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Why President Obama Can't Let Himself Be Blackmailed by His Generals

Obama's war zone commanders are trying to box in his options and have him send thousands more troops to Afghanistan. Here's why he shouldn't give in to the pressure.
September 23, 2009  |  
 
 
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Afghanistan policy has been under review by the Obama administration, and a classified recommendation written by Gen. Stanley McChrystal apparently was submitted to President Barack Obama on Aug. 3 recommending increasing troops in Afghanistan.

Two days ago, the report was leaked to the press.

This leak could not have been inadvertent, as the leaked copy had been heavily redacted, with classified materials deleted. It is hard to see this as anything but an attempt to box in Obama and put pressure on him to agree to more troops, whether any good strategy supports investing more troops, or not.

But before anyone, let alone Obama, starts bending to military pressure, let's ask how much deference U.S. generals deserve.

We all respect the commitment and sacrifice of American soldiers -- they are doing difficult and dangerous work few of us would want to do, and they do it under terrible conditions, tremendous pressure and great threat to life -- but should the military establishment and its misadventures be beyond criticism?

Georges Clemenceau, former French prime minister and the French war minister who negotiated the Versailles Treaty to end World War I, once said, "War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military."

He had watched Allied generals misperceive and misunderstand strategy and become bogged down in deadly trenches for four years, killing millions in the process. Do our generals deserve any more respect? Is their advice any better?

For most of the past 60 years, the American military mostly has been unprepared for the conflicts America has gotten into, starting with Korea.

Fifteen years after Korea, the military was planning to fight a land war with the Soviet Union, but not a jungle war in Vietnam; it lacked the training and equipment for jungle combat, and it had no clue either how to fight an insurgency or how to contest the political aspects of the war, which ultimately led to American defeat.

Thirty years later, after not anticipating 9/11, the military still was equipped mainly to fight a massive land war in Europe, not an insurgency, either in Iraq or Afghanistan, and again has failed to comprehend the political dimensions of those wars.

We have spent, and continue to spend, a gigantic (and unsustainable) portion of the nation's treasure on defense -- in the process crowding out important social services -- but has the national security state and overreliance on the military provided security?

It has built hugely expensive weapons systems that have little or no relevance to current threats, yet it failed to anticipate and avert 9/11; it has failed to bring to justice its chief architects; it has failed to devise an effective response to Islamic extremism; it has failed to provide security in Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the expenditure of $3 trillion (when downstream costs are considered); and, it has abandoned America's reputation for being a just nation that adheres to law and ideals.

If this were a business, would anyone invest in it?

The competence level of the American military is not something to be emulated; it is closer to the level of General Motors and Wall Street. Gen. David Petraeus and McChrystal are no more worthy of admiration than the progression of incompetent CEOs who drove GM into the ground and the crooks who pilfered the public with exotic financial instruments for their short-term profit.


Guy T. Saperstein is a past president of the Sierra Club Foundation; previously, he was one of the National Law Journal’s "100 Most Influential Lawyers in America."
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Afghanistan is Part of the Plan ... Of World Domination ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 23, 2009 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Afghanistan a keystone in our Grand Plan to control the world militarily ... for the ownership of and access to, oil, nat gas and strategic resources.

Despite explicit promises to the USSR to never expand NATO we have expanded NATO to encircle Russia... missiles in Poland to protect us from Iran! LOL! Even Obama had to give up that charade ... Europe is on board with all of it.

Despite the Non-Proliferation Treaty we are giving India, not a signatory country, technology and knowledge to build a bigger and more effective nuclear arsenal, to counter China ...

We have effectively used traditional suspicions and hatreds to divide Northern Asia between Japan- Korea and China.

These developments are reminiscent of the tactics the Brits used to divide and antagonize Continental Europe into engaging in disastrous wars for centuries in order that Britain maintain its supremacy ...

Now the United States has adopted these tactics on a grand scale to preserve its military hegemony.

What we are up against is the Military Industrial Complex with the Banksters and the grand plan of the shadow government through the CFR ( Council on Foreign Relations), the Trilateral Commission and the real powers behind the privately owned and operated Federal Reserve.

The goal of the now dissolved Project for the New American Century, Total World Domination, is still the operating theme for the American and European Elites even today. Obama has embraced this idea and continues Bush's Wars, encirclement of Russia, antagonism of China, the militarization of Africa, South America, the Arctic and outer space ... Afghanistan is just the tip of the iceberg.

The question is: How soon to we go bankrupt? And what follows? The answers are probably soon and even more war ...

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» ... EXACTLY...and to add Posted by: Zimbly
» RE: Maybe even JFK was no JFK. Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Paranoia Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Paranoia Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Paranoia Posted by: Cybershaman
» Now I understand your role, Posted by: EncinoM
» What happened to PNAC... Posted by: zigy
» RE: What happened to PNAC... Posted by: mmckinl
» Thanks... Posted by: zigy

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The U.S. Did Not Lose In Indochina
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Sep 23, 2009 12:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fifteen years after Korea, the military was planning to fight a land war with the Soviet Union, but not a jungle war in Vietnam; it lacked the training and equipment for jungle combat, and it had no clue either how to fight an insurgency or how to contest the political aspects of the war, which ultimately led to American defeat.

Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia were lucky to survive the savage U.S. attack against them.

And an imperial power doesn't just win a war, but insists that victims of its imperial violence must pay it an indemnity for the privilege of having been destroyed:

Hanoi Agrees to Pay Saigon's Debt to U.S.

Kingdom seeks debt relief

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More Excuse Making For Obama
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Sep 23, 2009 12:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it's not the fault of the Republicans, then it must be the fault of the generals if Obama decides to keep his campaign promise to escalate HIS aggression against Afghanistan. This is a civilian government and this is HIS policy. He is McChrystal's boss, not the other way around.

A better way of framing this issue is when the hell are the people in the anti-war movement going to get off their asses and do something about Obama's escalation of the war?

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I thought that something like this....
Posted by: laurenaislinn on Sep 23, 2009 1:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
would happen--as soon as he 'changed his mind' in the campaign. It seemed to me I'd seen this before. A young inexperienced, centrist Democratic president inherits a war that the military wants to escalate, just as he (again) negotiates cuts in the nuclear arsenal..... Hmmm....Seems like we've been through this before--the Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis & Vietnam w/Kennedy.
We most definitely have another Vietnam on our hands. But this time we don't have the troops, the money or the public backing.

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dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Sep 23, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, of course it is vital that the US President and not the generals make that key tactical decision over Afghanistan.

No nation will for long accept military occupation by another - most particularly Afghanistan. Probably any American president would have invaded Afghanistan after "9/11" and the Taliban government's refusal to co-operate over Al Qaeda, particularly when an invasion had world-wide support or at least tacit acceptance.

But success obviously depended on keeping that support, and instituting a crash programme to rebuild Afghanistan after crippling decades of war. A crash programme because the occupation, no matter how beneficial to the inhabitants, would lose popular support after 3 - 4 years.

But probably only President G W Bush would have invaded Iraq in order to realise the neo-conservatives' Project for a New American Century (PNAC). The master idea was that occupying Iraq would give the US strategic control over the Middle East and thus clinch the attempt to ensure American planetary hegemony - or uni-polar world.

For reasons we among many others warned about in 2002, Iraq imploded and became the quagmire - or "Vietnam" - it remains.

Forced by the deadly consequences of the invasion to give Iraq total priority over Afghanistan, there was little rebuilding and growing opposition to the occupation now dragging into its 7th year.

It is probably too late now for any American administration to pacify Afghanistan. The only hope must be to internationalise the stabilisation of Afghanistan by re-assembling so far as possible that world-wide support G W Bush enjoyed before he threw it away in Iraq confronting the world powers by trying to achieve that uni-polar world.

This is not impossible - for all countries that matter, from Russia and China to Iran, India and Pakistan - including the Arabs and Israel - have a major national interest in a stable Afghanistan and the suppression of international terrorism.

What is needed is the political wisdom to see that the generals cannot achieve this. But they can perhaps buy some time while such international support is gathered. The signs are that President Obama is working in this direction. But he needs that limited time and a great deal of support from his allies - and (perhaps the key to wider support), from Russia.

Sadly the US itself is so bitterly divided. Too few Americans give wholehearted support to the extraordinarily able president whom they have elected.

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» I thank you, leafsong1 Posted by: David/Daoud
» RE: dipconsult Posted by: badkitty

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Peace is an option
Posted by: proffordisabilities on Sep 23, 2009 2:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know this message will be greeted with a lot of jeers, in our masculine controlled and backed society who have so much more progesterone = adrenaline than women who "just think too much", but suppose while we are occupying these nations (OK guys you get to take your guns), instead of shooting around, their jos is to distribute food, clean water, donations of gently used clothes, books for their libraries, blankets, load the boat HOPE with medical supplies and vaccinations and then protect the doctors who go out to the villages to bring them medicine,etc. Actually, my own Doctor does this for his two weeks off every summer, a very good man.

Oh, I know this is really so naieve of me, but taking home our fighting troops, saving zillions of dollars, the population of America can GIVE in any way they can, even money if they have it (I, myself am a laid off professor) what ever way is convenient, knowing that this is a huge stab at peace. It also seems to me that with adequate troops of Peace Troops in each area, helping, hugging the little ones as they offer them to pick a toy, a full length mirror for teens and parents to see how items of clothing would look on them to actually be able to care what they looked like, to have new books to read in their schools, to have medicine, Red Cross trucks, blankets for the winter, food, clean water, and candy bars. Do you think that their leaders would try to resist such a charitable contribution and distribution. Of course, the date and places of the distribution should be advertised well in advance, not so that forces should be there to greet them with bullets, nay, but so that their own people will be there with open hands and open arms and rejoice to Allah who has sent them these good people who want them to stay alive, and to know we will be back with more supplies , and we won't let thier lives get snuffed out like the last candle in the darkness. And they will await our return. How can you fight kindness with a gun...the thing is, you can't, and if they try, they loose, their own people will turn on them and shoot if they must, togther on behalf of their children, sick and malnourished, yes, they will shoot their own soldiers who keep them down.

Well, that's all I wanted to say. You could use this strategy anywhere, the peace with love strategy, the don't let the civilians die strategy, the give them hope strategy. And I'll tell you it would take less than half the troops, less than a quarter the money, and we give away all these things to other countries anyway (so much of it is donated), so...we're not winning it with guns, guys, and I believe you are risking your lives every day, and I pray each day not another one of you falls, you are our American Heroes, but wouldn't you rather bring them a box of Peace for a change?

Well, Honorable President Obama and your Generals over there, I know this is just a suggestion, but my French Canadian Mom always said if you want to lure your enemy, you don't put out a bowl of vinegar, you put out a bowl of honey. Peace 101. Thanks Mom, and say Hi to Dad for me.

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» bragging about helping?? Posted by: Anthhh
» RE: Peace is an option Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Peace is an option Posted by: cy31b

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US civilians are military prisoners
Posted by: Anthhh on Sep 23, 2009 3:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
__
If the Antiwar movement tries anything to stop the war Obama will control them the same way Bush did. HE openly promised the joint chiefs that he would make sure the civilian "side of the ledger"(*google the keywords) cooperates fully.

Notice how the propaganda is infiltrating the major AND minor tv channels..all of them. And they try to SEEM fair and balanced by saying semi harmful things about the war. they they are like: "There we said it" But the information is nothing we can use, and never solves any problem at all. And Americans still dont know a single IRAQI's NAME other than Saddam Hussien.
Our civilian telivison is military.

Our civilian Government is military.
_____

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Yet......
Posted by: shill on Sep 23, 2009 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...if Mr. Obama does NOT go along with the generals, he will be called "weak on defense" by every right wing talk show host out there and vilified in the mainstream media. And a majority of Americans will BUY it because even after Vietnam, we have not yet learned our lesson. We have NO God given right to impose our world views on other countries DESPITE what our military/industrial establishment and politicians say. Sure, Mr. Obama SHOULDN'T go along with the generals' request for more troops in Afghanistan; we need to bring the troops home....period! But he will.

