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Talk To Action / By Chris Rodda
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10 Ways the U.S. Military Has Shoved Christianity Down Muslims' Throats

It's not just private religious organizations that act like Christian crusaders.
September 23, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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The Military Religious Freedom Foundation was founded in 2005 by Mikey Weinstein, a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate and Reagan administration White House counsel, after the harassment his own sons faced as Jewish cadets at the academy led him to discover that the fundamentalist Christian takeover of the Air Force Academy was far from an isolated problem.

It was a militarywide issue that needed to be confronted head on. But it quickly became apparent that MRFF's initial mission of protecting the rights of our men and women in uniform was only addressing part of the problem.

The evangelizing and proselytizing of Iraqi and Afghan Muslims by private religious organizations and U.S. military personnel also had to be exposed and stopped -- particularly the materials and media available via the Internet and television that could be used by Islamic extremists as propaganda for recruiting purposes.

When MRFF began exposing some of what we were finding on the Internet, Weinstein was contacted by two Bush administration national security officials, one civilian and one military, who confirmed that the kind of stuff we were exposing was, in fact, being used as fodder for propaganda, and they urged him to not stop what MRFF was doing.

The most astounding thing, as you'll see in the list below, is that it's not the private religious organizations that are most at fault in spreading the crusader message, but the U.S. military.

Top Ten Ways to Convince the Muslims We're On a Crusade

10. Have top U.S. military officers, Defense Department officials and politicians say we're in a religious war.

As many will remember, we couldn't have gotten off to a better start on winning hearts and minds when Lt. Gen. William "Jerry" Boykin, on his speaking tour of churches in 2003, publicly and in uniform proclaimed that the so-called war on terror was really a fight between Satan and Christians.

He made comments like, "We in the Army of God, in the House of God, the Kingdom of God have been raised for such a time as this," saying that George W. Bush, who had ignorantly called the war a crusade, was "in the White House because God put him there," and referring to the capture of Somali warlord Osman Atto, said, "I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol."

Speaking at a Rotary Club meeting in his hometown of Concord, N.C., in December 2006, one of Boykin's supporters, former Rep. Robin Hayes, R-N.C., pronounced that stability in Iraq ultimately depended on "spreading the message of Jesus Christ, the message of peace on earth, good will towards men. ... Everything depends on everyone learning about the birth of the savior."

While few are as overt in their comments as Boykin and Hayes, plenty of other representatives of our government have made it clear that they view the United States as a Christian nation and the war on terror as a spiritual battle, promoting the specious notion that victory in Iraq and Afghanistan is somehow necessary to preserve our own religious freedom here in America.

Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., in his remarks on the passage of H.R. 847, a 2007 resolution "recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith,'' said that "... American men and women in uniform are fighting a battle across the world so that all Americans might continue to freely exercise their faith ..."

The most recent Secretary of the Army, Pete Geren, in his commencement address at last year's West Point graduation, invoked the words of Thomas Jefferson, saying that Jefferson would understand the threat we face today -- tyranny in the name of religion. Geren quoted a few words from Jefferson's Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, and then he said: "Two hundred years after Thomas Jefferson penned these words, your sons and daughters are fighting to protect our citizens and people around the world from zealots who would restrain, molest, burden and cause to suffer those who do not share their religious beliefs, deny us, whom they call infidels, our unalienable rights -- life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Neither Franks or Geren, nor anyone else who has suggested the war in Iraq is essential to the protection of the religious freedom of "our citizens," has offered any explanation of how the outcome of this war could possibly affect the free exercise of religion by Americans.

While none were as widely publicized as those of Boykin, all of these statements, and many others like them, can easily be found on the Internet. Hayes' Rotary Club meeting remarks, for example, after being published in a few North Carolina newspapers, were reported on the blog B, and quickly spread through the blogosphere, turning a speech at a local Rotary Club meeting into a national story.

Retired Air Force Lt. Col. Rick Francona, when asked on MSNBC, "What's your reaction when you hear those words coming from a congressman," explained why comments like these were such a problem:

"Well, it's not helpful if this stuff gets back to the Iraqis, and of course in the days of the Internet and the blogosphere out there it's likely that it could. And you know our troops have enough problems over there just doing their jobs. Having to defend what a U.S. congressman might say, because you know, when you bring up the idea of proselytizing Christianity, to a lot of Muslims, that's very offensive. And if we can keep religion out of what we're trying to do over there, which is very difficult, it would be a lot easier for our troops. ... When you've got a congressman saying that the country -- they're not going to solve their problems until they follow the ways of the savior, it becomes very difficult for the troops to defend those remarks. ... If you're trying to be a unit trainer to, say, an Iraqi battalion, and the battalion religious adviser, the imam, would come in and say look what a congressman said, it just takes away from what we're trying to do." 


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The U.S.A. is a Christian nation?
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Posted by: drfun on Sep 24, 2009 1:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's take a look at the "Family Values" the GOP display. There is Ronald Reagan, who is accused by first wife of "Extreme Mental Cruelty" to marry a 3 month pregnant Nancy.

Newt Gingrich serves his first wife with divorce papers while recovering from cancer in the hospital. Now on wife #3 and received annulments from his past marriages with a recent religious conversion to Catholicism.

Along with the multiple marriage infidelities of Henry Hyde, Bob Barr, John McCain, John Ensign, John Livingston and many others.

Or the perverted Congressional Page sex scandle of Mark Foley and the bathroom escapees of Larry Craig. Pre-martial sex resulting in pregnancy Sarah Palin who has her daughter do the premarital sex resulting in getting knocked up, but can't seem to want to follow though on the marriage part.

If this is how the public GOP leadership behaves in its private life, then is it any surprise as to why the situation the U.S.A. finds itself presently.

Or why the U.S.A. has the government it deserves from these representative scum mentioned above?

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» But they did not run... Posted by: djnoll
» RE: But they did not run... Posted by: websurfer
» RE: But they did not run... Posted by: Caliban
» religious pollution Posted by: masthead

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Never Really Understood Religion
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Posted by: Lese Majeste on Sep 24, 2009 2:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..your sons and daughters are fighting to protect our citizens and people around the world from zealots who would restrain, molest, burden and cause to suffer those who do not share their religious beliefs, deny us, whom they call infidels, our unalienable rights -- life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

But when it's our military doing the restraining, molesting and causing the suffering, then it's OK?

I'm really at a loss to understand why we do so much fighting over religion.

Three of the world's biggest religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism more or less worship the same god.

They all worship and praise the prophet Abraham, why, I don't know. This is the guy that was ready to slit his son's throat all because he heard voices in his head. (Several thousand years later, another homicidal maniac heard voices in his head that told him to 'smite Saddam.' We murdered him, wrecked Iraq and killed a million or more Iraqi's in the process.)

Two of these religions acknowledge and worship Jesus Christ. Christians as a savior and Son of God and Muslims as a prophet... which he was until the Council of Nicaea in 325 of church elders changed JC's status from a prophet to the Son of God.

Judaism states that JC is some kind of demon that is sitting in a pit of excrement for all eternity and that his mother was a whore.

So why all the fighting? Or is one religious group bent on getting the other two to fight to the death so they can swoop in and pick up the spoils?

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» RE: why all the fighting? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Oh Gaaaawd. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Lying again, Crazy H? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Lying again, Crazy H? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Lying again, Crazy H? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Lying again, Crazy H? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: That's not proof, THIS is proof! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» The Conspiranoid Song! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» Lying again, Preparation H? Posted by: GuitarBill
» Sing Along with Consipiranoid! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» RE: LIAR! CONSPIRANOID! STRAW MAN! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» RE: Oh Gaaaawd. Posted by: Crazy H
» Prevaricating again, Crazy H? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Prevaricating again, Crazy H? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "truthers" are also against DU Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Prevaricating again! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» The Conspiranoid song! Posted by: GuitarBill on

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If there was no religion
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Sep 24, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mankind would find some other reason to kill each other. As it stands at present religion is the only way "Patriarchs" can control the females of the world, the females who unlike Muslim mothers wish their children safety, security, health, education, and most of all love.Sadly Muslim women wish to see their children blow themselves up killing "infidels"!!!!Like the one woman who has literally sent three of her sons to death by bombs attached to their bodies, how sick is that???

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» RE: If there were no 'christians'... Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» ONLY ONE BIG DIFFERENCE Posted by: americansheep
» RE: If there was no religion Posted by: Lese Majeste
» RE: If there was no religion Posted by: donoharm

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Christians?
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 24, 2009 3:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blessed are the peace makers
For they shall be called sons of God

Do they even have a remedial understanding of what Jesus was all about?

Kinda makes ya wonder, doesn't it?

Rabid Blue Dogs

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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I'll break it down for you
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Posted by: snotnosedkid on Sep 24, 2009 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you suggest that no one else has the balls to explain how this war will protect your religious freedom, I'll break it down for you.

While Christians may view you as a lost soul and try to help you find God, muslims view every last one of us as infidels. Whether Christian or not. And a muslim views an infidel the same way that Hitler viewed a Jew. If muslims had their way every non-muslim "infidel" would be slaughtered for the grace of allah. So take the wool away from your eyes and thank God or whoever you worship that there are men and women in this country who are willing to stand up and fight for your religious freedom.

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» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: PatrickMorcillo
» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: Malamute
» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
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» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: Lese Majeste
» RE: Your memory fades too Posted by: snotnosedkid
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» RE: Wow, someone got it, but.. Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: I'll break it down for you Posted by: Malamute
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this country wasn't founded by Christians (part 1)
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 24, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1787 when the framers excluded all mention of God from the Constitution, they were widely denounced as immoral and the document was denounced as godless, which is precisely what it is. Opponents of the Constitution challenged ratifying conventions in nearly every state, calling attention to Article VI, Section 3: “No religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

An anti-federalist in North Carolina wrote: “The exclusion of religious tests is by many thought dangerous and impolitic. Pagans, Deists and Mohammedans might obtain office among us.” Amos Singletary of Massachussetts, one of the most outspoken critics of the Constitution, said that he “hoped to see Christians (in power), yet by the Constitution, a papist or an infidel was as eligible as they.”

Luther Martin, a Maryland delegate to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 wrote that “there were some members so unfashionable as to think that a belief in the existence of a Deity, and of a state of future rewards and punishments would be some security for the good conduct of our rulers, and that in a Christian country, it would be at least decent to hold out some distinction between the professors of Christianity and downright infidelity or paganism.” Martin’s report shows that a “Christian nation” faction had its say during the convention, and that its views were consciously rejected.

The United States Constitution is a completely secular political document. It begins “We the people,” and contains no mention of “God,” “Jesus,” or “Christianity.” Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as the “no religious test” clause (Article VI), and “Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” (First Amendment)

The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase “so help me God” or any requirement to swear on a Bible (Article II, Section 1). The words “under God” did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, inserted them.

Similarly, “In God we Trust” was absent from paper currency before 1956, though it did appear on some coins beginning in 1864. The original U.S. motto, written by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, is “E Pluribus Unum” (“Of Many, One”) celebrating plurality and diversity.

In 1797, America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington’s presidency and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

We are not governed by the Declaration of Independence. Its purpose was to “dissolve the political bonds,” not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based upon the idea that “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,” which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. The Declaration deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, etc., and doesn’t discuss religion at all. The references to “Nature’s God,” “Creator,” and “Divine Providence” in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Its author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist, opposed to Christianity and the supernatural.

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this country wasn't founded by Christians (part 2)
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 24, 2009 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me so pure as that of Jesus,” wrote Thomas Jefferson. However, Jefferson admitted, “In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man and that other parts are the fabric of very inferior minds...” It was Thomas Jefferson who established the separation of church and state. Jefferson was deeply suspicious of religion and of clergy wielding political power.

Jefferson helped create the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in 1786, incurring the wrath of Christians by his fervent defense of toleration of atheists: “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others. But it does no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Jefferson advocated a “wall of separation” between church and state not to protect the church from government intrusion, but to preserve the freedom of the people:

“I consider the doctrines of Jesus as delivered by himself to contain the outlines of the sublimest morality that has ever been taught;” he observed, “but I hold in the most profound detestation and execration the corruptions of it which have been invested by priestcraft and established by kingcraft, constituting a conspiracy of church and state against the civil and religious liberties of mankind.”

