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A Young Man Dies in Iraq

By Chris Christensen, Tomdispatch.com. Posted August 6, 2005.


'He didn't know it, but as a small town southerner he was being trained for his death since early childhood.'
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Editor's Note: This letter was written by Chris Christensen, an airline pilot and Vietnam War veteran living in a small Texas town.

In our small town of Columbus, Texas (pop. 3900), we buried one of our local sons on his 19th birthday. He was killed in action in Iraq. He was a friend of my two oldest sons and his father a friend of mine.

There is not a lot for a young man to do in our town, and most leave for college, jobs... etc. Christopher came to see me at his father's request prior to enlisting last summer. I am an Air Force vet from Southeast Asia. I talked blue in the face to try to get Christopher to go with me to an Air Force or Navy recruiter. In fact, I told him in no uncertain terms that the Army would put a gun in his hand and send him out to be a target. No soap.

His head was already filled with a lot of crud from the recruiter about being a scout, riding a 4-wheeler ATV around -- big fun! (Christopher was an Eagle Scout.) He had an acquaintance who had been doing that (not in Iraq), and I got the sense that this acquaintance was giving him the hard sell too. I wonder if the Army has a referral bonus system. Do you know?

Christopher also had this inexplicable desire to "go shoot some 'Raqis." Some latent desire maybe from too much video gaming. I heard that in the weeks before his death, he was involved in a brief fire-fight and froze in terror. No doubt reality caught up to him at the speed of a 7.62. Too bad his recruiter or buddy had not told him about the fear he would experience when he realized someone wanted to really hurt him or kill him.

When I learned of Christopher's death, I was sitting at a PC in a hotel lounge in Manhattan. (I'm an airline pilot and was on a layover in New York.) I broke down and cried. There were lots of others around and I'm sure they were wondering... but none asked. I found I was crying not so much for the senseless loss of a young life, or even the grief our friends would bear. As I thought about it, I was crying for our country. What have we come to?

As I mentioned, there is not much for a young man to do in small towns like ours after high school. Christopher had mentioned to me when we talked last, before his enlistment, about riding that 4-wheeler ATV around as an Army scout and having a good time. His recruiter had him hooked. He also mentioned going to shoot some "'Raqis."

This is my sadness. Our children are being weaned on hatred and violence in this country. It starts with television, gets reinforced and is refined with violent video games (one, in particular, produced and distributed by the U.S. Army), and finally the infection spreads through violent team sports in high school. Football in the South is the battlefield training ground for the next generation of cannon fodder. Kids are told to go out there and "hurt 'em, tear 'em up, kill 'em." It is ingrained.

(Careful now, don't get me confused with the liberal left. I own guns and support the right. There is a huge difference between defense of home and property and exporting violence to other countries.)

As I travel in other countries I see no parallel. There are of course team sports, but violence and undercurrents of hatred that lurk within are, as much as I can tell, not there.

Christopher didn't know it, but as a small town southerner he was being trained for his death since early childhood.

Our little town votes mostly Democrat on local elections, but typically Republican in presidential races. Discussion or debate about policy in public is seldom heard and somewhat discouraged. What a shame. Most people around here take a passing interest in national or foreign policy for a week or two prior to an election, then just turn back to football, or whatever is covered on the sports page that day.

The notion of death or dismemberment at the hands of an enemy is so foreign as to be incomprehensible to most American youth. Our media does such a precise job of keeping images and details of such things out of the public eye. Not so for many foreign presses. Our schools would never consider teaching children about anything so morbid or unpleasant.

The thought that a boy like Christopher would so lightly desire to kill some people he knew nothing about is very distressing to me. On the one hand, Christopher was a pretty gentle and easy-going kid. If someone said to him, "Hey let's go shoot some kids from Sealy," a rival school, he would obviously have said, "You're crazy -- get lost!" But Iraqis, why, it's open season.

He only saw the differences. He had somehow developed enough hatred to override his sense of right and wrong, and any teaching of love of fellow man. He went to the Southern Baptist Church here, and I know it was taught to him. On the other hand, the president of the Southern Baptist convention declared this a "just war." A little hypocrisy there and probably confusing for Christopher. We left that Church, by the way.

