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"I Hate Arabs More Than Anybody": Desperate Army Recruits Neo-Nazis

By Matt Kennard, Investigative Fund at The Nation Institute. Posted June 17, 2009.


Why the U.S. military is ignoring its own regulations and permitting white supremacists to join.
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On a muggy Florida evening in 2008, I meet Iraq War veteran Forrest Fogarty in the Winghouse, a little bar-restaurant on the outskirts of Tampa, his favorite hangout. He told me on the phone I would recognize him by his skinhead. Sure enough, when I spot a white guy at a table by the door with a shaved head, white tank top and bulging muscles, I know it can only be him.

Over a plate of chicken wings, he tells me about his path into the white-power movement. "I was 14 when I decided I wanted to be a Nazi," he says. At his first high school, near Los Angeles, he was bullied by black and Latino kids. That's when he first heard Skrewdriver, a band he calls "the godfather of the white power movement." "I became obsessed," he says. He had an image from one of Skrewdriver's album covers -- a Viking carrying a staff, an icon among white nationalists -- tattooed on his left forearm. Soon after he had a Celtic cross, an Irish symbol appropriated by neo-Nazis, emblazoned on his stomach.

At 15, Fogarty moved with his dad to Tampa, where he started picking fights with groups of black kids at his new high school. "On the first day, this bunch of niggers, they thought I was a racist, so they asked, 'Are you in the KKK?'" he tells me. "I said, 'Yeah,' and it was on." Soon enough, he was expelled.

For the next six years, Fogarty flitted from landscaping job to construction job, neither of which he'd ever wanted to do. "I was just drinking and fighting," he says. He started his own Nazi rock group, Attack, and made friends in the National Alliance, at the time the biggest neo-Nazi group in the country. It has called for a "a long-term eugenics program involving at least the entire populations of Europe and America."

But the military ran in Fogarty's family. His grandfather had served during World War II, Korea and Vietnam, and his dad had been a Marine in Vietnam. At 22, Fogarty resolved to follow in their footsteps. "I wanted to serve my country," he says.

Army regulations prohibit soldiers from participating in racist groups, and recruiters are instructed to keep an eye out for suspicious tattoos. Before signing on the dotted line, enlistees are required to explain any tattoos. At a Tampa recruitment office, though, Fogarty sailed right through the signup process. "They just told me to write an explanation of each tattoo, and I made up some stuff, and that was that," he says. Soon he was posted to Fort Stewart in Georgia, where he became part of the 3rd Infantry Division.

Fogarty's ex-girlfriend, intent on destroying his new military career, sent a dossier of photographs to Fort Stewart. The photos showed Fogarty attending white supremacist rallies and performing with his band, Attack. "They hauled me before some sort of committee and showed me the pictures," Fogarty says. "I just denied them and said my girlfriend was a spiteful bitch." He adds: "They knew what I was about. But they let it go because I'm a great soldier."

In 2003, Fogarty was sent to Iraq. For two years he served in the military police, escorting officers, including generals, around the hostile country. He says he was granted top-secret clearance and access to battle plans. Fogarty speaks with regret that he "never had any kill counts." But he says his time in Iraq increased his racist resolve.

"I hate Arabs more than anybody, for the simple fact I've served over there and seen how they live," he tells me. "They're just a backward people. Them and the Jews are just disgusting people as far as I'm concerned. Their customs, everything to do with the Middle East, is just repugnant to me."

Because of his tattoos and his racist comments, most of his buddies and his commanding officers were aware of his Nazism. "They all knew in my unit," he says. "They would always kid around and say, 'Hey, you're that skinhead!'" But no one sounded an alarm to higher-ups. "I would volunteer for all the hardest missions, and they were like, 'Let Fogarty go.' They didn't want to get rid of me."

Fogarty left the Army in 2005 with an honorable discharge. He says he was asked to reenlist. He declined. He was sick of the system.

Since the launch of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the U.S. military has struggled to recruit and reenlist troops. As the conflicts have dragged on, the military has loosened regulations, issuing "moral waivers" in many cases, allowing even those with criminal records to join up. Veterans suffering post-traumatic stress disorder have been ordered back to the Middle East for second and third tours of duty.


