COMMENTS: 201
How Jesus Endorsed Bush's Invasion of Iraq
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest World headlines via email.
For much of the past 25 years, a small group of Catholic intellectuals has worked to inject its radical religious ideas into the nation's politics. The leader of this theoconservative movement is Father Richard John Neuhaus. In the pages of his monthly magazine First Things, Neuhaus and his ideological allies set the theocon agenda on a range of policies. Michael Novak of the American Enterprise Institute argues that the American founders were orthodox religious believers who thought of the United States as a Christian nation -- and that American-style capitalism perfectly conforms to Catholic social teaching. Robert P. George of Princeton University insists that abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, and same-sex marriage (and perhaps even contraception and masturbation) should be outlawed. And George Weigel of Washington's Ethics and Public Policy Center uses Catholic just-war reasoning to justify neoconservative foreign policy. As the U.S. began to prepare for war in Iraq in 2002, the theocons set out to provide theological justification for the coming conflagration.
Around the time of the January 2002 State of the Union speech -- when President Bush broadened the scope of the "war on terror" to include an "axis of evil" consisting of Iraq, Iran, and North Korea -- the mood on the American right began to grow fierce. What had been a uniform chorus of patriotic support for the president and the Afghanistan campaign quickly evolved into a frenzy of bellicosity. Some columnists denounced deterrence and stability in favor of unilateral preemptive war to overthrow hostile regimes. Others openly advocated American imperialism. Still others proposed that the United States act to topple the governments of a series of sovereign nations in the Muslim Middle East, including Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. And these were the intellectually respectable suggestions, published in mainstream newspapers and long-established journals of opinion. Farther down the media hierarchy, on cable news, Internet websites, and Web blogs, conservatives of all stripes closed ranks, unleashing a verbal barrage on any and all who dissented from a united front in favor of unapologetic American military muscle. The participants in this endless pep rally were insistent on open-ended war, overtly hostile to dissent, and thoroughly unforgiving of the slightest criticism of the United States abroad. They were dismissive of complication and analysis, defensive by default, worshipful of "manliness," admiring of swaggering bluntness, contemptuous of doubt and indecision, addicted to hyperbole, eager to expose "appeasement," and prone to paranoia. Self-congratulation and self-righteousness ruled the day.
The theocons contributed to this atmosphere of pro-war hysteria in several ways. Neuhaus established himself as the rare priest who would grant interviews to National Public Radio in order to defend the justice of invading Iraq. Weigel spoke on college campuses about the administration's firm grasp of the just war tradition. And Novak traveled to Rome to lecture Vatican bureaucrats on the importance of deposing Saddam Hussein and transforming Iraq into a democratic oasis in Middle East. But by far the most significant theocon statement on the invasion of Iraq was Weigel's "Moral Clarity in a Time of War," which he delivered as a lecture in the fall of 2002 at the Catholic University of America Law School before publishing it as a lengthy essay in the January 2003 issue of First Things. The essay was clearly written to provide moral and theological justification for the Bush administration's Iraq policy in every one of its details.
Weigel's case for war ran as follows. In the post-September 11 world, the "peace of order" among nations is fundamentally threatened by international terrorist organizations and rogue states that traffic in weapons of mass destruction. In an ideal world, the UN would possess the means and the will to deal with these threats through the use of coercive military force. But, alas, the UN is deficient in both means and will. Luckily, the United States possesses both in abundance, just as it recognizes the unique responsibility for maintaining global order that flows from its status as the world's preeminent military power. America thus has the solemn duty to act as the worldwide enforcer of international justice -- including the punishment of those who flout the peace of order -- regardless of whether the other nations of the world recognize the legitimacy of such action. In serving as providentially appointed prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner of international justice around the world, the United States furthers its own good (at home and abroad) as well as the good of all decent human beings on the planet. The unilateral overthrow of the government of Saddam Hussein is one example of such righteous American action, but it is hardly the only likely or defensible one to take place in the near future.
When Weigel provided the Bush administration with this moral and theological go-ahead for unilateral war with Iraq (as well as with any number of other rogue states around the world), he was well aware that most religious leaders and a great many public intellectuals both in the United States and abroad did not share his assessment of the situation. Based on any number of considerations -- suspicion about administration evidence of the Iraqi threat, a desire to allow UN inspectors to complete their work, fear that an invasion would spark a regional conflagration, doubts about America's ability to manage an occupation and transition to a decent and stable post-Hussein political order -- these writers had concluded that the coming invasion would fall far short of meeting the standards for a just war.
In response to such critics, Weigel insisted that the question of whether the war was just had to be bracketed off from the question of whether it was wise -- and that the second question could only be answered by the political powers-that-be, who had access to privileged information and intelligence not possessed by private citizens. Going further, Weigel suggested that statesmen reached their final decision for war through the exercise of a "charism of political discernment" enjoyed by all "duly constituted public authorities." This charism -- or gift of the holy spirit -- is "not shared by bishops, stated clerks, rabbis, imams, or ecumenical and interreligious agencies" -- all of whom should exercise "a measure of political modesty" in addressing questions of war and peace. (Nowhere did Weigel indicate that modesty was a quality required of politicians and their foreign policy advisors.) It was difficult to read these words without concluding that the theocon message to critics of the administration's foreign policy was to keep their mouths shut and put their faith in the divinely inspired wisdom of the President of the United States.
Without expanding on Weigel's speculations about special political charisms, Neuhaus amplified his friend's point four months later, in an essay written just as the American invasion of Iraq began. On the one hand, Neuhaus had considerable "confidence in those responsible for making the relevant decisions" in the Bush administration. On the other hand, he viewed the many antiwar statements of church leaders, and especially those emanating from the Vatican, with "disappointment, and more than a little embarrassment." As far as Neuhaus was concerned, the lesson to be drawn from the whole sorry episode was obvious:
Ranking ecclesiastics took the time of U.S. decision-makers, badgering them about whether they had thought of this possible consequences or that. ... The simple truth is that such consequences are unknowable and therefore unknown, except to God. I know that possible consequences have been considered, day and night for many months, by competent parties. ... Religious leaders should bring more to the discussion than their fears. Nervous hand-wringing is not a moral argument.As American troops began their march to Baghdad, the theocons made it clear that the moral duty of religious leaders was to stop "badgering" the administration so that it could get on with waging its unquestionably just war to disarm Saddam Hussein.