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» RE: Yet...... Posted by: VZEQICVA

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bragging about helping
Posted by: Anthhh on Sep 23, 2009 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nazi American-style.
You invade a country that never harmed you. To destroy the infrastructure, kill the Taxi drivers, Farmers, Journalists, Companys, Water, Medical, Teachers, Engineers, Fishermen, Highway, ect. Kill millions. Making whatever survivors dependant upon begging to live. And Then you BRAG about giving them help as you set up and protect your OWN corporate profiting via your own ARMED FORCES & CIvilian Mercenaries. A war crime
Economic Colonization Is A War Crime

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General McChrystal Westmoreland Warns of Defeat if He Doesn’t Get More Troops
Posted by: Lese Majeste on Sep 23, 2009 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Washington: Though only yesterday President Richard Barack Nixon Obama insisted that the decision on more troops for Afghanistan, Vietnam “could wait” and declined to even indicate when he might make such a decision, his top commander in Afghanistan, Vietnam is suggesting a decision needs to be made, and soon.

General Stanley McChrystal William Westmoreland's heavy redacted assessment of the war, which was submitted to Secretary Melvin Laird "Bobbie" Gates weeks ago, cautions that if he doesn’t get significant amounts of additional troops within the next 12 months the war will “likely result in failure.”

And while it had been reported before that Gen. McChrystal Westmoreland had requested 40,000 troops, the general is now seeking as many as 45,000 more troops, on top of the 68,000 already there and the 3,000 troops already approved earlier this month. The General stated in no uncertain terms that he was "going to hold his breath" until he got more toys.

Secretary of State Henry Hillary Kissinger Clinton said "We must fight the Viet Cong Taliban bad guys over there, or else we'll be fighting them in your backyard!"
"We know that Americans will gladly turn over all their money and sacrifice all of their offspring to fight these wars for Wall Street and Israel, anything else would be 'un-American,' said the Secretary Henry Hillary Kissinger Clinton.

The WH indicated that it had proof that Laos, Iran and Cambodia were sending troop into Afghanistan, Vietnam and was in high level talks with Israel to decide on how to deal with these insurgents.

When asked by a reporter at the press conference if the Gulf of World Trade Center Tonkin attack was a 'false-flag,' the WH stated that only 'anti-Semites' and whackos believe that kind of nonsense.

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how military performs
Posted by: alookdavis on Sep 23, 2009 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
some times , the military role like the high power led light bulbs ,if u didn't illuminant properly , people will come fight with u , why military didn't do their job , why not protect our people . But if Military performs toooo over , people will come to u again , why did this , did that .Yr light bulbs toooo bright . there is Contradictionary ..

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» Your language skills Posted by: barefeet

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Obama is a War Hawk
Posted by: lsmart on Sep 23, 2009 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. He kept Bush's war hawks in his administration.
2. When he was a Congressman, Obama voted YES to continue funding the wars.

He's not a peace keeper. He's a war hawk.

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» RE: Obama is a War Hawk Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Obama is a War Hawk Posted by: Basenjis

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Obama is Pawn of FED
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Sep 23, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is obvious from Obama's appointments to date and who he is considering to appoint to positions regarding foreign relations that part of the deal with the "powers that be" is that he continue to promote the "fake war against terror", the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to secure the oil and natural gas resources and the continued stealing of the remaining resources of this country by the Federal Reserve Bank.

Obama was groomed by these people in a short period of six years, starting with getting him elected to the U.S. Senate and then his rise to the presidency. There was no need to steal this election by computer fraud and voter suppression since the "powers that be" already had placed "their man" on each party's ticket.

The "powers that be" won this election as soon as they marginalized or more accurately politically assassinated Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.

go to www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos.

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» Hypocrite. Posted by: GuitarBill

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Obama-Front Man for New World Order
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Sep 23, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "powers that be" who stole the 2000 and 2004 election did not have to steal this one since they had already groomed both candidates to do their bidding.

During the campaign,it was clear to me that Obama had struck a deal with the "powers that be" that he would not Interfere with the military-industrial oil private central bankers complex. He made it clear that he thought the war on terror was legitimate and that the official 9/11 conspiracy theory was basically accurate. He made it clear that he would use military force against Iran when he spoke before AIPAC. He made it clear that he was in the pocket of the Israeli lobby. He never mentioned anything about electronic voting machines stealing presidential elections.

Now, after he has been elected, his appointments make it clear that he will do nothing about the fake war on terror, electronic voting machines, the elimination of the Federal Reserve Bank and the commencement of the federal government again printing our money, the prosecution of the Bush administration for war crimes, treason, 9/11 and mass murder.
It'll be business as usual since the "powers that be" will not have it any other way. Why would they give up the control that they gained by using Bush as their lackey.

For many articles and videos on these topics, go to www.911insidejob.net

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» WARNING: TROLL BAITING ALERT ! Posted by: LStinson1988

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moodotv
Posted by: Moodotv on Sep 23, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Guy T. Saperstein for telling it all the way it is! This must be read in detail by President Obama and really, everyone!

How come I, a housewife age 77, know all this and those generals and midgets and other incompetents do not?

Time for POTUS to find his spine and use what is left of his capital.

Thank you for the great quotation from Georges Clemenceau: "War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military."

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» RE: moodotv Posted by: VZEQICVA

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HARRY TRUMAN WAS NOT REELECTED AFTER FIRING MACARTHUR
Posted by: kc10ken on Sep 23, 2009 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Harry Truman fired General Macarthur in 1951.

Truman was reelected in 1948.

Truman decided not to run again in 1952.

As a combat Veteran I can honestly tell you that there aren't too many of us Veterans out here who support this debacle in Afghanistan. Joe Biden has it right, reduce the number of American troops and perform small, precise surgical strikes utilizing special forces against the Taliban and Al Queada.

Did we not learn a damn thing from the Soviets, who occupied Afghanistan for 11 years and went home with their tails between their legs after loosing over 58,000 troops???

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ALTERNET STILL MAKING EXCUSES FOR OBAMA
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 23, 2009 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ALTERNET:
YOU SAY:
"It is hard to see this as anything but an attempt to box in Obama and put pressure on him to agree to more troops",
REALLY?!!!!?
IT IS HARD FOR THE REST OF US TO SEE ALTERNET AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A TOOL FOR ELITIST, CORPORATIST, WARMONGER OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS (WHO ARE IN THE MAJORITY LAST TIME I LOOKED).
YES, THIS WAS LEAKED TO THE PRESS INTENTIONALLY TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT OBAMA HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO SEND MORE TROOPS TO AFGHANISTAN.
I MEAN IT'S THE GENERALS RUNNING THE COUNTRY, RIGHT? NOT THE PRESIDENT?
KNOCK OFF THE LAME ATTEMPT, ALTERNET, TO BRAINWASH PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING OBAMA IS A NICE GUY.
OBAMA HAS:
CONTINUED WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN
GIFTED BANKS WITH THE PEOPLE'S MONEY AS REWARD FOR STEALING THE PEOPLE'S MONEY
INTRODUCED MANDATE FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES FORCING PEOPLE TO BUY INSURANCE (THAT DON'T HAVE THE MONEY IN THE 1ST PLACE)
THERE IS MORE TO COME.
SUPPORT DENNIS KUCINICH TO RUN AGAIN. HE IS IN CONGRESS CONSISTENTLY VOTING FOR THE PEOPLE.
WAKE UP PEOPLE AND STOP VOTING FOR THE SMOOTH TALKING PRETTY FACES!

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Bribery
Posted by: WoodoMomo on Sep 23, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But that is what the US political system is all about is it not??

Jess
Online Anonymity when it Counts

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» RE: Bribery Posted by: Moodotv

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what?!
Posted by: Deadline0602 on Sep 23, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Generals can only advise and execute a politicians policy. They don't dictate the policy. The military has always executed plans excellently. It is the policy makers that control the funding and direction for which the military makes its plans. If they are unprepared it isn't because of the decision making of Generals and Admirals, but the policies and budgets that they are allowed to work with and under. The writer should learn more about that before criticizing the military. They are the tools of national security, not the policy makers.

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» RE: what?! Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: what?! Posted by: VZEQICVA

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Very good assessment
Posted by: ETSpoon on Sep 23, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Quite frankly, the conduct of whatever one chooses to call the situation in Afghanistan it is clearly out of the control of the civilian leadership in the United States. The Democratic Congress at this time may say it opposes more troops for the Afghan theater and the president may demure but General McChrystal will in the end prove persuasive. Meekly, and under cover of darkness, the general's request for more troops will be approved.

The Frankenstein's monster which the late neoclassical economist and "free market-Jesus" Milton J. Freidman created at the behest of the crafty Richard M. Nixon, who out maneuvered and manipulated the effete suburban, coordinator class anti-Vietnam war activists at every turn, is clearly in the driver's seat in Afghanistan. And we, the American people, had better "click it, or ticket it!" for we are along for a very bumpy ride.

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Oh, cut the crap already
Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 23, 2009 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It is hard to see this as anything but an attempt to box in Obama and put pressure on him to agree to more troops, whether any good strategy supports investing more troops, or not."

It, like this article, can easily be seen as an attempt to persuade people that Obama is pursuing his policies because those who are sworn to obey his orders are "pressuring" and "blackmailing" him. Close observers of this administration have already detected the pattern: lofty goals are stated by the great orator, no credible steps are taken to achieve these goals, and though these goals are overwhelmingly popular and the administration is overwhelmingly in the majority, great pains are taken in the corporate media to persuade the public that they are doomed by political opposition. Obama shrugs, Big Business gets their way, and we are told to pity the poor, helpless, but nevertheless pure-hearted POTUS. Just how stupid do you think we are?

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» I'm curious Posted by: ETSpoon
» RE: I'm curious Posted by: leafsong1
» Let's keep our eyes on the ball Posted by: GatoPreto

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moodotv
Posted by: Moodotv on Sep 23, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If only everyone in the USA would read this story and every comment- including President Obama.
He needs to step back and take a look at what we are seeing (as he doesn't).

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Imperialism....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 23, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Why are we fighting the Taliban?

That's a good question that should have been pressed upon the last President that should have answered it but he dodged that too! And though by now everyone should recognize that it was for control of the OIL in the region, we deny it to ourselves to our own detriment. While the military may press for expansion the real question is expansion to do what exactly? What is the goal? This really does require a political solution, and the politics must be both internal to Afghanistan, along with help (advisors if you will), from the international community. While the Taliban provided safe harbor for al Quiada, they were the people in charge of the government, and our invasion of their sovereign nation was still illegal!

Truth be told the American military for all of their might and money spent, still don't have the weapons to wage a desert war, and lets face it al Quiada doesn't wear a uniform! So the indiscriminate killing whether by drones or our service-members doesn't make the Afghani's love us more! If this nation hasn't learned anything else we should all remember that you cannot impose "democracy" on a people from without, they must know it, want it for themselves, and be actively working toward that goal from within! And while we are on the subject, the US is not the police of the world! While other nations may appreciate the US ideals - freedom of speech, voting, freedom of religion, the ideal that you can make it through your own hard work - that does not mean that those people want all that comes along with it in their nations!

We as a nation need to get over ourselves! We don't have democracy here, just the appearance of it! We have corrupt politicians, a Corporate Oligarchy intent on dooming us to servitude, and a military that we've aimed at the world without a real mission! President Obama while he does need to bring our children home, really needs to do it as gracefully as possible to insure that a nation we invaded doesn't implode because we've lit the fuse!

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Think about How It Started
Posted by: C. Rich on Sep 23, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The start:

http://americaspeaksink.com/?s=9%2F11+view

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Even if you loved how the Taliban supported al Qaida -
Posted by: SteveA on Sep 23, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- and bin Laden's destruction of those buildings and the deaths of those thousands of people -
Why support a bunch of murderous people who rounded up innocents and machine-gunned them in the soccer stadium and stone women for trying to live free? Are you the person who gets a thrill out of cruelty? Of course, Ira Einhorn is that kind of guy, and he fits right in with your politics. I'd hoped some of us learned a lesson.

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» You "lost" me, eh wing-nut? Posted by: GuitarBill

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Obama chose the generals so I would not expect him to do what the author and us wish for.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 23, 2009 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expecting Obama to not bow down to his Generals' pressure would be like expecting Dubya to follow up on his 2000 campaign promise of no more nation building. We must also remember that Obama did promise to go after Af/Pak and since he is leaning more towards scoring political points of letting Mars rule instead of having a heart for the sweetheart civilians in Af/Pak who have nothing to do with terrorism, this article is sadly wishful thinking.

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Left Wing Fox
Posted by: tmgibs on Sep 23, 2009 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is another straw man argument from Alternet. I will be surprised if they don't get their own TV fair and balanced "news" show soon.

