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The Logic of Withdrawal

By Anthony Arnove, In These Times. Posted March 28, 2006.


The eight reasons why leaving Iraq now is the only sensible option.
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We find ourselves in a remarkable situation today. Despite a massive propaganda campaign in support of the occupation of Iraq, a clear majority of people in the United States now believes the invasion was not worth the consequences and should never have been undertaken.

Likewise, people strongly disapprove of the foreign policy of Republicans and Democrats in Congress, particularly their position on the war in Iraq. In a September 2005 New York Times-CBS News poll, support for immediate withdrawal stood at 52 percent, a remarkable figure when one considers that very few political organizations have articulated an "Out Now" position.

The official justifications for the war have been exposed as complete fallacies. Even conservative defenders of U.S. empire now complain that the situation in Iraq is a disaster.

Yet many people who opposed this unjust invasion, who opposed the 1991 Gulf War and the sanctions on Iraq for years before that, some of whom joined mass demonstrations against the war before it began, have been persuaded that the U.S. military should now remain in Iraq for the benefit of the Iraqi people. We confront the strange situation of many people mobilizing against an unjust war but then reluctantly supporting the military occupation that flows directly from it.

In part, this position is rooted in the pessimistic conclusions many drew after the February 15, 2003, day of international demonstrations -- perhaps the largest coordinated protest in human history -- failed to prevent the war. This pessimism was exacerbated by some of the leading spokespeople for the antiwar movement, who misled audiences by suggesting that the demonstrations could stop the war. As inspiring as the demonstrations were, it would have taken a significantly higher degree of protest, organization, and disruption of business as usual to do so.

The lesson of February 15 is not that protest no longer works, but that protest needs to be sustained, coherent, forceful, persistent, and bold -- rather than episodic and isolated. And it needs to involve large numbers of working-class people, veterans, military families, conscientious objectors, Arabs, Muslims, and other people from targeted communities, not just as passive observers but as active participants and leaders.

We will need this kind of protest to end the occupation of Iraq. But we will also need to be able to answer the objections and concerns of thoughtful, well-meaning people who have been persuaded by one or more of the arguments for why U.S. troops should remain in Iraq, at least until "stability" is restored. Below, I outline eight reasons why the United States should leave Iraq immediately, addressing common arguments for why the United States needs to "stay the course."

The U.S. Military has no right ro be in Iraq in the first place.

The Bush administration built its case for invading Iraq on a series of deceptions. The war in Iraq was sold on the idea that the United States was preempting a terrorist attack by Iraq. But Iraq posed no threat. The country was disarmed and had overwhelmingly complied with the extremely invasive weapons inspections. In a rare moment of honesty, Vice President Dick Cheney told CNN in March 2001,"I don't believe [Saddam Hussein] is a significant military threat today."

As the case for war has crumbled, so has the case for occupation, which also rests on the idea that the United States can violate the sovereignty of the Iraqi people and all the laws of occupation, such as the Hague and Geneva Conventions, which clearly restrict the right of occupying powers to interfere in the internal affairs of an occupied people.

The United States is not bringing democracy to Iraq.

Having failed to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq -- the first big lie of the invasion -- the United States has turned to a new big lie: George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, John Negroponte, Condoleezza Rice, John Bolton, and their friends are bringing democracy to the Iraqi people. Democracy has nothing to do with why the United States is in Iraq. The Bush administration invaded Iraq to secure long-established imperial interests in the Middle East -- the same reason Washington backed Saddam Hussein as he carried out the worst of his crimes against the Iraqi people, the Kurds, and the Iranians.

By invading Iraq, Washington hoped not only to install a regime more favorable to U.S. oil interests; it hoped to use Iraq as a staging ground for further interventions to redraw the map of the Middle East. Several U.S. bases have been established in Iraq and are likely to remain long after U.S. troops are expelled. All of this has nothing to do with democracy. In fact, the United States has long been a major obstacle to any secular, democratic, nationalist, or socialist movements in the region that stood for fundamental change, preferring instead what is euphemistically called "stability," even if it meant supporting the most reactionary fundamentalist religious forces or repressive regimes.