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There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: rainingwolf on Jun 17, 2009 2:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is absolutely terrifying. Talk about terrorist activity - we should not be fearing outsiders as much as our own military which supposedly exists for our protection. I can't believe I am the only commenter on this article. Silence allows things like this to exist. Begin talking, writing, shouting if need be. And even in these tough times, think about a contribution to Morris Dee's organization. He has done more to fight white supremacy than anyone. This is outrageous.

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» RE: Right on! Posted by: lightwing1
Congratulations America!
Posted by: Nodarse on Jun 17, 2009 2:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess who's going to be patrolling your neighborhood if martial law is declared?

Do you believe the repeal of "posse comitatus" (the pesky law that prohibited soldiers from being used as cops) is still a good idea?

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Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 17, 2009 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The muslim extremist have given the entire race of Arabs a bad rap.

But one looks at what is going on in Europe for example, especially Sweden, where muslims are turning that country into an extremist hell and one can see how world opinion of Arabs isn't that good. Germany and Japan had similar problems after WW2!

Arabs need to stand up and denounce the extremist groups instead of being silent and the world opinion would change.

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» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: masthead
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: masthead
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: Bad Rap Posted by: progressive-life
So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 17, 2009 2:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Obama needs to step-up & put an end to all this lunacy before it's too late!

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Christians sadists and Nazis--O no!
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 17, 2009 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Up until now, I've been worrying about all the fundamentalists who seem bent on taking over the military.

The May issue of Harper’s Magazine has an article called “Jesus Killed Mohammed: The Crusade for a Christian Military,” and there are a couple of books coming out on the subject. This all comes from a piece on Democracy Now called “The Crusade for a Christian Military”: Are US Forces Trying to Convert Afghans to Christianity?"

The neo-nazis fit right in to the new military mix. The original Nazis fancied themselves to be true Christians. Suddenly, the idea of a draft doesn't sound so bad.*

*Just kidding. I do not want anyone getting drafted.


My new YouTube video: Rupert Murdoch in Pain

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Good job, army.
Posted by: colinmeister on Jun 17, 2009 3:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now America doesn't just have Nazi nut jobs, it has Nazi nut jobs with military training.

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What is a Soldier?
Posted by: birdman1943 on Jun 17, 2009 4:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine not wanting strong individuals to not be soldiers? When I was in the U.S. Army Basic training taught you to be a "Killer!" The DI said whatta wanna be to us -response "A Killer!" They would also ask wat is your mission-"To Kill!" Hmm Imagine that! A number of soldiers in our various wars could not pull the trigger. Saw this in Vietnam while was there. Just like the Mafia you need "contract killers" or "hitmen!" Since this is now an all volunteer force you might as well go out for the "best!" They (Neo-Nazi's and others) have been immersed in violence and will not hestiate to do a "soldier's job!" Just like in society we need sanitation workers to take out the garbage. In this case we need to have killers to also take down the garbage. For one I say let's actively recruit what America needs-killing machines.......

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» RE: "Taking out the garbage..." Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: birdbrain1943 Posted by: sasquuatch55
» "This is the army, Mr. Jones!" Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: What is a Soldier? Posted by: Quannah
» What a toughie Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: What a toughie Posted by: Quannah
» RE: What is a Soldier? Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: What is a Soldier? Posted by: robert.noll
This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: PJAW on Jun 17, 2009 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just what kind of people do you expect to participate in illegal, immoral wars of aggression? What's surprising is the fact that no one has bothered to assess the "mission" based on who is willing to participate.

Now that the lies behind the wars are becoming more widely understood, decent young people are refusing to enlist. If the wars were just, Americans would step forward and join the effort without having to be bribed and coerced and there would be no need to fill the ranks with people of questionable motives.

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» Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old? Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Who do you think you are Posted by: outsideagitator
Why the U.S. military is ignoring its own regulations and permitting white supremacists to join.
Posted by: masthead on Jun 17, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for the same reason this administration, like the last, is gearing up for future wars.

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Don't know why anybody is surprised
Posted by: sausage on Jun 17, 2009 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read this article at Buzzflash.com last week.

The U.S. military is a cauldron of racial identity gangs and criminal organizations like any prison

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» What are you talking about? Posted by: sausage
Gays in the military, tattoos in the military-civil liberties
Posted by: plantland on Jun 17, 2009 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both are constitutional.

