COMMENTS: 83
All Troops Out By 2011? Not So Fast; Why Obama's Iraq Speech Deserves a Second Look
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Some anti-war analysts find hope in President Barack Obama's address at Camp Lejuene in North Carolina on Friday, in which he appeared to spell out a clear date for withdrawal from Iraq.
"I intend to remove all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2011," Obama said in a speech that quickly generated headlines announcing that an end to the occupation is on the horizon. As far as rhetoric goes, Obama's statement seems very clear. But in reality, it is far more complicated.
Obama's plan, as his advisors have often said, is subject to "conditions on the ground," meaning it can be altered at any point between now and 2011. Underscoring this point, a spokesperson for New York Rep. John McHugh, the ranking Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, said on Friday that Obama "assured [McHugh] he will revisit the tempo of the withdrawal, or he will revisit the withdrawal plan if the situation on the ground dictates it. … The president assured him that there was a Plan B."
Despite Obama's declarations Friday and the celebrations they have sparked on the liberal blogosphere, the Pentagon certainly seems to believe its forces may well be in Iraq after 2011. NBC's Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszeswki reported on Friday that "military commanders, despite this Status of Forces Agreement with the Iraqi government that all U.S. forces would be out by the end of 2011, are already making plans for a significant number of American troops to remain in Iraq beyond that 2011 deadline, assuming that Status of Forces Agreement agreement would be renegotiated. And one senior military commander told us that he expects large numbers of American troops to be in Iraq for the next 15 to 20 years."
Some have suggested that such statements from the military are insubordination and contrary to Obama's orders, but they could also reflect discussions between the White House and the Pentagon to which the public is not privy.
Then there's the monstrous U.S. embassy unveiled last month in Baghdad, the largest of any nation anywhere in the history of the planet and itself resembling a military base. Maintaining this fortified city will require a sizable armed U.S. presence in Baghdad and will regularly place U.S. diplomats in armed convoys that put Iraqi civilian lives in jeopardy.
Whether this job is performed by State Department Diplomatic Security or mercenaries from the company formerly known as Blackwater (or else a corporation more acceptable to the Obama administration), the U.S. will have a substantial paramilitary force regularly escorting U.S. VIPs around Iraq -- a proven recipe for civilian deaths and injuries. Obama's speech on Friday did not even address the question of military contractors -- a crucial omission given that their presence rivals that of U.S. troops by a ratio of over 1-to-1.
Finally, the Status of Forces Agreement, which supposedly lays out a timetable for U.S. withdrawal, contains a gaping loophole that leaves open the possibility of a continuation of the occupation and a sustained presence of U.S. forces well beyond 2011, "upon request by the government of Iraq." Article 27 of the SOFA allows the U.S. to undertake military action, "or any other measure," inside Iraq's borders "In the event of any external or internal threat or aggression against Iraq." Could this mean an election where the wrong candidate or party wins? What is the definition of a threat?
The Democrats' Response
Earlier in the week, when details of Obama's official Iraq plan began to emerge, expressions of surprise poured from the offices of the congressional Democratic leadership over his intention to keep a force of 35,000 to 50,000 troops in the country beyond 2010.
"When they talk about 50,000, that's a little higher number than I anticipated," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was "particularly upset" according to the New York Times and did not understand "the justification." Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., exclaimed, "Fifty thousand is more than I would have thought."
The response from the Democratic power brokers was embarrassingly disingenuous. Obama said early on in his presidential campaign that he intended to keep behind a "residual force" of the scope he laid out. Those who have long protested this aspect of his plan were marginalized and ignored in both the corporate media and the Obama campaign.
The same Democratic leaders expressing their disappointment ignored the credible voices of dissent for years while supporting the occupation through votes and funding. That they would wait to express their dissent until long after it would actually have had an impact is one of the best examples of what has been so wrong with the Democrats' role from the beginning of President George W. Bush's declaration of war against the world and his 2003 invasion of Iraq.
If Pelosi, Reid, et al., really had a problem with a 50,000 troop residual force, they certainly had ample time to say so when Obama was running for president.
On Friday, however, these same Democrats welcomed the announcement that combat missions would be out by 2011. Reid praised Obama's plan, while cautioning that we "must keep in Iraq only those forces necessary for the security of our remaining troops and the Iraqi people." Following Obama's speech at Camp Lejeune, key Senate Republicans praised Obama's plan as well, while reminding everyone that it was an outgrowth of the Bush administration.
"It is encouraging to see the Obama administration embrace the plan of Gen. David Petraeus that began with the successful surge in 2007, and continues shifting combat responsibilities to our Iraqi allies," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.
Adopting the Bush Narrative
Beyond the headline-generating news, Obama's speech at Camp Lejeune delivered a number of lines -- wrapped in laudatory rhetoric -- that could have been delivered by Bush himself.
