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Naomi Klein Shows You Can Boycott Israel Without Cutting Off Dialogue Over Palestine

An interview with Klein and Israeli publisher Yael Lerer on why boycotting Israel will pressure the country to live up to international law.
September 1, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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Few global-justice campaigns are more polarizing, even explosive, than the effort to use international boycotts, divestment and sanctions to pressure Israel to end its 42-year occupation of the Palestinian territories.

Just ask Neve Gordon.

Recently, Gordon, head of the political science department at Ben-Gurion University and a longtime peace activist, published a wrenching op-ed in the Los Angeles Times endorsing the Palestinian call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS).

After initially opposing the tactic, he became convinced, he wrote, that outside pressure "is the only way that Israel can be saved from itself."

He was braced for a backlash, but nothing like what he has faced over the past few weeks -- members of the Israeli Knesset from a range of political parties called for his immediate sacking, the education minister called his article "repugnant," and his university president threw him under the bus saying, "Academic personalities who feel this way are invited to look for an academic and personal home elsewhere." She then hinted that his statement might have been an act of treason.

Clearly, BDS, part of the so-called South Africa strategy, crosses a line in the sand for many who believe that putting economic pressure on Israel is necessarily anti-Jewish.

But for proponents, BDS is a proven, nonviolent tactic that can pressure Israel to abide by international law, making an impact where various government efforts have failed and failed miserably.

Although Palestinian Civil Society made the BDS call in 2005, it gained momentum after Israel's brutal assault on Gaza this past December and January.

Now it is undeniably growing, particularly in the arts world. Respected writers such as John Berger, Eduardo Galeano and Adrienne Rich have all endorsed it; and Israeli film festivals have faced a string of boycotts.

Most recently, the Toronto International Film Festival's announcement of a special "city-to-city" celebration of Tel Aviv is threatening to turn the second most important film festival in the world (after Cannes) into a site of angry protests.

One of the most high-profile figures to endorse the call for BDS is Canadian author and activist Naomi Klein, who typically enjoys overflow crowds, extensive media coverage and brisk book sales when she goes on international book tours.

When it came to publishing her latest best-seller, The Shock Doctrine, in Hebrew and Arabic, Klein decided the political situation in Israel and Palestine called for an entirely different approach.

In opposition to Israel's occupation, she chose not to sign a traditional book deal with advances and royalties. Instead, she donated the book to Andalus, a publishing house that works actively against the occupation. It is the only Israeli publisher devoted exclusively to translating Arabic writing into Hebrew, something its founder Yael Lerer describes as "publishing as an act of resistance."

Klein and Lerer also set out to craft a book tour that would honor the Palestinian call for a cultural boycott of Israel while also showing that boycotts need not cut off much-needed communication and dialogue.

With this in mind, Klein and Lerer, used the tour to draw attention to the boycott and the Palestinian struggle and to spark an internal Israeli dialogue about boycott as a way to pressure Israel to live up to international law.

Last month in Tel Aviv, I sat down with Klein and Lerer to ask about the goals, meaning and nuts and bolts of implementing a cultural boycott, and also why Lerer, a Jewish Israeli, is telling the world, "Please, boycott me."

Here are some excerpts from that interview. -- Cecilie Surasky

* * *

Cecilie Surasky: What is the call for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions? Why are you supporting it?

Naomi Klein: Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions: It's a tactic with a very clear goal, to force Israel to comply with international law.

The call [for BDS] was made in 2005 by an extraordinarily broad range of Palestinian civil society groups, political parties, and trade unions. But it didn't really start to gain an international profile until the Israeli attack on Lebanon in the summer of 2006.

In the midst of the war, the writer John Berger sent out a letter, signed by many prominent artists, mostly European, declaring their support for the boycott strategy. When that letter surfaced, I was in the middle of writing The Shock Doctrine, and I made a personal decision at the time that when the book came out, I wouldn't do what I had done with the Hebrew translations of my previous two books, which was to publish with a fairly traditional commercial publisher.


Cecilie Surasky is the deputy director for Jewish Voice for Peace.
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Comments are closed-

Hope adores you Ms. Klein....
Posted by: foreverhope on Sep 1, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God bless every move you make and every breath you take. I can't imagine where America would be without your far-sighted brilliant astonishing wisdom.

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» RE: Hope adores you Ms. Klein.... Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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Too bad...
Posted by: laoma on Sep 1, 2009 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that this can't happen in the 'cradle of democracy', the USA. The sad thing is, is that it needs to happen here or the BDS simply won't work. With the billions that flow from our coffers to their coffin-makers, Israelis don't need to pay attention to anyone else. Shut the faucet off from the source. This has been the obvious solution since the mid-70s.