Jefferson and the founding fathers were products of the Age of Enlightenment. Their world view was based upon Deism, secularism, and rationalism.

“The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight,” wrote Jefferson. “The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter...we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this...”

As late as 1820, Jefferson was convinced everyone in the United States would die a Unitarian. Jefferson, Madison and Paine’s writings indicate that America was never intended to be a Christian theocracy. “I have sworn upon the altar of God,” wrote Jefferson, “eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

In his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Jefferson wrote: “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

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» RE: Jefferson? Oh, yeah - Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Jefferson? Oh, yeah - Posted by: Crazy H

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this country wasn't founded by Christians (part 3)
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 24, 2009 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Similarly, in an 1824 letter to John Cartwright, Jefferson expressed anger at judges who had based rulings on their belief that Christianity is part of the common law. Cartwright had written a book critical of these judges, and Jefferson was glad to see it. Observed Jefferson, “The proof of the contrary, which you have produced, is controvertible; to wit, that the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced, or knew that such a character had ever existed.” Jefferson challenged “the best-read lawyer to produce another script of authority for this judicial forgery” and concluded, “What a conspiracy this, between Church and State!”

As president, Jefferson put his “wall of separation” theory into practice. He refused to issue proclamations calling for days of prayer and fasting, insisting that they violate the First Amendment. As early as 1779, Jefferson proposed a bill before the Virginia legislature that would have established a series of elementary schools to teach the basics—reading, writing, and arithmetic. Jefferson even suggested that “no religious reading, instruction, or exercise shall be prescribed or practiced, inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination.” Jefferson did not regard public schools as the proper agent to form children’s religious views.

As president, James Madison also put his separationist philosophy into action. He vetoed two bills he believed would violate church-state separation. The first was an act incorporating the Episcopal Church in the District of Columbia that gave the church the authority to care for the poor. The second was a proposed land grant to a Baptist church in Mississippi. Had Madison, the father of the Constitution, believed that all the First Amendment was intended to do was bar setting up a state church, he would have approved these bills. Instead, he vetoed both, and in his veto messages to Congress explicitly stated that he was rejecting the bills because they violated the First Amendment.

Later in his life, James Madison came out against state-paid chaplains, writing, “The establishment of the chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles.” He also concluded that his calling for days of prayer and fasting during his presidency had been unconstitutional.

In an 1819 letter to Robert Walsh, Madison wrote, “the number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the state.” In an undated essay called the “Detached Memoranda,” written in the early 1800s, Madison wrote, “Strongly guarded...is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States.”

In 1833 Madison responded to a letter sent to him by Jasper Adams. Adams had written a pamphlet titled “The Relations of Christianity to Civil Government in the United States,” which tried to prove that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. Madison wrote back: “In the papal system, government and religion are in a manner consolidated, and that is found to be the worst of government.”

Madison, like Jefferson, was confident that separation of church and state would protect both the institutions of government and religion. Late in his life, Madison wrote to a Lutheran minister about this, declaring, “A due distinction...between what is due to Caesar and what is due to God, best promotes the discharge of both obligations...A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity.”

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» Excellent posts - thank you. Posted by: thekidde
» Thank you, vasumurti. Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Thank you, vasumurti. Posted by: donoharm
» Kudos Posted by: pbutler

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Appease Muslim Chauvinism? Why?
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Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Sep 24, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Western countries have religious and philosphical freedom.

The big problem with Muslim countries is they don't have either, or if they do, it is on paper only and one takes ones life in ones hands to practice religious and philosophical freedom.

The West has already evolved away from religious authoritarianism. So must Islam. Let's start by NOT APPEASING Muslim religious authoritarianism.

I say, wave crosses and Bibles in their face if you are so inclined. . . . or free-thinking atheist text.

Political Islam is an embarassing blot on the world.

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» RE: Appease Muslim Chauvinism? Why? Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» As is political christianity. Posted by: thekidde

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Before Israel, Islam was of little concern to America
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Posted by: weathered on Sep 24, 2009 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why is this now our problem?

See this link w/Israel for exactly what it is, a toxic bribe.
Extortion very carefully dressed-up w/all the phony and fraudulent energy of a hollywood production - and all at our immense expense.

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Maybe I've been misjudging Obama?
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Posted by: luther6 on Sep 24, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here I thought he was a two-faced liar about ending the war(s) and stopping torture etc. Turns out they must have told him he'll be President for about 5 minutes after he doesn't send more troops to Afghanistan. Which general or admiral will lead the coup do you think? Or will they just start a theocracy? Obama's not so much a sleazy lying politician. He's just a wuss who won't fight for the Constitution he swore to uphold.

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» RE: Maybe I've been misjudging Obama? Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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Lay off it for a while
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Posted by: rcase on Sep 24, 2009 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AlterNet goes on and on with its anti-Christian obsessions. There is a military war being fought but behind it is an ideological war. The Muslims understand this. Sanuel P. Huntington (The Clash of Civilizations and the Making of the World Order)understands this. Who knows what the AlterNet types understand. For many Muslims(certainly not all)the end goal is to impose Islam on the world. That is, to "impose" Islam on the world. Christians believe that all things are to be united in Christ, but that all persons are to be respected and nothing is to be imposed. The AlterNet types are not in a tirade about the military today. They are in a tirade about American history. Their world would be a secular world, duly imposed also by secular education and the forbidding of religion (of any type) to operate in the public square.

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» RE: Lay off it for a while Posted by: americancontragenic

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The Horrible Hairy History of Islam
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Posted by: tlwinslow on Sep 24, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, when it comes to Islam everybody who isn't Muslim is always at war with them, and they started it, sorry, there's no escape, it's like the Terminator.

Westerners are history ignoramuses when it comes to Islam, softening them up for disinformation, especially the "religion of peace" baloney.

Check out my History of Islam for History Ignoramuses and arm yourself with some knowledge. It's free.

http://go.to/islamhistory

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» RE: The Horrible Hairy History of Islam Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Ain't the All Volunteer Force great??!!
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Sep 24, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yessir, folks! The All Volunteer Force, that post-Vietnam offspring of the illicit fornacation of the anti-war movement and Richard Nixon and midwifed by "free-market Jesus" Milton J. Friedman, is a wonder to behold! Isn't it?

Yessiree, this little monster was intended to prevent future presidents from acts of military adventurism or meddling in conflicts which had little bearing on US security interests.

And remember, folks, these kids in uniform are there because they want to be there!

Yep, the All Volunteer Force is no longer a patriotic duty, it's a job!

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peace is tolerance
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Posted by: pirjan on Sep 24, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Lakum din kum Wal yu din". To you be your faith to me mine. AlQuran. "You do not go to paradise because you are Muslim Christian Jew but for your deeds". Alquran

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» Best post Posted by: weathered

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"It's in God's hands now"
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Posted by: misencikjc on Sep 24, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reminds me of a time just before leaving for OIF II. Some contractor came in to chastise the Marines for not having armored doors on the humvees. Some officers in the room explained that we needed to be able to see out and wave at kids and other nonsense. The contractor, a bit shocked at the ignorance attempted to argue at which point he was shut up by the thundering pronouncement from some colonel that the discussion is over because "It's in God's hands now."

Great. Just f#$king great. The lesson here is that whenever you can't have a reasonable conversation, just defer to a symbol of mass delusion. Awesome.

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Accept the Prince of Peace or I'll kill you
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Posted by: Crazy H on Sep 24, 2009 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Continuing the fine tradition of spreading the gospel of love at the point of a sword.

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» What was that Preparation H? Posted by: GuitarBill

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WE ARE NOT A THEOCRACY
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 24, 2009 9:40 AM   
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The Muslim countries have their religion ingrained into every facet of their lives. that's the way it's been for a very long time. It only stands to reason that it is part of their motive to wage war or to protect themselves. We, on the other hand get to choose a religion or take a pass on it altogether. While I can picture the Founding Fathers, I believe we've come a long way since 1620. The constant reminders of who they were and what they believed is an important part of our history. It is not our rule book. We have evolved into a diverse nation. We can't be expected to design our lives around the way the 'founding fathers' lived. We can't be expected to join forces in some cultish way and become a huge Christian Force to be reckoned with. The Muslims have always been the way they are and like the rest of the world most of them are OK people. The current effort to unite us for some religious cause is offensive to me. I have a religion and they aren't big on killing. This is also America. Religion is optional. I like it that way. ANNA

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» You know this how? Posted by: dkm

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Who are the real terrorists and? Who are insulting Christianity?
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Posted by: hilaryuk on Sep 24, 2009 9:46 AM   
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Terrorism must mean the spreading of terror. Avowedly Christian Americans have done that on an industrial scale - dwarfing the horrors of 9/11 - in two Islamic countries.

Jesus preached, above all else, that God is love. He never advocated violence, he never suggested that faith could be inculcated by means of violence. So these avowedly and aggressively "Christian" soldiers are self-evidently betraying their Messiah and wilfully misunderstanding his central message.

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The Antithesis of Christs Life & message...aka Satanists
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 24, 2009 9:57 AM   
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Really whocan these equate their 'crusade' with Christ, who never brandished a weapon, never recurited Soldiers and never attempted to mount an Army. No tduring his Life, nor according to St John upon his Second Coming. A True Christian Knows, and reveres the Fact that Christ wins the 'Final Battle' by merely speaking The Word.
It was the Romans who brandished weapons, had soildiers and commanded Armies. It is Satan who is so weak that he requires the assistance of blood thristy Armies, and still loses.
Christ did not even go door to door spreading his message- he stood in the open and allowed people to come to him....Or for that matter walk away.
It is not Chrisitanity if it is at the point of a gun. That's not just heresy, it's Satanic.
Christianity is a perfectly good religious philosphy- When practice correctly.As is Islam and Judeism when followed as they were intended.

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USA, Christian Nation, and "Family Values".......
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 24, 2009 10:27 AM   
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There is, has been, and continues to be more killing by humanity in the name of "Religion" throughout the millinea! I realize that Americans hate to remember history but does no one remember: The Inquisition, The Crusades, the European Pogroms, the slaughter of the Native Nations under "American" expansion to the west, Bosnia-Slovenia, I could go on, and on, and on - but I think you get the point!

The truth is man in his unquenchable thirst to "control other" is continuously fighting his fellow man! They can call it "spreading freedom", "keeping democracy safe", "fighting terrorism", whatever - in the end it is about one man or group dominating another and for what?!

If people really believed in those books Bible/Koran/Torah that they continue to thump on, they would actually practice in their lives those tenets of: Loving your neighbor, Treating others as you want to be treated, Laws against Usury, Loving G-d with all of your heart, Do Not Lie-Cheat-Steal, Honor your Parents, etc., before they come messing around in my bedroom or doctors office (I might have more respect for them if they did)! Until then, YOU LIE now go- shut up, sit down on that mountaintop, and wait for your SAVIOR to come and take you away! Or wait, maybe your SAVIOR has already come, and you've been LEFT BEHIND, in which case, WELCOME TO HELL!

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We were founded on the principle of religious freedom..
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Posted by: djnoll on Sep 24, 2009 11:26 AM   
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from the Pilgrims and the Puritans to our Founding Fathers. We have an entire military and political system that seems to have taken on this Crusader-mentality, fostered by the former administrations and their debt to the Religious Right movement which seems to hold that Might is Right and nothing else.

We are a nation that seems to have become hellbent on tearing apart the world, militarily, economically, and religiously. We must take back this insanity and stop what we are doing. We need to make our leaders understand this, and we need to do so in great numbers. We must make them see us.

For months now I have encouraged people to do this in their communities, but I realize that this will not be sufficient. So on October 18, 2009, I will leave my home and start a journey across this great nation to Washington, DC. I will stop in a variety of towns and along the way to talk to people and to ask them to join me in one of two ventures:

1. A National March on DC to send a message to all Americans, the President, and Congress that we are not happy with being run by a military-industrial complex that is killing the children of the world, their futures, or our way of life.