"I want to be very clear," Obama told the military audience. "We sent our troops to Iraq to do away with Saddam Hussein's regime -- and you got the job done." Perhaps it bears remembering that "removing Saddam" was justification two or three offered by the Bush administration after the WMD fraud was exposed.
"We kept our troops in Iraq to help establish a sovereign government," Obama went on, "and you got the job done." (The idea that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki regime is either sovereign or a government is hotly debated in Iraq.) "And we will leave the Iraqi people with a hard-earned opportunity to live a better life -- that is your achievement; that is the prospect that you have made possible."
As much as could be said about this, perhaps the best response was delivered on Friday by Washington Post correspondent Thomas Ricks, who knows the situation in Iraq about as well as any journalist.
"We won't know for 10 or 15 years whether we actually did something right, even in removing Saddam Hussein," he said on MSNBC. "We may very well end up with a strongman, stronger than Saddam, closer to Tehran and certainly will be anti-American. That's in some ways the best-case scenario if that country holds together."
Regardless of what happens down the line, the world knows the truth about the lies that both Democrats and Republicans promoted in support of Bush's war against Iraq. Rather than inspire hope among Iraqis, the U.S. occupation has devastated their country and opened Iraq's gates for unprecedented violence and instability in their country and the region.
Obama, the candidate, used to riff on these truths on the campaign trail. The contradiction between President Obama's speech at Camp Lejeune and his rhetoric before he was elected should serve as a warning to those who take his words at face value. But more important, combined with his plan to escalate the war in Afghanistan, Obama's adoption of key lies from Bush's Iraq narrative should be seen as a dangerous indicator of things to come.
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Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Feb 28, 2009 1:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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» RE: I Intend To Shoot Diamonds Out of My Butt
Posted by: Erin
» Who's we, there, sparky?
Posted by: Teller
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Posted by: Jayzer on Feb 28, 2009 2:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess when all is said and done, Washington just can't seem to let go and trust nations to achieve their own sovereignty after our military has softened them up to prepare them to be good corporate-world citizens.
I realize that there is ample historical precedent along those lines and I really can't say I wasn't warned: 60-plus years after World War II, the US still has its military in Germany and other parts of Europe, Japan and Korea (55 years after the truce was signed at Panmunjon) and the US maintained bases in the Philippines for about 40 years after the end of World War II and the (nominal) independence of the Philippines had been granted on July 4, 1946 (about 50 years after Filipinos had declared themselves independent from Spain, but had it stolen away from them by Admiral Dewey, Frederick Funston and President McKinley, who couldn't even locate the archipelago on the globe before committing troops there.) and this doesn't even include the repeated "visits" by our military to our Caribbean neighbors in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Panama and Nicaragua.
So---like I said: by history, I've been amply warned.
Stupid Stupid me: to think that a new administration might even break away from an old and tired pattern.
Of course, Barack Obama has plenty of time left to prove me wrong and I'm more than willing to be wrong about this, but I'm not holding my breath, either.
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» RE: When McCain & McConnell Praise an Obama Policy, Watch Out!
Posted by: Erin
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Posted by: pfgetty on Feb 28, 2009 3:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think what you, Jeremy Scahil, are doing is criminal.
What am I talking about?
9/11 Truth.
You bring us so much information about what Bush and now Obama are doing to keep us in these ridiculous wars, with the rendition and torture and illegal imprisonment. But what would stop it all is a nationwide awareness that 9/11 was an inside job.
You are certainly too smart not to realize the truth of 9/11. The work and analysis of the evidence has been done and is very clear and conclusive. David Ray Griffin, Kevin Ryan, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, and others have laid out the proof that 9/11 was an inside job. I KNOW you have heard of these men and know their ideas. I KNOW you realize that the official story of 9/11 was a fairy tale. But you have self censored yourself. Even though you know an awareness of all of this would stop the wars and crimes and the Patriot Act, you will not bring out the information. I think we need to know why.
C'mon, Jeremy, tell us. Why has Amy Goodman, never, ever, in seven years come out with the facts of 9/11 that prove a coverup and complicity of our government in 9/11. It is not for lack of facts or evidence against the official story. The work has already been done. Nothing could be easier. But you and her have decided to keep the truth from us, and so.............the horrors of the war on terror and the Cheyney plan continue, and will continue.
I think it is criminal for you and Amy to do withhold the truth that is crippling America. I think my kids will suffer throughout their lives because you and Alternet and the rest have keep the truth from the American people.
If you think there should be a place in jail for Bush/Cheyney, I think you should plan on a place for the entire media that conspired for over seven years to a censorship of the facts of the most important story of all time.
If you want to tell us why you have done this, please do, right here. If you want to tell me that I am obnoxious, or even tell me the truth about this, personally, then email me at pfgetty@embarqmail.com
I'm waiting for you to come clean. You could change the world if you did.
