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Israel's 40 Years of Occupation: From Democratic State to Violent Oppressor

By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted June 5, 2007.


Israel captured and occupied the Gaza Strip and the West Bank 40 years ago this week. Over that time, Israel's image has shifted from that of an open society set amid a sea of despotic regimes to that of an international pariah.
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Israel captured and occupied the Gaza Strip and the West Bank 40 years ago this week. The victory was celebrated as a great triumph, at once tripling the size of the land under Israeli control, including East Jerusalem. It was, however, a Pyrrhic victory.

As the occupation stretched over the decades, it transformed and deformed Israeli society. It led Israel to abandon the norms and practices of a democratic society until, in the name of national security, it began to routinely accept the brutal violence of occupation and open discrimination and abuse of Palestinians, including the torture of prisoners and collective reprisals for Palestinians attacks. Palestinian neighborhoods, olive groves and villages were, in the name of national security, bulldozed into the ground.

Israel's image has shifted from that of a heroic, open society set amid a sea of despotic regimes to that of an international pariah. Israel's West Bank separation barrier, built ostensibly to keep out Palestinian bombers, has also been used to swallow huge tracts of the West Bank into Israel. Palestinian towns are ringed by Israeli checkpoints. Major roads in the West Bank are reserved for Israeli settlers.

The U.N. estimates that about half the West Bank is now off-limits to Palestinians. And every week there are new reports of Palestinian produce that is held up until it rots, pregnant women giving birth in cars because they cannot get to hospitals, and even senseless and avoidable deaths, such as one young woman who died recently when she couldn't get through a checkpoint to her kidney dialysis treatment.

"We are raising commanders who are policemen," former Israeli General Amiram Levine told the newspaper Maariv. "We ask them to excel at the checkpoint. What does it means to excel at the checkpoint? It means being enough of a bastard to delay a pregnant woman from getting to the hospital."

The occupation was benign at the beginning. Israelis crossed into Palestinian territory to buy cheap vegetables, eat at local restaurants, spend the weekend in the desert oasis of Jericho and get their cars fixed. The Palestinians were a pool of cheap labor and by the mid-1980s, 40 percent of the Palestinian workforce was employed in Israel.

The Palestinians flowed over the border to the shops and beaches of Tel Aviv. But the second-class status of Palestinians, growing repression by Israeli authorities in the West Bank and Gaza and festering poverty saw Palestinians, most of them too young to remember the moment of occupation, rise up in December 1987 to launch six years of street protests. The uprising eventually led to a peace accord between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization led by Yasir Arafat. Arafat, who had spent most of his life in exile, returned in triumph to Gaza.

The Oslo Accords that followed momentarily heralded a new era, a moment of hope. I was in Gaza when they were signed. The Gaza Strip was awash in a giddy optimism. Palestinian businessmen who had made their fortunes abroad returned to help build the new Palestinian state. The radical Islamists seemed to shrink away. Palestinian women threw off their head scarves and beauty salons sprouted on city streets. There was a brief and shining sense that life could be normal, free from strife and violence, that finally Palestinians had a future.

But it all swiftly turned sour. The 1995 assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, coupled with mounting draconian restrictions on Palestinians to prevent them from entering Israel and keep them in submission, led to another uprising in 2000. This one, which I also covered for The New York Times, was far more violent.

This latest uprising has led to the deaths of more than 4,300 Palestinians and 1,100 Israelis. It ushered in an Israeli policy that saw Jewish settlers relocated from Gaza. Gaza was then sealed off like a vast prison. Israel also began to build a security barrier -- at a cost of about $ 1 million per mile -- in the West Bank. When it is done, the barrier is expected to incorporate 40 percent of Palestinian land into the Israeli state.

Israeli air strikes have, over the past year, decimated the infrastructure in Gaza, destroying bridges, power stations and civilian administration buildings. The breakdown in law and order, coupled with the growing desperation in Gaza, has triggered an internecine conflict between Hamas and Fatah. There are some 200 Palestinians who have died in clashes and street fighting between the two factions during the past year -- more than one-third of those killed by Israel during the same period.

The Israeli abuses have been well documented, not only by international human rights organizations, but Israeli human rights groups such as B'Tselem. On June 4, 2007, Amnesty International released a new 45-page report called "Enduring Occupation: Palestinians Under Siege in the West Bank," which again illustrates the devastating impact of four decades of Israeli military occupation.

The report documents the relentless expansion of unlawful settlements on occupied land. It details the ways Israel has seized or denied crucial resources, such as water, to Palestinians under occupation. It documents a plethora of measures that confine Palestinians to fragmented enclaves and hinder their access to work, health and education facilities. These measures include the 700-kilometer barrier or wall, more than 500 checkpoints and blockades, and a complicated system of permits to heavily restrict movement.

"Palestinians living in the West Bank are blocked at every turn. This is not simply an inconvenience -- it can be a matter of life or death. It is unacceptable that women in labor, sick children, or victims of accidents on their way to hospital should be forced to take long detours and face delays which can cost them their lives," said Malcolm Smart, director of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Program.

"International action is urgently needed to address the widespread human rights abuses being committed under the occupation, and which are fueling resentment and despair among a predominantly young and increasingly radicalized Palestinian population," said Smart. "For 40 years, the international community has failed to adequately address the Israeli-Palestinian problem; it cannot, must not, wait another 40 years to do so."

Of Gaza's 1.4 million residents, a staggering 1.1 million now depend on outside food assistance. The World Food Program has identified Gaza as one of the world's hunger global hot spots. The WFP is a principal food aid provider to Palestinians, providing assistance to 640,000 Palestinians, more than a third of them in Gaza.

