COMMENTS: 63
"Hello Mum, This Is Going to Be Hard for You to Read..." -- Letters from a Dead Soldier in Afghanistan
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In the spring of this year, the 2nd Battalion of The Rifles regiment of the British Army deployed to Afghanistan. Halfway through the battalion's tour, it has lost nine soldiers, with dozens injured.
Of those to have given their lives, four were teenagers. Here Rifleman Cyrus Thatcher, who was 19 when he was killed by an explosion near Gereshk seven weeks ago, tells his own story, through letters home and the last letter he left behind to bid farewell to his family – his mother Helena, father Robin and brothers Zac, 21, and Steely, 17.
These are the words of a proud soldier described by his officers as possessing "a rucksack full of potential", and by his friends as a rascal always cracking jokes and helping to keep morale high. Most of all, they are the words of a young son to his mum, dad and brothers.
27 April 2009
Hello Mum
I've just got your bluey [letter] (the 1st one) yea you are right it does get fucking hot, I can't work out wether I'm tanned or just burnt to fuck!! I've spoke to you on the phone so you no what I've been doing. I'm well proud of you loosing all that weight. Suppose you've got a pretty good insentive. We'v had the same shit maybe a month now. Everyday a Monday out here. You kind of loose track of days. I cant quite work out if its going fast or slow. This pen is shit its doing my head in!!
Iv been thinking of loads of things and places to do, go and see. Me and Elliott are gonna go to Amsterdam after this. THINK WE MAY HAVE DESERVED IT!! It should be a good day (November 5th) [their homecoming parade]. On the 6th we can go Belfast Iv'e got loads of sad things I wanna buy ie Sky+ Big TV. Get the old man to help me rearange my room and help me fix my shelves. Im not the DIY type normally resort to celler tape or blue tack. HA HA HA. Hope everyones safe at home. Complete detox out here – water no drink. So my dance moves might involve a bit of stumbling when I return! Im coming home 2 weeks earlier now so that's kinda good, it might be worth Zac picking me up give me a bit of chill out time so I don't try stab a gobby civvi plus he's a good listener, sumtimes I wonder if he's listening or thinking of sumthing completely irrelivant.
Well pass this round the family so they can all admire my extream spelling (infantry eh!). Lots of love to all the nearest and dearest. Love Ya!! Xxxx
1 May 2009
Hey Mum + family
Ill always address my letters to you cuz I no your probley the only one who gets to the mail!! You'll have to let me no how quick these are getting you ill keep writing the date?? Everything is good up this way getting hotter, still moving at a million miles per hour (HA HA HA) I think Iv'e stopped burning Im slowly going brown and my hair is getting ridiculous just wait till I come home ill look like a fucking wooky?! I was gonna write to granny + grandad but to be honest with the few spare hours I get Id'e rather write home ey? BTW send my regards to Daphne, Joan, Brian etc. Let em no how Im doing?
Every so often we get old people and churches send us little gifts like baby wipes, razors, sweets and stuff so its quite a good bit of moral. Got some really good photos ill have to bring my camera back so we can get that Kosovo collage on the go, to bring back on the 5th of November. If you saw what and where Ive been sleeping you would be shocked!! So pictures will back me up!
Unfortunately 3 blokes died 2 days ago in an IED explosion in one of the FOBs [Forward Operating Bases] bout 2 kilometers away – we visited that FOB 2 days before the attack – fucking mental quite scary actually! We'v had a rest day so Im doing a bit of hand washing and fitness! God you'd be so proud Ha! Ha! Ha! We've still had spam, rice, beans and unflavoured noodles every day – promise me actually I promise you if I see spam in the house ill fucking destroy it!! Im getting pretty good at making flat bread and we bout a goat of a local for 200 dollars and we slaughtered it. I got a good video. Its either catch it, kill it, or make it out here or else you go hungry LOL!! The showers are also freezing whilst Im on the subject of moaning?? Id'e best go again BUT ill keep writing when I get the time + ill be home in a couple of months. Love you'zzz all don't worry bout me to much. Theres only 3 things that kill people over hear BULLETS, BOMBS + EGOS so I might go down with a bad case of swollen head!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Love ya xxxxx
12 May 2009
Hello Mother
Yesterday was a massive day for moral an american chopper came in yesterday. I got 5 blueys one from Zac, Daphne, I think Sharpie sent one and Dad?? With some pictures that was great. I stared at them for about an hour I cant explain how good it is to get pictures and stuff you get grown men close to tears at the sight of there kid or a good night out its really strange how this place fucks with your head and emotions. A BIG ONE that I NEED you to try do (get started ill help when I get back) is appeal to local charitys, churches, major companys ie Zoo, Cadburys, boots you name it. Write to them and explain my whereabouts and they do send gifts, chocolate, sweets, magazines you name it trust me a lot of the lads parents did it and they've got clothes, the lot. Trust me Red bull, lucazade, fags AND SWEETS are wicked just keep sending them and URGE people to send photos they keep the moral SKY HIGH. I thought Steely and Zacs [poses] in the garden were quality. I can only prove how much a letter or small parcel means by finding time to right back – that's probley the most precious thing I have and Id'e trade hours for a letter.
