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How to Prevent a War with Iran

By Phyllis Bennis, TomPaine.com. Posted February 8, 2007.


To stop the looming war with Iran, Congress needs to pre-empt the possibility of the White House launching an attack. The secret weapon is the Boland Amendment.
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In 1982, angered by a White House secretly escalating an unpopular war in Central America, the House passed the Boland Amendment, a rider to the Defense Appropriations Act of 1983.

The amendment was crafted by Massachusetts Congressman Edward Boland, and was designed to cut off funds the CIA and other intelligence agencies were using to carry out sabotage attacks in Nicaragua and to support the anti-government Contra guerrillas. The Senate had a Republican majority at the time, but even members of President Reagan's own party were outraged when he launched his Contra-backing warfare without even notifying Congressional oversight committees.

So far, the newly Democrat-controlled Congress has not been outraged enough to use its constitutionally-mandated power to force an end to the lethal war in Iraq. Perhaps they will still rise to the occasion, ending the war by cutting funds for the war.

But there is still time right now -- before the Bush administration makes good on its rising threats -- to stop the looming war in Iran. We need a new Boland Amendment, one that will pre-empt any possibility of the White House launching an attack against Iran.

In recent weeks the threat of war in Iran has qualitatively escalated. Provocative U.S. attacks on Iranian diplomatic offices, arrests of Iranian officials inside Iraq, and the installation of a second U.S. aircraft carrier group in the Persian Gulf seem all but openly designed to goad Tehran to respond.

Repeated Bush administration threats about "dealing with" alleged Iranian involvement in attacks on U.S. soldiers resonate back to equally unproven claims about Iraq's WMDs. Both have been calculated to ratchet up public and media support for a U.S. attack -- on Iraq then, and on Iran now--and to undercut any potential congressional move to stop a new attack.

Meanwhile, the White House appears oblivious to recent Iranian developments that should have lessened the tensions, including the diminishing domestic popularity of the provocative President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Tehran's apparent technical failures in nuclear power technology.

The timing of the recent intensification of threats against Iran is breathtakingly dangerous for the Bush administration itself. It is emerging even while debate continues in the administration about whether Iraq's U.S.-backed Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is capable of leading the war-wracked country, or whether Washington should reorganize Iraq's government to give more power to the Iranian-backed forces currently at the center of Maliki's own coalition.

It is also a moment in which the U.S. is again increasingly isolated internationally. Canada's right-wing prime minister and former Bush ally Stephen Harper is publicly excoriating the White House for keeping Canadian citizen Maher Arar on the U.S. "no-fly" list despite Arar's absolute exoneration (complete with an official apology and an $8.5 million settlement) by Canada.

Germany and Italy are issuing arrest warrants against dozens of CIA agents involved in the kidnapping and "extraordinary rendition" of European citizens sent to be tortured around the world. And even in loyal Britain, Tony Blair's heir-apparent Gordon Brown has made clear he is considering a very different relationship with Washington than that of "Bush's poodle." Is this a new incarnation of the Old Europe of the months before Bush's Iraq War?

Like so many carefully negotiated congressional moves, the Boland Amendment was in fact neither unequivocal nor absolute. It prohibited the U.S. government from providing military support "for the purpose of overthrowing the Government of Nicaragua."

But it became the symbol of public anger and insistence on ending U.S. support for the Contras and their brutal war. And it thus came to embody an even more powerful check on the White House's war-making capacity than the resolution's actual language might have imposed. When the Reagan team decided to violate the Boland Amendment, to make an end run around the law, their actions lead directly to what quickly became known as the Iran-Contra scandal.

Both former war supporter Republican Congressman Walter Jones and the courageous California Congresswoman Barbara Lee have introduced different bills that take some steps towards prohibiting a U.S. attack on Iran. Either one, or perhaps a different bill altogether, could become the Boland Amendment for Iran -- capturing the breadth of both public anger and congressional opposition.