2. On a local level, a National Work Strike for one day - November 3, 2009 - to correspond with the March. I am asking people to stop the businesses within their communities, to stop the trucks and trains with freight, to stop unloading at our ports, to stop banking and stock trading for one day, and instead go and stand in front of their town halls, governor's offices, and state legislatures and send the message, peacefully, WE ARE AMERICA - HEAR US ROAR! WE ARE NOT SLAVES - AND YOU WORK FOR US!

I am asking people of all backgrounds, ages, genders, races, religions, and political beliefs to unite on November 3, 2009, and show the world that the vast majority of us are not bigots or racists or political and religious fanatics, but that we are now going to demand better of ourselves, those who lead us, and those corporations who have taken over our government and the world.

Please go to
Let Freedom Ring.Community
to find out more about this.

If we are to put a stop to this kind of religious zealotry in our military, they need to know that we will not tolerate it, and that we are so vast in numbers and common cause that we can stop them and those who would lead us down such a wrong path.

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They are spending our money promoting religion.
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Posted by: shanaza on Sep 24, 2009 12:18 PM   
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Half our taxes go to the bloated / wasteful Department of Offense. That any of it is being used to promote religion is unconstitutional and ethically wrong.

We are paying living expenses for those soldiers; while doing so they are obligated represent this country and should not be allowed to take their religion outside their little chapel. The argument should be about funding and how the funds are used.

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It all come down to just one !
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Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM   
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One God! Wars, crusades whatever they are called are nothing more than a sand box fight over who has the one and only way to worship HIM. Time to put religion into the sandbox and bury it. The Elitists are laughing all the way to the bank. The Elitists want a world FREE of RELIGION so that they can have it all to themselves. With soldiers going off to war like the sheeple they are, the goal is within sight. The Elitists do NOT believe in God so they just sit back manufacturing weapons in hopes of 4 or 5 Billion people kill off each other. So far, good start!!!

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The Conspiranoid Song!
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Posted by: GuitarBill on on Sep 24, 2009 12:27 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conspir annoyed, conspir annoyed,
Conspiranoid all the way.
Con spear annoyed, con spear a noid,
conspiranoid open sleigh.












































'you can trust the government' - Al Qaeda

Online privacy when it counts

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» RE: No, I'm the REAL GuitarBill! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» RE: The Conspiranoid Song! Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Chriss Rodda
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Sep 24, 2009 3:08 PM   
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You wrote:

"The evangelizing and proselytizing of Iraqi and Afghan Muslims by private religious organizations and U.S. military personnel also had to be exposed and stopped -- particularly the materials and media available via the Internet and television that could be used by Islamic extremists as propaganda for recruiting purposes."

So the fact that it may function as a recruiting tool is your only objection? Couldn't you have come up with something deeper, something more empirical, scientific?

How about holding up values and morals that the US espouses, but rarely delivers? Couldn't that have served as the basis for your argument?

How about discussing the hypocrisy of it?

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Reality Is Being Lost – Chris Rodda Apparently Believes In Islam, The facts:
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 24, 2009 3:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reality Is Being Lost – Chris Rodda Apparently Believes In Islam, The facts:

INTRODUCTION:

Chris Rodda said the following with respect to what he called profiling:

[[” And, on the Islamic community in the U.S. and racial profiling:

"We need to see more patriotism and less terrorism, and especially on the part of the Islamic community in this country, who are good at nothing but complaining about every single thing instead of standing up and working with us in fighting the enemy in our country."’ [source - 10 Ways the U.S. Military Has Shoved Christianity Down Muslims' Throats, By Chris Rodda, Talk To Action. Posted September 23, 2009].]]

But reality and common sense dictates that if a white man robs a bank that you do not look at black men as suspects; likewise if members of Islam are involved in terrorism, you do not look at little old Jewish grandmothers as possible suspects. Common sense dictates you look at only those who could possibly be involved. Why look elsewhere?

Just today, an article showed the common sense of only looking at those who might possibly be involved in terrorism:



Of course, this is not an isolated event, but an altogether too common of an event. Obviously, some forget 9/11/2001, but they should not:

For details, go to the following:

[1] linked text

And,

[2] linked text

And,

[3] linked text

And,

[4] linked text


Also, I challenge everyone to show any factual error in what I have said and/or the four articles giving the detail.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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All I can say is "Thank You"!!!
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Posted by: corey on Sep 24, 2009 3:52 PM   
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Thank you for people like Chris Rodda to keep bringing to light the dangers on the fundamentalist Christians in our country.

These fundamentalists make us less safe, and will be the reason for another 9-11.

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faith based initiatives
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Posted by: maxsmart on Sep 24, 2009 4:43 PM   
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There has no doubt been a crescendo of fervor with Bush and the sense of some kind of apocalyptic entitlement. I would expect the faith based initiatives unleashed on our country to be rife with bizarre and unorthodox social programs and social manipulation. Why haven't we heard much about it. It must be thoroughhly investigated.

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CONtradiction
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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Sep 24, 2009 6:28 PM   
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*singing to the tune of hallelujah*
CON tra diction
contradiction
contradiction
CON tra diction
CON TRA DICTION!

New Testament contradicts things in the Old Testament. Vengeful, hate filled god versus an "all loving" god. Old Testament contradicts itself. New Testament contradicts itself. Jesus is a peacemaker and loves everyone. Jesus brings his rejecters to a lake of fire where there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I'm so very tired of the contradictions that religious people simply REFUSE to see. They truly see no contradiction. That's the problem. They see how OTHER PEOPLE might INTERPRET such things as contradictions, but they themselves never really see the contradictions.

Jesus was a peacemaker. Blessed are the peacemakers. Jesus brought not peace but a sword. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Those who do not believe in me, bring them before me and kill them. Turn the other cheek.

I'm sick to my stomach whenever I think about the countless contradictions in Jesus' statements. Even MORE sick to my stomach when you have little "moderate" Christians trying to act tough and bash the fanatics of their faith, by saying that Jesus was this loving, caring figure. HE WASN'T!!! He advocates throwing men women and children into a burning pit for all eternity if they don't believe in him.

The only real message behind the "gentle Jesus, tender and mild," is the "Patience, Monty... climb the ladder," and "Oh, you'll get yours one day, but in the mean time, I'm going to pretend to be nice to you."

The point is that ALL religion is bunk. In the words of Bill Maher, "Religion must die for mankind to survive."

Jew, Christian, Muslim. They're all cut from the same homicidal, homophobic, xenophobic, patriarchal anti-feminist cloth.

All three have an unhealthy obsession with sexuality because it's a taboo concept in their faiths.

All three have violent, bronze-age texts that their followers are expected to live their lives by.

All three have difficulty being tolerant of others. Yes, even the Jews. They went through the horrors of the Holocaust and apparently didn't learn one damned thing, because they arrived in Palestine and started killing off Muslim and Christian Palestinians.

There is no reason that we're in the year 2009 and the entire world is still arguing and fighting and at each others' throats over who is right and who is going to hell.

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» RE: CONtradiction Posted by: Rey Hinckley

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Reality Check – Islam Responsible For All
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 25, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reality Check – Islam Responsible For All

Look at the facts presented daily in the news, such as,

[1] Feds: Suspect hit beauty stores for bomb supplies, By TOM HAYS and DEVLIN BARRETT, Associated Press Writers Tom Hays And Devlin Barrett, Associated Press Writers - 14 mins ago, retrieved from

linked text

on 9/24/2009

NEW YORK - An Afghan immigrant plotted for more than a year to detonate homemade bombs in the United States, had recently bought bomb-making supplies from beauty supply stores and was looking for "urgent" help in the past two weeks to make explosives, an indictment charged Thursday.

[2] Men accused of unrelated bomb plots in Ill., Texas, Associated Press, Friday, September 25, 2009 3:40:31 AM By MIKE ROBINSON, retrieved from
linked text
on 9/25/2009 ]

Two men unconnected to each other or to the investigation that has spawned recent national terrorism warnings are in federal custody after attempting to detonate what they thought were bombs outside an Illinois courthouse and a Texas skyscraper, authorities said.

SOLUTION:

When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace? At,

linked text


WHY? - the reality

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD].

CHALLENGE:

I challenge one and all to prove any of my facts and/or cases cited wrong – get real and accept reality.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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A Sailor On the USS Nimitz said it best
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Posted by: Ayla87 on Sep 25, 2009 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw the PBS documentary carrier recently, and what one of the sailors said about this issue seems right on the money to me:

"I don't think we're pushing Christianity in the Middle East. I think we're pushing our culture; Which incorporates Christianity, but it incorporates McDonalds more."

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Bastardized "Christianity" or bastardized "Islam" ? What choice do they have?
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 25, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Either way, they're screwed by imprisoned "religion" !

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Jesus Camp for Everyone! Want it or Not!
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Posted by: johnbradleycopeland on Sep 25, 2009 2:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pack your bags and off with you and your entire family to Jesus Camp where you and your family including your children will be indoctrinated into the Family Values Crowd of Jesus Camp extroidinaire with full rock bands and video's of the crucifixtion and life sized cardboard cut-outs of ex-president Bush for you to pray over as you get on your knees to worship at the alter of "christianity"! With the help of Focus on the Family, American Family Association, Christian Coalition et. al. you will learn the "truth" over and over until you know it and you will give give give your money until the entire world becomes a believer and until then Jesus Camp and it's supporters will invade your country - The Republic of America - and enter your politcal houses, your school board, your county government, your state government and your Congress until you see it their way!!! You will have license plates with the sign of the crucifix attached so that everyone know who is who!!! And if that isn't enough the US Military will use it's forces against you until you know the real wrath of god which can be used against non-believers who must be "taught" the truth!! Yes my god, "christianity" is good and god wants you to be wealthy no matter what!! Without money how can you lead others to god?! Give give give; call that TV preacher now, he needs another Mercedes for the church and and a tank for the holy war!!!!!!
P.S. Who amongst you is the next fool?

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What Christian Nation, I Beg Your Pardon....
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Posted by: Dak on Sep 25, 2009 3:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even though we have a lot of right wing, militaristic blowhards on this website, I am humbled by the constant attacks on another religion, Islam. As a Christian minister, M. Div., I took two courses in Seminary on Islam and the Muslim people, and not once did I experience or feel any hatred by either group or their religion. I worked at a voter registration table at the Islamic Education Center and was treated so hospitably that I was ashamed that I had ever had a negative thought regarding these good people. You must separate the sheep from the goats in every group of people: The sheep are peace-loving, and the goats are lovers of war, hate, murder, the extreme right of every group. Extremists... get it?

You must realize that these military blowhards are dependent on the two wars going on for their livelihood. What would they do if they couldn't kill or maim "other" people? The do not know anything else, except for the young men who are training to be Doctors, Dentists, computer operators, and other peace-time positions. These wars are nothing but a business enterprise for the military industrial complex and they care not how much it costs to fund the war monster.
As for the USA being a Christian nation...Ugh!!! We are a nation that believes in God... outside of that, we lose complete touch with reality. There are dozens of religions in the USA, and we only see fit to pick on Islam? Nice! God bless you.

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» Secularists Posted by: BlueTigress

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mr william harning
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Posted by: bmtink on Sep 25, 2009 5:52 PM   
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Next time you hear "Onward Christian Soldiers marching as to war with the cross of Jesus " it may be against everyone who is not a Christian. Be afraid be very afraid.

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Learn The Facts On Islam's Not Giving Others Freedom of Conscience
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 26, 2009 1:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi Everyone

I originally made this post to maxpayne, but when I thought about it, I well knew all should have access to this information as it is so important.

First, I am in no way saying all Muslims create violence, but those who do not, and there are many, unfortunately do not take steps to have their religion rein it in, i.e., get the bad ones ousted out or ex-communicated or what ever. [[Note, some of my best friends are Muslim and my early childhood was spent in a mixed religious environment.]]

Second, I respect other religions and believe all have a right to freedom of conscience, religion, even if they are members of a false religion; but this right should be extended to all without violence or force. Islam does NOT extend this right to others as shown by the following:

[1] "Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-Muslims or each other? Please pass this vital information on!

Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons.” [source – The Weekender Australian]

[2] ** The case of - Sayed Parwez Kaambakhsh, check this and the following cases out.

linked text

[3] ** The case of - Lubna Hussein (Female)

linked text

[4] ** The case of - Abdul Rahman

linked text

[5] ** The case of - Gillian Gibbons

linked text

And LAST, check out,

Land Theft Of Seventh Century Responsible For Middle East Problems of Today:

linked text

Now some questions, based on above linked articles - read first before answering.

[1] Should one face possible execution for downloading an article on rights for women?

[2] Should a women face a lashing of 40 lashes by a horse whip and/or a month in prison for wearing decent trousers?

[3] Should one potentially face the firing squad for simply changing his or her religion?

[4] Should one potentially face execution for permitting her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad?


Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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Dissolve Islam and Give The World Some Needed Peace
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 26, 2009 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dissolve Islam and Give The World Some Needed Peace

The lust for violence that many members of Islam have that is responsible for 90 to 95% of the violence in the world today per the Weekender Australia. [source - source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]

Now, let's look in depth at some reality, the truth, Go to:

Land Theft Of Seventh Century Responsible For Middle East Problems of Today:

linked text

And history is repeating itself daily because many Muslims still have a lust for violence and here is very recent proof of that,

In unrelated terrorism cases elsewhere around the country Thursday:

• Michael C. Finton, a 29-year-old man who idolized American-born Taliban soldier John Walker Lindh, was arrested after attempting to detonate what he thought was a bomb inside a van outside a federal courthouse in Springfield, Ill., officials said. FBI agents had infiltrated the alleged plot months ago.

• A 19-year-old Jordanian was arrested after placing what he thought was a bomb at a downtown Dallas skyscraper, federal prosecutors said. The decoy device was provided by an undercover FBI agent. Federal officials said the case against Hosam Maher Husein Smadi, who is charged with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction, is unrelated to the Illinois case.

• Two North Carolina men under arrest since July on international terrorism charges were also accused by prosecutors of plotting to kill U.S. military personnel.

[source - linked text]

By the time you read this, more examples of their lust for violence will occur.

The only workable solution,

When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

linked text

Now this is reality, the truth, most do NOT want to know, but I challenge anyone to find any factual errors.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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Cmon........ PPl think
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 27, 2009 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yea.... I am an Indian and I have seen first hand what terrorism is.

I also know how brutal these "Islamic fundamentalists" can be, my dad was in the army.

US govt(not saying ppl) openly advocates global hypocrisy, with basically everything for themselves and any one going against them are either branded rogue nations or as terrorists....

How many americans know, that the CIA funded the original taliban when they were mujahideen fighting against the USSR...... And how many know that Pakistan has started three wars against India and is still even today, the best place for terrorists... and yet heavily funded by the US and Muslim nations like the Saudia Arabia.....

Also do americans know that Saudi law is the most barbaric in the present world and that women had more rights in Iraq under Saddam than in saudia arabia - an ally of a pathetic double sided american foreign policy.

Also I am guessing the the slight misguided concept of the importance of religion in Asia people who are non asian might have.

As an analogy think of how in the west skin color matters thats the same kind of difference religion makes in Asia, especially the middle east and the sub continent.
We dont think that much about race but a lot more on religion, so such an issue will be taken extremely seriously.

Nobody wants to say it loud like the whole race issue you guys have but it is an undeniable truth - religion matters a lot over here......

P.S. I dont advocate any religion, all I am saying is think as deeply and carefully as you guys consider race as a factor, because thats how deep we think of religion here.....

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» RE: Cmon........ PPl think Posted by: iris89
» RE: Cmon........ PPl think Posted by: Kalilk
» RE: Cmon........ PPl think Posted by: Kalilk

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ALL SHOULD TELL THE TRUTH!
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 27, 2009 1:14 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ALL SHOULD TELL THE TRUTH!

John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but posters who are members of Islam almost always tell untruths and I am getting tired of it. Look at the following examples:

[1] One said,

“The second cause is the stealing of lands of the Palestinian Arabs by the Khazar EUROPEAN BLUE EYED JEWS. PERIOD!! The Blue eyed Europeans have no DNA match with the original black eyed Arabs of Palestine.”

Of course this is an outright lie. DNA evidence clearly shows you are NOT TELLING THE TRUTH with respect European Jews. Now here is part of that evidence:

"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
- M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000

In addition to oral tradition and copious historical evidence, the genetic evidence stands firmly behind the common ancestry of both Ashkenazim and Sephardim in the Near East, and against any non-Jewish origin for either of these groups. Below are a collection of scientific journal articles including abstracts available worldwide on Pubmed and Medline.

Jewish and middle eastern non-jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.

Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B

Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; Department of Genetics, Universita degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel.

[Medline record in process]

Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from

See Part 2

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Part 2 of "ALL SHOULD TELL THE TRUTH!"
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 27, 2009 1:22 PM   
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Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.

For more details, go to:

Some Do NOT Understand The Difference Between Title and Occupancy

linked text

[2] One said,

“Are you not conveniently FORGETTING the original causes of all this Muslim 'lust' as you call it? The CRUSADES against Muslims of your Lord's vicar on Earth, the Popes!”

Reality, Islam, is responsible for causing the Crusades due to their love of violence. Now let's look at the facts!

Members of Islam accuse the Catholic Church of starting the Crusades, but this is just one BIG LIE. Let's look at the facts, the reality. Now let's look at the facts of the First Crusade from history and see how the greed and war like ways of Islam brought it on.

[["In 1009 the Fatimid caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah had sacked the pilgrimage hospice in Jerusalem and destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. It was later rebuilt by the Byzantine emperor, but this event may have been remembered in Europe and may have helped spark the crusade. In 1063, Pope Alexander II had given papal blessing to Iberian Christians in their wars against the Muslims, granting both a papal standard (the vexillum sancti Petri) and an indulgence to those who were killed in battle. Pleas from the Byzantine Emperors, now threatened under by the Seljuks, first in 1074 from Emperor Michael VII to Pope Gregory VII and in 1095 from Emperor Alexius I Comnenus to Pope Urban II, thus fell on ready ears...

This background in the Christian West must be matched with that in the Muslim East. Muslim presence in the Holy Land goes back to the initial Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century. This did not interfere much with pilgrimage to Christian holy sites or the security of monasteries and Christian communities in the Holy Land of Christendom, and western Europeans were not much concerned with the loss of far-away Jerusalem when, in the ensuing decades and centuries, they were themselves faced with invasions by Muslims and other hostile non-Christians such as the Vikings and Magyars. However, the Muslim armies' successes were putting strong pressure on the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire.

A turning point in western attitudes towards the east came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid caliph of Cairo, al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, had the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem destroyed. His successor permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it under stringent circumstances, and pilgrimage was again permitted, but many stories began to be circulated in the West about the cruelty of Muslims toward Christian pilgrims; these stories then played an important role in the development of the crusades later in the century.

The immediate cause of the First Crusade was Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. In 1071, at the Battle of Manzikert, the Byzantine Empire had been defeated, and this defeat led to the loss of all but the coastlands of Asia Minor (modern Turkey). Although the East-West Schism was brewing between the Catholic Western church and the Greek Orthodox Eastern church, Alexius I expected some help from a fellow Christian. However, the response was much larger, and less helpful, than Alexius I desired, as the Pope called for a large invasion force to not merely defend the Byzantine Empire but also retake Jerusalem.

See Part 3

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Part 3 of "ALL SHOULD TELL THE TRUTH!"
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 27, 2009 1:25 PM   
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For more details, go to:

Land Theft Of Seventh Century Responsible For Middle East Problems of Today:

linked text

START TELLING THE TRUTH.

[3] They even write extensive conspiracy theories to try and absolve themselves of responsibility for 9/11/2001. To learn more, go to:

CONSPIRACY THEORIES THE BANE OF TRUTH

linked text

Let’s put a stop to lying.

I am getting tired of members of Islam trying to push lies down my throat.

Iris89

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Christians
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Posted by: cbstogner on Sep 27, 2009 1:44 PM   
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I believe this could be a good thing.
mortgage calulator mortgage rates bad credit loans investools

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Hey....
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 27, 2009 11:38 PM   
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I read that.... but every religion has had its own skeletons. I dont want to get into that.

I am not Muslim, but I have a few muslim friends and I have seen with my own eyes the discrimination they face, even in cities in India - where people are generally very educated and well off.

And it doesnt seem that the rest of the world holds the community in esteem either, so come dont you think there are going to be some pissed off people????

Imagine a situation where your entire community is regarded all over the world as backward and violent.

And let me tell you most muslims are the same as us, they dont care about killing others nor do they blindly follow religion without thinking.

Frankly I thought bush was waaaay more "RELIGIOUS" than any one I know. A president quoting remarks like a missionary???

And just as I remarked before, think of religion in Asia as you would consider RACE IN AMERICA.......

Thats the kind of society we have here, we dont look too much into color of skin, but our faith in general is a strong identity for most people.

What you say, is something like to solve all america's internal problems throw out all the blacks coz they are the ones causing all the trouble.....- DOES THAT MAKE SENSE??????

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Sallyport
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Posted by: sallyport on Sep 28, 2009 10:04 AM   
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Blackwater,or Xe, is a prime example of religious fervor using the tools of war with the full compliance of our Pentagon. To the P, Blackwater's fanaticism probably seems like the same old same old, so what's the fuss?

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HELLO... You wanted this.....
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 28, 2009 10:04 AM   
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I dont look at religious books and base my opinions and you have to understand one thing, history is written by the victorious.....

For example some of India's pre-independence leaders were considered terrorists by the English and regarded as heroes by the general public. Its your wish to choose a side, but are "correct" depending on YOU.

If you have made up your mind, then I cant change it. Heck my own mother thinks like you - pins everything bad in the world today to the Muslim community.

I dont understand how can people not see that its this attitude that creates terrorists. When you treat them as you would treat a rabid dog, dont you think some of the people would be angry???? And its then very easy to manipulate this anger by a few(terrorists).

I have quite a few muslim friends, I have seen the way general public looks at them - when they wear their traditional clothes, especially women. You know what thats the public's problem, why should the average muslim be treated this way????

Also about the skeletons in religion, I sincerely did not want to get into this. But if you think a few irrational articles can change my perception on a whole.

For example, lets see the crusades, launched by the Europeans under a religious banner to reclaim the middle east.

The absolute power of the pope in the dark to middle ages.

How people used the "message of christ" to enslave the people of Africa.

How the Imperial nations got support for their ambitions through the church.

Considering that missionary work is the most important thing in your life is a one way ticket to hell in India. People here dont give a damn about other religions and the only time they care is when some missionary comes with bribes to manipulate the extremely poor to convert. Personally I dont think it to be very bad but there are plenty others who think faith cant be bought.

And this particular article reminded me of all thats wrong with the military's pro-religious activities, muslims in general are proud and will be very angry looking at such blatant conversion operation conducted by the miliatry. Especially when everyone in the world (atleast in asia) know that Oil was the only reason for the US invasion.

If the US was so self-righteous then they would have forced the Saudis, the Jordans and the others to become democratic and not invade the one country in the middle east that actually had sane laws. It this kind of the thing that angers the crap out of people and gives terrorists a whole lot of labour to work with.

The problem here is not Islam, its how everyone misunderstands them combined with greedy US politics.

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Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 28, 2009 1:56 PM   
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Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth

First, as I have already proven in a 3 part article 3 or 4 post above this one, Islam, not the Pope, was really responsible for the Crusades as they lit the proverbial fuse that brought on the Crusades. For details, go to,

[1] Important Information To Pass On With Respect To Lack Of World Peace

linked text

[2] Land Theft Of Seventh Century Responsible For Middle East Problems of Today:

linked text

Second, With respect to India, let’s look at some facts:

[1] Islam, Violent From The Beginning Using India as An Example:

linked text

[2] Data Complied by Hindu scholar Nkgrock on rape, forced conversions, sand stealing, temple destruction, murders, massacres, etc. by members of Islam in India, Pakistan, & Afghanistan.

linked text

[3] Kashmir the True Situation

linked text

[4] Only a False Religion Commits Genocide Against Others:

linked text

[5] India Taken by the Sword by Muslims From 10 Century On:

linked text

[6] Arab Imperialism Masked as Religion Threatens World Tranquility/Peace:

linked text

[7] Muslims Love to Cover-up The Facts - A Special Report:

linked text

Third, By acting strange many people bring on their own dislike.

