COMMENTS: 59
Frank Rich Reviews the Bush Follies
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According to Rich, the administration's highest priority was not to eliminate Al Qaeda, but to consolidate its own power, and this aim called for a propaganda presidency in which reality was consistently replaced by "truthiness."
Rich, who became a New York Times op-ed columnist in 1994 after serving for 13 years as the newspaper's chief drama critic, talked to Terrence McNally.
Terrence McNally: Paul Krugman, fellow New York Times op-ed writer, joined the Times as a mild mannered Princeton economist. In fact, he'd been attacked by the left for being a cheerleader for globalization. Then, on the job, he morphed into a fiery critic of the Bush administration. Now here you are, for years an entertainment writer ...
Frank Rich: There's something about the Bush administration that brings out the best or worst in everyone I guess.
McNally: Tell us a bit about that evolution.
Rich: I've had a very strange career. I grew up in Washington, D.C., in a family that was not involved with politics, which is sort of like growing up in Beverly Hills in a family that's got nothing to do with show business. I was always captivated by politics, but I was also stage-struck as a kid and interested in theater and culture. I've always written about both, though I did have a long period when I was a drama critic at the Times. But even then I was writing a bit about politics and culture for the New Republic and Esquire and elsewhere.
I think that in the case of Paul, he's a numbers guy who really understands economics, and he was appalled -- and rightly so -- in the earliest days of the Bush administration when he saw their fuzzy math. The numbers just didn't add up, and I think it offended his professionalism as an economist. I don't think there was anything particularly ideological about it.
In my case, it wasn't the numbers that caught my eye, but the stagecraft. Why are they always putting on a show? Why does everything have a backdrop with Orwellian words telling you what to think? What are they hiding? What is this "Wizard of Oz"-like theater they've set up?
After all the time I spent thinking about the theater, including Washington theater, if I know nothing else, I know empty spectacle when I see it. Not to make light of something that's been tragic for many Americans and the world, but their whole spectacle is like a big empty Andrew Lloyd Webber contraption -- chandeliers rising and falling, people landing in planes on aircraft carriers and celebrating victory -- and it's empty inside.
McNally: I imagine you've wished you could have the same power as a critic of the administration that you were said to have as a critic of Broadway --
Rich: Unfortunately this is not a show that could be closed out of town. It's had quite a run.
McNally: Why did you write this book? Is it because you began to see that the primary narrative of this administration was the fact that they were putting out a "story"?
Rich: That's exactly right. I started talking about this book with my editor at Penguin a year and a half ago, maybe even longer. Because of my strong belief in wanting to tell this as a narrative as opposed to just throwing together collected columns, I felt it had to have a third act curtain. I'm such a creature of the theater and of narrative, that I felt I couldn't sit down and start writing this book unless I knew, in at least some figurative sense, when it was ending.
One place to look for an ending was in the 2004 election. I made an informal agreement with my editor that if Kerry won, well that's the end of the story, but, as we know, that did not happen.
I finally decided to write the book when I realized that Katrina was the third act curtain. That disaster and the Bush administration's response to it stripped bare everything that had been true about the administration all along. All in one place, happening 24/7, in real time, on television with all the network anchors watching: the use of spin, the claiming of triumphs and successes that hadn't happened, the slowness to react to a city under siege, looting -- just as in Baghdad after the invasion of Iraq -- everything playing out in fast motion.
I rolled the dice and said, this is the end of my book, he can't come back from it. That's when I started to write.
McNally: You felt Katrina, tragic as it was, might be the end of this story. You also wrote an article in which you said -- I'm going to misquote you -- "The Iraq war is over, someone tell the president." Is that close?
Rich: Yes, I actually wrote that quite some time ago.
McNally: Is it possible that events are going to make you as wrong as the administration was when they claimed "Mission Accomplished?"
Rich: I'm not declaring something quite as definitive as they did. There are many things that can scramble the situation in Iraq and at home, events that have nothing to do with politicians, such as, God forbid, another domestic terrorism attack -- but I have felt for some time that with the Iraq war, all we're talking about is the negotiation of how we draw down.
Sadly, the war is going to go on for a very long time, but American engagement at this level is -- as the vice president said of the insurgency over a year ago -- in its last throes. There's almost uniform agreement everywhere, except in the White House, that we have to start figuring out the terms under which we're going to turn this over to the Iraqis. We're not going to get out all at once, and no one really is advocating that in either political party in Washington.