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A Must-Read article - I question only one thing ...
Posted by: stellabloo on Sep 1, 2009 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... "SEMI-apartheid"?

A pig by any other name is still a pig!

Remember this video? The colours of Isreal are slightly more homogenous and the Palestinians are nowhere near as fun-lovin-ly photogenic as the South African blacks - but the story remains the same:

"Sun City" by Artists United Against Apartheid

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» Thanks, stellablooo... Posted by: henderson

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Do you remember 'random acts of kindness'?
Posted by: weathered on Sep 1, 2009 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was in vogue once, the kind of messages many of us liked to hear and feel.

Lets get back our dignity, our esteem and integrity. This is a WE job, no one of us can do it alone.

Take All the religious/political/demographic baggage Out of the equation. Something bad happened to US w/bushcon - lets confront it and heal it.


Nothing worth while is easy, nothing, it takes courage but the dividends will be great, because w/out these kind of courageous steps like Ms.Klein's and countless others we'll suffer.

Take back the media, its time WE did the talking.

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Cultural boycott of Israel
Posted by: ossiechic on Sep 1, 2009 7:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be impossible to have a cultural boycott on Israel as the Holy Bible is a part of the everyday culture of millions of Christians.
An economic boycott maybe, but a cultural one impossible!
And in regards to rewarding Israel for its latest agression, it seems everyone conveniently forgets the transgressions against Israel that provoked that agression.
And to end Occupation means different things to different people.
To some Palestinians and most Israelis, this means going back to 1967 borders and therfore inadvertantly rewarding Arab invasion and intifadas.
To other Palestinians (and most Arabs) Occupation means the absolute dismantling of the Jewish state of Israel, returning to a greater Palestine where Jews, Muslims, Christians and other religious minorities, all have equal political and religious rights.
This term of Occupation must be constantly qualified, otherwise it becomes at best confusing and at worst meaningless.

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Demographics
Posted by: ossiechic on Sep 1, 2009 9:40 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And another thing - if Israel has 20% non-Jewish citizens (18% Christian, 2% Muslim and others) why shouldn't the Palestinian state have a certain similar percentage of Jewish and non-Arab citizens living there?
Those Jews, and others, who choose to give precedence to their religious faith in where they choose to live, over and above any political boundaries.

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» RE: Demographics Posted by: RedAaron

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A Welcome Discussion
Posted by: jonhaber on Sep 2, 2009 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off, hello to Cecile! You may remember me as a frequent commenter/contributor to your Muzzlewatch site before you chose to permanently shut down the comments section. Perhaps Alternet will demonstrate to you and JVP that voices (even challenging ones) that disagree with your point of view can only make the conversation you claim to crave more interesting.

I’ve been following the divestment debate this year on my new Divest This site (and even had time to write a piece on Naomi Klein’s recent embrace of BDS – see Schlock Doctrine). It’s interesting to note that in all of the examples you choose to highlight in your interview, each of the institutions BDS activists once held up as examples others should follow (such as the Presbyterians, Methodist and United Church of Canada, the UCU and NUJ unions in the UK, or Hampshire College) is mentioned nowhere in your discussion.

Could it be because each and every organization, once hailed for their support of divestment, has since overwhelmingly rejected BDS? And this rejection was not made by leadership fiat (since many leaders of these groups have been allied with BDS activists) but by overwhelming democratic votes taken by members who have been shown to hate divestment and other anti-Israel positions being shoved down their throat by out-of-touch leaderships.

Perhaps this full-throated rejection of BDS by civil society is why divestment activists have had to rely (as do you) on decisions by obscure artists to skip certain festivals (or outright hoaxes like Hampshire College) as their source of “victories” in the last year.

Jon Haber

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Israel is not in Europe.
Posted by: colinmeister on Sep 2, 2009 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For simply geographic reasons, Israel should not take part in the football European championship, and nor should it take part in the Eurovision song contest. Exclusion from these, and other European events, would be a positive first step in the boycott.

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» RE: Israel is not in Europe. Posted by: jonhaber

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Sanctions should include direct action!
Posted by: RedAaron on Sep 2, 2009 4:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Given that the totally unjustified sanctions against Gaza have been carried out with something other than non-violence, there's no reason why anti-imperialist fighters should not take direct action of various kinds to implement the totally justified sanctions against IsraHell and all those who provide it with material aid.

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» A Modest Proposal Posted by: stellabloo
» RE: A Modest Proposal Posted by: henderson

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besides oranges, bathingsuits & Dead Sea salt skin treatments...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Sep 2, 2009 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
.
.
. . . . what the fuck else does Israel produce but military loans??