On some much sadder news one of our rifleman died a few days back, we had a parade and a few minutes silence its so strange how many emotions you go through living in these conditions its like everything wants to beat you and rewin your day. Its about not letting it get to you and don't worry nothing fucking gets to me. Well Im off I love you all loads thanks for my parcels and letters. Lots of love xxx
14 May 2009
Hey Mum!
Its just gone 10 in the morning here Im on a stag rotation for the next 7 days guarding the FOB. Its 6 hours on 3 hours off so not much sleep. (Im already an hour in). If you could see what Im looking at now you'd be pretty shocked. Its pretty stunning to be honest. I could probley sling shot a stone from where we were last contacted [shot at] from Ha! Ha! Ha! Pretty fucking crazy huh? I shouldn't really tell you this but its safer than on the phone – were leaving this place. Its gonna be a fucking massive operation moving this lot + a lot of helicopter rides. So when I come back after R&R [leave] ill fly to [the main British camp] bastion then out to our new FOB. You don't really do much on stag. Swetting my tits of its gonna hit 50 degrees today. AAAAH Shit my grenade just fell out of my [body armour] – we wont mention that to any higherarcy will we now.
I think you said you were going to a weight loss thing a few days ago hope that well? (Just keep going) 37 days ill be home – not that Im counting or anything??? THINK there's a bird coming in today at 13.30 so this bluey will probley arrive with the others – well as always gotta go ill try ring when I get a top-up of minuets on Monday. FUCK knows what day it is I thought it was Sunday today. Ha! Ha! Well lots of love to you all!
Cyrus Thatcher was killed on 2 June 2009. This is the letter he wrote to be delivered to his family if he died:
Hello its me, this is gonna be hard for you to read but I write this knowing every time you thinks shits got to much for you to handle (so don't cry on it MUM!!) you can read this and hopefully it will help you all get through.
For a start SHIT I got hit!! Now Iv got that out the way I can say the things Iv hopefully made clear, or if I havent this should clear it all up for me. My hole life you'v all been there for me through thick and thin bit like a wedding through good and bad. Without you I believe I wouldn't have made it as far as I have. I died doing what I was born to do I was happy and felt great about myself although the army was sadly the ending of me it was also the making of me so please don't feel any hate toward it. One thing I no I never made clear to you all was I make jokes about my life starting in the Army. That's wrong VERY wrong my life began a LONG time before that (Obviously) but you get what I mean. All the times Iv tried to neglect the family get angry when you try teach me right from wrong wot I mean to say is I only realised that you were trying to help when I joined the army and without YOUR help I would have never had the BALLS, the GRIT and the damn right determination to crack on and do it. If I could have a wish in life it would to be able to say Iv gone and done things many would never try to do. And going to Afghan has fulfilled my dream ie my goal. Yes I am young wich as a parent must brake you heart but you must all somehow find the strength that I found to do something no matter how big the challenge. As Im writing this letter I can see you all crying and mornin my death but if I could have one wish in an "after life" it would be to stop your crying and continueing your dreams (as I did) because if I were watching only that would brake my heart. So dry your tears and put on a brave face for the rest of your friends and family who need you.
I want each and everyone of you to forfill a dream and at the end of it look at what you have done (completed) and feel the accomplishment and achievement I did only then will you understand how I felt when I passed away.
[To his brothers:] You are both amazing men and will continue to be throughout your lives you both deserve to be happy and fofill all of your dreams.
Dad – my idol, my friend, my best friend, my teacher, my coach, everything I ever succeeded in my life I owe to you and maybe a little bit of me! You are a great man and the perfect role model and the past two years of being in the army I noticed that and me and you have been on the best level we have ever been. I thank you for nothing because I no all you have given to me is not there to be thanked for its there because you did it cause you love me and that is my most proudest thing I could ever say.