Now we have conservative Republicans, including columnists like George Will saying it's untenable, or Max Boot, a conservative writer for the Los Angeles Times, likening the war to Vietnam and saying either we've got to throw in a bunch more troops or cut back to 50,000. I don't think we have the "more troops" to put in there, so we're just really talking about the terms of what is going to be some kind of slow fade.
McNally: So you meant not the actual end, but the tipping point?
Rich: The tipping point to American involvement. And when I said, "Tell it to the president," no kidding, because this is a guy who keeps saying, "We planned for victory, we will stay the course" -- and there's no plan. Other people are going to make the plan for him and, depending on what happens in the election this November, those plans may proceed quite quickly ... If one of the houses changes hands, and this guy is a lame duck ...
McNally: I agree. If even one house shifts, the conversation will shift. Suddenly the media may not feel the need to kiss up as much in exchange for access.
Rich: I think we've already seen that shift. One point I make in my book is that for the longest time, you had to watch Jon Stewart to see the administration get caught in a lie. Dick Cheney would go on a network talk show and say, "I never said that there was a pretty well confirmed connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein," and Jon Stewart would show you the "Meet the Press" clip where he said it.
Starting with Katrina, the media had to get with the program of actually being news people again. Whether it be the infamous Michael Brown, or, for that matter, Michael Chertoff saying, "What's going on in the Superdome, we've heard nothing about that," while you can see in split screen exactly what's going on. They've finally brought on themselves a media that's not as compliant as it was in the months and even years after 9/11.
McNally: In reading your detailed description of the almost daily development and execution of their propaganda, I found myself remembering events that had shocked or infuriated me when they happened, but that I'd almost forgotten since. For instance, Enron or Abramoff, which at the time seemed so huge and so tied to them. Somehow I feel so much gets swamped by our ridiculous focus on Iraq.
Rich: I was trying to write a very lean, almost screenplay-like narrative of the past four or five years, told almost entirely through their PR stunts and presentations.
I tell you how they presented something, and then show you what was behind the curtain that renders it false. For instance, the first half of the book ends with the official war in Iraq, the 43 days between the day we invaded Iraq and the day that Bush went on the aircraft carrier outside of San Diego and said the major combat operations had ended -- "Mission Accomplished."
I realized that this war -- despite the fact that there were reporters embedded and we were getting all this coverage -- was essentially a series of discrete shows put on for the American public. Many were fairly meaningless in terms of the actual war, but all served the purpose of keeping casualties -- our own and Iraqi civilians -- off screen.
If you look back on it, what happened in those 43 days?
First we had shock and awe, this strange beginning, which was very telegenic and which people were riveted to on television. As someone later said, we were watching munitions and bombs going off in a city of six million people, yet we had no sense of what they were hitting or if anyone was being killed. It was just like watching a Lumiere display.
Then we started to take some casualties, there was a little bit of nay saying about the conduct of the invasion, and suddenly we had this drama about the rescue of Jessica Lynch, which we would later find out was at variance with the facts as Jessica Lynch herself knew them -- though she was out of it at the time.
McNally: -- which meant she was perfectly cast. She couldn't contradict the story.
Rich: Exactly. They manufactured this Rambo-like scenario and a dramatic rescue. Now she was a brave young woman who suffered a grievous injury and was captured, but the sort of Audie Murphy drama created by the Pentagon had nothing to do with reality.
Next came the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue, one of many such statues in Baghdad. As some people pointed out at the time, it was a contrived event done with the help of the Americans. Television commentators, following the lead of Rumsfeld and others, kept referring to it as a moment in history tantamount to the tearing down of the Berlin Wall, but the Berliners tore down their wall, the Americans didn't. This was a completely different and somewhat staged event.
Then finally we get to "Mission Accomplished," like a big MGM musical first act finale, celebrating the end of combat operations. But sadly, as we well know, they weren't ending.
So that's sort of the pattern of the whole book: I've looked at everything as they presented it, and then tried to puncture the balloons and, where appropriate, show what was actually inside.
McNally: In fact, quite a long section of the book offers a timeline.
Rich: During the early days of the Valerie Plame/Joseph Wilson leak case, I began to notice reporting about the evidence of WMD's that had been presented to the public in the run up to the war -- through the press, including somewhat notoriously through the New York Times. We started to learn for the first time that there was a discrepancy between what they had been saying and what they actually knew, and when they knew it.