The U.S. government opposes genuine democracy in the Middle East for a simple reason: if ordinary people controlled the region's energy resources, they might be put toward local economic development and social needs, rather than going to fuel the profits of Western oil companies. Democracy cannot be "installed" by outside powers, at gunpoint. Genuine democracy can come about only through the struggle of people for control over their own lives and circumstances, through movements that are themselves democratic in nature. When confronted with such movements, such as the 1991 Iraqi uprising, the U.S. government has consistently preferred to see them crushed than to see them succeed.

The United States is not making the world a safer place by occupying Iraq.

The invasion of Iraq has made the world a far more unstable and dangerous place. By invading Iraq, Washington sent the message to other states that anything goes in the so-called war on terror.

After September 11, India called its nuclear rival Pakistan an "epicenter of terrorism." Israel has carried out "targeted assassinations" of Palestinians, bombed Syria, and threatened to strike Iran, using the same rationale that Bush did for the invasion of Iraq." You don't negotiate with terrorism, you uproot it. This is simply the doctrine of Mr. Bush that we're following," explained Uzi Landau, Israel's minister of public security.

Furthermore, the invasion of Iraq is spurring the drive for countries to develop a deterrent to U.S. power. The most likely response to the invasion of Iraq is that more countries will pursue nuclear weapons, which may be the only possible protection from attack, and will increase their spending on more conventional weapons systems. Each move in this game has a multiplier effect in a world that is already perilously close to the brink of self-annihilation through nuclear warfare or accident.

Meanwhile, the invasion has also quite predictably increased the resentment and anger that many people feel against the United States and its allies, therefore making innocent people in these countries far more vulnerable to terrorism, as we saw in the deadly attacks in Madrid on March 11, 2004, and London on July 7, 2005.

The United States is reviled not because people "hate our freedoms," as Bush suggests, but because people hate the very real impact of U.S. policies on their lives. As the British playwright and essayist Harold Pinter observed," People do not forget. They do not forget the death of their fellows, they do not forget torture and mutilation, they do not forget injustice, they do not forget oppression, they do not forget the terrorism of mighty powers. They not only don't forget. They strike back."

The United States is not preventing civil war in Iraq.

Perhaps the greatest fear of many antiwar activists who now support the occupation is that the withdrawal of U.S. troops will lead to civil war. This idea has been encouraged repeatedly by supporters of the war. "Sectarian fault lines in Iraq are inexorably pushing the country towards civil war unless we actually intervene decisively to stem it," explained one U.S. Army official, making the case for a continued U.S.presence.

But Washington is not preventing a civil war from breaking out. In fact, occupation authorities are deliberately pitting Kurds against Arabs, Shia against Sunni, and faction against faction to influence the character of the future government, following a classic divide- and-rule strategy. Taking this idea to its logical extreme, New York Times columnist Thomas L. Friedman argues, "We should arm the Shiites and Kurds and leave the Sunnis of Iraq to reap the wind." Such arguments are not just the fantasy of keyboard warriors like Friedman, however. As the journalist A.K. Gupta notes, "the Pentagon is arming, training, and funding" militias in Iraq "for use in counter-insurgency operations." Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said such commandos were among "the forces that are going to have the greatest leverage on suppressing and eliminating the insurgencies."

In addition, the Iraqi constitution, drafted under intense pressure from occupation authorities, essentially enshrines sectarian divisions in Iraqi politics. And, finally, despite all of its rhetoric about confronting Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq, the United States has in fact encouraged it, bringing formerly marginalized fundamentalist parties such as the Dawa Party and the Iranian-backed Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq into the Iraqi government.

The United States is not confronting terrorism by staying in Iraq.