Mum, where do I start with you!! For a start your perfect, your smell, your hugs, the way your life was dedicated to us boys and especially the way you cared each and every step us boys took. I love you, you were the reason I made it as far as I did you were the reason I was loved more than any child I no and that made me feel special.
Your all such great individuals and I hope somehow this letter will help you get through this shit time!! Just remember do NOT mourn my death as hard as this will seem, celebrate a great life that has had its ups and downs. I love you all more than you would ever no and in your own individual ways helped me get through it all. I wish you all the best with your dreams.
Remember chin up head down. With love Cyrus xxxx
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Posted by: teel on Jul 21, 2009 2:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lifeguards don't bitch about getting wet do they?
Like George Carlin said about the contractor who got decapitated in Iraq. "Hey Jack, you don't want to get you head chopped off, stay the fuck in Oklahoma. Ain't nobody getting his head cut off there."
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» RE: Who cares
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» Dalai Lama is full of SHIT
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» RE: Who cares
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: JudoChopJosh
» RE: The contractors go there, but to serve who?
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Not everybody has the luxury of "choice"
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Not everybody has the luxury of "choice"
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Who cares
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» Cry me a river
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» RE: Who cares
Posted by: dmb8762
» what's WRONG with you? a serving military person
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: pfgetty on Jul 21, 2009 2:48 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was lies that got us in there. The lies of 9/11. The attacks were blamed on people living and training in Afghanistan, and a regime that allowed them to organize there.
We went in to get them, and to get their leader, bin Laden.
What a bag of crap. First of all, the Taliban offerred to capture bin Laden and send him to a third country. That hit the news and then quickly was forever forgotten.
But the biggest lie was that 9/11 happened because of the 19 hijackers under bin Laden. It is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory. The evidence is overwhelming that 9/11 was an inside job.
But I think you know this, Cyrus. I think you'd like the real story of 9/11 to be told. But you can't tell it to us. No journalists are allowed to tell of the lies of 9/11. Their careers will be ruined, or worse. A good journalist that writes about our wars could not possibly have been fooled by the lies of 9/11.
These soldiers die because our media will not present the obvious, glaring truths. The contradictions and implausibilities and impossibilities of the official story of 9/11 are ignored, and so we are left with a fairytale and one that kills. How many US soldiers and how many innocent Afghanis will die before one day Americans will know the truth.
The Vietnam era had one real hero that finally saved the lies of millions: Daniel Ellsberg.
Is there no one Daniel Ellsberg in our country?
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» Cyrus Thatcher Can't Expose The Lies About 9/11
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Cyrus Thatcher Can't Expose The Lies About 9/11
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: You blew it, pfgetty.
Posted by: ZPaul
» So, PFGoober, now you're exploiting the death of our soldiers in service to your monomania?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: So, PFGoober, now you're exploiting the death of our soldiers in service to your monomania?
Posted by: flaplather
» What was that, flapdoodle?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: So, PFGoober, now you're exploiting the death of our soldiers in service to your monomania?
Posted by: mkdelta69
» Yo PF! Would you like to see a photo of Steven Jones working with neo-Nazi Christopher Bollyn?
Posted by: GuitarBill
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Posted by: cordas on Jul 21, 2009 3:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget the 9/11 bullshit, its just a distraction. What is happening now in Afghanistan is a tragedy, its a tragedy for all involved regardless of how they ended up in those hills and mountains.
Personally I am sick to death of our British politicians and the constant noise they generate on the issue, whilst ignoring the calls from our military for more resources and the constant calls from our society at large to know what on earth we are actually doing in Afghanistan, and how we are going to achieve those goals.
These letters show put more than a face to the name of a recently killed soldier they open a window into his soul and his obvious love for his family back home.
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» 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: weathered
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
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» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: Centavo
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: mkdelta69
» How many were killed/maimed by Rifleman Cyrus?
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: How many were killed/maimed by Rifleman Cyrus?
Posted by: cordas
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Posted by: colinsyme on Jul 21, 2009 4:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well this is the reality for Afghanis they have been invaded, thousands of civilians killed or badly wounded, former politics and loyalties are put aside and they all have one priority which is to fight the invaders. A rag-tag army using weapons that have seen better days and like the Boere nation 100 years ago when they fought the redcoats, they have superiority on the battlefield because they pick and chose when to attack, they have the hearts and minds of the locals thats where they get support and shelter when they need it. Not all these fighters are extremists they are ordinary tribesmen defending their land.
We have no chance of winning this war by military means alone and the sooner we accept this the better. Unless we do as the British did in South Africa and that is to round up all the women and chilren,put them in concentration camps then proceed to destroy all agricultural land we might as well call it a day and leave Afghanistan.