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» RE: But Jeremy, you are part of the reason these wars continue!
Posted by: Captainmagic
» The time factor........you are right, Erin
Posted by: pfgetty
» Love your post.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Leave Jeremy alone
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I know, I know, I like Jeremy too.
Posted by: pfgetty
» The saddest thing about it is . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» Yes it does, dustdevil
Posted by: pfgetty
» US Fascism is being concealed by control of the media . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» Jeremy? Can you hear us?
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: I know, I know, I like Jeremy too.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I think...
Posted by: JohnJlws
» and you are in some serious denial!
Posted by: pfgetty
» You need to take off your tin foil hat . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Hey troll, check me out on YouTube and try to rebut THIS.... .
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» Giuliani also needs to answer why . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Giuliani also needs to answer why . . .Agree 100%. n/t
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» And no journalists are the least bit curious about it. Hmmm...........
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Giuliani also needs to answer why . . .
Posted by: weathered
» Great Job Deborah
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Great Job Deborah - Thanks. And notice....
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» YAWN!!
Posted by: JohnJlws
» And what do you think about WMD and the rest of the horror from Bush?
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: YAWN!!
Posted by: weathered
» Yes, so scared they are of a real investigation!
Posted by: pfgetty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cordas on Feb 28, 2009 3:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would happen if the coalition troops where all pulled out tomorrow? Would Iraq pull itself together or burst into civil war? Does the fact that bush/blair and co made this mess mean that we can just walk away and let all hell break loose? Do we have a responsibility to the Iraqi people to try and leave their country in a better condition than bush's idiocy left it? Should we have a plan set in stone, or should we have a flexible plan allows changes to be made if required.
I would say... Anarchy, civil war, no, yes and a flexible plan to those questions. So I am left wondering how can we disengage successfully... and looking at what Obama has proposed... it sounds reasonable and realistic.
So how about we give him a chance before we lynch him.... I believe Bush/blair lied to us about Iraq, but that doesn't mean that Obama will. I think we owe it to him and OURSELVES to see if his actions match his words or not.
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» RE: Is Obama George Bush?
Posted by: rnagisetty
» RE: Is Obama George Bush?
Posted by: hilaryuk
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Feb 28, 2009 3:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What he did was essentially put his name on Bush's and McCains plan. What he didnt do was praise the troops for "winning", nor did he credit the surge for being so successful.
We've been here before .. Nixons plan to end the war prolonged the war - History repeats its self
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» RE: Always think closely
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Always think closely
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Always listen closely
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Always listen closely
Posted by: 2thepoint
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Posted by: DrBrian on Feb 28, 2009 3:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In human life (theirs and ours) and money, military adventurism and imperialism are extravagantly expensive, and I'm still not convinced that borrowing money from the Chinese and Japanese to make war on Iraqis and Afghans is such a great idea.
From my vantage point, teaching and practicing critical care medicine in Dhaka and caring for some of the world's poorest children, watching them die because we lack basic equipment needed to save them when my country is spending $100,000 a minute in Iraq alone to make enemies, recruit terrorists and lower our standing in the world calls into question our priorities, especially those of the conservative Christians and Jews who advocated and initiated this horror show; it is more frustrating than you can imagine.
Obama is, to date, Bush Lite. He won't renounce imperialism until economics and public pressure force him. We can't let up in our efforts just because Bush is gone when the same basic ideology remains regnant.
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» RE: Bush Lite
Posted by: rnagisetty
» Israel's gifts to America
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 28, 2009 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many times must he Clarifiy his position until the Left finally HEARS it?
"16 Months" -dependent on the 'conditons on the Ground' and 'consultation with military advisors'.Obama did not hold the same plans as Kucinich,Gravel, Paul or Nadar- Get over it!
Although I was a Kucinich Prim voter- I thought it rather naive & dangerous to just yank everyone out all at once. 'we broke it' , so it would be irresponsible to merely set it back up on the shelf and walk away- it will come back and bite US in the Ass- Like the disasterous aftermath of the First 'Blood For Oil'Gulf War. So no doubt one way or anothr we're gonna be there for a while.Same goes for Afghanistan.Sucks but True
What I would like to hear is that we are closing bases in Countries we no longer need to be in- Germany can fend for it's self. there are countless bases around the world where their own Gov'ts are perfectly capable of defending their people- We don't need to hang around any more. If they need US, call US, but otherwise it's a complete waste of our money!In fact don't just close the Prison at Gitmo- sign the property over to the Cubans.Call it the first step towards resolution with Cuba.We don't need that little scratch of dirt, our technology makes it obsolete.
