Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

A President Gone AWOL

By John Nichols, TheNation.com. Posted May 3, 2007.


In a sad attempt to justify his veto, the president says he is listening to military commanders while Congress plays politics. Here's what top military men who commanded troops in Iraq say.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

George Bush, the most ideologically-driven and politically calculating president in American history, wants Americans to believe that he has suddenly discovered a moral high ground from which to make grand declarations about why he must maintain the occupation of Iraq.

After vetoing legislation Tuesday that gave him the money to continue his war but required that he accept loose limits of its ultimate duration, the president told the nation, "I recognize that many Democrats saw this bill as an opportunity to make a political statement about their opposition to the war. They sent their message, and now it is time to put politics behind us and support our troops with the funds they need."

Bush has made his position clear: Democrats, many of whom rightly argued four years ago that going to war in Iraq would be the huge mistake it has turned out to be, and who have since been far ahead of the White House in identifying the nature of the crisis that has since developed, are now to be dismissed as the players of political games when they advocate for a strategy that would begin bringing US troops home from the conflict on a schedule beginning October 1.

That's a remarkable line of analysis from a president whose inability to recognize the flaws in his own neo-conservative vision has rendered his wrong at every turn, and whose determination to play politics with life-and-death decisions has defined not just his approach to the Iraq war but his tenure as president.

Yet Bush is not giving up on his faith that he can frame the argument about Iraq as a fight between Congressional Democrats who are out to score political points and a presidential administration that is motivated merely by a desire to respond appropriately to practical realities on the ground in Iraq.

"Twelve weeks ago, I asked the Congress to pass an emergency war spending bill that would provide our brave men and women in uniform with the funds and flexibility they need," said Bush in framing his veto message. "Instead, members of the House and the Senate passed a bill that substitutes the opinions of politicians for the judgment of our military commanders."

The problem with Bush's "I'm-so-above-politics" line is that he has been disregarding advice from military commanders since before the war began.

Consider the response to his veto from top military men who commanded troops in Iraq.

"The President vetoed our troops and the American people," says retired Maj. Gen. John Batiste. "His stubborn commitment to a failed strategy in Iraq is incomprehensible. He committed our great military to a failed strategy in violation of basic principles of war. His failure to mobilize the nation to defeat world wide Islamic extremism is tragic. We deserve more from our commander-in-chief and his administration."

Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton: "This administration and the previously Republican-controlled legislature have been the most caustic agents against America's Armed Forces in memory. Less than a year ago, the Republicans imposed great hardship on the Army and Marine Corps by their failure to pass a necessary funding language. This time, the President of the United States is holding our Soldiers hostage to his ego. More than ever [it is] apparent [that] only the Army and the Marine Corps are at war -- alone, without their President's support."

Retired military commanders associated with the Washington-based National Security Network have been blunt about their sense that Bush is not just wrong about Iraq but that he is failing the troops he purports to support.

Some make historical comparisons.

Says retired Lt. Gen. Robert Gard: "With this veto, the president has doomed us to repeating a terrible history. President Bush's current position is hauntingly reminiscent of March 1968 in Vietnam. At that time, both the Secretary of Defense and the President had recognized that the war could not be won militarily -- just as our military commanders in Iraq have acknowledged. But not wanting to be tainted with losing a war, President Johnson authorized a surge of 25,000 troops. At that point, there had been 24,000 U.S. troops killed in action. Five years later, when the withdrawal of US troops was complete, we had suffered 34,000 additional combat deaths.

Others offer a straightforward assessment of Bush's failure as the commander-in-chief. "By vetoing this bill and failing to initiate an immediate and phased withdrawal, the President has effectively gone AWOL, deserting his duty post, leaving American forces with an impossible mission, suffering wholly unnecessary casualties," argues retired Lt. Gen. William E. Odom.

