ranks when we leave.

As for the comment that I am a false repository of glory and honor, you must know I disagree with you there. Instead of thinking of us as men celebrated and decorated for the violence we have committed, instead try to think of us as the men who have volunteered our lives to protect America from her enemies. Sure we are involved in a pretty unpopular conflict right now, but we are being used as tools of politicians bent on convincing the world that they are fighting evil. Do not despise me because I am fighting a pointless war. Respect me because when this war is over I will be training and maintaining my combat effectiveness during a time of peace so that if there is ever a threat to our country I can give my all to defend her and protect your way of life.

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» RE: Is it really like this? Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Is it really like this? Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Is it really like this? Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Is it really like this? Posted by: leafsong1
A Foolish War
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2007 8:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with Iraq is, of course, the nature of this war itself. It's not a war with clear objectives (such as occupying land) for the USA. Presumably, it's just to help stabilize the country and the Maliki government. That it's now an all out civil war is no doubt more than the USA bargained for. That is is not winnable is something not accepted yet by USA politicians either. Supposedly, Al Queda is a big threat now in Iraq. But, it's actually in Pakistan that Al Queda has its bases and presumably Osama is there as well. Last I checked, however, 160,000 US troops are in Iraq, not Pakistan. Are then they just to continue being an apparent "lightning rod," for Al Queda, and how much sense does this make? The comparisons to Vietnam are of course, inevitable. But, what will be sadder yet is when all the soldiers finally come home from Iraq. Already we are told of the post traumatic stress disorder that thousands of them have. It will only be worse when the soldiers finally realize America does not care either. Just as after Vietnam, we will see them ultimately, by the thousands, in the homeless shelters and in the prisons. As for Iraq, the Saudi's and Iranians, along with the Kurds, already have their dibbs in on the place. Let them, "divide her up," and let's get our troops out now. Time to cut America's losses on this folly, and fast!

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» A Foolish Post Posted by: leafsong1
Enough is...
Posted by: TT5 on Jul 27, 2007 10:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ENOUGH!

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When will this...
Posted by: TT5 on Jul 27, 2007 10:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MADNESS stop?

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When will the...
Posted by: TT5 on Jul 28, 2007 12:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
INSANE killing stop?

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» Obviously... Posted by: TT5
USA won the war
Posted by: richholland on Jul 28, 2007 2:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
during the second world war 5% of many European countries was politically believing the national socialisme would improve quality of life, about 10% believed in Communisme..
Thousands of Iraqis fled to Europe and America hating Saddam Houssein
Why are they not going back to free their country from the sjeiks and imams, give their brothers the benefit of DEMOCRazy and freedom.?????????

If the only enemies are some Talibans and AlQuadas the majority of the Irak people would support their fellowmen.
Could it bepossible that the political and economucal benefits the american people are giving in good faith to the Iraqis are not understood or not wanted????

Why not hundreds of Feminists come to free their sisters from surpession and theprison of the veil????
Where are they????

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» RE: USA won the war Posted by: leafsong1
And stop...
Posted by: TT5 on Jul 28, 2007 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
interfering into Asias internal affairs using yout little PUPPET!

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rex9565
Posted by: rex9565 on Jul 28, 2007 10:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two lessons learned from Vietnam and Iraq are don't send soldiers into a war against a foreign culture they know nothing about and where they don't know the language. Soldiers in harms way from an enemy that is not in uniform will always err on the side of saving their own lives.

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rex9565
Posted by: rex9565 on Jul 28, 2007 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two lessons learned from Vietnam and Iraq are don't send soldiers into a war against a foreign culture they know nothing about and where they don't know the language. Soldiers in harms way from an enemy that is not in uniform will always err on the side of saving their own lives.

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WAR GIVES US MEANING
Posted by: jjz999 on Jul 28, 2007 2:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AMERICA ALMOST ALWAYS TARGETS CIVILIANS. IN WWII, IT WAS FORMAL POLICY. THE IDEA WAS IF YOU BOMBED THE CIVILIANS ENOUGH THEY WOULD RISE-UP AND FIGHT AGAINST THEIR OWN ARMY. AFTER ALL AMERICA WAS BUILT ON SLAVERY AND THE GENOCIDE REQUIRED TO ACHIEVE OUR 'MANIFEST DESTINY.'