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SO FAR I LIKE WHAT I SEE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 23, 2009 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
General McChrystal is not accustomed to being questioned by ANYONE. He has a reputation as a tough warrior and I have to believe he's arrogant and conceited. It goes with the territory. When we need a tough military leader we should have one. But we can't invent circumstances just to give this guy a job. His job is what his Commander in Chief says it is. If Obama chooses to avoid deaths and casualties it's up to McChrystal to implement a strategy to suit that goal. He's not there to set his own agenda. And "success" is a lousy choice of a word to describe the end game in Afganistan. Succeed at what? ANNA

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Bush gutted the military, and left only the people who agreed with him.
Posted by: Quannah on Sep 23, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are no "good" generals left. He fired them. He fired the moderate generals. He left the worst of the worst, the ones like Petraeus and McChrystal who went along with the atrocities, who supported and ordered torture, who didn't mind breaking the law in order to give Bush what he wanted. And they were rewarded.

Obama is Commander in Chief. The Pentagon leaking this report is tantamount to mounting an insurrection from within. It's treasonous.

Instead of bitching and moaning about this, those of us who support withdrawal need to be writing everyone involved, we need to be planning demonstrations, we need to be pulling together.

Oh... that's right. We are incapable of pulling together. It's like herding cats.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Tuesday morning indicates that 39 percent of Americans favor the war in Afghanistan, with 58 percent opposed to the mission.

This should be easy. But, instead, people who oppose the escalation will just come to forums like this one and bitch and complain.

Ho hum.

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Robert Olive
Posted by: RSOlive on Sep 23, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guy Saperstein is a brilliant attorney who hammered State Farm Insurance Co. for decades of sex discrimination in an early case netting over $100 million for his clients. It shaped the way for SF to handle the rest of us who tried with less success to emulate him. He has brought his perception to the political field here with the same blunt analysis one would expect of him. Generals are like any other source of leadership, neither more nor less brave than the PFC's and airmen and seamen that dodge the bullets they once did, and with neither more nor less ambition as a class that the corporate and political leaders of our nation. Their point of view in waging warfare should be given utmost respect, but their opinion on political strategy behind going to war, measuring the fallout of doing so or not doing so, and determining anything other than battlefield objectives within a war, is worth less than the opinion of any gifted military/political historian or qualified geo-political analyst. Obama should value the opinions of the War College's faculties (the best example being Col. Larry Wilkerson)over those of their commanders, just as he should value the opinion of the Judge Advocates General over that of any commanding general with regard to issues of law and justice.

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» RE: obert Olive Posted by: RSOlive

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545 VS. 300,000,000 - Sharing Important Realization
Posted by: Brb007 on Sep 23, 2009 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
545 PEOPLE
By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red ..

If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.


(continued in next post, final segment)

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545 VS. 300,000,000 - Sharing Important Realization, PT II
Posted by: Brb007 on Sep 23, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(cont.)Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

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» Alternet doesn't get it Posted by: Sgellero
» wow! Posted by: henderson

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gilhowcan
Posted by: gilhowcan on Sep 23, 2009 11:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guy Saperstein is almost right, but not severe enough, and somewhat historically wrong.

The military or Pentagon people who leaked this story to the Washington Post were clearly insubordinate and this is unacceptable, even in redacted form. If it was a general, no matter who, that officer should be fired. Any military officer would throw the book at a subordinate who committed even a minor act such as this. The President is Commander-in-Chief. Our civilian government is superior to the military. Behavior like this in other countries leads to junta takeovers.

Saperstein is wrong in some history. Harry Truman was elected president only once, in 1948. He was elected vice president in 1944, and Roosevelt dangerously kept him in the dark about situations he would inherit a few months later.

President Truman fired General Douglas MacArthur in the spring of 1951 after his own single election as president in 1948. Truman decided not to run for re-election in 1952, possibly because he had virtually served two full terms, possibly because he knew that the politics of Korea would cause him to lose. But Truman was never "re-elected" after firing MacArthur in 1951 because he never ran for the office after that.

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Ain't gonna make no war no more!
Posted by: Nitestallion on Sep 23, 2009 11:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here comes the Harp . . . I told you so! 'Enough said. Impeach Barack Obama do not hand me excreta about his not having had a chance to prove himself. He has not done the right thing with his treatment of Bush: "It is time to move on . . .” Yes sir, it is time to move on with the Impeachment of Bush for high crimes against the constitution. If you can't keep your word get out of that office!

One cannot leave a war only to start or escalate another and expect to be taken seriously! We have NO BUSINESS in Afghanistan and should GTFO! What part of: WAR IS A RACKET don't you politicians get?

Hey, little General of this or that American Military. One of your own two time Medal of Honor recipient Major General Smedly D. Butler wrote the book on the observation above he even titled it WAR IS A RACKET. Why don't you all read it and find out why? I for one am not a racketeer.

So mister Obama when did you become one?

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gilhowcan
Posted by: gilhowcan on Sep 23, 2009 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To those who claim that President Obama selected Generals Petraeus or McChrystal, wrong. He inherited them. And this is only the beginning of Obama's 9th month in office. Time will tell what his imprint will be--if we suffer no military junta before that.

As for any who would defend this military insubordination, they do not know their history of the world, the U.S., or the military. And they are just as illiterate about law.

Making snotty unsubstantiated comments and spreading lies, like the thugs who composed the mobs at the August town hall meetings --or like Congressman Joe Wilson of S. Carolina and his defenders like Congressman John Boehner and Senator Lindsey Graham--only detracts from the atmosphere necessary to resolve our problems. Such people are not only dissenters, they are truly unamerican! They are leading this country into a dangerously comic imitation of a banana republic.

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Unbelievable Coincidence Strikes AGAIN :.?
Posted by: stellabloo on Sep 23, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it me or does the timing of this latest FBI terrorist sting stink higher than a dead skunk on a hot day?

Source: Feds seek about a dozen people in terror investigation

Considering they haven’t had an arrest like this in years and just when the the high cost of the Global War on Everything is starting to overshadow the high cost of public health care and the high cost of bailing out Wall Street?

Coincidentally I was just reading about Dr. Edward Barclays yesterday, nephew of Sigmund Freud and inventor of the modern PR campaign. He was hired by Woodrow Wilson to bring the US into WWI. Joseph Goebbels was an admirer and certainly an apt pupil, but the reality is that Barclays went on to work for the American administration right up until the Kennedy years. His specialty was mass mind control. I KID YOU NOT :.(

CNN Exposed

… which is really just a no-brainer article saying that the interests of every form of media that requires funding are dictated by the interests providing the necessary funding?

But then there’s this:

Top 20 Republican Party donors with UK or USA consumer brands

Hmmm, GE (airplane engines, radios etc) , Exxon-Mobil (oil) , and Time-Warner, corporate owner of CNN.

Not to mention this:

Lobbying: Top Spenders

Oh my - GE, Exxon-Mobil, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing …. You don’t have to be a political scientist to see that things are starting to look very bad for the rest of us :.(

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Ve're a civilian dominated policy society, except when we forget that, and vote for demopublicans.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 23, 2009 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whilst I don't subscribe to CNN/YourPoliticalViews, I respect them

Shame we don't get something out of our 'radical change' besides the status quo.

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Midgets and incompetents
Posted by: badkitty on Sep 23, 2009 12:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love it--at last, a concise description of the caliber of our military leadership today. I hope Obama stalls, and then says "Gee, I've studied this carefully, there's no way we can win this, so we're out by December 2010 at the latest." Then he can cut the military budget and some generals can retire.

It's a big day for Berkeley, two articles on Alternet's homepage by people from Berkeley (even if Guy may have moved to Oakland after he won that big lawsuit).

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president precedents
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 23, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we'll never know for certain, but the mythology has it that JFK was finally taking Ike's advice about the military-industrial complex and was seeing the light in general. there's even some evidence that marilyn monroe got him to try LSD, which sure shows a lot of people the light. we see where this got that president.

in 1976, carter was running for the presidency. half his poer came from the fact that he'd had nothing to do with the vietnam war, watergate or the like. he was promising to cease arms sales to the shah of iran. he was also promising to decriminalize marijuana and seek alternatives to the drugwar in general. as a result, his campaign coffers were greatly enlarged by the fact that rock bands such as the grateful dead, allman brothers, fleetwood mac and others were giving benefit concerts for carter's campaign.

when carter was inaugurated, as is the gray tradition, the first thing he did was get aboard an air force one jet with the joint chiefs of staff and intelligence figures. when he got off that plane, it was like the manchurian candidate or invasion of the body-snatchers... carter then made the largest arms sale ever to the tyrant shah and made no move ever about pot or the drugwar. indeed, CIA and DEA poisoned tons of pot farms in mexico with paraquat then refrained from telling americans about this vicious crime until long after much of that pot had been smoked - essentially an attack on the wellbeing of millions of americans made as if on an enemy people and in complete secrecy. carter said nothing and did nothing about it. and carter was still one of the best of men in that office in the past century...

obama has become obamabush as i expected, but to a degree that has shocked even a skeptic like me. on the 2nd day after his inauguration, with the words "we don't stand for torture" still on his lips from 60 Minutes days before; he mandated continuing the CIA rendition program of outsourced torture. he did this again recently in the midst of further torture revelations he helps obscure and go unprosecuted. while claiming to be ending the illegal iraq war; he plans to maintain an occupational force of 50,000 troops and 100,000 contractor thug-mercenaries there indefinitely. he;s expanded the afpak war and followed right in the footsteps of corporate-communist bush with trillions in giveaways to the very crooks who schemed this global economic disaster.

from june of 1968 on, 60% of americans ro mroe wanted out of vietnam. but in a demockery, what the people want means nothing and that war didn't end until 1974, 6 years and 1.3 million viet deaths later, (plus 30,000 americansoldiers deaths.) right now 60% of americans want out of the afpak war. my guess is that the will of the people will again be spat on and obama will pursue these war crimes as directed by the military, intelligence and the corporatist war-profiteers of wall street.

2 years ago, obama was cornered on fox nes by bill oreilley about the fact that obama's family minister and longtime friend was on record as saying that america was founded and always based upon racist genocide. obama turned on his old friend and said, "no good american believes those things he says." well, considering that there were once some 20 million 'indians' in 1500 living on the land now called america and that this was just 1 million left alive by 1900... and considering that some 8 million africans were killed in the hundreds of years of the slave trade in the process of bringing some 10 million blacks here to build a country they had virtually no stake in. that history is undeniable to all but liars and the utterly ignorant. what obama did was act as a holocaust denier, even ignoring what was done to his own race - not a man to trust.

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president precedentspart 2
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 23, 2009 12:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
prior to the fox news holocaust denial incident dismissing the native and african genocides... another treacherous turncoat event was this... obama had been an outspoken supporter of palestinian rights in the face of israel's oppression, militarism and police state. that is, he WAS pro-palestinian until the moment when AIPAC put funds into his senate campaign and he walked into the senate one of themany in the AIPAC club.

it should be noted that while nader, for example, had been fighting the fascists/corporatists/warmongers (same thing), since 1960 with integrity and determination (and couldn't even get into the debates...); obama had a lacklustre 4 years in the senate before running for the presidency. he didn't fight bush in any way on the wars, torture, bailouts or anything else. obama did not sponsor or present any significant bill to the congress, zip. the simple fact is that he has yet to accomplish anything of magnitude except get himself elected with half-black skin.

in other words, the idea that the military needs to blackmail obama is wrongheaded. he has already shown himself to be one of their 'team players.' he will no more fight the military-intelligence community than he has stood up for single-payer or fought the healthcare-pharma-insurance cabal.

i hope i'm mistaken, but i tend to think that obama will also be drawn into a south american conflict to reimpose yankee and multinational powers as the rule there. with venezuela, bolivia, ecuador and paraguay refusing US army bases and posing a near-united anti-imperialist front that includes chile, argentina uruguay and perhaps soon, peru... other than uribe's colombia, the only holdout is brazil, the elephant in the closet. note the continuing backing of uribe and the new US army bases to be located there. typically disgraceful, the US has solidly backed uribe, a known death squad despot who has given the school of the americas plenty of trainees for courses in torture, terror and mayhem.

looking on the bright side, afghanistan has for 2500 years been known as the graveyard of empires. what brought the soviet union crashing down was its overextension there. if the US adds a war against latin american bolivarianism (easily justified by the imperialist monroe doctrine); this evil empire might go the way of that other evil empire, the USSR. then perhaps we can gain global grassroots traction to shut down the other evil empires in our midst, like china, russia, israel, iran, saudi arabia, etc.