The desperation -- with young men unable to find work, travel outside the Gaza Strip or West Bank and forced to sleep 10 to a room in concrete hovels without running water -- has empowered the Islamic radicals. The desperation has led the Palestinian population, once one of the most secular in the Middle East, to turn to radical fundamentalism. The more pressure and violence Israel employs, the more these radicals are empowered.

The Israeli lobby in the United States is captive to the far right of Israeli politics. It exerts influence not on behalf of the Jewish state but an ideological strain within Israel that believes it can crush Palestinian aspirations through force.

The self-defeating policies of the Bush administration are mirrored in the self-defeating policies championed by the hard-right administration of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem. Israel flouts international law and dismisses Security Council resolutions to respect the integrity of Palestinian territory. It has instead trapped Palestinians in squalid, barricaded ghettos where they barely survive.

It is not in Israel's interest -- or our own -- to continue to fuel increased Palestinian strife and rising militancy. Economic sanctions against Israel are our last hope. These were the tools that toppled the apartheid regime in South Africa. And it was, after all, the sanctions imposed by the first President Bush -- he suspended $10 billion of loan guarantees for resettling Russian immigrants in Israel -- that prodded right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir to attend peace talks in Madrid.

A trade embargo -- even if imposed only by European states -- would be a start. It is outside pressure that can alone halt the inexorable slide into a conflict that could become regional. And a new regional conflict with Israel could spell the end of the Zionist experiment in the Middle East. It may be quixotic, perhaps even impossible, but it is the last measure left to save Israel from itself.

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See more stories tagged with: israel, palestine

Chris Hedges is a veteran journalist and former Mideast bureau chief for The New York Times. His most recent book is "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America."

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Nazi?
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Jun 5, 2007 1:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Jerusalem Post reported that Mordechai made this ruling in a letter to Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert citing biblical
authority. The letter was published in a weekly journal distributed in synagogues throughout Israel. The report states that "According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets."

Eliayahu's son, Shmuel Eliayhu, himself chief rabbi of Safad,
amplified his father's comments, stating: "If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand." He added, "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.""

2 imperfect, angry neighbours

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» Imperialism at it's finest Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Imperialism at it's finest Posted by: Conservasaurus
Bull
Posted by: RDVSR on Jun 5, 2007 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Russia has occupied slices of Estonia, Finland and never offered to return them. Plus they "settled" hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians in Estonia and Latvia who should be returned to Russia. Why are you not demanding all this be rectified? Russia occupies part of Poland, and Poland occupies part of Germany. Isn't it time for the occupiers to get out of there? The problem with Israel is that they gave back part of the land they conquered which only made Arabs want more.

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» RE: Bull Posted by: moflard
» What a racist comment! Posted by: JusticeForAll
» RE: What a racist comment! Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: What a racist comment! Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: What a racist comment!--Really? Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Bull Posted by: drcyflowers
Europeans?...You must be kidding.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jun 5, 2007 3:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They make snooty comments about how uncouth, barbaric, and imperialistic we are, then look the other way while we do business as usual. That's their game.

Blair is the worst, telling them that the US should be calling any minute now about striking a fair deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians, or doing something about global warming. The check's in the mail, Tony--wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

European trade embargo? Ha! When they're done sitting around, sipping overpriced wine, and joking about rude American tourists, maybe they'll think about it.

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Zionism is now more than class nationalism, colonialism, apartheid
Posted by: Universal on Jun 5, 2007 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the best historical sources for early Zionism, and the creation of the Israeli state is Ilan Pappe, part of the historical movement and revision of national myths, in the 80's and 90's, due to the declassification of documents as it relates to the creation of the state. Illan Pappe accuses the West, including the Soviet Union, of complicity and silence on the fascist methods, racist methods, ethnic cleansing on which the state of Israel took more than their share already to depopulate Palestinians through village massacres and dispossession, always denied as one of the great myths, by nationalist Jews, that Palestinians left willingly at the urging of Arab armies and governments.

He, Illan Pappe accuses the West of this complicit fascist silence, who would have condemened these mehtods severely if it had been Black, Brown, or third world peoples. Recently, Paul Craig Roberts, and others on Counterpunch have also written about the Israeli attack on the U.S. intelligence ship, the Liberty, which knew that Israel was the aggressor, and was executing prisoners of war, and therefore decided to sink it to prevent such information from being revealed. Recently an article was written, that Robert McNamarra, the war criminal in Vietnman, could and should be prosecuted for failure to aid Amerrican military personnell, because the West already was in a deep fascist imperial alliance with Israel, and willing to overlook the attack, an attack that by any other country would have been used by the U.S. to start its own imperial adventure, a dream that the neocons hope will happen with Iran.

This complicity between two rogue states, imperial states, fascist, colonial, racist regimes is mislabled "democracy", when in fact both Western states are occupiers, imperialists, and use "democracy", like Hilter used "socialism", like toilet paper, to hide behind the rot of class rule, class nationalism, and class empire. You cannot call these two countries, Israel and the U.S. real democracies, when its criminal elites have based their class rule on fascist, nationalist imperial policies. The corporate media is complicit in this fundamental denial, and routinely ignores the fascist occupation of Palestinians, and still ignores the real history of ethnic cleansing by early Zionists, especially the Washington Post, New York Times and NPR zionist radio.

Fascism murdered millions of Jews, socialists, marxists, trade unionists, gays and others, then how is it possible that all Western governments have failed to understand the corporate and class nationalist link to fascist foreign policies?
The asnwer is ideological, both conservative and liberal class elites have always denied that German corporate fascism, and Italy's fascist corproate state, financed both Hilter and Mussolini, with their corrupted midde layers, as shock troops for Class and imperial nationalism and support of Capitalist brutality. Fascism was defeated militarily, but its class ideology, Corporate state, have been made the norm of the Post World War/ Cold war period.

