COMMENTS: 149
Inside Pat Tillman's Life, and the Bush Administration's Cover-Up of His Death
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Journalist Jon Krakauer is obsessed with people who make unfathomable choices, from a young man wandering in the wilderness in Into the Wild to climbers attempting Everest in Into Thin Air to polygamists hearing a call to violence in Under the Banner of Heaven. The subject of Krakauer's new book Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tillman is one of these. As we all know, Pat Tillman left the NFL in 2002 to enlist in the army, inspired to do his part in the service of a president he distrusted and later, a war he doubted. When Tillman was killed by friendly fire, the army and government engaged in a cover-up to turn him into a martyred hero. In this book, Krakauer exposes each step of the deception with persistent detail.
If Where Men Win Glory is less immediately gripping, less fluid and tense, than Krakauer's previous books, this is partly because the story he's telling is known, and painful. But the theme of our government's failure colliding with a young man's sense of duty has a relevance and moral immediacy that's hard to shake off.
Ultimately, Where Men Win Glory leaves you, as does Into the Wild, with a sense of futility and anger over the death of a young man that you knew was coming all along. While Krakauer levels his most scathing insults at the Bush administration and portrays the army chain of command as a bureaucratic, cover-your-ass nightmare, in this book the fog of war is the real culprit. As Krakauer told the Wall Street Journal, "There is nothing glamorous or romantic about war. It's mostly about random pointless death and misery. And that's what [Tillman's] death tells us. It reminds me that the good aren't rewarded, there's no such thing as karma." War, Krakauer writes, creates a climate that leads panicked men to gun down their brothers in cold blood at a staggeringly high rate in all recorded conflicts, and a climate that obscures mistakes and misdeeds (as is the case not just with friendly fire, but with crimes like sexual assault and the death of LaVena Johnson. It's a climate that leads commanders to make decisions from behind desks (as happened on the day Tillman died) that those on the ground deem unsafe but are powerless to disobey.
Krakauer begins with an account of that day. It begins with Tillman's lieutenant, David Uthlaut, begging his superiors not to split up his unit or have them travel in the daytime--both huge risks--but being denied both requests in order to conform to a pre-ordained timetable. Timetables, Krakauer notes disdainfully, were a particular obsession of Donald Rumsfields', enabling him to check off boxes on his war on terror.
After the first chapter, Where Men Win Glory backtracks, alternating the story of Tillman's early life and NFL career with the history of Afghanistan and the conflicts it has endured, creating a sense of dread as readers know what will happen when the two threads converge. Tillman's personality, enigmatic though it was, becomes clearer here: a young man who struggled to channel his existential angst and occasional aggression into constant self-improvement, who was never content being comfortable and continually pushed himself, running marathons and triathlons in the football off-season, taking death-defying cliff-dives, reading and discussing philosophy over drinks, and writing diary entries after bad football games exhorting himself to do better. Consumed with notions of honor, risk and service, this larger-than-life man was also a family rock and a devoted husband to his young wife Marie, the bright-burning center of an extremely close-knit group of friends and relatives. Even the picture of Tillman on the book's back jacket--long haired, intense with a slightly mischievous look in his eyes--is worth a look, so different is it from the military portrait of Tillman used by the press.
At the same time as he illuminates this character, Krakauer sets the political stage for Tillman's death and its cover-up, describing the brutal Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, the role of the CIA and the mujahideen, the forming and re-forming alliances that led to the Taliban giving Osama Bin Laden safe haven. On our side, he mentions the disastrous Florida recount, getting in a jab at Scalia and Bush v. Gore, urgent memos about Bin Laden ignored by the Bush administration, and the "selling" and spinning of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Many readers will be aware of this history, but juxtaposing it with a life that will be ended by its trajectory creates a fresh sense of urgency and disbelief.
Perhaps the most incredible aspect of the book is its extensive excerpting from Tillman's diaries, granted to Krakauer by his widow Marie, and stories about his time deployed overseas, where he read The Odyssey and "Self-Reliance," and was shocked by the youth and immaturity of his co-enlistees. Tillman expresses his doubt about the Iraq War from its onset: "It may be very soon that Nub [his brother Kevin] & I will be called upon to take part in something I see no clear purpose for... I believe we have little or no justification other than our imperial whim," he wrote. On another occasion, he calls Bush a "cowboy."