Iraq has never been the center of a terrorist threat to the United States. Each month, further evidence emerges that the Bush administration went to great lengths to suppress facts that undermined its case for war, while touting bogus evidence in its support. As the New York Times reported in November 2005, "A top member of Al Qaeda in American custody was identified as a likely fabricator months before the Bush administration began to use his statements as the foundation for its claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biological and chemical weapons, according to newly declassified portions of a Defense Intelligence Agency document."

Al-Qaeda made its first appearance in Iraq only after the invasion, a predictable outcome of the U.S. occupation. In reality, the United States engaged in state terrorism under the pretext of fighting a terrorist threat that did not exist in Iraq, and in the process greatly increased the likelihood of individual and organizational terrorist acts targeting the United States or its proxies abroad.

Even more circular is the idea that the United States has to stay in Iraq until it "defeats" the resistance to the occupation. The occupation itself is the source of the resistance, a fact that even some of the people responsible for the war have been forced to acknowledge.

The United States is not honoring those who died by continuing the conflict.

One of the most cynical reasons for staying in Iraq was advanced by President Bush in response to the growing public criticism over the mounting deaths of U.S. soldiers and the deliberate campaign by the administration to suppress images of the returning coffins. Speaking to a carefully targeted audience in Salt Lake City, Utah, where he fled to escape the protest of Cindy Sheehan, who lost her son, Casey, in Iraq on April 4, 2004, Bush made a rare public acknowledgment of the number of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We owe them something," he said. "We will finish the task that they gave their lives for. We will honor their sacrifice by staying on the offensive against the terrorists."

Sheehan herself had the best response to this attempt to manipulate people into supporting continued occupation, asking, "Why should I want one more mother to go through what I've gone through, because my son is dead?. . . I don't want him using my son's death or my family's sacrifice to continue the killing."

The soldiers in Iraq have not died for a "noble cause," as Bush claims. Whatever personal motivations may have brought them into the military, they died for oil, for empire, for power and profit. More deaths and injuries of Iraqis and of U.S. soldiers will only compound the tragedy of the numerous lives already lost.

The United States is not rebuilding Iraq.

The contractors now in Iraq are not there to help the people of Iraq but to help themselves, drawing on their close ties to influential politicians to secure contracts and profit from what Pratap Chatterjee rightly calls the "reconstruction racket."

The reality is, Halliburton, Bechtel, and the other companies in Iraq are looting the country far more than they are rebuilding it. Iraqis have been forced to pay elevated prices to import oil, benefiting corporations like Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root, while ordinary Iraqis have to stand in lines sometimes for days to buy gasoline. Project after project remains unfinished. Hospitals are in shambles. Electricity is still at woefully inadequate levels.

As the journalist Naomi Klein eloquently observes, "The United States, having broken Iraq, is not in the process of fixing it. It is merely continuing to break the country and its people by other means, using not only F-16s and Bradleys, but now the less flashy weaponry" of economic strangulation.

The Iraqi people are perfectly capable of rebuilding their own society, in fact far more so than foreign soldiers or contractors. To the extent that there have been any social services or security in the last two years, it is primarily Iraqis who have provided it. During the years of sanctions, Iraqis also showed their immense resourcefulness in holding together their badly damaged infrastructure. Iraqi engineers, teachers, and doctors have long been among the most educated and best trained in the Arab world. It is ultimately a racist worldview that believes Iraqis cannot rebuild or run their own country.

The United States is not fulfilling its obligation to the Iraqi people for the harm and suffering it has caused.

Understandably, many opponents of the war now believe that the United States has an obligation to the Iraqi people and therefore has to stay to "clean up the mess it has created." MoveOn.org, which grabbed headlines and signed up millions of online members with its anti-Bush campaigning, refuses to call for withdrawal of troops from Iraq because, in the words of its executive director, Eli Pariser, "There are no good options in Iraq." [Editor's Note: MoveOn.org's current public position is that it supports an exit strategy including the proposal by Congressman Jack Murtha that would withdraw troops from Iraq.] Using this same logic, leading anti-sanctions and antiwar groups such as the Education for Peace in Iraq Center have formally adopted positions in support of occupation, if somehow a more enlightened occupation, and therefore against immediate withdrawal.