Fourth, You said,

“Also about the skeletons in religion, I sincerely did not want to get into this. But if you think a few irrational articles can change my perception on a whole.”

Now what is irrational about this? Let’s look at reality with regard the two very different taxonomies of so called Christianity.

The so called Christian religion consist of over 33,000+ sects and/or groups all believing and propagating different things which is the promoting of many false religions under the broad umbrella of the taxonomy of being Christian. However, it should be obvious to any thinking individual that 33,000+ different ways can NOT all be correct, so what we in effect have is a very large maze that one must transverse to get to the real truth since all but one would only be dead ends.

Of course, in order to do this, one can NOT examine each in detail, but must therefore seek to learn what the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all that exist, the Bible, really teaches. But this is no easy task.

See Part 2 of "Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth"

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Part 2 of “Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth”
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 28, 2009 2:01 PM   
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Part 2 of “Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth”

But let's consider the two taxonomies or distinct classifications of what is commonly referred to as Christianity. Realizing that some view gaining salvation as and easy task and feel that belonging to any old religion is acceptable to Almighty God (YHWH), but is it? Let's look at some facts, realities in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

Now let's look at the two different taxonomies and carefully note what sets them apart from each other:

Group 1 - the genuine (true) followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ do NOT involve themselves with war and violence or meddle in politics, and try to follow to the 'letter' the words and commandments of Christ. Also, they have NO creedal doctrines and/or traditions.

Group 2 - the false claimants of being followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ involve themselves with war and violence and meddle in politics while falsely claiming to be followers of Christ, the Prince of Peace. The give 'lip' service with respect following to the 'letter' the words and commandments of Christ - the term Sunday Christian aptly fits them. They have their creedal doctrines and/or traditions and assign more importance to these than the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

All need to learn what the Bible really says and a good book to assist in this endeavor is, "What Does the Bible Really Teach," by Watch Tower Bible and tract Society of Pennsylvania.

As can readily be seen, Group 1 does not involve itself with nationalism and racism but readily recognizes the Biblical reality of no partiality as shown at Romans 2:11 and elsewhere, "for there is no respect of persons with God." (American Standard Version: ASV). Also, this group strives to follow the 'letter' of the commandments of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all that exist, the Bible; and NOT the creeds and creedal doctrines of men who give themselves high sounding titles.

Whereas, Group 2 only gives 'lip service' to commandments of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all that exist, the Bible. The self evident truth being:

That it matters not what their holy book says be they Group 2 so called Christians and/or some none so called Christian group such as Islam, Hinduism, etc. It is not what either the Bible or the Bible takeoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible takeoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions.

See Part 3 of “Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth”

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Part 3 of “Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth”
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 28, 2009 2:16 PM   
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Part 3 of “Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth”

It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible takeoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope, what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible takeoff the Qur'an may say. Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.

For more details, go to,

[1] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

">linked text


Fifth, You said,

“People here dont give a damn about other religions and the only time they care is when some missionary comes with bribes to manipulate the extremely poor to convert. ..”

Which is an outright untruth with respect to group 1 Christians defined in Fourth – wake up.

Sixth, All should have freedom of conscience, religion, and a right to tell others about their religion, freedom of speech; but none should have the right to preach lust for violence as due many Muslims and still be allowed to call it a religion.

Take the slaughter in Mumbai, India or 09/11/2009 for example. For more details, go back to Second and to,

[1] CONSPIRACY THEORIES THE BANE OF TRUTH

linked text

Seventh, You said,

“If the US was so self-righteous then they would have forced the Saudis, the Jordans and the others to become democratic and not invade the one country in the middle east that actually had sane laws. It this kind of the thing that angers the crap out of people and gives terrorists a whole lot of labour to work with.”

WRONG, The only reason the US became involved in the middle east was the unprovoked attack under the direction of a Muslim religious leader, Sheik Osama (Usama) bin Ladin – so get real. For more details, check out the link in sixth above and the following:

[1] Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs:

linked text

[2] The Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs: the Palestine situation in Gaza.

linked text


iris89

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To Iris89 - Truth is a nice word know what it means
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 30, 2009 1:50 AM   
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Wow..... I dont want to get into the whole relgious thing.... but

“

If the US was so self-righteous then they would have forced the Saudis, the Jordans and the others to become democratic and not invade the one country in the middle east that actually had sane laws. It this kind of the thing that angers the crap out of people and gives terrorists a whole lot of labour to work with.”

WRONG, The only reason the US became involved in the middle east was the unprovoked attack under the direction of a Muslim religious leader, Sheik Osama (Usama) bin Ladin – so get real.

"

UNPROVOKED?????????????????????????????

Do you live under a rock or is all American media the same biased rubbish like FOX or do they actually have something else?????

Dont get into the whole Muslim issue in India, I am a Hindu and my family is so prejudiced against Muslims and so are most of the people around here, they may not show it publicly but I know it very very well.....

And what you said is the thing about religious beliefs spread by the socially acceptable interpreters is absolutely correct. This is where the whole Muslim paradox exists.

Personally I feel Islam is a little backward, kinda like the old hindu customs, the 4000 year old customs have no place in modern society and are slowly being phased out. But in Islam the rules of interpretation are very strict so only a few people are allowed to do so and thats where the power gets concentrated in few hands. If anybody stands up to them with a different view they are viciously cut down by the religious heads.


Now getting back to the whole unprovoked part are you kidding me?????? DO you live on Earth??????? Have you any idea how pissed off people are when they come to talking about the US govt?????? Apart from the sycophantic british there is near unanimous ill will against the american govt.

With the double sided policies and their irrational selfish support to rogue parties and frankly one such party(according to the white house) retaliated. Thats ALL.

You have absolutely no idea do you??? America has like a lot of enemies, they dont do anything because they cant, the US is THE SUPERPOWER right now.

For example, US advocated globalisation as long as it benefited them, US advocates capitalism as long as it benefits them, US destroys a country if it benefits them, the US basically does what it wants.

Right form the whole WTO disagreement to simply establishing an oil security in the mid east are basically reactionary measures to decades of poor poor incredibly stupid foreign policies.

A lot of things are inter related, right from American support of Israel (and if you argue that Israel is a legitimate state then honestly no one in the world can help you) which is quite ridiculous with the inhuman treatment of the palestinians but I guess the adage that birds of a feather flock together is true.

Then coming to the handling of the arab nations, do you know that most of the arab world is governed by monarchy???? and do you know why???? Its because with the US support these monarchs are able to suppress their own people from starting a democratic processes, though slowly things are improving especially in kuwait.

Saudia Arabia is one perfect example, Bin laden is a millionaire treated like a hero among the local populace - I guess.....

The Saudis have the most horrendous law system in the world not to mention barbaric its called "Sharia" and not to mention that women dont even have the right to wear what they want in public(confined to the abaya), also that they arent allowed to drive and a lot of other things as well. I dont support Saddam hussein but Iraq atleast was far more liberal than the US supported Saudi regime.

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To Iris89 - Truth is a nice word know what it means part 2
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 30, 2009 1:51 AM   
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Did you know recently there was case where a woman was raped by a gang and then in the trial the woman was also punised by "lashes" around 200 of them for "being in public with a man outside of her family..................."

It sounds a lot like the taliban to me.....
When the middle east people live under such injustice they get angry and its this anger than eventually comes out.

DONT EVER SAY 9/11 was UNPROVOKED. IT WAS UNEXPECTED AND BRUTAL , then it seems the US govt goes like a hollywood hero to get vengeance half way around the world, but sadly it got over too quickly because the taliban were/are very weak, basically mountain people with AK-47's. So they turn on Iraq, for no reason at all, they should have gone after North korea or hunted bin laden out and justified the war but the koreans are way too strong and south korea would never accept it especially with China so close and the terrorist killing wont exactly cover the cost of war now will it???

Afghani oil...... enjoy the new low oil prices with the blood of innocent afghanis.

Iraq with chemical weapons???? BIGGEST JOKE OF THE MILLENNIUM, for the simple fact that Saddam hated the US, he would have done anything to hurt them, if he had weapons he would have gladly collaborated with bin laden(or who ever actually responisble) and made 9/11 a hiroshima. Or if he had such advanced weaponry he would have used it already in the first gulf war when his ass was getting kicked by the americans and he held all the vantage points in kuwait.

Iraq was simply the most beneficial and easy target for the US which does run a kind of war economy because thats what a lot of previous presidents have done when they couldnt handle recession and it works very well too, if you remember briefly with the extreme growth rates.

Nothing is unprovoked, I am not saying the American media is all wrong but it would never hurt to broaden your horizons. And read a lot of real humanitarian sites like the red cross, I volunteered for them last year in my last semester of college and that really opened my eyes to a lot of things.

P.S.

I was in the middle east (kuwait) for around 2 years, the time around the second gulf war happened and I remember us guys going out to play football (soccer) when the sirens were on and so did a lot of people.

Also if the funding is to be stopped to the terrorist groups then I would suggest the "world security" dept of the US to go into the small shops in every corner called baqala(small shop) in any Arab country and remove those donation boxes.

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Once More Kalilk Has It All Wrong - Learn The Truth
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 30, 2009 10:16 AM   
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First, As can be seen by the above post, we have an anti-American spewing forth nonsense and crappola, but giving absolutely no justification for the willful distruction of Mr. Silverstein’s World Trade Center or the vicious and unprovoked murder of around 3,000 office workers including one of my best friends from Morocco.

Second, Islam tries to cover up their egregious wrong with conspiracy theories meant to obfuscate the truth, the reality. For details, go to,

CONSPIRACY THEORIES THE BANE OF TRUTH

linked text

Third, He claims to know Indian history, but does not. Six of my links in my previous post, “Kalilk Has It All Wrong – Learn The Truth” , but obviously he failed to read any of them, nor deal with any of the facts contained in my article. He only makes an anti-American diatribe – this is really unconscionable.

Fourth, He even admits that Islam has problems,

“Personally I feel Islam is a little backward, kinda like the old hindu customs, the 4000 year old customs have no place in modern society and are slowly being phased out. But in Islam the rules of interpretation are very strict so only a few people are allowed to do so and thats where the power gets concentrated in few hands. If anybody stands up to them with a different view they are viciously cut down by the religious heads.”

Clearly showing Islam is in effect a dictatorship with power concentrated in f few individuals who will “If anybody stands up to them with a different view they are viciously cut down by the religious heads.” This clearly shows they have long ceased to be a religion, but have become a wicked political entity that needs to be dissolved in the interest of world peace. For details see,

When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

linked text

Fifth, This poster fails to deal with the reality that with respect Afghanistan and Iraq, Islam lit the proverbial fuse. For details, see,

[1] Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs:

linked text

[2] The Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs: the Palestine situation in Gaza.

linked text

even that a wicked and evil individual is a good individual, have you no sense of right and wrong, but only want to discuss politics which all know are rotten everywhere, what is wrong with this poster? Here is what he said,

“Saudia Arabia is one perfect example, Bin laden is a millionaire treated like a hero among the local populace - I guess.....”

Where he implies this scum of wickedness is a hero.

See Part 2 of "Once More Kalilk Has It All Wrong - Learn The Truth"

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See Part 2 of "Once More Kalilk Has It All Wrong - Learn The Truth"
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 30, 2009 10:21 AM   
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See Part 2 of "Once More Kalilk Has It All Wrong - Learn The Truth"


Sixth, He said,

“Did you know recently there was case where a woman was raped by a gang and then in the trial the woman was also punised by "lashes" around 200 of them for "being in public with a man outside of her family”

And I do know of this outrage promoted by Islam, and I am also well aware of Muslim Honor Killings in Turkey where many members of Islam murder their daughter if she gets raped.

Seventh, Last he says,

“Nothing is unprovoked, I am not saying the American media is all wrong but it would never hurt to broaden your horizons. And read a lot of real humanitarian sites like the red cross, I volunteered for them last year in my last semester of college and that really opened my eyes to a lot of things.”