Young brave, working class men like rifleman Thatcher are the cannon fodder that governments use when they go to war and their graves a reminder of our failure to understand that when it comes down to the line people of different politics and views will defend their country no matter what. We found this in South Africa, India, Kenya and other conflicts where we sought to impose our will over others.
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Posted by: mtbarbee on Jul 21, 2009 5:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But back to Cyrus. God bless him and his family. These men VOLUNTEER to go into harms way and I'm sure in the middle of a firefight maybe some are thinking "did I make a mistake coming here" but when they come out on the other side of it maybe they wouldn't trade these experiences for nothing in the world.
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» RE: who cares? I care.
Posted by: lively56
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 21, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I care about these men, but not the cause.
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: I care about these men, but not the cause.
Posted by: cordas
» History is written by the winners.
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» RE: History is written by the winners.
Posted by: cordas
» RE: I care about these men, but not the cause.
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Posted by: thekidde on Jul 21, 2009 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Marine General Smedley Butler rightly said, "War is a racket".
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: PJAW on Jul 21, 2009 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's part of the pageantry of human existence and it's been so for as long as we've been keeping a history of our kind. Every generation is called upon to sacrifice some of its members to enhance the meaning of life for those who survive. Joining the military is a statement that you are willing to be one of those sacrificed and war is the ceremonial event at which the sacrifice is made. It's structured in a way to introduce randomness into the process, though there are pathways that lead individuals to points of higher risk, which allegedly lead to higher reward for those who make it through. You get more creds for dodging bullets, for example, than you do for loading bombs onto planes.
War has always been bullshit, the hope is that we're getting closer to understanding that before engaging in it. I'm not yet convinced. These most recent ventures into Afghanistan and Iraq are in no way indicative that we're making progress.
But, perhaps Bush will end up having done more to end war than many before him by making it so totally obvious what a scam it is and by openly abandoning the soldiers in all but the most superficial ways. How ironic would that be?
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Posted by: mtatasmith on Jul 21, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stellabloo on Jul 21, 2009 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is there such a thing as a "righteous" war? Have we evolved since the Dark Ages and the Crusades? Evidently not. This thought was echoed in WWI - do kids even read Dulce et Decorum est in high school English anymore? - and certainly with Schlachthaus Fuenf, The Children's Crusade. And those were the "righteous" wars. If you know your history you see much foot-dragging and pork-barrelling going on prior to WWII and if you poke around in the Bushie familiy tree, you find some stunning examples of greed and avarice hard at work.
More than 30 years after the public woke up and realized they were being screwed over by the industrial-military complex in Vietman, the old and painful lessons have been forgotten and we've gone right back to telling the kids to "be all that you can be!". So here in our little plastic bubble, we're being asked to unplug our "vampire appliances" to stave off global warming - as if that could offset the mushroom cloud of contrails, gas flares and artillery fire that is the Middle East right now.
But how do you argue with the War on Terror? "War", so martial. "Terror", so terrifying! Those "terrorists", they are dark and swarthy - we must destroy them! "American lives!" "Innocent babies!" Welcome to the machine, people. The future is already on us.
I remember the draft dodgers. In hindsight they were only children too, but children who believed in a simpler way of life, close to the land. They played music and grew vegetables. They believed that happiness could be found in a piece of land and a few chickens. It was a beautiful dream and many woke up and smelled the coffee and went to live the beautiful dream.
I can only pray that we all start smelling the coffee soon. Or, as in the old protest slogan, "What if there was a war and nobody came?"
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» RE: The Children's Crusade
Posted by: floridahank
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Posted by: mattylou on Jul 21, 2009 9:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xmvince on Jul 21, 2009 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why must we use war to bring peace
Why must we use such young people who have such long lives ahead of them
Why must we fight for freedom in other countries when we don't even have freedom in our own
This shit is upsetting
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» RE: Wow
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: weaverofcloth on Jul 21, 2009 11:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the bozos out there not knowing what to do with themselves after "graduating": Be careful and think twice before you go up this road ! You may not come back. Or you'll come back a wreck. And if you do come back, you won't come back a hero. Realize that. Maybe a few drooling codgers will try to get you into the VFW. But most won't care or worse they will see you as baby-burner, not someone to bring over for dinner. The suffering you go to inflict will stay with you the rest of your life !