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» RE: so what, nobody cares about that Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Who are the torturers? Posted by: RedAaron
» RE: Home Depot... Posted by: fearn

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watch out
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 2, 2009 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a lot of americans are in prison right now for giving money to palestinian charities. despite hamas victories in clean, un-bush-like, democratic elections... since the elections didn't go the way the USG wanted... hamas are 'terrorists' but not the israelis who kill at 100x the killings of hamas. but the real center of american power lies somewhere between riyadh and tel aviv.

as that multi-war-criminal henry kissinger said, "terrorists are people without the money for a full-scale military." according to the US census bureau itself, deaths fro all 20th century terrorist incidents totaled 5,761; while total war deaths by and between 'legitimate' governments were roughly 162 million. it is pretty apparent who the real terrorists are.

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Cognitive Dissonance
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Sep 2, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting to read the comments which are filled with cognitive dissonance regarding Israel and its actions.

It's as if these people live in an imaginary world where any input in the form of facts to the contrary is rejected by default.

It's similar to the say robots function.

When a robot is faced with information which it was not programmed to process, it produces an error.

Kind of like those automated phone systems.

If the response is not in the menu it repeats the menu options again and asks you to choose a "valid" option.

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» RE: Cognitive Dissonance Posted by: jonhaber

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Disinformation & Propoganda in support of Zionists
Posted by: cedaray1 on Sep 2, 2009 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Boycotts are something even poor people can do to proclaim the evil and cancer that are the Zionists in Israel who have been exposed for killing Palestinian youth for their organs and making a WILD profit. It will one day end, despite the disinformation posted even here on Alternet. Viva the boycott, condemn Israel for their ongoing crimes against us who are the people without the support of the US/Israel imperialists.

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So what? he asks
Posted by: cedaray1 on Sep 2, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You gotta problem with making a profit? It's what made the US such a great country and if it took murdering the natives and creating wars - it makes jobs (and very wealthy folks to look up to) so get over it. Making a profit is the bottom line.

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» RE: So what? he asks Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: So what? he asks Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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More anti-semitic nonsense
Posted by: mikep on Sep 2, 2009 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is not going to be any boycotts or sanctions against Israel, because virtually everyone in the world thinks Israel is in the right and supports what they do. They support the blockade of Gaza because they know that Hamas is violating international law and engaging in attacks on civilians. There is only a lunatic fringe of uninformed anti-semites who criticize Israel, but they have no support at all. At least not among educated, civilized people. But go ahead and try. It's no skin off of Israel's nose, and won't have the slightest impact. But there isn't a single solitary country that supports the BDS movement, and there won't be. Except maybe the ultra anti-semitic British, and they're a failed state that is pretty much irrelevant at this point. And I doubt that even there they would have trouble getting significant public support.

All these anti-semitic attacks are addressed at distracting attention from the real war crimes and human rights violations that their own, mostly Christian, nations are committing. Everybody knows that. It's easier to blame others than to take responsibility for their own actions.

You people are fighting a lost cause. The war between the Israelis and the Palestinians is OVER. The Israelis won and the Palestinians lost!!! That's all there is to it, so get over it and let the rest of the world move on. All that's left now is for the Palestinians to surrender and accept whatever terms the Israelis are generous enough to offer them. Or they can continue to isolate themselves from the world and continue to suffer. If they surrender soon they might be able to hold onto some of their land. If they don't, they'll lose it all and fade away into history. It's their choice. But the world doesn't care either way. It's long since come to the conclusion that the war was begun by the Palestinians and was entirely their fault, and has since moved on to other much more pressing issues.

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» RE: More anti-semitic nonsense Posted by: Squarehead

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The Arabs are apartheid, not Israel
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Sep 2, 2009 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When was the last time you saw a march or boycott against Jordan? Jordan refuses to allow Jews to own land or become citizens. When was the last time you saw a march or boycott against Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia refuses to allow Jews to own land or become citizens (and they aren't any nicer to Christians either). When was the last time any of you read the Hamas or Palestinian charters? They call for the destruction of Israel and they insist that any Palestinian state be free of Jews. What, no boycott against them? Oh, I guess getting rid of Jews must be one of your common causes.

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» Actually Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: The Arabs are apartheid, not Israel Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Go all the way!
Posted by: empressofpeace on Sep 2, 2009 4:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Efforts by Cecilie,Naomi and Yael will help only somewhat IF at all, to stop the genocide and ethnic-cleansing of non-Jewish Palestinians by the Jews of Israel, which are supported by most Jews in the diaspora and also the deluded Christian Zionists, not to mention with US tax payers dollars, although they are not give a choice with regards to this.

What Cecilie, Naomi and Yael fail to address is the racist nature of a Jewish state at all on land that was stolen from Palestinian Arabs both Muslim and Christian. A Jewish state does NOT have "the right to exist" on stolen Arab land. The Jewish state must transform into a truly democratic state with equal rights for all, and whereever possible, the Jews in Israel who are occupying Palestinian land, homes, businesses and orchards, must GIVE IT BACK.