As an aid to myself, almost like Cliff's notes, I started keeping a calendar. I'd just say, "They said on x-date, January 2003, that Saddam had uranium from Africa ..." Then I would find out that Joe Wilson or someone else had reported earlier that it wasn't true. I started noting these discrepancies, and it became almost like a game. That appendix is up to 80 pages now.
It's rather eye opening -- two columns side by side: their own words on one side, on the other published information through which we later learned that they were telling us things they knew to be false.
McNally: Can you speak just a bit about the role of the New York Times and Judith Miller in pushing the administration's story?
Rich: I talk about Judy Miller in the book. Essentially, for whatever reasons, Judy ran articles that the Times published in the run-up to the war that were overly credulous about WMD claims. Intentionally or not, these often backed up the scenario the administration was cooking up to take us into war against the "grave threat" presented by Saddam Hussein.
McNally: One could almost construct another visual aid -- two columns side by side, the administration's talking points and Judith Miller's articles.
Rich: Indeed. In the timeline I have some excerpts from Miller's activities when they relate to the main narrative. She was not alone in doing this, however. Many others did too.
There were also good reporters at the New York Times, the Washington Post and elsewhere, particularly at the Knight-Ridder chain, that did have accurate stories, questioning the administration line. But those stories were often buried. It was a huge failure of the media in which, of course, the Times was complicit.
This is, however, a separate issue from her involvement with the Plame case, which is much more complicated. I'm not so sure that she did anything wrong in that regard, and, in fact, she went to jail for a worthy principle.
McNally: You've put this book out a couple of months ahead of the November elections. It reminds people, "In case you've gotten foggy about it, here's just how much they were lying, here's just how much they were manipulating you." Are you hopeful at this moment that voters will hold them accountable?
You said at the top that you feel they can't get their credibility back. For me, watching Bush, Rove, and the GOP is almost like watching Jason or Chucky from the slasher movies. They keep coming back no matter what you do to them. I call them "electoral savants," phenomenally good at demonizing their enemies and winning elections, but with no inclination or competence for governing. Up until November 8th I will be afraid that they're going to pull this off again.
Rich: Look, anything can happen. It's foolhardy to predict an election like this, which is, after all, hundreds of individual local elections, where most people are not voting with some big national picture in mind. I don't know what's going to happen. I guess anything's possible, That said, 60 percent of the country is against the war the government's fighting in Iraq, and 70 percent feels that the country is on the wrong track.
McNally: That's an amazing number.
Rich: People are discontented for a lot of reasons. Iraq is very high on the list, but so are certain economic issues, particularly the inequality of gain for the middle class, in terms of tax cuts and everything else. I think these things eventually do have consequences.
I believe that the Bush propaganda machine -- and this as a big point in my book -- has been enabled by two things. One is the media environment, whether it be the credulousness of newspapers like the Times in the run up to the war, the obsequiousness on the part of a lot of television news, which is still the main way that most Americans get their news, or the press's self-inflicted errors, like ours, like CBS's. All of that has helped them.
But so has a not very interesting or brave Democratic party with a rather lousy bunch of leaders, including potential presidents. One reason I feel the tide is changing -- I felt this even before the 2004 election and before I started to write this book -- is that Kerry was an incredibly ineffectual candidate. He was clumsy, and his views about the war were incoherent. Even so, he lost by only three and a half million votes against a war president. I think that if the Democratic party had had its act together, they could have probably done better than they did in 2000, when, as we know, they won the popular vote.
It didn't happen largely because you can't fight something with nothing. The Democrats have to start fighting something with something. That doesn't mean doctrinaire positions, but it means leadership and sticking their necks out there and taking stands, and I think we're finally beginning to see some of that.
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Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 4, 2006 12:42 AM
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» RE: dichotomy sickkofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: dichotomy sickkofsleaze
Posted by: willymack
» March for change on October 5th, TOMORROW
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: dichotomy/ TIMELINE AVAILABLE AT www.frankrich.com
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
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Posted by: edith on Oct 4, 2006 2:49 AM
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The Iraq expedition provides a landmark around which a third party America First movement may be rebuilt. Let's harken back to Washington's Farewell Address. No entangling alliances. Trade with all on a fair basis; for those who would cheat us, let us turn our backs.
Dismantle the national security/intelligence state built to ridiculous proportions by Bush, Clinton, Reagan and others.
Million will be unemployed and social unrest will occur. But both parties should feel the wrath of the impovershed public whose "wealth" is based on printing money to finance protection for the interests of international finance.