Hate SPEECH seems to be used in training.

Let's hope a line is drawn at ACTIONS against fellow soldiers.

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We have met the enemy & it is US!
Posted by: R.W. on Jun 17, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NY Times report last month:
"Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=1

Photos show boys & girls, youngest just 14(!) who look like terrorists themselves! I thought they were kids "drafted" by a terrorist group!

Look too at the scary comments ADULTS make:“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County."

Fol is 'cut-off' version since site limits comments to 4,000chars.

By JENNIFER STEINHAUER-May 13, 2009

IMPERIAL, CA — 10 minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

In a training exercise run by Border Patrol agents, Explorer scouts from Visalia, Calif., prepare to storm a “hijacked” bus.

Imperial County relies on the local criminal justice system.

The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.

It is all quite a step up from the square knot.

The Explorers program, a co-ed affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence — an intense ratcheting up of one of the group’s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters.

“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, a sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County, whose life clock, he says, is set around the Explorers events he helps run. “It fits right in with the honor and bravery of the Boy Scouts.”

The training, which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting, can involve chasing down illegal border crossers as well as more dangerous situations that include facing down terrorists and taking out “active shooters,” like those who bring gunfire and death to college campuses. In a simulation here of a raid on a marijuana field, several Explorers were instructed on how to quiet an obstreperous lookout.

“Put him on his face and put a knee in his back,” a Border Patrol agent explained. “I guarantee that he’ll shut up.”

One participant, Felix Arce, 16, said he liked “the discipline of the program,” which was something he said his life was lacking. “I want to be a lawyer, and this teaches you about how crimes are committed,” he said.

Cathy Noriega, also 16, said she was attracted by the guns. The group uses compressed-air guns — known as airsoft guns, which fire tiny plastic pellets — in the training exercises, and sometimes they shoot real guns on a closed range.

“I like shooting them,” Cathy said. “I like the sound they make. It gets me excited.”

If there are critics of the content or purpose of the law enforcement training, they have not made themselves known to the Explorers’ national organization in Irving, Tex., or to the volunteers here on the ground, national officials and local leaders said. That said, the Explorers have faced problems over the years. There have been numerous cases over the last three decades in which police officers supervising Explorers have been charged, in civil and criminal cases, with sexually abusing them.

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For all those who aren't, pray for whitness
Posted by: sirios on Jun 17, 2009 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a marriage made in heaven. The facade comes down and the military is finally revealed for what it is, a government sanctioned killing machine. Forget about joining up for the traditional reasons, ie, patriotism ,god, protection of the innocent, etc. Now all natural born killers can come out of the closet and legally wail away on anybody who doesn't agree with the superiority of the arian race. Forget about ranting on Alternet in hopes of achieving a social consensus for our views, buy a 12 gauge and lock your doors.

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Torture And Abuse = Hate Crimes
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No surprise.
Look at what happened at Abu Ghraib. Look at what happens still at Guantanamo and at US "black sites". The US military -- and the US government and the CIA too -- aren't exactly populated with people who love Arabs!

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DogLeg
Posted by: 6woolseyjoyce2 on Jun 17, 2009 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this country insists on waging two illegal combative occupations on sovereign territory, maiming and murdering indigenous people for corporate profit while pathologically lying about it to the entire species, should this mutation surprise us? Given the previous decades, culminating with our favorite despot (may his genetic material rot in the womb), our predilection, evidently, to deny life to our own citizens, do we dare take our covers from our eyes?

In Jesus's name Blackwater sets legal precedents to act outside the law while being paid handsome taxpayer money to fight corporate wars of, and for, profit.

We cheer rather than hang the corrupt perpetrators. While every country on earth beyond our borders the people say emphatically, "NO!" over and over to stop this obscene beast from destroying them. If only these 'brave Americans' were so united...

I don't want to wake up. I don't have that many years left in me...yet I cannot sleep.

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» RE: DogLeg Posted by: Cybershaman
What Happened To All Those Lost Military Weapons?
Posted by: Ross Wolf on Jun 17, 2009 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If leaders of extremist organizations are recruiting U.S. soldiers because of their combat fighting skills, it would appear problematic the same solders might steal military weapons like grenades for the organizations that recruited them. Considering the large number of weapons the U.S. Military can’t account for each year, lost at home and abroad, it is scary to think about how many missing weapons might already be in the hands of extremist organizations in the U.S.

