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Israeli Assault Injures 1.5 Million Gazans

By Jonathan Cook, AlterNet. Posted January 17, 2009.


In addition to the 1,000 deaths, there are some 1.5 million injured in Gaza. How has such an astounding figure passed the world's media by?
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This week the death toll in Gaza passed the 1,000 mark, after nearly three weeks of Israeli air and ground attacks. But surprisingly, no one has reported an even more appalling statistic: that there are some 1.5 million injured Palestinians in Gaza. How is is possible that such an astounding figure could have passed the world's media by?

The reason apparently is that they have been relying on the highly unreliable statistics provided by official Palestinian sources. It appears that the Palestinian health ministry only records as wounded those Gazans who need to stay in hospital because of the severity of their injuries.

That means they only count the more than 4,500 Gazans who have suffered injuries such as severe burns from exploding Israeli phosphorus shells; shrapnel wounds from artillery rounds; broken or lost limbs from aerial bombardment; bullet wounds; physical trauma from falling building debris; and so on.

But in fact there is another, far more reasonable standard for assessing those injured, one that provides the far higher total of 1.5 million Gazans -- or every surviving Palestinian in Gaza. The measure I am referring to is the one employed by Israel.

Here is an example of its use. In September 2007, the international media reported that 69 Israeli soldiers had been wounded when Palestinian militants fired a rocket into the Zikim army base near the Gaza Strip. The rocket struck a tent where the soldiers were sleeping.

It is worth noting the details of the attack. Israeli officials related that, of the 69 wounded, 11 had moderate or severe injuries and one was critically injured. A few more had light wounds. The rest, probably 50 or more, were injured in the sense that they were suffering from shock.

So, if we apply the same standard to Gaza, that would mean 1.5 million Gazans have been wounded. Or is there still some doubt about whether the weeks of bombardment of Gaza, one of the most densely populated places on earth, have left the entire civilian population in a deep, and possibly permanent, state of shock?

Talking of Gaza's civilians, where did they all go? Israel's so-called "war" on Gaza must be the first example in human history of a conflict where there are apparently no civilians. Or, at least, that is the impression being created by the world's leading international bodies, from the World Health Organisation to the United Nations. Instead they refer to a new category of "women and children".

Thus, those 1,000-plus dead Gazans are broken down into percentages defined in terms of "women and children" and the rest. The earliest figures stated that about 25 per cent of Gaza's dead were "women and children", and that has steadily climbed close to the 50 per cent mark since Israel's ground invasion got under way.

The implication -- one with which Israel is presumably delighted -- is that the rest are Palestinian fighters, or "terrorists" as Israel would prefer us to call them. It also suggests that every man in Gaza over the age of 16 is being defined as a non-civilian -- as a combatant and, again by implication, as a terrorist. In short, all Gaza's men are legitimate targets for Israeli attack.

This is not very far from the position recently attributed to Israeli policymakers by the daily Jerusalem Post. The newspaper reported that officials had come to the view that "it would be pointless for Israel to topple Hamas because the population [of Gaza] is Hamas".

On this thinking, Israel is at war with every single man, woman and child in Gaza, which is very much how it looks. Maybe we should be glad that the category of "women and children" is still being recognized -- at least, for now.


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See more stories tagged with: war, israel, casualties, gaza, death toll, hamas, blockade

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest book is "Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair" (Zed Books). His website is www.jkcook.net.

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A Blunder of Bushian Proportions
Posted by: DrBrian on Jan 17, 2009 12:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Operation Cast Lead is a catastrophe for Palestine, Israel and the US. The callous disregard for civilians and international law has shocked and appalled the world and will surely lead to greater terrorism. No amount of sophistry can conceal the atrocities, and the ludicrous statements of American and Israeli officials merely diminish their credibility.

The only heroes in this sorry spectacle are the Palestinian and expat paramedics, nurses and doctors who have bravely and tirelessly worked to mitigate the suffering, the few journalists allowed in who have brought the truth to the world, the humanitarian workers of the UN, Red Cross/Red Crescent and other groups who have done what they could, and the ordinary Gazans who have struggled to survive.

Obama, a decent man with progressive instincts, has already diminished his credibility in the Muslim world with his unqualified defense of Israeli aggression. The US Congress, with a handful of courageous dissenters, has endorsed this pogrom and revealed its hypocrisy.

The only winner coming out of this is Hamas, whose standing and credibility have been enhanced. The Israeli leadership has made a blunder of Bushian proportions.

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» RE: A Blunder of Bushian Proportions Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: A Blunder of Bushian Proportions Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: A Blunder of Bushian Proportions Posted by: Virgil H. Soule
» A problem of math.. Posted by: 2thepoint
Jewish British Lawmaker Likens Israel to Nazis ... Video
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 17, 2009 1:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jewish British Lawmaker Likens Israel to Nazis

SIR Gerald Kaufman, yesterday (Thu 15 Jan 2009) compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland. Kaufman, a member of the Jewish Labour movement linked to Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s ruling party, also called for an arms embargo against Israel.

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."

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» RE: Jewish psychoanalyst flip flopper Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Why not criticize Hamas instead Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: jews under assault in the UK? Posted by: sekfetenmet
» Hear, hear. Posted by: kepstein7777
One Sided mind Bending
Posted by: Zened on Jan 17, 2009 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has to be one of the most biased diatribes against the Israeli’s that I have read.

In your entire rant you have not once mentioned Israeli casualties. There are two sides in this war you know. Let us seek to apply your logic to both sides and beyond the so-called injured.

You seek to declare that using an Israeli method to determine shock, that the entire population of Gaza was injured. Interesting. Well let us extrapolate this a little further and apply it to the entire population of southern Israel and while we are at it Northern Israel. The Gazan civilians at least know that the Israelis are trying not to hit them; this is obvious. Otherwise the entire population of Gaza would have been annihilated in five minutes on day 1. The Israeli civilians however, know that the Gazans and their ‘army’ Hamas are targeting them. This is obvious because they say so. The Gazans have about 1.5 million people who have been under attack for less than a month. The Israelis have has several million under attack for over eight years. On your logic the Israelis are suffering more! Of course you do not mention it.

Let us extrapolate further to the area of proportionality. The Gazans have elected a political party that is openly dedicated to the murder of every last Jew in Israel. This is something that previous generations of Arabs have openly aspired to, but have failed to accomplish. Proportionately speaking, should not the Israelis also then return the policy equally by seeking to annihilate the Arabs? Let the best man win, so to speak.

Talk of disproportionate losses in Gaza is subterfuge for disappointment that there are not more Israeli deaths and injuries.

You declare that the Arab medics are the only heroes. Interesting. What about the Israeli soldiers who warn the attackers of their arrival thereby risking their own lives? You of course ignore this.

You mention the category of women and children is still being recognised. This is true, but you fail to mention that only the Israelis recognise it.