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» Your post is
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Your post is
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: messedup on Jul 21, 2009 2:41 PM
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» RE: Stay in school next time young grasshopper
Posted by: mattylou
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Posted by: richholland on Jul 22, 2009 3:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You should be aware that OBAMA will;
- legalise HEMP
-promote Veganisme(remember this german guy; vegaterian, no smoker, loved his mother =A.Schicklgruber)
If we are all weedsmoking and dress in hemp and no longer visit McDonald we donot NEED health care anymore.
And then no longer pay soldiers DRAFT, to make peace in the world USA needs all boys and girls from 18 year should serve democrazy and freedom and environmentprotection as FREEDOMFIGHTERS..
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Posted by: bonapartist on Jul 22, 2009 12:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The imperialist propaganda succeded in planting enough double talk to sap any real antiwar effort in US, and to lesser extent in UK.
#1 Support the troops but oppose the war.
Crock and bull, what do you think those soldiers are doing in the war you oppose? Either you are for the war or against it and this is nothing bu fence sitting.
#2 It is not the soldier's fault.
Garbage continued, for those in the army before Iraq invasion - maybe. For those that volunteered afterwards they knew full well what they volunteered for.
#3 Some of them had no choice but to join the army to escape poverty.
I think I have a tear in my eye for this line. Many people accross the world are poor, even destitute and homeless but they don't volunteer to kill others to escape that poverty. Question of morality probably.
And so it goes, drag one face from the crowd and try to use it to humanize the inhumane.
Boo, bloody, hoo. Let us all shed tears for a colonial volunteer that got killed by natives. Best of all it is a British soldier, I presume in the same vein one should feel deeply sorry for his ideological ancestors who got killed by Boers, Zulus, Sudanese etc while trying to extend the imperial rule over them. After all, they all had families somwhere.
I wonder what local Afghanis thought of the late rifleman and I'll venture it was probably nothing flattering.
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» RE: No wonder antiwar movement is weak
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jul 23, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if only Americans WOULD spend more time considering what the impacts of their behaviour does to:
non-American Afghanistan-serving NATO members
to other peace activists
& non-American foreign citizens...
perhaps we'd get somewhere.
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Posted by: cori on Jul 24, 2009 1:52 PM
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Posted by: Paxmana1 on Jul 24, 2009 1:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
45 years ago we British were still running the 2 years compulsory military service game .. I was conscripted .. but 2 years on 26 shillings a week did not appeal .. so I signed on for 9 years with the colors and 13 years on the reserve.
Well what a mugs game that was .. I was on the firing party honor guard, for three of my comrades .. underpaid security guards for big oil and its shareholders.
Oh for sure they larded it all up with the flags and the drums and how we were serving to preserve the tyranny of the aristocracy and the self made men. Up and at em Men .. Queen and country ..teach those fucking wogs a lesson.
Well Cyrus at last you know the truth .. so hows about you and I singing it together .. I will call the beer to whet the whistle.
=====================================
The Green Fields of France
by Eric Bogle.
Well, how do you do, Private William McBride,
Do you mind if I sit down here by your graveside?
And rest for awhile in the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day, and I'm nearly done.
And I see by your gravestone you were only 19
When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916,
Well, I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean Or, Willie McBride, was it slow and obscene?
Did they Beat the drum slowly, did the play the pipes lowly?
Did the rifles fir o'er you as they lowered you down?
Did the bugles sound The Last Post in chorus?
Did the pipes play the Flowers of the Forest?
And did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind
In some loyal heart is your memory enshrined?
And, though you died back in 1916,
To that loyal heart are you forever 19?
Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Forever enshrined behind some glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame?
The sun's shining down on these green fields of France;
The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow;
No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard that's still No Man's Land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.
And I can't help but wonder, now, Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you "The Cause?"
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.
© Eric Bogle
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Posted by: AlteredStates on Jul 24, 2009 4:09 PM
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After reading through all the miss-spelled words and bad grammar I thought, "this guy should have stayed in school".
Getting back to his mom and dad; I wonder, do you still think you did a good job in bringing your dead son up? Did you open his casket to give him one last "good-bye"? If so, how did he look all blasted and burned to shit and all that? That's what happens when you die in war. Did you explain that to him as you were "bring him up"? Were you thinking of that when you were changing his diapers when he was a baby? Or maybe you thought "heroes" are made of "sugar and spice and everything nice". Well, dream on mom and dad; your son is dead; never to be heard from again. He will never marry, never have children or grand children, and never live to enjoy the life that the people who started this war enjoy as they laugh all the way to the bank. I guess you didn't figure on all that.