It remains unclear whether the White House needs to be concerned about Congress actually cutting off funds for the war in Iraq. But it is certain that the Bush administration is very worried about the possibility of a new Boland Amendment to prevent an attack on Iran. As one former senior intelligence official told Seymour Hersh, "they're afraid that Congress is going to vote a binding resolution to stop a hit on Iran, à la Nicaragua in the Contra war."

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See more stories tagged with: iran, boland amendment

Phyllis Bennis is a fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, D.C. She is the author of the forthcoming, "Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy U.S. Power" (Interlink Publishing, October 2005).

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Not to worry!
Posted by: Temporary on Feb 8, 2007 12:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Americans seem to have too much money sand spare time on your hands. Well, dont worry! I have an "itch" that you will soon be preoccupied with something else!

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» RE: Not to worry! Posted by: Dboy
nature wants WAR
Posted by: richholland on Feb 8, 2007 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War is a natural thing, if the herd is to big the cattle go else where. To support the rich billionaires America must have always wars;
WAR on Drugs, WAR on PEDOS, WAR on veggies.
We had the Roman Empire, we the British Empire, killing milliones of people., destroying envirment.
Why USA spends twice the amount on war per inhabitant as Europe??? In the past you said it is to free the world of fascisme, then to free the world of communisme now of TERROR,
Why you have 10 times more people in jail we have in EUrope???

The solution is to spend your money for the community,
social welfare, health insurance (Europe vacacions 1 month...america 2 weeks)
If the companies cannot make profit on arms anymore there will be less WAR.

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» RE: nature wants WAR Posted by: paschn
» RE: nature wants WAR Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: nature wants WAR Posted by: Dboy
» RE: nature wants WAR Posted by: otto
» RE: nature wants WAR Posted by: moflard
This whole premise is absurd
Posted by: edsmith on Feb 8, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It remains unclear whether the White House needs to be concerned about Congress actually cutting off funds for the war in Iraq. But it is certain that the Bush administration is very worried about the possibility of a new Boland Amendment to prevent an attack on Iran. As one former senior intelligence official told Seymour Hersh, "they're afraid that Congress is going to vote a binding resolution to stop a hit on Iran, à la Nicaragua in the Contra war."

First of all, the Corporation called the Democratic Congress is gutless and spineless and they'd rather play for votes and corporate money than play for real American people and values. Pelosi made the Repubs choose which side of Bush they're on with regard to pro-war or pro-peace. In 2008 she'll wipe more of the assholes out of congress after Bush is gone providing he and his ZOG neoNuts and Zionist Izraeli masters haven't nuked Iran and plunged the world into complet chaos. If AmerIzrael does not nuke Iran Congress will go back to business as usual with the only difference being that the RepliCrat elite will begin fetching their scraps and bones once again back for the masses to nibble on.
Second, The Boland Amendment didn't stop Reagans "wink and a nod" war against Latin American Democracy, nor did it stop our clandestine agencies like the CIA and DEA from smuggling cocaine to fund it and other Black Ops and line their own pockets. The US government became the biggest drug smuggling gang in the West while Reagan?bush were in charge - but that's a whole different isue. So, in fact, since the Boland Ammendment was ignored, and since the then Democratic controlled congress chose not to pursue Reagans illegal warmaking and drug smuggling, Democrats have lost all credibility as an opposition party and more or less became the most useless and impotent kind of politacl party the country has ever had. As a result, corrupt assholes like Joe's Lieberman and Biden are still in their seats doding the will of the ZOG and corporations. What we need is a new revolution to rid America of the corrupt and evil elite and Izraels influence ovr our tax dollars and foreign policy.

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Start with ridding US government form Izrael and AIPAC agents
Posted by: edsmith on Feb 8, 2007 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need Americans, the kind who put American interests first, running our government and we need to stop sending $10,000,000.00 a year in U.S. taxpayer money to Izrael to kep that pissant country afloat and at perpetual war with it's neighbors.