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» RE: Frank's History is Golden But his Solution is Plastic..Fooleygate Fallout
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» These ARE the Good Old Days
Posted by: druidlaw
» RE: These ARE the Good Old Days
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 4, 2006 3:48 AM
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Everyone should read Frank Rich, whether in hardcover or every sunday in the New York Times. He's got this whole, ugly story in the palm of his hand. I believe he should also publish a collection of his columns from the last four years. I know he is reluctant to do this, thinking it's a form of cheating, to "write" something that has already been published; But not everybody had a chance to read those columns when they were originally printed. They are, quite simply, journalistic gems.
Read Woodward and it will leave you frustrated and exasperated. Frank Rich will leave you in a blind rage.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
Posted by: willymack
» RE: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: political_outcast on Oct 4, 2006 4:10 AM
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So, now you know why the American Left likes to he keep the political debate focused on thinks like religion, abortion, marriage, partisan politics, race, gender, foreign policy and sexuality. Because that is how they control the direction of American politics. Both the mass media and fakeLeft political media like Alternet, DU, Huffpost, etc are under the control of the rich and the corporations.
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» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: surfreality
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: dondar
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: oneyedjack
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: surfreality
» Really?
Posted by: Capybara
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: babs
» RE: So what's new about Iraq and Bush?..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Thanks, Ladybug
Posted by: HughEScott
» RE: So what's new about Iraq and Bush?..idea sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» very consistent
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: Captainmagic on Oct 4, 2006 5:00 AM
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Regards Captain
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» RE: What would you say.........
Posted by: owleyes
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Posted by: mat38 on Oct 4, 2006 5:10 AM
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Yeah, no doubt in most of his nutjob believers the worst regins supreme. Bush is the worst example of what it means to be an American and all of his followers and apologists should get shipped out to sea on a barge and dumped like garbage in order to rid ourselves of the future, oh, let's say, the futre Dick Cheney from growing into a role of a worst version of a Bushie
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Posted by: fallujah on Oct 4, 2006 6:06 AM
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Posted by: dondar on Oct 4, 2006 6:10 AM
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whether it's clinton giving corporate handouts or bush lying about giving corporate hangouts, the people suffer, to 80 percent of the world population the system is a disaster.
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» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: heech
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: Riisho
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: dondar
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: Riisho
» Structuralism is the new Fatalism
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: enakcma
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Posted by: Chappie on Oct 4, 2006 6:32 AM
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Congress went running home, having done nothing to correct the situation. "Oh, well, maybe for the NEXT election," they said.
Didn't we have a bad King George back in the 1700's? Hmm - can't quite remember what happened then....
Chappie
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» RE: Chappie
Posted by: heech
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Posted by: Dadster3 on Oct 4, 2006 6:34 AM
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The 30-something% that needs to get the message won't read it because they don't want to know.
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» RE: Yeah, yeah, but.....
Posted by: mrcentrist
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Posted by: allUneedislove on Oct 4, 2006 6:55 AM
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» you only wish Dennis the Menace were a "leader".
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: cognitorex on Oct 4, 2006 8:06 AM
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Now we are in a position where the opposition in Iraq has grown in manpower, armament and organizational capabilities. What we could have accomplished with 140,000 troops and, god forbid a plan in place, is long gone. We've given the opposition time to organize and arm which leads to the conclusion that our troops are more in harms’ way for each passing day.
To have America reach the position where open, honest and accountable planning can take place the electorate absolutely must secure enough Congressional control in November to pry the hitherto inept GOP leadership away from sole planning authority. This should free up the military to more freely disclose what needs to be done operationally and what results are most likely. We need to let the Generals present and implement America’s best plan.
The GOP "plan" that favors issuing political statements over protecting American soldiers needs to end. America does not need more self serving inflammatory GOP labels. We need honest planning and a competent leadership.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 4, 2006 8:21 AM
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There is always the terrible possibility that it is all due to vanity and incompetence, and with these clowns that is certainly a contributing factor.
Then there is the oil - the word that is never associated with Iraq in the corporate media. The Saudis, the Iraqis, the Iranians - all are critical to keeping the world supplied with oil. What Rumsfeld, Kissenger and Bush all know is that who controls the oil controls the world. Petroleum is the lifeblood of empire in the modern age, but for some reason this simple factoid is ignored.