I know of a few men and women who knew Christopher, who have been supporting the occupation, and are beginning to change their minds. His death is the second our rural county has experienced in the last few months. It is beginning to change some attitudes here -- but too late I'm afraid.

I hope that we learn sooner than we did in Vietnam that we can't successfully force our ideals on another society unwilling to adopt them or defend them for themselves.

There just aren't enough Christophers to go around.

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Comments from a Mother of a Draft Age Son
Posted by: Sandra on Aug 6, 2005 9:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for writing this article. As a mother of a son there is no way that I would encourage my son to enlist and participate in this war in Iraq. As far as I'm concerned this war is illegal and immoral and accomplished nothing but serving as a training ground for terrorists. I hope that the chickenhawks Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rove, etc. have nightmares about the soldiers and civilians who have been killed and will continue to be killed in this war in Iraq. I also hope that they understand that through their actions, they have condemed this country to continued threats from terrorists. In his soldiers uniform on that US battleship, he proclaimed "Mission accomplished", indeed Mr. Bush, what mission was that?

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» Chickenhawks are sleeping Posted by: spaltedonion
copy and post
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 10:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Magnetic Ribbons and the Yellowcake of Faith

When we start from deluded sleep
at last, and know the dream
for dream, embraced en masse...
When bells that rang victorious
hang mute, their tarnished claims
ignored in disrepute,
and bitter sons, having been all
they could be, can't wish back innocence
or the leg below the knee...

(The brash regime trims reason
from its ranks, its black guard
in the street, protecting flanks.)

Then will we heed the schemers'
gloating leer? "There's no future
for any of you here."
So row on row, with hand
in trembling hand, it's come to this:
we dreamers better stand.


-G. Karl Marcus
12/14/04


It's past time to demand the press start asking the important questions of this administration. We need to demand a full and independent inquiry into ALL the blatant inconsistencies in the "official" story of what happened that September morning! For an eye-opener, check out this and related websites. http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html
All the other lies told by Bush/Cheney begin with 9/11. As painful as it will be to endure, we must find out the truth of what happened. We ignore obvious bullshit at our peril.

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We have become a violent people
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 6, 2005 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If only we might have a couple generations without war. I recall as a child hearing adults talk about the period between WWI and II. We were then a peaceful people. Our military was a small highly professional, specialized group.

Since WWII we have not had a generation that has not trained large numbers of our people to kill. As a consequence that is where our resources go, and civilian control is a mere formality.

We now take being at war for granted. We have a commitment to the justification of the killing we have done. It takes the form of willingness to go on killing.

It's not that we do not have the alternative to use 'police actions' under international supervision. Instead, we are already prepped to respond when Washington, rightly or wrongly, sends our people into battle.

Yes, we even entertain ourselves with violence. Is it any surprise violence dominates pop culture? Freud called that 'sadism.'

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Support the right?
Posted by: Michiganman on Aug 6, 2005 11:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find a huge contridiction in a man who bemoans the death of a friend in war and also supports the right(Bush). What did you think would happen?

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» RE: Support the right? Posted by: blackavenger
» RE: Support the right? Posted by: gazevans
» gazevans Posted by: blackavenger3
» RE: Support the right? Posted by: jimb
» WOW I surely do APOLOGIZE Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Support the right? Posted by: morticia
Your title is missing the words: "Defending America"
Posted by: jbeeso on Aug 6, 2005 11:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The sympathy evoked for a fallen comrade does not grant the author license to employ hearsay in demeaning a young man's service to his country, or that soldier's contribution to the cause of freedom. The author's attempt to hijack the reader's sympathy for the purpose of laying the blame for this war on football, video games, and army recruiters is transparent, crass and low.

I understand that Desert Shield/Storm is "sooo 1990's" in pop-culture, but do you understand that Hussein violated our cease fire by barring the weapons inspectors access to Iraq? That he did so for the second time before we responded with war?

Do you understand that 5700 Kurds--men, women, babies, grandmothers--REAL PEOPLE WHO WERE IN REFUGE--died convulsing on the ground? That they were victims of sarin and mustard gas attacks by RG gunships under the orders of one Saddam Hussein? That in 1997 then-President Clinton ordered 2.4 million of us--the balance of our armed forces--to receive the vaccine against B. anthracis--against the very real possibility that we would be targetted with anthrax by...guess whom? Yeah, the wonderful, upstanding example of a human being who "did not have WMD".