And, so it goes with every death in war. The next time one of your other sons say they "dreamed of war" or of fighting for freedom, sit them down and tell them the truth. And, the truth is, you fucked up as a mother and as a human being. Can you handle that? Probably not, and that is why, they too, will probably be fighting for freedom in a land that has never known freedom...and never will.
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Posted by: teel on Jul 21, 2009 2:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lifeguards don't bitch about getting wet do they?
Like George Carlin said about the contractor who got decapitated in Iraq. "Hey Jack, you don't want to get you head chopped off, stay the fuck in Oklahoma. Ain't nobody getting his head cut off there."
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» RE: Who cares
Posted by: surfreality
» Dalai Lama is full of SHIT
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: JudoChopJosh
» RE: The contractors go there, but to serve who?
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Not everybody has the luxury of "choice"
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Not everybody has the luxury of "choice"
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Cry me a river
Posted by: bonapartist
» RE: Who cares
Posted by: dmb8762
» what's WRONG with you? a serving military person
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: pfgetty on Jul 21, 2009 2:48 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was lies that got us in there. The lies of 9/11. The attacks were blamed on people living and training in Afghanistan, and a regime that allowed them to organize there.
We went in to get them, and to get their leader, bin Laden.
What a bag of crap. First of all, the Taliban offerred to capture bin Laden and send him to a third country. That hit the news and then quickly was forever forgotten.
But the biggest lie was that 9/11 happened because of the 19 hijackers under bin Laden. It is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory. The evidence is overwhelming that 9/11 was an inside job.
But I think you know this, Cyrus. I think you'd like the real story of 9/11 to be told. But you can't tell it to us. No journalists are allowed to tell of the lies of 9/11. Their careers will be ruined, or worse. A good journalist that writes about our wars could not possibly have been fooled by the lies of 9/11.
These soldiers die because our media will not present the obvious, glaring truths. The contradictions and implausibilities and impossibilities of the official story of 9/11 are ignored, and so we are left with a fairytale and one that kills. How many US soldiers and how many innocent Afghanis will die before one day Americans will know the truth.
The Vietnam era had one real hero that finally saved the lies of millions: Daniel Ellsberg.
Is there no one Daniel Ellsberg in our country?
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» Cyrus Thatcher Can't Expose The Lies About 9/11
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Cyrus Thatcher Can't Expose The Lies About 9/11
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: You blew it, pfgetty.
Posted by: ZPaul
» So, PFGoober, now you're exploiting the death of our soldiers in service to your monomania?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: So, PFGoober, now you're exploiting the death of our soldiers in service to your monomania?
Posted by: flaplather
» What was that, flapdoodle?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: So, PFGoober, now you're exploiting the death of our soldiers in service to your monomania?
Posted by: mkdelta69
» Yo PF! Would you like to see a photo of Steven Jones working with neo-Nazi Christopher Bollyn?
Posted by: GuitarBill
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Posted by: cordas on Jul 21, 2009 3:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget the 9/11 bullshit, its just a distraction. What is happening now in Afghanistan is a tragedy, its a tragedy for all involved regardless of how they ended up in those hills and mountains.
Personally I am sick to death of our British politicians and the constant noise they generate on the issue, whilst ignoring the calls from our military for more resources and the constant calls from our society at large to know what on earth we are actually doing in Afghanistan, and how we are going to achieve those goals.
These letters show put more than a face to the name of a recently killed soldier they open a window into his soul and his obvious love for his family back home.
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» 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: weathered
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: flaplather
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: Centavo
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: 9/11 bullshit?
Posted by: mkdelta69
» How many were killed/maimed by Rifleman Cyrus?
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: How many were killed/maimed by Rifleman Cyrus?
Posted by: cordas
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Posted by: colinsyme on Jul 21, 2009 4:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well this is the reality for Afghanis they have been invaded, thousands of civilians killed or badly wounded, former politics and loyalties are put aside and they all have one priority which is to fight the invaders. A rag-tag army using weapons that have seen better days and like the Boere nation 100 years ago when they fought the redcoats, they have superiority on the battlefield because they pick and chose when to attack, they have the hearts and minds of the locals thats where they get support and shelter when they need it. Not all these fighters are extremists they are ordinary tribesmen defending their land.
We have no chance of winning this war by military means alone and the sooner we accept this the better. Unless we do as the British did in South Africa and that is to round up all the women and chilren,put them in concentration camps then proceed to destroy all agricultural land we might as well call it a day and leave Afghanistan.
