Why the Pentagon Is Probably Lying About its Supressed Sodomy and Rape Photos

It might help to revisit the year of 2004 here; our memories being notoriously short.. Senator Lindsay Graham said "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience"
Donald Rumsfeld said "If those pictures are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse" The photgraphs show acts "that can only be desribed as blatantly sadistic, cruel, and inhumane." Rumsfelds words. Graham was speaking on CNN May 8, and Rumsfeld was speaking at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing.

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concern to America.

Instead of moving forward into a new and very challenged century w/esteemable hope we are being dragged down into a dark, draconian hole w/out a flashlight - and MSM/NPR/PBS are the tour guide.

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He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.

Syrus.

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...the Shrub team tells me that they had to torture to keep me safe...the Bam-Bam team JUST NOW, tells me that the torture pictures cannot be released because this will keep me safe? Do they ALL realllllly think that Amerikkkans and the rest of the world are THAT stupid.

I got news for both teams, after reading what happened above, they will find the imagination of the "terrorists" is a stronger image than any pictures they could release.

Is there anything left to be proud of in Amerikkka?

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After reading this article, I believe even more strongly than before that Obama must release Guantanamo's prisoners, all of them, to allow Americans the time/chance to heal (and if the prisoners are beyond healing, they should at least be allowed to die w/dignity).
What the previous governments have done, what we have allowed them to do in our name, is for us to bear and to deal with. In democratic societies, citizens must take responsibility for their (government's) wrongdoing. We did not personally and directly torture, but we knew somebody was doing it for us. Now we must atone, if we want to survive as a democratic society. It is not enough to bring the perpetrators to "justice," we must reconsider the reasons why we allowed them to act in our name. It is cowardly to simply ask that Bush et al. be put on trial while we simply remain spectators to the proceedings, once again passive viewers of another show. We must act both politically and personally to remove the false rationality of war and violence as revenge/retribution/gain(of information/resources/sadistic pleasure).

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In a country of laws both the detainees and their abusers, regardless of their rank and position, would have to stand trials in open courts with all the evidence exposed to determine their guilt or innocense. My understanding was, before voting for Mr. Obama, that it would happen after the elections. If it did happen our honor and dignity in the world would be restored even in the Muslim countries, the safety of our troops would improve and the risk of terrorist attacks would be reduced. That is because justice is still the best PR campaign and people respond positively to it regardless of their political and religious conviction.

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I would take a "small 'c'" conservative position on the photographs.

Should tabloids be allowed to publish them to boost their circulation figures?

Can we be sure that our motives are pure and do not include morbid curiosity and sexual titillation?

Do we want children to be able to come across them?

Shouldn't the photos be reserved for criminal trials?

And last but not least are we respecting the rights of the victims to privacy?

There used to be laws which prevented the publication of photos without the express consent of anyone in them. I think if we apply to others the rights we want for ourselves, we would not allow publication without consent. I know I'd be very upset if the local paper printed a photo of me on a bad hair day so why should I assume that someone photographed being raped/sodomized would not mind their humiliation being circulated world-wide.

As for our being "less safe", that's a far weaker argument. The person who most deserves being "less safe" is the same idiot who said, "Bring it on!".