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Lets Face It Americans Can't Celebrate Anything Except Being The Top A"R"S"E"HOLES on The Planet
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 1:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ASSHoles In American

We might like you if we hadn't told you to fuck off - because you were all complete and utter religious maniacs and never got over it and responded by bombing the planet to fuck and are still doing it...

We sent the Criminals to Australia and they turned out Lovely

But You Religious Cunts - Cant You Just Either Get Rid Of All Your Weapons and Explosives or Just Blow The Entire Fucking Place Up. Leave The Rest Of The World Out Of It - You Have Already Killed 99% of Native American Indians

Meanwhile we Love

250 years of Guinness with Arthur's Day

The Celebrations of which start in 2 hours 40 minutes Irish Time

Now Fuck Off and Have a Pint Of Guinness Instead

Tony

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BOB WOODWARD TO THE RESCUE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 23, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the General has some explaining to do. I used to trust the military unconditionally. No more. When they were appearing on news programs talking about how well things were going, and getting paid big bucks to push the Iraq war it made me sick. They stopped it, but what a disgrace they are. What happened to their loyalty. Woodward, I trust.
ANNA

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» RE: BOB WOODWARD TO THE RESCUE Posted by: badkitty

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Look - I Do Know About The Detail Of How The CIA Finance Their Black Operations..
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My Wife Is Such An ANGEL

But She Would Attack The Thief Remorselessly Until He Gave Us Our Money Back

We could both have been naked on the beach

Do you know how difficult it is to even get back to your tent - that might also have been stolen when you are just both naked on the beach after swimming naked in the warm sea - and some cunt has stolen all your clothes and money and home?

As it was he just took all our money

Since arriving at University on Sunday, She has sent us a total of two texts in total the Word Count is 9 words.

That is all we have got back...

Except from her friend Dorothy who lives across the road and is not starting University until next week...

Katy has told Dorothy everything...

We let our Children Fly Free

She will be back briefly on Friday passing through to go to Rockcorps and meet all her friends there.

She looked beautiful dancing on TV - but the band looked completely ridiculous in a boxing ring.

Rockcorps

I think it is a brilliant idea cleaning up rubbish and planting flowers and gardens for 4 hours if you are a kid and care about your community

For Free

Except You Get To a Totally Brilliant Gig - as well as being on National TV

I think she said Razorlight are playing

I said - scream for them to do the best ever song that lasts about 1 minute 36 seconds from memory

Rip It Up

Tony

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Raise a Glass To Arthur Guinness - 250 Years of Farting Water Converted To Be Safe To Drink
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 2:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans are just people who drop bombs all over the world hoping they can control it without ever actually having met any of the People of the World except behind The Barrell of a Gun or a Computer Game in Las Vegas where they can bomb people remotely 9-5 in the Office and then go home to their wives bragging how many terrorists they have killed from their desk in the office

The People who run the EU are just a bunch of Communists who think they are going to take Control of The World through the the total and complete and utter bollocks of CO2 causing Global Warming

And they are planning to switch off all the power

Whilst people like you and me supply it - and tell them you are completely insane and you people "in power" are an embarassment - and have already been replaced

And we have decided to keep the power on

Tony

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I Wrote a Couple Of Articles This Morning About Nuclear Power and Religion
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 3:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just wrote them on The Fly Direct on Craig Murrays website...

I didn't save them locally on my PC...

But I told the truth - and was completely sober when I wrote them

But his website is down yet again

But Craig Murray's Courage Is Still Alive And Well

Even If We Completely Disagree with him -and he deletes what we say

We would never delete Craig Murray - because he is the Real Thing

Not The Fictional James Bond

But Craig Murray The Real British Ambassador

Who Tells Americans and Every Fucking Cunt

You Can't Do That

You Cannot Boil People Alive To Try and Get Information From Them

That is TORTURE

And The US and UK Government and All Subcontracted Agencies and Countries Are WAR CRIMINALS

And We Are Going To Get You Cunts on Trial For War Crimes Against Humanity

Tony

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I Didn't Say No You Can't Do That - Just Prove That It Works
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 4:07 PM   
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And I Proved Conclusively - By Very Serious Testing That The Solution Provided By The Americans Simply Didn't Work - Under The Most Extreme Forms of Possible Attack

So I still used The DEC Hardware and OS because it was the Best in the World After IBM had wasted ICL - and used the skills I had learnt at ICL in West Gorton Manchester to Build The Most Reliable Major Computer System In The World For The Specific Application I was being paid to provide.

I was being paid realtive peanuts - but the money didn't matter - the working application - supported by 24x7 by automatic detection of every possible problem I could think of by various remote means - and I always had my pager and mobile switched on - and could respond even when on holiday - because I personally cared so much about 12 Million people and a service that would automatically switch to whatever was surviving and take on the entire load...

Get the gist - sure the above needs rewriting

But what the fuck

I am retired now

I tried my best

Tony

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It almost makes me think that the U.S. military was never intended to have efficacy...
Posted by: zigy on Sep 23, 2009 4:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
rather (perhaps) its real purpose, persuent to the military-industrial complex model is simply to make a lot of money (for the m.i. establishment at least)while making a mess of everything. Blow it up then build it up then blow it up again. Make money coming and going.... I believe it was the late General Smedley Butler who famously said, "war is a racket...."

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kitty, kitty, pus, pus, - come and drink your global warming CO2 milk
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 4:45 PM   
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So Exactly How Do You Get Such a Stupid People To Disarm Their Nuclear Weapons?

Its like dealing with a group of 3 year olds armed with live machine guns complete with bullets who are in the play centre in the shopping mall and have been playing war games on their older brother's playstation

How do you coax them away?

Tell them kitty kitty pus pus - come and drink your global warming CO2 milk?

Tony

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And The Rest Of The World Is Not Afraid Of The WANKERS
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 5:32 PM   
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We can have any system of money we choose...

I am currently cooking tomatoes from my garden and garlic from a Greek Girls Garden - and other stuff from ther peoples gardens...

Sure we traded Euros and Pounds and Friendship - because despite the language differences people in Europe do get on

Americans or Dollars were never even thought of

Have you gone bust yet?

Tony

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if he doesn't "give in"
Posted by: scearfo on Sep 23, 2009 5:37 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to the brass, don't be surprised if he is assassinated by yet another "misfit loner" looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

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Americans Now Realise They Personally Have To Rebuild All The Cities They Have Destroyed Themselves
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 5:55 PM   
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With their own hands and materials mined in America and transported to the Countries they have destroyed in order to achieve forgiveness

Whilst paying Restitution and saying Sorry in an enormous way for something that really is unforgivable

Do you Realise what you have done?

Tony

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And In The Greek Islands They Get Lots Of Israeli War Veterans Traumatised By The Palestinian Kids
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 6:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have personally killed.

The Israeli Vets have a great deal of difficulty relating to the most simple questions and it is almost impossible to have a normal conversation with them...

What struck me particularly was how white their skin was compared to mine - but I guess that is because nearly all of them come from a much colder climate that Northern Lancashire

They have absolutely fuck all to do with Palestine - except some twat in Southern Russia/North Eastern Greece decided about 1300 years ago to adopt the Jewish Religion...

I mean how completely fucking stupid can you get?

Why not just fuck off back home - just like the Yanks - and leave the Semite People to get on with their lives without you racist Russians fucking them up.

I mean for Fucks Sake - isreal is The Shit Hole of The World - Northeren Greece and Russia is far nicer - it even rains there and you can grow food.

I do realise that it is us British who have totally fucked you and the Palestinians over...

But the Palestinians were always really nice - whilst you Khazzar cunts have fucked off everyone wherever you have been.

Its not surprising that there are so few of you

No one actually wants to make babies with you

Tony

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Which Bit Didn't You Understand?
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 6:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am English and Come from Oldham through Largely Celtic Decent

I Couldn't Give a Fuck What The Colour of Your Skin Is - Nor What Stupid Nonesne You Believe in...

But If You Are Going To Kill, Torture and Mutilate People based on the basis that they don't believe your stupid fucking religion or you don't like the colour of their skin

Then I am going to be a complete CUNT to You By Telling You Directly To Your Face If You Like What I think of You

If You Want To Kill Me - then Go ahead

I Have No Fear of You

Tony

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Ohhh, generals....
Posted by: kedikat on Sep 24, 2009 12:54 AM   
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As I skimmed the page I thought it said those other things that always seem to be blackmailing us men.....

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I would never trade my amazing friends, my wonderful life, and my loving family for less gray hair o
Posted by: flymulla on Sep 25, 2009 5:42 PM   
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I would never trade my amazing friends, my wonderful life, and my loving family for less gray hair or a flatter belly. As I have aged, I have become kinder to myself, and less critical of myself. I have become my own friend. I don't chide myself for eating that extra cookie, or for not making my bed, or for buying that silly cement gecko that I didn't need, but looks so Avanti grade on my patio. I am entitled to a treat, to be messy, to be extravagant.
I have seen too many dear friends leave this world too soon; before they understood the great freedom that comes with aging.
Whose business is it if I choose to read or play on the computer until 4 AM and sleep until noon? I will dance with myself to those wonderful tunes of the 60 &70's, and if I, at the same time, wish to weep over a lost love ... I will.
I will walk the beach in a swimsuit that is stretched over a bulging body, and will dive into the waves with abandon if I choose to, despite the pitying glances from the jet set.
They, too, will get old, if they are lucky.
I know I am sometimes forgetful.
However, there again, some of life is just as well forgotten. Moreover, I eventually remember the important things.
Sure, over the years my heart has been broken. How can your heart not break when you lose a loved one, or when a child suffers, or even when a car hits somebody’s beloved pet? But broken hearts are what give us strength and understanding and
compassion. A heart never broken is pristine and sterile and will never know the joy of being imperfect.
I am so blessed to have lived long enough to have my hair turning gray, and to have my youthful laughs be forever etched into deep grooves on my face.
So many have never laughed, and so many have died before their hair could turn silver.
As you get older, it is easier to be positive. You care less about what other people think. I don’t question myself anymore.
I have even earned the right to be wrong.
So, to answer your question, I like being old. It has set me free. I like the person I have become. I am not going to live forever, but while I am still here, I will not waste time lamenting what could have been, or worrying about what will be. And I shall eat dessert every single day (if I feel like it).
MAY OUR FRIENDSHIP NEVER COME APART ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE HEART!
MAY YOU ALWAYS HAVE A RAINBOW OF SMILES ON YOUR FACE AND IN YOUR HEART FOREVER AND EVER! FRIENDS FOREVER!
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla

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Obama
Posted by: cbstogner on Sep 27, 2009 1:38 PM   
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I believe Obama is doing a great job and being strong for America. mortgage calulator mortgage rates bad credit loans investools

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HEADLINE HEADACHES 4 DEMS
Posted by: reelman on Sep 28, 2009 10:17 AM   
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HEADLINE HEADACHES FOR DEMOCRATS

Iran conducts third round of missile tests…
‘Could reach Israel’…
Revolutionary Guards begin war games…
Venezuela exploring uranium deposits with Russia…
China to display upgraded missiles in parade…
India raises nuclear stakes; Can make high-yield weapons…

Modern history since Jimmah “Misery Index” Carter was elected tells us loud and clear that the democrat party has two easily seen fatal flaws…one is the economy…if you don’t know that you are in denial but the other is actually as dangerous…its foreign policy.
(But then who ever pays attention to historical facts or patterns?)

The democrat nominees always pontificate about their policy to “word charm and frown down” thug dictators and islamic hate states.
Its no coincidence so many global thugs have words of support for democrat nominees. Look them up for yourself. Upon election the global thugs have a huge party and start pushing America around. They know history. They know the demo-socialists would rather cut our military spending in half and buy votes expanding socialism with it. The pattern never changes.

Here we go again, its J. Carter Obama, master pacifist pansy, fiddling and apologizing weekly as the threats multiply.
Meanwhile, back in reality-land, the global kooks are ramping up the dangers. No problem, Obama and Hillary will huff and puff the threats away. Such is the approach of the modern liberal. They always trust the untrustworthy. Reality is never an option.

The average voter has a persistent queasy feeling about the economy but will have a foreign policy migraine by spring.
The democrat party sees no evil but us and believes all they do not see. Do they read the same September headlines?