AS GEN. SMEDLEY BUTLER POINTS OUT IN "WAR IS A RACKET", ALL OUR COLONIAL WARS, LIKE IRAQ, WERE FOUGHT AT THE BEHEST OF AMERICAN CORPORATIONS THAT WERE BESET BY STRIKES OR SOME OTHER IRRITANT, WHICH ALMOST ALWAYS MEANT SUPPRESSING CIVILIANS. THE US MILITARY WERE MERELY CORPORATE ENFORCERS IN THE SPIRIT OF AL CAPONE.

AN INTERESTING STORY ABOUT IRAQ IS THAT A NUMBER OF FEMALE SOLDIERS RESTRICTED THEIR INTAKE OF FLUIDS TO AVOID HAVING TO URINATE DURING THE NIGHT. THE FEMALE SOLDIERS WERE TRYING TO AVOID BEING RAPED BY THEIR MALE COMRADES. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS STRATEGY LED TO THE DEATHS OF A NUMBER OF FEMALE SOLDIERS BY REASON OF DEHYDRATION. GEN. SANCHEZ SOLVED THE PROBLEM BY PROHIBITING DEHYDRATION FROM BEING REPORTED AS A CAUSE OF DEATH.

ABOUT A YEAR BEFORE HIS EXECUTION, DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. GAVE A SPEECH ABOUT HIS REALIZATION THAT THERE IS NEVER, GUNS AND BUTTER, JUST GUNS. LBJ HAD RAMRODED LEGISLATION THROUGH CONGRESS ENFORCING THE CENTURY-OLD AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION OUTLAWING SLAVERY AND ESTABLISHING OTHER PROGRESSIVE SOCIAL PROGRAMS. UNFORTUNATELY, LBJ ALSO FOLLOWED JFK'S PATH TO THE QUAGMIRE OF VIET NAM SURROUNDED BY 'THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST.' KING SAW THE DOMESTIC PROGRAMS WITHER ON THE VINE IN ORDER TO KILL MORE ASIAN PEASANTS. TODAY, BUSH HAS COMPLETED THE TRANSFORMATION OF AMERICA INTO A FASCIST STATE PERMANENTLY AT WAR BEGUN BY RAYGUN.

IRAQ IS A SUCCESS FOR BUSH. ALMOST FROM THE STAR BUSH WENT FOR THE 'SALVADOR OPTION' (NURTURING SHIA DEATH SQUADS). NOW BUSH IS NURTURING SUNNI JIHADIST GROUPS AFFILIATED WITH AL QAEDA THAT SAUDI PRINCE BANDOR SAYS HATE SHIA AND PERSIANS MORE THAN AMERICANS. BUSH IS JUST TAKING HIS CUE FROM 'THE MAN OF PEACE' SHARON. BESIDES IMMISERATING THE OCCUPIED TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT POSSIBLE, THE INVADER NURTURES ETHNIC, CONFESSIONAL, RACIAL AND SECTARIAN VIOLENCE AMONG THE OCCUPIED. CONVERTING THE MIDDLE EAST INTO 30 OR SO STATELETS WILL GIVE US BIG OIL A BETTER BARGAINING POSITION, LIKE THE LAWS BEING PUSHED FROM THE GET-GOT THAT WOULD PRIVATIZE IRAQI OIL TO THE BENEFIT OF US BIG OIL.

IF AMERICA IS TO BE MADE A REPUBLIC, THE MILITARY HAS TO BE CUT TO THE BONE, AS THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND EISENHOWER WARNED. THIS HAD BEEN THE AMERICAN WAY UNTIL THE OVER-HYPED COLD WAR (OR THE FALL OF THE SOVIET UNION). BUSH IS FUNNELING THREE QUARTERS OF A TRILLION DOLLARS FROM THE TREASURY TO HIS CRONY FELLOW WAR PROIFITEERS. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO THE TROOPS OR THE VETERANS.

BUT IT WON'T HAPPEN. THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT UNITED ON AN IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL FROM IRAQ. AND THEY'VE KOWTOWED TO AIPAC ABOUT USING MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAN. ISRAEL IS NOT AN AMERICAN INTEREST AND IS NOT WORTH ONE AMERICAN LIFE. GIVING ISRAEL $3 BILLION A YEAR IN MILITARY AID TO SUPPRESS THE PALESTINIANS JUST MAKES ISRAEL'S MANIFEST WAR CRIMES THOSE OF THE AMERICANS AS THE REST OF THE PLANET SEES IT.

WHEN BUSH ATTACKS IRAN, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE OVER-EXTENDED AMERICAN SUPPLY LINES WILL BE INTERDICTED AND HOW MANY AMERICAN SOLDIERS WILL SUFFER THE SAME FATE AS THOSE RAPE-ADVERSE FEMALE SOLDIERS.