Add the public statements of the retired generals together with the behind-the-scenes expressions of frustration from current commanders and they form the most powerful tool that Congressional Democrats have in what will ultimately be a negotiation not with Bush but with the American people -- a negotiation that, the president well understands, is about the question of which side is playing politics and which side is listening to military commanders and supporting the troops.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid should take the message of these retired generals -- along with the anti-war statements of thousands of current and returned Iraq soldiers -- into the fight with Bush. And, to borrow a slightly impolitic phrase from Senate Foreign Relations Committee chair Joe Biden, they should "shove it down his throat."

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: war, bush, iraq, military, veto

John Nichols is The Nation's Washington correspondent.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from World! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Send it back!
Posted by: Tom Degan on May 3, 2007 1:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The half-witted little frat boy. Did you see that speech from the White House the other night? With the Jefferson Memorial in the back round!!!! Can you even imagine what Thomas Jefferson would have thought of this disgusting little piece of shit??? Can you - in your wildest, wierdest dreams - even imagine???`

The number of dead in Iraq are are going up. It will skyrocket even further as the months go by. By summer's end, the publice will be demanding an end to this obscenity. The Bush administration will very soon be out of view - History - A thing of the past. By summer's end, the First Fool will be out of office and on his way to federal prison for the rest of his fucking life for his crimes against humanity. Dick Cheney (1941-2007) will drop dead any day now. But of this you may be absolutely certain: you and I will be living with George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney for the rest of our natural lives. The damage that these two evil bastards have done to our once-great nation will be palpable a century and a half from now.

You can take that to the bank.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY.
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Send it back! Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Send it back! sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» But . . . Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Send it back! Posted by: Roberta_RansleyMatteau
» RE: Send it back! Posted by: thinkverybig
» RE: Send it back! Posted by: braxxian
» RE: Send it back! Posted by: ALANHESTER
Why don't the dems at least THREATEN impeachment
Posted by: grim ripper on May 3, 2007 3:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...as a little leverage to get their withdrawl bill passed? I mean if they don't have the decency to ACTUALLY impeach and bring charges...
It all feels like a dog and pony show
I can't believe these thugs aren't physically removed from office, if not by democrats, then by regular folk--if not by regular folk, then by our resurrected forefathers, reanimated by the rage of injustice
I'm about ready to lay down in the street

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» dog and pony show indeed Posted by: thistleblower
» Yes Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Yes Posted by: aussidawg
» Truth vs Lies Posted by: mizipi
There is a history lesson here.
Posted by: kbest on May 3, 2007 4:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Abraham Lincoln, considered on of our best presidents ever, changed commanders 5 times before he settled on one (U.S. Grant) whom he thought would be the one to win. President Bush has done the same with General David Petraeus. Since Democrat senators voted unanimously for Petraeus, if they don't unite with Republicans, then they should get out of the way. For it this point whether you agree with the decision to invade Iraq or not, we have to stablize for the political process to work. Trouble is al-Qaida is in the way.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» some history lesson. Posted by: zipper696
» RE: some history lesson. Posted by: ellie
» RE: We will know in September Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: kbest question here... Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: kbest question here... Posted by: leafsong1
Not the First Time
Posted by: Democritus on May 3, 2007 5:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is not surprising to see that President Bush has, in John Nichols' estimate, "gone AWOL." That means "absent without leave." He did the same thing during his Texas Air National Guard duty during the Viet Nam war. Not content with his father's getting him a plum of an assignment so that he wouldn't have to actually fight in Viet Nam, he refused to fly the F102s that our government paid thousands of dollars for him to learn to fly. Instead he refused to take his flight physical after fewer than two years of flying, and then just went absent without leave, not completing his six years of required service. You can read all about it in Hugh Scott's book, George Dub-ya Bush: The Phony Fighter Pilot. Just as he failed his responsibilities then by refusing to listen to his military commanders, he's failing his responsibilities now in the same way. There is a pattern to George W. Bush's life. He remains a stubborn, pampered little bully who wants to get his way regardless of the consequences. The sad fact is that those consequences include people being killed every day in Iraq.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Ulcers? Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Ateo--A Response Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Ateo--A Response Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Not the First Time Posted by: ALANHESTER
definitions
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on May 3, 2007 5:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a politician in Washington who doesn't think that politicians in Washington should be making decisions about military matters. Oh, wait, he is the top soldier, the commander-in-chief, a war president, and the Decider. All that military brilliance and experience slipped my mind for an instant.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» And don't forget "Commander guy"!!! Posted by: russianblue1
Really?
Posted by: secretchief on May 3, 2007 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Democrats, many of whom rightly argued four years ago that going to war in Iraq would be the huge mistake it has turned out to be, and who have since been far ahead of the White House in identifying the nature of the crisis that has since developed"