How does the demo-socialist party react?
Tea parties are domestic nazis or terrorists or mobs, the vast right wing conspiracy baloney reappears as does those “do nothing demon” Republicans. OBL is still a free man and islamic Americans are pushing states and boards around while building islamic schools. You go figure.

How much blame-shifting, pandering, postponing and liberal rainbow dust before the day of our horror?
Nuclear poker is not for the spineless. Perhaps Israel will save themselves and postpone that day for America…perhaps.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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Okay, once again...
Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 5, 2009 11:31 PM   
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Has anyone noticed that right next to Afghanistan is another country that is eye-deep in Taliban and other groups trying to take it over? Or that that country has perhaps a score or more of nuke weapons, that would go to the winner?

It's no mystery to me, why Obama is taking the strategic view, as he should in this case. What's mysterious is why everyone seems to be piling on him about it.

Ask yourself: do you WANT the Taliban to come out of it in ownership of a dozen nukes? Or Al-Qaida? If you don't, then support our President in aiding the Pakistani government to beat the Taliban.

Don't be confused that Afghanistan is not Pakistan -- they'll sink or swim together. And don't be confused that Afghanistan is "like" Vietnam -- it's not. There is no deep-pockets enemy supporting them behind the scenes, no impenetrable jungle to hide them from our infra-red detecting birds or missiles. Their best hope is that we will lose the will to finish what should be finished.

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why not
Posted by: rrrbert on Oct 20, 2009 7:39 PM   
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Alternet Comments:

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Afghanistan is Part of the Plan ... Of World Domination ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 23, 2009 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Afghanistan a keystone in our Grand Plan to control the world militarily ... for the ownership of and access to, oil, nat gas and strategic resources.

Despite explicit promises to the USSR to never expand NATO we have expanded NATO to encircle Russia... missiles in Poland to protect us from Iran! LOL! Even Obama had to give up that charade ... Europe is on board with all of it.

Despite the Non-Proliferation Treaty we are giving India, not a signatory country, technology and knowledge to build a bigger and more effective nuclear arsenal, to counter China ...

We have effectively used traditional suspicions and hatreds to divide Northern Asia between Japan- Korea and China.

These developments are reminiscent of the tactics the Brits used to divide and antagonize Continental Europe into engaging in disastrous wars for centuries in order that Britain maintain its supremacy ...

Now the United States has adopted these tactics on a grand scale to preserve its military hegemony.

What we are up against is the Military Industrial Complex with the Banksters and the grand plan of the shadow government through the CFR ( Council on Foreign Relations), the Trilateral Commission and the real powers behind the privately owned and operated Federal Reserve.

The goal of the now dissolved Project for the New American Century, Total World Domination, is still the operating theme for the American and European Elites even today. Obama has embraced this idea and continues Bush's Wars, encirclement of Russia, antagonism of China, the militarization of Africa, South America, the Arctic and outer space ... Afghanistan is just the tip of the iceberg.

The question is: How soon to we go bankrupt? And what follows? The answers are probably soon and even more war ...

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» ... EXACTLY...and to add Posted by: Zimbly
» RE: Maybe even JFK was no JFK. Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Paranoia Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Paranoia Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Paranoia Posted by: Cybershaman
» Now I understand your role, Posted by: EncinoM
» What happened to PNAC... Posted by: zigy
» RE: What happened to PNAC... Posted by: mmckinl
» Thanks... Posted by: zigy

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The U.S. Did Not Lose In Indochina
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Sep 23, 2009 12:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fifteen years after Korea, the military was planning to fight a land war with the Soviet Union, but not a jungle war in Vietnam; it lacked the training and equipment for jungle combat, and it had no clue either how to fight an insurgency or how to contest the political aspects of the war, which ultimately led to American defeat.

Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia were lucky to survive the savage U.S. attack against them.

And an imperial power doesn't just win a war, but insists that victims of its imperial violence must pay it an indemnity for the privilege of having been destroyed:

Hanoi Agrees to Pay Saigon's Debt to U.S.

Kingdom seeks debt relief

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More Excuse Making For Obama
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Sep 23, 2009 12:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it's not the fault of the Republicans, then it must be the fault of the generals if Obama decides to keep his campaign promise to escalate HIS aggression against Afghanistan. This is a civilian government and this is HIS policy. He is McChrystal's boss, not the other way around.

A better way of framing this issue is when the hell are the people in the anti-war movement going to get off their asses and do something about Obama's escalation of the war?

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I thought that something like this....
Posted by: laurenaislinn on Sep 23, 2009 1:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
would happen--as soon as he 'changed his mind' in the campaign. It seemed to me I'd seen this before. A young inexperienced, centrist Democratic president inherits a war that the military wants to escalate, just as he (again) negotiates cuts in the nuclear arsenal..... Hmmm....Seems like we've been through this before--the Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis & Vietnam w/Kennedy.
We most definitely have another Vietnam on our hands. But this time we don't have the troops, the money or the public backing.

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dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Sep 23, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, of course it is vital that the US President and not the generals make that key tactical decision over Afghanistan.

No nation will for long accept military occupation by another - most particularly Afghanistan. Probably any American president would have invaded Afghanistan after "9/11" and the Taliban government's refusal to co-operate over Al Qaeda, particularly when an invasion had world-wide support or at least tacit acceptance.

But success obviously depended on keeping that support, and instituting a crash programme to rebuild Afghanistan after crippling decades of war. A crash programme because the occupation, no matter how beneficial to the inhabitants, would lose popular support after 3 - 4 years.

But probably only President G W Bush would have invaded Iraq in order to realise the neo-conservatives' Project for a New American Century (PNAC). The master idea was that occupying Iraq would give the US strategic control over the Middle East and thus clinch the attempt to ensure American planetary hegemony - or uni-polar world.

For reasons we among many others warned about in 2002, Iraq imploded and became the quagmire - or "Vietnam" - it remains.

Forced by the deadly consequences of the invasion to give Iraq total priority over Afghanistan, there was little rebuilding and growing opposition to the occupation now dragging into its 7th year.

It is probably too late now for any American administration to pacify Afghanistan. The only hope must be to internationalise the stabilisation of Afghanistan by re-assembling so far as possible that world-wide support G W Bush enjoyed before he threw it away in Iraq confronting the world powers by trying to achieve that uni-polar world.

This is not impossible - for all countries that matter, from Russia and China to Iran, India and Pakistan - including the Arabs and Israel - have a major national interest in a stable Afghanistan and the suppression of international terrorism.

What is needed is the political wisdom to see that the generals cannot achieve this. But they can perhaps buy some time while such international support is gathered. The signs are that President Obama is working in this direction. But he needs that limited time and a great deal of support from his allies - and (perhaps the key to wider support), from Russia.

Sadly the US itself is so bitterly divided. Too few Americans give wholehearted support to the extraordinarily able president whom they have elected.

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» I thank you, leafsong1 Posted by: David/Daoud
» RE: dipconsult Posted by: badkitty

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Peace is an option
Posted by: proffordisabilities on Sep 23, 2009 2:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know this message will be greeted with a lot of jeers, in our masculine controlled and backed society who have so much more progesterone = adrenaline than women who "just think too much", but suppose while we are occupying these nations (OK guys you get to take your guns), instead of shooting around, their jos is to distribute food, clean water, donations of gently used clothes, books for their libraries, blankets, load the boat HOPE with medical supplies and vaccinations and then protect the doctors who go out to the villages to bring them medicine,etc. Actually, my own Doctor does this for his two weeks off every summer, a very good man.

Oh, I know this is really so naieve of me, but taking home our fighting troops, saving zillions of dollars, the population of America can GIVE in any way they can, even money if they have it (I, myself am a laid off professor) what ever way is convenient, knowing that this is a huge stab at peace. It also seems to me that with adequate troops of Peace Troops in each area, helping, hugging the little ones as they offer them to pick a toy, a full length mirror for teens and parents to see how items of clothing would look on them to actually be able to care what they looked like, to have new books to read in their schools, to have medicine, Red Cross trucks, blankets for the winter, food, clean water, and candy bars. Do you think that their leaders would try to resist such a charitable contribution and distribution. Of course, the date and places of the distribution should be advertised well in advance, not so that forces should be there to greet them with bullets, nay, but so that their own people will be there with open hands and open arms and rejoice to Allah who has sent them these good people who want them to stay alive, and to know we will be back with more supplies , and we won't let thier lives get snuffed out like the last candle in the darkness. And they will await our return. How can you fight kindness with a gun...the thing is, you can't, and if they try, they loose, their own people will turn on them and shoot if they must, togther on behalf of their children, sick and malnourished, yes, they will shoot their own soldiers who keep them down.

Well, that's all I wanted to say. You could use this strategy anywhere, the peace with love strategy, the don't let the civilians die strategy, the give them hope strategy. And I'll tell you it would take less than half the troops, less than a quarter the money, and we give away all these things to other countries anyway (so much of it is donated), so...we're not winning it with guns, guys, and I believe you are risking your lives every day, and I pray each day not another one of you falls, you are our American Heroes, but wouldn't you rather bring them a box of Peace for a change?

Well, Honorable President Obama and your Generals over there, I know this is just a suggestion, but my French Canadian Mom always said if you want to lure your enemy, you don't put out a bowl of vinegar, you put out a bowl of honey. Peace 101. Thanks Mom, and say Hi to Dad for me.

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» bragging about helping?? Posted by: Anthhh
» RE: Peace is an option Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Peace is an option Posted by: cy31b

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US civilians are military prisoners
Posted by: Anthhh on Sep 23, 2009 3:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
__
If the Antiwar movement tries anything to stop the war Obama will control them the same way Bush did. HE openly promised the joint chiefs that he would make sure the civilian "side of the ledger"(*google the keywords) cooperates fully.

Notice how the propaganda is infiltrating the major AND minor tv channels..all of them. And they try to SEEM fair and balanced by saying semi harmful things about the war. they they are like: "There we said it" But the information is nothing we can use, and never solves any problem at all. And Americans still dont know a single IRAQI's NAME other than Saddam Hussien.
Our civilian telivison is military.

Our civilian Government is military.
_____

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Yet......
Posted by: shill on Sep 23, 2009 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...if Mr. Obama does NOT go along with the generals, he will be called "weak on defense" by every right wing talk show host out there and vilified in the mainstream media. And a majority of Americans will BUY it because even after Vietnam, we have not yet learned our lesson. We have NO God given right to impose our world views on other countries DESPITE what our military/industrial establishment and politicians say. Sure, Mr. Obama SHOULDN'T go along with the generals' request for more troops in Afghanistan; we need to bring the troops home....period! But he will.

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» RE: Yet...... Posted by: VZEQICVA

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bragging about helping
Posted by: Anthhh on Sep 23, 2009 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nazi American-style.
You invade a country that never harmed you. To destroy the infrastructure, kill the Taxi drivers, Farmers, Journalists, Companys, Water, Medical, Teachers, Engineers, Fishermen, Highway, ect. Kill millions. Making whatever survivors dependant upon begging to live. And Then you BRAG about giving them help as you set up and protect your OWN corporate profiting via your own ARMED FORCES & CIvilian Mercenaries. A war crime
Economic Colonization Is A War Crime

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General McChrystal Westmoreland Warns of Defeat if He Doesn’t Get More Troops
Posted by: Lese Majeste on Sep 23, 2009 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Washington: Though only yesterday President Richard Barack Nixon Obama insisted that the decision on more troops for Afghanistan, Vietnam “could wait” and declined to even indicate when he might make such a decision, his top commander in Afghanistan, Vietnam is suggesting a decision needs to be made, and soon.

General Stanley McChrystal William Westmoreland's heavy redacted assessment of the war, which was submitted to Secretary Melvin Laird "Bobbie" Gates weeks ago, cautions that if he doesn’t get significant amounts of additional troops within the next 12 months the war will “likely result in failure.”

And while it had been reported before that Gen. McChrystal Westmoreland had requested 40,000 troops, the general is now seeking as many as 45,000 more troops, on top of the 68,000 already there and the 3,000 troops already approved earlier this month. The General stated in no uncertain terms that he was "going to hold his breath" until he got more toys.

Secretary of State Henry Hillary Kissinger Clinton said "We must fight the Viet Cong Taliban bad guys over there, or else we'll be fighting them in your backyard!"
"We know that Americans will gladly turn over all their money and sacrifice all of their offspring to fight these wars for Wall Street and Israel, anything else would be 'un-American,' said the Secretary Henry Hillary Kissinger Clinton.