The class elties of both Israel and Amerika, especially, have transformed the "never again", to the class ideology, of "eve again", having learned nothing from the Holocaust, or the class rot and degeneration of Class rule which today imposes its fascist will on Palestinians, Lebanese, and the Arab world, no thanks to their own enablers, the so called "moderate" class whoring Arab states and religious clerics, with their own form of class nationalism, all of them in a death cycle, communal violence, and civil war, yet no class society able to learn the connection between its failures and Corporate, national degeneration. How does a state, whose Jews, were ethnically cleansed by Nazis, class nationalists, then turn around and uses these same tactics on its Arab neighbors, condemning the World for allowing fascism? Now that is Chutzpah

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AIPAC and Hillary Clinton
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 5, 2007 4:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before AlterNet lefties accuse me of being anti-Semitic, as someone who visited Dachau and the Ann Frank House while touring Europe in 1966, I was at one time an ardent supporter of Israel -- back when it followed humanistic Hebrew law.

Now, sadly, because of the fascist Likud Party, King David's once righteous warriors have become cowardly neocons. Just like their spineless PNAC cousins in America.

Case at point: Israel using helicopter gunships to kill innocent civilians in Palestine and doing the same thing in Lebanon last summer with IDF cluster bombs and U.S.-supplied 2,000-lb depleted uranium bunker busters. How can anyone defend those barbaric tactics? They can't, but Hillary Rodham Clinton apparently does.

Consider the following excerpts from CounterPunch.org article titled, “Hillary Clinton, AIPAC and Iran” by Joshua Frank (01/26/06).

…AIPAC's hypocrisy is stomach-turning, to say the least. The goliath lobbying organization wants Iran to be slapped across the knuckles while the crimes of Israel continue to be ignored. And who is propping up AIPAC's hypocritical position? Senator Hillary Clinton of New York.

As the top Democratic recipient of pro-Israel funds for the 2006 election cycle thus far, pocketing over $58,000 as of October 31 last year, Senator Clinton now has Iran in her cross-hairs.

During a Hanukkah dinner speech delivered on December 11, hosted by Yeshiva University, Clinton prattled, "I held a series of meetings with Israeli officials [last summer], including the prime minister and the foreign minister and the head of the [Israeli Defense Force] to discuss such challenges we confront."

"In each of these meetings, we talked at length about the dire threat posed by the potential of a nuclear-armed Iran, not only to Israel, but also to Europe and Russia. Just this week, the new president of Iran made further outrageous comments that attacked Israel's right to exist that are simply beyond the pale of international discourse and acceptability."

"During my meeting with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, I was reminded vividly of the threats that Israel faces every hour of every day ... It became even more clear how important it is for the United States to stand with Israel ..."

As Sen. Clinton embraces Israel's violence, as well as AIPAC's duplicitous Iran position, she simultaneously ignores the hostilities inflicted upon Palestine, as numerous Palestinians have been killed during the recent shelling of the Gaza Strip. Over the past weeks Israel continues to mark the occupied territories (they call 'buffer zones') like a frothing-mouth K9 on the loose.

Hillary Clinton's silence toward Israel's brutality implies the senator will continue to support AIPAC's mission to occupy the whole of the occupied territories, as well as a war on Iran in the future. AIPAC's right -- even President Bush appears to be a little sheepish when up against Hillary "warmonger" Clinton.

End of the CounterPunch extract.

If you believe that Slick Willie’s flyweight understudy should not become president of the United States, visit the nonpartisan website : www.STOP-Hillary.com.

Okay, you Clinton fans -- BRING IT ON!

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» RE: AIPAC and Hillary Clinton Posted by: freethink7
» RE: AIPAC and Hillary Clinton Posted by: psychochurch
right on
Posted by: judep on Jun 5, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like this short piece. The fact is that the current strategy isn't working. I live in Israel, and most of the people I know would totally agree with the author's thesis "we need to save us from ourselves." I am afraid that the media fails to emphasize this fact. Similar to what is going on in America, governments and people are not the same thing.

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» RE: right on Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: right on Posted by: gracefounddog
Why can't Zionism be questioned? Why is the history of Jews against Zionism never
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jun 5, 2007 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
taught anywhere? Why do people not know that for most of history Zionism was not the belief of the majority of Jews? Why do people not realise that the false-state of Isreal is not Biblical and not supported by the true Orthodox Jews themselves? Why aren't we taught about the relationship between a certain banker and the British Empire in relation to the promise of Israel (Balfour and Rothchild.) Why aren't we taught that, during the initial rise of Nazism and Hitler, certain prominent Jews supported Nazis because they thought it would encourage emigration to Palestine and, therefore, the new zion Israel? Why don't we learn about the terrorist tactics of the original 'founding fathers' of Isreal which killed Arabs, Brits, and even non-zionist Jews (Stern Gang, etc.)?

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When the Occupation Ends
Posted by: wawa on Jun 5, 2007 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ONLY when the occupation of Palestine ends can there be security and peace in the Holy Land.

The Good News:

Israeli, Palestinian and International Justice and Peace activists have risen up and are united in one voice:

Two States for Two People Equals One Peace.
http://www.june5thinitiative.org/


On June 10, 2007 in DC, thousands of committed, patriotic, thoughtful, justice and peace activists will be marching around the Capitol with one voice:

END THE OCCUPATION!
http://www.endtheoccupation.org/

If you can't be there, email and phone your Congressional Reps and Bush:

WHITE HOUSE COMMENTS LINE: 202-456-1111
WHITE HOUSE SWITCHBOARD: 202-456-1414
WHITE HOUSE FAX: 202-456-2461

SILENCE IS COMPLICITY!!!