Consider last week’s news that mentioned when Mexican drug cartel members in Acapulco got into a gunfight with police, cartel members threw fifty hand grenades. Imagine extremist in America fighting U.S police in that manner or using grenades in a racial war.

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Always has been!
Posted by: frankly1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When was'nt the U.S. military been a hate group? Racial wars with Mexicans, Indians, japaneese, Vietnameese, koreans, Cambodians, loasians and more. To fly over another country and drop bombs on civilians is a racist act and we call those that do it "heros" serving their country. I have heard grown men say that the "Japs" deserved the atom bombs and the fire bombs. Now will kill "sand niggars" for fun..HOHAH. Support the troops! By definition war is racism in action. The American military machine easily absorbed Nazi officers and their methods after the 2nd World war because they fit right in with the institutional philosophy. The Nazis got much of their racist dogma from the U.S. and said so. The U.S.A. has always been a racist nation, owned and operated by a racist elite. This is not my opinion but a simple fact that can demonstated by reading our history.

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» RE: Always has been! Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Always has been! Posted by: R.W.
I always thought...
Posted by: clvngodess on Jun 17, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... that the US Military was about xenophobia and bigotry based on what ever flavor of the month Empire was to destroy. I don't know about white supremacy per se. I think that's too easy a target. I'd say it's all out racism, depending on the economic thirst or hunger for resources the Monster called Global Corporatism, is seeking to quell.

It makes complete sense to me to fill a killing and destruction system, like the Military, with the most despicable human beings one can find --gangs, thugs, neo-nazis, skinheads, sociopaths, etc.

The rest of the wrapper regarding honor, country, and all that shit is just that, shit.

War is about killing, and domination by any means imaginable. So why would they want people with ethics or morals or critical thinking skills in theatre? If you want to destroy something, someone, societies, you don't do it with Clark Kent or Brad Pitt. You hire the right creature for the job.

The other alternative, dare I say it, would be a draft.

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» RE: A draft... Posted by: Cybershaman
And on the flip side of the coin...
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jun 17, 2009 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you have gangs from just about every street gang in America joining the military, MS 13, Crips, Bloods, etc.
linked text

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at least Nazis..
Posted by: richholland on Jun 17, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
started the fightings in their own land and were punished for their crimes.

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Skinheads invoke 14th
Posted by: dooglefish on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Wikipedia, "The Equal Protection Clause, part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, provides that "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".[1] The Equal Protection Clause can be seen as an attempt to secure the promise of the United States' professed commitment to the proposition that "all men are created equal"[2] by empowering the judiciary to enforce that principle against the states."

Now what do we make of a military which trains skinheads who get their kicks from killing non-whites? It is time to revisit the blanket incrimination applied to all Islamic and pro-Arab groups. It is clearly time to cease judiciary and law enforcement fishing expeditions whose political motives serve AIPAC and not US.

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"Moral Waivers" for white supremacists
Posted by: Jaffe on Jun 17, 2009 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Moral waivers" seems redundant given that the entire campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan is in effect racist.

I am a Vietnam-era vet (though I remained stateside), and I remember clearly the blatant racism and bigotry both in Fort Dix, New Jersey, and Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, where I trained. Most of it was directed against African-American soldiers, some against Jews or Latinos--there were very few identifiable Muslim-American soldiers then--except for a relatively small number of Black soldiers who were already under duress.

Of course, this was the time of the draft, and though there were fewer tattoos, there were probably proportionately as many "white supremacists" in the service.

It is true that now, with the burgeoning corporate-sponsored soldiers of fortune industry, there is more reason for white racists to learn how to kill the "right" way. And, yes, the military wants all the bodies it can get.

Ah, I don't expect our new President, worked up as he is about Afghanistan and Pakistan, to move on white supremacists in the military, do you?

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USA Special Forces has always been a white supremacist outfit
Posted by: bingahaba on Jun 17, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See S Goff's Hideous Dream. KKK, Aryan Nations and others have long openly recruited in the special forces.