As the Iraq war got underway on March 20, 2003, Neuhaus grew noticeably tense. On the Monday following the start of the invasion -- after a weekend during which millions of Americans entertained themselves by watching U.S. missiles flatten the Baghdad skyline while "embedded" television reporters swooned over their up-close-and-personal views of the country's military machine in action -- Neuhaus appeared preoccupied but pleased. Quietly discussing the progress of the war on the phone with Weigel, who conveyed inside information from their friends and allies in the administration, Neuhaus felt reassured about his decision to support the war so emphatically. Yet his underlying uncertainty and stress rushed to the surface as he skimmed through a powerful antiwar essay by historian Tony Judt in the New York Review of Books. In Judt's view, the United States under George W. Bush was driven by "an eschatological urge to tear down a frustrating international order," all the while exaggerating the threats to its power and underestimating the risks of acting recklessly in the world. Reading these words, Neuhaus exploded in anger, lashing out in acidic sarcasm at the suggestion that the president had acted out of any motive besides his duty to protect the innocent against Iraqi aggression. As far as Neuhaus was concerned, Judt was just another smug liberal, failing to acknowledge and appreciate America's obligation as the world's preeminent power to punish injustice and maintain order around the globe, regardless of worldwide public opinion.
Over the next few weeks, as the American invasion continued its press toward Baghdad, Neuhaus's temper would flare again and again, sparked by what he viewed as the defeatist coverage of the war in the New York Times. The Times had been a constant source of annoyance, and an inspiration for several snide remarks in nearly every one of his monthly magazine columns, for many years. Not only was its influence unmatched by any other media outlet, but its reporting and editorial outlook perfectly expressed the elitist, secularist ideology that his own movement had been conjured to oppose. But now, perhaps egged on by several right-wing websites that had made a habit of accusing the paper of treason on a daily basis, he insisted that the bias in the Times's coverage of the war was unprecedented. Each day Neuhaus entered the First Things office in a foul mood, threatening to cancel his subscription to the paper and fuming about the latest front-page story to imply that the war was already on the verge of becoming a quagmire. "Two weeks in and they're already calling it Vietnam!" Neuhaus considered it indefensible to draw even the most casual comparison between the invasion of Iraq and America's ill-fated war in Southeast Asia.
These outbursts would stop very soon, replaced by pride and satisfaction as American troops entered Baghdad in early April nearly without a fight. Within days, Neuhaus's mood swung from defensive to euphoric, eventually leading him to give in to the temptation to gloat. At the May meeting of the First Things editorial board, just days after President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" from the deck of an aircraft carrier, Neuhaus and Weigel invariably spoke of the war in the past tense and expressed open admiration for the manifest skill of the Bush administration in waging such an overwhelmingly successful military campaign. When questioned by a skeptical participant in the meeting about whether it was sensible for the nation's leaders to continue to craft policy under the assumption that all goods -- the good of the United States at home and abroad, the good of the Iraqi people, the good of Israel, the good of Europe, and the good of the entire world -- were compatible with one another, Neuhaus tersely replied that "it may very well be God's will that all good things do go together at this moment in history."
Adopting a similarly triumphant tone in his column for the August/September issue of First Things, Neuhaus confidently asserted that critics of the war had been "abysmally wrong on almost every point" -- a fact that needed to be "clearly established on the public record" so that their concerns could be easily dismissed in the run-up to whatever military campaign might follow the liberation of Iraq. That American troops had thus far failed to find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction was, he admitted, "troubling." Yet this (temporary) failure did not for a moment raise "questions about the liberation of Iraq." On the contrary, the invasion had been so successful -- above all in combining military potency with precision targeting of weapons, thus keeping civilian casualties to a minimum -- that the time had come to rethink a crucial aspect of the just war tradition. In future conflicts, Neuhaus suggested, it might become possible to conceive of "military action in terms not of the last resort but of the best resort."
Neuhaus would not mention Iraq again in the pages of the magazine for over a year, as the hunt for chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons dragged on and conditions under the American occupation at first failed to improve and then began to deteriorate. It took many months for Neuhaus and the other theocons to acknowledge the truth of the situation, even in private. By this point, they were relying almost entirely on conservative opinion journals, editorial pages, and White House memoranda for their information, and these sources naturally went out of their way to highlight the little good news emerging from Iraq while attributing the seemingly endless stream of bad news in the mainstream media to liberal bias.
As the months passed and the number of insurgent attacks on American forces and Iraqi civilians multiplied, theocon confidence began to waver. Yet there was little they thought they could do about the situation. Bush was heading into an election year, and they still considered the administration's domestic agenda to be far more crucial to their plans than the progress of the war; criticism of the president or members of his cabinet, which would only weaken him politically and antagonize theocon contacts in the White House, was therefore unthinkable. Although Neuhaus's spirits were buoyed after a May 2004 meeting at the White House during which the president appeared calm and confident about the situation in Iraq, the effect was temporary.
Over the next six months, as conditions in Iraq continued to worsen and the president ran a tight race for re-election against Democrat John Kerry, Neuhaus expressed public exasperation with the Bush administration only once -- in response to stories of torture and abuse of detainees at the American-run Abu Ghraib prison outside of Baghdad. Yes, he admitted to his fellow conservatives, much of the worldwide criticism of the United States in the wake of the torture scandal had been "motivated by opposition to American policy or generalized America-bashing." But the fact was that the U.S. had provided these critics with everything they needed to make the country look bad. Taking a strong stand against the abuse, Neuhaus declared flatly that torture was "never morally permissible" and that "we dare not trust ourselves to torture," which should be forbidden "absolutely." Strangely, though, Neuhaus made a point of stepping back from this position five months later, several weeks after Bush had been safely re-elected to a second term in office. Assuring his readers that he still believed that "we dare not trust ourselves to torture," he now "acknowledged" that such a stance was not "sufficient." Whether his change of heart had come about through independent reflection or the influence of powerful friends who had taken offense at his criticism of the Bush administration was something about which readers were left to speculate. (On the First Things Web blog, On the Square on November 28, 2005, Neuhaus seemed to revert to his original statement of absolute condemnation of torture, endorsing Senator John McCain's proposed ban on torture against the pro-torture arguments of neocon Charles Krauthammer.)