The first step is to set up a Truth and Reconciliation Council to dismantle the Zionist Jewish regime and replace it with a truly representational democracy with a constitution guaranteeing before the law completely equal rights for ALL regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or gender, and that applies also for allowing ALL the Palestinian refugees their inalienable Right to Return, as equals, and with reparations, to their ancestral homeland of Palestine-Israel.

Don't whitewash the Jewish state of Israel's systematic genocide and ethnic-cleansing of non-Jews in Palestine-Israel by referring to it merely as "occupation and segregation"! It is FAR WORSE than that. Look up the definition of genocide and ethnic-cleansing-- these terms apply to Israel and it's been going on since the day Israel was immorally created and even before 1948. Having an "anti-occupation stand" is simply not enough and is actually deceptive! What does that mean if there is no solution offered such as the ONE-DEMOCRATIC-STATE solution, which is the ONLY solution which is in complete harmony with modern, American, democratic values of equal rights for ALL, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity or gender. There must be NO DOUBLE STANDARDS.

If Andalus wants to be CLEAR then it should be also anti-apartheid, anti-segregation, anti-genocide, anti-ethnic-cleansing, anti-double standards, anti-Jewish supremacism, anti-segregation, and not just "anti-occupation". Andulus, IF SINCERE, should be for completely equal rights for ALL, and for the inalienable Right to Return for the Palestinian refugees who were kicked out of their land. As for Jews, they should only go to Israel for religious or sentimental pilgrimages as Christians go to the Holy Land, or the Vatican, or Muslims go to Mecca. Just as tourists. Jews really have no "right" to just up and go have a second, third or fourth home in Israel. Jews are not persecuted anywhere. And they don't have the right to steal Palestinian land even if they were! Never did have that moral right! Two wrongs DON'T make a right.

Yael said she knows many "people (in Israel) who don't have any other passports and who don't have any other options." That's not what the statistics show, nor what I have personally found to be true. Most "Israelis" have two or more passports and don't live in Israel full-time. Israel is a racist, criminal, vanity project for Jews and it should be completely abandoned, except for those Jews who truly don't have any other options, but even they can go to where their relatives live, in Brooklyn, Florida or Russia or England, for instance, and the wealthy Jewish philanthropists can help them re-locate, no doubt.

The fact is, Cecilie, Naomi and Yael-- you're not going far enough to correct the wrongs which must be corrected.

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WE ARE CHANGE
Posted by: empressofpeace on Sep 2, 2009 4:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, I think you should also point out that Palestinian voices are "virtually inaudible in the West" due to Jewish control of the media-- look-- even Joel Stein of the LA Times wrote a detailed article just recently about that, full of facts, and he is proud of this, and he thinks that's the way it should be. As a matter of fact, isn't it time we had affirmative action with regards to our media here in the USA???

Besides focussing all your attention on Israeli Jews, I suggest that you also focus on American Jews, and the Christian Zionists. After all, as Yael said, "Israel could not continue the occupation (genocide, ethnic-cleansing) for one single day without the support of the United States and the European Union." So we all need to do something about this too. It's not easy when you have murderous thugs like the JDL out there, and their higherups, the ADL, but everything changes.

WE are CHANGE. REAL CHANGE.

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Les Pauls
Posted by: lpauls on Sep 2, 2009 8:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naomi Klein has an excellent idea about boycotting Israel until every resident under Israeli control receives equal treatment, regardless of ones religion. Furthermore, an international boycott of American goods and services should also be included as the Americans finance and give Political support to the Brutal, Apartheid,
Israeli occupation of Palestine.

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» RE: Les Pauls Posted by: RedAaron
» RE: Les Pauls Posted by: empressofpeace

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Thank You Empress
Posted by: cedaray1 on Sep 3, 2009 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For stating it clearly. Genocide, racism, murder and land theft must be reconciled. The landscape must change, the land must be returned that was stolen. There will be no peace until then, but the Zionists have made it clear from the beginning. Peace was never on their agenda. The people of Palestine from whom they stole land are considered less than animals, unworthy even of life. They will have to be forced one way or the other and economic embargo is one language they understand. Finally, the US will end its support. Thank you for your words and thoughts of Peace and reconciliation. It's a message that must be repeated and action taken.

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It's simple folks...
Posted by: fearn on Sep 13, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel is the most vicious state on the planet.

If you don't know that you are not paying attention OR you don't want to know.

As the worlds most vicious nation on earth Israel should be boycotted. It's simple.

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the comments here are shocking...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Sep 13, 2009 2:02 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naomi Klein is once again insightful and is reporting a noble cause, but...