Apart from Kucinich, I don't know who the author is referring to. Far ahead of the white house?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Dick Durbin Posted by: antiapathy
» Dennis Kucinich. YES! Posted by: saywhat
Talk about an AlterNet subject I can sink my teeth into!
Posted by: HughScott on May 3, 2007 6:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I won't. Yesterday's threads left me exhausted. Never have I read so much garbage spewed on AlterNet -- insults, profanity, gross generalizations, misinformation, bigotry... It was mind-boggling.

Meanwhile, for NEW AlterNet visitors who want to learn why our AWOL commander-in-chief should be in Leavenworth, not Washington, visit my NON-PROFIT website, King-George.biz -- the only one with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

Also for NEW visitors, here’s a laundry list of Oval Office transgressions, deceptions and outright lies you will find on my NON-PROFIT website:

So-called Iraqi WMDs.
"Immediate" threats.
Yellow-cake uranium.
Aluminum tubes.
Mobile biological weapons labs.
Ties to Al Qaeda.
A 9/11 connection.
The Valerie Plame/CIA leak case.
Secret overseas prisons.
Torture.
Warrantless wiretaps of United States citizens.
Phony Al Qaeda plots.
False claims that America is safer now from terrorism than before 9/11.
Concealing the real cost of Gulf War 2.
Understating Iraqi civilian casualties.
Embellishing U.S. successes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Misrepresenting the only wartime tax cut in American history.
Economically betraying senior citizens, the middle class and working poor.
Downplaying global warming.
Bush going on vacation during Hurricane Katrina while fellow Americans drowned in New Orleans.
Claiming wounded GIs got the best treatment possible at Walter Reed.
Preventing the coffins of returning GIs from being seen by the public.
Hiding injured Iraq veterans from the press after landing stateside.
Declassifying intelligence information for political purposes.
Firing U.S. attorneys for the same reason.

Add to my list the falsified presidential biography I found on a State Department website in 2004 and reported to the Boston Globe. You will learn all about it on my NON-PROFIT website, King-George.biz.

Again for NEW AlterNet visitors, I’m a Mayflower descendant, Vietnam veteran, lifelong registered Republican, Goldwater conservative and ardent John Kerry supporter in 2004 with a family history of honorable military service going back to 1776.

Cheers and God Bless America, Hugh E. Scott

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Cato the Elder Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Cato the Elder Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: Cato the Elder Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Cato the Elder Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Cato the Elder Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Cato the Elder Posted by: UncleVlad
» RE: All DEMOCRAT TALKING POINTS Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Kboy's joke of the day Posted by: Knowmad
» Pax Vobiscum Hugh Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Bush did the right thing!
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on May 3, 2007 6:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush is dumb, but my man Cheney did the right thing by getting this dumb-ass Bush to veto the bill.

We own Iraq, and all its resources because these barbarian moslems killed 3000 americans on 9/11 (liberals have selective memory).
The silent majority of Americans are with Bush on this. We want to spend billions on weapons, we don't care about Iraqi deaths as a result of our war. Americans just wanna win. Gen. Petreaus will do the job. And if he can't, then no big deal. We have destroyed at least 2 moslem countries!