Other than his harsh words about Abu Ghraib in the October issue of First Things, Neuhaus and the other theocons kept silent about conditions in Iraq through the summer and fall of 2004. By late summer this silence had inspired a First Things reader named Peter Dula to pen a lengthy missive attacking the journal for its refusal to revise its pre-war position in light of subsequent events. Writing from Jordan after having spent several months in post-invasion Baghdad, Dula understood it was unlikely that the magazine would publish his criticisms, yet he submitted his essay nonetheless, perhaps in the hopes that it might have some influence on Neuhaus's and Weigel's thinking. In the version of the essay eventually published as a cover story in the December 3, 2004 issue of Commonweal magazine, Dula accused the theocons of having gone out of their way to provide theological and moral justification for the administration's plans for Iraq -- and then of succumbing to "moral muteness in a time of war." It was as if the theocons had given the president a green light and then neglected to acknowledge that doing so had led directly to a fatal multi-car collision. As for the question of whether or not theocon claims for the justice of the war had been vindicated in light of events since the fall of Baghdad, Dula left no doubt where he stood: "the absence of weapons of mass destruction and the absence of compelling evidence of a link with Al Qaeda mean there was no just cause for this war." Moreover, "the incompetence and duplicity of the current administration mean that there was no competent authority for this war." And no such war -- one lacking in a just cause and one waged by an incompetent authority -- could be considered just.
Neuhaus never seriously entertained the possibility of publishing this attack on Weigel and himself (and the Bush administration). Yet behind the scenes, Dula's accusations struck a nerve, eventually inspiring Neuhaus to write an essay of his own in which he attempted to defend himself against the indictment. Published in the December issue of First Things, safely after the presidential election, the essay inadvertently illustrated the dangers of making moral judgments in a condition of self-imposed ignorance of the facts. Writing days after the release of the final report on Saddam Hussein's weapons programs by Charles Duelfer and the Iraq Study Group, Neuhaus chose to base his analysis not on the report itself but instead on a heavily redacted and deceptively interpreted version that had been provided to him by Karl Rove's White House deputy, Peter Wehner. Whereas the published report definitively showed that at the time of the invasion Iraq possessed no weapons of mass destruction (having destroyed them, as required by UN Security Council resolutions, many years earlier) and no active programs to develop such weapons, Neuhaus nevertheless claimed to be convinced that "Saddam had the intention and, if America had dallied or left it to the UN, would have had the weaponry to dominate the Middle East and, in collusion with terrorist networks, inflict massive damage on America and the West."
From this and several other statements in the essay it appeared that Neuhaus had decided to reaffirm his pre-war position -- namely, that the "just cause" of the invasion was the attempt to disarm the profoundly dangerous regime of Saddam Hussein. That no weapons were ever found did nothing to undermine the justice of this cause, he claimed, since "leaders do not have the convenience of making decisions retrospectively," and the belief that Iraq possessed such weapons was thoroughly justified "on the basis of what was known" before the war. With this assertion, Neuhaus chose to ignore the numerous post-invasion press reports that had uncovered the alarming extent to which Bush administration officials, along with a compliant media, had deliberately distorted intelligence in the run-up to the war, claiming that the administration knew far more than it did and greatly exaggerating the threat posed by Iraq, at every opportunity. Far from seeking to undermine the invasion, as Neuhaus and other conservatives believed at the time, the New York Times and other mainstream news organizations had published several prominent stories that hyped administration claims (many of which later turned out to be false) without seeking independent confirmation of any kind.
And these media outlets were far from being the only ones to create and perpetuate the illusion that the administration possessed greater knowledge of Saddam's weapons capabilities than it did. The theocons themselves had contributed to fostering the illusion, too -- in their insistence on deferring to the "charism of political discernment" supposedly possessed by the president. As Anglican Archbishop Rowan Williams put it in an essay critical of theocon arguments in favor of the war, Weigel's extreme deference to governmental competence and authority encouraged a "weakening of ... the self-critical habit in [the] nation and its political classes." Williams went on to point out that a country benefits when "lawyers, NGOs, linguists, anthropologists, religious communities, journalists, strategists, [and] military and diplomatic historians" are encouraged to share what they know with political leaders and their advisors -- and when those leaders and advisors remain open-minded enough to listen and learn from the advice. Yet the Bush administration took the diametrically opposite approach, trumpeting its contempt for the "reality-based community" and deliberately closing itself off from dissenting opinions. And the theocons had treated such empty self-assurance as the better part of wisdom.
As if tacitly acknowledging how unconvincing his argument would appear to informed readers, Neuhaus did not simply reiterate his pre-war case for the invasion but actually added to it. Following the lead of President Bush, whose defense of the war had similarly evolved in the eighteen months since he prematurely announced the end of major combat operations, Neuhaus now claimed that "success in Iraq" followed not merely from disarmament but also from "having removed the regime of Saddam Hussein, thus ending the monstrous rule of a systematic perpetrator of crimes against humanity." Contrary to Dula's allegations, then, there was still a just cause for the war, even though Hussein's weapons of mass destruction had proven to be an imaginary threat. In shifting from one justification to another, however, Neuhaus unintentionally highlighted the disturbing flexibility of the just war tradition, which now appeared to be quite capable of sanctifying a remarkably wide range of conflicts.
Neuhaus's essay contained other noteworthy claims -- among them the denial that America's post-war policies in Iraq had been an "unmitigated disaster," which Dula and other critics had used to demonstrate that President Bush was an "incompetent authority." Abstracting completely from his own role in advocating for the war, as well as refusing to render even the slightest judgment of the Bush administration's handling of the aftermath of the invasion, Neuhaus now insisted that "those who condemn the war because soldiers and innocent civilians are killed and maimed are not being serious. This is what happens in war, and is a very good reason for avoiding war."