If the war is a catastrophe, perhaps those who initiated it should be blamed and not those in Israel who refuse to submit to Hamas, Hezbollah and Iranian calls for their annihilation.

Pogroms are attacks to cause ethnic cleansing. You would see casualties in the range of those experienced in Darfur if the Israelis were on a pogrom. Wait a minute! You show all this outrage at Jews in Gaza, but not one mention of the infinitely more serious situation of civilian casualties in Darfur, (or Afghanistan or Iraq for that matter).

I think this author has shown himself to be an archetypal Judeophobe.

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» What should gravely concern you Posted by: weathered
» RE: One Sided mind Bending Posted by: Oemissions
» RE: One Sided mind Bending Posted by: Quannah
» RE: One Sided mind Bending Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: One Sided mind Bending Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: One Sided mind Bending Posted by: particle
» Because you are an idiot, Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: One Sided mind Bending Posted by: blitzmesser
Animal Bating
Posted by: Zened on Jan 17, 2009 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sums up the Judeophobe mentality thank you:

Sister_Lauren scrawls:

"Once again proving AlterNet is one of the very BEST places for freedom of speech"
[The freedom to libel and defame Jews in this case]
"I'm not going to refute your stupid points one by one
you are crazy
You're a nut
and your logic sucks,
crash and burn"
[How charming]

You diminish your racism to mere stupid hate. You provide only insults, ranting and manage not to make even a single point in your 'post'.

What is worse a racist who takes one side of the argument (like the author or the blog) then pretends to be fair and balanced or the racist commentator who just flames with insults and has nothing to say?

My point Lauren dear; was that the article’s logic, in your eloquent words, ‘sucks’. I wrote employing the same distorted technique as a parody. However the pastiche seems to have flown over your head. Nevertheless you seem to be enamoured with places on the Internet where you can spew hatred for Jews or cheerlead those who do.

You must be very pleased with yourself.

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» RE: Dancing the Lions of Zion Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Animal Bating Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: Animal Bating Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Animal Bating Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Well said Zened Posted by: IPF
Same ole genocidal murderers and den of theives
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Jan 17, 2009 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are those taxes for the rich Congress? Do they dream of themseleves being billionaires after office? Want-a-be-rich?

Whose going to pay for the debt and wars for Empire? Those who profit are the elite billionaires.

Self interested representatives should not be the people's representatives.

They want to pass children's health care. What about the rest of us? Is this Fascist or what?

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Lauren comment on Bushian (haha)
Posted by: Zened on Jan 17, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More gems from Sister_Lauren:

“A Blunder of Bushian [sic] Proportions does not stop it from being genocide and a holocaust.”

This is typical of racists against Israel. As soon as they defend themselves against a population dedicated openly to the murder of every last man woman and child people libel and defame them by accusations of genocide and holocaust.

What would you call it if the Israelis really took off the gloves and dropped nuclear weapons on the Arabs dedicated to their murder?

You would be lost for words wouldn’t you? As your hyperbole used to falsely accuse them now would have exhausted your vocabulary.

Genocide and Holocaust are something very few peoples have experienced. The Jews are one of the remaining few people’s who have done. Judeophobics seek to further injure Jews by describing their attempt to defend their country in the same terms as the NAZI mass murder of over six million of them in gas chambers. As you have a problem with maths: Less than 2000 Gazans have been killed in this war over fifty per cent are illegal combatants hiding amongst their own civilian population. Hamas and other Arab terror armies have killed more than 2000 Jews. You need to show the death of millions of people (and over one third of an entire ethnic group, people or nation) for it to be called either genocide or a holocaust.

Let us not forget it is the Arabs who refuse to accept the small Jewish State and call for its annihilation not the other way around.

Your hyperbole magnifies your stupidity and lack of understanding. You actually say:

When I first saw the phosphorous bombs, I didn't realize what they were. It looked like the star of Bethlehem returning to the middle east as a sign of the return of Jesus!

You sound like you are a sandwich-short-of-a-picnic. So you worship baby Jesus? Do you not find it ironic that you worship a guy who came from a people (nation) that you are so vehemently writing about with bile, libel and hatred?

Are you an oligophrenic?

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» RE: Lauren comment on Bushian (haha) Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: Lauren comment on Bushian (haha) Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» gisele Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: Zened's divorce from reality Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: "a sandwich-short-of-a-picnic" Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Women and children
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 17, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good catch. Another goodie from their bag of tricks, which contains timeless classics like the "right to defend itself", as though the Nazi regime had a right to "defend itself" against anybody in the Warsaw Ghetto who fought back...Or that Iran, Syria, etc. have been helping Hamas, as if Israel has been buying and building all of its own bombs without help from the US.

More than most, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been a war of words, with the US and Israel manufacturing verbal BS as quick as the US ships money and weapons to Israel. This time around, progressive elements have been doing a good job of cutting through the crap and telling it like it is, without hedging their words out of fear of being accused of anti-semitism or palling around with terrorists.

Of course, Israel has been doing a hell of a job of cutting through their own crap, haven't they? Unfortunately, it's been at the expense of Gaza's people, infrastructure, etc.

Also unfortunate is that the ever-growing contradictions between their rhetoric of self-defense and their ever-growing list of atrocities doesn't seem to be making a dent in US public opinion, or the rest of the world's lack of courage to condemn Israel's actions in no uncertain terms. The word from Europe, the UN, and others who should know better is still along the lines of "Can't we all get along?", as if the average Palestinian has the energy, political power, firepower, or any sense of faith in a peace process to do anything after being starved, kicked around, occupied, bulldozed, and bombed for most of their lives.

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» RE: "Can't we all get along?" Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Women and children Posted by: iris89
» RE: Iris89 the troll Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Iris... please... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Just block her! Posted by: Tombo
» The Reality Posted by: iris89
» RE: Iris... please... Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: Women and children Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: Women and children Posted by: BrianOfNairobi
Pretty sad
Posted by: beandang on Jan 17, 2009 7:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think those stupid Israelis may be bigger War Criminals than Bush himself!

RT
Privacy Center

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» RE: Pretty sad Posted by: iris89
» RE: Pretty sad, back at ya! Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Pretty sad Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: Pretty sad Posted by: BrianOfNairobi
The Cry of the Family Is the Same
Posted by: titusoye on Jan 17, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am often perturbed at the different ways people view situations, particularly the ongoing deadly conflicts in Gaza. I often thought, why can't people reason that "What they give Is What they get (WYGWYT). How can you give violence and expect to get peace? How can you justify the claim that your pain is greater than mine? Won't you cry for your family the way I cry for mine? From Dafur to Gaza, from Jerusalem to Tripoli, From Bhagdad to Chicago, the cry of the family is the same. (My sympathies go to Dr. Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish). May be you don't value or have no value at all for your family. Is it because I chose not to complain aloud? Or is it because I sometimes compromise in order to reduce my losses, but you always expose yourself to more risks and at the shout louder? Let the Hamas show the world what they have done to protect their people? The big and vocal men of Hamas are everywhere. Let all of us who have a feeling for the Gazans ask them the question "What have you done to protect your people - the Gazan civilians?" Is it by hiding and taking covers in bunkers or by living in exile? And exposing the civilians unprotected? What has Hamas done to protect the innocent civilians. Let them tell us. We want to know. And because we are human beings, with an affinity for both the Palestinians and the Israelis, we demand an answer from Hamas.