Young brave, working class men like rifleman Thatcher are the cannon fodder that governments use when they go to war and their graves a reminder of our failure to understand that when it comes down to the line people of different politics and views will defend their country no matter what. We found this in South Africa, India, Kenya and other conflicts where we sought to impose our will over others.
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Posted by: mtbarbee on Jul 21, 2009 5:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But back to Cyrus. God bless him and his family. These men VOLUNTEER to go into harms way and I'm sure in the middle of a firefight maybe some are thinking "did I make a mistake coming here" but when they come out on the other side of it maybe they wouldn't trade these experiences for nothing in the world.
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» RE: who cares? I care.
Posted by: lively56
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 21, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I care about these men, but not the cause.
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: I care about these men, but not the cause.
Posted by: cordas
» History is written by the winners.
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: History is written by the winners.
Posted by: cordas
» RE: I care about these men, but not the cause.
Posted by: msteryis
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Posted by: thekidde on Jul 21, 2009 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Marine General Smedley Butler rightly said, "War is a racket".
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: PJAW on Jul 21, 2009 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's part of the pageantry of human existence and it's been so for as long as we've been keeping a history of our kind. Every generation is called upon to sacrifice some of its members to enhance the meaning of life for those who survive. Joining the military is a statement that you are willing to be one of those sacrificed and war is the ceremonial event at which the sacrifice is made. It's structured in a way to introduce randomness into the process, though there are pathways that lead individuals to points of higher risk, which allegedly lead to higher reward for those who make it through. You get more creds for dodging bullets, for example, than you do for loading bombs onto planes.
War has always been bullshit, the hope is that we're getting closer to understanding that before engaging in it. I'm not yet convinced. These most recent ventures into Afghanistan and Iraq are in no way indicative that we're making progress.
But, perhaps Bush will end up having done more to end war than many before him by making it so totally obvious what a scam it is and by openly abandoning the soldiers in all but the most superficial ways. How ironic would that be?
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Posted by: mtatasmith on Jul 21, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stellabloo on Jul 21, 2009 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is there such a thing as a "righteous" war? Have we evolved since the Dark Ages and the Crusades? Evidently not. This thought was echoed in WWI - do kids even read Dulce et Decorum est in high school English anymore? - and certainly with Schlachthaus Fuenf, The Children's Crusade. And those were the "righteous" wars. If you know your history you see much foot-dragging and pork-barrelling going on prior to WWII and if you poke around in the Bushie familiy tree, you find some stunning examples of greed and avarice hard at work.
More than 30 years after the public woke up and realized they were being screwed over by the industrial-military complex in Vietman, the old and painful lessons have been forgotten and we've gone right back to telling the kids to "be all that you can be!". So here in our little plastic bubble, we're being asked to unplug our "vampire appliances" to stave off global warming - as if that could offset the mushroom cloud of contrails, gas flares and artillery fire that is the Middle East right now.
But how do you argue with the War on Terror? "War", so martial. "Terror", so terrifying! Those "terrorists", they are dark and swarthy - we must destroy them! "American lives!" "Innocent babies!" Welcome to the machine, people. The future is already on us.
I remember the draft dodgers. In hindsight they were only children too, but children who believed in a simpler way of life, close to the land. They played music and grew vegetables. They believed that happiness could be found in a piece of land and a few chickens. It was a beautiful dream and many woke up and smelled the coffee and went to live the beautiful dream.
I can only pray that we all start smelling the coffee soon. Or, as in the old protest slogan, "What if there was a war and nobody came?"
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» RE: The Children's Crusade
Posted by: floridahank
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Posted by: mattylou on Jul 21, 2009 9:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xmvince on Jul 21, 2009 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why must we use war to bring peace
Why must we use such young people who have such long lives ahead of them
Why must we fight for freedom in other countries when we don't even have freedom in our own
This shit is upsetting
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» RE: Wow
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: weaverofcloth on Jul 21, 2009 11:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the bozos out there not knowing what to do with themselves after "graduating": Be careful and think twice before you go up this road ! You may not come back. Or you'll come back a wreck. And if you do come back, you won't come back a hero. Realize that. Maybe a few drooling codgers will try to get you into the VFW. But most won't care or worse they will see you as baby-burner, not someone to bring over for dinner. The suffering you go to inflict will stay with you the rest of your life !
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» Your post is
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Your post is
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: messedup on Jul 21, 2009 2:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Stay in school next time young grasshopper
Posted by: mattylou
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Posted by: richholland on Jul 22, 2009 3:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You should be aware that OBAMA will;
- legalise HEMP
-promote Veganisme(remember this german guy; vegaterian, no smoker, loved his mother =A.Schicklgruber)
If we are all weedsmoking and dress in hemp and no longer visit McDonald we donot NEED health care anymore.