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Posted by: edieb on Sep 17, 2009 1:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, we will continue to hope for the truth behind Tillman's murder; and so much more. I'm not holding my breath. Obama is under the gun, quite literally, his Adm. can go only so far as allowed by the cowards that be.
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» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: SteveA
» Made-For-TV Movies on Fux
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: sam3
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» Cheney is not a moron. He achieved many of his goals, including our illegal wars in Afghanistan
Posted by: JohnTruth2001
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: billslm
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Posted by: Ray Duray on Sep 17, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it is possible that this is simply extraordinary bad luck, one also has to wonder if the report that snipers with highly sophisticated gun sights were involved might indicate something more sinister. Like the deliberate assassination of Pat Tillman.
If Krakauer is whitewashing this aspect of the case, it would be rather damaging to Krakauer's reputation as a sterling truthteller and put him sadly into the category of deliberate disinformation agent.
I reserve judgement until I can resolve this Associated Press reporting:
http://tinyurl.com/39pdlv
Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Those inclined to worry about how authorities may be rewriting history in the way described in George Orwell's ""1984" there is a curious evolution of information available at Wikipedia on this controversy.
Here's an archived version from April 5, 2009 (not verified):
http://www.assassinationscience.com/Pat_Tillman.pdf
Compare that with the Wikipedia version available on September 17, 2009:
http://bit.ly/1ehmwq
If the eradication of the information available in April is deliberate, we are witness to a coverup.
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» RE: Agreed
Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: sam3
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Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 17, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What this basically means is more Pat Tillmans killed for no reason -- and hundreds of billions of more dollars down the drain.
If war is a terrible and horrendous waste, why is Afghanistan a "war of necessity"?
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» RE: No win, no withdrawal?
Posted by: Vik
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 17, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, the truth has been revealed. Once again, the Bush White House is exposed for the corrupt and incompetent fools that they are (Excuse me. I meant to say, "the Corrupt and incompetent fools they were"). Once again, they have a lot of explaining to do - a whole helluva lot! Did these assholes not learn a thing from the Jessica Lynch affair? Of course they didn't. The fact of the matter is, these people are incapable of learning anything.
Did they really believe they could keep the "Pat-as-action-hero-figure" story going forever? Do they actually believe they'll be able to white wash posterity? Are they that delusional that they think they'll be able to re-write history in order to revision themselves as people who had a clue as to what the hell they were doing? What are they thinking? What's the matter with them?
Still MORE Right Wing Lunacy
Tom Degan, Goshen, NY
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» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Good one, AM VET!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: sam3
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Posted by: peacelf on Sep 17, 2009 6:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a big fan of Krakauer. His books are enlightening and entertaining. However, I think he misunderstands one issue pertaining to Tillman's death based on what I read in this article.
It's a common mistake that Americans believe just because a country has borders and a "legitimate" government, that the people of that country are united together in harmonious patriotism toward their country and its leader. Krakauer seems to fall for that myth.
Pakistan's mountainous NW tribal region is beyond the politics of Islamabad. As Pakistani leaders have shown time and again, the best solution to prevent civil war is to leave the tribals alone.
Afghanistan is even worse. Karzai's power is more like a mayor of Kabul. His limited (stolen?) power is only legitimatized by american imperial support, but, honestly, he has little control over anything outside Kabul.
That's why the so-called mastermind of 9/11, bin Laden, can live with impunity between the two countries.
Krakauer doesn't seem to understand that years of nefarious imperial influence has created the "monsters" of the Middle East. It was the British who drew the borders around those countries, confining many historical enemies together, then they installed dictators and potentates to rule with an iron fist over the diverse peoples.
Bush foolishly thought he could impose democracy on the Middle East countries and magically bring them together.
Wherever imperialism lays its ugly hand, trouble is sure to follow, and Pat Tillman's tragic and unfortunate death is the by-product. Did Tillman understand that before he signed up?