There is your history lesson, told from the vantage point of my own eyes and with the voices of nearly 6000 mouths filled by chemical death. Now you tell me: Why, oh why, would an evil dictator with a historical taste for using sarin and mustard gas on refugees and nations alike, who IRREFUTABLY HAD DEVELOPED, MANUFACTURED AND STOCKPILED BACILLUS. ANTHRACIS, who had missiles capable of delivering significant payloads to a distance of 2000 miles--why would he kick out and bar entry of an international team scouring his country in search of chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the warheads and missiles used in their previous deployments?

...Because the Butcher of Baghdad wanted all the wacko bloggers to think he was a victim in an unjust war against "The Great Satan". Well, dress that guy in a flight suit and land him on AlterNet: Mission Accomplished.

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» Rewriting history Posted by: Sojourner
» Wrong answer Posted by: jbeeso
» RE: Wrong answer Posted by: harpy
» I forgive you! Posted by: Frog
» China already is a threat Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Jingoist? Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» Jimb Posted by: blackavenger3
» RE: Here are your stats..... Posted by: papergirl
» RE: Here are your stats..... Posted by: truthminer
» papergirl Posted by: blackavenger3
» RE: papergirl Posted by: papergirl
» Heres your facts cc Posted by: blackavenger3
» "Defending America" Posted by: elmandingo
» RE: "Defending America" Posted by: jbeeso
Ask Scott Ritter
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 12:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sojourner, you are absolutely right on. Alternative Radio taped a speech by chief weapons inspector Scott Ritter, ex-marine intelligence, 12 years, at Evergreen College in Wash. State in Feb. Tapes available from AR. Excellent one-hour presentation. Ritter said he initially got in Hussein's face over access to sites, but interference by the Bush administration, trying to place CIA operatives on the inspection teams, became a serious problem, and resulted in the Bush wackos, including the conservative punditry, turning on Ritter with all manner of dicrediting epithets. Jbeeso, if you're interested in informed debate, I suggest you turn off the corporate media and start asking yourself, "who profits by feeding me a line of shit?"

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» RE: Ask Scott Ritter Posted by: PECKERWOOD
Love your country, fear your government
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 12:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One can only hope Fitzpatrick keeps his nose to the ground, following the trail of shit from Novack back to Iraq and WMD's and finally, to Ground Zero, the starting point. Our leaders are criminals.

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nightmares?
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you think people who could conceive and execute the 9/11 attacks in so brilliantly cold a fashion would have trouble sleeping at night?

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» RE: nightmares? Posted by: rkewen
Demand the Truth
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 3:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blackavenger, better go examine the growing body of damning evidence indicating that 9/11 didn't "go down" quite as neatly as your government layed out. Ever wonder why Bush didn't want an inquiry? Or why the steel from the towers was whisked away so quickly, without thorough examination? Or how about the fact that aviation fuel can't possibly burn hot enough to melt steel in ambient air? Is it plausible three buildings would collapse so neatly into their own footprints without demolition experts' help? And where were our nation's defenses that morning? Were ALL the radar watchers at the water cooler? Don't you want an explanation for all these inconsistencies? Do you really believe everything THEY tell you?

check out this site if you dare
http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

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» perhaps worse Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: perhaps worse Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: perhaps worser Posted by: Michiganman
» rockpicker Posted by: sarjint
» sarjint Posted by: rockpicker
» Jbeeso, whataya say to this? Posted by: rockpicker
RE: What illegal war??
Posted by: Jordon on Aug 6, 2005 4:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't blame the troops, blame the government. And blackavenger, you are an idiot, do not post again until you have learned to write and spell correctly. Also, read up a bit on the topic you are arguing about next time, your ignorance gives me a headache.

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» RE: What illegal war?? Posted by: Jersey Devil
» RE: What illegal war?? Posted by: Jordon
Censorship
Posted by: pb120669 on Aug 6, 2005 5:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears that some reasonable discussion is deemed unacceptable in this forum. I'm referring to comments posted about this story that have been removed. User MohammedIbrahim had posted comments to the effect that it was good that the soldier in this story had been killed. I posted comments condemning that assertion. All the comments have since been removed. This is most disturbing. Especially since this forum stands in opposition to the authoritarian tendencies of the present administration. It is shameful censorship and should be corrected.