But perhaps the most extraordinary passage in the essay concerned President Bush's plan to use the American invasion and occupation to transform Iraq into a democracy that could then be exported to the rest of the Middle East -- an aim that promised to serve as yet another retroactive justification for the war. Neuhaus expressed some skepticism about Bush's democratization project, wondering if it made sense to set the standard for success in Iraq quite so high. It would be far more prudent, he suggested, to judge success in Iraq by whether or not, "three or thirty years from now," Iraqis lived under a "reasonably decent and stable government." Given the importance in the just war tradition of precisely defining the anticipated end point to military actions and intentions, this 27-year-long window for determining success was more than a little peculiar.
All told, Neuhaus's self-defense proved less than convincing. But by the time the essay appeared in print, it hardly mattered. By this point -- with Bush about to begin his second term in office -- the theocons had long ago traded in any intellectual respectability they once possessed on matters of war and peace for the opportunity to serve at the pleasure of the president. It was thus hardly surprising that, despite his published reservations about Bush's plans to democratize the Middle East, Neuhaus responded rapturously to the president's astonishingly ambitious second inaugural address, which committed the United States to the goal of "ending tyranny in our world." Just minutes after the conclusion of the speech, Neuhaus received a call from Weigel, who was thrilled that some of the lines he had proposed to the president's speechwriting team had made it into the address. As for Neuhaus, savoring the moment and dreaming of the next four years with his friend and ally on the phone from Washington, he gave every appearance of being a man supremely satisfied.
Excerpted with permission from THE THEOCONS: SECULAR AMERICA UNDER SIEGE, by Damon Linker, published by Doubleday 2006.
Stay up to date with the latest World headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davinci on Oct 28, 2006 12:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» American Foreign Policy and Jihad
Posted by: derfb1
» RE: American Foreign Policy and Jihad
Posted by: willymack
» RE: American Foreign Policy and Jihad
Posted by: Cthulhu
» Wake Up and Smell the Pigs
Posted by: eyeman
» RE: Wake Up and Smell the Pigs
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Wake Up and Smell the Pigs
Posted by: Cthulhu
» RE: Wake Up and Smell the Pigs
Posted by: lively56
» RE: American Foreign Policy and Jihad
Posted by: yellow
» RE: American Foreign Policy and Jihad
Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: American Foreign Policy and Jihad
Posted by: werewolf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Oct 28, 2006 12:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently they've confused the US with their deity, because we're expected to open our borders and do the providing.
You'd think they could at least open the Vatican's borders, but nooooooooooo. Only in this case does the Pope seem to appreciate the concept of "finite carrying capacity."
Utterly beyond parody, isn't it?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: You want open borders, pope-siekins? Open your own!!
Posted by: symcokid
» Open borders
Posted by: derfb1
» RE: Open borders
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Open borders
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: Open borders
Posted by: babs
» RE: Open borders
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: Open borders
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Open borders: YELLOW
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Open borders: YELLOW
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Open borders: YELLOW
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: Open borders: YELLOW
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: Open borders: YELLOW
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: Open borders: YELLOW
Posted by: AdamG
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 28, 2006 12:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 28, 2006 1:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/ signs20061027_BushMovesTowardMartialLaw.php
(Please delete space after last "/")
Stand against ignorance, fear and hatred. Work with your neighbors to restore American democracy.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Bush prepares for Martial Law, please read this:
Posted by: derfb1
» RE: Bush prepares for Martial Law, please read this:
Posted by: wwarner
» RE: Bush prepares for Martial Law, please read this:
Posted by: lively56
Comments are closed-
Posted by: algodees on Oct 28, 2006 1:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Algodees ]Don't blame them.
Posted by: rnagisetty
» RE: Algodees ]Don't blame them.
Posted by: rsaxto
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 28, 2006 2:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently, the fact that the Vatican, twice, under two different popes has vehemently condemned the obscenity that this country is now committing in Iraq in the strongest language printable - means not a thing to these foolish men. As a somewhat lapsed but still believeing member of the Church of Rome let me just say this: any Catholic who supports this war should hang his or her head in shame. I had many reasons for the invasion of Iraq - most of them secular - but the biggest reason was the fact that invading that country, which was a threat to no one but itself - Shock and Awe - flew head-on into the face of my Catholic faith.
It wasn't a "just war". Any thinking person could see that from the first day of the invasion. This was a power grab for the administration of George W. Bush. They wanted to control the oil flowing out of that part of the world and Iraq conveniantly happened to be sitting on what was believed to be the second largest oil reserves on the planet. Had its main export been galvanized bicycle clams, trust me, we wouldn't be there today. This wasn't a war about bringing "freedom and democracy" to the Middle East. Since when has the USA given a hoot in hell about democracy in the Arab world or anywhere elese for that matter. Remember, democracy was ended in Iran over half a century ago - not by religious fanatics - but by the administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower. The Bush Mob are only in power because they were able to steal two elections. Since taking power they have sent our Constitution through the sausage grinder. Are you actually naive enough to believe that they give a damn about freedom?? This was a war that was launched for one reason and one reason only: GREED.
Three months ago, I wrote what I believe to be a fairly rational (for me) essay on the subject called "Christ vs Conservatism: A Serious Conflict". If you'll go to my site (there is a link below) and under "Archives" click on "7/21/06", you'll be able to read it in its entirety.
Pray for peace.
Work for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Correction
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Another correction, Tom
Posted by: Envi
» RE: In A Matter That Must Shame God, Himself
Posted by: jontan88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fg on Oct 28, 2006 3:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Pope John Paul II
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Pope John Paul II
Posted by: tlees2
» RE: Pope John Paul II
Posted by: Ocean tides
» Pope John Paul II's Ban On Contraception Caused Far More Deaths Than The War in Iraq
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Pope John Paul II's Ban On Contraception Caused Far More Deaths Than The War in Iraq
Posted by: fork
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zipper696 on Oct 28, 2006 3:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For info, this is a standard question that a Mason would ask to another person "Are you on the square?" to see if the other was a Mason...