Instead of getting our 'lefty' panties in a twister about situation that are currently a cluster, perhaps we should focus on long resolved conflicts which no long present any grave threat and are only granting the spend bingers at the Pentagon more money to throw down their million dollar toilets at their latest 'Tail Hook' Parties.
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» RE: "hear what you want to hear"?
Posted by: rnagisetty
» Wright under the bus
Posted by: lorado
» RE: "hear what you want to hear"?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: "hear what you want to hear"?
Posted by: undead
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Posted by: obamapawn on Feb 28, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This government has built huge city size military bases in Iraq in addition to the worlds largest embassy. It is not going to abandon these military bases.
The motive for the private central bankers of the world which include the Federal Reserve Bank in promoting this war and all other wars is to lend money for military arms and earn huge amounts of interest. Even more importantly, the Federal Reserve Bank in order to fund these wars prints trillions of US dollars and pumps them in to the monetary system. As a result, the dollars we already have are devalued. Saying this another way, the Federal Reserve Bank creates inflation, the consumer pays more for the goods it needs and more of the wealth of the nation is stolen by the corrupt private central banking system started by the Rothschilds in Europe.
It is probably already too late but at least people should start realizing that it is.
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Posted by: PaulS on Feb 28, 2009 6:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Opinion polls have consistently shown that at most only 20% of the population support an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. The 60%-plus majorities included those who favored timetables up to two years. So Obama's plan achieves a real consensus.
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» RE: A REAL CONSENSUS?
Posted by: americansheep
» No such thing as a "non-combat" military force
Posted by: PrinceRobert
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Posted by: mgsmylie on Feb 28, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: mgsmylie- Obama did NOT "end the war"
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I agree. You've got it completely right
Posted by: pfgetty
» ENABLERS OF WAR CRIME
Posted by: americansheep
» I have 30 years military service and I DO NOT support the troops
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: That's quite the bold statement, pfgetty.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» Yes, I feel sorry for the troops
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Yes, I feel sorry for the troops
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
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Posted by: DCostello2 on Feb 28, 2009 8:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: 50/50 VISION DEFICIT I just don't understan' no understandin'
Posted by: americansheep
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Posted by: Zimbly on Feb 28, 2009 8:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Names like Zbigniew Brezinski,.....interestingly, Ziggy always "shows up" during a Democrat run presidency .Until the Federal Reserve Act, the Federal Reserve itself are completely dismantled, the issuance of money returned to the Government. The MIC is confronted head on and a REAL investigation into the "Coup'd'etat" that was 911. Then unfortunately Amerika is heading off the cliff. I agree that folks like Amy Goodman and Jeremy Schahill need to finally grow some balls and have the courage to ask where the REAL enemy is.
We all know that if Obama was serious about making any REAL changes, there would be a "lone gunman" event pretty quick.
We must finally conclude that the assassination of JFK was a watershed event. The Oliver Stone movie in a very subtle way "shows" us who are the folks with "REALPOWER". America suffered a tragedy then, to which it has yet to recover. Only when all the elements of this "shadow government: are fully exposed to the light of public scrutiny, only then will we see change and at that there will be blood flowing in the streets of Amerika, because don't think for a minute these "power brokers" are just going to roll over and play dead. The real Revolution has yet to happen, when it does,things are going to get pretty messy.Only when Americans as a whole get very, very uncomfortable, will they finally see what's at stake, it will take millions of hungry stomachs and empty homes before "they finally get it" . Lets hope "people wake up" before the tragedy gets even more tragic.
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Posted by: archivist on Feb 28, 2009 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead the troops are in reality going to be there in signifigant force after his first term. He just told you this! How is this a fullfillment of his promise to get the troops home? The end of 2011! He is going to be in full swing campaign mode at that time for the 2012 election!
Wonder if Hillary is going to run against him or has she just been out-foxed, I mean appointed?
Watch cognative dissonance kick in now.
Prediction: Iraq will still be a major story 8 years from now with about 50k troops or more which is a very signifigant costly force to maintain.
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Posted by: jadedhope on Feb 28, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If economic collapse will rid us of Dems and Repubs . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
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Posted by: mbruton on Feb 28, 2009 12:38 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good plan Obama. Your such a freakin peace maker. Keep em hopenitized.
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Posted by: pvalemont@bigpond.com on Feb 28, 2009 2:02 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Pamela, Poet from Australia
Posted by: undead
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Posted by: chlamor on Feb 28, 2009 3:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Chris Floyd:
But the hypocrisy – the literally murderous hypocrisy – of claiming that this plan "leaves Iraq to its people and responsibly ends this war," as Obama asserted in his State of the Union speech, is sickening. It does no such thing, and he knows it.