"If you are not a part of the solution; you are a part of the problem."-Eldridge Cleaver




Only in Solidarity do "we have it in our power to begin the world again."-Tom Paine


e
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

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Steve F.
Posted by: Stev on Jun 5, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another example of onesided reporting!! No description the Palestinian precipitating the events that lead to why things got "so bad" in 2000- like the PLO approved uprising after the Clinton-Barak peace proposal was rejected. This, some should try to remember gave so much for peace, including a Palestine capitol on East Jerusalem that Barak was voted out of office once the violence began. It ought to be a requirement that people include ALL the facts before going off on yet another self-rightous tear about how bad Israel is!!

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» Exist as what exactly? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: xist as what exactly? Posted by: yellow
Just a few words;
Posted by: paschn on Jun 5, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
USS Liberty, Rachel Corey et al, (sic?), spying on us through the '50's &"60's, illegal occupation, nuclear, chemical, biological weps, terrorist acts, mass murder to rival some of the best, even the U.S. Power on a frightening scale for a tiny part, ( Zionism), of a tiny part, (Jewish), of the total world population i.e. insane laws in "free" nations that will imprison a human being for YEARS for simply SAYING the holocaust didn't happen as presented to the world.
Anti Semetic? No. Anti Israel? Yup. Just as I am becoming anti U.S. for the atrocities they have and are perpetrating with the mindless blessing of a drone-ish culture.

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"Golden Oldie"
Posted by: rabblerowzer on Jun 5, 2007 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somewhere along the way that “Golden Oldie,” An Eye for and Eye became Ten Eyes for an Eye, then One Hundred Eyes for an Eye . . . Now we’re talking “Even a million.”

I can understand how easily such thinking escalates in a country dominated by people who believe that ever increasing violence begets victory and peace, because I live in the same kind of country. America has fallen under the sway of that kind of thinking and I’m wondering who’s gonna call the shots, or Cease Fires in the future. If not Cease Fires, then at least give us and idea who’s gonna decide when and why to jump from a hundred thousand-to a million, or ten million, etc.

What I means is, I want to be personally consulted before we jump from ten million to one hundred million. When we’re talking one hundred million people getting killed, shouldn’t everyone have a say, and not one guy or group of guys who decide to go ahead and push the button and pull the plug in secret.

I don’t trust any guy or group of guys that much.

.

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Twist of fate
Posted by: ceti on Jun 5, 2007 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, Israel was more of a pariah before 1967 when most travelers from the Third World were barred from entering both Israel and South Africa, so strong was the non-aligned solidarity with Palestine.

In the last decade, the wholesale shift of Zionists towards synergy with right-wing pro-war governments, and their capture of top positions within the international Jewish community has seriously marginalized the Jewish left, an traditional fount of support for the international left. This is a sad irony, where even the socialist pretensions of the Zionist state have been submerged under the permanent war economy of a colonial settler state, more and more dependent on wealthy supporters from the US (thus the need to trumpet so-called "existential threats" to Israel, in order to raise funds to cover the state's own misadventures in the occupied territories). Worse, the default strategy of ethnic cleansing, collective punishment, concentration camp like conditions for Palestinian enclaves, etc. -- all in the service of "Lebensraum" for extreme-right US and ex-Soviet nominally Jewish emigres will be known one day as one of the 20th century's most terrible ironies.

Interestingly, one of the most eminent scholars of genocide, Raphael Lemkin pointed out this unstable relationship between victim and oppressor, and the "strange transformation of genocidal victim into genocidists." Would this be one of those cases?

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Israel, Iraq and AIPAC
Posted by: reinaldok on Jun 5, 2007 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe one of the great Alternet gurus (and there are many) could explain to me why there are so many anti-Bush, anti-the Iraq debacle, fed up reading every day about the USA troops absurdly sacrificed every day in a never ending quagmire who also back to the hilt the Aipac ridiculous pro Israel and its wmds, illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, etc etc etc. You just cannot have it both ways. Anti-neocons,
and their ilk, but pro the Israeli cabal and their unending Bush backed programs.

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» RE: Israel, Iraq and AIPAC Posted by: gracefounddog
2010 - The End
Posted by: lc on Jun 5, 2007 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"62 weeks" or years as in the Bible to the end of "thy City and thy Sanctuary." 1948 Israel founded. 62 years later in 2010 "thy city and thy sanctuary" are ended by "flood."
Book of Daniel and Revelation. You don't want to know what causes the "flood" because the cause is worse on US than on Israel.
IM
Belteshazzar

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The Myth of 1967
Posted by: fanny666 on Jun 5, 2007 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The standard line from the Israeli government is that "the Arabs" attacked in June of 1967. There are some important Israelis who disagree:

Menahem Begin: "In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."

"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68

Former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman stated that there was "no threat of destruction" but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could "exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies."

"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'" The New York Times, May 11, 1997

Jews For Justice

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» Not entirely a myth Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Not entirely a myth Posted by: yellow
political junkie shrink
Posted by: DrJo on Jun 5, 2007 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a psychologist, I can't help but think about what years of being fired on and threatened with annihilation will do to a people (the Israelis). They have responded less than perfectly to a perfectly awful situation. Why are they such a monomaniacal focus of people seeking to root out oppression when there are so many other tyrannical, violent states? Why are the Israelis held to a higher standard? I think it's sort of simple. When the Palestinians truly embrace peace, and, as Abbas has come to see, put down their guns against the Israelis, there will be a peaceful, two-state solution. Being threatened with death all the time, as the Israelis are, tends to polarize one's views.