FOR THOSE WHO TAKE TO THE SOCIOPATHIC MILITARY LIFE-STYLE, THEY CAN ALWAYS BECOME MERCENARIES. THE US HAS ALMOST AS MANY MERCENARIES IN IRAQ AS IT HAS FORMAL SOLDIERS. THE PAY IS A WHOLE LOT BETTER AND BUSH ORDAINED THAT MERCENARIES ARE SUBJECT TO NO LAWS.. WITH BUSH'S PENCHANT FOR PRIVATIZING GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS, THERE SHOULDN'T BE A SHORTAGE OF JOBS. AND BUSH USES THEM DOMESTICALLY TOO, AT LEAST IN NEW ORLEANS.

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» RE: WAR GIVES US MEANING Posted by: Ian MacLeod
The other shoe drops...
Posted by: Pirate1 on Jul 28, 2007 5:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When somebody sane finally gets in power here and ends the war and all those people come HOME and try to live normal lives here... what's going on there?... it's only the beginning.

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Now We know
Posted by: macdon1 on Jul 28, 2007 5:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading this article it is clear why the Arabs hate us.

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» RE: Now We know Posted by: opeluboy
After rereading Antonia Juhasz's incredible book, I am reminded why there is an Iraqi insurgency.
Posted by: yellow on Jul 29, 2007 9:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the things pointed out in her book published just last year was the initial treatment of Iraqis was barbaric from the very start. She pointed out that the Iraqis went for nearly half a year without electricity even after the cessation of official hostilities. This meant surviving dangerous 125 degree tempetures, no clean water, the inability to refrigerate food and keep it fresh, and no cold drinks, untreated sewage, and all the other consequences of no electricity. This represented more than just a major inconvenience...people died in droves as a consequence many of them very young or old or infirm. The US engineering firm Bechtel, a highly connected Republican supporting US MNC, received well over $3 billion in US government contracts to work on reconstruction projects including getting the electricity going. They did a poor job to say the least.

One of the things that Juhasz points out is the racist attitudes of US military personel and contractors. There was an implicit assumption that Iraqis were backward folks who were used to such conditions. The opposite was the case. Under Saddam, Iraqis may have been politically silenced but they had the highest standard of living in the Middle East save for that of Israel. It was the war and occupation that reduced modern Iraq to "backwardness." Juhasz explains that US firms like Bechtel worked on expensive, flashy projects that showcased its skills rather than commit time, money, and effort to getting average Iraqi communities back on their feet. Bechtel was looking at having long term post war influence and control in key sectors of the new Iraqi economy, not extending humanitarian reconstruction. The result, says Juhasz, was a resentful insurgency.

CorpWatch, last year explained the US government's withdrawl of a $50 million contract for Bechtel was due to poor performance. SIGOR, the new reconstruction contract oversight agency, apparently decided that some action needed to be taken just to maintain some credibility as an oversight agency. In Iraq today there is less than 2 hour daily average electricity, nearly 70% unemployment, 68% have no safe drinking water and over 80% have no access to a functioning sewege system. There has been over 700,000 Iraqis killed by US troops, terrorism, and just outright wretched living conditions. The US has killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did. This could be one reason US troops face a determined insurgency. There is no military solution. The time for political negotiations leading to a US withdrawl is long overdue.

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Waterboy
Posted by: Waterboy on Jul 30, 2007 6:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever I read articles such as this, I compel myself to keep two relevant facts in mind. First and foremost, the genesis of it all was the lies perpetrated by their own government that placed our troops in Iraq and exposed them to such lethal circumstances. And secondly, the Iraqi citizens that they now encounter were, on 9-11, completely unrelated to, and innocent of, the execution of that crime which was fraudulently used as the basis for the participation our troops in the invasion of Iraq. Keeping those two critical facts in mind allows me always recall how absolutely pointless, cruel and criminal this Bush-contrived "war" is.

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Murder?
Posted by: ldr on Jul 30, 2007 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why has Alternet resorted to this kind of propaganda? There was nothing in Hedges' essay to corroborate his claim that U.S. soldiers are murderers. Even if all of the anecdotal accounts he supplied were true, the very most one could conclude is that some cases needed to be investigated and that some military courts might need to be convened. I am increasingly disappointed by the lack of critical thinking on display here. We don't need another propaganda machine: Bush has that ground covered.