Instead, it entrenches the United States more and more deeply in a "counter-insurgency" war on behalf of whichever clique or faction of sectarian parties in Iraq is the most effective in adhering to America's dominationist agenda in the region. It sends an apparently endless stream of American troops to die -- and, in even greater numbers, to kill -- in a criminal action that has helped bankrupt our own country while sending waves of violent instability and extremism around the world. It will further enfilth a cesspool of corruption and war profiteering that has already reached staggering, world-historical proportions.
All of this is what the Obama-Petraeus plan will do. But what it won't do is "end this war" -- "responsibly" or otherwise. When Obama says it will -- as he said last night to a rapt national audience -- he is, quite simply, and very deliberately, lying.
And from WSWS:
Hammering home his acceptance of the lies used to justify the 2003 invasion, Obama declared to his military audience, "And so I want to be very clear: We sent our troops to Iraq to do away with Saddam Hussein's regime—and you got the job done. We kept our troops in Iraq to help establish a sovereign government—and you got the job done. And we will leave the Iraqi people with a hard-earned opportunity to live a better life—that is your achievement; that is the prospect that you have made possible."
In a particularly loathsome passage directed at the Iraqi people, Obama declared, "We Americans have offered our most precious resource—our young men and women—to work with you to rebuild what was destroyed by despotism; to root out our common enemies; and to seek peace and prosperity for our children and grandchildren, and for yours."
In fact, the principal force of destruction in Iraq has been the American military itself. More than a million people have died as a result of the war and occupation, and millions more turned into refugees. The economy of the country has been shattered by two wars and a decade-long sanctions regime.
All the lies used to justify this crime—lies facilitated by the Democrats and explicitly endorsed by Obama—were intended to cover for a policy aimed at securing the geo-strategic interests of American imperialism, above all the control of Iraq's oil resources.
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Posted by: EHarold on Feb 28, 2009 3:42 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dismantle AIPAC
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: AJR Journal on Feb 28, 2009 6:57 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Victory is within our grasp. Let's not squander it. Iraq will be fine, if we do not withdraw too quickly.
In fact, let's keep a big base there (if they let us).
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» RE: Let's not choose to lose!
Posted by: EHarold
» RE: Let's not choose to lose!
Posted by: markw4786
» We are the good guys!
Posted by: AJR Journal
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Feb 28, 2009 11:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Yes, Yes, Yes.
Posted by: EHarold
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Posted by: markw4786 on Feb 28, 2009 11:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...AND...Pres O WE CAN'T AFFORD THIS! Diplomatically, politically, geopolitically, financially, morally, historically, DANMMIT! we voted for change...WE DEMAND IT!
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Posted by: ZPaul on Mar 1, 2009 4:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GatoPreto on Mar 1, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This 16-month nonsense is just time bought to find another reason to keep the industrial-media-military complex running. The $ argument is an obvious weak spot.
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Posted by: mikacct on Mar 1, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xbj on Mar 2, 2009 6:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congratulations. We told you so. FROM DAY ONE.
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Posted by: kamalchassan on Mar 4, 2009 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like you to take AIPAC head on, I know it's a very big bite and dangerous one.I as a Palestinian refugee,born in Lebanon, know first hand about Israeli influance and control of our elected officials and in shaping US forgine policy visve Israel/Palestine.No body seems capable or willing to take this monster on.So please do it and may all the good forces be at your back...
Kamal Hassan,
Palestinian Peace Activist,
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Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Feb 28, 2009 1:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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» RE: I Intend To Shoot Diamonds Out of My Butt
Posted by: Erin
» Who's we, there, sparky?
Posted by: Teller
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Posted by: Jayzer on Feb 28, 2009 2:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess when all is said and done, Washington just can't seem to let go and trust nations to achieve their own sovereignty after our military has softened them up to prepare them to be good corporate-world citizens.
I realize that there is ample historical precedent along those lines and I really can't say I wasn't warned: 60-plus years after World War II, the US still has its military in Germany and other parts of Europe, Japan and Korea (55 years after the truce was signed at Panmunjon) and the US maintained bases in the Philippines for about 40 years after the end of World War II and the (nominal) independence of the Philippines had been granted on July 4, 1946 (about 50 years after Filipinos had declared themselves independent from Spain, but had it stolen away from them by Admiral Dewey, Frederick Funston and President McKinley, who couldn't even locate the archipelago on the globe before committing troops there.) and this doesn't even include the repeated "visits" by our military to our Caribbean neighbors in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Panama and Nicaragua.
So---like I said: by history, I've been amply warned.
Stupid Stupid me: to think that a new administration might even break away from an old and tired pattern.
Of course, Barack Obama has plenty of time left to prove me wrong and I'm more than willing to be wrong about this, but I'm not holding my breath, either.
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» RE: When McCain & McConnell Praise an Obama Policy, Watch Out!
Posted by: Erin
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Posted by: pfgetty on Feb 28, 2009 3:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think what you, Jeremy Scahil, are doing is criminal.