This is a lot of ‘crappola,’ Islam, since its beginning has had a lust for violence and promoting unprovoked attacks on others, for more details, go to,

[1] Land Theft Of Seventh Century Responsible For Middle East Problems of Today:

linked text

[2] Blood, Blood, and More Blood, the Story of Islam:

linked text

FINALLY, This individual should go to my links and start learning the facts, the reality, instead of posting disturbing and untrue nonsense. Also, note, he has NOT shown a single fact I presented to be in error; in fact he refuses to even deal with the truths I post.

Iris89

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» To Iris89... Posted by: Kalilk

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Iris89
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 30, 2009 11:10 AM   
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The truth you say......

Looks a lot like you just posted is a site you probably made yourself, YOU WANT PROOF you say....

Ok.... go and read the archives of the bbc during the gulf war 1 and 2..... Go and read the archives of the jazeera network too... but be very very open minded with the jazeera because they are like the islamic version of you........

ALSO I WAS IN KUWAIT DURING THE GULF WAR 2!!!!
- oh wait... do you want to see a scan of my passport to see my kuwait visa as proof??????

And also only skim the facts there will be some biasing every where.... Try to see what the journalist reported rather than what she/he wrote.......

And so many bible references, I thought quoting from religious places is just NOT FACT at all.... THAT IS WHY I DONT QUOTE THINGS FROM THE UPANISHADS OR THE GITA...... COZ as holy as they may be, I dont base ALL my beliefs on a bunch of outdated 3 millennium old books.

I suggest you do the same, there is a whole big world apart from the bible, I can see you are extremely religious but give it a try........

Are you a guy... if so well I dont know how old you are but you could well lower your ego and been more open minded if for just a little bit.

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Iris89
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 30, 2009 11:16 AM   
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Wow... just finished reading all those linked texts, its not something that I dont already know, but we do live in the 21st century.

And its not fair that you punish the current muslims for what their ancestors did. If you do then you become just as pathetic.

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» SOME ARE WAY OFF BASE Posted by: iris89
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To Iris89
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Posted by: Kalilk on Sep 30, 2009 1:39 PM   
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"
First, I never spoke of punishing innocent people. I am speaking with respect a false religion.

Second, This false, so called, religion is responsible for 90 to 95% of the violence in the world today, and should be dissolved in the interest of world peace.

"

Well, for this to be true, I am not sure you are aware of what kind of society the muslims have the children like in Christianity more are rather are obligated to learn the quran and are obligated to the islamic way of life from a very young age and these people get very upset with all the recent events.

So its near impossible to disband such a religion, because of their number and War is never the solution.

So what you are saying is bascially wiping them out in some kind of a concentration camp, coz trust me my dad was in the army and the people they caught were so hardcore they would rather die than denounce their faith or sell out their comrades.

Or do you have something else in mind???

And also some of the links posted there talk about Mumbai - the place where I live. The place where grew up is 2 km from the Taj hotel.

And also I know a lot more about my history, than you may think. There is a lot of angst about the whole issue but trust me there was a lot more when we were condemned to helplessness when our govt was not allowed by the UN backed by the US and co, when Pakistan attacked us during kargil and we being the "good" nation we are first went to the UN when we thought of crossing the "LOC" line of control the officially agreed border.

But we were not allowed to cross over and stomp out the terrorists that had entered kashmir and retreated beyond when the LOC after Pakistan lost shamelessly again.

Then one of the groups LeT attacked our PARLIAMENT, and it was only then the LeT was recognised because the US felt so.

And about our historical ties with the muslims, all I have to say is that too many people have already died and if we keep living in what has happened then you cant really do anything for the future.

Yes, if you have seen the quite recent bombings in Delhi it was in Connaught place a shopping area, and it was conducted by students in their final year in Jamia university, and I was in my final year that time too - and that was absolutely shocking for me.

I know a lot about Islamic militancy and I also know why it happens, thats why I am so sure that disbanding Islam is quite impossible and well the next generation of muslims(Indian) are the same as me, very tolerant and against hypocrisy.

Also again I state our matters are very internal, our country has been divided already in the name of religion, thanks to inept politics by Gandhi and co.

As a whole there is a huge amount of hatred with the whole terrorist activites and Hindi-Muslim friction. And yes there is wide spread notion that all muslims should have been sent packing to the countries they demanded for themselves(Pakistan and Bangladesh), like how hindus from these areas were thrown out, but we decided to be secular and I am very proud of the fact that we are. Obviously not the whole nation but we slowly are becoming and the only way for that to work is tolerance and understanding other people.

And as such politically disbanding a religion, is folly and will be detrimental to the world and since you seem to know how vicious "Muslims" are, do you really want another world war????????

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gilhowcan
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Posted by: gilhowcan on Oct 2, 2009 3:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just the military, though the invasion of our military by the Religious Crazies is an extremely dangerous situation that must be confronted and opposed by sane people in this country by demanding that we oblige the separation of church and state as required by the Constitution. For the information of the Religious Crazies, the military is part of our government, part of our "state."

The activities of the Religious Crazies has become extremely dangerous. They are sneaky. They are defiant of all law except what they perceive to be biblical law. New for them! This nation is not managed by biblical law, it is a secular society managed by our constitution and all the laws that have followed that basic law.

The Religious Crazies have become the Fundamentalist Jesuits of the 20th-21st centuries in this country. That army of Jesus Christ! Hrummmmmmmph!

Let them stick to their own home, churches, and friends. Their friends have the right and the occasion to turn them off, walk away from them, even tell them, "Go to your hell!"

Religious Crazies are nuts! They are emotional basket cases in desperate need of reliable therapy to undo all the damage caused by their inability to recognize biblical scriptures as ancient mythology. They accept it literally in spite of its ugliness and its madness of contradictions. That's why they always concentrate on a single verse at a time. That way, they can rail on with no embarrassment or other concern that their preaching is inconsistent with the book from which they quote so selectively.

Whether it's our public offices, our military, our public schools, no matter where we find these proselytizing invaders of the Religious Crazy movement, we must stop them. They are instituting a religious war, no doubt about it. It must be recognized for what it is and we must stand against the terror of their invasion. Their tactics are precisely geared to a theocratic takeover of this government. We must never allow that. Wake up and see the enemy! Take arms against that enemy! Those arms are an enforcement of our laws against their illegal, unethical, immoral practices. They are a perfect example of bad religion. History has provided us with innumerable examples of bad religion. That history impressed our Founders. Attend to your history.

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» RE: gilhowcan Posted by: iris89

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To Iris89
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Posted by: Kalilk on Oct 2, 2009 5:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey,

Well thats all there and all, but dont you think after reading all this stuff that religion itself should be dissolved and thrown out all together???? I mean why pin point Islam, its not like the others are any better.

Personally I dont like anything that divides people and customs and traditions mandatory in the 1 st millennium surely dont have a place in the current world. I mean with the whole world coming together and all, I dont think it to be well "conducive" to the present world situation.

Think about it why should a certain set of ppl pledge good will to a certain set of people when they can do so to everyone regardless of what book they read or what they wear.........

Why not do away with such a word "religion" totally, and be better people. Religion may have helped with the previous generations be more honest and be "good" but now it seems very detrimental as whole to modern society.

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» Ahem..... WHAT???????????? Posted by: Kalilk

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Enough of Your apology here
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Posted by: greatwerewolf7 on Oct 5, 2009 3:40 AM   
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@iris89

First, Only in Islam:

Only in Islam do you hear of mothers urging their sons to become suicide bombers because of the love for violence or lust for violence promoted in much of Islam. Some examples"

What nonsense you talk! Haven't you heard of the Jews who were the first suicide bombers?

And about love for violence, did not the Christians love violence when they went on crusades, and when they (both catholics and your favorite protestants) genocided the native Indians of the American continent? So off with your crap you Christian Protestant apologist.

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» NEED TO WAKE UP TO REALITY Posted by: iris89

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You are not a Christian apologist? Really?
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Posted by: greatwerewolf7 on Oct 5, 2009 3:50 AM   
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@iris89
"Second, I am NOT Christian apologist, but an independent religious researcher."

Did you write the sentence below? If you did, then by this very fact alone you ARE A CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST. PERIOD

"Third, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the truth, and NOT the Old Middle Eastern Celestial Moon God, Allah."

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TRUTH DOES NOT AN APOLOGIST MAKE
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Posted by: iris89 on Oct 5, 2009 5:51 AM   
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TRUTH DOES NOT AN APOLOGIST MAKE

Greatwerewolf7 makes the false claim that stating the truth makes one an apologist – what utter nonsense. Look at his totally nonsense false claim,

“Did you write the sentence below? If you did, then by this very fact alone you ARE A CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST. PERIOD

"Third, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the truth, and NOT the Old Middle Eastern Celestial Moon God, Allah."”

Whereas, I am an independent religious researcher who goes out and digs out the facts and then writes up my findings in the most balanced and honest way possible. Elsewhere I told him,

“But I am neither a protestant nor an apologist nor a Catholic, but an independent religious researcher. Apparently you failed to note,

“Now let's look at the two different taxonomies and carefully note what sets them apart from each other:

Group 1 - the genuine (true) followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ do NOT involve themselves with war and violence or meddle in politics, and try to follow to the 'letter' the words and commandments of Christ. Also, they have NO creedal doctrines and/or traditions.

Group 2 - the false claimants of being followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ involve themselves with war and violence and meddle in politics while falsely claiming to be followers of Christ, the Prince of Peace. The give 'lip' service with respect following to the 'letter' the words and commandments of Christ - the term Sunday Christian aptly fits them. They have their creedal doctrines and/or traditions and assign more importance to these than the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

All need to learn what the Bible really says and a good book to assist in this endeavor is, "What Does the Bible Really Teach," by Watch Tower Bible and tract Society of Pennsylvania.”

As can readily be seen, Group 1 does not involve itself with nationalism and racism but readily recognizes the Biblical reality of no partiality as shown at Romans 2:11 and elsewhere, "for there is no respect of persons with God." (American Standard Version: ASV). Also, this group strives to follow the 'letter' of the commandments of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all that exist, the Bible; and NOT the creeds and creedal doctrines of men who give themselves high sounding titles.

Whereas, Group 2 only gives 'lip service' to commandments of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all that exist, the Bible.”

Iris89

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» RE: LEARN REALITY: CHECK THE FACTS Posted by: greatwerewolf7
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Well........
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Posted by: Kalilk on Oct 7, 2009 9:15 PM   
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Hey Iris,

I dont know what do you mean by learning the "truth", but I completely disagree with you on a lot of religious aspects of what you say and believe.

Honestly, this is the very same reason I avoid religious people. It was very interesting talking to you, but really this world is too small people like us.

I am never going to accept some text written before people knew what happened to others even a little apart, so lets just leave it at that.

You are just too weird for me to take in the stuff you said, but I probably will read the bible books you suggested, just like how I read the quran just to know what on Earth you religious people think.

Good day and good bye,
Siddarth

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What is your opinion iris?
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Posted by: greatwerewolf7 on Oct 14, 2009 1:47 AM   
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Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

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The U.S.A. is a Christian nation?
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Posted by: drfun on Sep 24, 2009 1:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's take a look at the "Family Values" the GOP display. There is Ronald Reagan, who is accused by first wife of "Extreme Mental Cruelty" to marry a 3 month pregnant Nancy.

Newt Gingrich serves his first wife with divorce papers while recovering from cancer in the hospital. Now on wife #3 and received annulments from his past marriages with a recent religious conversion to Catholicism.

Along with the multiple marriage infidelities of Henry Hyde, Bob Barr, John McCain, John Ensign, John Livingston and many others.

Or the perverted Congressional Page sex scandle of Mark Foley and the bathroom escapees of Larry Craig. Pre-martial sex resulting in pregnancy Sarah Palin who has her daughter do the premarital sex resulting in getting knocked up, but can't seem to want to follow though on the marriage part.

If this is how the public GOP leadership behaves in its private life, then is it any surprise as to why the situation the U.S.A. finds itself presently.

Or why the U.S.A. has the government it deserves from these representative scum mentioned above?