Humanity has used war as an ideology for 5,000 years. It has not changed our situation one bit. Why don't we try peace as an ideology.

I may get a fatwah on my head for this, particularly from a people blinded to the truth and realities by an ideology helpful to nobody but useless to humanity. Many people around the have received similar fatwahs for making a similar observation.

The Arab world covers more than one-third of the earth. Why don't they want Israel to have a piece of homeland?

All African countries, without an exception, are a homeland to people of diverse nationilities (ethnicities you will say), cultures and races. Whether the Africans like it or not they have to live together, and in peace of course! If the Africans failed to mediate their differences and sources of conflicts, they will only continue to short-change themselves, no matter their ideologies or foreign powers backing them. Are the Palestinians ready for a similar approach?

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» RE: Iris89 the spammer Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Iris89 the spammer Posted by: iris89
» RE: Iris89 the spammer Posted by: Tombo
» RE: Iris89 the spammer Posted by: IPF
TRUE PEACE THE ONLY ANSWER IN GAZA
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 17, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FIRST, Some exaggerate the number of injuries in Gaza by claiming 1.5 million when Gaza only has about 1.5 million inhabitants.

SECOND, The Gazans are totally responsible for their present condition. They
keep firing rockets and mortars at Israel and full well know this will bring misery on them such as bad humanitarian conditions it will creates? Is it some kind of irrational insane self induced flagellations. It just does NOT make sense.

Yes, without question, the Hebrews - Israel's - incursion into Gaza is distressing and many Arabs express rage about it; but this reminds us that there should have been equal rage against the Gazans' continuous rocket attacks against the Hebrews - Israel. One can only imagine the response in London, Paris, or Los Angeles if rocket attacks were daily occurrences.

THIRD, As I told Islamic Tube, There are many people needing aid in the world today, especially the poor indian children in Guatemala and the poor Africans in Durfar, but the people in Gaza brought the problem on themselves by launching rockets at their neighbor instead of being neighborly and showing neighbor love as we all should per Matthew 5:43-45, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). Asking for aid for the Gazans is NOT reasonable as it is like being asked to help a man or keeps hitting his head into a concrete wall - he and the Gazans are totally responsible for their own missery, now let them accept that responsibility and send aid to those who need it and ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CONDITION.

FOURTH, What is needed in the Middle East - Gaza and elsewhere - is PEACE, NOT truces or cease fires. Anything less than PEACE is just a revolving door to continuous attacks and warfare. One can say that, Yes, without question, the Hebrews - Israel's - incursion into Gaza is distressing and many Arabs - Ishmaelites [[of which I am one, but a reasonable and objective one.]] - express rage about it.

To learn a lot more, go to,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

If you wish to discuss and/or learn more, PM me on this forum.

Iris89

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» Good Idea Posted by: IPF
» RE: Iris Posted by: Quannah
» Morally Equal??? Posted by: gellero1
» Gazans are totally responsible? Posted by: chief of okeefe
US suspends munitions delivery to Israel
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Jan 17, 2009 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US suspends munitions delivery to Israel David Pallister guardian.co.uk, Thursday 15 January 2009

The Pentagon has suspended the delivery of a shipload of munitions to Israel after international concern that it could be used by Israeli forces in Gaza.

The German-owned cargo vessel, Wehr Elbe, under charter by the US Military Sea lift Command, is currently in Greek waters with its transponder tracking turned off to prevent its location being identified.

Amnesty International has written to the foreign secretary, David Miliband, asking him to make "urgent approaches to the US, German and Greek governments to prevent this, or any pending or future shipments of weaponry until it can be verified that they will not be transferred to the Israeli Defence Forces or other parties to the conflict in Gaza.

"We urge you to ensure that no EU member state will allow their ports or other facilities to be used to transit these or any other weapons to any of the parties to this conflict."

The letter to Miliband, from Amnesty's director, Kate Allen, calls "for a comprehensive arms embargo on Israel, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons and munitions and other military equipment will not be used to commit serious violations of international humanitarian law".

Amnesty's Middle East and North Africa programme director, Malcolm Smart, said: "The last thing that is needed now is more weapons and munitions in the region, which is awash with arms that are being used in a manner which contravenes international law and is having a devastating effect on the civilian population in Gaza."

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» RE: Oh, the IRONY of it... Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Oh, the IRONY of it... Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Oh, the IRONY of it... Posted by: Gisele
The civilian punishment doctrine
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 17, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I understand the Israeli government's position, both Gaza and the remaining Native Palestinian West Bank towns are to be surrounded with guarded walls and fences.

During "wartime" or at random times, many buildings in the camps are wrecked, starting with the biggest buildings, either with bulldozers or with weaponry. Israeli law is written so that Palestinians generally receive no legal permission to rebuild wrecked buildings under any circumstances. I'm not sure whether Palestinians live in cities anymore, or in refugee camps.

Little or no water is to be allowed inside the camps. Streams are diverted. Ground water is sucked up from wells. Palestinian camps have no right to drill new wells.

Much less are the inhabitants allowed to work jobs outside the walls. Nor are raw materials and finished products allowed to be shipped in and out of these walls without regular disruption of industrial and agricultural timetables.

Ambulances are regularly detained at wall and fence crossings. At times huge mounds of dirt are dumped across checkpoint roads and guarded by Israeli soldiers to prevent removal.

Israelis have a long history of cutting down the olive groves of Palestinian farmers. They also have a long history of Israelis fencing off a Palestinian farmer's land, essentially claiming it as their own.

Occasionally the Israeli government throws someone out of the Palestinian camps, expels them from their own country.

What we have is a 60 year long nonviolent struggle, where 2 million Palestinians occupy their fathers' farms and houses, or occupy a tiny camp of land near to where their fathers' farms used to be, and in return the Israeli government keeps these protesters in poverty and in ill health.

The Israeli government position is that by punishing these people enough, by killing a few of them randomly, by wounding many more, and by starving the great majority of them of a productive livelihood, these people will voluntarily leave their camps and their country, and the Israeli people will then have a free and undisputed claim to the land of Israel for their own. The Israeli government position somewhat works. Many have left. Unfortunately over the decades the remainder of the Palestinians have repopulated the camps as fast as many have left, or have been thrown out.

Not all of the Palestinians are shooting.