The problem must be that the US public wouldn't support invasion and occupation of a foreign country in order to control global oil supplies. Thus, the propaganda machine kicks into gear and claims that the invasion is to support democracy, defend the 'homeland' (I bet they first considered going with 'fatherland'), and defeat evil.
Even the best propaganda needs a nugget of truth to work with - you can't just say "we are in danger" but if you have the smoking ruins of the WTC to point to, than it is very believable. The real question is who is dangerous and why has this situation arisen? The history of US and Saudi support of Islamic fundamentalism also hasn't been told in the US media (the CIA was a prime initial funder of both the Muslim Brotherhood and the Taliban - at the time, they were our 'anti-communist allies').
The biological, chemical and nuclear weapons 'story' is a good example: Saddam had no such supplies and multiple sources agreed on this. However, the media and the Rendon Group and Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Cheney and Bush worked as a unit to sell this" smoking mushroom clouds, mobile biowarfare labs and anthrax-filled drone, stockpiles of chemical weapons - all blatant deliberate lies!
This is also why actually catching Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan would have been a disaster for Operation Iraqi Liberation; that's also why Bush switched the emphasis from 9/11 as a criminal act to 9/11 as an act of war; that's why a huge effort was made to associate Saddam with 9/11 and the anthrax attacks; and that's why there is no mention of the Saudi royal role in financing OBL and Al Queda (the 28 pages stricken from the 911 Commission report were on the Saudis).
The bottom line for Bush is the oil - as long as his cronies can control the oil flow out of Iraq, he will think he's been successful. The people of Iraq? They are just an inconvenient detail. When Rumsfeld says "the people of Iraq have a choice", what he means is that either the killing and the torture will continue, or the country will accept its new colonial status and give up its oil without a fight.
Inside Iraq, the 'story' is one of covert and overt operations aimed at dividing the country up into separate armed camps - if they are busy killing each other, the theory goes, we'll have less trouble controlling the oil.
Frank Rich has written a good book on the propaganda story, and that's great. However, we need to keep in mind that ending the occupation and bringing home US troops means giving control of the oilfields back to the Iraqis; if you pull out the troops than Exxon, Chevron, Halliburton and Bechtel will also have to pull out. This corporate nexus of wealth and power controls what Bush does; when Bush says 'defeat' he means losing control of Iraqi oilfields; that's the noble goal that US soldiers and Iraqi civilians are dying for.
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» fred c dobbs sez:
Posted by: gltirebiter
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Posted by: Guy on Oct 4, 2006 8:42 AM
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What we need is to move forward and try to figure out how to get this stuff into the mainstream so Joe Six-pack and Wanda Wine-cooler can understand it, rather than continue preaching to the choir.
Now turn to page 47 in your hymnals....
Guy
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» So I went to the Supermarket in the Suburbs and I saw............
Posted by: edith
» RE: What's New?
Posted by: mtnman
» RE: What's New?
Posted by: Guy
» RE: Day of Massive Resistance Against Bush Regime Oct. 5, 2006
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 4, 2006 10:56 AM
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1) The fact that the 2000 and 2004 elections were clearly stolen. Gore won Florida by 150,000 and Kerry won by 4.5% nationally and won Ohio by 8.8%.
2) The truth of 9/11. Perhaps when Rich writes "...whatever else 9/11 was..." he is opening the NYT's door for a truly independent look at the overwhelming factual evidence of Bush regime complicity/facilitation of the international crime formally know as 9/11.
...one would think they would be mentioned in the article/interview.
Or, is Alternet gatekeeping once again.
Please do look behind the curtain:
was the 2004 presidential election stolen? by Steven F. Freeman & Joel Bleifuss
The Sorrows of Empire by Chalmers Johnson
The New American Militarism by Andrew J. Bacevich
The New Pearl Harbor by David Ray Griffin
The Terror Timeline by Paul Thompson
Towers of Deception by Barrie Zwicker
The War On Truth by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed
The Politics of Heroin by Alfred W. McCoy
Crossing the Rubicon by Michael C. Ruppert
From The Wilderness
Scholars For 9/11 Truth
911Truth.org
Please come march for change on October 5th, tomorrow.
Go to www.worldcantwait.net for details.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Two key details missing....
Posted by: babs
» Re: Shotgun approach
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: Hal on Oct 4, 2006 1:55 PM
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Rich: I think we've already seen that shift…you had to watch Jon Stewart to see the administration get caught in a lie.”