What am I talking about?
9/11 Truth.
You bring us so much information about what Bush and now Obama are doing to keep us in these ridiculous wars, with the rendition and torture and illegal imprisonment. But what would stop it all is a nationwide awareness that 9/11 was an inside job.
You are certainly too smart not to realize the truth of 9/11. The work and analysis of the evidence has been done and is very clear and conclusive. David Ray Griffin, Kevin Ryan, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, and others have laid out the proof that 9/11 was an inside job. I KNOW you have heard of these men and know their ideas. I KNOW you realize that the official story of 9/11 was a fairy tale. But you have self censored yourself. Even though you know an awareness of all of this would stop the wars and crimes and the Patriot Act, you will not bring out the information. I think we need to know why.
C'mon, Jeremy, tell us. Why has Amy Goodman, never, ever, in seven years come out with the facts of 9/11 that prove a coverup and complicity of our government in 9/11. It is not for lack of facts or evidence against the official story. The work has already been done. Nothing could be easier. But you and her have decided to keep the truth from us, and so.............the horrors of the war on terror and the Cheyney plan continue, and will continue.
I think it is criminal for you and Amy to do withhold the truth that is crippling America. I think my kids will suffer throughout their lives because you and Alternet and the rest have keep the truth from the American people.
If you think there should be a place in jail for Bush/Cheyney, I think you should plan on a place for the entire media that conspired for over seven years to a censorship of the facts of the most important story of all time.
If you want to tell us why you have done this, please do, right here. If you want to tell me that I am obnoxious, or even tell me the truth about this, personally, then email me at pfgetty@embarqmail.com
I'm waiting for you to come clean. You could change the world if you did.
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» RE: But Jeremy, you are part of the reason these wars continue!
Posted by: Captainmagic
» The time factor........you are right, Erin
Posted by: pfgetty
» Love your post.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Leave Jeremy alone
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I know, I know, I like Jeremy too.
Posted by: pfgetty
» The saddest thing about it is . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» Yes it does, dustdevil
Posted by: pfgetty
» US Fascism is being concealed by control of the media . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» Jeremy? Can you hear us?
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: I know, I know, I like Jeremy too.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I think...
Posted by: JohnJlws
» and you are in some serious denial!
Posted by: pfgetty
» You need to take off your tin foil hat . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Hey troll, check me out on YouTube and try to rebut THIS.... .
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» Giuliani also needs to answer why . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Giuliani also needs to answer why . . .Agree 100%. n/t
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» And no journalists are the least bit curious about it. Hmmm...........
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Giuliani also needs to answer why . . .
Posted by: weathered
» Great Job Deborah
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Great Job Deborah - Thanks. And notice....
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» YAWN!!
Posted by: JohnJlws
» And what do you think about WMD and the rest of the horror from Bush?
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: YAWN!!
Posted by: weathered
» Yes, so scared they are of a real investigation!
Posted by: pfgetty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cordas on Feb 28, 2009 3:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would happen if the coalition troops where all pulled out tomorrow? Would Iraq pull itself together or burst into civil war? Does the fact that bush/blair and co made this mess mean that we can just walk away and let all hell break loose? Do we have a responsibility to the Iraqi people to try and leave their country in a better condition than bush's idiocy left it? Should we have a plan set in stone, or should we have a flexible plan allows changes to be made if required.
I would say... Anarchy, civil war, no, yes and a flexible plan to those questions. So I am left wondering how can we disengage successfully... and looking at what Obama has proposed... it sounds reasonable and realistic.
So how about we give him a chance before we lynch him.... I believe Bush/blair lied to us about Iraq, but that doesn't mean that Obama will. I think we owe it to him and OURSELVES to see if his actions match his words or not.
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» RE: Is Obama George Bush?
Posted by: rnagisetty
» RE: Is Obama George Bush?
Posted by: hilaryuk
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Feb 28, 2009 3:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What he did was essentially put his name on Bush's and McCains plan. What he didnt do was praise the troops for "winning", nor did he credit the surge for being so successful.
We've been here before .. Nixons plan to end the war prolonged the war - History repeats its self
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» RE: Always think closely
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Always think closely
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Always listen closely
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Always listen closely
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DrBrian on Feb 28, 2009 3:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In human life (theirs and ours) and money, military adventurism and imperialism are extravagantly expensive, and I'm still not convinced that borrowing money from the Chinese and Japanese to make war on Iraqis and Afghans is such a great idea.
From my vantage point, teaching and practicing critical care medicine in Dhaka and caring for some of the world's poorest children, watching them die because we lack basic equipment needed to save them when my country is spending $100,000 a minute in Iraq alone to make enemies, recruit terrorists and lower our standing in the world calls into question our priorities, especially those of the conservative Christians and Jews who advocated and initiated this horror show; it is more frustrating than you can imagine.