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» RE: Censorship Posted by: MohammedIbrahim
» RE: Censorship Posted by: pb120669
» RE: Censorship Posted by: Frog
» MohammedIbrahim Posted by: cardboardurinal
» RE: MohammedIbrahim Posted by: cardboardurinal
» RE: MohammedIbrahim Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: MohammedIbrahim Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: MohammedIbrahim Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: MohammedIbrahim Posted by: Pepper
» RE: MohammedIbrahim Posted by: PECKERWOOD
» RE: Censorship Posted by: PECKERWOOD
» RE: Censorship Posted by: PECKERWOOD
Here, here
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 6:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I second that! We're already faced with the selectivity of the corporate media only telling us what the bosses think we should hear. Let these forums be a sanctum for open discussion and intelligent debate. Anybody notice how absolutely blacked-out the coverage was on the July 23 town hall meetings across the country? That should scare every "patriot." Some of you probably don't know about the meetings that took place on the third anniversary of the Downing Street Minutes. Well, it was a big deal, and not even NPR mentioned it. Liz Holtzman's speech in NYC was especially important. A copy of it is available on http://www.thenation.com Ol' George might just have his tit in a ringer if we can replace enough repugs in the House next year to try him for war crimes. Turns out, under the War Crimes Act of 1996, there's no statute of limitations for torture or inhumane treatment resulting in the death of a detainee. I believe we've been responsible for somewhere around thirty or so, between Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Thanks for removing the verbal hate messages
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 6, 2005 6:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ibrahim's message offended me. Blatant hate drives people away. I assumed it was a phony plant. Certainly, even if genuine, it was far from 'reasonable;' it was a curse.

During the weeks I've been reading this BB, it has seemingly attracted a handful of rightwingers. I assume no one is reading their blogs, so they come here to rant.

Other BBs have been wrecked. I assume the rightwing is out to wreck this one. The style is recognizable, comfirming Hannah Arendt's characterization of evil as "banal."

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» OK Try this. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: OK Try this. Posted by: pb120669
» RE: OK Try this. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: OK Try this. Posted by: pb120669
» PS Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: PS Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: PS Posted by: Sojourner
Let him speak
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 7:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want to hear what Muhammad Ibrahim has to say. I'm not afraid of his viewpoint. Better he express himself verbally, and we listen, than to have him and those as angry as he forced to express themselves in more "explosive" terms. Isn't it time we finally heard what these people have been screaming at us for all these years? Let him speak. Be still. Listen. Hear the frustration, the utter despair. And consider from whence it springs.

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» RE: Let him speak Posted by: pb120669
» Set up your own Web site. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Set up your own Web site. Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: Set up your own Web site. Posted by: pb120669
» RE: Set up your own Web site. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Set up your own Web site. Posted by: pb120669
"Never, never, never, never give up!" -Churchill commencement address
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 6, 2005 8:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear in Ibrahim's voice despair emboldened by our indifference. I hear the sustained defiance of men set to fight and die for their freedom. I hear an incurable patriot, infected with the curse of nationalism. Is there one among us who would not sacrifice his own life to protect his family and farm?

Listen to the angry oppressed and address their grievances, or live with war.

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» Eye Opener Posted by: Michiganman
RE: Hi there!
Posted by: bonapartist on Aug 7, 2005 6:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He - he, gosh, you are so smart.

Imagine that, and Osama had such good relations with previous US administrations one would expect he endorsed Bush.

After all, it was CIA who trained and virtually created him. Oh, I forgot, it was OK when he was killing Commies in Afghanistan but when he used the same methods against Americans it become a crime.

Not to mention that Bush’s hard approach managed to increase the number of global terror attacks for about 300% and Osama is still free. Aye, “War on Terror” (or Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism) is a smashing success, especially in Madrid and London.