Hardcore Catholics + Masons = New World Order ???
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Well, well, well....
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Well, well, well....
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Well, well, well....
Posted by: aonghus36
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jefhadist on Oct 28, 2006 5:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: jefhadist
Posted by: Tom Degan
» Jesus: "Turn the other cheek." "Love Your Enemies."
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Jesus: "Turn the other cheek." "Love Your Enemies."
Posted by: symcokid
» seriously deranged picture
Posted by: kww355
» RE: seriously deranged picture
Posted by: babs
» Catholic Theos Above W's Head
Posted by: edith
» RE: jefhadist
Posted by: grumpyoldman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Douglas on Oct 28, 2006 5:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: When Was The Catholic Church Ever A Force For Peace?
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: When Was The Catholic Church Ever A Force For Peace?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Were the Slaughtered Cathars Grateful The Catholic Church Postponed Their Murder Until Monday?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Were the Slaughtered Cathars Grateful The Catholic Church Postponed Their Murder Until Monday?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Jesus Was Earlier Than The Catholic Church And Current Morality Still Has Not Caught Up With Him
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Jesus Was Earlier Than The Catholic Church And Current Morality Still Has Not Caught Up With Him
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Jesus Was Earlier Than The Catholic Church And Current Morality Still Has Not Caught Up With Him
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Jesus Was Earlier Than The Catholic Church And Current Morality Still Has Not Caught Up With Him
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Jesus Was Earlier Than The Catholic Church And Current Morality Still Has Not Caught Up With Him
Posted by: lively56
» RE: When Was The Catholic Church Ever A Force For Peace?
Posted by: Salvapath
» RE: When Was The Catholic Church Ever A Force For Peace?
Posted by: mkwagner
» Catholic Apologetics Is Almost As Old As The Church
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Christianity & Roman Catholicism are TOTAL opposites...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: R.I.P. on Oct 28, 2006 6:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Tom: Wrong Picture
Posted by: symcokid
» Jesus picture
Posted by: kww355
Comments are closed-
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Oct 28, 2006 6:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: edith
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: Balanchine
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: edith
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: Balanchine
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: lively56
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: edith
» RE: How Many Mahdis Can Dance On The Head of A Microchip?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Wilco
Posted by: edith
» RE: Wilco
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Oh Yeah
Posted by: edith
» RE: Oh Yeah
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» 666 Is From The Book Of Revelation in the Bible; It Has Nothing at All to Do with Islam
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: 666 Is From The Book Of Revelation in the Bible; It Has Nothing at All to Do with Islam
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Definitely mythological but who can tell if he ever existed or not?
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Definitely mythological but who can tell......
Posted by: Smiggsy
» RE: 666 Is From The Book Of Revelation in the Bible; It Has Nothing at All to Do with Islam
Posted by: edith
» Well if W agrees with you, you must be right!
Posted by: edith
» Is This Silly Post Beneath You?
Posted by: Douglas
» How Many Microchips Can Dance in the Heads of Uninformed Anti-Islamicists?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: How Many Microchips Can Dance in the Heads of Uninformed Anti-Islamicists?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» I Do Not See The Alleged Connection, or Any Connection, Between These Two Passages
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: I Do Not See The Alleged Connection, or Any Connection, Between These Two Passages
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Translation Is One Of Several Problems
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Translation Is One Of Several Problems
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» How Do I Know? The Bible Tells Me So.
Posted by: edith
» Wasn't That The Title of a Dale Evans Hit Song Back in the Early 1950s
Posted by: Douglas
» Kain(translate yourself)
Posted by: edith
» Well, How About the Ten Commandments or Ten Days of Christmas or Eight Days of Hanukah or....
Posted by: edith
» They All Have Numbers In Common! So What? The "Holy Trinity" Is Of Mithraic Origin!
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: They All Have Numbers In Common! So What? The "Holy Trinity" Is Of Mithraic Origin!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Roman Mythology, Zoroastrianism, Judaism and Mithraism All Influenced Catholicism
Posted by: Douglas
» About Mithraism, Additional Research Reveals...
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: About Mithraism, Additional Research Reveals...
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Scholars Are Sure Of The December 25 Date, Your Idiosyncratic Rejection Nonetheless
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Scholars Are Sure Of The December 25 Date, Your Idiosyncratic Rejection Nonetheless
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» The Mythological God Mithra Never Existed; His Mythological Birthdate Was December 25
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Its God's Plan
Posted by: JSquercia
» Be A Klown, Be a Klown
Posted by: edith
Comments are closed-
Posted by: otto on Oct 28, 2006 7:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Inflated Intellectuals?
Posted by: edith
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Thinker on Oct 28, 2006 7:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Neuhaus isn't the Church
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Neuhaus isn't the Church, neither is his Butt Buddy Wiegel.
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mdruss42 on Oct 28, 2006 8:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did I miss something? Did someone offer $5,000,000 for the nuttiest, most outrageous, reactionary, religious proposals? As if the marriage of the Dominionists, with their stoning and back-to-slavery factions, and the Dominationists, with their dreams of the world-as-their-private-oyster was not nutty enough.
MAY WE, IN THE NEAR FUTURE, OR I WILL NOT GET TO SEE IT, AND I REALLY WOULD LOVE TO, HAVE OCCASION TO BE GRATEFUL TO THE SOCIOPATHIC GANG IN WASHINGTON FOR SHINING A VERY BRIGHT SPOTLIGHT ON THE VARIOUS SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS NUTJOBS PRESENTLY OPERATING IN OUR SOCIETY.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Carl Street on Oct 28, 2006 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a strong, practicing Catholic and, unlike many other alleged "Christians" and "Catholics" recognize that the core of our religious faith and spiritual obligations is expressed clearly and concisely in the Sermon on The Mount -- "Whatever you do to the least of MY bretheren, ye have done it to ME."
DAMNATION shall be the lot of those who fail in this regard -- the words of Jesus in Matthew 25:41 are are clear, concise, and unequivocal. There is NO waffling or consideration for religious rank. In fact, Jesus was clear that even those who cast out demons in HIS name would be subject to damnation; and that the final judgement would NOT be based on religious protocols and ceremonies; rather, that it would be based on one's actions towards one's fellow human beings.