The WH indicated that it had proof that Laos, Iran and Cambodia were sending troop into Afghanistan, Vietnam and was in high level talks with Israel to decide on how to deal with these insurgents.

When asked by a reporter at the press conference if the Gulf of World Trade Center Tonkin attack was a 'false-flag,' the WH stated that only 'anti-Semites' and whackos believe that kind of nonsense.

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how military performs
Posted by: alookdavis on Sep 23, 2009 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
some times , the military role like the high power led light bulbs ,if u didn't illuminant properly , people will come fight with u , why military didn't do their job , why not protect our people . But if Military performs toooo over , people will come to u again , why did this , did that .Yr light bulbs toooo bright . there is Contradictionary ..

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» Your language skills Posted by: barefeet

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Obama is a War Hawk
Posted by: lsmart on Sep 23, 2009 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. He kept Bush's war hawks in his administration.
2. When he was a Congressman, Obama voted YES to continue funding the wars.

He's not a peace keeper. He's a war hawk.

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» RE: Obama is a War Hawk Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Obama is a War Hawk Posted by: Basenjis

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Obama is Pawn of FED
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Sep 23, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is obvious from Obama's appointments to date and who he is considering to appoint to positions regarding foreign relations that part of the deal with the "powers that be" is that he continue to promote the "fake war against terror", the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to secure the oil and natural gas resources and the continued stealing of the remaining resources of this country by the Federal Reserve Bank.

Obama was groomed by these people in a short period of six years, starting with getting him elected to the U.S. Senate and then his rise to the presidency. There was no need to steal this election by computer fraud and voter suppression since the "powers that be" already had placed "their man" on each party's ticket.

The "powers that be" won this election as soon as they marginalized or more accurately politically assassinated Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.

go to www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos.

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» Hypocrite. Posted by: GuitarBill

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Obama-Front Man for New World Order
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Sep 23, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "powers that be" who stole the 2000 and 2004 election did not have to steal this one since they had already groomed both candidates to do their bidding.

During the campaign,it was clear to me that Obama had struck a deal with the "powers that be" that he would not Interfere with the military-industrial oil private central bankers complex. He made it clear that he thought the war on terror was legitimate and that the official 9/11 conspiracy theory was basically accurate. He made it clear that he would use military force against Iran when he spoke before AIPAC. He made it clear that he was in the pocket of the Israeli lobby. He never mentioned anything about electronic voting machines stealing presidential elections.

Now, after he has been elected, his appointments make it clear that he will do nothing about the fake war on terror, electronic voting machines, the elimination of the Federal Reserve Bank and the commencement of the federal government again printing our money, the prosecution of the Bush administration for war crimes, treason, 9/11 and mass murder.
It'll be business as usual since the "powers that be" will not have it any other way. Why would they give up the control that they gained by using Bush as their lackey.

For many articles and videos on these topics, go to www.911insidejob.net

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» WARNING: TROLL BAITING ALERT ! Posted by: LStinson1988

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moodotv
Posted by: Moodotv on Sep 23, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Guy T. Saperstein for telling it all the way it is! This must be read in detail by President Obama and really, everyone!

How come I, a housewife age 77, know all this and those generals and midgets and other incompetents do not?

Time for POTUS to find his spine and use what is left of his capital.

Thank you for the great quotation from Georges Clemenceau: "War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military."

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» RE: moodotv Posted by: VZEQICVA

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HARRY TRUMAN WAS NOT REELECTED AFTER FIRING MACARTHUR
Posted by: kc10ken on Sep 23, 2009 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Harry Truman fired General Macarthur in 1951.

Truman was reelected in 1948.

Truman decided not to run again in 1952.

As a combat Veteran I can honestly tell you that there aren't too many of us Veterans out here who support this debacle in Afghanistan. Joe Biden has it right, reduce the number of American troops and perform small, precise surgical strikes utilizing special forces against the Taliban and Al Queada.

Did we not learn a damn thing from the Soviets, who occupied Afghanistan for 11 years and went home with their tails between their legs after loosing over 58,000 troops???

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ALTERNET STILL MAKING EXCUSES FOR OBAMA
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 23, 2009 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ALTERNET:
YOU SAY:
"It is hard to see this as anything but an attempt to box in Obama and put pressure on him to agree to more troops",
REALLY?!!!!?
IT IS HARD FOR THE REST OF US TO SEE ALTERNET AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A TOOL FOR ELITIST, CORPORATIST, WARMONGER OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS (WHO ARE IN THE MAJORITY LAST TIME I LOOKED).
YES, THIS WAS LEAKED TO THE PRESS INTENTIONALLY TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT OBAMA HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO SEND MORE TROOPS TO AFGHANISTAN.
I MEAN IT'S THE GENERALS RUNNING THE COUNTRY, RIGHT? NOT THE PRESIDENT?
KNOCK OFF THE LAME ATTEMPT, ALTERNET, TO BRAINWASH PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING OBAMA IS A NICE GUY.
OBAMA HAS:
CONTINUED WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN
GIFTED BANKS WITH THE PEOPLE'S MONEY AS REWARD FOR STEALING THE PEOPLE'S MONEY
INTRODUCED MANDATE FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES FORCING PEOPLE TO BUY INSURANCE (THAT DON'T HAVE THE MONEY IN THE 1ST PLACE)
THERE IS MORE TO COME.
SUPPORT DENNIS KUCINICH TO RUN AGAIN. HE IS IN CONGRESS CONSISTENTLY VOTING FOR THE PEOPLE.
WAKE UP PEOPLE AND STOP VOTING FOR THE SMOOTH TALKING PRETTY FACES!

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Bribery
Posted by: WoodoMomo on Sep 23, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But that is what the US political system is all about is it not??

Jess
Online Anonymity when it Counts

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» RE: Bribery Posted by: Moodotv

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what?!
Posted by: Deadline0602 on Sep 23, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Generals can only advise and execute a politicians policy. They don't dictate the policy. The military has always executed plans excellently. It is the policy makers that control the funding and direction for which the military makes its plans. If they are unprepared it isn't because of the decision making of Generals and Admirals, but the policies and budgets that they are allowed to work with and under. The writer should learn more about that before criticizing the military. They are the tools of national security, not the policy makers.

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» RE: what?! Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: what?! Posted by: VZEQICVA

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Very good assessment
Posted by: ETSpoon on Sep 23, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Quite frankly, the conduct of whatever one chooses to call the situation in Afghanistan it is clearly out of the control of the civilian leadership in the United States. The Democratic Congress at this time may say it opposes more troops for the Afghan theater and the president may demure but General McChrystal will in the end prove persuasive. Meekly, and under cover of darkness, the general's request for more troops will be approved.

The Frankenstein's monster which the late neoclassical economist and "free market-Jesus" Milton J. Freidman created at the behest of the crafty Richard M. Nixon, who out maneuvered and manipulated the effete suburban, coordinator class anti-Vietnam war activists at every turn, is clearly in the driver's seat in Afghanistan. And we, the American people, had better "click it, or ticket it!" for we are along for a very bumpy ride.

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Oh, cut the crap already
Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 23, 2009 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It is hard to see this as anything but an attempt to box in Obama and put pressure on him to agree to more troops, whether any good strategy supports investing more troops, or not."

It, like this article, can easily be seen as an attempt to persuade people that Obama is pursuing his policies because those who are sworn to obey his orders are "pressuring" and "blackmailing" him. Close observers of this administration have already detected the pattern: lofty goals are stated by the great orator, no credible steps are taken to achieve these goals, and though these goals are overwhelmingly popular and the administration is overwhelmingly in the majority, great pains are taken in the corporate media to persuade the public that they are doomed by political opposition. Obama shrugs, Big Business gets their way, and we are told to pity the poor, helpless, but nevertheless pure-hearted POTUS. Just how stupid do you think we are?

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» I'm curious Posted by: ETSpoon
» RE: I'm curious Posted by: leafsong1
» Let's keep our eyes on the ball Posted by: GatoPreto

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moodotv
Posted by: Moodotv on Sep 23, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If only everyone in the USA would read this story and every comment- including President Obama.
He needs to step back and take a look at what we are seeing (as he doesn't).

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Imperialism....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 23, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Why are we fighting the Taliban?

That's a good question that should have been pressed upon the last President that should have answered it but he dodged that too! And though by now everyone should recognize that it was for control of the OIL in the region, we deny it to ourselves to our own detriment. While the military may press for expansion the real question is expansion to do what exactly? What is the goal? This really does require a political solution, and the politics must be both internal to Afghanistan, along with help (advisors if you will), from the international community. While the Taliban provided safe harbor for al Quiada, they were the people in charge of the government, and our invasion of their sovereign nation was still illegal!

Truth be told the American military for all of their might and money spent, still don't have the weapons to wage a desert war, and lets face it al Quiada doesn't wear a uniform! So the indiscriminate killing whether by drones or our service-members doesn't make the Afghani's love us more! If this nation hasn't learned anything else we should all remember that you cannot impose "democracy" on a people from without, they must know it, want it for themselves, and be actively working toward that goal from within! And while we are on the subject, the US is not the police of the world! While other nations may appreciate the US ideals - freedom of speech, voting, freedom of religion, the ideal that you can make it through your own hard work - that does not mean that those people want all that comes along with it in their nations!

We as a nation need to get over ourselves! We don't have democracy here, just the appearance of it! We have corrupt politicians, a Corporate Oligarchy intent on dooming us to servitude, and a military that we've aimed at the world without a real mission! President Obama while he does need to bring our children home, really needs to do it as gracefully as possible to insure that a nation we invaded doesn't implode because we've lit the fuse!

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Think about How It Started
Posted by: C. Rich on Sep 23, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The start:

http://americaspeaksink.com/?s=9%2F11+view

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Even if you loved how the Taliban supported al Qaida -
Posted by: SteveA on Sep 23, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- and bin Laden's destruction of those buildings and the deaths of those thousands of people -
Why support a bunch of murderous people who rounded up innocents and machine-gunned them in the soccer stadium and stone women for trying to live free? Are you the person who gets a thrill out of cruelty? Of course, Ira Einhorn is that kind of guy, and he fits right in with your politics. I'd hoped some of us learned a lesson.

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» You "lost" me, eh wing-nut? Posted by: GuitarBill

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Obama chose the generals so I would not expect him to do what the author and us wish for.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 23, 2009 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expecting Obama to not bow down to his Generals' pressure would be like expecting Dubya to follow up on his 2000 campaign promise of no more nation building. We must also remember that Obama did promise to go after Af/Pak and since he is leaning more towards scoring political points of letting Mars rule instead of having a heart for the sweetheart civilians in Af/Pak who have nothing to do with terrorism, this article is sadly wishful thinking.

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Left Wing Fox
Posted by: tmgibs on Sep 23, 2009 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is another straw man argument from Alternet. I will be surprised if they don't get their own TV fair and balanced "news" show soon.

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SO FAR I LIKE WHAT I SEE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 23, 2009 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
General McChrystal is not accustomed to being questioned by ANYONE. He has a reputation as a tough warrior and I have to believe he's arrogant and conceited. It goes with the territory. When we need a tough military leader we should have one. But we can't invent circumstances just to give this guy a job. His job is what his Commander in Chief says it is. If Obama chooses to avoid deaths and casualties it's up to McChrystal to implement a strategy to suit that goal. He's not there to set his own agenda. And "success" is a lousy choice of a word to describe the end game in Afganistan. Succeed at what? ANNA

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Bush gutted the military, and left only the people who agreed with him.
Posted by: Quannah on Sep 23, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are no "good" generals left. He fired them. He fired the moderate generals. He left the worst of the worst, the ones like Petraeus and McChrystal who went along with the atrocities, who supported and ordered torture, who didn't mind breaking the law in order to give Bush what he wanted. And they were rewarded.

Obama is Commander in Chief. The Pentagon leaking this report is tantamount to mounting an insurrection from within. It's treasonous.

Instead of bitching and moaning about this, those of us who support withdrawal need to be writing everyone involved, we need to be planning demonstrations, we need to be pulling together.

Oh... that's right. We are incapable of pulling together. It's like herding cats.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Tuesday morning indicates that 39 percent of Americans favor the war in Afghanistan, with 58 percent opposed to the mission.

This should be easy. But, instead, people who oppose the escalation will just come to forums like this one and bitch and complain.

Ho hum.