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None of This Should Come as a Surprise
Posted by: D. Shenary on Jun 17, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The military has historically recruited the "grunts" from the fringes of our population. This includes the poor and others who have no other reasonable life options. That they recruit the morally and mentally challenged should come as no surprise either. After all they need killers and this requires very little thought or introspection. The big question is what excuse does the officer class have to offer? Patriotism alone cannot account for this.

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Really?! ......
Posted by: ava1984 on Jun 17, 2009 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE! As soon as I opened an email acct. for my, special needs, son he began getting military emails! I sent them back with a suck it or other phrases; they finally stopped when he died in his mid-'30s.

If they will pester a mildly retarded young man; why not go for the racists among us. They are in the millions! Surely, after all of these years, and all of the rotten things many of our troops have done, we do not labor in the delusion that our military is something in which to be proud.

What we have not been told is the spike in suicides in the ranks, many due to shame for what they were ordered to do in our name, and,those who are doing time for refusal of the illegal orders they could not obey in good conscience.

These are the faceless troops in which I am proud; the men in my family have served in every war at least as far back as the American Civil War. Because, they survived we are here; and, must not stand by and flag wave; while these horrors continue in our name!

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» RE: Really?! ...... Posted by: Zeugitai
» Most definitely we "must not stand by Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Really?! ...... Posted by: R.W.
All bushed up
Posted by: willymack on Jun 17, 2009 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems the poison of the bush crime spree has insinuated itself into nearly every nook and cranny of our society, including our military establishment.
Consider if you will that if the bushies HADN'T stolen the 2000 & 2004 "elections", there probably wouldn't even be two illegal and brutal occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, and (I think) there's a dandy chance 911 wouldn't have happened either. The connection between 911 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan is just too obvious to be a "coincidence". One seems to follow the other.
The fact of skinheads and neo-nazis in the military is nothing more or less than a reflection of the mind-set of the sickos in the bush regime, who lack the guts to come out and declare themselves or face an armed enemy in a field of combat.

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» RE: All bushed up Posted by: R.W.
» RE: All bushed up Posted by: Quannah
Authoritarians and fascists
Posted by: aahpat on Jun 17, 2009 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Police officers, especially narcotics police in large cities across America, have a great affinity for racism.

In the 1990's a news story made the rounds about a group of police and federal agents of all agencies in Washington, D.C. that threw a weekend party in Virginia. They called themselves the "Old Boy Network". The held a cross lighting on Saturday night of the weekend.

Just last year a Philadelphia, PA Narcotics Task Force Police officer was discharged after it was found that he had a KKK poster in his locker that said "Blue by day white by night".

Trained soldiers get a preference in police department hiring.

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» RE: Authoritarians and fascists Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
Timothy McVeigh
Posted by: aahpat on Jun 17, 2009 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In case anyone needs a reason why the training of militants is dangerous in America.

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Gang bangers too
Posted by: pomes on Jun 17, 2009 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is old news.. though by focusing mainly on white power gangs, it's got a left-winger friendly twist, now.

The Army is taking in gang bangers and thugs of all stripes as well. Just about anybody who can shoot a gun and kill people without losing too much sleep has a career waiting for them.

Some of these people are joining up to learn military skills and tactics.

LiveLeak: Gangs Make Military Unsafe

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» RE: Gang bangers too Posted by: Quannah
This article has been improved since it appeared on Salon.com
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jun 17, 2009 11:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Salon commenters made some useful (ahem) suggestions and apparently the author, or maybe an editor or two, took heed.

This is reassuring. Maybe our AlterNet comments sometimes help too.

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Short-sighted insanity
Posted by: Quannah on Jun 17, 2009 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Giving "moral waivers" to these racist assholes is so short-sighted as to be unbelievable!

Does the U.S. Military and the Pentagon not understand that they are training those who would bring about the overthrow of our own government? Do they not realize that these white supremacist groups publicly announce that they are preparing for a RACE WAR in this country, as well as a violent revolution against the government, using the training given to them FREE OF CHARGE from the military?

The FBI identified 203 veterans involved in racist hate crimes. They are just the ones who were CAUGHT.

Strange, that I was dismissed as "ridiculous" when I started discussing this topic well over a year ago. The American people had better wake up.