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» RE: ICJ is not a jew Posted by: eretzisrael
» RE: ICJ IS in fact a pseudo-jew Posted by: eretzisrael
what "ALTERNET" really means
Posted by: rightisright on Jun 5, 2007 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Always Lame Tear-inducing Excrement Repulsive Nonsense that Everyone should Trash --------- on the day that we celebrate Israel's miraculous victory over it's murderous enemies, Alternet chooses to ..... dump on Israel! Not surprising, really: Alternet is consistently pathetic and on the cynical, nasty, wrong side of every issue. YUCK!

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» RE: what "ALTERNET" really means Posted by: rightisright
What Does Israel Want?
Posted by: freethink7 on Jun 5, 2007 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Total control of the Middle East along with all its valuable resources and assets. They also want control of the Dead Sea which is a treasure trove of valuable oil, gas, gold and other minerals. Ultimately, Israel plans to geopolitically reconfigure the entire Middle East and seize control of the world’s oil supplies.

Israel is currently in Iraq for hegemony of Iraq and to gain control of their assets-resources: oil/minerals/land. (Unbeknownst to many people in this country, Israel is in Iraq and involved in this war – this is due to our manipulating, deceitful, and lying mainstream press)

Israel also wants control of Lebanon’s resources/assets: especially water. They also seek hegemony over Iran along with control of Iran’s valuable Zargos oil belt. They want all of this without any global interference: they want what they want, and they want it now – and they want all of this with no Arab interference.

I support the right for Israel to exist but not to the extent and magnitude of being brutal abusers of power and committing horrible acts of genocide, terrorism, and stealing other people’s assets and property in the Middle East. Israel is engaging in criminal behavior. The current illegal occupation + apartheid of Palestine by Israel are an example of their quest for total control of the Middle East. Israel has stolen assets/resources – land, homes, water, food, et al away from innocent Palestinians. Israeli snipers frequently take shots at and kill innocent Palestinian citizens…..many of their victims are children. Genocide and ethnic cleansing of innocent Palestinians by Israel is occurring even as we post on this forum. Our deceitful-lying mainstream media/news spins this story in reverse: Israel is the victim

Meanwhile, our own government officials (President, Reps, and Presidential candidates) turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the criminal behavior, violence and terrorism that Israel is committing. Israel + AIPAC wield a tremendous amount of control over U.S. government…..but why, but for what? Our own government officials and government candidates are complicit in the crimes of Israel and everyone just accepts this fact.

Americans, along with the rest of the world, must speak out and be a voice for the innocent victims of Israel’s illegal occupations and genocide sprees, as these victims desperately need a voice. Silence in this extremely important issue is tantamount to complicity.

Please no “you’re anti Jewish, anti Semitic” comments because the truth is, I am not…nothing could be further from the truth. However, I am anti-criminal behavior regardless of nationality, ethnicity, race, religion, gender, et al…..this is an important distinction to make. As idealistic as it seems, my objective for posting this comment: I want to make the world a better place.

Sources/Links for more information:
FactsAboutIsrealAggressionMiddleEast

judicial-inc.biz
iamthewitness.com
ChrisBollyn

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Never in the history of mankind, so many did not suffer so much for so few to gain so little
Posted by: exhibit on Jun 5, 2007 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Basic injustice apart, never in the history of the mankind, so many across the world did not suffer so much for so few (fanatic settlers) to gain so little (land and water of the West Bank). Sure, there will be still plenty to deal with, but you cannot start making any progress without decisively addressing that glaring injustice.

In our own backyard, 9/11 is the price we paid for allowing Israeli interest to high-jack US foreign policy. Power of the Lobby shuts down any debate about the main (and stated by terrorists) cause of 9/11, which is occupation of the West Bank with US money and arms. 9/11 was in turn grabbed by the Lobby as an opportunity to destroy the most dangerous enemy of Israel - Saddam's Iraq, as advocated by the familiar characters for years before 9/11. Lies of the White House gang about the Iraq were always transparent. But the biggest, and so far whispered only factor in this Iraqi/terrorism mess is virtual control of American Legislature, foreign policy and mass media by the Israeli partisans.

It is not a coincidence that the most vicious Iraq (and now Iran) - bashers were Jewish: from Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Libby and Abrams to Adelman, Brooks, Krauthammer, Safire, Judith Miller and Kristol, to name just a few of the countless activists. This fifth column must be exposed to prevent further damage to our treasure and life. Manipulation of intelligence and public opinion that went into Iraqi enterprise is nothing short of treason of historical proportions. And the Lobby was a crucial factor in ramming the war through. There were other powerful interests involved - emporium-builders/oil securing corporate types, crusaders and political opportunists like brains of our shrub. For the mass media overwhelmingly owned and staffed by the Lobby a nice bonus was economic value of the reality show entitled The War. Anti-Semites see Jews as scapegoats for all ills. The reality is bewildering.

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Get over it, and 'move on'
Posted by: eretzisrael on Jun 5, 2007 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say this to all of the muslim-lovers on this site:
We had a war with the Arab/Muslim terrorists. We won. And that is that!
So stop cursing the jews like your forefathers 'cause you owe us for 2000 years of persecution, pogroms, and the holocaust.

Move on, and get over it.

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» RE: Get over it, and 'move on' Posted by: JusticeForAll
» Anti-semitism Posted by: icj
» RE: Anti-semitism Posted by: JusticeForAll
» RE: Anti-semitism Posted by: icj
» RE: Where would the extra Jews go? Posted by: eretzisrael
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!!!
Posted by: TKO on Jun 5, 2007 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immediately, pro-Israeli people start slinging anti-semite and Nazi at the author but the facts support everything in this article. When the Israeli rabbi's start encouraging carpet bombing of Gaza like this Rabbi and other idiots like NitWitYahoo that said one of the successes of the Israelis is the reduced birth rates of non-jewish Israeli citizens. I give up. I am not going to put text with it because the list is just too long. I, wholeheartedly agree, that the Kassam rockets must stop, but they won't stop because of the way the Israeli's treat the Palestinians. Maybe negotiations should be tried instead of threats and bombs as usual. First on the list is the JPost columnist that admitted Israelis don't give a crap about Palestinians.