Therefore, a method, tied inextricably with making peace, must be found whereby these humans in the camps must be allowed to live, and these humans must have a full set of civil rights. They must have the right to share the country's limited water for their own fields. They must have the right to own land and to build buildings without fear of confiscation. They must have the right to run businesses and to work without fear of disruption.

The Israeli government must treat each Palestinian as an individual. The philosophy of collective punishment for individual crimes must be ended. Accused lawbreakers should always have fair and open trials. Finally, Palestinians should be granted the right of free speech, which of course stops at another person's nose.

I live in the U.S. We have millions of Jews and quite a few hundred thousand people of Palestinian descent here, including some of the same people that Israel threw out. People have rights here. We have no doctrine of collective punishment, although many individual Muslims suffered from job discrimination after 9/11. And we have had no wars here. My apartment has no bullet holes. The police catch burglars and speeders. We have 200 year old buildings which might stand forever were it not for occasional electrical and chimney fires over the decades. Isn't this a standard of peace that Israel should yearn for?

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All war is a catastrophe
Posted by: Virgil H. Soule on Jan 17, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All war is a catastrophe and those who provoke it suffer the consequences. The Prophet Hosea (8:7) put it this way: For they sow the wind and they shall reap the whirlwind. That is what Hamas has done by firing their rockets at Israeli civilians. Now, they have a war on their hands with enormous fire-power directed their way. Civilian casualties on the Gaza side are inevitable.

The Allies' number-one goal in World War II was to destroy the political systems that provoked the war to begin with. Israel must have the same goal vis-a-vis Hamas.

Lest we forget, Israel and the PLO began a peace process more than ten years ago. Hamas and Hezbollah rejected the movement toward peace and have continued their hostility toward Israel. What is Israel to do in response?

War is like nausea: at some point one must give up to it, go to the bathroom, and vomit. At some point all control is lost and the result is misery.

The thing we must all fear is that some ayatollah will declare Muslim populations Martyrs for the cause of Islam and then ignite the holocaust that will incinerate them and us along with them. That is the number-one reason why Iran must not have nuclear weapons.

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» RE: All war is a catastrophe Posted by: BrianOfNairobi
» RE: All war is a catastrophe Posted by: sekfetenmet
Must See Documentary
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jan 17, 2009 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
52 mins. long. downloadable as well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= 1259454859593416473&hl=en

(close the gap before the numbers start when pasting)

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» RE: Must See Documentary Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Is G W Bush a Zionist fanatic?
Posted by: Garvagh on Jan 17, 2009 12:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bravo! Is it reasonable to regard G W Bush as a Zionist fanatic, encouraging the theft of Palestinian land, water and civil rights in the West Bank, and the continued operation of the vast open-air prison camp called Gaza? Or do we best see him as a stooge of the military-industrial complex and the Israeli militarists, raping the American taxpayer to support the continuing oppression of the Palestinians by the Israeles? Is Bush merely a chronic lying American politician, out to line his pockets and gain "glory" from helping to cause the needless violent deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the Middle East?

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» RE: Is G W Bush a Zionist fanatic? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Who cares!
Posted by: violawall on Jan 17, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I quit caring about the Gazans when I saw them jumping up and down in their streets with joy after the twin towers fell and 3,000 Americans died. Screw them!

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» RE: Who cares! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: violawall
» United Technologies Posted by: weathered
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: felipe
» LOL right Posted by: IPF
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: iris89
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: sunnywater
» I care Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: Who cares! Posted by: 2thepoint
soundoff
Posted by: soundoff on Jan 17, 2009 12:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I continually read the comments on Alternet regarding the Israeli strike into Gaza, and am appalled by the one-sided remarks made by each "news report," How the bloodthirsty Israelis are killing women and children.
This current idiocy started way back in 1948, when the UN and the world, in its compassion for the 6,000,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis, declared a sliver of land in the Middle East as a homeland for the Hebrews, which was their ancient and biblical homeland. This was approved by an overwhelming majority of the United Nations. This piece of land was to be a haven for the Jews of Europe and elsewhere, a place where they could live, raise their children, and enjoy freedom from persecution. This land was exactly 2% of the land, compared to 98% occupied by Arab states in the region.
From its very inception, Israel has had to fight wars against the Arabs, who have declared the "The Jews must be driven into the sea, killed, and
Arabs who fled the territory (on the warning by the Arabs that they would be killed if they remained in Israel)must be allowed to return to their homes. The Arabs have just one thought in mind, and that is to keep their populace so involved with hating Israel, that they forget the misery, destitution, ignorance, and regression that the Arab countries have foisted on their population. Keep them focused on hating Israel, and forget the hopelessness they are living in, fostered by their own leadership.
Where was all the world attention and outcry when, for the last 8 years, rockets have been flying into Israel from Gaza, Lebanon, and other neighboring Arab states, aimed at killing anything and anybody they could.
After Israel withdrew from Gaza, the Gazans elected Hamas as their government, knowing that their charter stated clearly that Israel must be obliterated, and all Jews killed, driven into the sea.
What nation could allow this without actions to protect their people?
Now the world press and politicians have erupted in condemnation of Israel for (they say) 1000 civilian deaths in Gaza, caused by the Israeli retaliation for the thousands of rockets aimed at whatever they could hit in Israel.These are figures that include the number of murderous Hamas terrorists were included in this body count, as civilians. . Where was the worlds' outcry when Israeli women and children were killed? Back on page 22 next to the want ads.
How long would Iran, or Syria,sit still and not answer rockets shot indiscriminately into their country? The demonstrations throughout Europe and other
nations condemning Israel for protecting their citizens are a demonstration of the Anti-Semitism that still poisons the world.The precautions that Israel has made to protect their citizens, such as controlling gateways into Israel from Gaza and Egypt, building walls as protection from Hamas kidnapping Israelis and infiltrating with suicide bombers to kill innocent civilians, have been touted as fencing in the Gazans. But they elected Hamas to be their government, and now are enjoying the results of their overwhelming stupidity and ignorance.
When the rockets stop coming into Israel, the gates will be opened, and perhaps, then, will some semblance of normal life return to all concerned.
I also notice that on Alternet, the anti-Israeli posts outnumber the pro-Israeli post at least 3 to 1. This can't be a true representation of opinion. Alternet, please be fair in presenting all sides of the situation. I appreciate the opportunity to voice my opinion.

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» RE: soundoff Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Thank you! Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: soundoff Posted by: shoshiw
» RE: soundoff Posted by: sfischo
» RE: Reflexive, simplistic diatribes Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Why are we so suprised? Look at the history
Posted by: Baenz on Jan 17, 2009 2:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the onset, Israel was violent, aggressive and didn't care about legality.

Those in charge already knew then what was in the coming for the Palestinians. And today they cry ... terrorist!