Israel has a right to exist... period...

I do agree Israeli methods are extreme but the alternative is another genocide and no home willing to take there people... do we really want history to repeat itself?

The land claimed by Israel is the ancient and proven homeland of the Jewish people... when the people [all people] of the disrupted terror-tories respect the ancient and cultural rights of the jewish people to return to their homeland then I can/will support them, but until the people of this entire region recognize the state of Israel they will get no support from me... PERIOD...

Personally I think they all are a little insane there and are willing to kill and be killed for their narrow objectives...

I myself refuse to allow another Holocaust, be it either Palestinian or Israeli... they are after all the same ancient people...
all this is nothing more then semitic semantics

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Could it be because
Posted by: teon6 on Sep 20, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Could it be because each and every organization, once hailed for their support of divestment, has since overwhelmingly rejected BDS? And this rejection was not made by leadership fiat (since many leaders of these groups have been allied with BDS activists) but by overwhelming democratic votes taken by members who have been shown to hate divestment and other anti-Israel positions being shoved down their throat by out-of-touch leaderships.

Perhaps this full-throated rejection of BDS by civil society is why divestment activists have had to rely (as do you) on decisions by obscure artists to skip certain festivals supernatural subtitles supernatural season 5 av (audio/video) wireless transmitter av wireless transmitter gossip girl season 3 gossip girl seropol5 (or outright hoaxes like Hampshire College) as their source of “victories” in the last year.

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Naomi Klein: A Jewish Soul Yearns
Posted by: eathummus on Sep 23, 2009 6:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naomi Klein's book, The Shock Doctrine, as she describes it discusses the behavior of the public (and its leadership) during a crises. However, during the recent war with Gaza, where Israeli citizens "inside the Green Line" were systematically attacked by neighboring Gazans-even after the withdraw of Israelis from the Strip (the ethnic cleansing of Gaza). Is this yet another case of a secular Jew who simply doesn't understand the dynamics of the problems in Israel? Another Zohan?

The Anti-Self Defamation League
www.asdl.biz

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Alternet Comments:

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Hope adores you Ms. Klein....
Posted by: foreverhope on Sep 1, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God bless every move you make and every breath you take. I can't imagine where America would be without your far-sighted brilliant astonishing wisdom.

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» RE: Hope adores you Ms. Klein.... Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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Too bad...
Posted by: laoma on Sep 1, 2009 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that this can't happen in the 'cradle of democracy', the USA. The sad thing is, is that it needs to happen here or the BDS simply won't work. With the billions that flow from our coffers to their coffin-makers, Israelis don't need to pay attention to anyone else. Shut the faucet off from the source. This has been the obvious solution since the mid-70s.

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A Must-Read article - I question only one thing ...
Posted by: stellabloo on Sep 1, 2009 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... "SEMI-apartheid"?

A pig by any other name is still a pig!

Remember this video? The colours of Isreal are slightly more homogenous and the Palestinians are nowhere near as fun-lovin-ly photogenic as the South African blacks - but the story remains the same:

"Sun City" by Artists United Against Apartheid

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» Thanks, stellablooo... Posted by: henderson

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Do you remember 'random acts of kindness'?
Posted by: weathered on Sep 1, 2009 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was in vogue once, the kind of messages many of us liked to hear and feel.

Lets get back our dignity, our esteem and integrity. This is a WE job, no one of us can do it alone.

Take All the religious/political/demographic baggage Out of the equation. Something bad happened to US w/bushcon - lets confront it and heal it.


Nothing worth while is easy, nothing, it takes courage but the dividends will be great, because w/out these kind of courageous steps like Ms.Klein's and countless others we'll suffer.

Take back the media, its time WE did the talking.

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Cultural boycott of Israel
Posted by: ossiechic on Sep 1, 2009 7:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be impossible to have a cultural boycott on Israel as the Holy Bible is a part of the everyday culture of millions of Christians.
An economic boycott maybe, but a cultural one impossible!
And in regards to rewarding Israel for its latest agression, it seems everyone conveniently forgets the transgressions against Israel that provoked that agression.
And to end Occupation means different things to different people.
To some Palestinians and most Israelis, this means going back to 1967 borders and therfore inadvertantly rewarding Arab invasion and intifadas.
To other Palestinians (and most Arabs) Occupation means the absolute dismantling of the Jewish state of Israel, returning to a greater Palestine where Jews, Muslims, Christians and other religious minorities, all have equal political and religious rights.
This term of Occupation must be constantly qualified, otherwise it becomes at best confusing and at worst meaningless.

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Demographics
Posted by: ossiechic on Sep 1, 2009 9:40 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And another thing - if Israel has 20% non-Jewish citizens (18% Christian, 2% Muslim and others) why shouldn't the Palestinian state have a certain similar percentage of Jewish and non-Arab citizens living there?
Those Jews, and others, who choose to give precedence to their religious faith in where they choose to live, over and above any political boundaries.