We must confront the bizarre logic of saying that the people who have devastated Iraq, who encouraged and enforced sanctions that cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the last decade, who have failed at even the most basic responsibilities as an occupying power, who are the source of the instability in Iraq today, are the only ones who can protect Iraqis from hunger and anarchy. In no other area of our lives do we accept such logic, but when it comes to the crimes of empire, we are supposed to continually ignore history. The "doctrine of good intentions" exculpates all crimes.

The reality, however, is that the U.S. occupation, rather than being a source of stability in Iraq, is the major source of instability and ongoing suffering.

Moreover, those calling for immediate withdrawal do not advocate a position of isolationism and of simply walking away from any obligation to the Iraqi people. Does the U.S. government have an obligation to the Iraqi people? Absolutely. An obligation for the crimes Washington supported for years when Saddam Hussein was an ally. For arming and supporting both sides in the brutal Iran-Iraq War. For the destruction of the 1991 Gulf War. For the use of depleted uranium munitions, cluster bombs, daisy cutters, and white phosphorus. For the devastating sanctions. For the humiliation and deaths caused by the 2003 invasion, and for the great damage the occupation has caused since.

But the first step in meeting this obligation is to withdraw immediately.

If there were any genuine justice for the people of Iraq, not only would the politicians responsible for this unjust war face prosecution for their crimes, but the U.S. government would be required to pay reparations to the Iraqi people and to the families of U.S. soldiers who have been maimed and killed by its criminal actions.

In demanding an end to the U.S. occupation, we do not need to call for some other occupying power to replace the United States. We should allow the people of Iraq to determine their own future. This means, as Naomi Klein has argued, that in addition to calling for an end to military occupation, we should be calling for an end to the economic occupation of Iraq and the cancellation of all debts that Iraq still owes from the previous regime (many of which still have not been forgiven).

If the Iraqis ask for outside assistance, that is their prerogative. But it is their decision, not ours, to make, and that decision can only be freely made if the United States, United Kingdom, and other occupying armies withdraw completely and end their economic, political, and military coercion of Iraq.

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This article is adapted from Anthony Arnove's forthcoming book Iraq: The Logic of Withdrawal, due out on April 18 from The New Press.

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Big Egos -- Again
Posted by: Moonray on Mar 28, 2006 12:30 AM   
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As a Vietnam veteran, watching the Iraq War unfold has been like watching a rerun of the Southeast Asia debacle. Only the names are different.

Again, it was the big egos of a few powerful men who got us into this mess. Back then, LBJ tried to impose Pax Americana on the wily commies (through enormous slaughter, of course). This time it's Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney who are determined to show Saddam that he can't diss the Mighty USA and get away with it. And the fact that Halliburton and the oil industry are benefiting enormously from the war is just icing on the cake.

This is all pretty tragic, but it's even more tragic to reflect that it will keep on happening until Americans make it a lot more difficult for their leaders to embark on unnecessary wars. Unfortunately, the military-industrial complex and its minions continue to call the shots, and can bamboozle most of us by waving Old Glory and spouting a few patriotic slogans.

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It's Time for a CHANGE
Posted by: thinkverybig on Mar 28, 2006 1:14 AM   
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The United States immigration policy needs a complete overhaul. My question is this. Why are Cubans allowed to come ashore to the U.S. and Haitians are sent back at sea? This blatant act of racism is shameful and disgraceful and should be changed immediately. The United States is so set on trying to maintain control of its super power status that it doesn’t care who it tramples on the keep it. But what is the reason for not allowing people of color to enter into the U.S. other than racism? What is the reason it has allowed illegal immigrants to enter into the U.S. and work for wages well below minimum wage? For businesses to continue to prosper while keeping the bridge wider between the rich and the poor, which is a new form of present day slavery by big business with the U.S. Government’s approval. Haven’t we had enough of free labor? I think 400 years of it is quite enough and by the way, where is that 40 acres and a mule you promised those slaves?