Jpost op-ed admitting most Israelis are against easing any hardships the Palestinians are undergoing


"A top IDF judge disclosed on Tuesday that 2,700 Palestinians have been detained without trial this year, criticizing the military prosecution for not filing charges against some of them."



Israeli security forces killed 660 Palestinians in 2006 according to Israeli rights group (131 children, 322 that had no part in hostile acts)



JPost article trying to downplay the importance of Palestinian deaths



"The current internal Palestinian violence is good for Israel since it 'shows the Palestinians that terror is not in their interests, because it will be directed against them,' US Ambassador Richard Jones said"



Jpost spin job blaming the Palestinians for enticing the Israelis into acts of violence on the Palestinians so it can be videotaped



Israelis torturing Palestinian children


That is a just a fraction of the list I have. I got tired of cutting and pasting.

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Tolerance
Posted by: grn1 on Jun 5, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched a documentary called "Partisans of Vilna" it was about WW2 Jews held in a Lithuanian ghetto. The parallels of these Jews and Palestinians is exact, checkpoints, searches, confiscation of homes, imprisonment, murder, lack of resources, hopelessness. The Jews in this documentary who fought for their lives were heroes not terrorist. In the summation one of the Jewish commanders talks about how they envisioned the New World after the war. Six decades later the fear is omnipotent. The only thing to fear is fear itself and the continual cycle of self destruction it permeates.

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JUSTICE. RIGHTS. PEACE
Posted by: JusticeForAll on Jun 5, 2007 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should all move from finger pointing, and blaming and fighting and who gave a better proposal and is it Arafat's fault and etc.... to simply understanding the human cost of all of this.

Give Palestinians their land. End the occupation... it is about RIGHT... it is the RIGHT of the Palestinian people.

Only then will Israelis live in peace...

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Eat the Rich
Posted by: WitchyNy on Jun 5, 2007 10:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THEY are the enemy. They keep us poor people all fighting amongst ourselves...Black and White, Jew and Arab, divide and rule...as the rich get ever richer and richer --how they must be laughing -as they now destroy the environment as well.

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Israeli and the Breakup of the USSR
Posted by: mdwoade on Jun 5, 2007 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In around 1970, when I was in college, I became very interested in the Arab-Israeli situation. I came to the conclusion that when the Israeli people saw themselves as people of the Middle East rather than transplanted Europeans, that only then would there be peace. In other words, when Israelis viewed Palestinians as people like them, then they would sit down and talk, and figure things out, and there would be peace and cooperation. And, I still believe that.
I think that what happened to upset the situation was the disintegration of the Soviet Union and the influx of poor, unskilled Jews from Eastern Europe. First, these people needed places to live; there was land in the "occupied territories." Second, they needed jobs; they took the jobs that had been done by the Palestinians. Third, they did not share the secular Israeli values of the original settlers; they tended to be more religiously oriented, and they had no history of working with the Palestinians. The people of Israeli became scared by the Muslim uprising, and they realized that they no longer needed the cheap labor of the Arabs, but they did need their land. The Palestinians had lost their leverage when they were no longer vital as cheap labor, and they could apply pressure only by protests and violence. The Israei political situation veered to the right (or was pushed to the right by those who used fear to gain power), partly due to the leanings of the new immigrants and partly because of the fear of Israelis in gnereal, and now we have repression, torture, the wall, and all those small daily tragedies that make Palestine such a horror.
Once you view your neighbors as different or not-quite-human you are going to have this situation. It does not really matter whether it is Hindu-Muslim, Protestant-Catholic, Black-White, Nazi-Jew, Anglo-Hispanic, Israeli-Paletinian; once you deny a group of people their inherent humanity, you will treat them badly.

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The answer is always simple, but unbelievably difficult to implement
Posted by: xbj on Jun 5, 2007 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There will never be true peace in the Mideast until the State of Israel is dismantled and bought out at full market value and those Israeli citizens that do not desire to live under Palestinian rule emigrate elsewhere with all expenses paid.

To the countries they should have been allowed to come in the first place if not for rampant worldwide (ESPECIALLY THE US) anti-Jewish prejudice at the time, and the need for American oil companies to have a secure satellite ally presence firmly in the oil-rich Mideast.

To do so is quite expensive, but war and nuclear Armageddon will be ultimately MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE. Both in national fortune lost to the elite and in the human toll.

The ONLY thing stopping the entire world from coming to this obvious (and coincidentally, quite Jesus Christian) solution is the elite who make their family fortunes off death, killing, and the industry of war. The industry of war is the surest way to steal money from any nation's taxpayers with no oversight whatsoever as long as elected officials are on the take and part of the problem by being eternal passengers on the gravy train.

Religious claims are no valid excuse for fascist imperialsm, and will never be. And fascist imperialism upon an indigenous people (for the prior 2000 years) is no way to make reparations to the victims of genocide. Allowing them to become the worm that turned by unconditional miltary and financial and political support does no one a service, least of all the people of Israel themselves.

And anyone that thinks the nuclear genie can be put back in the bottle by "limited" nuclear attacks on states that are on the verge of becoming nuclear powers is simply quite out of their mind. There is no surer way to destroy the planet then to start nuking countries; the non-symmetrical terrorist warfare that would erupt would envelop and destroy the entire planet.