Obama is, to date, Bush Lite. He won't renounce imperialism until economics and public pressure force him. We can't let up in our efforts just because Bush is gone when the same basic ideology remains regnant.
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» RE: Bush Lite
Posted by: rnagisetty
» Israel's gifts to America
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 28, 2009 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many times must he Clarifiy his position until the Left finally HEARS it?
"16 Months" -dependent on the 'conditons on the Ground' and 'consultation with military advisors'.Obama did not hold the same plans as Kucinich,Gravel, Paul or Nadar- Get over it!
Although I was a Kucinich Prim voter- I thought it rather naive & dangerous to just yank everyone out all at once. 'we broke it' , so it would be irresponsible to merely set it back up on the shelf and walk away- it will come back and bite US in the Ass- Like the disasterous aftermath of the First 'Blood For Oil'Gulf War. So no doubt one way or anothr we're gonna be there for a while.Same goes for Afghanistan.Sucks but True
What I would like to hear is that we are closing bases in Countries we no longer need to be in- Germany can fend for it's self. there are countless bases around the world where their own Gov'ts are perfectly capable of defending their people- We don't need to hang around any more. If they need US, call US, but otherwise it's a complete waste of our money!In fact don't just close the Prison at Gitmo- sign the property over to the Cubans.Call it the first step towards resolution with Cuba.We don't need that little scratch of dirt, our technology makes it obsolete.
Instead of getting our 'lefty' panties in a twister about situation that are currently a cluster, perhaps we should focus on long resolved conflicts which no long present any grave threat and are only granting the spend bingers at the Pentagon more money to throw down their million dollar toilets at their latest 'Tail Hook' Parties.
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» RE: "hear what you want to hear"?
Posted by: rnagisetty
» Wright under the bus
Posted by: lorado
» RE: "hear what you want to hear"?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: "hear what you want to hear"?
Posted by: undead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: obamapawn on Feb 28, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This government has built huge city size military bases in Iraq in addition to the worlds largest embassy. It is not going to abandon these military bases.
The motive for the private central bankers of the world which include the Federal Reserve Bank in promoting this war and all other wars is to lend money for military arms and earn huge amounts of interest. Even more importantly, the Federal Reserve Bank in order to fund these wars prints trillions of US dollars and pumps them in to the monetary system. As a result, the dollars we already have are devalued. Saying this another way, the Federal Reserve Bank creates inflation, the consumer pays more for the goods it needs and more of the wealth of the nation is stolen by the corrupt private central banking system started by the Rothschilds in Europe.
It is probably already too late but at least people should start realizing that it is.
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Posted by: PaulS on Feb 28, 2009 6:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Opinion polls have consistently shown that at most only 20% of the population support an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. The 60%-plus majorities included those who favored timetables up to two years. So Obama's plan achieves a real consensus.
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» RE: A REAL CONSENSUS?
Posted by: americansheep
» No such thing as a "non-combat" military force
Posted by: PrinceRobert
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Posted by: mgsmylie on Feb 28, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: mgsmylie- Obama did NOT "end the war"
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I agree. You've got it completely right
Posted by: pfgetty
» ENABLERS OF WAR CRIME
Posted by: americansheep
» I have 30 years military service and I DO NOT support the troops
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: That's quite the bold statement, pfgetty.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» Yes, I feel sorry for the troops
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Yes, I feel sorry for the troops
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DCostello2 on Feb 28, 2009 8:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: 50/50 VISION DEFICIT I just don't understan' no understandin'
Posted by: americansheep
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Posted by: Zimbly on Feb 28, 2009 8:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Names like Zbigniew Brezinski,.....interestingly, Ziggy always "shows up" during a Democrat run presidency .Until the Federal Reserve Act, the Federal Reserve itself are completely dismantled, the issuance of money returned to the Government. The MIC is confronted head on and a REAL investigation into the "Coup'd'etat" that was 911. Then unfortunately Amerika is heading off the cliff. I agree that folks like Amy Goodman and Jeremy Schahill need to finally grow some balls and have the courage to ask where the REAL enemy is.
We all know that if Obama was serious about making any REAL changes, there would be a "lone gunman" event pretty quick.
We must finally conclude that the assassination of JFK was a watershed event. The Oliver Stone movie in a very subtle way "shows" us who are the folks with "REALPOWER". America suffered a tragedy then, to which it has yet to recover. Only when all the elements of this "shadow government: are fully exposed to the light of public scrutiny, only then will we see change and at that there will be blood flowing in the streets of Amerika, because don't think for a minute these "power brokers" are just going to roll over and play dead. The real Revolution has yet to happen, when it does,things are going to get pretty messy.Only when Americans as a whole get very, very uncomfortable, will they finally see what's at stake, it will take millions of hungry stomachs and empty homes before "they finally get it" . Lets hope "people wake up" before the tragedy gets even more tragic.