While the republicans were spending millions of dollars of tax payers money to investigate and impeach President Clinton, we could have been focusing on issues such as illegal immigration, poverty, jobs for Americans, campaign finance reform, political corruption, the outsourcing of jobs to other countries, the environment, overpaid CEO’s, outlawing lobbying, outlawing monopolies, corporations taking advantage of citizens with ridiculous late fees on credit cards, bank teller fees and more

It’s time for a change in our political, social and judicial system. The time has come. I’m ready, are you?

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» RE: It's Time for a CHANGE Posted by: bryanhurst
» RE: It's Time for a CHANGE Posted by: blueneck
» RE: It's Time for a CHANGE Posted by: thinkverybig
Dems just as guilty
Posted by: nbrown on Mar 28, 2006 1:47 AM   
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I'm glad this was just an adaptation from a full-length book. This piece was very short, probably too short to be effective.

For the sake of brevity, one can get a similar view of the war by reading the Iraq War Timeline. It includes political quotes and events, in chronological order, that together build a more complete picture of the war. And it speaks for itself.

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Good article
Posted by: WhatNow? on Mar 28, 2006 3:59 AM   
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I am ashamed of my country. Hussien provided better living conditions for most Iraqis than the gold ole USA has.

This article reflects my opinion perfectly.

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» RE: well, maybe not quite Posted by: blueneck
Mission Failed?
Posted by: Colin on Mar 28, 2006 4:42 AM   
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Of course, the article assumes that any one of the factors listed matters so much. There is the flip side which could be interpreted as suggesting the war was a resounding success and with every day it continues, continues to be. After all...

1) America/UK coalition has its hands on Iraqi oil which is being pumped out by the pipe load.
2) Permanent military bases are being set up in the region ensuring that No.1 is ongoing.
3) Nigh on useless puppet government keeps up appearences.
3) Billions have been stolen.
4) Billions more has been promised but never given by instead handing it to other American's on behalf of the people of Iraq. The net result being that the money never leaves America but you get to look dead generous.
5) Who knows what other deals have been struck benefitting the individuals who have made this mess?
6) The entire region is now weaker. This might sound contrary to news articles saying Muslims are standing together but really they aren't, are they? Imagine if the middle east formed the kind of partnership you see with the EU. Once you consider the energy reserves they have, they would have the entire planet by the balls. That's not going to happen at the moment is it...?

And all it took to achieve this? The right few words (even though everyone knew nobody actually meant what they were saying) from the right few people. There is a lesson in human psychology there somewhere.

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» RE: Mission Failed? Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: Mission Failed? Posted by: cinattra
questions unanswered
Posted by: bryanhurst on Mar 28, 2006 5:06 AM   
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While I've been leaning toward an immediate withdrawal of US and coalition troops for some time now, this article STILL doesn't address the one legitimate reason to maintain some kind of occupation of Iraq: to prevent an all-out civil war and to fix what we've broken. Poorly as our occupation is going in its present state, the author doesn't make any kind of case that a complete withdrawal WON'T lead to a bloodbath. We can't undo what has been done, but I worry that we may very well make a bad situation even worse by withdrawing all of our troops from Iraq.

If you hired a plumber to fix your house's plumbing, and he ends up breaking much of it, of course you fire the plumber (and sue for reperations). But you don't just leave the broken plumbing unfixed.

We have an obligation to the people of Iraq, that much we can all agree on. What's not clear is, where do we go from here?

Had the Bush regime really been serious about "fixing" Iraq, it would have heeded the advice of its generals on the ground and put hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground immediately after the "mission accomplished" moment. It didn't, and it's no doubt too late for that now.