He - he

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Tired of the same old untruth
Posted by: errandchild on Aug 7, 2005 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever since Kerry was up for president I've heard many people talk about how "terrorists vote for Kerry". This is bullshit and now I'm going to tell you why.
Ever since our government started it's "war on terror," the world has begun to hate us more. Not because we were justified, but because we were not justified. Enlistment in terrorists orginizations obviously increased. More and more people hate this country and it's not because of our freedom; it's because of our arrogance. Do you really think that Osama and his orginization want to become weaker by endorsing a candidate that would probably create less hate. Not to mention that if he ever said that he endorsed Kerry, don't you think that it was a way to help keep Bush in the White House knowing that him staying would create more enlistment into his orginization? Besides, what kind a moron listens to Osama's opinion and doesn't think that it has a motive to it? If anything, Osama and every other American-hating terrorist orginization WANT to keep Bush in the White House because the more the world hates America, the more people/power these orginizations gain.

Stop the ignorance, stop the hatred, start listening.

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RE: Hi there!
Posted by: Frog on Aug 7, 2005 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much do the Repugs pay you for this tough guy stuff?

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No One should go till the Bush twins sign up.
Posted by: David In The Midwest on Aug 7, 2005 11:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have two "fightin' age" sons -- 20 and 23.
It is there decision about joining the military, but my advice is NO. As soon as we see the Prez and Mr. Bush encourage the twins, Barbara and Jenna, to sign up and git on over to Iraq to defend freedom, then, and only then would I ever think about advising my sons to think about it. But, of course, that will never happen. First, Barbara and Jenna are from a class of folks who don't go to war -- they don't need to. Second, they will follow their chickenhawk dad and let others to the fighting. And, third, they are probably not that concerned about Iraq, being to busy going around to the clubs and partying.

Who is fighting this war? Kids from small town in Texas, and Nebraska, and Bronx. Let's all wait for the day when there is a press conference with Prez telling us all how proud he is of his two never-stop-partying daughters have joined up to serve in Iraq.

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» What class of folks is that? Posted by: sarjint
» What? Posted by: Michiganman
How did Saddam commit all those atrocities, anyway?
Posted by: ecr111 on Aug 7, 2005 11:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's not forget where he got his weapons and funding from - conservative "heroes" like Reagan, Bush I, and Rumsfeld. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be having a conversation about this right now. The Reagan/Bush administration supported Saddam right through his worst atrocities in the 1980s. It wasn't until he threatened our interests in Kuwait, that all of a sudden he became an enemy.

It makes sense. Arm the enemy, then invade and disarm them. Who benefits from this? The defense contractors who financially support Republican candidates. And so it comes round full circle.

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» Another circle Posted by: Sojourner
Hi There should just think.
Posted by: David In The Midwest on Aug 7, 2005 11:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First. It does not matter who bin Laden "endorsed" for President or why? Or, if it does, please "Hi there," explain it in details.
Second. bin Laden is still on the loose. At least Kerry knows how to get the bad guys. He was the only one of the candidates who went to war, jumped out of a boat, and shot and killed the enemy.
Third, and this is really important, there were no connections between terrorists and Iraq at all, ever substantiated by anyone, before we went to war there. Saddam was a fully-in-control dictator and would not allow them. If he was a terrorist, then we should have had evidence before going to war. If you disagree, please explain.

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» RE: Hi There should just think. Posted by: smidget2k4
» RE: Hi There should just think. Posted by: Michiganman
» David Posted by: blackavenger2
» RE: David Posted by: Pepper
» RE: David Posted by: blackavenger3
Manipulated?
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 7, 2005 11:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I found I was crying not so much for the senseless loss of a young life, or even the grief our friends would bear. As I thought about it, I was crying for our country. What have we come to?" -C.C.

Indeed.

Consider the passionate energy wasted by gut-reactionaries unwilling to examine the absurd and demand an accounting.

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Let's discuss the REAL issue
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 7, 2005 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oops. Sorry. I guess it's not absurd to suggest NORAD had no way to defend NYC and Washington the morning of 9/11.

Fact of the matter is, all discussion of the legitimacy of our involvement in Iraq is just a diversion that very much benefits the neo-cons and their goose-stepping partisans.

What's the point of having the greatest military preparedness the world has ever seen if it can't intercept a ragtag bunch of cave-dwellers half a world away?

Because "ragheads" didn't do it.

According to NORAD"s own timetable, jets sent from Otis and Langly flew at approximately 25% top speed and failed to intercept any attacking planes. Why was that, armchair generals?

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» RE: Let's discuss the REAL issue Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: Let's discuss the REAL issue Posted by: rockpicker
They're Doing It Again!
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 7, 2005 7:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A while ago there were 78 comments. Now there are 71. Screw this manipulation. And shame on you. How dare you erase our comments? Now, we can't even trust Alternet. Great job!

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» Hate to lose you, Rocky Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Hate to lose you, Rocky Posted by: Michiganman
» I meant it sincerely. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: I meant it sincerely. Posted by: Michiganman
Jeez! I thought you guys left.
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 7, 2005 9:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think outside the envelope. NORAD is competence. It is the very definition of the word. There was no mistake. There was no intelligence failure, no communications lag. NORAD responded when it was good and ready, and it responded in a carefully rehearsed manner. BTW, no one is allowed to interview the pilots who flew those missions. So keep asking questions, and stop presuming that your leaders speak the truth. Make them explain ALL the details so that at least part of the story makes sense, because the official line is full of holes.

You know, when Hitler wanted to attack Poland, he dressed up SS soldiers in Polish uniforms and had them wipe out a German border garrison, providing a convenient premise for war. It's not a new idea. We're just naive.

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Pack up your money, put up your tent McGuinn...
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 7, 2005 10:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go in peace, my ass. I liked your objection to Ibrahim's comment. 100,000 Iraqis are not just offended, they're dead. And you want everyone to be nice nice. Seems like if that reality were real to you, not on an acedemic level, but on par with the reality Ibrahim deals with, you'd be hard-pressed to control your passion.

How would you feel if there were foreign troops patrolling the streets of your town, killing your people and setting up permanent bases? You would do what I would do, without regret. Regardless what the foreign press calls you.

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xenacat
Posted by: xenacat on Aug 8, 2005 5:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, If Ibirihim was a right wing plant, he has succeded brillantly in taking the discussion off course. That the right wingers are jamming BBs like this one is a given. Suppression of free speech by any means - including disruption - is a basic tool of totalitarian regimes. I rather suspect that intense discussions of NORAD and Iraqi miltants are just distractions.

This death of a small town boy from Texas is rooted in the heart of our acceptance of our own cultural violence. This war could not have happened if we did not tolerate the behaviors that spring from this acceptance of hate. This is what we should be examining here in this discussion.

The point is that the right is adroit at exploiting the climate of hatred. As long as we buy into that hatred, we propetuate it. The life of this young man should be grieved. If anything comes of this loss, it should be a soul searching that rejects all the war mongering. The rest is just a tangent.

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» RE: xenacat Posted by: Michiganman
He he
Posted by: blackavenger3 on Aug 8, 2005 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do you libs feel that Osama Bin laden endorsed John Kerry for president? Could it be that he knows that liberals are soft on crime and terror?We all know that terrorists would vote democrat if they had the opportunity.

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» RE: He he Posted by: Pepper
» RE: He he Posted by: blackavenger3
» RE: He he Posted by: Pepper
» RE: He he Posted by: Duffy59
» RE: He he Posted by: blackavenger3
» RE: He he Posted by: Envi
» Envi Posted by: blackavenger3
e pluribus unum
Posted by: 42Years on Aug 8, 2005 7:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was born in May 1945. Imagine if you can the celebration our country was soon to experience at the end of WWII after dropping the Atomic Bomb on hundreds of thousands of civilians in two Japanese cities. VJ Day! For 60 years I have listened to calls for peace and seen the destruction of war. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

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» RE: e pluribus unum Posted by: orazor
» RE: e pluribus unum Posted by: Sojourner
GRAVE
Posted by: orazor on Aug 8, 2005 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism -- Let's change the word struggle to resistance; makes a better acronym.

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» RE: GRAVE Posted by: Kajamian
LaVieja
Posted by: LaVieja on Aug 8, 2005 9:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Mr. Christensen:

I will have to absorb your thoughtful article later but, after glancing through the comments, I must communicate to you that the right-wingers in the AlterNet mix today are certainly agitated. You should take that as a compliment; for the last couple of decades they have been strident, simplistic, illogical and in every post liberally (hah!) dosed with overheated rhetoric (of which they accuse us lefties), which means you have struck a nerve - pushed them outside their comfort zone. The Wizard will soon have to exit his curtain and admit he's nothing but a blowhard.

Be encouraged; it's taking a very long time but you're getting through and telling the truth!

Hang in there!

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» RE: LaVieja Posted by: blackavenger3
Cindy Sheehan update?
Posted by: mendomama on Aug 8, 2005 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is anyone else having any trouble pulling up new information about Cindy Sheehan in Crawford? I can't seem to pull up www.afterdowningstreet.org , I finally managed to pull up daily kos, and then couldn't access the comments on the articles pertaining to Cindy Sheehan. Oh, I can look at CNN, etc., but can't seem to access my usual sites. I even tried Conyers' Blog, but couldn't pull up the comments there, either. Is this happening to anyone else? Anyone have an update from this morning?

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» RE: Cindy Sheehan update? Posted by: namaste
» RE: Cindy Sheehan update? Posted by: PECKERWOOD
Back to the subject . . . .
Posted by: namaste on Aug 8, 2005 9:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any life taken in violence is a tragedy.

I am a mother of two children old enough to be drafted or enlist. I have taught my children from day one that violence in any form is wrong – that killing and maiming another is a crime no matter how it is carried out.

Perhaps we as parents, family, friends, and neighbors, should stop blaming the media, video games, the armed forces recruiters, etc. and teach our children right and wrong:

There is NO reason to take another’s life [period]

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Draft the SUV drivers!
Posted by: Pooty T on Aug 8, 2005 1:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Potential draft dodgers should start making contingency plans. Think hard about where you're going to go and how you'll get there, or whether you'd rather go to jail. The time is nigh. We're one more staged attack away from Iran, Syria, Khazakstan, etc.

It'll happen before 2008.

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Re. A young man dies in Iraq
Posted by: willymack on Aug 8, 2005 1:46 PM   
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I couldn't agree more strongly with this article.The kid was set up by a mountain of dirty lies and a crying need to conform to what he thought was the "right thing to do". We still have far too many people in this country who take the "president" at his word without bothering-even for a second- to check out his blatherings against the TRUTH, believing that since he's the president, he always tells the truth. The fact is (as painful and upsetting as it may be), that the Bush gang are a pack of lying scumbags, undeserving of anyone's respect or support.

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...the carpet, too, is moving under you...
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 8, 2005 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it's all over now, Baby Blue!!

BUSH AND CHENEY INDICTED

www.stewwebb.com

www.tomflocco.com

BUSH AND CHENEY INDICTED

A Chicago grand jury has indicted the President and Vice-President of the United States along with multiple high officials in the Bush administration

Chicago -- August 2, 2005 -- TomFlocco.com -- U.S. federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's Chicago grand jury has issued perjury and obstruction of justice indictments to the following members of the Bush Administration: President George W. Bush, Vice-President Richard Cheney, Bush Chief of Staff Andrew Card, Cheney Chief of Staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, former Attorney General John Ashcroft, imprisoned New York Times reporter Judith Miller and former Senior Cheney advisor Mary Matalin.

There were no indications given as to whether the President and his top staff members would appear publicly before cameras at the grand jury proceedings, given the gravity of the charges.

Besides the Valerie Plame CIA leak case, the Fitzgerald probe is reportedly far-reaching and expanding much deeper into past White House criminal acts involving Bush-Clinton drug money laundering in Mena, Arkansas to White House involvement in 9.11; but also for sending America's young people to their deaths or to be maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan under false pretenses...

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» Some Skepticism Needed Posted by: raian_sumisu
» RE: Some Skepticism Needed Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: Some Skepticism Needed Posted by: Pooty T
Baptist Bomb-Droppers
Posted by: pjrsullivan on Aug 8, 2005 3:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The young man, now deceased, was raised as a Baptist, and they did raise him well. The churches have a duty to foster mindless behavior, which translates into, "Makes the slobs easier to jerk around."

The kids head from childhood was filled with a bunch of shit about a gang of asswholes running around the desert trying to rob and murder and eat their neighbor, no wonder he could be set up to become on of the cannon fodder kids.

When we oust our murdering Bankster and the corporate, political criminal class, we need also to debunk the enormous amount of holy shit with it. If you listen to the barn yard hucksters on TV, you may note that several have put forward the party line that the nimbicile in the White House was doing "Gods" work.