I'm afraid this has gone past the tipping point, actually. Maybe it's time to start country-shopping again...

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Deb
Posted by: debmcd on Jun 17, 2009 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those recuiters are so stupid. They'll let these dangerous people into our military just to make their quota. Don't they know that these mouthbreathers would kill them in a heartbeat if they get in the way of their race war?

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Killers
Posted by: Zeugitai on Jun 17, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America produces more killers, per capita, than any other country in the world. It is the intended result of the indoctrination and inculcation undergone here. If you aren't a bloodthirsty ideological-supremacist whose first recourse to solving any problem is bellicosity, you're not a real 'merican.

This is one of those articles that exposes the actual reality of the Forcibly-United States of Amerigo from which secession is verboten. The country runs on hate, coercion, duplicity, lies, subjugation, exploitation, propaganda, and lust--the lust for money, sex, power, and blood. Remember that when you are standing in a church singing songs of expiation, or spouting hypocritical cant. Remember it when you sing your songs of peace on earth. Remember the murderous boys you grew up with, now tattooed with skulls, shooting people down all over the world with American weapons, insane music blaring in ipod headphones to squelch any rational thought. Remember it when you buy for your kids computer games that train them to kill with cold impunity, or take them to learn warfare at a paintball course. Remember it when you fly your flag of bloody colonization and empire. Remember it when you watch television programs and movies that glorify violence and killing.

These hate-driven killers are just another batch of American boys, born and raised the American way. They were bred to it by this "system." Their fathers killed foreigners in their wars, or shot people on the streets as cops, and now it is the turn of these animals. What else did you expect? That these kids would grow up to be pacifists? How is that possible in America? A young pacifist would likely be beaten to death in our American schools and on our streets.

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Also in the Military academies
Posted by: Aredee on Jun 17, 2009 12:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was a news story a few years ago about fundamentalist recruiting at our military academies, especially the Air Force in Colorado Springs--also home of the religious right's "Focus on the Family."

It turns out some faculty members were apparently part of the whole thing, to the point where non-fundamentalist students were dropping out due to harassment or just plain disgust.

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Ramification upon bloody ramification
Posted by: hilaryuk on Jun 17, 2009 2:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of these ideologically motivated racists go on to work for military contractors? America is privatising war, so it seems obvious that these mercenary armies could theoretically become dominated by white supremacist killers and the nominal US government could wash its hands of the whole problem.

And presumably, when an inevitable retaliatory/terrorist attack is launched on American soil, that government and the American people would throw their hands in the air and wail "why do they hate us?". Believe it or not, it will not be because they hate your freedoms, political philosophy or religion. It will be because they hate being occupied, or hate being killed, or hate being dispossessed and bullied. Lord knows, they may even blame the whole of the US for the actions of American racists in uniform - after all, we ourselves are only too happy to blame all Muslims for the actions of a minority (see many of the comments above).

Of course, by then the US will be running a parallel risk of being assailed by internal right-wing terrorists who happen to have been well trained courtesy of the taxpayer. Presumably that training will ensure that they are somewhat more efficient and ambitious than hitherto.

Sometimes the Bible can be right: we reap what we sow. Of course, tackling the problem could be construed as an insult to the entire military, so perhaps we should all turn over and go back to sleep.

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THE NEW AND IMPROVED 'US'
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 17, 2009 2:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The social change in our country has been going on for thiry years. Simple manners and being considerate have slowly disappeared. We have become a nation of mean vindictive people. Eighth grade girls are course and vulgar and it goes downhill from there. I know, it's the web, TV and movies. There's always something to blame. The evening news is a major offender. We are the most violent country in the world. Why would it surprise anyone that we suddenly have white supremicist groups who can't wait to join the army and kill people? Please don't anyone preach about 'history'. We are writing our own chapter. Gotta love the cops! REAL discussions about torture. We are guided by what's called entertainment, and it's not "The Three Stooges". This daily dose of cruel behavior is condoned and of all the things they want removed from TV and movies this doesn't get any mention. It's simply indicated with the letter "V". Thirty years of that crap and the results shouldn't surprise anyone. Thanks, ANNA

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Hate
Posted by: hilly on Jun 17, 2009 6:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some years after the firt world war, my Mother immigrated to the USA.
We were never allow to say "I hate...." If it was a person, a type of food, or anything else, we were to say,"I dislike".