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Never Really Understood Religion
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Posted by: Lese Majeste on Sep 24, 2009 2:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..your sons and daughters are fighting to protect our citizens and people around the world from zealots who would restrain, molest, burden and cause to suffer those who do not share their religious beliefs, deny us, whom they call infidels, our unalienable rights -- life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

But when it's our military doing the restraining, molesting and causing the suffering, then it's OK?

I'm really at a loss to understand why we do so much fighting over religion.

Three of the world's biggest religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism more or less worship the same god.

They all worship and praise the prophet Abraham, why, I don't know. This is the guy that was ready to slit his son's throat all because he heard voices in his head. (Several thousand years later, another homicidal maniac heard voices in his head that told him to 'smite Saddam.' We murdered him, wrecked Iraq and killed a million or more Iraqi's in the process.)

Two of these religions acknowledge and worship Jesus Christ. Christians as a savior and Son of God and Muslims as a prophet... which he was until the Council of Nicaea in 325 of church elders changed JC's status from a prophet to the Son of God.

Judaism states that JC is some kind of demon that is sitting in a pit of excrement for all eternity and that his mother was a whore.

So why all the fighting? Or is one religious group bent on getting the other two to fight to the death so they can swoop in and pick up the spoils?

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If there was no religion
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Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Sep 24, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mankind would find some other reason to kill each other. As it stands at present religion is the only way "Patriarchs" can control the females of the world, the females who unlike Muslim mothers wish their children safety, security, health, education, and most of all love.Sadly Muslim women wish to see their children blow themselves up killing "infidels"!!!!Like the one woman who has literally sent three of her sons to death by bombs attached to their bodies, how sick is that???

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Christians?
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 24, 2009 3:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blessed are the peace makers
For they shall be called sons of God

Do they even have a remedial understanding of what Jesus was all about?

Kinda makes ya wonder, doesn't it?

Rabid Blue Dogs

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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I'll break it down for you
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Posted by: snotnosedkid on Sep 24, 2009 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you suggest that no one else has the balls to explain how this war will protect your religious freedom, I'll break it down for you.

While Christians may view you as a lost soul and try to help you find God, muslims view every last one of us as infidels. Whether Christian or not. And a muslim views an infidel the same way that Hitler viewed a Jew. If muslims had their way every non-muslim "infidel" would be slaughtered for the grace of allah. So take the wool away from your eyes and thank God or whoever you worship that there are men and women in this country who are willing to stand up and fight for your religious freedom.

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this country wasn't founded by Christians (part 1)
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 24, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1787 when the framers excluded all mention of God from the Constitution, they were widely denounced as immoral and the document was denounced as godless, which is precisely what it is. Opponents of the Constitution challenged ratifying conventions in nearly every state, calling attention to Article VI, Section 3: “No religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

An anti-federalist in North Carolina wrote: “The exclusion of religious tests is by many thought dangerous and impolitic. Pagans, Deists and Mohammedans might obtain office among us.” Amos Singletary of Massachussetts, one of the most outspoken critics of the Constitution, said that he “hoped to see Christians (in power), yet by the Constitution, a papist or an infidel was as eligible as they.”

Luther Martin, a Maryland delegate to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 wrote that “there were some members so unfashionable as to think that a belief in the existence of a Deity, and of a state of future rewards and punishments would be some security for the good conduct of our rulers, and that in a Christian country, it would be at least decent to hold out some distinction between the professors of Christianity and downright infidelity or paganism.” Martin’s report shows that a “Christian nation” faction had its say during the convention, and that its views were consciously rejected.

The United States Constitution is a completely secular political document. It begins “We the people,” and contains no mention of “God,” “Jesus,” or “Christianity.” Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as the “no religious test” clause (Article VI), and “Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” (First Amendment)

The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase “so help me God” or any requirement to swear on a Bible (Article II, Section 1). The words “under God” did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, inserted them.

Similarly, “In God we Trust” was absent from paper currency before 1956, though it did appear on some coins beginning in 1864. The original U.S. motto, written by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, is “E Pluribus Unum” (“Of Many, One”) celebrating plurality and diversity.

In 1797, America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington’s presidency and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

We are not governed by the Declaration of Independence. Its purpose was to “dissolve the political bonds,” not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based upon the idea that “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,” which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. The Declaration deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, etc., and doesn’t discuss religion at all. The references to “Nature’s God,” “Creator,” and “Divine Providence” in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Its author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist, opposed to Christianity and the supernatural.

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this country wasn't founded by Christians (part 2)
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 24, 2009 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me so pure as that of Jesus,” wrote Thomas Jefferson. However, Jefferson admitted, “In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man and that other parts are the fabric of very inferior minds...” It was Thomas Jefferson who established the separation of church and state. Jefferson was deeply suspicious of religion and of clergy wielding political power.

Jefferson helped create the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in 1786, incurring the wrath of Christians by his fervent defense of toleration of atheists: “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others. But it does no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Jefferson advocated a “wall of separation” between church and state not to protect the church from government intrusion, but to preserve the freedom of the people:

“I consider the doctrines of Jesus as delivered by himself to contain the outlines of the sublimest morality that has ever been taught;” he observed, “but I hold in the most profound detestation and execration the corruptions of it which have been invested by priestcraft and established by kingcraft, constituting a conspiracy of church and state against the civil and religious liberties of mankind.”

Jefferson and the founding fathers were products of the Age of Enlightenment. Their world view was based upon Deism, secularism, and rationalism.

“The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight,” wrote Jefferson. “The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter...we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this...”

As late as 1820, Jefferson was convinced everyone in the United States would die a Unitarian. Jefferson, Madison and Paine’s writings indicate that America was never intended to be a Christian theocracy. “I have sworn upon the altar of God,” wrote Jefferson, “eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

In his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Jefferson wrote: “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

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this country wasn't founded by Christians (part 3)
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 24, 2009 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Similarly, in an 1824 letter to John Cartwright, Jefferson expressed anger at judges who had based rulings on their belief that Christianity is part of the common law. Cartwright had written a book critical of these judges, and Jefferson was glad to see it. Observed Jefferson, “The proof of the contrary, which you have produced, is controvertible; to wit, that the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced, or knew that such a character had ever existed.” Jefferson challenged “the best-read lawyer to produce another script of authority for this judicial forgery” and concluded, “What a conspiracy this, between Church and State!”

As president, Jefferson put his “wall of separation” theory into practice. He refused to issue proclamations calling for days of prayer and fasting, insisting that they violate the First Amendment. As early as 1779, Jefferson proposed a bill before the Virginia legislature that would have established a series of elementary schools to teach the basics—reading, writing, and arithmetic. Jefferson even suggested that “no religious reading, instruction, or exercise shall be prescribed or practiced, inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination.” Jefferson did not regard public schools as the proper agent to form children’s religious views.

As president, James Madison also put his separationist philosophy into action. He vetoed two bills he believed would violate church-state separation. The first was an act incorporating the Episcopal Church in the District of Columbia that gave the church the authority to care for the poor. The second was a proposed land grant to a Baptist church in Mississippi. Had Madison, the father of the Constitution, believed that all the First Amendment was intended to do was bar setting up a state church, he would have approved these bills. Instead, he vetoed both, and in his veto messages to Congress explicitly stated that he was rejecting the bills because they violated the First Amendment.

Later in his life, James Madison came out against state-paid chaplains, writing, “The establishment of the chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles.” He also concluded that his calling for days of prayer and fasting during his presidency had been unconstitutional.

In an 1819 letter to Robert Walsh, Madison wrote, “the number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the state.” In an undated essay called the “Detached Memoranda,” written in the early 1800s, Madison wrote, “Strongly guarded...is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States.”

In 1833 Madison responded to a letter sent to him by Jasper Adams. Adams had written a pamphlet titled “The Relations of Christianity to Civil Government in the United States,” which tried to prove that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. Madison wrote back: “In the papal system, government and religion are in a manner consolidated, and that is found to be the worst of government.”

Madison, like Jefferson, was confident that separation of church and state would protect both the institutions of government and religion. Late in his life, Madison wrote to a Lutheran minister about this, declaring, “A due distinction...between what is due to Caesar and what is due to God, best promotes the discharge of both obligations...A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity.”

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» Excellent posts - thank you. Posted by: thekidde
» Thank you, vasumurti. Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Thank you, vasumurti. Posted by: donoharm
» Kudos Posted by: pbutler

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Appease Muslim Chauvinism? Why?
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Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Sep 24, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Western countries have religious and philosphical freedom.

The big problem with Muslim countries is they don't have either, or if they do, it is on paper only and one takes ones life in ones hands to practice religious and philosophical freedom.

The West has already evolved away from religious authoritarianism. So must Islam. Let's start by NOT APPEASING Muslim religious authoritarianism.

I say, wave crosses and Bibles in their face if you are so inclined. . . . or free-thinking atheist text.

Political Islam is an embarassing blot on the world.

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» RE: Appease Muslim Chauvinism? Why? Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» As is political christianity. Posted by: thekidde

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Before Israel, Islam was of little concern to America
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Posted by: weathered on Sep 24, 2009 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why is this now our problem?

See this link w/Israel for exactly what it is, a toxic bribe.
Extortion very carefully dressed-up w/all the phony and fraudulent energy of a hollywood production - and all at our immense expense.

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Maybe I've been misjudging Obama?
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Posted by: luther6 on Sep 24, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here I thought he was a two-faced liar about ending the war(s) and stopping torture etc. Turns out they must have told him he'll be President for about 5 minutes after he doesn't send more troops to Afghanistan. Which general or admiral will lead the coup do you think? Or will they just start a theocracy? Obama's not so much a sleazy lying politician. He's just a wuss who won't fight for the Constitution he swore to uphold.

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» RE: Maybe I've been misjudging Obama? Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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Lay off it for a while
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Posted by: rcase on Sep 24, 2009 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AlterNet goes on and on with its anti-Christian obsessions. There is a military war being fought but behind it is an ideological war. The Muslims understand this. Sanuel P. Huntington (The Clash of Civilizations and the Making of the World Order)understands this. Who knows what the AlterNet types understand. For many Muslims(certainly not all)the end goal is to impose Islam on the world. That is, to "impose" Islam on the world. Christians believe that all things are to be united in Christ, but that all persons are to be respected and nothing is to be imposed. The AlterNet types are not in a tirade about the military today. They are in a tirade about American history. Their world would be a secular world, duly imposed also by secular education and the forbidding of religion (of any type) to operate in the public square.

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» RE: Lay off it for a while Posted by: americancontragenic

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The Horrible Hairy History of Islam
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Posted by: tlwinslow on Sep 24, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, when it comes to Islam everybody who isn't Muslim is always at war with them, and they started it, sorry, there's no escape, it's like the Terminator.

Westerners are history ignoramuses when it comes to Islam, softening them up for disinformation, especially the "religion of peace" baloney.

Check out my History of Islam for History Ignoramuses and arm yourself with some knowledge. It's free.

http://go.to/islamhistory

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» RE: The Horrible Hairy History of Islam Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Ain't the All Volunteer Force great??!!
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Sep 24, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yessir, folks! The All Volunteer Force, that post-Vietnam offspring of the illicit fornacation of the anti-war movement and Richard Nixon and midwifed by "free-market Jesus" Milton J. Friedman, is a wonder to behold! Isn't it?

Yessiree, this little monster was intended to prevent future presidents from acts of military adventurism or meddling in conflicts which had little bearing on US security interests.

And remember, folks, these kids in uniform are there because they want to be there!

Yep, the All Volunteer Force is no longer a patriotic duty, it's a job!

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peace is tolerance
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Posted by: pirjan on Sep 24, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Lakum din kum Wal yu din". To you be your faith to me mine. AlQuran. "You do not go to paradise because you are Muslim Christian Jew but for your deeds". Alquran

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» Best post Posted by: weathered

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"It's in God's hands now"
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Posted by: misencikjc on Sep 24, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reminds me of a time just before leaving for OIF II. Some contractor came in to chastise the Marines for not having armored doors on the humvees. Some officers in the room explained that we needed to be able to see out and wave at kids and other nonsense. The contractor, a bit shocked at the ignorance attempted to argue at which point he was shut up by the thundering pronouncement from some colonel that the discussion is over because "It's in God's hands now."