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Extreme danger - urgent call to action
Posted by: chorton on Feb 8, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Phyllis Bennis' account is right on the money about what needs to be done. The situation is more dangeroud though than her article conveys, and the need to bring this kind of pressure on Congress more urgent.

Iran will be a very tough not to crack. It is much larger than Iraq, with much less favorable terrain for an American-style war. It's government has considerably more popular support. It's armed forces are well-equipped. And it is organized down to the village level for self defense, with reportedly something like a million men under arms. Regime change in Iran will require waging an extended war on the ground against the people of Iran, which will take a large army motivated by a strong sense of grievance, backed by a country prepared to overlook mass atrocities.

The key question to consider here is this: if the US goes to war with Iran, and if – as it seems it must if regime change is the goal - it becomes a ground war, where will Bush and Cheney find the troops to win? They don’t have enough troops to pacify Iraq, never mind taking on Iran. This objection is often raised by people arguing that Bush can’t really be planning to do this, or that he’s just going to drop some bombs and then stop. This question requires some serious thinking about, as it may be a key to understanding what Bush is going to do.

By the rules of the game, as they are being played now, Bush is beaten. To control Iraq, not to mention to defeat and bring about regime change in Iran, he needs more money, a free hand, and especially a much bigger army. This would require a draft, military conscription, something he dare not even mention under present conditions. As evidenced by the Baker Commission report and the November election results, the ruling class is now divided about Bush's Middle East project. It would appear that Bush would have to retreat; yet he is escalating, and showing no signs that he is conceding. He is very clear about his intention of winning.

So is Bush crazy? A deluded fool? A loser playing out his last act? I don't think so. Bush is a master game player. To win this round, he has to change the rules of the game.

My model for understanding Bush/Cheney is that they are players in the biggest game around, the game of world power, representing the big oil and coal interests, the military industrial complex and the most reactionary elements of the US ruling class. Their strategy appears to be to preserve and expand U.S. dominance in the world by securing control of the remaining oil reserves.

Bush has one good move left, and he can be expected to take it. Bush's next move is to provoke, stage or arrange a crisis, probably involving an outrageous event which can be blamed on Iran. Something that will let him go to Congress and the people and demand and get what he needs.

The really sobering thing to focus on is this: given the legacy of Vietnam, and the mood of the country and the Congress about Iraq and the Bush Presidency, to get military conscription the incident would have to be something big. Very big. It's going to take something much more serious than an attack on a PT Boat. The 9/11 attack sets a high standard for outrageous incidents.

We must strongly urge people to bombard their representatives, the media and their friends and relations to expose and oppose this criminal war, and stop it before it happens. We must however be prepared to see our efforts swept away in a wave of mass hysteria.

The single best way to prepare people for understanding this and for being able to continue the struggle under the greatly altered conditions that will follow is to engage them in the struggle to try to stop it now.

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David taunts goliath
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Feb 8, 2007 6:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Provocative U.S. attacks on Iranian diplomatic offices, arrests of Iranian officials inside Iraq, and the installation of a second U.S. aircraft carrier group in the Persian Gulf seem all but openly designed to goad Tehran to respond.

Strange I thought that all this was in response to Iran's war waging statements
Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad declared that Israel should be “wiped off the map” and warned Arab countries against developing economic ties with Israel in response to its withdrawal from Gaza.

His remarks, delivered at a conference in Tehran entitled “A World without Zionism”, led to diplomatic protests by the UK, France and Spain, while Shimon Peres, Israel’s deputy prime minister, said Iran should be expelled from the United Nations.

In Washington, spokesmen for the Bush administration said the statement underscored US concern over Iran’s nuclear weapons program.

or

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel on Friday and said it was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time.

"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," Ahmadinejad said at the opening of a conference in support of the Palestinians. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."

Ahmadinejad provoked a world outcry in October when he said Israel should be "wiped off the map."