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Oh I know the Far left are itching to be vindicateed - but their blind ambitions are as self serving as the Far Rights War mongering.
Ok Far Lefties, if that was you or your family member in those dispicable photos would you want them released for World wide public consumption. Wouldn't you feel violated again. Even if the face is blurred- You'd know it was your body. Let's not Rape the Rape victims a second time Shall We?
The Admin Must provide these photos to a panel of objective internationals, along with all other evidence of War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity committed by the Bush Admin. Every Facet of our Judical, legislative and military have been implicated in these International High Crimes.
Frankly I have Serious questions about Scalias part in the 'legal' Briefs penned by Baybee & Yoo. Scalia's twisted logic about torture as ONLY a means to punishment, fails to admit the obvious- torture to elicit information and even false confessions. Someone needs to investigate what 'legal ' advice Scalia gave to Cheney during their hunting trips and what mentorship he gave to Baybee & Yoo as they wrote those requested breifs.Come on you think Cheney relied on peons like Baybee & Yoo or even Gonzales to cover his ass, He had a confederate in the Highest Court who gave him the 'Go ahead' before those two Bozos put pen to paper.Torture and abuse began before the school boys were given their writing assignment and acted as patsy sheilds for the real author of those Briefs.
Instead of this exercise in Futility about what constituties torture, We Should be discussing What Constitutes Treason. Cheney Admitted he only briefed W "Basically" on what was being done.That means he omitted information HE thought unnecessary. He has confessed to Usurping and undermining the Power of the Presidency. He should be prosecuted for that.
Seems the Right Wing Media, organizations and a Camera are far better interrogators and methods to elicit truthful confessions than any form of Torture

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This article is on target. Obama is digging a very deep and dark hole for all of us as he is abetting and hiding war crimes and the criminals who condoned and participated in this sadistic behavior. There is no other way to see this as what it is--Everyone from Bush down got off on this sexual perversion committed on "detainees":THEY LIKED IT. They views photographed, listened to audio and watched videos of it being done. They all need to face the consequences of their conduct, but I do not believe it will occur as Obama seems to be of the camp, "It occurred, so what? Let's move on now". He needs to be put against the wall and made to do what is morally and legally right.

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Seems to me, lying is what the US Government does best! It was Bushes LIES that got us to Iraq in the first place was it not?

RT
Privacy Center

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...why is the Pentagon lying when this information is so widely known? The answer is, to keep the truth a state secret; to legally compel those with knowledge of the photos, even elected national officials, to shut up. Using military authority to deprive citizens, expecially civilian government officials, from speaking the truth freely, is a usurpation of power that the Constitution has explicitly denied them. The Pentagon is committing treason again.

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Don't get me wrong. I am not denying it happened. But---what is described here is so horrendous, so disgusting and so UnAmerican, that i don't WANT to believe it. So, please, make me believe. Without the release of the photos, or at least the acknowledgement of their content by an impartial agency, I don't think the charges are sustainable. As much as i fear the results of such an inquiry, I beg it to be done. IF we, as a national policy did what is reported here, then we must make it visible. Just as we honor drug and alcohol addicts who have rehabilitated themselves, we should admit we were addicted to fear and are now above such actions. It is what makes America a guiding light in a dark world.

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Let me think, why would the Pentagon lie about anything?

OH! I think I have it. The pentagon is home to a US Feral Government Agency (DOD). It is axiomatic that it will lie under any circumstances.
Where did all those big engines and other airplane parts go once they went inside the pentagon wall on Sept 11th? MAybe they got included in the recently commissioned Navy craft that was built with some of the scrap from the world trade center. Let's see Two of the biggest buildings in the world and a number of smaller ones all with steel framework are demolished and you get a few hundred tons of scrap metal - might want to check the Mob run scrap yards in New Jersey. Or perhaps waterboard Tony Soprano

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Mr. Obama is the most popular foreign leader.

So he can do know wrong.

How did this happen? He has a great PR firm working for him.

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What purpose would be served by more public display of ghastly Abu Ghraib photos of Americaan abuses? Do these voyeur want to add more fury to an already furious Muslim world?
We all know what happened in those prisons and it is a scandal of colossal proportions. The most honorable and appropriate course for the US military would be to find all responsible for the atrocities committed and put them on public trial.
I think it is safe to say everyone has seen all we need to see on this subject. BRAVO President Obama for trying at least to say ENOUGH.

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. . .rape pictues? Why, if you know that the horrible situation of sodomy by lightstick exists, if it's been exposed, do you feel justice is furthered if you get to view it?

The biggest question is this: if this had happened to YOU, would you also want, after the terrible violation, pain, and humiliation, the world viewing photographs of you experiencing this? The author writes:

"And women especially, who understand how sexual abuse and rape can break the spirit in a uniquely anguishing way, should be raising their voices loudly."