I think we should do three things:

1. As John Murtha suggests, redeploy our troops from the populated areas of Iraq, where they are inflaming the insurgency, to nearby unpopulated areas from where they can secure the borders and maintain a "quick strike" force that can quickly intervene should sectarian violence flare up.

2. Establish a "trust fund" of sorts, with tens of billions of dollars, to go toward the rebuilding of Iraq. (And, as the author suggests, forgive whatever debt Iraq still has with the US.)

3. Cancel ALL contracts the US government may have with American companies like Halliburton, Bechtel, etc. Allow and encourage Iraq to do its own rebuilding and provide its own services, and to contract on its own for that which they're not able to do themselves - using a normal bidding process, not the no-bid contracts that the Bush regime gives to its cronies.

The author of this article does a good job of acknowledging what the US has done wrong in Iraq, but doesn't really do much of a job suggesting what we should do to fulfill our enormous obligations there.

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» RE: questions unanswered Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: questions unanswered Posted by: Ellen Remore
» RE: questions unanswered Posted by: Abushite
» RE: questions unanswered Posted by: blueneck
» RE: questions unanswered Posted by: cinattra
The One Reason Why we "shouldn't" leave Iraq
Posted by: oneMan on Mar 28, 2006 6:03 AM   
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I say shouldn't, but as I don't agree with the agenda it could more accurately be "won't". You see Iraq is too strategic a location for permanent military bases for us just to withdraw. View the world as a chess board. Iraq is nearly the exact center of the board (a highly strategic position for the non chess players). The American government has dedicated far too many resources towards gaining this position to simply abandon that now. There are many problems in Iraq. None of those problems in any way hinder the usage of our bases in Iraq as launch points for proactive strikes. From Iraq American attack Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Pakistan and India (just to name a few) within a matter of hours from the air and in less than two days (less in some cases) on the ground. The American Empire simply is not going to give up such a strategic location during its expansion phase. The only possible way the US is going to leave is if Hannibal shows up early and unfortunately for him elephants aren't as impressive any more.

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Len Hart
Posted by: Len Hart on Mar 28, 2006 6:49 AM   
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The best reason for withdrawing from Iraq is the fact that we should never have attacked and invaded that sovereign nation in the first place. Bush flouted international conventions and laws to which the U.S. is bound, principles which the U.S. itself had insisted upon at the end of WWII. The attack and invasion of Iraq was and remains a crime —a capital crime by U.S. Codes; Section 2441. Our staying does nothing to improve conditions in Iraq nor does it undo the crime. There is no merit to any position that says, in effect, that we should continue the commission of a crime. There is no merit to any position that maintains, in effect, that one should keep on doing whatever it is that makes you sick.

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Human beings aren't pawns in a global game of chess!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 28, 2006 7:16 AM   
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The real reasons for invading Iraq had nothing to do with WMDs, and everything to do with domestic political concerns, 'geopolitical strategy' as a method of crushing aspiring countries (as in the 'Project for a New American Century'), and the desire to control Iraq's oil. The people behind this lack a basic sense of humanity; they do view humans as expendable (using names like 'raghead, camel jockey, etc. is a way of reinforcing this). See Palast's piece.

Even if we get troops out of this war, chances are that these neocon crazies will immediately try and invade Iran, Nigeria, Venezuela - a long list of oil-rich regions could be targeted. Nevertheless, the troops should all be brought home now, and the death squads operating out of the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior should be brought to justice. The best way to do this might be for American citizens to vocally support an international war crimes tribunal focusing on all aspects of the invasion and war in Iraq. I'd like to see Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld called before such a tribunal. In the end, they will have to answer for their crimes against humanity.

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Drip, leak, flow, gush
Posted by: knitter on Mar 28, 2006 8:03 AM   
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Ah, but to use your plumbing analogy, the inept plumber who broke the pipes would not be the choice for repairing them. Having the failed plumber get to choose who would follow (no-bid government contracts) is a plan for more leaky pipes.
Pack up the tool kits and go home.