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Robert Olive
Posted by: RSOlive on Sep 23, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guy Saperstein is a brilliant attorney who hammered State Farm Insurance Co. for decades of sex discrimination in an early case netting over $100 million for his clients. It shaped the way for SF to handle the rest of us who tried with less success to emulate him. He has brought his perception to the political field here with the same blunt analysis one would expect of him. Generals are like any other source of leadership, neither more nor less brave than the PFC's and airmen and seamen that dodge the bullets they once did, and with neither more nor less ambition as a class that the corporate and political leaders of our nation. Their point of view in waging warfare should be given utmost respect, but their opinion on political strategy behind going to war, measuring the fallout of doing so or not doing so, and determining anything other than battlefield objectives within a war, is worth less than the opinion of any gifted military/political historian or qualified geo-political analyst. Obama should value the opinions of the War College's faculties (the best example being Col. Larry Wilkerson)over those of their commanders, just as he should value the opinion of the Judge Advocates General over that of any commanding general with regard to issues of law and justice.

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» RE: obert Olive Posted by: RSOlive

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545 VS. 300,000,000 - Sharing Important Realization
Posted by: Brb007 on Sep 23, 2009 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
545 PEOPLE
By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red ..

If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.


(continued in next post, final segment)

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545 VS. 300,000,000 - Sharing Important Realization, PT II
Posted by: Brb007 on Sep 23, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(cont.)Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

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» Alternet doesn't get it Posted by: Sgellero
» wow! Posted by: henderson

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gilhowcan
Posted by: gilhowcan on Sep 23, 2009 11:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guy Saperstein is almost right, but not severe enough, and somewhat historically wrong.

The military or Pentagon people who leaked this story to the Washington Post were clearly insubordinate and this is unacceptable, even in redacted form. If it was a general, no matter who, that officer should be fired. Any military officer would throw the book at a subordinate who committed even a minor act such as this. The President is Commander-in-Chief. Our civilian government is superior to the military. Behavior like this in other countries leads to junta takeovers.

Saperstein is wrong in some history. Harry Truman was elected president only once, in 1948. He was elected vice president in 1944, and Roosevelt dangerously kept him in the dark about situations he would inherit a few months later.

President Truman fired General Douglas MacArthur in the spring of 1951 after his own single election as president in 1948. Truman decided not to run for re-election in 1952, possibly because he had virtually served two full terms, possibly because he knew that the politics of Korea would cause him to lose. But Truman was never "re-elected" after firing MacArthur in 1951 because he never ran for the office after that.

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Ain't gonna make no war no more!
Posted by: Nitestallion on Sep 23, 2009 11:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here comes the Harp . . . I told you so! 'Enough said. Impeach Barack Obama do not hand me excreta about his not having had a chance to prove himself. He has not done the right thing with his treatment of Bush: "It is time to move on . . .” Yes sir, it is time to move on with the Impeachment of Bush for high crimes against the constitution. If you can't keep your word get out of that office!

One cannot leave a war only to start or escalate another and expect to be taken seriously! We have NO BUSINESS in Afghanistan and should GTFO! What part of: WAR IS A RACKET don't you politicians get?

Hey, little General of this or that American Military. One of your own two time Medal of Honor recipient Major General Smedly D. Butler wrote the book on the observation above he even titled it WAR IS A RACKET. Why don't you all read it and find out why? I for one am not a racketeer.

So mister Obama when did you become one?

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gilhowcan
Posted by: gilhowcan on Sep 23, 2009 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To those who claim that President Obama selected Generals Petraeus or McChrystal, wrong. He inherited them. And this is only the beginning of Obama's 9th month in office. Time will tell what his imprint will be--if we suffer no military junta before that.

As for any who would defend this military insubordination, they do not know their history of the world, the U.S., or the military. And they are just as illiterate about law.

Making snotty unsubstantiated comments and spreading lies, like the thugs who composed the mobs at the August town hall meetings --or like Congressman Joe Wilson of S. Carolina and his defenders like Congressman John Boehner and Senator Lindsey Graham--only detracts from the atmosphere necessary to resolve our problems. Such people are not only dissenters, they are truly unamerican! They are leading this country into a dangerously comic imitation of a banana republic.

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Unbelievable Coincidence Strikes AGAIN :.?
Posted by: stellabloo on Sep 23, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it me or does the timing of this latest FBI terrorist sting stink higher than a dead skunk on a hot day?

Source: Feds seek about a dozen people in terror investigation

Considering they haven’t had an arrest like this in years and just when the the high cost of the Global War on Everything is starting to overshadow the high cost of public health care and the high cost of bailing out Wall Street?

Coincidentally I was just reading about Dr. Edward Barclays yesterday, nephew of Sigmund Freud and inventor of the modern PR campaign. He was hired by Woodrow Wilson to bring the US into WWI. Joseph Goebbels was an admirer and certainly an apt pupil, but the reality is that Barclays went on to work for the American administration right up until the Kennedy years. His specialty was mass mind control. I KID YOU NOT :.(

CNN Exposed

… which is really just a no-brainer article saying that the interests of every form of media that requires funding are dictated by the interests providing the necessary funding?

But then there’s this:

Top 20 Republican Party donors with UK or USA consumer brands

Hmmm, GE (airplane engines, radios etc) , Exxon-Mobil (oil) , and Time-Warner, corporate owner of CNN.

Not to mention this:

Lobbying: Top Spenders

Oh my - GE, Exxon-Mobil, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing …. You don’t have to be a political scientist to see that things are starting to look very bad for the rest of us :.(

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Ve're a civilian dominated policy society, except when we forget that, and vote for demopublicans.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 23, 2009 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whilst I don't subscribe to CNN/YourPoliticalViews, I respect them

Shame we don't get something out of our 'radical change' besides the status quo.

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Midgets and incompetents
Posted by: badkitty on Sep 23, 2009 12:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love it--at last, a concise description of the caliber of our military leadership today. I hope Obama stalls, and then says "Gee, I've studied this carefully, there's no way we can win this, so we're out by December 2010 at the latest." Then he can cut the military budget and some generals can retire.

It's a big day for Berkeley, two articles on Alternet's homepage by people from Berkeley (even if Guy may have moved to Oakland after he won that big lawsuit).

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president precedents
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 23, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we'll never know for certain, but the mythology has it that JFK was finally taking Ike's advice about the military-industrial complex and was seeing the light in general. there's even some evidence that marilyn monroe got him to try LSD, which sure shows a lot of people the light. we see where this got that president.

in 1976, carter was running for the presidency. half his poer came from the fact that he'd had nothing to do with the vietnam war, watergate or the like. he was promising to cease arms sales to the shah of iran. he was also promising to decriminalize marijuana and seek alternatives to the drugwar in general. as a result, his campaign coffers were greatly enlarged by the fact that rock bands such as the grateful dead, allman brothers, fleetwood mac and others were giving benefit concerts for carter's campaign.

when carter was inaugurated, as is the gray tradition, the first thing he did was get aboard an air force one jet with the joint chiefs of staff and intelligence figures. when he got off that plane, it was like the manchurian candidate or invasion of the body-snatchers... carter then made the largest arms sale ever to the tyrant shah and made no move ever about pot or the drugwar. indeed, CIA and DEA poisoned tons of pot farms in mexico with paraquat then refrained from telling americans about this vicious crime until long after much of that pot had been smoked - essentially an attack on the wellbeing of millions of americans made as if on an enemy people and in complete secrecy. carter said nothing and did nothing about it. and carter was still one of the best of men in that office in the past century...

obama has become obamabush as i expected, but to a degree that has shocked even a skeptic like me. on the 2nd day after his inauguration, with the words "we don't stand for torture" still on his lips from 60 Minutes days before; he mandated continuing the CIA rendition program of outsourced torture. he did this again recently in the midst of further torture revelations he helps obscure and go unprosecuted. while claiming to be ending the illegal iraq war; he plans to maintain an occupational force of 50,000 troops and 100,000 contractor thug-mercenaries there indefinitely. he;s expanded the afpak war and followed right in the footsteps of corporate-communist bush with trillions in giveaways to the very crooks who schemed this global economic disaster.

from june of 1968 on, 60% of americans ro mroe wanted out of vietnam. but in a demockery, what the people want means nothing and that war didn't end until 1974, 6 years and 1.3 million viet deaths later, (plus 30,000 americansoldiers deaths.) right now 60% of americans want out of the afpak war. my guess is that the will of the people will again be spat on and obama will pursue these war crimes as directed by the military, intelligence and the corporatist war-profiteers of wall street.

2 years ago, obama was cornered on fox nes by bill oreilley about the fact that obama's family minister and longtime friend was on record as saying that america was founded and always based upon racist genocide. obama turned on his old friend and said, "no good american believes those things he says." well, considering that there were once some 20 million 'indians' in 1500 living on the land now called america and that this was just 1 million left alive by 1900... and considering that some 8 million africans were killed in the hundreds of years of the slave trade in the process of bringing some 10 million blacks here to build a country they had virtually no stake in. that history is undeniable to all but liars and the utterly ignorant. what obama did was act as a holocaust denier, even ignoring what was done to his own race - not a man to trust.

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president precedentspart 2
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 23, 2009 12:59 PM   
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prior to the fox news holocaust denial incident dismissing the native and african genocides... another treacherous turncoat event was this... obama had been an outspoken supporter of palestinian rights in the face of israel's oppression, militarism and police state. that is, he WAS pro-palestinian until the moment when AIPAC put funds into his senate campaign and he walked into the senate one of themany in the AIPAC club.

it should be noted that while nader, for example, had been fighting the fascists/corporatists/warmongers (same thing), since 1960 with integrity and determination (and couldn't even get into the debates...); obama had a lacklustre 4 years in the senate before running for the presidency. he didn't fight bush in any way on the wars, torture, bailouts or anything else. obama did not sponsor or present any significant bill to the congress, zip. the simple fact is that he has yet to accomplish anything of magnitude except get himself elected with half-black skin.

in other words, the idea that the military needs to blackmail obama is wrongheaded. he has already shown himself to be one of their 'team players.' he will no more fight the military-intelligence community than he has stood up for single-payer or fought the healthcare-pharma-insurance cabal.

i hope i'm mistaken, but i tend to think that obama will also be drawn into a south american conflict to reimpose yankee and multinational powers as the rule there. with venezuela, bolivia, ecuador and paraguay refusing US army bases and posing a near-united anti-imperialist front that includes chile, argentina uruguay and perhaps soon, peru... other than uribe's colombia, the only holdout is brazil, the elephant in the closet. note the continuing backing of uribe and the new US army bases to be located there. typically disgraceful, the US has solidly backed uribe, a known death squad despot who has given the school of the americas plenty of trainees for courses in torture, terror and mayhem.

looking on the bright side, afghanistan has for 2500 years been known as the graveyard of empires. what brought the soviet union crashing down was its overextension there. if the US adds a war against latin american bolivarianism (easily justified by the imperialist monroe doctrine); this evil empire might go the way of that other evil empire, the USSR. then perhaps we can gain global grassroots traction to shut down the other evil empires in our midst, like china, russia, israel, iran, saudi arabia, etc.

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Lets Face It Americans Can't Celebrate Anything Except Being The Top A"R"S"E"HOLES on The Planet
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 1:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ASSHoles In American

We might like you if we hadn't told you to fuck off - because you were all complete and utter religious maniacs and never got over it and responded by bombing the planet to fuck and are still doing it...

We sent the Criminals to Australia and they turned out Lovely

But You Religious Cunts - Cant You Just Either Get Rid Of All Your Weapons and Explosives or Just Blow The Entire Fucking Place Up. Leave The Rest Of The World Out Of It - You Have Already Killed 99% of Native American Indians

Meanwhile we Love

250 years of Guinness with Arthur's Day

The Celebrations of which start in 2 hours 40 minutes Irish Time

Now Fuck Off and Have a Pint Of Guinness Instead

Tony

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BOB WOODWARD TO THE RESCUE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 23, 2009 2:27 PM   
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I think the General has some explaining to do. I used to trust the military unconditionally. No more. When they were appearing on news programs talking about how well things were going, and getting paid big bucks to push the Iraq war it made me sick. They stopped it, but what a disgrace they are. What happened to their loyalty. Woodward, I trust.
ANNA

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» RE: BOB WOODWARD TO THE RESCUE Posted by: badkitty

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Look - I Do Know About The Detail Of How The CIA Finance Their Black Operations..
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My Wife Is Such An ANGEL

But She Would Attack The Thief Remorselessly Until He Gave Us Our Money Back

We could both have been naked on the beach

Do you know how difficult it is to even get back to your tent - that might also have been stolen when you are just both naked on the beach after swimming naked in the warm sea - and some cunt has stolen all your clothes and money and home?