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» Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001
Posted by: LeftWright
» Other then Spamming for Griffin
Posted by: EncinoM
» get on your unhappy hayride
Posted by: weathered
» Other then your masked Anti-Semtic comments
Posted by: EncinoM
» Other then Spamming for 9/11 Coincidence Theories
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Other then Spamming for 9/11 Coincidence Theories
Posted by: EncinoM
» Why Do Americans So Easily Believe Fairy Tales?
Posted by: Ray Duray
» RE: Why Do Americans So Easily Believe Fairy Tales?
Posted by: EncinoM
» You sure of the validity of OBL video and audio tapes?
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: You sure of the validity of OBL video and audio tapes?
Posted by: EncinoM
» Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: EncinoM
» Think outside the box and explore the 9/11 hypotheticals
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Think outside the box and explore the 9/11 hypotheticals
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Think outside the box and explore the 9/11 hypotheticals
Posted by: MaxBridges
» Right, Max. And I know where you get your BS, so quit yanking our collective crank.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Honesty about Fact-Checking
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Honesty about Fact-Checking
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001
Posted by: weathered
» brunowe - Your point is a valid one, however, family members traveled to Pakistan for a funeral,
Posted by: LeftWright
» Exploiting Pat Tillman's death in order to promote David Ray Grifter's 911 denier propaganda again?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: xploiting Pat Tillman's death in order to promote David Ray Grifter's 911 denier propaganda agai
Posted by: desmodroid
» RE: xploiting Pat Tillman's death in order to promote David Ray Grifter's 911 denier propaganda agai
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Habeas Corpus
Posted by: peacelf
» OBL is a key figure in the fraudulent war on terror,the main boogieman in the 9/11 false flag event
Posted by: LeftWright
» To anyone truly interested in learning about the events of 9/11/01, here are some places to start:
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 17, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bushies first and foremost committed High Treason to commit this atrocity, but it will take the prosecution for the War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity which resulted to finally bring them to Justice under both interantional an domestic Law.
We must demand the UN indict all those involved be prosectued in the international court so that we may have a mandate to investigate exactly how they were able to committ such crimes. Those who aided the Bushies will not be able to claim investigation are 'Partisan Witch hunts'. In fact I have no doubt a number of in both Houses, in both Parties and on SCOTUS will be also under investigation for complicty- So Be It!
Afghanistan was nothing more than the Foot in the Middle Eastern Door in a Blood for Oil profits venture. So then the question comes about the truth of 9/11. To unravel this web these investigation must return to Iran Contra,thecovert operations and assistance to the Afghani "Freedom Fighters" and Saddam during the '80's.All of Which Dick and Rummy's foot steps in Gov't provide the trail, and should lead straight to a Trial!
I am not typically a supporter of Capital punishment, but sometimes for crimes of such magnitude, no other form of punishment is adequate or acceptable.
Cheney has not only shown no remorse, but has continued to expound the 'virtues' of his deadly and inhuman agenda. Frankly I would like to see him hung with the same noose tied for Saddam, then zapped back to life so we can hang him again- for every year he has betrayed this country and committed heinous crimes around the world.
Cheney and Rummy's crimes are not limited to the last 8 yrs- they are a life long pursuit of greed and meglomania.
They scarificed the innocent on the Alter of self interest- no different than any other vile Emperors of the past.
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» Deterrent Force
Posted by: Ray Duray
» RE: The sacrifical slaughter of the 'Sacred'
Posted by: Tenzin
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Posted by: SteveA on Sep 17, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I just love articles like this
Posted by: Crazy H
» I agree, 100% %^)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I agree, 100% %^)
Posted by: Crazy H
» I know what a straw man is, Crazy H
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I just love articles like this
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: SteveA: Steamin' pile is cattle excrement.
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: Get-yar-BUll and his same tired Bull Shit.
Posted by: sasquuatch55
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 17, 2009 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those that chose these wars of aggression never had a plan, a strategy, or an exit; nor was there ever any thought out plan on what would happen not just to the people of Afghanistan, but the instability of the region in general! Even as they diverted into Iraq, this was about oil and who will control it! This was about the money to be made for Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater, etc., and all of the others "contracted" to "provide services" over there! That Pat Tillman along with hundreds of thousands more on both sides have lost their lives was incidental and given short shrift from those that were more concerned with the money and power that they would receive! Even now as our soldiers are returning wounded body and soul, they are still being treated abominably by our government, due to "so called budget cuts" are still turning away our returning (children) veterans without many of the services they have earned!