And to be perfectly honest, those fighting such non-symmetrical warfare have quite valid and just grievances against the governmental policies of their oppressors. Yes their methods are reprehensible, but so also have been our policies, and those methods are the only way left to our victims to fight, and eventually, they will either win or bring down the entire world in a violent attempt to stop them.

Until we lay down our weapons and start dealing with those grievances as if our opponents were every bit as human and rational as ourselves (for they absolutely are, for they are reacting not a hair differently than we would be in the desperation of their shoes), there is no hope whatsoever for the human race.

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» clarification Posted by: lotus23
Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the geopolitical control of Mideast Oil
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 5, 2007 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In every conflict, in every issue that falls before the American people there is always the public relations line, and then there is are the facts behind the scene. Most of the comments here have addressed the public relations lines spun out by both 'the left' and by 'the right', so let's talk about money and power instead.

Obscure fact #1: Israel has a massive nuclear weapons program that has produced hundred of nuclear weapons and that was almost certainly set up by the United States.

Obscure fact #2: The Saudi Arabia lobby has at least as much power over US foreign policy as the Israeli lobby does, but for some reason 'the left' often appears as reluctant to address this issue as does 'the right'.

Obscure fact #3: Israel was set up by the post WWII British-American axis for one reason: to make sure that a military base for military control of Mideast oil supplies would always be present in the region. Left-right doesn't matter; both Nixon and Carter supported the notion of US military control of foreign oil resources. (That's why the nukes are there!)

Obscure fact#4: Thomas Jefferson always warned against 'entangling relationships with foreign powers' - Israel and Saudi Arabia being great examples of why they did so. Neither state has any future in its current form - one is a South African-style apartheid state, one is a corrupt dictatorial monarchy that only exists because of US intervention and support.

Obscure fact #5: The Israeli and Saudi propaganda systems are very comprehensive, but mostly target their own people. The Saudis can use the Israelis to distract their own population form the brutal dictatorship that they suffer under, and the Israelis can point to the Saudis and Iran while invoking the Nazi Holocaust as justification for persecution of the Palestinians... but the Israeli elite and the Saudi elite are both clients of the British-American power axis... it's old autocratic European dealmaking at it's finest.

Of course, you can take this all from a far more authoritative source - see John Perkins on Democracy Now today on the Middle East:

JOHN PERKINS: I think it’s very sad and very telling, once again, that the Israeli people, for the most part, are led to believe that they’ve been given this land as a payoff, basically, for the Holocaust, because they deserve to be recompensed...

But why would we locate that place in the middle of the Arab world, their traditional enemies? Why would we locate that place in such an unstable area? It’s because it is serving as a huge fortress for us in the biggest oil fields known in the world today, and we knew this when Israel was located there. And I think the Israeli people have been terribly exploited in this process.

So, in fact, we built this vast military base, armed camp, in the middle of the Middle Eastern oil fields that are surrounded by the Arab communities, and in the process, we’ve obviously created a tremendous amount of resentment and anger and a situation that it’s very difficult to see any positive outcome there. But the fact of the matter is, our having this military base in Israel has been a huge defense for us... It’s been our equivalent of the Crusaders’ castles in the Middle East....


There is one simple question that reveals everything: Why won't Israel publicly acknowledge that it has a large nuclear weapons arsenal?

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» Want to know the answer? Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Correct, Yellow Posted by: Philip Newton
» And the "loans"? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: And the "loans"? Posted by: yellow
» Repaid or rewritten? (nm) Posted by: justaguy
US support prolongs the palestinian misery
Posted by: persian on Jun 5, 2007 11:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The unconditional political, military and financial support given to Israel by US, gives Israel a sense of invincibility with no incentive or desire to compromise. The US automatic vetos in UN on behalf of Israel made UN in the eyes of many around the world specially muslims illegitimate and irrelevant.
Israel refusal to sign NPT or to allow inspection of its nuclear facilities by IAEA and the America's blatant double standard on prolifiration of WMD is the reason for Iran's cavalier attitute toward UN. All US gets from this AIPAC sponsored friendship is the enemity of 1.3 billion muslims and loss of much needed tax revenues. Israel has to be made to understand that the historical suffering of jewish people is not a license for oppression and racist policies toward desparate palestinians.

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Chris should stick to American Fascists or listen more
Posted by: DaBear on Jun 5, 2007 12:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Towards the end of the piece Hedges descended into the tired unproductive rhetoric of the growing and increasingly vocal anti-semitic left. Read Uri Avnery debating Ilan Pappe. Chris should talk to both of those guys then re-write his piece.

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» Yep. Posted by: Philip Newton
How is it illegal again?
Posted by: slibbidy on Jun 5, 2007 3:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This so called "occupation" is not illegal under international law. The Arab states lost land during one of several wars initiated by them!! To the victor go the spoils.

Jordan and Syria could have accepted their own refugees back into their county, but chose instead to leave the "Palestinians" as refugees to continue to have a pretext for attacking Israel whenever they felt they had the military might to. As luck would have it, things have not worked out as they had planned and the worldwide Islamic caliphate is not progressing as they'd hoped.

I find it funny that all of us "progressives" stand up for women's rights, gay rights, freedom of (and from) religion, but we never call Islam out on it's totalitarian ideology. No, it's always easier to blame the Jews...just ask Hamas and Ahmadinejad.