Both my sister and I thought that this was a STUPID rule, but Mom ruled.

In my old age, I see where she was going with that. I did the same thing with my children, and they do the same with theirs.

You see, no matter how angry you are, if you cannot say "hate", it somehow makes you stop and evaluate things. Try it.

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ugh-ly
Posted by: tazdelaney on Jun 17, 2009 5:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
xenophobe morons who themselves are the best examples of degenerate crud, genes and everything else gone very wrong.

7/11/06, when i was kidnapped/beaten and injected multiple times by goons in a black van with cop cherries flashing... at first we thought it was probably paid for by our adversaries over the stolen business. but in 2008, we learned that just 3 days before it happened to me, one of the fellows we'd just worked with doing antiwar websites and posters, was identically attacked, same exact MO: heading towards his car, jumped by guys, dragged into a black van, beat him, injected him and dropped him unconscious at the same hospital i was.

he was leaving the UN, having been an organizer for the huge antiwar demonstration there for which i'd designed and produced high-visibility posters, seen worldwide by millions. this let us know that it wasn't the business-thieves who had me hit. it was persons, official or otherwise, with political motives who hired these pros. as we realized at the time, the intention wasn't to kill but just damn near do so. those guys could've killed me just slamming me to the ground harder, if they'd meant to. however, whether the beating or the chemicals; health hasn't been the same since and likely never will be.

amy called bill kunkel, the fellow who introduced us in 1983. kunkel, himself anything but a cop, is from a long line of NYPD. his tank-like sister is a lieutenant here, used to be in charge of the ghouliani group of ultra-thug cops under whom hundreds (some say as many as 800 citywide), of virtually all non-white new yorkers died 'suspiciously, including the world-famous shootings of diallo. needless to say, no jail time for those nazis, in fact one of them, ironically related to amy and from a liberal hippie jewish family in brooklyn (go figure...), joined the service to go to iraq for more kiling, having gotten a taste for murder on the force. all of the diallo killers were back on the NYPD but him...

his sister told kunkel that we were probably hit by off-duty cops. she told him that such 'moonlighting' was rampant. she added that there were as many as 400 aryan nation types on the NYPD, usually preferring to work in non-white neighborhoods, of course. dober-men off the leash among the civilians. the vast majority of police and military are rightwing, always manning the front lines for fascism.

mentioning this to coogan, he told me he'd recently been at a bar where a guy introduced him to a table of what turned out to be skinhead NYPD, making no bones about being nazis. coogan just backed away...

the more aware you become of it; the more ubiquitous these guys are with their skinheads, muscles and gruesome or arcane symbol tattoos. see em everywhere. at a glance you can tell that most of them can barely play checkers, much less chess and while they rant about 'white supremacy'; can't speak decent english, mostly gutteral grunts.

they're there throughout history in one guise or another; shrug at one's own, and one's family's grave risk. my guess is that america has more of these than ever. it's a certainty that any attempt at a revolution, even one to just reinstall a constitutional government here, would have to deal with these thugs, who, far from preferring non-violence, like nothing better than shooting, bombing, beating and torturing people – albeit, the historical tradition of america forever – it's what they do for fun.

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» RE: ugh-ly Posted by: left_witch
Racism--the anti-white kind.
Posted by: IwillIwill on Jun 17, 2009 7:58 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A group of black soldiers attacked some white soldiers because they thought the white soldiers were KKK people.

Not one negative remark regarding these black racists.

I don't agree with any form of racism--it makes no sense--but I'm getting a bit p'd off at how racism against whites seems to be acceptable by the regular media dumbskies

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Encouraging Military Rebellion
Posted by: Lilly on Jun 17, 2009 9:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The other night there was a long thread on townhall.com about the hoped-for possibility of the military refusing to take orders from a Commander-in-Chief who is a) a liberal and b) not an American citizen and c) not a Christian and d) really a Muslim and e) oh by the way happens to be black. One of the major and most thematic posters was a guy who (he posts a lot on townhall) identifies himself as a former member of Special Operations serving in the Middle East and whose happiest fantasy, often posted on other theads, is to take over Washington by military force, try for treason "all elected officials and government employees" in military tribunals, and then either hang or shoot them. When he posts this stuff, other posters don't call for the looneybin van---instead, they applaud him and encourage him to start his own blog. The thread had a lot of serious discussion about how to form and encourage a military rebellion against the Obama government. Many on townhall claim a background in military service; it's hard to tell how much of this is truth and how much is fantasy. Or whether some may in fact have served and received a medical discharge for emotional illness.