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» The reason why
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The reason why
Posted by: Crazy H
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Posted by: camusrebel on Sep 17, 2009 8:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My apologys to his family, my heart truly goes out to them. His Mom and brother were very strong and brave to testify at hearings covered by CSPAN, such deep grief and anger and sense of betrayal.
His notebooks were burned. Hmmmm.....wonder why. He was getting VERY disillusioned...considering coming back and telling how fucked up the whole raping and pillaging thing was going, even considering politics.
Can you imagine!! We would be outta there in a year's time. Can't have that...wunt be prudent.
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» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Crazy H
» Let's consult George Orwell, shall we?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Let's consult George Orwell, shall we?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Let's consult George Orwell, shall we?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE:Sounds like murder to me.
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Lemuel G.
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Lemuel G.
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: Ray Duray
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: desmodroid
» RE: cmon Encino, Don't let him know the matrix was a movie
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin on Sep 17, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: its all lies
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: its all lies
Posted by: sam3
» Hey, SteveA...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: its all lies
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: its all lies
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Is SteveA really Guitar BUll?
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» No I'm GuitarBill. SteveA is SteveA.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» GuitarBill =/= SteveA: where GuitarBill's alias-equating ends
Posted by: MaxBridges
» You want an example of how dishonest "truthers" are, Max? Have a look at this:
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Don't enter the military
Posted by: sam3
» RE: Don't enter the military
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: But whose gonna fight the right wing religious wars?
Posted by: sasquuatch55
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Posted by: SteveA on Sep 17, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, write Obama! (Just speak like you're adults. Get the librarian or somebody to help you.) Here's your chance to change history. No joke.
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Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 17, 2009 9:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, Americans keep voting in the people who support wars and coverups...Republicans and Democrats...Yeah, Tillman was murdered...he was thinking of going public against the war...the poster boy for recruiters was going off the reservation...motive is right there... the official story does not match up with the evidence...just like with 9-11.
9-11 was an inside job! It was the psyop to create the kind of tunnel vision that was required to move the nation unquestioningly to war. Can you imagine an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq without 9-11? These people are murderers and will stop at nothing. But what have Americans done? Like dogs returning to their vomit, they elect and re-elect these criminals who refuse to act for the nation and only serve the Oligarchy.
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» Again where is the
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: Prinzowhales
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: Haji54
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 17, 2009 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We'd used them before...allowing them through our UN arms embargo enforcement patrols to be the shock troops against the Serbs in Bosnia.
Al Qaeda's news agency's watermark was even found to have been placed on one of the OBL flicks released by the NSA front--INTEL CENTER--at the same time as their own watermark was placed.
Even the Taliban warned the US that something was up--along with around a dozen foreign intelligence agencies. You can't run a secret agency with that kind of penetration and you certainly can't launch a surprise attack when the punch has been telegraphed. The former President of Italy...former British cabinet members and a former German Defense Minister have come out and told the truth about the Regime's running of false-flag terror ops in OPERATION GLADIO and that 9-11 was esentially an inside job.
Just a few months prior to 9-11, the Taliban received $43 million from the State Department for their efforts in irradicating opium production. At the Berlin conference between the oil companies and Taliban, the latter were told that they could get a 'shower of gold or a shower of bombs' depending on whether they played ball with UNOCAL and friends.
Mad Dog Albright refused the Sudanese offer to serve OBL up to the Saudis, yet another proof that he was our man.
Americans like Pat Tilman died for nothing American. He died for the Oligarchy and their evil wars for resources, drugs and geopolitical pipe dreams.
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» excellent, could you contact me?
Posted by: tazdelaney
» You can find most of this information at 911blogger.com (and a whole lot more)
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 17, 2009 10:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Tillman was deceived, just as America was deceived...