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» RE: Murder? Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Murder? Posted by: Francis
Truth
Posted by: opeluboy on Jul 30, 2007 7:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hedges is of course on target and could probably have put more revolting material in this piece if he had wanted to.

For those out there that think he went too far, remember please that about 60% or more of our troops in Iraq still falsely believe that Saddam was directly involved in 9-11 and that he also had ties to al Qaida. That this fantasy is believed by heavily armed young men in the middle of a civil war who are being shot at and blown to bits certainly could contribute to them behaving less than decently toward the civilians who surround them.

That of course is not an excuse. There is none, as we so haughtily demonstrated (and conveniently and immediately forgot) at Nuremburg.

One must also remember that a good many of these soldiers couldn't have found Iraq on a map (and many still couldn't) before their tours and know virtually nothing about the history, the people or the religion of the country they are destroying. But the same could also be said for the average American. This ignorance has been further perverted by our media's decades-long (intentional) demonization of all things Arab/Muslim. Again, ignorance is not a lawful alibi.

We are told endlessly, by no less than our covey of Democratic presidential hopefuls, that we must support the troops, but not the war. I support neither.

Joining the military does not relieve one of morality, conscience or the duty to do what is right (again, established at Nuremburg, or is this just a rule for Nazis?). With 1,000,000 or so Iraqis needlessly dead, our economy wrecked, the entire Middle East about to catch fire, our world-standing destroyed and our freedoms eroding daily, I can hardly thank our troops for making it all possible.

But that's the country we live in. The military is worshipped. All soldiers are heroes.

I'm sorry, but to me a hero is one who refuses to kill for a lie, to destroy a nation for a paycheck or to create the greatest exodus since WW II because someone simply told him to.

I see absolutely nothing to honor here. It is a waste of life, both American and Iraqi. We are not involved in a noble cause, but a transparently evil and greedy destruction and theft of a country that did us no harm whatsoever. Those who particpate in that destruction and theft are war criminals. Sorry. They are no different from storm troopers following the illegal orders of their officers.

And I don't care how many claim to be Christians. They can pray all they want. Jesus is not with them.

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» RE: Truth Posted by: turbocrusher
believe it
Posted by: Ames on Aug 1, 2007 9:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Voltaire once said, those who can persuade us to believe absurdities can persuade us to commit atrocities.

Most of America swallowed the war against terror hook, line and sinker in the beginning. Is it any wonder that American soldiers are committing war crimes when you look at the willingness of people to believe what they're told. Look at the leadership of the military and the country.

Individuals should be held accountable only when their leaders are held accountable, and that goes all the way to the top.

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Francis
Posted by: Francis on Aug 2, 2007 3:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people do not deserve to be called soldiers. They are deranged, uneducated, sadistic ignoramuses who have been trained by equally useless slobs and let loose upon a population of their betters.

From the lowliest mudering punk to oval office monkey boy, they should all be gassed. Nuremberg was a bad joke which becomes even moreso every day. How are these worms to be distinguished from Nazis other than the fact that the Nazis were ten thousand times superior to them in every soldierly way.

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» RE: Francis Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: Francis Posted by: Francis
» RE: Francis Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: Francis Posted by: OhioPatriot
Stop Rationalizing
Posted by: eagleeye on Aug 4, 2007 5:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you served in the Marine Corps as I assume you haven't, You'll know that there are high percentage of homicdal maniacs. They are that way when they join. My fire team leader was a case in point. Although many of us had joined the Marines in order to fight the Japanese because of their sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, he had nothing against them. He admired them. They were a worthy opponent. He loved killing them. My father was a killer. He had fought in Europe in World War I and never tired of tell about those he's killed. He had the medals to prove it.

These people don't care who they're killing, just as long as they are killing. Those who dropped napalm on resettlement camps in Vietnam had no contact with the people they massacred. It was just fun. They called it Barbaque Runs. As a Refugee Advisor in the Mekong Delta I saw plenty of genocide. I've written entensively about it, but no publisher wants to touch it.

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we lost the war
Posted by: clint in Assos on Aug 4, 2007 10:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US is its own worst enemy in an evil war we started on innocent bomb victims. Blood on our hands everywhere.

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DUH, What do you think soldiers do? They KILL!
Posted by: odcherenow on Aug 6, 2007 1:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a harebrained article throughout.
Who is missing the fact that your young men, and now our young women - god bless us - have been sent out to kill others in wars, ad infinitum????
Is it a surprise that when the trained killers reenter US society rapes and murders escalate. Read the stat's for 1919-'25 and 1947 to 51 when they started creating jobs for the returning soldiers.

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