As it was he just took all our money

Since arriving at University on Sunday, She has sent us a total of two texts in total the Word Count is 9 words.

That is all we have got back...

Except from her friend Dorothy who lives across the road and is not starting University until next week...

Katy has told Dorothy everything...

We let our Children Fly Free

She will be back briefly on Friday passing through to go to Rockcorps and meet all her friends there.

She looked beautiful dancing on TV - but the band looked completely ridiculous in a boxing ring.

Rockcorps

I think it is a brilliant idea cleaning up rubbish and planting flowers and gardens for 4 hours if you are a kid and care about your community

For Free

Except You Get To a Totally Brilliant Gig - as well as being on National TV

I think she said Razorlight are playing

I said - scream for them to do the best ever song that lasts about 1 minute 36 seconds from memory

Rip It Up

Tony

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Raise a Glass To Arthur Guinness - 250 Years of Farting Water Converted To Be Safe To Drink
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 2:49 PM   
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Americans are just people who drop bombs all over the world hoping they can control it without ever actually having met any of the People of the World except behind The Barrell of a Gun or a Computer Game in Las Vegas where they can bomb people remotely 9-5 in the Office and then go home to their wives bragging how many terrorists they have killed from their desk in the office

The People who run the EU are just a bunch of Communists who think they are going to take Control of The World through the the total and complete and utter bollocks of CO2 causing Global Warming

And they are planning to switch off all the power

Whilst people like you and me supply it - and tell them you are completely insane and you people "in power" are an embarassment - and have already been replaced

And we have decided to keep the power on

Tony

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I Wrote a Couple Of Articles This Morning About Nuclear Power and Religion
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 3:14 PM   
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I just wrote them on The Fly Direct on Craig Murrays website...

I didn't save them locally on my PC...

But I told the truth - and was completely sober when I wrote them

But his website is down yet again

But Craig Murray's Courage Is Still Alive And Well

Even If We Completely Disagree with him -and he deletes what we say

We would never delete Craig Murray - because he is the Real Thing

Not The Fictional James Bond

But Craig Murray The Real British Ambassador

Who Tells Americans and Every Fucking Cunt

You Can't Do That

You Cannot Boil People Alive To Try and Get Information From Them

That is TORTURE

And The US and UK Government and All Subcontracted Agencies and Countries Are WAR CRIMINALS

And We Are Going To Get You Cunts on Trial For War Crimes Against Humanity

Tony

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I Didn't Say No You Can't Do That - Just Prove That It Works
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 4:07 PM   
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And I Proved Conclusively - By Very Serious Testing That The Solution Provided By The Americans Simply Didn't Work - Under The Most Extreme Forms of Possible Attack

So I still used The DEC Hardware and OS because it was the Best in the World After IBM had wasted ICL - and used the skills I had learnt at ICL in West Gorton Manchester to Build The Most Reliable Major Computer System In The World For The Specific Application I was being paid to provide.

I was being paid realtive peanuts - but the money didn't matter - the working application - supported by 24x7 by automatic detection of every possible problem I could think of by various remote means - and I always had my pager and mobile switched on - and could respond even when on holiday - because I personally cared so much about 12 Million people and a service that would automatically switch to whatever was surviving and take on the entire load...

Get the gist - sure the above needs rewriting

But what the fuck

I am retired now

I tried my best

Tony

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It almost makes me think that the U.S. military was never intended to have efficacy...
Posted by: zigy on Sep 23, 2009 4:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
rather (perhaps) its real purpose, persuent to the military-industrial complex model is simply to make a lot of money (for the m.i. establishment at least)while making a mess of everything. Blow it up then build it up then blow it up again. Make money coming and going.... I believe it was the late General Smedley Butler who famously said, "war is a racket...."

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kitty, kitty, pus, pus, - come and drink your global warming CO2 milk
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 4:45 PM   
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So Exactly How Do You Get Such a Stupid People To Disarm Their Nuclear Weapons?

Its like dealing with a group of 3 year olds armed with live machine guns complete with bullets who are in the play centre in the shopping mall and have been playing war games on their older brother's playstation

How do you coax them away?

Tell them kitty kitty pus pus - come and drink your global warming CO2 milk?

Tony

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And The Rest Of The World Is Not Afraid Of The WANKERS
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 5:32 PM   
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We can have any system of money we choose...

I am currently cooking tomatoes from my garden and garlic from a Greek Girls Garden - and other stuff from ther peoples gardens...

Sure we traded Euros and Pounds and Friendship - because despite the language differences people in Europe do get on

Americans or Dollars were never even thought of

Have you gone bust yet?

Tony

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if he doesn't "give in"
Posted by: scearfo on Sep 23, 2009 5:37 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to the brass, don't be surprised if he is assassinated by yet another "misfit loner" looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

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Americans Now Realise They Personally Have To Rebuild All The Cities They Have Destroyed Themselves
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 5:55 PM   
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With their own hands and materials mined in America and transported to the Countries they have destroyed in order to achieve forgiveness

Whilst paying Restitution and saying Sorry in an enormous way for something that really is unforgivable

Do you Realise what you have done?

Tony

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And In The Greek Islands They Get Lots Of Israeli War Veterans Traumatised By The Palestinian Kids
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 6:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have personally killed.

The Israeli Vets have a great deal of difficulty relating to the most simple questions and it is almost impossible to have a normal conversation with them...

What struck me particularly was how white their skin was compared to mine - but I guess that is because nearly all of them come from a much colder climate that Northern Lancashire

They have absolutely fuck all to do with Palestine - except some twat in Southern Russia/North Eastern Greece decided about 1300 years ago to adopt the Jewish Religion...

I mean how completely fucking stupid can you get?

Why not just fuck off back home - just like the Yanks - and leave the Semite People to get on with their lives without you racist Russians fucking them up.

I mean for Fucks Sake - isreal is The Shit Hole of The World - Northeren Greece and Russia is far nicer - it even rains there and you can grow food.

I do realise that it is us British who have totally fucked you and the Palestinians over...

But the Palestinians were always really nice - whilst you Khazzar cunts have fucked off everyone wherever you have been.

Its not surprising that there are so few of you

No one actually wants to make babies with you

Tony

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Which Bit Didn't You Understand?
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 23, 2009 6:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am English and Come from Oldham through Largely Celtic Decent

I Couldn't Give a Fuck What The Colour of Your Skin Is - Nor What Stupid Nonesne You Believe in...

But If You Are Going To Kill, Torture and Mutilate People based on the basis that they don't believe your stupid fucking religion or you don't like the colour of their skin

Then I am going to be a complete CUNT to You By Telling You Directly To Your Face If You Like What I think of You

If You Want To Kill Me - then Go ahead

I Have No Fear of You

Tony

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Ohhh, generals....
Posted by: kedikat on Sep 24, 2009 12:54 AM   
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As I skimmed the page I thought it said those other things that always seem to be blackmailing us men.....

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I would never trade my amazing friends, my wonderful life, and my loving family for less gray hair o
Posted by: flymulla on Sep 25, 2009 5:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would never trade my amazing friends, my wonderful life, and my loving family for less gray hair or a flatter belly. As I have aged, I have become kinder to myself, and less critical of myself. I have become my own friend. I don't chide myself for eating that extra cookie, or for not making my bed, or for buying that silly cement gecko that I didn't need, but looks so Avanti grade on my patio. I am entitled to a treat, to be messy, to be extravagant.
I have seen too many dear friends leave this world too soon; before they understood the great freedom that comes with aging.
Whose business is it if I choose to read or play on the computer until 4 AM and sleep until noon? I will dance with myself to those wonderful tunes of the 60 &70's, and if I, at the same time, wish to weep over a lost love ... I will.
I will walk the beach in a swimsuit that is stretched over a bulging body, and will dive into the waves with abandon if I choose to, despite the pitying glances from the jet set.
They, too, will get old, if they are lucky.
I know I am sometimes forgetful.
However, there again, some of life is just as well forgotten. Moreover, I eventually remember the important things.
Sure, over the years my heart has been broken. How can your heart not break when you lose a loved one, or when a child suffers, or even when a car hits somebody’s beloved pet? But broken hearts are what give us strength and understanding and
compassion. A heart never broken is pristine and sterile and will never know the joy of being imperfect.
I am so blessed to have lived long enough to have my hair turning gray, and to have my youthful laughs be forever etched into deep grooves on my face.
So many have never laughed, and so many have died before their hair could turn silver.
As you get older, it is easier to be positive. You care less about what other people think. I don’t question myself anymore.
I have even earned the right to be wrong.
So, to answer your question, I like being old. It has set me free. I like the person I have become. I am not going to live forever, but while I am still here, I will not waste time lamenting what could have been, or worrying about what will be. And I shall eat dessert every single day (if I feel like it).
MAY OUR FRIENDSHIP NEVER COME APART ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE HEART!
MAY YOU ALWAYS HAVE A RAINBOW OF SMILES ON YOUR FACE AND IN YOUR HEART FOREVER AND EVER! FRIENDS FOREVER!
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla

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Obama
Posted by: cbstogner on Sep 27, 2009 1:38 PM   
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I believe Obama is doing a great job and being strong for America. mortgage calulator mortgage rates bad credit loans investools

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HEADLINE HEADACHES 4 DEMS
Posted by: reelman on Sep 28, 2009 10:17 AM   
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HEADLINE HEADACHES FOR DEMOCRATS

Iran conducts third round of missile tests…
‘Could reach Israel’…
Revolutionary Guards begin war games…
Venezuela exploring uranium deposits with Russia…
China to display upgraded missiles in parade…
India raises nuclear stakes; Can make high-yield weapons…

Modern history since Jimmah “Misery Index” Carter was elected tells us loud and clear that the democrat party has two easily seen fatal flaws…one is the economy…if you don’t know that you are in denial but the other is actually as dangerous…its foreign policy.
(But then who ever pays attention to historical facts or patterns?)

The democrat nominees always pontificate about their policy to “word charm and frown down” thug dictators and islamic hate states.
Its no coincidence so many global thugs have words of support for democrat nominees. Look them up for yourself. Upon election the global thugs have a huge party and start pushing America around. They know history. They know the demo-socialists would rather cut our military spending in half and buy votes expanding socialism with it. The pattern never changes.

Here we go again, its J. Carter Obama, master pacifist pansy, fiddling and apologizing weekly as the threats multiply.
Meanwhile, back in reality-land, the global kooks are ramping up the dangers. No problem, Obama and Hillary will huff and puff the threats away. Such is the approach of the modern liberal. They always trust the untrustworthy. Reality is never an option.

The average voter has a persistent queasy feeling about the economy but will have a foreign policy migraine by spring.
The democrat party sees no evil but us and believes all they do not see. Do they read the same September headlines?

How does the demo-socialist party react?
Tea parties are domestic nazis or terrorists or mobs, the vast right wing conspiracy baloney reappears as does those “do nothing demon” Republicans. OBL is still a free man and islamic Americans are pushing states and boards around while building islamic schools. You go figure.

How much blame-shifting, pandering, postponing and liberal rainbow dust before the day of our horror?
Nuclear poker is not for the spineless. Perhaps Israel will save themselves and postpone that day for America…perhaps.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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Okay, once again...
Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 5, 2009 11:31 PM   
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Has anyone noticed that right next to Afghanistan is another country that is eye-deep in Taliban and other groups trying to take it over? Or that that country has perhaps a score or more of nuke weapons, that would go to the winner?

It's no mystery to me, why Obama is taking the strategic view, as he should in this case. What's mysterious is why everyone seems to be piling on him about it.

Ask yourself: do you WANT the Taliban to come out of it in ownership of a dozen nukes? Or Al-Qaida? If you don't, then support our President in aiding the Pakistani government to beat the Taliban.

Don't be confused that Afghanistan is not Pakistan -- they'll sink or swim together. And don't be confused that Afghanistan is "like" Vietnam -- it's not. There is no deep-pockets enemy supporting them behind the scenes, no impenetrable jungle to hide them from our infra-red detecting birds or missiles. Their best hope is that we will lose the will to finish what should be finished.

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why not
Posted by: rrrbert on Oct 20, 2009 7:39 PM   
Current rat