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Sep 17, 2009 11:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Ray Duray on Sep 17, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5
"Hmm, I'm now very curious about how Jon Krakauer has dealt with the autopsy report on Pat Tillman. It has been reported that Cpl. Tillman suffered three rounds to his head."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/27/pat.tillman/index.html
"While it is possible that this is simply extraordinary bad luck, one also has to wonder if the report that snipers with highly sophisticated gun sights were involved might indicate something more sinister. Like the deliberate assassination of Pat Tillman."
"If Krakauer is whitewashing this aspect of the case, it would be rather damaging to Krakauer's reputation as a sterling truthteller and put him sadly into the category of deliberate disinformation agent."
Ummm... read the "The Climb" by Anatoli Boukreev, the guide that Krakauer picked as his villain for his "Into Thin Air" book - that should dispel any notions you have about Krakauer's journalistic integrity.
He's more into the sensationalist stuff. I wonder if he had the full cooperation of the Pentagon?
Three bullets in the forehead doesn't look like friendly fire, but rather assassination.
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» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Here's some further info on the matter...
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Here's some further info on the matter...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Here's some further info on the matter...
Posted by: camusrebel
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Posted by: rgoalierob on Sep 17, 2009 12:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tillman Was Fragged
Posted by: alive
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Posted by: letrightbedone on Sep 17, 2009 7:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: reipoking on Sep 17, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: alive on Sep 20, 2009 2:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what there was a cover up, Pat tillman couldn't obey orders and when his unit made contact with enemy forces he rushed out like a psycho charging the enemy like a complete frickin' moron, then when he realized that he was all alone and headed back to where the rest of his unit had taken cover like they were supposed to, like they teach you to do when coming under enemy fire, but no he had to be the cowboy and go it alone, then..."crossfire?", and he was killed!
At least in this case they made Tillman look a lot better than he really was, and I for one am glad I never served with him, although I have spoken to one soldier who did, and he hated him and was glad he got what was coming to him!
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» RE: Atheism and unpopular ideals...really?
Posted by: 77blazer
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Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 11, 2009 1:34 PM
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Posted by: edieb on Sep 17, 2009 1:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, we will continue to hope for the truth behind Tillman's murder; and so much more. I'm not holding my breath. Obama is under the gun, quite literally, his Adm. can go only so far as allowed by the cowards that be.
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» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: SteveA
» Made-For-TV Movies on Fux
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: sam3
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» Cheney is not a moron. He achieved many of his goals, including our illegal wars in Afghanistan
Posted by: JohnTruth2001
» RE: The assassination of Cpl. Pat...........
Posted by: billslm
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Posted by: Ray Duray on Sep 17, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it is possible that this is simply extraordinary bad luck, one also has to wonder if the report that snipers with highly sophisticated gun sights were involved might indicate something more sinister. Like the deliberate assassination of Pat Tillman.
If Krakauer is whitewashing this aspect of the case, it would be rather damaging to Krakauer's reputation as a sterling truthteller and put him sadly into the category of deliberate disinformation agent.
I reserve judgement until I can resolve this Associated Press reporting:
http://tinyurl.com/39pdlv
Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Those inclined to worry about how authorities may be rewriting history in the way described in George Orwell's ""1984" there is a curious evolution of information available at Wikipedia on this controversy.
Here's an archived version from April 5, 2009 (not verified):
http://www.assassinationscience.com/Pat_Tillman.pdf
Compare that with the Wikipedia version available on September 17, 2009:
http://bit.ly/1ehmwq
If the eradication of the information available in April is deliberate, we are witness to a coverup.
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» RE: Agreed
Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: sam3
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Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 17, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What this basically means is more Pat Tillmans killed for no reason -- and hundreds of billions of more dollars down the drain.
If war is a terrible and horrendous waste, why is Afghanistan a "war of necessity"?
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» RE: No win, no withdrawal?
Posted by: Vik
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 17, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, the truth has been revealed. Once again, the Bush White House is exposed for the corrupt and incompetent fools that they are (Excuse me. I meant to say, "the Corrupt and incompetent fools they were"). Once again, they have a lot of explaining to do - a whole helluva lot! Did these assholes not learn a thing from the Jessica Lynch affair? Of course they didn't. The fact of the matter is, these people are incapable of learning anything.