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» RE: Drip, leak, flow, gush Posted by: knitter
Why Bush Failed
Posted by: Fade on Mar 28, 2006 9:19 AM   
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http://spaces.msn.com/risingsons/

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When simply doesn't matter
Posted by: Ellen Remore on Mar 28, 2006 11:51 AM   
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Having perpetrated a war of agression, destroyed the nation's infrastructure, economy, morale, and reduced it to a state of barbaric anarchy, all Bush's contractors and all Bush's men simply can't put it together again. The fallacy of hanging around to install a democracy will only result in more dead Americans, to say nothing of Iraqis. It is their country, and whether we get out next week, or 30 years from now, five minutes after we leave, they will exercise their sovereign right, and do precisely what the exigencies of the moment happen to dictate. The waste of one more life for Bush's Big Lie is completely insupportable.

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WRONG: The United States is not preventing civil war in Iraq
Posted by: ashrock on Mar 28, 2006 12:04 PM   
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This U.S. is preventing civil war in Iraq - at least in all of Iraq. Clearly, there is much sectarian violence going on in Iraq. But it will get much worse if we leave.

I encourage all of you to see the recent FRONTLINE episode "The Insurgency." There is a scene with an Iraqi who says that about 25% of the country is in civil war, but this is preferable to 100% of the country which is what would happen if we withdrew immediately.

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» RE: Not Civil War Posted by: blueneck
Damed if you Do Damed if you Don't....
Posted by: Captainmagic on Mar 28, 2006 12:50 PM   
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America leaves tommorrow and Iran Invades. Thats the sticking point of the occupation....are there any Pro-Shites in Iraq!!!....Thats the Bloody Mess...How do you get it so wrong..so quickly..This defeat in the middle east is so comprehensive it defies imagination. So where do you go from here...only one way..the good ole USA way...ATTACK!! Make sure you lay blame for the losses squarely at the feet of the few...for there will be many.

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Iran won't invade
Posted by: cardboardurinal on Mar 28, 2006 1:05 PM   
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The reason they will never invade is that they don't need to. The new Iraqi government has already shown itself to be sympathetic to the Iranian government, so why would Iran take a risk at hurting its army to take a country that is already its ally?

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» RE: Iran might invade Posted by: blueneck
Another reason: Credit!
Posted by: mythbuster on Mar 28, 2006 2:28 PM   
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Alexander Hamilton realized during our War for Independence that the only way to defeat the British Empire was to destroy British credit. The war ended when British merchants and politicians realized it was bankrupting the Crown. Bush will be seen as the great um-maker of empire. Under his "leadership" just about every index of American financial life has eroded. Without a constant expansion of consumer credit (and draconian new bankruptcy laws) our economy would stall. I've always believed that the Iraq War was our first out-and-out predatory war since the Spanish-American War. Look around: We are losing market share worldwide. War making is our business. Problem is, we can't afford it. Not for much longer....

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» RE: Another reason: Credit! Posted by: cinattra
Nukes for defence
Posted by: phindrup on Mar 28, 2006 5:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Furthermore, the invasion of Iraq is spurring the drive for countries to develop a deterrent to U.S. power. The most likely response to the invasion of Iraq is that more countries will pursue nuclear weapons, which may be the only possible protection from attack.
Any country that is potentially under threat from the US -- and that is any country with substantial reserves of raw materials -- ought to be arming themselves with nukes.
I think that any government that is not doing so is failing in its first duty to its citizens.
From one of the Iraqi sites: 'If the US leaves, we will have a mess, but it will be our mess.'

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» RE: Nukes for defence Posted by: cinattra
» RE: Nukes for defence Posted by: ggeddis
rover
Posted by: Roverton on Mar 29, 2006 9:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheaper gas. the thing that will just accumulate and kill us all later anyway.

Brilliant little species, we.

Sometimes I'll look up at the night sky and ponder how many of those billion-fold worlds have gone though this issue successfully and how many have not.

Then I wonder which of those will we be.

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