Exerpts from the UN-GA 1949 (A/PV.207, 11 May 1949), Arguments against the acceptance of Israel into the UN:

„ ... that it had been suggested once before that a matter connected with the Palestine question, namely, the General Assembly's decision on partition, should be submitted to the International Court of Justice.[1/ See A/AC14/32, resolution I.] On that occasion, too, recourse to the International Court had been refused.[2/ See Official Records of the second session of the General Assembly, Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian question, 32nd meeting.] ... reiterated his request that the General Assembly should consult the International Court of Justice on the matter of the Security Council's recommendation and remarked that, by rejecting that request, the Assembly would tacitly admit that its course of action was illegal.

...

“The case before the Assembly was unique, because never before in history had the forcible invasion of a country and the expulsion of its original inhabitants been welcomed by countries professing their attachment to justice and peace. It would not be a happy omen for the United Nations if it were to reward aggression by approval and admit to membership a Government which had not only disregarded the wishes of the United Nations, but had also indicated its intention to continue to do so.”


“The responsibility for the life or death of hundreds of thousands of Arabs rested with those representatives who contemplated casting their votes in favour of the admission of the applicant State. History would not judge them lightly. It would not take into account the political pretexts or private excuses which they offered in justification of their action. History would record that they had sacrificed the life of a whole population and surrendered a land and a city for which their own ancestors had fought and died, for the sake of political advantage conceived in the narrowest and least moral form; that they had erected a State by force and called it peace-loving; that they had rewarded violence with praise and forgotten its victims.”

...

“If the Western Christian world failed to take advantage of the opportunity offered by the consent of the Moslems to live in peace, equality and freedom with the Christians and Jews in Jerusalem under an international regime, history would record another tragedy which could have been avoided.”

...

“Power politics had overshadowed all other considerations in determining the evolution of the Palestine problem. Palestine had been made an instrument for bargaining, in total disregard of the rights of its people. Since the outbreak of the First World War, its history had been characterized by a singular lack of justice and many shocking contradictions.

“At that time, the people of Palestine had contributed to the war effort together with the peoples of the other Arab countries, and had looked forward to the fulfilment of their inherent rights of independence and selfdetermination. As a result of secret manoeuvres, however, those legitimate rights had been infringed, first by the proclamation of the illegal Balfour Declaration and then by the imposition of the Mandate in contravention of the provisions of Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant.”

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ancient homelands?
Posted by: chance garden on Jan 17, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time we give up on the false idea of ancient homelands.

When people kill each other over land and resources the villiany is everywhere. The fact that people strike back at attempts to kill them over land and power issues does not grant the right to murder more people over the same issues!

Agression is agression and murder is murder and the israel military is as guilty as the rest of the brutal regimes of history.

Humans belong to the land, the land does not belong to us. It is a sick idea to believe that the gods "give" land to their selected favorites. The corruption of the idea of land ownership by states is at the root of the murders.

Noone owns the land...the whole earth is merely occupied by futile humans who somehow believe that they own a piece of the earth...How preposturous does it get?

Also, the whole idea that WE are jews or palestinians or americans or canadians is also absurd. We are simply creatures who one day wake into consciousness and then die and that death is final, period, end of story.

Just because people or your parents tell you that you are a jew or an american or a persian, etc, don't believe them. We are nothing of the sort.

To believe that we have a historical connection to an abstraction such as a state or religion is complete non-sense.

Ideas like these only serve to divide the creatures of the earth and cause them to believe that they are different from each other.

There are no gods, and someday soon they idea of the state shall be understood to be a lame idea as well...It is time for jews to refuse to be jews, palestinians refuse to be palestinians, muslims refuse to be muslim, christians refuse to be christians, canadians refuse to be canadians, and americans to refuse to be americans, etc.

Only when we stop beleiving in ideas that keep us separated can we begin to end the tragedy of global murderous regimes of politico/religio/resource warlords and the states that follow them.

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An illegal state, a rogue state, a failed state...
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi on Jan 17, 2009 5:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and a grave danger to the rest of the world. Israel is even more oppressive than apartheid South Africa ever was. Its treatment of the native Palestinians is beyond human comprehension.

South Africa fell due to the African people's struggle and the boycott by the international community. Israel survives only because of its control and manipulation of US politicians, through financial incentives/corruption. Israel, in actual fact, controls and influences US foreign policy and the US Congress... and the presidents (including Obama).

99 Senators voted for the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.... what an absolute disgrace. The USA is a joke superpower, it does not control its own destiny. The USA is a pathetic but obedient dog on a very tight Israeli lead. US politicians are traitors to their country and, more importantly, to their people.

But the main factor that keeps the compliant and obedient USA serving the interests of an aggressive Israel is the sheer ignorance of the American people. They are, without doubt, the most ignorant people to walk upon God's earth.

They blindly support the genocidal wars of the so-called Jewish state upon their Muslim amd Christian neighbours. The American people are the main players in world politics... if only they knew. The destiny of the world is in their hands, but as long as they support the Biblical abomination that is the state of Israel, then they will stand, cocooned in their ignorance, against the rest of the world.... who by the way are far more knowledgable about the ways of the Zionists.

Israel's illegal tenancy in Palestine is slowly but surely coming to an end, as their barbarism against humanity is not only coming to light but also becoming more frequent and more savage.

Take care and God Bless... and open your eyes... wide.

Tiocfaidh ár lá !

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Peace
Posted by: JefffromCA on Jan 17, 2009 7:38 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will not happen until Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel.

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» RE: Peace Posted by: weathered
» RE: biggest egos on the globe Posted by: Sister_Lauren
If we the loser electorate had allowed Ralph Nader two terms as president, none of this would be
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Jan 17, 2009 8:52 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
happening. But hey, you all just voted for another 4 years of this mess, Democrat or Republican.

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Next it'll be 8 million deaths and 50 million injured
Posted by: IPF on Jan 17, 2009 11:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a crock of crap! Right up there with the 1,500,000 Iraqi dead myth. Just more propaganda to shore up the terrorists - and of course ALTERCRAP publishes it.

How gullible can people get anyway?

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» RE: Next it'll be all of us Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Ummmmmmmmmmm
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 18, 2009 2:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You want I should draw you a picture, boobie?


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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How often do we have to read this Zionist myths again?
Posted by: Baenz on Jan 18, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(In addition to the information provided by mjabele)

"The Jews bought the land in Palestine"

I don’t recall how many times I’ve heard this joke – I still don’t think it’s a good one.

Let’s see: in 1945 the legally bought land by the Jews was 7 % and at the time of the foundation of the State of Israel it was 12,5%.

These are the information which can be found at the Applied Research Institute in Jerusalem as well as in “Jewish Villages in Israel", Jerusalem, 1949, pp.xxi-xxii.)

The question now is: who is lying? The Zionist propaganda machinery or the orderly bureaucratic archives?