That said.. I agree that Iran is probably years away, if ever from producing a nuclear weapon.. although N Korea could change that in seconds.. I suspect their saber rattling is aimed more at posturing Iran as a formidable power in the region than anything else - mush like Iran has a cure for aids...

But there is no doubt that Iran is providing Iraqi insurgents with technical know how for making shaped charges etc for IED's and maybe providing weapons as well, not to mention fanning the flames there.

To even consider attacking Iran though is foolish and will embroil this country in war in that region for years to come! I suspect the second carrier battle group is also aimed more at posturing than anything else.

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» RE: David taunts goliath Posted by: Dboy
» RE: David taunts goliath Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Take on ........ Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: David taunts goliath Posted by: pingoo
» RE: David taunts goliath Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: David taunts goliath Posted by: Habaro
Rosa Azadi:
Posted by: rwa on Feb 8, 2007 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It feels so different watching an aircraft carrier group coming toward you than watching it sailing away from you toward another part of the world.

I'm an American who used to live in New York City. All my life, when I heard about warships, it was US warships going places far away. I never even imagined hostile warships sailing toward New York. Now I'm in Tehran, and aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis is heading our way. And as it sails, people are discussing Israel and/or the US bombing Iran as if my family and 69 million other people weren't even here. I'm getting scared.

Most Iranians that I know don't worry about this as much as I do, though they're wondering how the sanctions will affect the economy. Khomeini had a famous saying that we actually saw on a sign yesterday in another town: "America can't do anything to us." Some friends here speculate that Bush just needs an enemy so that he can continue his programs in the US, and that Iran is the enemy du jour. I wish I could believe that.

The way I see it, somebody has to stop the US president right now, and it's very upsetting that the Congress isn't doing it. My frustration is greater because I'm in a country where the Internet is not completely available. For example, I tried to send a donation to Dennis Kucinich, but PayPal wouldn't take it because of the embargo. I tried to write to my Congressperson, but the Islamic Republic blocked the communication, presumably because it was with the US government. (Sometimes news stories that I want to read are blocked, too, but there are ways around that.)

If the US and/or Israel attack Iran, it will be a war based on lies, just like the Iraq war. Iraq didn't have WMD, but Iraqis died in the hundreds of thousands. The lies about Iran seem intended to, first, make Iran look like the new Nazi state that must be bombed so as to avoid a new Holocaust, and second, make Americans fear that Iran will hurt our soldiers in Iraq or give nuclear weapons to terrorists who will hurt us in "the homeland."

History shows that Americans are very susceptible to demonization of particular leaders of countries that the US wants to attack. Remember Castro? Noriega? Saddam? Now it's Ahmadinejad. Whatever people think of views attributed to Ahmadinejad, it remains the case that it's not morally acceptable to kill people because of their president, whether that president be Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or George Bush.

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» Rosa: Posted by: rwa
» Military Matters Posted by: rwa
» RE: Military Matters Posted by: moflard
» RE: Military Matters Posted by: rwa
» RE: osa Azadi: Posted by: Tia1965
Ron Paul the Anti-War Candidate:
Posted by: rwa on Feb 8, 2007 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Unproven charges against Iran's nuclear intentions are eerily reminiscent of the false charges made against Iraq before we invaded that country," said Ron Paul, a lawmaker from President George W. Bush's own Republican Party, during an appearance by Rice before a congressional panel.

He said "unproven accusations of Iranian support for the Iraqi insurgency" were also serving as a pretext for "escalating our sharp rhetoric toward Iran."

"Pressed for proof of dramatic claims of Iranian involvement in Iraq, the administration keeps promising that they are compiling it," he said.

"This sounds like Iraq, where accusations came first and proof was supposed to come later — only that proof never came because the accusations turned out to be false," he said, referring to now discredited allegations that Saddam Hussein's regime was building weapons of mass destruction.