As Cheney said once, "Dems go F* yourselves."
ps: As long as you liberals are zipping around in your SUVs, and consuming more energy than the rest of the world, give money to the government to kill moslems, you have no moral highground to criticize republicans.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Bush did the right thing! Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Bush did the right thing! Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Um . . . Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: You ask the question Posted by: daro
» RE: You ask the question Posted by: ALANHESTER
» selective memory? Posted by: Bbear41
» RE: Bush did the right thing! Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Measured responses Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Measured responses Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: I don't have data on Iraq Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Bush did the right thing!wtf Posted by: sasquuatch55
bush 43?
Posted by: apophenia_monkey on May 3, 2007 6:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
awol *now*? that frat boy never showed up so as to be classified awol.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

One more thing about King-George.biz
Posted by: HughScott on May 3, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My NON-PROFIT website promotes Operation-Helmet.org -- a charitable organization in San Antonio, Texas, that provides FREE helmet liner upgrade kits to our soldiers and Marines in the Middle East.

For AlterNet visitors unaware of the helmet problems GIs are having, here is the background information I posted on King-George.biz.

-----------------------------------------

Despite rising sectarian violence in Afghanistan and Iraq that began after the 2003 invasion, many U.S. troops stationed there are not adequately protected from brain damage caused by RPGs and roadside bombs.

The head trauma, which is often permanent, can be reduced with new high-tech helmet liner pads produced by Oregon Aero Inc.

However, some GIs in combat haven't received the life-saving cushions they requested. Other troops don't even know the improved pad system exists, despite publicity generated by the famous singer rock star, Cher.

Operation Helmet, an Internet charity organization, fills the need with FREE Oregon Aero upgrade kits. Qualified military personnel can order the no-cost liner pads online at Operation Helmet.

As of 05-01-07, Operation Helmet had a waiting list of 57 names. Disgracefully for the world's richest nation, with special shame on President Bush and the Pentagon for doing nothing to end the shortage, it was due to inadequate contributions, not manufacturing problems.

NOTE: The U.S. Army has been supplying its combat units with less expensive liner pads made by a skateboard helmet company.

According to emails received by Operation-Helmet.org, the government-issued pads are hot, hard and uncomfortable. Some GIs are removing the pads and pounding them with a hammer to make the material softer and more wearable, which reduces protection against explosions.

Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan deserve the BEST equipment available, not the cheapest.

----------------------------------------

Have a good day, Hugh E. Scott

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sure Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
To Ydotheyhateus
Posted by: HughScott on May 3, 2007 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of spewing hate speech on AlterNet, put money where your mouth is and donate to Operation-Helmet.org -- assuming, of course, you care more about our troops in the Middle East than Dick Cheney.

Have a good day, Hugh E. Scott

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: To Ydotheyhateus Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Can we be honest here? Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Can we be honest here? Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Can we be honest here? Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» You gotta be kidding Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Problems with liberals is that... Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» What a relief! Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Can we be honest here? Posted by: ALANHESTER
» Troop Support for GOP Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Troop Support for GOP Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Can we be honest here? Posted by: wieczerza19
» RE: We face an existential threat Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: We face an existential threat Posted by: Echo3Hotel-0351
» RE: We face an existential threat Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Can we be honest here? Posted by: ALANHESTER
After-the-Fact Generals
Posted by: Kevin R. Hoskins on May 3, 2007 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please notice that every one of the generals in this article are retired. TOO LATE !!! Why didn't these guys speak up four years ago when their opinions would have made a difference? All those bastards are trying to do now is soothe their cowardly consciences. And mark my words, the Iraq war is going to last many more years, regardless of whether the Democrats win the White House in 2008 or not, because none of our so-called leaders wants to be associated with losing the war. That is the main reason why that piece of shit sitting currently occupying the oval office vetoed that Iraq war bill on Tuesday. Our government doesn't give a shit about the active duty military or the veterans either. They haven't cared for over 200 years and aren't about to start now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: After-the-Fact Generals Posted by: liberalibrarian
» RE: After-the-Fact Generals Posted by: Kevin R. Hoskins
AWOL?
Posted by: LANCE on May 3, 2007 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AWOL? NO, BUSH IS A DESERTER.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: AWOL? Posted by: frank67
» RE: not a "deserter" Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: a "suspected" deserter Posted by: Ripcord
Liars should not have the privilege of a veto.
Posted by: MountainMike on May 3, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A shrewd reminder that Bush and Cheney have absolutely no one in their own extended families on active duty in Iraq, both were Nam draft dodgers themselves, and both were the originators of the lies that got us involved in this quagmire. When they say "stay the sacrifice" it is obvious they are not sacrificing anything at all while Cheney is profitting from the deferred stock options in Halliburton (which he has lied about).