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Posted by: archivist on Feb 28, 2009 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead the troops are in reality going to be there in signifigant force after his first term. He just told you this! How is this a fullfillment of his promise to get the troops home? The end of 2011! He is going to be in full swing campaign mode at that time for the 2012 election!
Wonder if Hillary is going to run against him or has she just been out-foxed, I mean appointed?
Watch cognative dissonance kick in now.
Prediction: Iraq will still be a major story 8 years from now with about 50k troops or more which is a very signifigant costly force to maintain.
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Posted by: jadedhope on Feb 28, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If economic collapse will rid us of Dems and Repubs . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
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Posted by: mbruton on Feb 28, 2009 12:38 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good plan Obama. Your such a freakin peace maker. Keep em hopenitized.
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Posted by: pvalemont@bigpond.com on Feb 28, 2009 2:02 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Pamela, Poet from Australia
Posted by: undead
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Posted by: chlamor on Feb 28, 2009 3:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Chris Floyd:
But the hypocrisy – the literally murderous hypocrisy – of claiming that this plan "leaves Iraq to its people and responsibly ends this war," as Obama asserted in his State of the Union speech, is sickening. It does no such thing, and he knows it.
Instead, it entrenches the United States more and more deeply in a "counter-insurgency" war on behalf of whichever clique or faction of sectarian parties in Iraq is the most effective in adhering to America's dominationist agenda in the region. It sends an apparently endless stream of American troops to die -- and, in even greater numbers, to kill -- in a criminal action that has helped bankrupt our own country while sending waves of violent instability and extremism around the world. It will further enfilth a cesspool of corruption and war profiteering that has already reached staggering, world-historical proportions.
All of this is what the Obama-Petraeus plan will do. But what it won't do is "end this war" -- "responsibly" or otherwise. When Obama says it will -- as he said last night to a rapt national audience -- he is, quite simply, and very deliberately, lying.
And from WSWS:
Hammering home his acceptance of the lies used to justify the 2003 invasion, Obama declared to his military audience, "And so I want to be very clear: We sent our troops to Iraq to do away with Saddam Hussein's regime—and you got the job done. We kept our troops in Iraq to help establish a sovereign government—and you got the job done. And we will leave the Iraqi people with a hard-earned opportunity to live a better life—that is your achievement; that is the prospect that you have made possible."
In a particularly loathsome passage directed at the Iraqi people, Obama declared, "We Americans have offered our most precious resource—our young men and women—to work with you to rebuild what was destroyed by despotism; to root out our common enemies; and to seek peace and prosperity for our children and grandchildren, and for yours."
In fact, the principal force of destruction in Iraq has been the American military itself. More than a million people have died as a result of the war and occupation, and millions more turned into refugees. The economy of the country has been shattered by two wars and a decade-long sanctions regime.
All the lies used to justify this crime—lies facilitated by the Democrats and explicitly endorsed by Obama—were intended to cover for a policy aimed at securing the geo-strategic interests of American imperialism, above all the control of Iraq's oil resources.
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Posted by: EHarold on Feb 28, 2009 3:42 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dismantle AIPAC
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: AJR Journal on Feb 28, 2009 6:57 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Victory is within our grasp. Let's not squander it. Iraq will be fine, if we do not withdraw too quickly.
In fact, let's keep a big base there (if they let us).
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» RE: Let's not choose to lose!
Posted by: EHarold
» RE: Let's not choose to lose!
Posted by: markw4786
» We are the good guys!
Posted by: AJR Journal
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Feb 28, 2009 11:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Yes, Yes, Yes.
Posted by: EHarold
Comments are closed-
Posted by: markw4786 on Feb 28, 2009 11:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...AND...Pres O WE CAN'T AFFORD THIS! Diplomatically, politically, geopolitically, financially, morally, historically, DANMMIT! we voted for change...WE DEMAND IT!
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Posted by: ZPaul on Mar 1, 2009 4:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GatoPreto on Mar 1, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This 16-month nonsense is just time bought to find another reason to keep the industrial-media-military complex running. The $ argument is an obvious weak spot.
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Posted by: mikacct on Mar 1, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xbj on Mar 2, 2009 6:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congratulations. We told you so. FROM DAY ONE.
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Posted by: kamalchassan on Mar 4, 2009 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like you to take AIPAC head on, I know it's a very big bite and dangerous one.I as a Palestinian refugee,born in Lebanon, know first hand about Israeli influance and control of our elected officials and in shaping US forgine policy visve Israel/Palestine.No body seems capable or willing to take this monster on.So please do it and may all the good forces be at your back...
Kamal Hassan,
Palestinian Peace Activist,
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