Did they really believe they could keep the "Pat-as-action-hero-figure" story going forever? Do they actually believe they'll be able to white wash posterity? Are they that delusional that they think they'll be able to re-write history in order to revision themselves as people who had a clue as to what the hell they were doing? What are they thinking? What's the matter with them?
Still MORE Right Wing Lunacy
Tom Degan, Goshen, NY
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» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Good one, AM VET!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Their Little Tillman Problem
Posted by: sam3
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Posted by: peacelf on Sep 17, 2009 6:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a big fan of Krakauer. His books are enlightening and entertaining. However, I think he misunderstands one issue pertaining to Tillman's death based on what I read in this article.
It's a common mistake that Americans believe just because a country has borders and a "legitimate" government, that the people of that country are united together in harmonious patriotism toward their country and its leader. Krakauer seems to fall for that myth.
Pakistan's mountainous NW tribal region is beyond the politics of Islamabad. As Pakistani leaders have shown time and again, the best solution to prevent civil war is to leave the tribals alone.
Afghanistan is even worse. Karzai's power is more like a mayor of Kabul. His limited (stolen?) power is only legitimatized by american imperial support, but, honestly, he has little control over anything outside Kabul.
That's why the so-called mastermind of 9/11, bin Laden, can live with impunity between the two countries.
Krakauer doesn't seem to understand that years of nefarious imperial influence has created the "monsters" of the Middle East. It was the British who drew the borders around those countries, confining many historical enemies together, then they installed dictators and potentates to rule with an iron fist over the diverse peoples.
Bush foolishly thought he could impose democracy on the Middle East countries and magically bring them together.
Wherever imperialism lays its ugly hand, trouble is sure to follow, and Pat Tillman's tragic and unfortunate death is the by-product. Did Tillman understand that before he signed up?
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» Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001
Posted by: LeftWright
» Other then Spamming for Griffin
Posted by: EncinoM
» get on your unhappy hayride
Posted by: weathered
» Other then your masked Anti-Semtic comments
Posted by: EncinoM
» Other then Spamming for 9/11 Coincidence Theories
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Other then Spamming for 9/11 Coincidence Theories
Posted by: EncinoM
» Why Do Americans So Easily Believe Fairy Tales?
Posted by: Ray Duray
» RE: Why Do Americans So Easily Believe Fairy Tales?
Posted by: EncinoM
» You sure of the validity of OBL video and audio tapes?
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: You sure of the validity of OBL video and audio tapes?
Posted by: EncinoM
» Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: EncinoM
» Think outside the box and explore the 9/11 hypotheticals
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Think outside the box and explore the 9/11 hypotheticals
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Think outside the box and explore the 9/11 hypotheticals
Posted by: MaxBridges
» Right, Max. And I know where you get your BS, so quit yanking our collective crank.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Honesty about Fact-Checking
Posted by: MaxBridges
» RE: Honesty about Fact-Checking
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Are you going to answer the 9/11 hypotheticals?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001
Posted by: weathered
» brunowe - Your point is a valid one, however, family members traveled to Pakistan for a funeral,
Posted by: LeftWright
» Exploiting Pat Tillman's death in order to promote David Ray Grifter's 911 denier propaganda again?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: xploiting Pat Tillman's death in order to promote David Ray Grifter's 911 denier propaganda agai
Posted by: desmodroid
» RE: xploiting Pat Tillman's death in order to promote David Ray Grifter's 911 denier propaganda agai
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Habeas Corpus
Posted by: peacelf
» OBL is a key figure in the fraudulent war on terror,the main boogieman in the 9/11 false flag event
Posted by: LeftWright
» To anyone truly interested in learning about the events of 9/11/01, here are some places to start:
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 17, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bushies first and foremost committed High Treason to commit this atrocity, but it will take the prosecution for the War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity which resulted to finally bring them to Justice under both interantional an domestic Law.
We must demand the UN indict all those involved be prosectued in the international court so that we may have a mandate to investigate exactly how they were able to committ such crimes. Those who aided the Bushies will not be able to claim investigation are 'Partisan Witch hunts'. In fact I have no doubt a number of in both Houses, in both Parties and on SCOTUS will be also under investigation for complicty- So Be It!