AFP
http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/117829

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Instead of sitting on your arses...
Posted by: pingoo on Feb 8, 2007 9:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
how about this for a solution: Popular Uprising? Until you stop relying on your governmet to find a solution that suits you they will keep riding you like a Wild West pony.

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Don't hold your breath. . .
Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 8, 2007 9:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress isn't going to do anything but draft worthless little resolutions! Why? Because war is good for business, and actually standing for something is bad for legislative longevity.

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What price glory?
Posted by: mom'z the word on Feb 8, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Write a New Boland resolution? Whats wrong with the old one? Congress keeps itself busy by reinventing the wheel. We already have everything we need to do what needs to be done. There is the Constitution and the War Powers Act of 1973 for starters. So what is the problem? Harry S. Truman said, "It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." If we used the Constitution to end the war who gets credit? Nobody. Is that why every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a resolution on the table? Glory seeking politicians looking to win elections write resolutions. For this Congress writing resolutions is not about ending the war or preventing new conflicts. It is about getting all the glory and using it to win more elections. Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed. This is politics and people are dying.

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dick
Posted by: rtmyth on Feb 9, 2007 7:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress and the Admin are under Israel's control where the middle east is concerned, and the other power elite are eager to continue a war economy. Thus, the mayhem there will continue .

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Iran
Posted by: curious43 on Feb 9, 2007 3:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check this link out - and remember if it is your country that is attacked no how much you did not like your government you would join to fight the attackers - why should Iran be any different?
http://www.watchingamerica.com/alriyadh000007.shtml

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But, GHWB owns everybody
Posted by: JoeCraine on Feb 10, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C'mon, there's not a single member of the gang of 535 that is independent of this monster.

He wants his war money and he's going to get it.

Joe Craine

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Don't Stop funding, just don't war with Iran
Posted by: adamSCusa on Feb 13, 2007 12:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off, if they funds were cut off to the military, and their efforts there would be a collapse in our military. We would lose strength as a military force, and credibility. It would make us look weak, not in control, and very vulnerable. Since the beginning of the United States, the military has been a key reason for our success as a country. Europeans will always be in gratitude for our involvement in the World Wars.
As could be said our military has contributed just as negatively in the world (creation of nuclear warfare, Iraq, Vietnam), every country has their ups and downs in military actions, and no one has a clean slate.
Since when did War get so popular anyway? What happened to good old assassinations, surely taking out the Iranian president could help the US goals in the Middle East, but as we know President does not read books, he must have been watching the recent Spielberg flick Munich http://imdb.com/title/tt0408306/ , and realized if you take one terrorist, evil official out, another will arise in his place, and he may be more radical and violent then the previous one, and then again, and again, a continuous cycle. And the repercussions to those assassinations could be bad, but is a war better?
Now, Iran should not be attacked. This would be a devastating blow to the United States. We already have a tarnished image in the world for our recent Iraq actions, why dig our hole deeper? For me, the United States is acting like a prima dona athlete, and sooner or later it might be exposed it is on steroids. Iran is Persia. The United States should not try and be Alexander the Great. If you know nothing on the history of Iran and Persia please view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran . One would hope that President Bush and VP Cheney would have knowledge of this, but for men who rarely expose themselves to other cultures, nor visit other countries, they may not have the knowledge of an 8th grade level of history class. We could learn a lot from looking at the trends of history to determine what proper actions should be taken in the future. That never happens. Iran is a place that for thousands of years has had changing governments and tumultuous warring times. They are no strangers to fighting. it is in their blood line. Mixed with a new bloodline of radical Muslim views, it makes for a dangerous mix. Iran is a whole other world. Women and men work on separate floors of the office, women do not have the freedoms in the United States. It is a whole other world and culture, a twilight zone compared to the United States, and many feel they would fight to the death for their beliefs. Although it may not be PC in 2007, and many would hope the culture would evolve, it is their right to do what they want. These are not the sort of people you want to have as your enemy though. They will not hold back, but hey, neither will the United States. The first to get hit would be Israel, and they would also be our front lines. But how many Arab nations would then band together and try to finish off Israel and their goal to push its citizens into the Mediterranean? It would be chaos, the beginnings of a world war. Oil lines disrupted, trade routes, travel, terrorism, shockwaves around the world. At home on US soil, tired soldiers from an Iraq campaign would be again shipped out. With a diminished military, would there be a draft? Would college students then wake up out of their comfortable lives and protest like it was 1969? Would US soil be hit again? Where would the new soldiers come from, the ghettos, the poor, impoverished fighting for the politicians who could care less about their well being. Is this Democratic? Would it be safe to walk the streets at night, would that freedom be taken away? And in the end of this chaos theory, is their nuclear fallout, or does it look like Middle Ages Europe?