This is by far the most telling exchange in the interview. One MSM limited hangout hack feigning to another about how “suddenly the media may not feel the need to kiss up”.
Gee, it’s as if McNally and Rich both ID the MSM as one sellout brothel controlled by the same criminal org (a brothel that neither of them admits is home). And of course, the clearly stated connection is to the same corporate crime mob that rules DC.
But that notion pegs a U.S. democratic republic as mere delusion sucked up by Kool-Aid patsies and self-serve traitors across the board.
From 911 cover-up to its insane war on a noun (“war on terror”) at public cost for private greed nothing could be closer to the mark.
Public truth stings but it’s only spoken in passing and in twisted whispers over book deals.
Limited hangout is all about denial at the Vampire State.
"THE REAL TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, AS YOU AND I KNOW, THAT A FINANCIAL ELEMENT IN THE LARGER CENTERS HAS OWNED THE GOVERNMENT EVER SINCE THE DAYS OF ANDREW JACKSON.”
PRESIDENT FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT (describing oligarch rule in a letter to handler “Colonel” Edward M. House, confidence man for the cartel and founder of the Council on Foreign Relations. House also handled President Wilson and the creation of a private “Federal Reserve” Corporation and its IRS in 1913. FDR speaks of monopolists at cartel centers of New York & London that own the U.S. Government. November 21st, l933)
“THE RULING CLASS HAS THE SCHOOLS AND PRESS UNDER ITS THUMB. THIS ENABLES IT TO SWAY THE EMOTIONS OF THE MASSES.”
DOCTOR ALBERT EINSTEIN (Nobel Laureate and refugee from Nazi fascism. 1879-1955)
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Posted by: DoctorAndy on Oct 4, 2006 3:21 PM
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» RE: protest tactics
Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: protest tactics.......from little things
Posted by: Captainmagic
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Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 4, 2006 12:42 AM
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» RE: dichotomy sickkofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: dichotomy sickkofsleaze
Posted by: willymack
» March for change on October 5th, TOMORROW
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: dichotomy/ TIMELINE AVAILABLE AT www.frankrich.com
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
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Posted by: edith on Oct 4, 2006 2:49 AM
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The Iraq expedition provides a landmark around which a third party America First movement may be rebuilt. Let's harken back to Washington's Farewell Address. No entangling alliances. Trade with all on a fair basis; for those who would cheat us, let us turn our backs.
Dismantle the national security/intelligence state built to ridiculous proportions by Bush, Clinton, Reagan and others.
Million will be unemployed and social unrest will occur. But both parties should feel the wrath of the impovershed public whose "wealth" is based on printing money to finance protection for the interests of international finance.
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» RE: Frank's History is Golden But his Solution is Plastic..Fooleygate Fallout
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» These ARE the Good Old Days
Posted by: druidlaw
» RE: These ARE the Good Old Days
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 4, 2006 3:48 AM
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Everyone should read Frank Rich, whether in hardcover or every sunday in the New York Times. He's got this whole, ugly story in the palm of his hand. I believe he should also publish a collection of his columns from the last four years. I know he is reluctant to do this, thinking it's a form of cheating, to "write" something that has already been published; But not everybody had a chance to read those columns when they were originally printed. They are, quite simply, journalistic gems.
Read Woodward and it will leave you frustrated and exasperated. Frank Rich will leave you in a blind rage.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
Posted by: willymack
» RE: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: political_outcast on Oct 4, 2006 4:10 AM
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So, now you know why the American Left likes to he keep the political debate focused on thinks like religion, abortion, marriage, partisan politics, race, gender, foreign policy and sexuality. Because that is how they control the direction of American politics. Both the mass media and fakeLeft political media like Alternet, DU, Huffpost, etc are under the control of the rich and the corporations.
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» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: surfreality
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: dondar
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: oneyedjack
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: surfreality
» Really?
Posted by: Capybara
» RE: religion, abortion, marriage, and partisan politics. THat is what American politics is about?
Posted by: babs
» RE: So what's new about Iraq and Bush?..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Thanks, Ladybug
Posted by: HughEScott
» RE: So what's new about Iraq and Bush?..idea sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» very consistent
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: Captainmagic on Oct 4, 2006 5:00 AM
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Regards Captain
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» RE: What would you say.........