The reason churches are tax free is to use our money to support our own oppression. Taking our wealth to fund the bombastic gang of holy frauds that parade before us is also a taking of labor, as labor creates all wealth. The forced taking of labor is slavery. Here in the modern world we still have a ole Master and his Bastards running the plantation. Hoping against hope that they can nuke us all before we figure it out.

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A man goes to war and.....
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Aug 8, 2005 4:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was another story of a young man who had an idea: To go to a far away place where few Americans go and kill people. Little did he know that the enemy would shoot back to defend itself.
Was this made clear in any Army brochure?
However, the author's point was that Christopher, his subject, was trained to kill (hate) in his youth, and this is what is troubling American society.
Our government 's prejudice and arrogance is on full display. We're simply a violent people which is filtered down to every level of American life.
Road rage shootings on Los Angeles freeways defies logic, turining it into a deadly sport; no one knows why it happens. Drive-by shootings occur nearly everywhere.
Not to mention there's also domestic abuse, violence against women and children; and violence in sports.
America was borne from revolution. Now I guess violence will be the way to change it once more.

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Revising History
Posted by: Ghost on Aug 8, 2005 5:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you understand that 5700 Kurds--men, women, babies, grandmothers--REAL PEOPLE WHO WERE IN REFUGE--died convulsing on the ground?

There's still dispute who attacked the Kurds, whether it was Iran or Iraq, it most likely was done with American sent chemical agents.

"Yoyr mistake is in SUPPORTING terror instead"

The fanatical Aghan mudjaheddin was unconditionally backed by the BushI(Reagan) White House.
Throughout the 1980s Iraq's WMD capabilities were built up and progressed with US support, the country was a terrorist sponsor, something the White House overlooked as it funded Hussein throughout the decade.
Noriega in Panama was an asset in the neocons original "war on terror" even if his country was a criminal enterprise for drug running and gun shipments.
Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan where did that illicit foreign policy, guided by Republicans, eventually lead the US?

"Liberals are corrupt, not conservatives"

Watergate
Iran Contra
Iraqgate
Arming Afghan Mudjaheddin
S&L Scandal
BCCI
Enron/Halliburton/Bechtel/Carlyle

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HAS BUSH MOVED TO FIRE FITZPATRICK?
Posted by: rockpicker on Aug 8, 2005 7:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.citizenspook.blogspot.com/

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budnell
Posted by: Budnell on Aug 9, 2005 7:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can remember how much I hated the draft for Vietnam. I had at that time 2 strong sons. Both received deferment because I could keep them in college and both were not drafted. Other Mothers were not able and unfortunate their sons went and died...Why do our politians feel we must fight all over the world - no good reason.. WE must now teach our children that we only bear arms for this country only,in this country only.

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‘The SOLDIER and The NEOCON-MAN’
Posted by: qu on Aug 10, 2005 6:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a soldier.
I was your hero.
I protected You against terror,
from a never to be known enemy;
supposedly, trying to kill us.

I had to go to war,
while You stayed home.
I fought valiantly,
while You were afraid and relieved.
I got traumatized, injured, or killed;
while You got peace of mind (or did You)?

You made money for those who own You.
You played big brother to an ancient evil, and protected them.
You supported oppressive regimes in the Middle East.
You tried to switch people’s souls,
by saving them from nothing.
You covered up the mistakes of Your father.
You lied all along the way, cause You had to have it Your way.
You found nothing You looked for.
You distracted, deceived, and tried to save face.
You were once born again,
while others will continue to die for Your sins.

You accomplished nothing!
You resolved nothing!
Nothing worth while will ever come out of Your mistakes!
You will be exposed, before this is over.
The truth will be heard.
You are nothing, Neocon-Man. Nothing.

Your gain. My pain.
The Haves, versus the Have-Nots.
One gets. One gives.
What a price I had to pay,
for Your ego and greed.

Copyright 2005 by Qcontent. All rights reserved.

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the problem is larger than Christopher
Posted by: bumpy on Aug 10, 2005 1:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for the letter Chris. This is exactly what's happening all over the country; unfortunately, it's too little, too late. Isn't this a sign of the myriad problems of our society as a whole if a "good" young man can so easily be blindly led to cause destruction? Why do all these young men and women lack the moral fortitude necessary to resist being pawns in someone else's political game? This is a symptom of a much larger disease in our society, and unless it's not addressed, our life as we know it is doomed to eventually fail.

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