My guess is that our military will be over extended in Iraq until January 20, 2009 - Bush's last day in office. He will dump this quagmire in the next president's lap. If we do our jobs and elect an anti war president, the first thing he needs to do is not even play the "losing" game. How do you "win" a war that was created by neo con lies for the purpose of extending the American Empire? We are in Iraq for the oil and for permanent military bases to secure our access to oil over the next couple of decades of intensifying competition. That has never been a "higher cause" to justify the deaths and injury of so many of our troops and of Iraqi civilians.

What we need to do now is in no uncertain terms dump Bush's veto back in his face. Liars don't get the privilege of not liking timelines. And the very best way we can support our troops is to not over extend the military to the point of being broken, as it was after the Vietnam War.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You nailed it, MountainMike. Posted by: HughScott
» See... Posted by: ateo
» RE: See... Posted by: wolfdaughter
Red Brown and Blue Party comment
Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on May 3, 2007 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing that jumped out at me from the above discussion was the high price of ignoring 911 truth. A blogger uses 911 to justify hatred for barbarians, when the truth is that the U.S. barbarians in suits and ties planned and executed 911 to fuel hatred for brown skinned people. Liberals likewise ignore 911 truth and thereby feed the fire of ignorance and hatred. The only way out of this insane blaming game is truth and justice. 911 is the lynchpin that needs to be pulled to collapse the house of lies.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Reverse racism Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: everse racism Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: everse racism Posted by: sasquuatch55
Just as in the run up to the war...
Posted by: Pirate1 on May 3, 2007 10:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's listening only to the voices that affirm what he and his posse thinks should happen... if there is one lone deluded idiot out there in the military saying we need to stay the course, Bush will listen to him as justification and ignore a chorus of information to the contrary. Why do people act like this is anything new? Just like all these politicians now saying they were misled? If lowly me was able to find pages and pages of information on line and elsewhere that the intelligence about Iraq was bogus, I can't accept that every Senator and Rep somehow didn't have someone on their teams that would have brought this to their attention. A pox on all of them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hey, YDOTHEYHATEUS
Posted by: russianblue1 on May 3, 2007 11:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I JUDGE you to be a bigoted, selfish, moronic sh*thead!

And I've got EVERY right to make that judgment 'cause I'm an American (right?)!!!!

Besides, after reading your ignorant posts (BTW, it's muslim, not moslem, you idiot), my judgment call is a wise, discretionary one. Here's to hoping our lives NEVER cross, in this life or for ETERNITY!

P.S. You went to college where? Regent University? Bum F*#k Egypt Technical College? Wherever you went, someone needs to DEMAND their money back, 'cause you definitely got short-changed in the education department! Grow a heart first, though.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hey, YDOTHEYHATEUS Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» Shit Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Hey, YDOTHEYHATEUS Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Hey, YDOTHEYHATEUS Posted by: elfinito
» RE: Hey, YDOTHEYHATEUS Posted by: blitzmesser
Just a Thought
Posted by: BudMan on May 3, 2007 3:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't get me wrong, I have been against this war since it was illegally initiated, and would like nothing more than to see every American taken out of harm's way as soon as possible. But, amidst all the devious posturing and the genuine lament, it seems we have lost sight of the ones most affected by this travesty of a war: regular Iraqis. If the US pulls out, do you realy think that all the sects will start getting along. Of course not, it will get worse (if you can imagine that). We may not like having our troops there, but it is our responsibility to protect those who we put in direct peril (at least the troops made the decision to sign up). If the troops are withdrawn, the killing will continue, but it will be targetted even more at those who simply had the ill fortune of being born in a certain area instead of at those whose ignorance made them think they could and should impose their views on the rest of the world.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ydotheyhateus is irrelevant
Posted by: wieczerza19 on May 3, 2007 3:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ydotheyhateus-

Can you answer me just one little question?