And then no longer pay soldiers DRAFT, to make peace in the world USA needs all boys and girls from 18 year should serve democrazy and freedom and environmentprotection as FREEDOMFIGHTERS..
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Posted by: bonapartist on Jul 22, 2009 12:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The imperialist propaganda succeded in planting enough double talk to sap any real antiwar effort in US, and to lesser extent in UK.
#1 Support the troops but oppose the war.
Crock and bull, what do you think those soldiers are doing in the war you oppose? Either you are for the war or against it and this is nothing bu fence sitting.
#2 It is not the soldier's fault.
Garbage continued, for those in the army before Iraq invasion - maybe. For those that volunteered afterwards they knew full well what they volunteered for.
#3 Some of them had no choice but to join the army to escape poverty.
I think I have a tear in my eye for this line. Many people accross the world are poor, even destitute and homeless but they don't volunteer to kill others to escape that poverty. Question of morality probably.
And so it goes, drag one face from the crowd and try to use it to humanize the inhumane.
Boo, bloody, hoo. Let us all shed tears for a colonial volunteer that got killed by natives. Best of all it is a British soldier, I presume in the same vein one should feel deeply sorry for his ideological ancestors who got killed by Boers, Zulus, Sudanese etc while trying to extend the imperial rule over them. After all, they all had families somwhere.
I wonder what local Afghanis thought of the late rifleman and I'll venture it was probably nothing flattering.
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» RE: No wonder antiwar movement is weak
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jul 23, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if only Americans WOULD spend more time considering what the impacts of their behaviour does to:
non-American Afghanistan-serving NATO members
to other peace activists
& non-American foreign citizens...
perhaps we'd get somewhere.
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Posted by: cori on Jul 24, 2009 1:52 PM
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Posted by: Paxmana1 on Jul 24, 2009 1:52 PM
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45 years ago we British were still running the 2 years compulsory military service game .. I was conscripted .. but 2 years on 26 shillings a week did not appeal .. so I signed on for 9 years with the colors and 13 years on the reserve.
Well what a mugs game that was .. I was on the firing party honor guard, for three of my comrades .. underpaid security guards for big oil and its shareholders.
Oh for sure they larded it all up with the flags and the drums and how we were serving to preserve the tyranny of the aristocracy and the self made men. Up and at em Men .. Queen and country ..teach those fucking wogs a lesson.
Well Cyrus at last you know the truth .. so hows about you and I singing it together .. I will call the beer to whet the whistle.
=====================================
The Green Fields of France
by Eric Bogle.
Well, how do you do, Private William McBride,
Do you mind if I sit down here by your graveside?
And rest for awhile in the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day, and I'm nearly done.
And I see by your gravestone you were only 19
When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916,
Well, I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean Or, Willie McBride, was it slow and obscene?
Did they Beat the drum slowly, did the play the pipes lowly?
Did the rifles fir o'er you as they lowered you down?
Did the bugles sound The Last Post in chorus?
Did the pipes play the Flowers of the Forest?
And did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind
In some loyal heart is your memory enshrined?
And, though you died back in 1916,
To that loyal heart are you forever 19?
Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Forever enshrined behind some glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame?
The sun's shining down on these green fields of France;
The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow;
No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard that's still No Man's Land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.
And I can't help but wonder, now, Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you "The Cause?"
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.
© Eric Bogle
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Posted by: AlteredStates on Jul 24, 2009 4:09 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading through all the miss-spelled words and bad grammar I thought, "this guy should have stayed in school".
Getting back to his mom and dad; I wonder, do you still think you did a good job in bringing your dead son up? Did you open his casket to give him one last "good-bye"? If so, how did he look all blasted and burned to shit and all that? That's what happens when you die in war. Did you explain that to him as you were "bring him up"? Were you thinking of that when you were changing his diapers when he was a baby? Or maybe you thought "heroes" are made of "sugar and spice and everything nice". Well, dream on mom and dad; your son is dead; never to be heard from again. He will never marry, never have children or grand children, and never live to enjoy the life that the people who started this war enjoy as they laugh all the way to the bank. I guess you didn't figure on all that.
And, so it goes with every death in war. The next time one of your other sons say they "dreamed of war" or of fighting for freedom, sit them down and tell them the truth. And, the truth is, you fucked up as a mother and as a human being. Can you handle that? Probably not, and that is why, they too, will probably be fighting for freedom in a land that has never known freedom...and never will.
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