Excuse me? Is there any rape victim who wants photos of the rape on forums like this, on the news, on the internet, never to be removed? Rape breaks the spirit but publicizing pictures of rape furthers healing? Raise your voices loudly about having the circumstances exposed, which, by the way, has already happened, or this article couldn't have been written. But no way should anyone suggest that part of justice must be the further violation of the victims of these crimes by permanently making their naked, penetrated bodies on display at the moment of their greatest pain and humiliation. This dialogue seems to reveal something: that the previously-released pictures did not raise in most of us any feeling of compassion towards the victims, or raise any questions about whether or not THEY wanted the worst moments of their lives now permanently on display. Were they props, useful for us against OUR enemies? If so, how are we different FROM our enemies?

What on earth has happened to us that basic compassion does not exist? That we're so angry at a group of perpetrators that we refuse to consider the pain of the victim? That we actually use other rape victims as an excuse to expose actual human beings in situations that, had they happened to us, we'd plead and/or demand be kept as private as possible?

What has happened to us is this: the victims are being used AGAIN. They were used and abused by one faction for one purpose that has been argued for as a matter of principle. We NEEDED to torture, right? isn't that what they all said? Forget the humanity of those involved, both the torturers and the victims; it was the principle of the thing that mattered. Now a different side's principles take priority over a basic human right: the right to decent treatment before and AFTER a traumatic event.

We don't need to further expose these already-dehumanized people. Nothing is furthered by a worldwide viewing of rape, infliction of pain, humiliation. We're posturing in support of a principle at the expense of humanity, our own and the victim's. We've lost our souls. We're a polarized nation of very principled, inhumane humans. Some of whom, by the way, will enjoy the pictures and use them to further their own macho patriotism.

I recommend the German film The Lives of Others, about spying on citizens in East Germany. The director, in an interview, gave me the perspective of what happens to nations when people lose their humanity and operate completely on principle. It's worth considering before anyone insists that justice disregard the type of decency that any of us would want, or would want for our loved ones. It takes maturity and a willingness to forgo revenge so that actual justice takes place, not mere retaliation. It no more proves that Bush and Co. got away with something if the pictures themselves are suppressed than it proves a child abuser got away with it if HIS pictures are kept private. If we're going to be a mature nation, and not just a polarized nation of various groups of ideologues who leap thoughtlessly on bandwagons, it's the kind of decision we're faced with.

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The phrasing in this piece (ie, "female soldiers and other personnel were "used") shows once again the attempt to totally relieve the women rapists who took part in these sexual assaults of their own willing participation in these crimes! Remember the look of sheer joy on the face of the female soldier in the widely seen Abu Graibe pictures--- she was enjoying every bit of it! I said at the time she should have been charged with multiple counts of rape--- and so should all the people, both male and female, who took part in this! By claiming the women were somehow unwilling pawns in all of this they are once again excusing women's deviant behavior and portraying them as weak and downtrodden "victims"! In this world men get jail time for sex crimes while women get "house arrest" (if that)! Stop the sexism! Stop the excuses!!!

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They are most certainly lying, and so is Obama himself. The photos will find their way out eventually. Shame on Obama. Shame on the United States.

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To those who say that it is best not to release the photos now because of victim-privacy:

It is best that the photos be released as soon as possible to the main-steam media. Otherwise they will be leaked without the faces of the victims (or the nasty-bits) being blurred.

Also, I am sick and tired of all my friends who don't read Alternet -- good people mostly -- continuing to believe that President Obama is absolutely perfect.
HE'S WORSE THAN BUSH IN SOME WAYS! (Such as the use of certain novel legal-theories, theories not even used by the Bush administration, to take away our civil liberties.)

I say to everybody who is angered by this sexual torture and the lack of investigations -- send this and other articles to your naive friends!
Make them understand.

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but this time it will be, non-Americans, fuming from the havoc, we've created from our self inflicted terror of 9-11.