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The Military Industrial Congressional Complex
Posted by: osd on Jun 17, 2009 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
has again proven that it will sink to any depths to stay in control of the government. Just so they have plenty of whack jobs to fire on the citizens of these United States.

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syed salamah ali mahdi
Posted by: salamah on Jun 18, 2009 12:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The primary differences between the beliefs of Arab/'Islamic'(?) and White 'Christian' (?) Supremacists extremists are: Whereas the former are fighting AGAINST their 'enemies' for the latter's colonizing, vandalizing, robbing, looting, bombing and occupation of the former's lands, belongings and wealth largely within the former's countries, the latter are fighting the former FOR a continuation of the said colonizing and occupation of the former's lands and the looting of their wealth. The first is DEFENCE and the latter is OFFENSE and pugnaciously and heartlessly offensive and repugnant. For 500 years the Whites have been BURDENS on the backs of all other races and not the other way round. The White Supremacists should watch very carefully for the long term results of the Yakaterinsburg Meet of last week. The White yokes, shackles and fetters are about to come off. Good Riddance!

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Something to worry about
Posted by: jom57 on Jun 18, 2009 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are men in our armed forces, and their commander in chief is from an "inferior" race. What will they do? What will they be loyal to, the Constitution of the United States, or their hate-filled ideology?

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yea
Posted by: tagshow on Jun 18, 2009 7:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now America doesn't just have Nazi nut jobs, it has Nazi nut jobs with military training. Credit Card Terminal| Point of Sale .

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Oppression is for the Nazis, not for America.
Posted by: centure7 on Jun 19, 2009 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in America we take pride in the fact that you will not be discriminated against for a job based on your religious and other beliefs. Therefore, here in America we allow you to have a job even if you are a homosexual, a racist, or even a fascist. And yes even if you are neo-Nazi.

Any company that would not hire someone just because they believed something politically incorrect is a company I would chose to not do business with. And since Alternet is activiely supporting that very idea I'll pledge right now to *never* click on any of their advertisements.

Its kind of disgusting how people will raise hell when an employer discriminates based on sexual orientation, but then gladly celebrate discrimination when their hiring practices exclude those with a mindset they don't agree with.

All these comments in support of hypocrisy are disgusting and pro-oppression. If someone has committed a crime the record will show that and the person will have a difficult time joining the military.

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Historically consistent
Posted by: erjoell on Jul 2, 2009 7:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
History channel's show gangland actually broadcast interview with Aryan Nation member who told how his gang leaders ordered him to join the Military to learn combat skills to use against minorities and the police. He also told how he displayed Nazi flag on the wall of his barracks in plain site of his company officers and never received a reprimand. None of this is new. William H. Harrison conspired to steal the lands reserved to the Shawnee by treaty by provoking a battle. Andrew Jackson after winning the Red stick war with the help of the Cherokee and the mainstream Creeks then forced his allies to sign treaties ceeding significant lands because they were members of the same race, then as president stole all of their landand forced them to resettle in Oklahoma leaving thousands of dead woman and children along the way. General Sheridan said the only good Indian is a dead Indian. Nathan Bedford Forrest murdered hundreds of African American prisoners at Fort Pillow. In WWII American submarine sailors would machine gun the survivors of sunken shipping even when those ships and crewman were Indonesian or Malaysian civilians. American marines, soldiers and airman would slaughter koreans that the Japanese had forced into service as laborers. While American generals protested against the British indiscriminate bombing of German cities, they then proceeded to engage in even worse indiscriminate fire bombings of Japanese cities which each caused more casualties than Hiroshima. In Vietnam, the slogans were "nuke the gooks", and "Kill them all, let God sort them out." The American military has a long tradition of racism, and white supremacist involvement. The current policyies come as no surprise.

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