What is Orientalism?

If you're incapable of providing an answer to that, you are simply unfit to give your opinion of Islam. Keep it to yourself, bcause the world doesn't need more misinformed and uneducated ideas floating around (by the way, some type of schooling and a salary doesn't qualify you to make judgements on something you plainly have no knowledge about). If you had any idea as to the socio-political history of the Middle East, you wouldn't have to ask the question posited by your screen name. You claim to have read Plato, but that can't be true, because Socrates shows us time and again that we can't debate something if we don't have any knowledge (or at least true beliefs) about it.

Now go do some Googling and get back to me.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Ydotheyhateus is irrelevant Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Ydotheyhateus is irrelevant Posted by: wieczerza19
» RE: Liberals don't know anything! Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Liberals don't know anything! Posted by: wieczerza19
» RE: Liberals don't know anything! Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Ydotheyhateus is irrelevant Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: I acknowledge the truth Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE:you acknowledge your own truth Posted by: sasquuatch55
» By the way Posted by: wieczerza19
» RE: By the way Posted by: ALANHESTER
My new American Dream
Posted by: veive on May 3, 2007 6:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My dream has Bush and Cheney appropriately garbed in matching tutus, while they do a soft shoe dance and sing the tune their policies have written. It goes something like this;

"We're a pair of assholes who dance real swell.
We're heading off to prison before we go to hell.
We hope old Lucifer will let us in
Cuz what we did to America may be too big a sin."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: My new American Dream Posted by: ALANHESTER
He's pushing it off onto whoever's president next
Posted by: jmmva on May 3, 2007 8:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so outraged that he has the gaul to say that the democrats are putting politics above what military officials need. It's appalling to hear him act like he can use every trick in the book to override the voice of the majority of Americans. What an ass. I'm so so so so sick of that man, and I mean we all knew that he'd be a crazy man on the rampage for oil, the second he stole the election in 2000. He'll do whatever he can to maneuver HIS way. He's supposed to be working FOR us. Why don't the Democrats call HIM in for questioning? He should be the one on trial, along with Gonzales, Rumsfield, the whole lot of 'em. It repulses me! What can we do? It's so frustrating to see him, ...he actually thinks he's doing what's right for the country by bypassing our congressmen/women. What a complete raving lunatic. What a loose canon. Watch out America. Watch out Iraq, nothing's going to change for the better, ...at least not while he's still in office. he's just waiting to put it all off onto the next president, so that whoever's next will have to deal with his garbage. He came into the presidency with a surplus, with a budget. And now we're in the hole, we've lost thousands of men and women and innocent civilians, and we've widened the gap between rich and poor, and kept as many people as possible as ignorant as possible so they won't talk, they won't uproar, they won't demand change. What is WRONG with our country. I'm so sick of this! I see no peaceful end in sight. And you know what, we all saw it coming, and we didn't do anything. He should be impeached, the lunatic.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

AN OPTION TO END THE WAR WITHOUT VETO OR FUNDING CUT
Posted by: leafsong1 on May 4, 2007 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress has the power to simply declare the war ended. The Constitution grants them that exclusive power, and the President cannot veto it. Neither can they be accused of not funding the troops or tresspassing on the CIC's duties. Such a declaration could be passed with a majority vote. It would be clearly treasonous for the President to ignore it. Why isn't this simple and straighforward excercise of clearly delineated congressional power even being discussed?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Smoking something too strong Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
Red Brown and Blue Party comment
Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on May 4, 2007 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's an oversimplification but simple truths are...well...simple. Democrats have empathy but no guts; Republicans have guts but no empathy. The moral? The Republicrat ship of fools is headed for the falls; get off at the next stop and walk; or ride a hot air balloon, and laugh and weep at the comedy/tragedy taking place below.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

y'know, YDOTHEYHATEUS
Posted by: Squarehead on May 4, 2007 10:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To YDOTHEYHATEUS

I think you might well be a provocateur, offering this version of a very shitty selfish ego to point out the crap that exists out there.