Any Catholic or Christian that hopes to take refuge in some kind of religious Nuremburg defense (I was only following the orders of my priest) will be sorely disappointed. You have been given the word of GOD and to try and use some kind of religious lawyering loophole will fail. And, keep in mind all the lawyers will already have preceeded you into the gates of hell anyway.
Those who believe that Jesus would endorse war, torture, and weaponry expenditures while millions suffer privation are securing their own eternal damnation.
Carl Street
carl_street@cjstreet.com
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» How Long Will Pope Innocent III Have To Burn In Hell? How Many Other Popes Are With Him?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: How Long Will Pope Innocent III Have To Burn In Hell? How Many Other Popes Are With Him?
Posted by: Carl Street
» An Intellectually Honest Answer! You Are A Man of Integrity!
Posted by: Douglas
» Hell is Nowhere but what we make of Hell
Posted by: edith
» RE: Hell is Nowhere but what we make of Hell
Posted by: Carl Street
» I Was Not Using the Term "Hell" Literally but Metaphorically In My Posts
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: Carl Street
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: mkeeling@jam.rr.com
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: Carl Street
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests
Posted by: Carl Street
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wawa on Oct 28, 2006 8:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Jefferson Bible: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth
1. Be just: justice comes from virtue which comes from the heart.
2. Treat people the way we want to be treated.
3. Always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with COMPASSION.
4. Consider valuable the things that have no material value.
5. Do not judge others.
6. Do not bear grudges.
7. Be modest and unpretentious.
8. Give out of true generosity, not because we expect to be repaid.
9. Being true to one's self is more important than being loyal to one's family...those who think they know the most are the most ignorant......
"Soon after I had published the pamphlet "Common Sense" [on Feb. 14, 1776] in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion... The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."-Tom Paine
"If enough Christians followed the gospel, they could bring any state to its knees." - Father Philip Francis Berrigan
Public Service message from
WeAreWideAwake.org
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The problem...
Posted by: stormchilde1975
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 28, 2006 8:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Man Comes Around Lyrics
and I heard as it were, the noise of thunder
and one of the four beasts sang,
come and see, I saw,
and behold! a white horse...
There's a man going around taking names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
Everybody won't be treated all the same
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down
When the Man comes around
The hairs on your arm will stand up
At the terror in each sip and in each sup
Will you partake of that last offered cup?
Or disappear into the potter's ground
When the Man comes around
Hear the trumpets, hear the pipers
One hundred million angels singing
Multitudes are marching to the big kettledrum
Voices calling, voices crying
Some are born and some are dying
It's Alpha and Omega's kingdom come
And the whirlwind is in the thorn tree
The virgins are all trimming their wicks
The whirlwind is in the thorn tree
It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks
Till Armageddon no shalam, no shalom
Then the father hen will call his chickens home
The wise man will bow down before the thrown
And at His feet they'll cast their golden crowns
When the Man comes around
Whoever is unjust let him be unjust still
Whoever is righteous let him be righteous still
Whoever is filthy let him be filthy still
Listen to the words long written down
When the Man comes around
Hear the trumpets, hear the pipers
One hundred million angels singing
Multitudes are marching to the big kettledrum
Voices calling and voices crying
Some are born and some are dying
It's Alpha and Omega's kingdom come
And the whirlwind is in the thorn tree
The virgins are all trimming their wicks
The whirlwind is in the thorn tree
It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks
In measured hundred weight and penny pound
When the Man comes around.
"and I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
and behold! a pale horse
and its name that sat on him was death
and hell followed after him..."
Beats Yeats, I think.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The Moon and the Man in black
Posted by: edith
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JCR on Oct 28, 2006 9:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a liberal like most readers here (that is when I'm not burning crosses and hunting down immigrants on the border with my Minutemen buddies) so I cannot help but see the blatant hypocrisy. I have never so much as read one criticism or suggestion that perhaps a huge influx of Catholics into this country is the last thing we need. Of course all Alternet sees are more potential Democratic Party adherents so in that case all is forgiven. We all understand the economic and humanitarian issues. We all know that immigrants are looking for a better life and performing necessary jobs but let's not forget what baggage many bring with them. Bent on criticizing Christians, Alternet ignores the fact that most people entering the US are bringing with them a brand of Catholicism that makes the homegrown variety look tame.
All you pro-choicers get ready to say farewell to safe, legal abortions. Think this current administration is over the top - wait until more hardcore old-world Catholics join the evangelical right in a crusade to stamp out any hopes of gay marriage. Let's say goodbye to steady reproduction rates and hello to 5 kids per family. Think of all those good Christian and Mormon families with 5 and 6 kids; now magine more of the same. Think more superstition, intolerance of gays/lesbians and women's rights and less compassion despite the intended teachings of Jesus. I actually live in a Latin American country where abortion is 100% illegal even in many cases where it is necessary to save a woman's life. It is not illegal to grab a woman's ass or breasts on the street and "GOD commands men and women to have many children". Before you all label me a Latino-hating bigot consider the hateful/"stereotypical" things many of you along with Alternet have written regarding Christians or Israelis - that should be enough to silence most.
Intent on highlighting the evils of the Christian right I also noticed that Alternet didn't mention the hatred issuing from Australia and England over the last couple of days. Australia's leading Imam blamed women for their own rapes - comparing them to pieces of meat left out on the street for hapless men to stumble on and rape going on to say that if they were in their homes and wearing appropriate Muslim attire like good little theists then those poor men would not be tempted to ravage them like the pieces of meat they are. Similarly, Hypocrisy.org missed the story in England where one leading Imam stated that death was a fitting punishment for gay men. We know Falternet feels that Islam gets a bad rap as it is but Christians and Jews alone can be targeted all the live long day while important stories like these are dismissed because Alternet is 100% PC 100% of the time? Of course I expect the same claptrap about "radical Muslims only hate us because of the war" except these particular statements from Australia and England had nothing to do with war. How about a little criticism where it's due? ALL RELIGIOUS NUTS NOT JUST OUR HOMEGROWN VARIETY!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Alternet & Religion - Just Can't Get Enough . . .