~*~*~

"Slowly but surely the palestinians have forced the Jew's hand"

Why is it that they cannot come up with something new - or even meaningful - for a change? We hear this same argument since decades! Why can the Zionist NEVER take responsibility for their actions?

"We hate those P.L.O. people because they make us kill Arab children." (Yitzhak Shamir, Time, January 30, 1989)

Except for the (interchangeable) names = PLO, Hamas, Hezballah, nothing has changed since then ... mentally bankrupt argument. Oh wait - one aspect has been added: it's either Syria, Iran or before that Iraq who are supporting these terrorists! And if this doesn't work then it's the guy in the cave with the labtop ...

~*~*~

What were the findings of the King Crane Commission in 1919?

“The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor [in other words: they were not anti Semites] ... The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase.”

"If the principle of self-determination is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine’s population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine - nearly nine-tenths of the whole - are emphatically against the entire Zionist program. To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted. No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program. The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a ’right’ to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered."

~*~*~

But naturally it's all the faults and evil doings of the Arabs ... I know.

B.

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So, this isn't ethnic cleansins?
Posted by: Maxemum on Jan 18, 2009 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the pictures folks. Watch the video. Read the stories at the link from the world media. How can our elected leaders pass laws supporting this? How many of our leaders have dual citizenships?

It's time to wake up my fellow countrymen and women.


http: // www.elfarra. org /gallery / gaza. htm

http: // www.youtube. com / watch?v=OLUJ4fF2HN4&eurl=http: // whatreallyhappened. com/node?page=1

http: // whatreallyhappened. com/

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British cabinet member speaks of genocide
Posted by: Maxemum on Jan 18, 2009 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A voice in the darkness from one who has experienced genocide firsthand.

http: // www.youtube. com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&eurl=http: //whatreallyhappened. com/

whatreallyhappened . com

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It seems Europa - or part thereof - is waking up from it's induced slumber
Posted by: Baenz on Jan 18, 2009 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Growing outrage at the killings in Gaza
The Guardian, Friday 16 January 2009

The massacres in Gaza are the latest phase of a war that Israel has been waging against the people of Palestine for more than 60 years. The goal of this war has never changed: to use overwhelming military power to eradicate the Palestinians as a political force, one capable of resisting Israel's ongoing appropriation of their land and resources. Israel's war against the Palestinians has turned Gaza and the West Bank into a pair of gigantic political prisons. There is nothing symmetrical about this war in terms of principles, tactics or consequences. Israel is responsible for launching and intensifying it, and for ending the most recent lull in hostilities.

Israel must lose. It is not enough to call for another ceasefire, or more humanitarian assistance. It is not enough to urge the renewal of dialogue and to acknowledge the concerns and suffering of both sides. If we believe in the principle of democratic self-determination, if we affirm the right to resist military aggression and colonial occupation, then we are obliged to take sides... against Israel, and with the people of Gaza and the West Bank.

We must do what we can to stop Israel from winning its war. Israel must accept that its security depends on justice and peaceful coexistence with its neighbours, and not upon the criminal use of force.

We believe Israel should immediately and unconditionally end its assault on Gaza, end the occupation of the West Bank, and abandon all claims to possess or control territory beyond its 1967 borders. We call on the British government and the British people to take all feasible steps to oblige Israel to comply with these demands, starting with a programme of boycott, divestment and sanctions.

Many of the names are jewish - anti Semites in other words

B.

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Free Free Palestine - On The Evidence of This Protest in London
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 18, 2009 11:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The UK Police are on the same side as the Protesters

Youtube Video From a Right Wing Perspective - Direct Link Won't Work

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If you ever doubted that US complicity is a defining feature
Posted by: fanny666 on Jan 18, 2009 1:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take a look at the very recent time-line of this invasion.

The day that Israel broke the cease-fire was November 4, our election day, when the US media was occupied.

And now, Israel agrees to a cease-fire one day before a new and untested president takes office. These things are not coincidences.

I could make the case that the US role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the single biggest reason we are hated by poor people around the world. As activists, we should be pressuring Obama to change the nature of our relationship with Israel and Palestine. Because our present policies are bad for US, bad for Palestinians, and bad for Israelis.

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» RE: And how popular is Cheney today? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
The “reason” for flattening Gaza, killing, injuring and traumatising its civilians
Posted by: Baenz on Jan 18, 2009 2:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2000, no mortars or rockets were launched
No Israeli casualties
Pal deaths 2000:*: 327

2001, 245 mortars and 4 rockets
St. Sgt. Barak Madmon, on duty in Kfar Darom, was killed.
Pal. deaths 2001: 577

2002, 257 mortars and 35 rockets
No casualties
Pal. deaths 2002: 1,068

2003, 265 mortars and 155 rockets
5 civilians were killed (3 Jews and 2 Moslems)
Sgt. Michael Chizik was killed in an outpost in Gush Katif, Gaza
Pal. deaths 2003: 664

2004, 876 mortars and 281 rockets
6 civilians were killed (1 chin. worker, 3 Jews and 2 Moslems)
Pal. deaths: 2004: 881

2005, 238 mortars and 179 rockets
1 civilian (thai-worker) was killed
Pal. deaths 2005: 255

2006, 22 mortars and 946 rockets
4 civilians were killed (1 Jew and 3 Moslem),
Pal. deaths 2006: 631

2007, 1,263 mortars and 1,049 rockets
2 civilians were killed (Jews)
Pal. deaths 2007: 343

* Pal. deaths figures don’t distinguish between Christians and Moslems

(Source for mortars und rockets: IL Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center)
(Source for pal. deaths: PCRS)

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» Just have a look here! Posted by: Baenz
What does the peace camp say in Israel?
Posted by: Baenz on Jan 18, 2009 3:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please read this article by Uri Avnery, Gush Shalom:

The Boss Has Gone Mad

...

"The smoke from Lebanon War II is hanging over the Gaza war. Everybody in Israel swore to learn its lessons. And the main lesson was: not to risk the life of even one single soldier. A war without casualties (on our side). The method: to use the overwhelming firepower of our army to pulverize everything standing in its way and to kill everybody moving in the area. To kill not only the fighters on the other side, but every human being who might possibly turn out to harbor hostile intentions, even if they are obviously an ambulance attendant, a driver in a food convoy or a doctor saving lives. To destroy every building from which our troops could conceivably be shot at – even a school full of refugees, the sick and the wounded. To bomb and shell whole neighborhoods, buildings, mosques, schools, UN food convoys, even ruins under which the injured are buried.

The media devoted several hours to the fall of a Qassam missile on a home in Ashkelon, in which three residents suffered from shock, and did not waste many words on the forty women and children killed in a UN school, from which “we were shot at” – an assertion that was quickly exposed as a blatant lie.

The firepower was also used to sow terror – shelling everything from a hospital to a vast UN food depot, from a press vantage point to the mosques. The standard pretext: “we were shot at from there”.