Posted by: owleyes
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Posted by: mat38 on Oct 4, 2006 5:10 AM
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Yeah, no doubt in most of his nutjob believers the worst regins supreme. Bush is the worst example of what it means to be an American and all of his followers and apologists should get shipped out to sea on a barge and dumped like garbage in order to rid ourselves of the future, oh, let's say, the futre Dick Cheney from growing into a role of a worst version of a Bushie
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Posted by: fallujah on Oct 4, 2006 6:06 AM
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Posted by: dondar on Oct 4, 2006 6:10 AM
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whether it's clinton giving corporate handouts or bush lying about giving corporate hangouts, the people suffer, to 80 percent of the world population the system is a disaster.
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» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: heech
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: Riisho
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: dondar
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: Riisho
» Structuralism is the new Fatalism
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: systems make reality, not people
Posted by: enakcma
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Posted by: Chappie on Oct 4, 2006 6:32 AM
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Congress went running home, having done nothing to correct the situation. "Oh, well, maybe for the NEXT election," they said.
Didn't we have a bad King George back in the 1700's? Hmm - can't quite remember what happened then....
Chappie
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» RE: Chappie
Posted by: heech
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Posted by: Dadster3 on Oct 4, 2006 6:34 AM
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The 30-something% that needs to get the message won't read it because they don't want to know.
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» RE: Yeah, yeah, but.....
Posted by: mrcentrist
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Posted by: allUneedislove on Oct 4, 2006 6:55 AM
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» you only wish Dennis the Menace were a "leader".
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: cognitorex on Oct 4, 2006 8:06 AM
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Now we are in a position where the opposition in Iraq has grown in manpower, armament and organizational capabilities. What we could have accomplished with 140,000 troops and, god forbid a plan in place, is long gone. We've given the opposition time to organize and arm which leads to the conclusion that our troops are more in harms’ way for each passing day.
To have America reach the position where open, honest and accountable planning can take place the electorate absolutely must secure enough Congressional control in November to pry the hitherto inept GOP leadership away from sole planning authority. This should free up the military to more freely disclose what needs to be done operationally and what results are most likely. We need to let the Generals present and implement America’s best plan.
The GOP "plan" that favors issuing political statements over protecting American soldiers needs to end. America does not need more self serving inflammatory GOP labels. We need honest planning and a competent leadership.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 4, 2006 8:21 AM
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There is always the terrible possibility that it is all due to vanity and incompetence, and with these clowns that is certainly a contributing factor.
Then there is the oil - the word that is never associated with Iraq in the corporate media. The Saudis, the Iraqis, the Iranians - all are critical to keeping the world supplied with oil. What Rumsfeld, Kissenger and Bush all know is that who controls the oil controls the world. Petroleum is the lifeblood of empire in the modern age, but for some reason this simple factoid is ignored.
The problem must be that the US public wouldn't support invasion and occupation of a foreign country in order to control global oil supplies. Thus, the propaganda machine kicks into gear and claims that the invasion is to support democracy, defend the 'homeland' (I bet they first considered going with 'fatherland'), and defeat evil.
Even the best propaganda needs a nugget of truth to work with - you can't just say "we are in danger" but if you have the smoking ruins of the WTC to point to, than it is very believable. The real question is who is dangerous and why has this situation arisen? The history of US and Saudi support of Islamic fundamentalism also hasn't been told in the US media (the CIA was a prime initial funder of both the Muslim Brotherhood and the Taliban - at the time, they were our 'anti-communist allies').
The biological, chemical and nuclear weapons 'story' is a good example: Saddam had no such supplies and multiple sources agreed on this. However, the media and the Rendon Group and Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Cheney and Bush worked as a unit to sell this" smoking mushroom clouds, mobile biowarfare labs and anthrax-filled drone, stockpiles of chemical weapons - all blatant deliberate lies!
This is also why actually catching Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan would have been a disaster for Operation Iraqi Liberation; that's also why Bush switched the emphasis from 9/11 as a criminal act to 9/11 as an act of war; that's why a huge effort was made to associate Saddam with 9/11 and the anthrax attacks; and that's why there is no mention of the Saudi royal role in financing OBL and Al Queda (the 28 pages stricken from the 911 Commission report were on the Saudis).
The bottom line for Bush is the oil - as long as his cronies can control the oil flow out of Iraq, he will think he's been successful. The people of Iraq? They are just an inconvenient detail. When Rumsfeld says "the people of Iraq have a choice", what he means is that either the killing and the torture will continue, or the country will accept its new colonial status and give up its oil without a fight.