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» RE: Oh no Posted by: eretzisrael
» From an Arab-American Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: From an Arab-American Posted by: yellow
» Occupation Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Occupation Posted by: yellow
» RE: Occupation Posted by: icj
» RE: Occupation Posted by: Philip Newton
» Those who control... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Those who control... Posted by: Philip Newton
May 14, 1948
Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 5, 2007 4:53 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Countless wars all date back to this particular date. Illegal settlements, apartheid, murder and torture under state auspices, all date back to this particular date. America's wars in the Middle East and 911 all have ties to this particular date. The price we all pay for gasoline has ties to this particular date. What is the date:

May 14, 1948

The date the USA recognized Israel, under President Truman. America has been paying ever since.

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» RE: May 14, 1948 Posted by: xbj
Food for Thought
Posted by: icamn on Jun 5, 2007 7:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not a fan of what Israelis have done to Palestinians through the years, but Palestinians themselves have reverted to violence in order to solve problems, and violence begets violence. But the situation in these past decades cannot be pushed aside in the name of "national security" . Jews should not forget the Nazis' concern for national security and identity, which led to the holocaust.

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Justice will prevail
Posted by: humanity101 on Jun 5, 2007 8:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless the inhumane Israelis murder all the Palestinians, they will never be able to steal their land. In the end, the Israelis will be so hated for the ugliness of the occupation that even their god won't be able to save them. As long as the Palestinians stick together, they will win. It's amazing to see Jews being gassed and burned in the Holocaust and see how now with America's blessing, they shoot and bomb another people different than themselves. They will eventually spend all their "Holocaust capital" and become the evil ones.

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RE: Israel is doomed
Posted by: xbj on Jun 6, 2007 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks so much for further explaining what McLaughlin on PBS meant when he said the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem will be taken care of by demographics.

The fact that people are leaving Israel in droves is very good news as well, thanks.

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RE: Israel is doomed
Posted by: icj on Jun 6, 2007 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C - I have to take issue with the anti-semitic tone of your post. All of these things about emigration and such are true, but you recycle a lot of old myths about Jews that are some of the foundations of classic anti-semitism. I'll criticize Israel and it's policies towards the Palestinians and the rest of its neighbors and agree that Israel is securing its own destruction through these policies (I've even defended some of your statements on the topic), but I must point out the blatant anti-semitism of your statements.

The two that particularly stand out are:

"Jews are for the most part incapable of building their own self-sustaining societies and always live on the backs of other peoples"

and

"Seems there aren't enough Jews to fill all the jobs in that society..since they all want to be doctors, lawyers, bankers, or journalists there is no one left to perform the necessary functions of a healthy society"

First off, in Eastern Europe throughout the ages, Jews weren't allowed to take part in the Christian societies in which they lived and so actually formed very self-sustaining societies within larger society. Among Middle Eastern and North African Jews, historically they were very well integrated into society, made great literary, intellectual and artistic and had no need to form their own societies. Israel was a specific response to the Holocaust, and although I understand that the peoples of the Middle East did not take part in the Holocaust and such should not have borne the brunt of the West's penance, you must at least attempt to understand the mindset of post-Holocaust Judaism that precipitated the formation of the State of Israel. I have stated my views in great detail on the sense of Jewish victimhood that encourages a continuation of the Occupation today, but I have never said that this mindset wasn't well-earned.

Secondly, the idea that Jews only want to be bankers, doctors, lawyers, etc, is just ridiculous. The idea that Jews just want money is one of the foundations of classic anti-semitism.

My basic point here is that you do yourself and your arguments a great disservice when you fall into knee-jerk anti-semitism to make your point.

Just an observation...

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» RE: I told you so :) Posted by: eretzisrael
» RE: I told you so :) Posted by: icj
» RE: I told you so :) Posted by: eretzisrael
» RE: I told you so :) Posted by: icj
» RE: Israel is doomed Posted by: Philip Newton
One-sided opinions are not helpful
Posted by: Philip Newton on Jun 7, 2007 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is both racist and anti-semitic to condemn Israeli security measures -- problematic as they can be -- and exonerate the outright murders perpetrated by the Palestinan leadership with the support of the Palestinan people.

If the West does not demand accountability from both Palestinians and Israelis, there will not be a settlement. Condemning Israeli measures while giving the Palestinians a pass is a recipe for more murders, more repression and less democracy.

Hedges ignores the fact that Israeli security measures -- like them or loathe them -- have come in response to overwhelmingly violent acts by the Palestinian leadership agains Arab and Jew alike.

Such one-sided reporting helps no one.

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I Would Like To Commend Alternet for Finally Having Standards
Posted by: yellow on Jun 7, 2007 12:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and eliminating one of the most obnoxious bigots ever on this blogsite. He is named Charopos. He is one moron we really don't need. The other white supremicist anti-semites always managed to express their hatred in more reasonable, sophisticated and civilized ways.

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» RE: The same logical fallacy again. Posted by: Philip Newton
» Without Cheney? Posted by: justaguy
col. jackleg
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jun 8, 2007 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can there be dignity and justice in a mideast dominated by Britain, U.S. and Zionism? Pose that question to: Al-Aqsa; Hamas; Palestine Islamic Jihad; PLO; Palestine Liberation Front; al Quaeda; Hizballah and too many others. The designated trifecta say yes, the remainder say no emphatically and speak their frustration and outrage with bombs. "This land is your land, this land is my land....this land belongs to you and me..." unless you are Arab or Islamic. Zionism is but another "ism" and none serve mankind or Yeshua. Israel has no greater entitlement to peace and security than any other nation on earth. Slaughtering innocents in the name of Zionism hardly advances its cause(?) and it now appears that many Israelis are tired of endless war and seek solutions that will produce regional and global order. Carter understood it, but his successors don't and succumb to the influence of American jews whose designs are entirely different and perverse. Think not? Follow the money and influence trail as Hillary seeks election in 2008 and see where Israel fits in her mideast foreign policy projections. Selah!

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