This would have been impossible, had not the whole country been infected with blunted sensitivities. People are no longer shocked by the sight of a mutilated baby, nor by children left for days with the corpse of their mother, because the army did not let them leave their ruined home. It seems that almost nobody cares anymore: not the soldiers, not the pilots, not the media people, not the politicians, not the generals. A moral insanity, whose primary exponent is Ehud Barak. Though even he may be upstaged by Tzipi Livni, who smiled while talking about the ghastly events.

Even Heinrich Heine could not have imagined that.

THE LAST DAYS were dominated by the “Obama effect”."

...

Read the whole article if you're interested - it's worth it. And as long as the world has people like Uri Avnery and Rabbi Ackerman (from the Rabbis for Human Rights) there is still hope, that the Zionist monster might disappear and the Jewish neighbour who happens to be a nice guy re-appears.

B.

Read the whole article on http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en

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Ya know...
Posted by: Elmowilcox on Jan 19, 2009 12:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To call this a two sided story is to call a football game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and some random junior varsity softball team a balanced game. They may both be playing sports, even on the same field, but at two very different and distinguishable levels.

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Look at the Facts
Posted by: Jim Shaw on Jan 19, 2009 12:26 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the article points out, Israel has cynically starved and impoverished the Gazan population since they abandoned their illegal settlements in that territory. Even before the recent campaign was launched, the UN reported a malnutrition rate of 75% and an unemployment rate of 49% in Gaza.

Israel has illegally maintained control of Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters. It has not only exercised control of its own land border with Gaza, but the Gazan side of the border with Egypt. All of this is contrary to international law.

Is it any wonder that, in their frustration, some Gazans have lashed out?

Israel claims to be defending itself from rockets launched by Hamas, and that Hamas violated the cease-fire, leaving them no choice but to attack the territory.

Let’s look at the cease-fire: From its commencement on June 19th until November 4th, when the Israelis murdered six Gazans, how many Israelis were killed by rocket fire coming out of Gaza? Zero. How many Israelis were seriously injured by rockets from Gaza? Zero. The first Israeli to be killed by a Gazan rocket since June 19th was struck down on December 27th, the same day that Israel launched its offensive, killing at least 225 that day, and of course, well over a thousand before they were finished, in addition to all the injuries and destruction of property.

Let’s look at the timing of the Israeli actions: Israel just happened to kill six Palestinians on the day of the most eagerly anticipated U.S. presidential election in many years. They launched their bombing of Gaza late in the transition period between the two administrations, while the extraordinarily supportive Bush was still in charge, and when it would be awkward for Obama to speak out (if he had any inclination to do so). They left themselves just enough time to inflict massive punishment on Gaza and bring the massacre to a close before the inauguration on January 20th.

Israel’s supporters constantly point out that Hamas doesn’t recognize Israel’s right to exist. What they don’t mention is that Israel has never recognized the Palestinian’s right to their own state, and has done everything in its power to subvert the peace process, including incitement of civil war between Hamas and Fatah, constantly expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank, extrajudicial murder, and rampant violations of Palestinian civil rights. Odd behavior for a country that seeks peace.

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languange designed to divide
Posted by: Cameo on Jan 19, 2009 12:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is important to think about the language used by the war mongers and the press to avoid referring to us as human beings:
"troop" equals one person in the army.
"civilians" are non-military personnel and are assumed innocent.
"collateral damage" equals dead civilians.
"women and children" is a special epithet used to show weakness in search of pity.

One of my biggest pet peeves is the category "womenandchildren". It says that women are not full fledged adults, they are in the same category as children.

All these words divide humanity into categories, and the value of a person's life depends upon which category she or he is placed in.

I am not arguing that there isn't something special in children to be protected. It is terrible that all our children are growing up on a war-riddled earth.
I am arguing that 1. women are adults, not children. 2. all lives have equal value. and 3. It is increasingly difficult to determine who is innocent and who is guilty in warfare. For example, all US civilians reap the benefits of the actions of our military. IF we knowingly send our troops to fight in an unjust war, are we innocent? More innocent than the 18yo soldiers who keep their commitment to obey the orders of their commander?

The new ways in which war is conducted (it is no longer two armies marching (more or less) strait at each other), combined with advances in human thinking (women are adults equal to men; race/religion doesn't directly correlate to intelligence or value; all people have a right to liberty, not just white citizens of "western" countries...) require that we examine the language we rely upon to analyze war and its effects.

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The IDF Referred to as, "The Soliders of Light."
Posted by: Triumph on Jan 19, 2009 5:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The absolute evil that Israel and its supporters have perpetrated over, and over, under the guise of being, "God's chosen," is sickening. However I do believe in karma and Divine justice.

January 18, 2009

Israeli FM confronted at National Press Club
Journalists' microphones turned off when Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni challenged in Washington


Soldiers' mother Stop Gaza doctor's propaganda

Quotes of support by friends of Israel.

The Woman protesting in the crowd

... Is absolutely right.

Palestinians Starving? Oh this is rich! Just look at this doctor's fat face. The same like the so called "Canadian" Palestinians looked like when they returned to Canada a few days ago...They were not the faces of hungry People, yet, as soon as they saw a camera, then it's "no water, no food, no electricity, no fuel", the Israelis are committing genocide" they say!!

The news media are sickening as well; I barely pay attention these days. Let the soldiers DO THEIR JOB!! And if the “good doctor” house is hit even if he has his three daughters inside, so be it. That house was targeted for a reason

Ginette , Toronto, Canada (01.17.09)

6. This doctor belongs in Gaza where he can help the murderers he and his fellow Gazans elected to office. God shows no mercy to those who have shown no mercy, so why is Israel showing mercy to Gazans in Israeli hospitals when this doctor is not even a prisoner of war. His dead children went to be with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Moses, David, and Yeshua. This doctor should be thanking the Lord for His mercy to children who because of their parents' unbelief can only go to heaven if they die young. It was God's favor to this Gazan physician that caused the death of his three daughters who would have gone to hell if allowed to grow up as Muslims in a religion that denies the God of Abraham. He should be kissing the feet of the IDF who killed his daughters because the daughters are comforted and are in Paradise because of their young age. That is reality, pal.

Rivkah (01.17.09)

3. Job in Canada?

Whike I sympathize and feel his grief at loosing his daughters, I sincerely doubt he would have a job in Canada, as a doctor.
Norms here are really strict.

Pierre , Canada (01.17.09)

2. I doubt if the media realizes ....

But most of us are fed up with propaganda & sympathy stories about Palestinians.
The media is seriously out of touch with how the vast majority of Israelis think.

Terry , Eilat, Israel (01.17.09

1. Poor man. This shows Hamas' cynical use of civilians.

I hope his wounded kids will recover. This is a human tragedy first, but we must understand that there are some leaders in the Arab world that profit from tragedies like this.