Posted by: edith
» Majority of recent immigrants are Pentecostals???
Posted by: JCR
» Yup
Posted by: edith
» RE: Yup
Posted by: JCR
» RE: Yup
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Yup
Posted by: JCR
» RE: Yup
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Yup
Posted by: davewuxi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwa on Oct 28, 2006 11:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
10/27/06 "CNI" — -- Christian Zionism, a belief that paradise for Christians can only be achieved once Jews are in control of the Holy Land, is gathering strength in the United States and forging alliances that are giving increasingly weird shape to American policy toward the Middle East. The nature of the movement and its detrimental impact on policy was the subject of the 22nd Capitol Hill public hearing presented by the Council for the National Interest yesterday.
A new Zogby International poll commissioned by the CNI Foundation shows that 31 percent of those surveyed in the national poll strongly believe or somewhat believe in the ideas behind Christian Zionism, defined as “the belief that Jews must have all of the promised land, including all of Jerusalem, to facilitate the second coming of the messiah.” Other polls bear similar messages, that 53% of Americans believe that Israel was given by God to the Jews (Pew), and that 59% of the American public believes the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelations will come true (CNN/Time.)
The international implications of such beliefs are profound, as an increasing number of Americans believe that God sets foreign policy goals. Rev. Robert O. Smith, Lutheran pastor at the University of Chicago, one of the speakers at the hearing, discussed the development of this belief that dates to the 19th century and how it has received a powerful new impetus with the founding this year of a new group of the Christian right called Christians United for Israel (CUFI). And yet while it works closely with Jewish Zionist organizations in the US, including the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, to promote the continued occupation of Palestine by the Israel (land God has given the Jews), it works just as effectively in dehumanizing the original inhabitants of the Holy Land, both Muslims and Christians.
Another speaker, Rammy Haija, who teaches at Radford University, drew attention to the necessity in the Christian Zionist dogma for the Israelis to retain control not only of the whole of the occupied territory but also all of Jerusalem. Christian Zionists have pushed the militarist policies of both Israel and the U.S. in an effort to secure the Holy Land in preparation for the coming of the “promised land.” As part of this strategy, the U.S. occupation of Iraq is deemed absolutely necessary.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Sounds Like God's A Nerd!
Posted by: edith
» RE: Sounds Like God's A Nerd!
Posted by: rwa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bookwoman on Oct 28, 2006 12:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been asked, by the head of his church, not to involve U.S. troops in this war, Bush decided that he needed a friendly clergyman to back him up. He visited Retired Presiding Bishop John Allin who immediately told him that attacking the Iraqis occupying Kuwait was a great idea. With this approval of a former Bishop in hand, Bush '41' initiated Desert Storm.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JSquercia on Oct 28, 2006 12:46 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I seem to remember PRIDE being one of the seven Deadly sins .
Perhaps the father should reread that verse that says a Bad Tree can NOT bear GOOD Fruit . If ever there was a bad tree this gang in the whitehouse qualifies . Hell they are a forrest of bad trees
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eyeman on Oct 28, 2006 1:31 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Yanks in their armoured parade
Chanting their ballads of joy
As they gallop across the big world
Praising America's God.
The gutters are clogged with the dead
The ones who couldn't join in
The others refusing to sing
The ones who are losing their voice
The ones who've forgotten the tune.
The riders have whips which cut.
Your head rolls onto the sand
Your head is a pool in the dirt
Your head is a stain in the dust
Your eyes have gone out and your nose
Sniffs only the pong of the dead
And all the dead air is alive
With the smell of America's God.
Nobel Prize Poet Harold Pinter January 2003
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fatherbernie on Oct 28, 2006 1:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thankfully Neuhaus and Novak and the USCCB represent politics and not theology. The Catholic Church officially teaches and has done so since Vatican II, the near impossibility of just war let alone the convoluted and unchristian mind game called “the just war theory.” If one follows the teachings of Jesus then just war is sinful poppycock at best and demonic evil at worst.
What is missing here is the idea that Rome runs this American Catholic Church. The church here is as fundamentally right as Falwell and Robertson (and lets not forget either self righteous Graham in the equation either.) John Paul II called the Iraq debacle morally wrong, not a bad idea mind you, but morally wrong. As head of the church, in a statement on faith and morals, he should have been listened to , even if said position was not ex cathreda e.g. from the seat of authority as it were. Unfortunately we are dealing with the complicit USCCB who wear American flag underwear perhaps of many different styles. Like the House or Senate or Court or Jeff Gannon's White House, raging pedophiles may exist in this assembly as they reflect the population and not the religion. Prelates like to pass that buck up to Rome but sadly the buck stops here ...... HERE.
As an Old Catholic priest, I often find an easy target for my criticisms in Rome but I must be careful about generalities. The conservative American Catholic desperately wants an “American Church” so he or she can bathe in the narrowness of American thought with comfort. I live near Philadelphia and I will tell you that the meat packers, the large farms, the mushroom growers, the landscaper, and the working middle class (who is cleaning house?) have beckoned and encouraged our neighbors south of the border with great lust. If you build it (the system that exploits them) they will come. JCR has no eyes to see and no ears to hear and throws out the red herring of “the Catholic Invasion”, sorry bigot, that is too transparent. No one, let me say again no one in the Bush administration will send back one Mexican laborer, they are for exploitation folks.
The saddest thing is that neoconism crosses religious lines and is probably acquired when we are vaccinated. Sadder too this belief that God's covenant with the Jews, Baptism or being Born Again is our salvation. Jesus said I have others who are not of this fold. My Islamic, Buddhist or animist brothers and sisters, God's undying eternal love awaits you for following the law that is written on each of your hearts. “Christian” America ... what shall we do? God is love and those who abide in love abide in God and God in them. I John 4:16
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Oct 28, 2006 2:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't the Rev. Falwell and the rest of those clowns state that moral relativism was the plague of our time? Didn't the Pope come out against moral relativism? Interesting that moral relativism is appropriate for the 12th century but not today.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Moral Relativism
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eyeman on Oct 28, 2006 2:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: psyopswatcher on Oct 28, 2006 2:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Mother Theresa kind... not the rape, pillage, and bomb kind.