Great. Just f#$king great. The lesson here is that whenever you can't have a reasonable conversation, just defer to a symbol of mass delusion. Awesome.

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Accept the Prince of Peace or I'll kill you
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Posted by: Crazy H on Sep 24, 2009 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Continuing the fine tradition of spreading the gospel of love at the point of a sword.

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» What was that Preparation H? Posted by: GuitarBill

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WE ARE NOT A THEOCRACY
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 24, 2009 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Muslim countries have their religion ingrained into every facet of their lives. that's the way it's been for a very long time. It only stands to reason that it is part of their motive to wage war or to protect themselves. We, on the other hand get to choose a religion or take a pass on it altogether. While I can picture the Founding Fathers, I believe we've come a long way since 1620. The constant reminders of who they were and what they believed is an important part of our history. It is not our rule book. We have evolved into a diverse nation. We can't be expected to design our lives around the way the 'founding fathers' lived. We can't be expected to join forces in some cultish way and become a huge Christian Force to be reckoned with. The Muslims have always been the way they are and like the rest of the world most of them are OK people. The current effort to unite us for some religious cause is offensive to me. I have a religion and they aren't big on killing. This is also America. Religion is optional. I like it that way. ANNA

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» You know this how? Posted by: dkm

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Who are the real terrorists and? Who are insulting Christianity?
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Posted by: hilaryuk on Sep 24, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Terrorism must mean the spreading of terror. Avowedly Christian Americans have done that on an industrial scale - dwarfing the horrors of 9/11 - in two Islamic countries.

Jesus preached, above all else, that God is love. He never advocated violence, he never suggested that faith could be inculcated by means of violence. So these avowedly and aggressively "Christian" soldiers are self-evidently betraying their Messiah and wilfully misunderstanding his central message.

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The Antithesis of Christs Life & message...aka Satanists
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 24, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really whocan these equate their 'crusade' with Christ, who never brandished a weapon, never recurited Soldiers and never attempted to mount an Army. No tduring his Life, nor according to St John upon his Second Coming. A True Christian Knows, and reveres the Fact that Christ wins the 'Final Battle' by merely speaking The Word.
It was the Romans who brandished weapons, had soildiers and commanded Armies. It is Satan who is so weak that he requires the assistance of blood thristy Armies, and still loses.
Christ did not even go door to door spreading his message- he stood in the open and allowed people to come to him....Or for that matter walk away.
It is not Chrisitanity if it is at the point of a gun. That's not just heresy, it's Satanic.
Christianity is a perfectly good religious philosphy- When practice correctly.As is Islam and Judeism when followed as they were intended.

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USA, Christian Nation, and "Family Values".......
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 24, 2009 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is, has been, and continues to be more killing by humanity in the name of "Religion" throughout the millinea! I realize that Americans hate to remember history but does no one remember: The Inquisition, The Crusades, the European Pogroms, the slaughter of the Native Nations under "American" expansion to the west, Bosnia-Slovenia, I could go on, and on, and on - but I think you get the point!

The truth is man in his unquenchable thirst to "control other" is continuously fighting his fellow man! They can call it "spreading freedom", "keeping democracy safe", "fighting terrorism", whatever - in the end it is about one man or group dominating another and for what?!

If people really believed in those books Bible/Koran/Torah that they continue to thump on, they would actually practice in their lives those tenets of: Loving your neighbor, Treating others as you want to be treated, Laws against Usury, Loving G-d with all of your heart, Do Not Lie-Cheat-Steal, Honor your Parents, etc., before they come messing around in my bedroom or doctors office (I might have more respect for them if they did)! Until then, YOU LIE now go- shut up, sit down on that mountaintop, and wait for your SAVIOR to come and take you away! Or wait, maybe your SAVIOR has already come, and you've been LEFT BEHIND, in which case, WELCOME TO HELL!

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We were founded on the principle of religious freedom..
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Posted by: djnoll on Sep 24, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
from the Pilgrims and the Puritans to our Founding Fathers. We have an entire military and political system that seems to have taken on this Crusader-mentality, fostered by the former administrations and their debt to the Religious Right movement which seems to hold that Might is Right and nothing else.

We are a nation that seems to have become hellbent on tearing apart the world, militarily, economically, and religiously. We must take back this insanity and stop what we are doing. We need to make our leaders understand this, and we need to do so in great numbers. We must make them see us.

For months now I have encouraged people to do this in their communities, but I realize that this will not be sufficient. So on October 18, 2009, I will leave my home and start a journey across this great nation to Washington, DC. I will stop in a variety of towns and along the way to talk to people and to ask them to join me in one of two ventures:

1. A National March on DC to send a message to all Americans, the President, and Congress that we are not happy with being run by a military-industrial complex that is killing the children of the world, their futures, or our way of life.

2. On a local level, a National Work Strike for one day - November 3, 2009 - to correspond with the March. I am asking people to stop the businesses within their communities, to stop the trucks and trains with freight, to stop unloading at our ports, to stop banking and stock trading for one day, and instead go and stand in front of their town halls, governor's offices, and state legislatures and send the message, peacefully, WE ARE AMERICA - HEAR US ROAR! WE ARE NOT SLAVES - AND YOU WORK FOR US!

I am asking people of all backgrounds, ages, genders, races, religions, and political beliefs to unite on November 3, 2009, and show the world that the vast majority of us are not bigots or racists or political and religious fanatics, but that we are now going to demand better of ourselves, those who lead us, and those corporations who have taken over our government and the world.

Please go to
Let Freedom Ring.Community
to find out more about this.

If we are to put a stop to this kind of religious zealotry in our military, they need to know that we will not tolerate it, and that we are so vast in numbers and common cause that we can stop them and those who would lead us down such a wrong path.

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They are spending our money promoting religion.
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Posted by: shanaza on Sep 24, 2009 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Half our taxes go to the bloated / wasteful Department of Offense. That any of it is being used to promote religion is unconstitutional and ethically wrong.

We are paying living expenses for those soldiers; while doing so they are obligated represent this country and should not be allowed to take their religion outside their little chapel. The argument should be about funding and how the funds are used.

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It all come down to just one !
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Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One God! Wars, crusades whatever they are called are nothing more than a sand box fight over who has the one and only way to worship HIM. Time to put religion into the sandbox and bury it. The Elitists are laughing all the way to the bank. The Elitists want a world FREE of RELIGION so that they can have it all to themselves. With soldiers going off to war like the sheeple they are, the goal is within sight. The Elitists do NOT believe in God so they just sit back manufacturing weapons in hopes of 4 or 5 Billion people kill off each other. So far, good start!!!

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The Conspiranoid Song!
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Posted by: GuitarBill on on Sep 24, 2009 12:27 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conspir annoyed, conspir annoyed,
Conspiranoid all the way.
Con spear annoyed, con spear a noid,
conspiranoid open sleigh.












































'you can trust the government' - Al Qaeda

Online privacy when it counts

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» RE: No, I'm the REAL GuitarBill! Posted by: GuitarBill on
» RE: The Conspiranoid Song! Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Chriss Rodda
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Sep 24, 2009 3:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You wrote:

"The evangelizing and proselytizing of Iraqi and Afghan Muslims by private religious organizations and U.S. military personnel also had to be exposed and stopped -- particularly the materials and media available via the Internet and television that could be used by Islamic extremists as propaganda for recruiting purposes."

So the fact that it may function as a recruiting tool is your only objection? Couldn't you have come up with something deeper, something more empirical, scientific?

How about holding up values and morals that the US espouses, but rarely delivers? Couldn't that have served as the basis for your argument?

How about discussing the hypocrisy of it?

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Reality Is Being Lost – Chris Rodda Apparently Believes In Islam, The facts:
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 24, 2009 3:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reality Is Being Lost – Chris Rodda Apparently Believes In Islam, The facts:

INTRODUCTION:

Chris Rodda said the following with respect to what he called profiling:

[[” And, on the Islamic community in the U.S. and racial profiling:

"We need to see more patriotism and less terrorism, and especially on the part of the Islamic community in this country, who are good at nothing but complaining about every single thing instead of standing up and working with us in fighting the enemy in our country."’ [source - 10 Ways the U.S. Military Has Shoved Christianity Down Muslims' Throats, By Chris Rodda, Talk To Action. Posted September 23, 2009].]]

But reality and common sense dictates that if a white man robs a bank that you do not look at black men as suspects; likewise if members of Islam are involved in terrorism, you do not look at little old Jewish grandmothers as possible suspects. Common sense dictates you look at only those who could possibly be involved. Why look elsewhere?

Just today, an article showed the common sense of only looking at those who might possibly be involved in terrorism:



Of course, this is not an isolated event, but an altogether too common of an event. Obviously, some forget 9/11/2001, but they should not:

For details, go to the following:

[1] linked text

And,

[2] linked text

And,

[3] linked text

And,

[4] linked text


Also, I challenge everyone to show any factual error in what I have said and/or the four articles giving the detail.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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All I can say is "Thank You"!!!
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Posted by: corey on Sep 24, 2009 3:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for people like Chris Rodda to keep bringing to light the dangers on the fundamentalist Christians in our country.

These fundamentalists make us less safe, and will be the reason for another 9-11.

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faith based initiatives
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Posted by: maxsmart on Sep 24, 2009 4:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has no doubt been a crescendo of fervor with Bush and the sense of some kind of apocalyptic entitlement. I would expect the faith based initiatives unleashed on our country to be rife with bizarre and unorthodox social programs and social manipulation. Why haven't we heard much about it. It must be thoroughhly investigated.

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CONtradiction
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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Sep 24, 2009 6:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
*singing to the tune of hallelujah*
CON tra diction
contradiction
contradiction
CON tra diction
CON TRA DICTION!

New Testament contradicts things in the Old Testament. Vengeful, hate filled god versus an "all loving" god. Old Testament contradicts itself. New Testament contradicts itself. Jesus is a peacemaker and loves everyone. Jesus brings his rejecters to a lake of fire where there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I'm so very tired of the contradictions that religious people simply REFUSE to see. They truly see no contradiction. That's the problem. They see how OTHER PEOPLE might INTERPRET such things as contradictions, but they themselves never really see the contradictions.

Jesus was a peacemaker. Blessed are the peacemakers. Jesus brought not peace but a sword. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Those who do not believe in me, bring them before me and kill them. Turn the other cheek.

I'm sick to my stomach whenever I think about the countless contradictions in Jesus' statements. Even MORE sick to my stomach when you have little "moderate" Christians trying to act tough and bash the fanatics of their faith, by saying that Jesus was this loving, caring figure. HE WASN'T!!! He advocates throwing men women and children into a burning pit for all eternity if they don't believe in him.

The only real message behind the "gentle Jesus, tender and mild," is the "Patience, Monty... climb the ladder," and "Oh, you'll get yours one day, but in the mean time, I'm going to pretend to be nice to you."

The point is that ALL religion is bunk. In the words of Bill Maher, "Religion must die for mankind to survive."

Jew, Christian, Muslim. They're all cut from the same homicidal, homophobic, xenophobic, patriarchal anti-feminist cloth.

All three have an unhealthy obsession with sexuality because it's a taboo concept in their faiths.

All three have violent, bronze-age texts that their followers are expected to live their lives by.

All three have difficulty being tolerant of others. Yes, even the Jews. They went through the horrors of the Holocaust and apparently didn't learn one damned thing, because they arrived in Palestine and started killing off Muslim and Christian Palestinians.

There is no reason that we're in the year 2009 and the entire world is still arguing and fighting and at each others' throats over who is right and who is going to hell.

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» RE: CONtradiction Posted by: Rey Hinckley

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Reality Check – Islam Responsible For All
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Posted by: iris89 on Sep 25, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reality Check – Islam Responsible For All

Look at the facts presented daily in the news, such as,

[1] Feds: Suspect hit beauty stores for bomb supplies, By TOM HAYS and DEVLIN BARRETT, Associated Press Writers Tom Hays And Devlin Barrett, Associated Press Writers - 14 mins ago, retrieved from