Inside Iraq, the 'story' is one of covert and overt operations aimed at dividing the country up into separate armed camps - if they are busy killing each other, the theory goes, we'll have less trouble controlling the oil.
Frank Rich has written a good book on the propaganda story, and that's great. However, we need to keep in mind that ending the occupation and bringing home US troops means giving control of the oilfields back to the Iraqis; if you pull out the troops than Exxon, Chevron, Halliburton and Bechtel will also have to pull out. This corporate nexus of wealth and power controls what Bush does; when Bush says 'defeat' he means losing control of Iraqi oilfields; that's the noble goal that US soldiers and Iraqi civilians are dying for.
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» fred c dobbs sez:
Posted by: gltirebiter
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Posted by: Guy on Oct 4, 2006 8:42 AM
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What we need is to move forward and try to figure out how to get this stuff into the mainstream so Joe Six-pack and Wanda Wine-cooler can understand it, rather than continue preaching to the choir.
Now turn to page 47 in your hymnals....
Guy
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» So I went to the Supermarket in the Suburbs and I saw............
Posted by: edith
» RE: What's New?
Posted by: mtnman
» RE: What's New?
Posted by: Guy
» RE: Day of Massive Resistance Against Bush Regime Oct. 5, 2006
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 4, 2006 10:56 AM
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1) The fact that the 2000 and 2004 elections were clearly stolen. Gore won Florida by 150,000 and Kerry won by 4.5% nationally and won Ohio by 8.8%.
2) The truth of 9/11. Perhaps when Rich writes "...whatever else 9/11 was..." he is opening the NYT's door for a truly independent look at the overwhelming factual evidence of Bush regime complicity/facilitation of the international crime formally know as 9/11.
...one would think they would be mentioned in the article/interview.
Or, is Alternet gatekeeping once again.
Please do look behind the curtain:
was the 2004 presidential election stolen? by Steven F. Freeman & Joel Bleifuss
The Sorrows of Empire by Chalmers Johnson
The New American Militarism by Andrew J. Bacevich
The New Pearl Harbor by David Ray Griffin
The Terror Timeline by Paul Thompson
Towers of Deception by Barrie Zwicker
The War On Truth by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed
The Politics of Heroin by Alfred W. McCoy
Crossing the Rubicon by Michael C. Ruppert
From The Wilderness
Scholars For 9/11 Truth
911Truth.org
Please come march for change on October 5th, tomorrow.
Go to www.worldcantwait.net for details.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Two key details missing....
Posted by: babs
» Re: Shotgun approach
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: Hal on Oct 4, 2006 1:55 PM
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Rich: I think we've already seen that shift…you had to watch Jon Stewart to see the administration get caught in a lie.”
This is by far the most telling exchange in the interview. One MSM limited hangout hack feigning to another about how “suddenly the media may not feel the need to kiss up”.
Gee, it’s as if McNally and Rich both ID the MSM as one sellout brothel controlled by the same criminal org (a brothel that neither of them admits is home). And of course, the clearly stated connection is to the same corporate crime mob that rules DC.
But that notion pegs a U.S. democratic republic as mere delusion sucked up by Kool-Aid patsies and self-serve traitors across the board.
From 911 cover-up to its insane war on a noun (“war on terror”) at public cost for private greed nothing could be closer to the mark.
Public truth stings but it’s only spoken in passing and in twisted whispers over book deals.
Limited hangout is all about denial at the Vampire State.
"THE REAL TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, AS YOU AND I KNOW, THAT A FINANCIAL ELEMENT IN THE LARGER CENTERS HAS OWNED THE GOVERNMENT EVER SINCE THE DAYS OF ANDREW JACKSON.”
PRESIDENT FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT (describing oligarch rule in a letter to handler “Colonel” Edward M. House, confidence man for the cartel and founder of the Council on Foreign Relations. House also handled President Wilson and the creation of a private “Federal Reserve” Corporation and its IRS in 1913. FDR speaks of monopolists at cartel centers of New York & London that own the U.S. Government. November 21st, l933)
“THE RULING CLASS HAS THE SCHOOLS AND PRESS UNDER ITS THUMB. THIS ENABLES IT TO SWAY THE EMOTIONS OF THE MASSES.”
DOCTOR ALBERT EINSTEIN (Nobel Laureate and refugee from Nazi fascism. 1879-1955)
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Posted by: DoctorAndy on Oct 4, 2006 3:21 PM
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» RE: protest tactics
Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: protest tactics.......from little things
Posted by: Captainmagic
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