Afghanistan was nothing more than the Foot in the Middle Eastern Door in a Blood for Oil profits venture. So then the question comes about the truth of 9/11. To unravel this web these investigation must return to Iran Contra,thecovert operations and assistance to the Afghani "Freedom Fighters" and Saddam during the '80's.All of Which Dick and Rummy's foot steps in Gov't provide the trail, and should lead straight to a Trial!
I am not typically a supporter of Capital punishment, but sometimes for crimes of such magnitude, no other form of punishment is adequate or acceptable.
Cheney has not only shown no remorse, but has continued to expound the 'virtues' of his deadly and inhuman agenda. Frankly I would like to see him hung with the same noose tied for Saddam, then zapped back to life so we can hang him again- for every year he has betrayed this country and committed heinous crimes around the world.
Cheney and Rummy's crimes are not limited to the last 8 yrs- they are a life long pursuit of greed and meglomania.
They scarificed the innocent on the Alter of self interest- no different than any other vile Emperors of the past.
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» Deterrent Force
Posted by: Ray Duray
» RE: The sacrifical slaughter of the 'Sacred'
Posted by: Tenzin
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Posted by: SteveA on Sep 17, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I just love articles like this
Posted by: Crazy H
» I agree, 100% %^)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I agree, 100% %^)
Posted by: Crazy H
» I know what a straw man is, Crazy H
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I just love articles like this
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: SteveA: Steamin' pile is cattle excrement.
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: Get-yar-BUll and his same tired Bull Shit.
Posted by: sasquuatch55
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 17, 2009 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those that chose these wars of aggression never had a plan, a strategy, or an exit; nor was there ever any thought out plan on what would happen not just to the people of Afghanistan, but the instability of the region in general! Even as they diverted into Iraq, this was about oil and who will control it! This was about the money to be made for Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater, etc., and all of the others "contracted" to "provide services" over there! That Pat Tillman along with hundreds of thousands more on both sides have lost their lives was incidental and given short shrift from those that were more concerned with the money and power that they would receive! Even now as our soldiers are returning wounded body and soul, they are still being treated abominably by our government, due to "so called budget cuts" are still turning away our returning (children) veterans without many of the services they have earned!
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» The reason why
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The reason why
Posted by: Crazy H
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Posted by: camusrebel on Sep 17, 2009 8:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My apologys to his family, my heart truly goes out to them. His Mom and brother were very strong and brave to testify at hearings covered by CSPAN, such deep grief and anger and sense of betrayal.
His notebooks were burned. Hmmmm.....wonder why. He was getting VERY disillusioned...considering coming back and telling how fucked up the whole raping and pillaging thing was going, even considering politics.
Can you imagine!! We would be outta there in a year's time. Can't have that...wunt be prudent.
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» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lerts try this again...
Posted by: camusrebel
» Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Crazy H
» Let's consult George Orwell, shall we?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Let's consult George Orwell, shall we?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Let's consult George Orwell, shall we?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE:Sounds like murder to me.
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Lemuel G.
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: Lemuel G.
» RE: Yo camusrebel!
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: Ray Duray
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: desmodroid
» RE: cmon Encino, Don't let him know the matrix was a movie
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Blackwater hit squads, on Cheney's orders murdered Pat
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin on Sep 17, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: its all lies
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: its all lies
Posted by: sam3
» Hey, SteveA...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: its all lies
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: its all lies
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Is SteveA really Guitar BUll?
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» No I'm GuitarBill. SteveA is SteveA.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» GuitarBill =/= SteveA: where GuitarBill's alias-equating ends
Posted by: MaxBridges
» You want an example of how dishonest "truthers" are, Max? Have a look at this:
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Don't enter the military
Posted by: sam3
» RE: Don't enter the military
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: But whose gonna fight the right wing religious wars?
Posted by: sasquuatch55
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SteveA on Sep 17, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, write Obama! (Just speak like you're adults. Get the librarian or somebody to help you.) Here's your chance to change history. No joke.
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Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 17, 2009 9:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, Americans keep voting in the people who support wars and coverups...Republicans and Democrats...Yeah, Tillman was murdered...he was thinking of going public against the war...the poster boy for recruiters was going off the reservation...motive is right there... the official story does not match up with the evidence...just like with 9-11.