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» RE: Demographics Posted by: RedAaron

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A Welcome Discussion
Posted by: jonhaber on Sep 2, 2009 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off, hello to Cecile! You may remember me as a frequent commenter/contributor to your Muzzlewatch site before you chose to permanently shut down the comments section. Perhaps Alternet will demonstrate to you and JVP that voices (even challenging ones) that disagree with your point of view can only make the conversation you claim to crave more interesting.

I’ve been following the divestment debate this year on my new Divest This site (and even had time to write a piece on Naomi Klein’s recent embrace of BDS – see Schlock Doctrine). It’s interesting to note that in all of the examples you choose to highlight in your interview, each of the institutions BDS activists once held up as examples others should follow (such as the Presbyterians, Methodist and United Church of Canada, the UCU and NUJ unions in the UK, or Hampshire College) is mentioned nowhere in your discussion.

Could it be because each and every organization, once hailed for their support of divestment, has since overwhelmingly rejected BDS? And this rejection was not made by leadership fiat (since many leaders of these groups have been allied with BDS activists) but by overwhelming democratic votes taken by members who have been shown to hate divestment and other anti-Israel positions being shoved down their throat by out-of-touch leaderships.

Perhaps this full-throated rejection of BDS by civil society is why divestment activists have had to rely (as do you) on decisions by obscure artists to skip certain festivals (or outright hoaxes like Hampshire College) as their source of “victories” in the last year.

Jon Haber

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Israel is not in Europe.
Posted by: colinmeister on Sep 2, 2009 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For simply geographic reasons, Israel should not take part in the football European championship, and nor should it take part in the Eurovision song contest. Exclusion from these, and other European events, would be a positive first step in the boycott.

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» RE: Israel is not in Europe. Posted by: jonhaber

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Sanctions should include direct action!
Posted by: RedAaron on Sep 2, 2009 4:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Given that the totally unjustified sanctions against Gaza have been carried out with something other than non-violence, there's no reason why anti-imperialist fighters should not take direct action of various kinds to implement the totally justified sanctions against IsraHell and all those who provide it with material aid.

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» A Modest Proposal Posted by: stellabloo
» RE: A Modest Proposal Posted by: henderson

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besides oranges, bathingsuits & Dead Sea salt skin treatments...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Sep 2, 2009 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
.
.
. . . . what the fuck else does Israel produce but military loans??

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» RE: so what, nobody cares about that Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Who are the torturers? Posted by: RedAaron
» RE: Home Depot... Posted by: fearn

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watch out
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 2, 2009 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a lot of americans are in prison right now for giving money to palestinian charities. despite hamas victories in clean, un-bush-like, democratic elections... since the elections didn't go the way the USG wanted... hamas are 'terrorists' but not the israelis who kill at 100x the killings of hamas. but the real center of american power lies somewhere between riyadh and tel aviv.

as that multi-war-criminal henry kissinger said, "terrorists are people without the money for a full-scale military." according to the US census bureau itself, deaths fro all 20th century terrorist incidents totaled 5,761; while total war deaths by and between 'legitimate' governments were roughly 162 million. it is pretty apparent who the real terrorists are.

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Cognitive Dissonance
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Sep 2, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting to read the comments which are filled with cognitive dissonance regarding Israel and its actions.

It's as if these people live in an imaginary world where any input in the form of facts to the contrary is rejected by default.

It's similar to the say robots function.

When a robot is faced with information which it was not programmed to process, it produces an error.

Kind of like those automated phone systems.

If the response is not in the menu it repeats the menu options again and asks you to choose a "valid" option.

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» RE: Cognitive Dissonance Posted by: jonhaber

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Disinformation & Propoganda in support of Zionists
Posted by: cedaray1 on Sep 2, 2009 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Boycotts are something even poor people can do to proclaim the evil and cancer that are the Zionists in Israel who have been exposed for killing Palestinian youth for their organs and making a WILD profit. It will one day end, despite the disinformation posted even here on Alternet. Viva the boycott, condemn Israel for their ongoing crimes against us who are the people without the support of the US/Israel imperialists.

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So what? he asks
Posted by: cedaray1 on Sep 2, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You gotta problem with making a profit? It's what made the US such a great country and if it took murdering the natives and creating wars - it makes jobs (and very wealthy folks to look up to) so get over it. Making a profit is the bottom line.

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» RE: So what? he asks Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: So what? he asks Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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More anti-semitic nonsense
Posted by: mikep on Sep 2, 2009 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is not going to be any boycotts or sanctions against Israel, because virtually everyone in the world thinks Israel is in the right and supports what they do. They support the blockade of Gaza because they know that Hamas is violating international law and engaging in attacks on civilians. There is only a lunatic fringe of uninformed anti-semites who criticize Israel, but they have no support at all. At least not among educated, civilized people. But go ahead and try. It's no skin off of Israel's nose, and won't have the slightest impact. But there isn't a single solitary country that supports the BDS movement, and there won't be. Except maybe the ultra anti-semitic British, and they're a failed state that is pretty much irrelevant at this point. And I doubt that even there they would have trouble getting significant public support.

All these anti-semitic attacks are addressed at distracting attention from the real war crimes and human rights violations that their own, mostly Christian, nations are committing. Everybody knows that. It's easier to blame others than to take responsibility for their own actions.

You people are fighting a lost cause. The war between the Israelis and the Palestinians is OVER. The Israelis won and the Palestinians lost!!! That's all there is to it, so get over it and let the rest of the world move on. All that's left now is for the Palestinians to surrender and accept whatever terms the Israelis are generous enough to offer them. Or they can continue to isolate themselves from the world and continue to suffer. If they surrender soon they might be able to hold onto some of their land. If they don't, they'll lose it all and fade away into history. It's their choice. But the world doesn't care either way. It's long since come to the conclusion that the war was begun by the Palestinians and was entirely their fault, and has since moved on to other much more pressing issues.

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» RE: More anti-semitic nonsense Posted by: Squarehead

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The Arabs are apartheid, not Israel
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Sep 2, 2009 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When was the last time you saw a march or boycott against Jordan? Jordan refuses to allow Jews to own land or become citizens. When was the last time you saw a march or boycott against Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia refuses to allow Jews to own land or become citizens (and they aren't any nicer to Christians either). When was the last time any of you read the Hamas or Palestinian charters? They call for the destruction of Israel and they insist that any Palestinian state be free of Jews. What, no boycott against them? Oh, I guess getting rid of Jews must be one of your common causes.

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» Actually Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: The Arabs are apartheid, not Israel Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Go all the way!
Posted by: empressofpeace on Sep 2, 2009 4:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Efforts by Cecilie,Naomi and Yael will help only somewhat IF at all, to stop the genocide and ethnic-cleansing of non-Jewish Palestinians by the Jews of Israel, which are supported by most Jews in the diaspora and also the deluded Christian Zionists, not to mention with US tax payers dollars, although they are not give a choice with regards to this.

What Cecilie, Naomi and Yael fail to address is the racist nature of a Jewish state at all on land that was stolen from Palestinian Arabs both Muslim and Christian. A Jewish state does NOT have "the right to exist" on stolen Arab land. The Jewish state must transform into a truly democratic state with equal rights for all, and whereever possible, the Jews in Israel who are occupying Palestinian land, homes, businesses and orchards, must GIVE IT BACK.

The first step is to set up a Truth and Reconciliation Council to dismantle the Zionist Jewish regime and replace it with a truly representational democracy with a constitution guaranteeing before the law completely equal rights for ALL regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or gender, and that applies also for allowing ALL the Palestinian refugees their inalienable Right to Return, as equals, and with reparations, to their ancestral homeland of Palestine-Israel.

Don't whitewash the Jewish state of Israel's systematic genocide and ethnic-cleansing of non-Jews in Palestine-Israel by referring to it merely as "occupation and segregation"! It is FAR WORSE than that. Look up the definition of genocide and ethnic-cleansing-- these terms apply to Israel and it's been going on since the day Israel was immorally created and even before 1948. Having an "anti-occupation stand" is simply not enough and is actually deceptive! What does that mean if there is no solution offered such as the ONE-DEMOCRATIC-STATE solution, which is the ONLY solution which is in complete harmony with modern, American, democratic values of equal rights for ALL, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity or gender. There must be NO DOUBLE STANDARDS.

If Andalus wants to be CLEAR then it should be also anti-apartheid, anti-segregation, anti-genocide, anti-ethnic-cleansing, anti-double standards, anti-Jewish supremacism, anti-segregation, and not just "anti-occupation". Andulus, IF SINCERE, should be for completely equal rights for ALL, and for the inalienable Right to Return for the Palestinian refugees who were kicked out of their land. As for Jews, they should only go to Israel for religious or sentimental pilgrimages as Christians go to the Holy Land, or the Vatican, or Muslims go to Mecca. Just as tourists. Jews really have no "right" to just up and go have a second, third or fourth home in Israel. Jews are not persecuted anywhere. And they don't have the right to steal Palestinian land even if they were! Never did have that moral right! Two wrongs DON'T make a right.

Yael said she knows many "people (in Israel) who don't have any other passports and who don't have any other options." That's not what the statistics show, nor what I have personally found to be true. Most "Israelis" have two or more passports and don't live in Israel full-time. Israel is a racist, criminal, vanity project for Jews and it should be completely abandoned, except for those Jews who truly don't have any other options, but even they can go to where their relatives live, in Brooklyn, Florida or Russia or England, for instance, and the wealthy Jewish philanthropists can help them re-locate, no doubt.

The fact is, Cecilie, Naomi and Yael-- you're not going far enough to correct the wrongs which must be corrected.

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WE ARE CHANGE
Posted by: empressofpeace on Sep 2, 2009 4:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, I think you should also point out that Palestinian voices are "virtually inaudible in the West" due to Jewish control of the media-- look-- even Joel Stein of the LA Times wrote a detailed article just recently about that, full of facts, and he is proud of this, and he thinks that's the way it should be. As a matter of fact, isn't it time we had affirmative action with regards to our media here in the USA???

Besides focussing all your attention on Israeli Jews, I suggest that you also focus on American Jews, and the Christian Zionists. After all, as Yael said, "Israel could not continue the occupation (genocide, ethnic-cleansing) for one single day without the support of the United States and the European Union." So we all need to do something about this too. It's not easy when you have murderous thugs like the JDL out there, and their higherups, the ADL, but everything changes.

WE are CHANGE. REAL CHANGE.

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Les Pauls
Posted by: lpauls on Sep 2, 2009 8:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naomi Klein has an excellent idea about boycotting Israel until every resident under Israeli control receives equal treatment, regardless of ones religion. Furthermore, an international boycott of American goods and services should also be included as the Americans finance and give Political support to the Brutal, Apartheid,
Israeli occupation of Palestine.

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» RE: Les Pauls Posted by: RedAaron
» RE: Les Pauls Posted by: empressofpeace

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Thank You Empress
Posted by: cedaray1 on Sep 3, 2009 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For stating it clearly. Genocide, racism, murder and land theft must be reconciled. The landscape must change, the land must be returned that was stolen. There will be no peace until then, but the Zionists have made it clear from the beginning. Peace was never on their agenda. The people of Palestine from whom they stole land are considered less than animals, unworthy even of life. They will have to be forced one way or the other and economic embargo is one language they understand. Finally, the US will end its support. Thank you for your words and thoughts of Peace and reconciliation. It's a message that must be repeated and action taken.

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It's simple folks...
Posted by: fearn on Sep 13, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel is the most vicious state on the planet.

If you don't know that you are not paying attention OR you don't want to know.

As the worlds most vicious nation on earth Israel should be boycotted. It's simple.

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the comments here are shocking...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Sep 13, 2009 2:02 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naomi Klein is once again insightful and is reporting a noble cause, but...

Israel has a right to exist... period...

I do agree Israeli methods are extreme but the alternative is another genocide and no home willing to take there people... do we really want history to repeat itself?

The land claimed by Israel is the ancient and proven homeland of the Jewish people... when the people [all people] of the disrupted terror-tories respect the ancient and cultural rights of the jewish people to return to their homeland then I can/will support them, but until the people of this entire region recognize the state of Israel they will get no support from me... PERIOD...

Personally I think they all are a little insane there and are willing to kill and be killed for their narrow objectives...

I myself refuse to allow another Holocaust, be it either Palestinian or Israeli... they are after all the same ancient people...
all this is nothing more then semitic semantics

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Could it be because
Posted by: teon6 on Sep 20, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Could it be because each and every organization, once hailed for their support of divestment, has since overwhelmingly rejected BDS? And this rejection was not made by leadership fiat (since many leaders of these groups have been allied with BDS activists) but by overwhelming democratic votes taken by members who have been shown to hate divestment and other anti-Israel positions being shoved down their throat by out-of-touch leaderships.

Perhaps this full-throated rejection of BDS by civil society is why divestment activists have had to rely (as do you) on decisions by obscure artists to skip certain festivals supernatural subtitles supernatural season 5 av (audio/video) wireless transmitter av wireless transmitter gossip girl season 3 gossip girl seropol5 (or outright hoaxes like Hampshire College) as their source of “victories” in the last year.

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Naomi Klein: A Jewish Soul Yearns
Posted by: eathummus on Sep 23, 2009 6:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naomi Klein's book, The Shock Doctrine, as she describes it discusses the behavior of the public (and its leadership) during a crises. However, during the recent war with Gaza, where Israeli citizens "inside the Green Line" were systematically attacked by neighboring Gazans-even after the withdraw of Israelis from the Strip (the ethnic cleansing of Gaza). Is this yet another case of a secular Jew who simply doesn't understand the dynamics of the problems in Israel? Another Zohan?

The Anti-Self Defamation League
www.asdl.biz

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