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Don't Stop funding, just don't war with Iran Continued
Posted by: adamSCusa on Feb 13, 2007 12:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is why we should not go to war with Iran. There is no positive, only negatives. We make less friends in the world, and back ourselves into a corner. We go further into debt, the poor get poorer, education, health all decline, a waste of a so called “superpower.” Iran is one of the world’s oldest civilizations, and it is unlikely they are going to stop existing, or give in to anyone, even the United States. The world needs to grow up, it’s not a playground with bullies, geeks, jocks, etc. We are humanity. We have one earth. Isn’t that enough?
Please View, http://harpers.org/sb-war-with-iran-1-1171385486.html which affirms many of my fears that the Bush administration is considering going in against Iran, with commentary with some of the world’s best scholars on the subject.
To promote change, The US should once again try and make friends with the rest of the world who share common fears and skepticism of Iran to force change. But we all know its about the oil. Don’t believe it? View the CIA fact book https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html on Iran, and look at what Iran has, and how they make $60 Billion dollars in a pinch from charging whatever they want for their precious commodity which the US is addicted to. Iran traffics heroin to the addicts in Europe, as oil is trafficked to the oil-addicted US. I think the country needs some rehab…

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How can we be sure to avert a potential crisis of horrific proportions?
Posted by: representativepress on Feb 20, 2007 3:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree, Bush must be stopped. With his words and actions, Bush has made it clear that nothing short of impeachment will stop him from starting another war. With his words and actions, Bush has made it clear that he is dangerous and nothing short of impeachment can protect the American people. Bush must be impeached in order to prevent him from damaging our security and needlessly getting who knows how many more Americans killed. It is past time to put a stop to this self declared "War President." The man has proven that he is not fit to be Commander in Chief.

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It's Very Simple
Posted by: bob t on Mar 6, 2007 11:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stop the republican party and there will be no war with Iran resulting in the loss of millions of lives. To stop the republican is also very simple. You just take away their voters. Remember elections are won by small margins, depriving the republicans of just a one or two million votes will stop them. And how does one go about that, very simple. We can take away ten million votes, or more form the rethugs. How, oh so simple. Stop the catholic votes, my religion but not me, and the rethugs would lose at least ten million votes. How do we do that, oh so simple. Stop Pope Benedict XVI from meddling in american politics and policy both foreign and domestic and take away his control of catholic voters and their votes. The catholic church is totally aligned with the republican party. The Pope and the Catholic voters have beome corrupt criminals of the republican party. That will stop the cxatholic and repub party of war, killing and maiming for profit. We must either break that connection between catholic voters and the pope and the SCOTUS btw. Catholics were once decent people and maybe they can be persuaded to forget the pope and vote their conscience and vote for the laws of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Just maybe they can still remember those things. Popes can and have been very wrong many times. Surely the destruction of america and the killing in the ME ranks as one of these times. Two corrupt popes gave us WWII and the Holocaust as they endorsed Hitler and the Nazi party. Two corrupt popes now gae us Ronald Reagan, Bush and Bush and the repub party of death.

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