Some of the schtick you offer (you're too valuable, guys joining the military are low-income losers, nobody is forcing them to join etc) has appeared in Doonesbury... but is that life imitating art, or the other way round? and your naive dislike - hatred of Islam and of moslems. Wow.

Or then again you might be Dick Cheney.. I mean, he must really think like that.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: You are confused.... Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
Give Bush his victory
Posted by: Sum Won on May 4, 2007 9:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Saddam has been toppled
2) Iraq's WMD's are no longer a threat.
3) Haliburton and American Oil companies have the oil. The mercenary army that is in place can assume the responsibility of securing it at their expense.

Mission accomplished! Now we just need Congress to provide him some orwellian gobblygook for our fearless leader to pronounce it. Tell him there will be a parade and a statue in his honor and the opportunity to make a speach where we'll all clap and cheer.

Convince him he won as it is the fastest way to saving lives.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We did win already -
Posted by: Snowpuppy on May 4, 2007 10:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) There were no WMD.
2) Saddam was removed long ago.
3) Rebuilding anything at this time is impossible.
4) Only mindless carnage remains.

News Flash: Cheney's $400MM stock options from Halliburton expire in 2009.

Finally, one aspect of staying the course reveals some logic.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Send It Back with More Stringent Time Tables
Posted by: unlawflcombatnt on May 5, 2007 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress & the Senate should send it back, and move the time tables up. And each time Bush vetoes it, move the time tables up even more, eventually moving the timetables up to the current time, meaning an immediate withdrawal.

Even if the Dems aren't willing to go that far, they could approve a temporary 2-month funding while the try to garner more support.

The Dems hava already approved funding. It's Bush who's denying the funding. If he wants to continue denying funding, let him. The Dems just need to keep hammering home the point that Bush's veto = cutting the funding for the troops.

If Bush doesn't want to fund the troops with time tables, then he can keep vetoing the bill(s). He's the one cutting the funding, not the Dems.

It's unfortunate that the main stream media shills keep framing this as an issue of whether Dems will give in and "just fund the troops." Dems already have. What the media should be saying is "when will Bush just give in and fund the troops, instead of being an 'obstructionist.' "

The majority of Americans want the troops home ASAP. The majority of Americans want strick time tables for withdrawal. Many of that majority want an immediate withdrawal.

It's only the Corporate media scumbags that want the troops to remain. An immediate withdrawal would reduce their stock market earnings in the Defense and Oil industries. And it would make their lavish international travel & vacations less safe. Poor babies.

The mainstream Right-Wing media is doing exactly what it did in the lead up to the Iraq War: Distorting the truth and mis-framing the debate on funding.

In reality, the Dems have Bush right where they want him. If he vetoes Iraq funding bills, it is Bush who is cutting off the funding. And it will be Bush who gets the blame for starting the war, as well as defunding it.

Don't just "let" Bush veto the funding. Encourage a veto. Make each bill's timetable more stringent than the last one. Each subsequent veto will bring the war closer to an end. And, as a result, each veto will save the lives of more American soldiers.

Dems need to stop even considering compromise. War funding is the exclusive domain of Congress, not the President.

unlawflcombatnt

Economic Populist Forum

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Presidential recall
Posted by: bric0001 on May 6, 2007 9:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's get our reps and senators across the aisles to build us a recall law for Presidents and Vice-Presidents, in case our country is dragged off into another treasonous, economy-destroying war or artificially lowering the cost of labor by importing a huge army of cheap workers to impoverish all the rest of us.

Hey, we can recall governors in some states, reps in others, and it works. Let;s get these bastards out of government and banned from the private sector for life.

Anyone interested in the fact that Halliburton has moved its Head Office to the Persian Gulf? Dubai, I think. I know where Cheney will live out his dishonorable life--wonder if Bush will follow.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement