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Cruel and Unusual: Why Are We Doling Out Harsh Justice to Returning War Vets?

Veterans are more likely to get longer sentences than non-veterans for the same crime. How can we treat returning soldiers so badly?
August 5, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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Last March, a member of one of the U.S. military's special operations forces (SOF), home from Iraq for a family emergency, shot and killed a dog that attacked him on his front lawn. He is now facing multiple felony charges and maybe a prison sentence.

 

His story is as old as war, and like war, everything depends on who tells it.

At this soldier's request, I will call him Brian, although that is not his real name, and I will refer to his service unit simply as a special operations force (e.g., the Army's Green Berets, Delta Force, Rangers, or the Navy's SEALs), to protect the identity of the elite team he works with.

SOF members go to great lengths to guard their anonymity. Their missions are often clandestine and dangerous, not to mention controversial. And so, even the publicity of a trial, much less a felony conviction, would very likely deprive Brian of his career. He is still hoping a judge can be persuaded to dismiss the charges altogether -- hence his insistence on camouflaging his identity.

Brian joined the service in 1995, right after graduating from high school. By the time he was 25, he had completed the rigorous training required of a member of the SOF and has been deployed many times to various countries on classified assignments. He has a stellar military record, including a Bronze Star, and his civilian record is completely clean.

Family and friends I have reason to trust described him to me as "a straight arrow," "an outstanding soldier," "a good father" and "a good person."

Brian was granted an emergency leave to support his wife and family after she miscarried with their third child. He arrived on a Monday. On Tuesday, after dropping off his two sons at school, he returned home, and as he was walking from his car the dog attacked. He shot it three times with the handgun he legally carries. He then called 911.

The police arrived, heard Brian's account of what had happened, heard a number of neighbors tell stories about how dangerous the dog was and left without issuing Brian so much as a summons.

But several days later, two felony warrants issued and a misdemeanor charge by local animal control officers was made. And on Saturday morning, the county police arrived at his home, arrested and handcuffed him in front of his wife and children, and took him off to jail where he was held for three days.

Brian retained a local lawyer and, in the subsequent weeks, one of the felony charges and the misdemeanor charge were dropped. The felony animal-cruelty charge remained. But at his arraignment, he was charged with an additional felony (destruction of property) and three more misdemeanors (disorderly conduct, firing a weapon in a prohibited area and another animal-cruelty charge).

A trial date was set for September.

Blind Justice?

Iconographic representations of Lady Justice adorn many of the world's courthouses. With the scale she holds in one hand, she promises to weigh the evidence fairly, and with the sword she holds in the other, to enforce her decisions. She also wears a blindfold to indicate her impartiality to the social status or privilege of those who stand before her.

She is Blind Justice, but as William Ian Miller pointedly asks in his examination of the Talionic code (an eye for an eye), "Do you want to blindfold someone with a sword? It may not be wise to have her unable to see what she is striking. … And how is she supposed to read the scales, if she is blind?"

Objectivity is one of those ideals -- or ideas -- that simply don't exist in the real world.

Take incarcerated veterans. One might imagine that veterans would get equal, if not preferential, treatment when they come in contact with the criminal justice system. Not so.

Over three decades, surveys done by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) have consistently found that veterans get longer sentences than non-veterans -- on average two years longer -- for the same crime.

And that is in spite of the fact that they tend to be better educated, are more likely to have been employed at the time of their arrest and are more likely to be in jail for a first offense -- all of which should be factors in their favor at sentencing.

Instead, they are held either to a higher standard, as in, "They should know better." Or a lower one that demonizes them, as in, "He's a trained killer. Think of our women and children. Get him off our streets." But either way, the scales of justice tend not to tip in favor of those who have served in the military.

Is that what is going on in Brian's case?

Arguably, Brian should never have been arrested, let alone charged. This dog had a reputation for aggressive behavior and had repeatedly tried to attack his wife and kids. On one occasion, it chased them into their house and continued to bark and snarl and leap at the glass storm door behind which they had retreated. His terrified wife filed a complaint with the local animal-control agency.

The dog's owner was ordered to keep the animal on her own property. That report is documented. It seems the owner had chosen to ignore -- and the dog had clearly not understood -- those instructions.


Penny Coleman is the widow of a Vietnam veteran who took his own life after coming home. Her book Flashback: Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, Suicide and the Lessons of War was released on Memorial Day 2006. Her Web site is Flashback.
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How come if you are a Viettnam vet you get a break?
Posted by: Libsrule on Aug 5, 2009 12:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I seem to recall that under most sentencing guidelines being a war vet brought a lighter sentence so it seems as though the so called "defense" attorneys are not doing their job. IF the sentence can be lighter for those vets because of the stress' of war, then it should be the same for Iraqi and Paki vets.

So someone needs to look into why they are not getting the help they need and better sentences.

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» Mean keen killing machine. Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Mean keen killing machine. Posted by: willymack
» RE: Mean keen killing machine. Posted by: December5
» RE: Mean keen killing machine. Posted by: moyshekapoyre
» Active duty Posted by: MOTELCALIFORNIA

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Mr. Tough Guy Rambo
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Aug 5, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't know Alternet loved America's own SS, the Special Forces, so much. Oh yeah. We really want him to continue in cognito so he can slaughter Iraqis, Afghanis and Pakistanis.

The dog should get a posthumous medal.

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» RE: Mr. Tough Guy Rambo Posted by: inprov73
» the dog is a freedom fighter! Posted by: johnwinthrop
» special forces are murdering goons Posted by: johnwinthrop
» that's what makes it authentic Posted by: johnwinthrop

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morgan1
Posted by: morgan1 on Aug 5, 2009 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this story disturbing on several levels. He was legally armed and had the right to protect himself and did so. Even the police saw no reason to charge him or arrest him. The dog owner should have been charged for failure to comply as well as possessing a deadly animal out of control. The fact that animal control seemed to by-pass everyone directly involved and went after this vet seems vindictive and petty. If this article is correct, they are after the max and throwing everything they can at this person. There is something wrong about this. If there is a legal fund for this vet, I will donate to his legal defense. The owner of the dog is ultimately responsible and should face charges in criminal as well as civil court. On the other hand, I do not believe Vets should be given lighter sentences (Compared to civilians) for crimes committed, nor should they be given harsher sentences. I do believe the military and civilian agencies should do a better job of taking care of all our vets and this they are not doing--As always. The military trained them for specific tasks and that training is not shut off by some switch. The military MUST accept responsibility for their soldiers when they are returned to civilian status full-time or part-time.

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» Bad Example Posted by: laoma
» RE: Bad Example Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Wrong on the law Posted by: brunowe
» I stand corrected Posted by: laoma
» RE: morgan1 Posted by: colinsyme
» RE: morgan1 Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: morgan1 Posted by: Razional Thinker

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The Facts, as presented here,...
Posted by: gazooks on Aug 5, 2009 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...suggests a justifiable action consistent with what any humane or animal control officer is trained to do under similar circumstances.

Why this veteran is charged as he is is discretionary to the judgment of the magistrate or prosecuting attorney according to the applicable statutes of city/ county and/or state government.

In a disposable culture with a willful blind eye, justice rarely enters into the equation of law enforcement, just as it's absent from our foreign policies that require masses of specialized killers.

The residue of a rationalized amorality is always politics swayed by the contradictory and hypocritical views that a compromised and complicit society applies to it's "heros" and "villains" alike because we often can't distinguish between them or see past our own fears, self-interests and ambitions.

Another instance in a long list symptomatic of a dying culture.

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Gosh, it would be great if the author could come up with
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 5, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a specific example to illustrate the point being made about sentencing rather than using semi-anonymous BJS statistics (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/vsfp04.txt) and the story of a guy who hasn't even been convicted. The study in question also states that the number of veterans in prisons is steadily declining, that most of those imprisoned veterans are convicted of serious violent crimes, and that the perception that they are receiving longer sentences is based on reports by prisoners themselves, not on any direct review of sentencing statistics. In other words, the statistic quoted could easily be an indication that veteran/criminals simply lack the remorse that common human decency emotes in the average criminal, or that veterans are getting special breaks in the charges of which they are convicted which are mitigated by longer sentences. A specific example would be helpful.

Beyond all of that, it should be noted that where the author uses the word "controversial" to describe some SF missions, a less compromising and more honest adjective would be "criminal." Even outside the SF's, soldiers guilty of waging aggressive war and other crimes against international law and humanity and who will never be punished for those crimes are common, and generally do not deserve to be the objects of sympathy, gratitude, or mercy.

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Eventually you will pay
Posted by: phindrup on Aug 5, 2009 6:12 AM   
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Wait until some of the neglected, bitter returnees have killed/raped a few citizens --- and it will happen --- as they have been trained to do, then hear the screams!
You trained them to slaughter innocents, men women and children, taught them that taking what they wanted at the point of a gun was the thing to do --- you will reap what you sowed!

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Mr. Iraq....allow me to introduce you to Mr. Vietnam
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 5, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many flag-waving soldiers deployed to Iraq were fooled into believing Saddam Hussein was the mastermind, or the co-mastermind, of the 911 debacle. That'd make their illegal invasion task that much easier. However, after so much factual revelations came to light, the soldiers do not try to win "the hearts of minds" of the "ungrateful" Iraqis and just count the days they are forced to be there. Of course, when they are not ensconsed in heavily fortified bases, bored out of their minds, or dreading the prospect of going out on patrol, all that has to have an effect on the grunts mentality.

Some claim that Iraq is not like Vietnam. That is true. More U.S. servicewomen are killed in Iraq than in Vietnam. A lot more. Beyond that, barring the obvious topography, the differences blur.

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Harsh Justice For Vets ?
Posted by: itchyvet on Aug 5, 2009 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DUH, am I really seeing this stuff, and the responces ?
Boy Oh Boy, what is it with Americans, they simply are unable to see the wood for the trees.
I'm a Vietnam Vet, (yeah I know, bloody dinosaur) but the fact is, Vietnam Vets were, AND ARE STILL TO THIS VERY DAY, treated in exactly the same manner.
The reason, good folks is simple, these people have swallowed the kool aid and beleived everything their Government and Authorities have told them throughout their lives until they set foot into the war zone.
Sadly, from that moment onwards, they discover everything they've ever believed in IS A LIE.
Put yourselves into their shoes, imagine you manage to survive and come home in one piece with just your mental capacity never ever to acheive the quilibrium it had prior to your departure, you cannot live as you did before, KNOWING it was an alternative parrallel reality, therefore the powers that be, must discredit you in every way they can, just in case you ever find someone clever enough to understand what you're telling them and then God forbid, spreading it about.
Why do you think your Vet hospitals are in such a dismal state, why do you think your military does not recognise PTSD as a medical condition ? DUH !
The other alternative is to do away with yourself, as thousands are doing,(Which your Govt is very pleased about) or to swallow eveything and jump on board the Govts train to nowhere, Yes Sir, No Sir three bags full Sir until retirement, always looking over your shoulder terrified you may upset your masters by a wrong word here or there.
And Americans have the gall to call their country Free and a Democracy ? WOW !
What will it take for you folks to wake up and see what's going on right before your blind eyes ?

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The author of this piece...
Posted by: fearn on Aug 5, 2009 6:55 AM   
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seems to suggest that America should treat its military fairly. Why discriminate now? America has treated virtually every other country unfairly and millions of its own citizens. Why should the military be any different??

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Maybe Because They're Murderers, Torturers and Baby Killers?
Posted by: rastaman on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DUH!

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I hope vets are beginning to realize they're just pawns in the war machine of the
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Aug 5, 2009 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
military/industrial/banking/mainstream-media complex!

Kill one person & it's murder; kill thousands & it's just foreign policy.

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Waterboard Wolfowitz
Posted by: weathered on Aug 5, 2009 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and bushcon, they're criminals.

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» Weather loves to ... Posted by: EncinoM

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WHEN WE REALLY 'SUPPORT THE TROOPS'
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 5, 2009 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder what the reaction will when the returning veterans start going to college for free? 100,000 are already enrolled. This is long overdue but I'm not sure everyone sees it that way. We have a moral obligation to our soldiers, along with the widows and the orphans. So now the people with the "Support Your Troops" ribbons on their cars can 'really' support their troops. ANNA

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Civilians don't get it
Posted by: brother51 on Aug 5, 2009 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
whether on the right or the left- civilians don't understand military culture, they don't understand war and they really do not understand combat veterans. There is a huge gray area between- "all active duty military and vets are killers" and "all active duty military and vets are great citizens and heroes". Unless we learn more about the realities and complexities of military life and war and the wide variety of experiences our servicemen and women have, we will continue to make erroneous judgments and dumb comments to and about our vets. And sadly, those who represent our criminal justice system will continue to do things that reflect their ignorance and cause undue harm to vets and their families. My heart goes out this soldier, his wife and children and I hope that whoever is pushing these criminal charges reads this thoughtful piece and thinks twice about what they are doing and why they are doing it.

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prison sentences
Posted by: Glasgow Smile on Aug 5, 2009 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's because returning veterans are 10 times as likely to grab a gun and blast their way out of a problem situation. It's what they were trained to do. The chickens are coming home to roost. These people are dangerous murderers, even the least threatening of them have witness atrocities that no human being should ever see, and perpetrated them on innocent civilians as well as "combatants."

Check out the testimony at Winter Soldier for more of their horrific experiences.

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You see, folks; it's like this
Posted by: willymack on Aug 5, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War is a racket, and those who foment, promote, and profit from it are racketeers.
They can be seen at their marinas, exclusive country clubs, and gala socials, aimed at praising them to the sky and elevating them to demigod status. Remember Julius Caesar?
As long as ordinary people fall for the racketeers' bullshit, they'll be marching off to phony wars, while the crooks stay safely at home and collect the profits.

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14th amendment
Posted by: tazdelaney on Aug 5, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the 14th amendment 'guarantees' equal treatment under the law, but has always been a sham. for example, while whites consume slightly more than their portion of illegal drugs and represent 70% of the population, over 60% of prisoners of the drugwar are non-white. whites spend 5x or more on lawyers than blacks, mostly because they can afford it.

seems obvious that vets should be treated no differently than anyone else charged with a crime and 'justice' is supposed to be blind... but this just doesn't exist in actuality.

as with vietnam, the streets of america are now littered with homeless vets; which puts the lie to all the bumper stickers espousing 'we support our troops.' also, these returning, as in the fort collins battallion whose murder rate is 114x that of the general population shows that when men are brainwashed into being mass-murderers and torturers; they can't and don't just turn that off on returning home. there is no on-off switch for the artificial psycho killer.

the vet in question over the dog killing is described as 'a good soldier.' but what does that mean? does that mean he killed a lot of people his government told him were the enemy? the nuremberg trials determined that just because one is ordered to commit murder or torture is not a justification. so, from the top down from bush and obama down to the guy doing the shooting... all should be charged as much as any murderer on america's streets. but, like caligula said, "as long as i keep rome happy; i can do as i like in the provinces." he'd've loved clusterbombs and 'rendition.'

i remember one day's headlines in the Durham Morning Herald... "Lt Calley Pardoned." right alongside this one, "CHarles Manson Sentenced To Life In Prison." this essentially said that having ordered the killings of 8 americans was a crime; while ordering the killings of 800 vietnamese was not.

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maybe we should also donate to 'Brians' legal defense fund ?
Posted by: guns4everyone on Aug 5, 2009 1:56 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
another pathetic right-wing support-our-troops wag !!

Maybe Ms Coleman could clear up a few questions since she is obviously so close to the facts in this case:

1 Why is Brian compelled to carry a gun for dropping his kids off at school ?

2 Was Brian actually being bitten or about to be, by this savage dog, or was it just barking at him

3 Since the initial-response cops obviously gave him the benefit of the doubt (three shots !?!? For a dog in the middle of a residential neighborhood !?!?) and only upon later investigation were complaints drawn up, is there some other aspect of 'Brians' behavior Ms Coleman is conveniently neglecting to tell us about ?

There is nothing automatically admirable about signing up for military service, especially when that service was and is part of a running campaign of unprovoked assualts upon and occupations of the weak and largely defenseless. In fact to anyone with even a smigen of morals, voluntary participation in the above is a crime against humanity as declared by the Nuremburg Tribunals not even mitigated by some bullshit "I was only following orders".

As far as returning vets being "unjustly" singled out maybe it's because they have to be (see www.alternet.org/story/18857/bringing_the_violence_home/
)

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Let them suffer the consequences
Posted by: Frank J. Burris on Aug 5, 2009 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they didn't want to end up w/the psychological damage they have, they shouldn't have gone and fought in this blatantly imperialistic war. Foolish actions sometimes result in harsh consequences.

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They're home, now they're our guys (gals)
Posted by: PaulK on Aug 5, 2009 9:11 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can wildly speculate on why soldiers get harsher sentences.

1a. Sometimes they act like prisoners. Well, yes, they've been locked up in a barracks for years, yelled at a lot and deprived of sleep. The judge has seen cons before and applies the same standards.

1b. Maybe for some reason they remind the judge of the last domestic killer in the courtroom, all disconnected from feeling about killing people.

2a. They don't act normal. Brain concussions. 300,000 vets have brain injuries.

2b. The same with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

2c. Gulf War Syndrome. These guys are a bit crazy in the head because tiny amounts of toxic chemicals in the air travel straight to their mood centers through the nose-brain barriers, causing crazy moments. 250,000 vets have Gulf War Syndrome.

3. Two particular acts of war can mess people up: knowingly killing people, and seeing buddies killed. Some ex-soldiers come to terms with the bad dreams, and some don't.

4. Are ex-soldiers more prone to violence than the average person?

5. If nothing else, military training has given them a better physique. Do they look more threatening?

I may not know exactly why ex-soldiers are so messed or why they draw longer sentences, but I suspect the government could make a higher percentage of vets more normal if they tried.

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I prefer any dog over any of you posters.
Posted by: blitzmesser on Aug 5, 2009 11:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a shame.
The dog only obeys orders of the decrepit "you". shame on you.
I would chose to save the dog, any day.

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It's a "bundled" component
Posted by: talkville on Aug 6, 2009 6:13 AM   
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This is part and parcel of the mantra "Support The Troops", its use, abuse and exploitation. No one is more keenly aware of this than the veterans themselves. Cannon-fodder is cannon-fodder, sometimes its celebrated, sometimes decried. But still cannon-fodder.

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clae shoes
Posted by: wen on Aug 6, 2009 7:56 PM   
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Leakman
Posted by: Leakman on Aug 9, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is actually a lack of common sense and the government not doing their job and blaming someone else for their failure. #1. The animal control officer should lose his job and the owner of this animal should be the one in jail. #2. All special operations trained personell are not trained killers, as most of you out there, who get your info from Rambo movies and hollywood hype, seem to think. The Jag should step in and defend this individual and his rights. #3. He has a lawful carry permit and has extensive training in firearm use and safety. More so than most of the wingnuts able to carry and bring a gun into a bar as in some states.

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homeless vets
Posted by: kevinpeters on Aug 18, 2009 7:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, as with vietnam, the streets of america are now littered with homeless vets; which puts the lie to all the bumper stickers espousing 'we support our troops.' also, these returning, as in the fort collins battallion whose murder rate is 114x that of the general population shows that when men are brainwashed into being mass-murderers and torturers; buy online they can't and don't just turn that off on returning home. there is no on-off switch for the artificial psycho killer.

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DVD to Gphone Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 24, 2009 6:45 PM   
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DVD to Gphone Converter

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asrfwae
Posted by: mjx729 on Aug 28, 2009 7:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Convert To Apple TV
Posted by: 250baichi on Aug 31, 2009 1:42 AM   
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Convert To Apple TV

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How come if you are a Viettnam vet you get a break?
Posted by: Libsrule on Aug 5, 2009 12:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I seem to recall that under most sentencing guidelines being a war vet brought a lighter sentence so it seems as though the so called "defense" attorneys are not doing their job. IF the sentence can be lighter for those vets because of the stress' of war, then it should be the same for Iraqi and Paki vets.

So someone needs to look into why they are not getting the help they need and better sentences.

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» Mean keen killing machine. Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Mr. Tough Guy Rambo
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Aug 5, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't know Alternet loved America's own SS, the Special Forces, so much. Oh yeah. We really want him to continue in cognito so he can slaughter Iraqis, Afghanis and Pakistanis.

The dog should get a posthumous medal.

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» RE: Mr. Tough Guy Rambo Posted by: inprov73
» the dog is a freedom fighter! Posted by: johnwinthrop
» special forces are murdering goons Posted by: johnwinthrop
» that's what makes it authentic Posted by: johnwinthrop

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morgan1
Posted by: morgan1 on Aug 5, 2009 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this story disturbing on several levels. He was legally armed and had the right to protect himself and did so. Even the police saw no reason to charge him or arrest him. The dog owner should have been charged for failure to comply as well as possessing a deadly animal out of control. The fact that animal control seemed to by-pass everyone directly involved and went after this vet seems vindictive and petty. If this article is correct, they are after the max and throwing everything they can at this person. There is something wrong about this. If there is a legal fund for this vet, I will donate to his legal defense. The owner of the dog is ultimately responsible and should face charges in criminal as well as civil court. On the other hand, I do not believe Vets should be given lighter sentences (Compared to civilians) for crimes committed, nor should they be given harsher sentences. I do believe the military and civilian agencies should do a better job of taking care of all our vets and this they are not doing--As always. The military trained them for specific tasks and that training is not shut off by some switch. The military MUST accept responsibility for their soldiers when they are returned to civilian status full-time or part-time.

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» Bad Example Posted by: laoma
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The Facts, as presented here,...
Posted by: gazooks on Aug 5, 2009 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...suggests a justifiable action consistent with what any humane or animal control officer is trained to do under similar circumstances.

Why this veteran is charged as he is is discretionary to the judgment of the magistrate or prosecuting attorney according to the applicable statutes of city/ county and/or state government.

In a disposable culture with a willful blind eye, justice rarely enters into the equation of law enforcement, just as it's absent from our foreign policies that require masses of specialized killers.

The residue of a rationalized amorality is always politics swayed by the contradictory and hypocritical views that a compromised and complicit society applies to it's "heros" and "villains" alike because we often can't distinguish between them or see past our own fears, self-interests and ambitions.

Another instance in a long list symptomatic of a dying culture.

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Gosh, it would be great if the author could come up with
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 5, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a specific example to illustrate the point being made about sentencing rather than using semi-anonymous BJS statistics (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/vsfp04.txt) and the story of a guy who hasn't even been convicted. The study in question also states that the number of veterans in prisons is steadily declining, that most of those imprisoned veterans are convicted of serious violent crimes, and that the perception that they are receiving longer sentences is based on reports by prisoners themselves, not on any direct review of sentencing statistics. In other words, the statistic quoted could easily be an indication that veteran/criminals simply lack the remorse that common human decency emotes in the average criminal, or that veterans are getting special breaks in the charges of which they are convicted which are mitigated by longer sentences. A specific example would be helpful.

Beyond all of that, it should be noted that where the author uses the word "controversial" to describe some SF missions, a less compromising and more honest adjective would be "criminal." Even outside the SF's, soldiers guilty of waging aggressive war and other crimes against international law and humanity and who will never be punished for those crimes are common, and generally do not deserve to be the objects of sympathy, gratitude, or mercy.

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Eventually you will pay
Posted by: phindrup on Aug 5, 2009 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wait until some of the neglected, bitter returnees have killed/raped a few citizens --- and it will happen --- as they have been trained to do, then hear the screams!
You trained them to slaughter innocents, men women and children, taught them that taking what they wanted at the point of a gun was the thing to do --- you will reap what you sowed!

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Mr. Iraq....allow me to introduce you to Mr. Vietnam
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 5, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many flag-waving soldiers deployed to Iraq were fooled into believing Saddam Hussein was the mastermind, or the co-mastermind, of the 911 debacle. That'd make their illegal invasion task that much easier. However, after so much factual revelations came to light, the soldiers do not try to win "the hearts of minds" of the "ungrateful" Iraqis and just count the days they are forced to be there. Of course, when they are not ensconsed in heavily fortified bases, bored out of their minds, or dreading the prospect of going out on patrol, all that has to have an effect on the grunts mentality.

Some claim that Iraq is not like Vietnam. That is true. More U.S. servicewomen are killed in Iraq than in Vietnam. A lot more. Beyond that, barring the obvious topography, the differences blur.

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Harsh Justice For Vets ?
Posted by: itchyvet on Aug 5, 2009 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DUH, am I really seeing this stuff, and the responces ?
Boy Oh Boy, what is it with Americans, they simply are unable to see the wood for the trees.
I'm a Vietnam Vet, (yeah I know, bloody dinosaur) but the fact is, Vietnam Vets were, AND ARE STILL TO THIS VERY DAY, treated in exactly the same manner.
The reason, good folks is simple, these people have swallowed the kool aid and beleived everything their Government and Authorities have told them throughout their lives until they set foot into the war zone.
Sadly, from that moment onwards, they discover everything they've ever believed in IS A LIE.
Put yourselves into their shoes, imagine you manage to survive and come home in one piece with just your mental capacity never ever to acheive the quilibrium it had prior to your departure, you cannot live as you did before, KNOWING it was an alternative parrallel reality, therefore the powers that be, must discredit you in every way they can, just in case you ever find someone clever enough to understand what you're telling them and then God forbid, spreading it about.
Why do you think your Vet hospitals are in such a dismal state, why do you think your military does not recognise PTSD as a medical condition ? DUH !
The other alternative is to do away with yourself, as thousands are doing,(Which your Govt is very pleased about) or to swallow eveything and jump on board the Govts train to nowhere, Yes Sir, No Sir three bags full Sir until retirement, always looking over your shoulder terrified you may upset your masters by a wrong word here or there.
And Americans have the gall to call their country Free and a Democracy ? WOW !
What will it take for you folks to wake up and see what's going on right before your blind eyes ?

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The author of this piece...
Posted by: fearn on Aug 5, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
seems to suggest that America should treat its military fairly. Why discriminate now? America has treated virtually every other country unfairly and millions of its own citizens. Why should the military be any different??

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Maybe Because They're Murderers, Torturers and Baby Killers?
Posted by: rastaman on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DUH!

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I hope vets are beginning to realize they're just pawns in the war machine of the
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Aug 5, 2009 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
military/industrial/banking/mainstream-media complex!

Kill one person & it's murder; kill thousands & it's just foreign policy.

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Waterboard Wolfowitz
Posted by: weathered on Aug 5, 2009 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and bushcon, they're criminals.

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» Weather loves to ... Posted by: EncinoM

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WHEN WE REALLY 'SUPPORT THE TROOPS'
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 5, 2009 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder what the reaction will when the returning veterans start going to college for free? 100,000 are already enrolled. This is long overdue but I'm not sure everyone sees it that way. We have a moral obligation to our soldiers, along with the widows and the orphans. So now the people with the "Support Your Troops" ribbons on their cars can 'really' support their troops. ANNA

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Civilians don't get it
Posted by: brother51 on Aug 5, 2009 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
whether on the right or the left- civilians don't understand military culture, they don't understand war and they really do not understand combat veterans. There is a huge gray area between- "all active duty military and vets are killers" and "all active duty military and vets are great citizens and heroes". Unless we learn more about the realities and complexities of military life and war and the wide variety of experiences our servicemen and women have, we will continue to make erroneous judgments and dumb comments to and about our vets. And sadly, those who represent our criminal justice system will continue to do things that reflect their ignorance and cause undue harm to vets and their families. My heart goes out this soldier, his wife and children and I hope that whoever is pushing these criminal charges reads this thoughtful piece and thinks twice about what they are doing and why they are doing it.

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prison sentences
Posted by: Glasgow Smile on Aug 5, 2009 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's because returning veterans are 10 times as likely to grab a gun and blast their way out of a problem situation. It's what they were trained to do. The chickens are coming home to roost. These people are dangerous murderers, even the least threatening of them have witness atrocities that no human being should ever see, and perpetrated them on innocent civilians as well as "combatants."

Check out the testimony at Winter Soldier for more of their horrific experiences.

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You see, folks; it's like this
Posted by: willymack on Aug 5, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War is a racket, and those who foment, promote, and profit from it are racketeers.
They can be seen at their marinas, exclusive country clubs, and gala socials, aimed at praising them to the sky and elevating them to demigod status. Remember Julius Caesar?
As long as ordinary people fall for the racketeers' bullshit, they'll be marching off to phony wars, while the crooks stay safely at home and collect the profits.

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14th amendment
Posted by: tazdelaney on Aug 5, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the 14th amendment 'guarantees' equal treatment under the law, but has always been a sham. for example, while whites consume slightly more than their portion of illegal drugs and represent 70% of the population, over 60% of prisoners of the drugwar are non-white. whites spend 5x or more on lawyers than blacks, mostly because they can afford it.

seems obvious that vets should be treated no differently than anyone else charged with a crime and 'justice' is supposed to be blind... but this just doesn't exist in actuality.

as with vietnam, the streets of america are now littered with homeless vets; which puts the lie to all the bumper stickers espousing 'we support our troops.' also, these returning, as in the fort collins battallion whose murder rate is 114x that of the general population shows that when men are brainwashed into being mass-murderers and torturers; they can't and don't just turn that off on returning home. there is no on-off switch for the artificial psycho killer.

the vet in question over the dog killing is described as 'a good soldier.' but what does that mean? does that mean he killed a lot of people his government told him were the enemy? the nuremberg trials determined that just because one is ordered to commit murder or torture is not a justification. so, from the top down from bush and obama down to the guy doing the shooting... all should be charged as much as any murderer on america's streets. but, like caligula said, "as long as i keep rome happy; i can do as i like in the provinces." he'd've loved clusterbombs and 'rendition.'

i remember one day's headlines in the Durham Morning Herald... "Lt Calley Pardoned." right alongside this one, "CHarles Manson Sentenced To Life In Prison." this essentially said that having ordered the killings of 8 americans was a crime; while ordering the killings of 800 vietnamese was not.

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maybe we should also donate to 'Brians' legal defense fund ?
Posted by: guns4everyone on Aug 5, 2009 1:56 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
another pathetic right-wing support-our-troops wag !!

Maybe Ms Coleman could clear up a few questions since she is obviously so close to the facts in this case:

1 Why is Brian compelled to carry a gun for dropping his kids off at school ?

2 Was Brian actually being bitten or about to be, by this savage dog, or was it just barking at him

3 Since the initial-response cops obviously gave him the benefit of the doubt (three shots !?!? For a dog in the middle of a residential neighborhood !?!?) and only upon later investigation were complaints drawn up, is there some other aspect of 'Brians' behavior Ms Coleman is conveniently neglecting to tell us about ?

There is nothing automatically admirable about signing up for military service, especially when that service was and is part of a running campaign of unprovoked assualts upon and occupations of the weak and largely defenseless. In fact to anyone with even a smigen of morals, voluntary participation in the above is a crime against humanity as declared by the Nuremburg Tribunals not even mitigated by some bullshit "I was only following orders".

As far as returning vets being "unjustly" singled out maybe it's because they have to be (see www.alternet.org/story/18857/bringing_the_violence_home/
)

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Let them suffer the consequences
Posted by: Frank J. Burris on Aug 5, 2009 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they didn't want to end up w/the psychological damage they have, they shouldn't have gone and fought in this blatantly imperialistic war. Foolish actions sometimes result in harsh consequences.

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They're home, now they're our guys (gals)
Posted by: PaulK on Aug 5, 2009 9:11 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can wildly speculate on why soldiers get harsher sentences.

1a. Sometimes they act like prisoners. Well, yes, they've been locked up in a barracks for years, yelled at a lot and deprived of sleep. The judge has seen cons before and applies the same standards.

1b. Maybe for some reason they remind the judge of the last domestic killer in the courtroom, all disconnected from feeling about killing people.

2a. They don't act normal. Brain concussions. 300,000 vets have brain injuries.

2b. The same with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

2c. Gulf War Syndrome. These guys are a bit crazy in the head because tiny amounts of toxic chemicals in the air travel straight to their mood centers through the nose-brain barriers, causing crazy moments. 250,000 vets have Gulf War Syndrome.

3. Two particular acts of war can mess people up: knowingly killing people, and seeing buddies killed. Some ex-soldiers come to terms with the bad dreams, and some don't.

4. Are ex-soldiers more prone to violence than the average person?

5. If nothing else, military training has given them a better physique. Do they look more threatening?

I may not know exactly why ex-soldiers are so messed or why they draw longer sentences, but I suspect the government could make a higher percentage of vets more normal if they tried.

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I prefer any dog over any of you posters.
Posted by: blitzmesser on Aug 5, 2009 11:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a shame.
The dog only obeys orders of the decrepit "you". shame on you.
I would chose to save the dog, any day.

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It's a "bundled" component
Posted by: talkville on Aug 6, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is part and parcel of the mantra "Support The Troops", its use, abuse and exploitation. No one is more keenly aware of this than the veterans themselves. Cannon-fodder is cannon-fodder, sometimes its celebrated, sometimes decried. But still cannon-fodder.

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clae shoes
Posted by: wen on Aug 6, 2009 7:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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Leakman
Posted by: Leakman on Aug 9, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is actually a lack of common sense and the government not doing their job and blaming someone else for their failure. #1. The animal control officer should lose his job and the owner of this animal should be the one in jail. #2. All special operations trained personell are not trained killers, as most of you out there, who get your info from Rambo movies and hollywood hype, seem to think. The Jag should step in and defend this individual and his rights. #3. He has a lawful carry permit and has extensive training in firearm use and safety. More so than most of the wingnuts able to carry and bring a gun into a bar as in some states.

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homeless vets
Posted by: kevinpeters on Aug 18, 2009 7:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, as with vietnam, the streets of america are now littered with homeless vets; which puts the lie to all the bumper stickers espousing 'we support our troops.' also, these returning, as in the fort collins battallion whose murder rate is 114x that of the general population shows that when men are brainwashed into being mass-murderers and torturers; buy online they can't and don't just turn that off on returning home. there is no on-off switch for the artificial psycho killer.

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DVD to Gphone Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 24, 2009 6:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DVD to Gphone Converter

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asrfwae
Posted by: mjx729 on Aug 28, 2009 7:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China Nike Dunks news agency, Beijing, a spokesman for Nike Dunks 8 Yue August 27 (Xinhua Huang Shaohua) - 27 days, Taiwan's Nike Dunks strength Democratic Progressive Party, part of the Office of the State Council Taiwan affair Nike Dunk SB invited the Dalai Lama, Nike Dunk SB visited the Nike Dunk SB location of the Taiwan issue. The spokesman said that Dalai is not purely Nike Dunk a Nike Dunk religious figure, he is a Nike Dunk banner of religion to participate in Nike Dunk High separatist activities of those who Nike Dunk High. Nike Dunk High in the Dalai Lama, in what form and Nike Dunk Low state is not Nike Dunk Low to the Taiwan, we are firmly Nike Dunk Low has been opposed to. Nike Air Max spokesman pointed out that while China has a Nike Air Max helper all the Nike Air Max social status, the Air Max Shoes as soon as possible to support Taiwan's Air Max Shoes efforts to overcome the Air Max Shoes disasters and rebuild their homes, when the DPP some of the Air Max 90 people, even the use of Air Max 90 the opportunity to plan the activities of the Dalai Lama's Air Max 90 to Taiwan, apparently does not Air Max 90 Relief

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Convert To Apple TV
Posted by: 250baichi on Aug 31, 2009 1:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Convert To Apple TV

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