If they came for his traipsings, what kind of fight would he put up?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Shawny on Oct 28, 2006 2:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And here's the steeple
Jesus, save me
From your people.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Oct 28, 2006 3:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: KILL em all and>>>>
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Always Quick With An Inappropriate and Irrelevant Comment
Posted by: Douglas
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 28, 2006 6:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: slydad on Oct 28, 2006 9:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» You mean oil?
Posted by: HeroesAll
» had to "take him down"
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: You people are morons!
Posted by: AdamG
» See what I mean?
Posted by: slydad
» RE: See what I mean?
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: See what I mean?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Slydad, wake up, buddy!
Posted by: Envi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WyrdSister on Oct 29, 2006 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wouldnt put it past W to declare Martial Law. He has already done so much damage to our country. We are already in a fascist regime.
WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM
1.Exuberant nationalism
2. Enemies Identified
3. Rights Disappear
4. Secrecy Demanded
5. Military Glorified
6. Corporations Shielded
7. Corruption Unchecked
8. Media Controlled
9. Rampant Sexism
10. Intellectual Bullying
11. Militarized Police
12. Elections Stolen
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: evidence
Posted by: WyrdSister
» Thanks, WyrdSister
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: evidence
Posted by: edith
» Thank you
Posted by: slydad
» Neo-Fascism
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Fascism under your definition
Posted by: slydad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Oct 29, 2006 9:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people don't have any ideals higher than money, you can always tell this is so from the devotion to nationalism instead of Jesus.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: doctorsquared on Oct 29, 2006 9:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Oct 29, 2006 11:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Civil War reintegrated the South, then marginalized its political economy which was still based on large scale agro-export agriculture as well as some extractive and light manufacturing industries. The north, after the early collapse of progressive reconstruction, was willing to tolerate labor repressive systems and undemocratic political oppression. The systems even found a certain compatibility with poor Yeoman farmers and lumpen "white trash" element being recruited to repress northern labor struggles as the North was beginning to industrialize. Between 1880 and 1938 when the Wagner Act was passed legalizing collective bargaining, over 700 American workers were killed in violent labor struggles. In some states at this time, Pinkertons and private company armed security outnumbered local police and state militia. This exposes the real purpose of armed force in US history. In many areas dispossessed poor whites joined the KKK and various Rifle clubs and acted as scabs and repressed and terrorized the local blacks. The south's continued limited and undemocratic role in US historic development was blanketed with an overlay of patrimonial traditionalism and, of course, a fierce fundamentalist religiosity.
These are the historic roots of southern political backwardness and hostility to modern concepts of democracy, civil liberties, and equality. It is found in the North's abandonment of the South's needed post-civil war project of democratization, reform, and rehabilitation in the 1860s and 1870s in favor of conveniently exploiting residual undemocratic southern tendencies to the benefit of northern elite socio-economic and political interests.
I fear the very same is being done by US imperialism in war-torn Iraq today.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» War never changes.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: War never changes.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: War never changes.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: War never changes.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 29, 2006 3:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Loving our enemies dares to modify the simplistic, “Survival is the first law of nature.” Supporters for the latter outnumber those of the former by, what would you guess, a gazillion to one? A Mike Dukakis could be dissembled, so badly that it shook his presidential campaign, by the question, “What would you do if your family were attacked.”
Again, like the rest of us, I assume that Neuhaus only knew what he was being told. As I F Stone told us, “All governments lie.” But did he dare add, “…all the time,” as would be necessary in our current circumstance?
Yes, Linker’s insider’s view adds impact to his cogency. I could do without the gossip. But I suppose that’s what sells books these days.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Salvapath on Oct 30, 2006 11:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the present, we know better than nobody else about the legacy from the murky beginnings of that false church; mass murder, corruption, depravation, politics, intrigue, etc....
A serious Christian cannot believe, accept or even think that the Roman Church has anything to do with Jesus Christ's doctrine....
politics, mafia, conspiracy, wars; yes!! that's the Roman church real doctrine....
We most feel sorry for the people of real Christian faith in the Catholic church, but the truth is the truth; they should get out of that hellish kingdom ruled by the Vatican; what else are they waiting to see to make them take that decision? Get out from Babilon!!!!! run for your souls if you care about them!!!....
There is not a worst blind than the one that doesn't want to see; repent!!! and follow Jesus Christ, not politicians, Popes, false leader or teachers..............
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» So then, what is the "real" church?
Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: So then, what is the "real" church?
Posted by: cpatton
» RE: So then, what is the "real" church?
Posted by: doctorsquared
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 30, 2006 5:46 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cpatton on Oct 31, 2006 8:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The submitted disciple of Jesus does not take sides in military conflict but considers the salvation of all as a representative from a heavenly kingdom that has overcome evil with good. The sins of nation states and societies will face the eternal Judge one day, but God Himself will intervene to establish justice and peace against the armed forces of humanity. The true disciple does not use force of arms to "convince" unbelievers or to try to "correct" the sins of society.
Those justifying wars by Christian theology must devote books to explaining away the simple statements of Scripture like "love your enemy." For more info see the following article:
Citizenship of a Higher Order, Biblical Reasons for Rejecting Military Service and War, by Christopher J. Patton. Most Christians do not properly differentiate between their duties as citizens of heaven from those as citizens of some earthly political state. Possessing incomplete belief systems, they do not have the spiritual objectivity necessary to understand the world we live in and to make sound decisions of faith. Specifically, an appropriate course of action for a nation state of this world may present totally inappropriate behavior choices for a follower of Jesus Christ.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Oct 31, 2006 4:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if we can avoid being hit by it.....And just who is behind the wheel, anyway?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Nov 2, 2006 5:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: novseis on Nov 2, 2006 9:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
On Anniversary of Iraq Invasion, Time to Rethink Anti-War Activism
The Timing Is Ripe for Obama to Make Demands on Israel to Settle for Peace
Juarez Prison Celebrates International Women's Day With Lurid "Captive Beauty" Pageant