9-11 was an inside job! It was the psyop to create the kind of tunnel vision that was required to move the nation unquestioningly to war. Can you imagine an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq without 9-11? These people are murderers and will stop at nothing. But what have Americans done? Like dogs returning to their vomit, they elect and re-elect these criminals who refuse to act for the nation and only serve the Oligarchy.
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» Again where is the
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: Prinzowhales
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: Haji54
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: camusrebel
» RE: Three bullets to the head in a 'firefight' for one...
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 17, 2009 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We'd used them before...allowing them through our UN arms embargo enforcement patrols to be the shock troops against the Serbs in Bosnia.
Al Qaeda's news agency's watermark was even found to have been placed on one of the OBL flicks released by the NSA front--INTEL CENTER--at the same time as their own watermark was placed.
Even the Taliban warned the US that something was up--along with around a dozen foreign intelligence agencies. You can't run a secret agency with that kind of penetration and you certainly can't launch a surprise attack when the punch has been telegraphed. The former President of Italy...former British cabinet members and a former German Defense Minister have come out and told the truth about the Regime's running of false-flag terror ops in OPERATION GLADIO and that 9-11 was esentially an inside job.
Just a few months prior to 9-11, the Taliban received $43 million from the State Department for their efforts in irradicating opium production. At the Berlin conference between the oil companies and Taliban, the latter were told that they could get a 'shower of gold or a shower of bombs' depending on whether they played ball with UNOCAL and friends.
Mad Dog Albright refused the Sudanese offer to serve OBL up to the Saudis, yet another proof that he was our man.
Americans like Pat Tilman died for nothing American. He died for the Oligarchy and their evil wars for resources, drugs and geopolitical pipe dreams.
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» excellent, could you contact me?
Posted by: tazdelaney
» You can find most of this information at 911blogger.com (and a whole lot more)
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 17, 2009 10:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Tillman was deceived, just as America was deceived...
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Sep 17, 2009 11:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Ray Duray on Sep 17, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5
"Hmm, I'm now very curious about how Jon Krakauer has dealt with the autopsy report on Pat Tillman. It has been reported that Cpl. Tillman suffered three rounds to his head."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/27/pat.tillman/index.html
"While it is possible that this is simply extraordinary bad luck, one also has to wonder if the report that snipers with highly sophisticated gun sights were involved might indicate something more sinister. Like the deliberate assassination of Pat Tillman."
"If Krakauer is whitewashing this aspect of the case, it would be rather damaging to Krakauer's reputation as a sterling truthteller and put him sadly into the category of deliberate disinformation agent."
Ummm... read the "The Climb" by Anatoli Boukreev, the guide that Krakauer picked as his villain for his "Into Thin Air" book - that should dispel any notions you have about Krakauer's journalistic integrity.
He's more into the sensationalist stuff. I wonder if he had the full cooperation of the Pentagon?
Three bullets in the forehead doesn't look like friendly fire, but rather assassination.
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» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: "Three bullets in the forehead"
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Here's some further info on the matter...
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Here's some further info on the matter...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Here's some further info on the matter...
Posted by: camusrebel
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rgoalierob on Sep 17, 2009 12:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tillman Was Fragged
Posted by: alive
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Posted by: letrightbedone on Sep 17, 2009 7:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: reipoking on Sep 17, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: alive on Sep 20, 2009 2:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what there was a cover up, Pat tillman couldn't obey orders and when his unit made contact with enemy forces he rushed out like a psycho charging the enemy like a complete frickin' moron, then when he realized that he was all alone and headed back to where the rest of his unit had taken cover like they were supposed to, like they teach you to do when coming under enemy fire, but no he had to be the cowboy and go it alone, then..."crossfire?", and he was killed!
At least in this case they made Tillman look a lot better than he really was, and I for one am glad I never served with him, although I have spoken to one soldier who did, and he hated him and was glad he got what was coming to him!
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» RE: Atheism and unpopular ideals...really?
Posted by: 77blazer
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Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 11, 2009 1:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
britannia hotel
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