There are more then just a few of us who know that 9-11 was homegrown, so why hasn't that been an article yet? Why don't the media investigate that and talk on it until it is resolved? THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE POLITICIANS MOVE, IS TO GRAB ALOT OF ATTENTION AND KEEP SPEAKING, LOUD. THEY'LL RESPOND ONLY TO SAVE FACE. But the media has to get approval.
Thus the merry-go-round of non disclosure stays on auto-repeat.

Foreigners already know how brutal Americans IN CHARGE, can be, from history. So I know we know that, too. Still we don't do anything because it hasn't hit our own homes yet. It'll have to, before we really shed our luxuries[or have them taken, literally] and get in the fight.
For centuries, it's been White Males, who dominate our politics. {Sotomayor is no racist. The truth only hurts the guilty].
Our political views, on foreign affairs are that we are superior.
Bushites just played off of that and cooked up 9-11after Herbert Bush's turn in the White house, because Saddam wasn't willing to allow us to walk in and take control of Iraq's oil.
The scheme was cooked up, with the help of Saudi and the Bush's Saudi family, the Bin Laden's, on how we would take what we wanted, anyway. Hence, 9-11 and then the need to tie Iraq to it, so we could get THE OIL, ANYWAY and supposedly save our economy. We see now that, that was never their real reason. Just something that kept our greedy @sses pacified, while they raped and pillaged, at will.
They had to make us,fear for our lives and lose of luxury, first. Second, we had to empathize with the, poor and put upon, Iraqi people. So they fed us lie after lie, for our sympathy. We didn't really believe it and still we didn't demand, truth and transparency. So the new admin knew what to run on. It's all a script, at best.
Saddam killed his own people? Well, so did we! Who died on 9-11? Who dies in Afghan and Iraq? Who put a target on our childrens heads for the rest of eternity?
WE DID, THROUGH OUR ELECTED [OR SELECTED] OFFICIALS. What would you do if someone took control of your neighborhood? Raped you and your females, sodomized you and and your male family? Killed your father in front of you? Raped your mother while you watched? YOU WOULD KILL THEM!

These folks over in the middle east can trace their history back to biblical times. And they have always fought. Who the h3ll are we to say that they have to live like us? And just how great are we living?
Only a superior thinking mind could concieve of taking a country over. Time and time again. How are we to say we are better off then them,when we killed, Kidnapped, enslaved, stole and lied, to get a country?
How when right here, we have this article and all of these post of doubt and all of this nontransparency?
We don't know sh*t more then they do, Americans. We have been handed a constitution which says we have the right too a voice and so much more. But who can say that we are all obeying the Constitution? It's like the Constitution is optional.

-cont-

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The basic arguments pushed by Obamabots and their twins, the Bushites, boils down:

1. It will increase anti-americanism and further harm our soldiers.

2. We don't want to cause any more pain to
victims by releasing these photos.

As for the first argument, soldier safety is a moot issue. These soldiers are in an active war-zone, and be definition at a maximum risk. Further, the on going bombing of civilians in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq, is enough cause for any citizens of these countries to take up arms against our soldiers.

The argument is baseless, as neither the Bushites nor the Obamabots condemn Uncle Tom Obama for escalating the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which puts the soldiers in the harm's way.
As such, for these war crimes apologists to claim that they worry about soldiers' safety, is disingenous and hypocritical.

Obamabots' 2nd argument - shielding the victims from further pain and suffering - is also disingenous.

For one, the photos can be released by blurring the faces of the victims.

However, Uncle Tom Obama isn't releasing the photos because he is partly continuing Bush junta's policies, and partly because of the pressure it will create to prosecute higher-up officers and officials for these war crimes.


I want to see the evidence of our war crimes and I want the world to see the evil committed in our names by our government.

Next time when an administration wants to launch a war of aggression, at least we can turn to this evidence, and more and say:
Not in our name; not this time!

For a long time, the US government denied that it violated any laws, foreign or domestic.

Only after the initial photographs were leaked, that the government acknowledged its war crimes.

Yet many Americans, especially conservatives, to this day say that those pictures do not amount to torture.

We need these new photos to be released so that those Americans who downplay the earlier Abu Graib photos, may be convinced or at least shamed into silence.

Democracy requires accountability of the government; accountability requires full disclosure of the information.

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It is amazing just how low people can go in the name of protection. One person has written about the downward movement of making laws to break still further laws. Jesus remarked about the Law of God, and said,"If you break one of the least of these, you break them all."

It is so very convenient to hide behind "The Safety of the Nation" and use it as a cloak to break the Law put in place for the protection of humanity. It is NO wonder that there are millions who turn to crime when they see the highest eschelons (supposedly) flagrantly and wilfully breaking the very Law that a country was set up on. How can we expect Moslems and Hindus and any other type of Religions to respect this socalled Christianity when they see these terrible acts of dehumanising being practised by these "christians". I personally think that all those "christians" who are supposedly "good law abiding citizens" should be brought before the justice that "they" deserve.

How could these others have anything else generated in their hearts than HATE for those who say but do not. This also comes down to those who would discard the Law of God and who demand that this law of God should be eliminated from society. ALL should be brought into account. This includes all those religionists who would claim that they are "Good Christians" but who blatantly make excuses for breaking even one of those ten commandments. Unfortunately that will prove to bring most of society into condemnation.

Who will then be able to point the finger at others? We foolish people can NOT have it both ways. We either KEEP the whole law as it is set out or we put up with these self proclaimed Goody Goodies trashing societies with rape and pillage. Yes, I know someone is going to say, Well, your Bible tells us that the Children of Israel did that under order from your so called God". True, but those that were destroyed were not doing anything worse than those who were leading the USA. It was those who were committing the atrocities that were destroyed. IF God were to do the same thing today, how much of the USA and Europe would be left? Not too much I dare say. As a matter of fact, there really would not be many left anywhere in the world. Turn away from the Royal Standard of Love and you get anarchy and leaders committing heinous criminal acts. Oh yes, must not forget this ALL IN THE NAME OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION by those who are supposed to be the very best examples of society. How foolish is the heart of man? That he/she thinks they will get away with it and then claim they are innocent? Breaking that Law brings its own final destruction of ALL the Self righteous. Those who recognise that they are evil and ask forgiveness and turn away from that evil will receive it but there are the scars that witness against their actions. Those who justify their evil can only ever look forward to Divine Judgement from which there will be NO court of appeal. God will be a fair Judge and the downtrodden WILL be vindicated.

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Perhaps some of you oh so patriotic Americans can tell us how your glorious, professional military differs from, let's say the rogue militias of Sierra Leone, you know the country that best symbolizes America's acceptance of dealing with detainees in the same or similar ways, a kind of "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? Oh, I know your military has the latest technological equipment etc. but that's not what I mean. I'm referring to the military culture, the mores and ethics of the military mind, the actual structure and rules they abide by. Can you name any differences? Come on, just one?

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Thanks Naomi. But please be aware that we are all taking it in the rear by uncle Sam and the Wall street crowd. We all are being raped.
No one is special in this worst of all times to be an American.

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I'm usually lothe to use vulgarity in speaking out. Permit me an exception, here, if you will. Like Curly, when he was asked "Do you swear?" by the judge in "disorder in the court": "No, but I know all the woids".
What about the unearthing of the truth of sexual abuse by military personnel would be so terrifying to the brass? Is it that someone may make the connection between that and the sadosexual tendencies of military and highly-placed government officials? There have been rumors about the phony journalist who had a business on the side advertised on the net as "gay military stud", complete with a picture of him, naked and fully erect, and his closeness to bush for over two years. Then, there's turdblossom. In my mind, cheney is as deeply psychotic and malignantly sadistic as bush. I can picture the lot of them looking at pictures and videos of the sexual torture of hapless Arabs while in a circle-jerk. That's how little regard I have for the bushies.

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Use of private contractors in Iraqi jail interrogations highlighted by inquiry into abuse of prisoners

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These photos will only endanger our soldiers. Try those people who did the acts and put it behind us.

Bush and Cheney should be arrested and tried as war criminals.

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The disgusting mistreatment of prisoners by the United States is a blot on on all of us. How many spoke out against torture of so called "combatant" human beings? Or do you believe some people are not human? If you believe that, you cannot say you are a Christian, or Americans are great people. Shame on you!
FYI: I am a veteran of 28 years active duty, 1958-1986.

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It would do much, to regain America’s lost respect, if the guilty were prosecuted, without exception. I have seem a couple of the pictures and heard the description of others. For the world to see a child who had been violently raped by a US soldier until his intestines were hanging from the rectum would certainly not improve our world image! But to arrest and properly punish those responsible, from top to bottom, would. Remember, those who did those things are most probably now serving in the police force, all over the US. Just look what has been happening there lately!

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go to http://littlespaceforyou.blogspot.com then type in "rape of iraqi women" Be prepared to be enraged. It breaks my heart to see this. And it infuriates me that the Pentagon is trying to deny that this happened. The question is - should activists and responsible media publish these photos-- even if they are not "the photos" the Pentagon and Obama are trying to suppress? It feels like you have to really shock people into understanding the deeply shameful crimes we have committed in Iraq, in Guantanamo and beyond. How else will people understand why we are so hated? How else will we ever get anywhere close to accountability?

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Obamabots should stop pretending that they care about the victims of US war crimes; just as the neocons claim was patently false about liberating Iraqis from Saddam, so is the claim of Obama's apologists that they care about the privacy of the victims.

Again, they can't explain why can't the photos be released by simply blurring the faces of the victims.

And more importantly, how can they call for prosecution of Bush and Co when they know that Obama has made it clear that his administration will not prosecuted CIA agents involved in torture.

In fact, his DOJ has recommended that torture memos authors, Yoo, Bybee and Bradbury shouldn't be prosecuted.

Further, the DOJ report recommends that none of the Bush admin officials should be prosecuted for the torture:

"A draft report by the US Justice Department on the conduct of department lawyers who wrote memos justifying torture has reportedly been embraced by the Obama administration as a means of precluding any attempt to hold them or other Bush administration officials accountable for their crimes."

Show some backbone Obamabots: at least acknowlede all the facts and stop pretending that you support prosecution of Bush officials, even though you know Uncle Tom Obama will not prosecute anyone.

Obama has proven to be the quintessential House Negro. He has continued Bush's economic policy by embracing Wall Street. And he is following Bush on the foreign policy/war frontier as well.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNQziV7wgjw

EVRY 1 MUST WATCH this film (if u can even stand to get thru it!) Listen to accounts thru personal narrative and photo-documentation of the war-crimes (terrible abuse, and even murder) committed by American Military Police against Iraqi prisoners in Abu-Gharib prison. U’ll be shocked and outraged, and even ALMOST feel sorry 4 the troops involved (who are clearly fkd from the experience)

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It's called TORTURING DEMOCRACY and it is one of the most chilling things I've seen on this subject.

This is not something we can sweep under the rug and forget. These are REAL PEOPLE who have suffered horrendously at the hands of sadists at the very top of our government, and they MUST be held accountable for these crimes.

Every one of us needs to watch this documentary and see what has been done IN OUR NAME.

Any suggestions as to what we, collectively, can do is welcome. I'm numb after watching this. I don't know what can be done. But something HAS GOT TO BE DONE.

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Torturing Democracy

I hope you watch this documentary.

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And thank you Alternet for keeping this issue alive. The media is going to try to keep it under the rug. They will say
1. Photo release will endanger the troops.
2. Liberals hate America..
3. This was not a policy. It was excesses by few soldiers.
The reality is we have to confront war crimes as a nation and hold the perpetrators and the commanders accountable.
Only that would keep us safe in the long run.

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Why am I not surprised????????

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Sexual material has far more potency than mere cruelty and degradation. That's why rape photos of U.S. prisoners are forbidden. The people responsible, at all levels, fear that the added power of sexual images might tip the public discussion irretrievably toward holding them accountable.

No evidence should be withheld.

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This is a stark reminder of how right-biased our political discourse is.

If these atrocities could be pinned on the Democrats, the photos would have been released long ago. Fox News would show them every five minutes. Prosecutions would be underway.

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How is it that the existence of the photos became public in the first place? Was it the Obama administration who brought their existence to the limelight?

The point is, if it was Obama's administration, then what was the point of doing so if they had no intention of releasing the photos in the first place?

Surely, it wasn't for transparency's sake.

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"Whom are we protecting by not releasing the photos? The victims? Hardly."

We're actually protecting our men and women in uniform right now. If those pictures were released, the recruitment of militant Muslims will be sky-high. Also, our military will be subject to the same abuses while detained.

If we DO release these pictures, we will need to apologize profusely to those who endured these heinous crimes and to the WORLD at large. AND we will have to hold those who did these crimes accountable. These acts are crimes. As the Cheney torture debate gets more and more mass media attention, we can only hope that an independent (REAL) investigation ensues.

Contact your representatives relentlessly to get this investigation underway. Obama has many urgent real-time issues to deal with and it should be up to AG Holder to act.

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Sound like a conspiracy theory to me. By Alternet definition, the government story is correct.

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I assumed all along that the outrage over torture was based upon empathy and compassion for the victims themselves. But that obviously is not at all true. What the outrage is about is that Bush and Co. committed crimes, not that terrible things happened to actual humans. While our side may not yet be quite as dehumanized as those on the right who condone this, if we're not careful, we will be. We're heading in the same direction with different lofty words, and different ideology to prove that we and only we are correct.

If you someday are victimized, or if, God forbid, you have been in the past, and you think that only the world seeing images of you naked, in helpless situations of violation and pain, will bring the perpetrators to justice, then continue your outrage at this one detail of this horrible situation. The Telegraph UK was praised in this article for being so much more conscientious than the American press, but obviously the Telegraph did not release the photos themselves, which they must have seen in order to have such graphic knowledge of their content; rather, they released what the photos contained, protecting the victims from any number of inward and outward reactions. If they had released even one, we'd all have already seen it. obviously, the very standards being criticized here were used by the very organization that made THIS very information available. Ironic, isn't it? But this must make it very clear that releasing information is important, but releasing images is optional. Because all of the outrage here, and the (probably impotent) calls for justice happened without seeing the images.

What a despicable, voyeuristic culture we are (as usually is complained about right here) if we truly feel these pictures need to be seen by everyone. Don't we rightfully denigrate paparazzi intruding into every aspect of the lives of other humans? Weren't we outraged at the bruised face of popular star being released beyond her wishes? Does anyone think the victims of torture don't have preferences here? Anyone think even one of them wants his naked glutius maximus shown to the world with something protruding from it? It's my understanding that in Arab cultures, nudity is far more taboo than in our culture. Anyone think that perhaps the last nail in the coffin for some of these people is knowing that any time anyone wants to, they can go online and see actual images of them in these positions? Anyone want to consider the amount of shame in that?

Has anyone even THOUGHT about them? Or is it all a matter of principle? Us being right and them being wrong? That's the easy way out. Whose emotional satisfaction matters the most here?

yeah, the Bush years sucked. And you antiObamabots see exactly what you expected to see, apparently with great satisfaction. Anyone really want to personally move ahead and rebuild a tattered nation? That means justice, not retaliation. Your personal satisfaction matters not one bit, justice being blind. We can keep swinging wildly back and forth every 8-12 years, or we can mature and start building a foundation for something sustainable, a word we really like here. It's possible, but it will have to take the form it's taken in any culture that managed to pull it off: no one gets to be right all the time, principles without humanity leads to fascism, no one gets to rule unilaterally in spite of diversity. All it offers is a hope for the future, for stability. It will cause many instances of compromise, compassion, consensus, knowing that having one's personal sense of justice satisfied is not an issue. Actual justice is the issue. And empty, dehumanized posturing will be seen for what it is. And no one ever gets to finally arrive at the ideological position that allows them to avoid questioning their own self and their own motives.

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Naomi Klein, your eyes are so open and you convey what you see so well to the rest of us. Thanks for your courage and dedication.

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Maybe we should change the name of Uncle Sam to Uncle Jam.

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...911!

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I've been mulling this over and looking for the right place to post this for the first time. This is probably as good a place as any.

I want to know every dirty thing that has been done in the name of the American people since William Randolph Hearst told his man in Havana, "You provide the stories, and I'll provide the war", in creating the ginned up lies and hysteria necessary to start the Spanish-American War. I think the American people are entitled to know about all of the lies, coups, assassinations, illegal wars, and stolen elections we've been party to or committed outright to the governments and peoples of other countries for our own selfish interests.

It is time to end American Empire and have the United States become a civil and humble member of the Family of Nations, rather than the continual bully on the block. Conservatives are fond of saying that we liberals are ashamed of America. I say we all have much to be ashamed of in our dealings with the less fortunate, both at-home and abroad. It is time that ALL Americans, and the rest of the World get a full accounting of the horrible things that have been done to keep America at the top of the heap for so long. We need to be honest with ourselves, so we can be honest with the rest of the World. We especially need to be honest with our school children, and give them the real, non-sugar coated history of the U.S.

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Normally, military personnel are under tight wraps in terms of what they are allowed to do. Under Bush Admin., they were free to do as they wished to the "terrorists."
As we learned from the Nazis, humans are capable of absolutely heinous acts when allowed free reign to do so. Based on the Nazis experience, I'm sure that we have only been informed of what is the "tip of the iceberg."
I am so ashamed to be an American right now, especially since we refuse to "come clean" by admitting what was done was a violation of international law, and prosecuting those responsible- including head honchos and the dispicable underlings who committed the heinous crimes.

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They say they aren't going to release the photos...but are they going to charge the Americans involved? If they (the justice department) doesn't take this right to the top, it is proof in and of itself that America is one sick, corrupt, motherfucking country. Literally. You sick fucks.

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Do we ask why the mafia puts witnesses in cement shoes and dumps them in the harbor?

It's pretty obvious WHY they're trying to suppress this evidence and it has nothing to do with national security.

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If these allegations of rape and sodomy are true one of the responsible parties would already have leaked it all. DUH.

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...that by witholding and censoring these photos that they are "protecting" US soldiers from retribution by those who identify with the victims? Sorry, Mr. Gates, but they ALREADY KNOW what your people have done, probably better than the American people do. There's nobody to censor the word-of-mouth and Al Jazeera broadcasts. You're just covering your own asses, as usual. You've already helped al Queada more than any Madrassa ever could. And Teguba. screw you, anyways. Now, who's going to show some BALLS, beside this amazing woman, Ms. Naomi Wolf, and indict Rumsfeld for war crimes?

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I find more than a little bazaar that Cheney is all over the press right now defending his criminality and making critical statements towards Obama. Seems to me that Obama is the only thing standing between Cheney and a war crimes trial. Best not to annoy the White House when they have control over the torture evidence.

dboy

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No matter how progressive a candidate appears prior to taking office, America does not elect progressives. America elects nationalist, authoritarian, pro-corporate right wingers. President Obama is no exception.

If America had a heart for real change, Brian Moore, Cynthia McKinney, or even Dennis Kucinich would be president. President Obama and the former, so-called President Bush differ very little in their policies.

Until Americans tire of corporate protectionism and blatant human and civil rights violations in America and abroad, things will never change. And until things are a lot grimmer here at home, few Americans will even care. Maybe they won't care even then. They'll scapegoat some poor, helpless group like illegal immigrants to pin their woes on, being too stupid and cowardly to actually confront and combat the real culprits, job stripping, giant corporations.

And sadly, we can't make them care. And there's nothing you can do about any of it. Sorry. People are mostly stupid, and you can't do much with stupid.

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