Grigorius (01.17.09)

9. This mother was right!

The media makes all the Palestinians to be the victims and Israel the aggressors! Pure propaganda!

Why isnt this doctor condemning Hamass for creating this situation. If he really wants peace why doesnt he blame the Islamic extremists that continually destroy any hope of peace? Why doesnt he condemn the Hamass Charter? The IDF did not fire at his house for no reason! Either missiles were launched from next to it or the IDF had other information to cause them to fire at it. The IDF doesnt fire blindly like Hamass!

JJ3JAY, Israel

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But didn't you hear the news? Hamas has proclaimed they won!
Posted by: slugsucker on Jan 20, 2009 4:34 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1.5 million injured Gazans is a victory in their eyes! Yay! Piles of rubble, and dead and maimed bodies are just signs of success to them! Woohoo! I suppose they can't wait for their next military victory! Fingers just itching to send off the next round of Qassams coming through the tunnels from the Sinai.

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Excerpts from site link below
Posted by: slugsucker on Jan 20, 2009 5:13 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
• Not one shred of gratitude from any known Muslim leader or group for US & Europe's rescuing of Bosnian Muslims in the 1990's.
• Not one thank you from any known Muslim leader or organization for US saving of Somali Muslims in the 1990's.
• Virtually all minorities are persecuted in the dsMuslim world: Christians, Druze, Kurds, Ahwazi Arabs, Marsh Arabs, Jews, Berbers, non-Arab Africans in the Sudan [by racist Arab militias in cooperation with Sudanese Islamic government], non-Arab Africans in Mauritania, Nubians, Copts, Assyrians, Maronites, Chinese in Indonesia, etc.
• Did one single Muslim cleric come up and say that the Koranic term 'apes & pigs', the Islamists call the non Muslims, are not to be followed?
• While [not only most Jews or even most Israelis, but even] most Zionist Jews sympathize with Arab 'Palestinian' fallen unintentionally in the war on terror, almost all Arabs & Muslims demonize Israeli victims of intentional Arab-Muslims violent crimes against humanity.
• Arabs live in Israel more freely [women voting, real free speech, etc.] than in all of their own regimes, and are treated often as first class citizens ahead of Israeli Jews (courts, land issues, etc.), Jews, however, are either not allowed to live in certain Arab countries [Syria even denies any entry for a Jew,] or persecuted in most Arab countries.
• Which Arab Muslim nation is exempt of the epidemic of criminal 'honor killing'?
• If Pro terror Muslim organizations like CAIR [ http://anti-cair-net.org ] are defined as "moderate", what would one call their mainstream?
• Do you know of any Muslim group that has joined the efforts of Christian/Jewish action to prevent the racist genocide by Arab Muslims in Sudan upon native black Muslims?
• Has any Arab media issued an apology for inciting the bloody "intifada" [2000] via lying images, such as of Muhammad Al dura, who was really killed by Arabs? Or has anyone of them run the true version of the story?
• How many Arabs or Muslims, have declared openly that the 'Palestinian' Arab Muslim practice of using children as human bombs and as human shields in their war against Israeli civilians, is totally immoral?
• Not one Muslim group has declared that a collective boycott of an entire nation such as Denmark (2006, because they were upset with a few cartoonists that happened to be Danes) is racism.
• While Arab Muslim leaders chased out, in 1948, most of the "Palestinian" refugees, while bragging about and promising "victory" & ethnic cleansing of the Jews out of Israel, they put them in camps and never let Israel improve the conditions, in order to use them as pawns in their war against the non Arab, non Muslim "island" in their neighborhood, i.e. Israel.
• Most Muslims whitewash or ignore the facsistic Muslims' torture and cold blooded murder of innocent people that just happened to be Jewish, like: Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg, Ilan Halimi.
• Did you hear one mainstream Arab Muslim leader or group denouncing the Islamic Hitler of Iran's calls for annihilation of an entire nation, calling for a new Holocaust while denying the previous one and his calls for death to: US & the UK? [he made a tour (May-2006) among "moderate" Muslim nations that only cheered him on.]
• Not one of the few courageous Muslims that speak out for real overall reform, against disliking Westerners, for sympathy for Israel, and against [all] Muslims regimes' crimes on their own people, have been shielded by any major Muslim organization (including CAIR - http://anti-cair-net.org), or from the menace of death threats (Fatwas) by Muslim clerics.

Comparison Maps
linked text

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» RE: xcerpts from site link below Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Your posts contain zero moral value Posted by: Defenestrator
Let me address your points, slugsucker
Posted by: Baenz on Jan 22, 2009 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all I remember we’re discussing Israel and it’s continuous occupation of Palestinian land as well as its continuous aggression against the people of Palestine as well as against the neighbouring countries and not the problems of the world. Having said that --- I guess your points would be the “other side of the coin” and it sure is OK and worth to address them in depth.

Have a look at the map of Europe and tell me how big Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Monaco, Belgium or San Marino is in comparison to the other countries. Following your argument which you imply by presenting a map of the Middle East region they should all get a bigger piece of the cake too …??!! Would it be right by human and international law if they would, therefore, occupy, kill and/or expel some of their neighbours … and on top of it shout “we are the victims”??

(It seems to me you have a conflict – would you like to criticize the Arabs or Islam? Or both? Just for the records – the Arabs are one of the minorities within the Muslim communities. So which one is causing your anger?)

All this not withstanding let me address some of your “worries”:

1. Bosnia and Somalia: Please look up the histories of these “rescues” and you’ll easily find out the reasons for these humane actions. But especially the last rescue ops by the US in Somalia. From the US point of interest though it was a success. Whatever little civil and social infrastructure was re-built by the regime (not that I liked them but fair is fair) has been destroyed again and the country is one more time submerged in chaos. Job well done!

2. Persecution: Please specify – do you want to make it an ethnic argument or a religious one? Or would you rather stick to the truth of the matter and admit that it is nothing else but power and politics? Just to pick one or two of your points for the sake of the argument – the Kurds are not just persecuted but fought against viciously because they want their independent state. Something – among others – the US paid lip service to for a while and then dropped it from the agenda. It was only “interesting” as long as Saddam Hussein was the villain. And to combat the Turkish Kurds Ankara got the green light for that – guess by whom???? One could think that the desperate wish for Freedom and the right to exist within its own state would be absolutely protected by the West, wouldn’t you say so?

Christians (Copts and Maronites are Christians too) are so persecuted that Iraq’s most famous one was the Foreign Minister, Tariq Aziz. Egypt for that matter has the families of Boutros Ghali (ex UN Secr Gen); his nephew is at present the Finance Minister. Another famous and influential family is the Saweeris; another example of “discrimination” is Pope Shennouda III who was a General in the Army before he became the Coptic Pope ... and so on and so forth. Egypt has – to hold the comparison with Israel – in its cabinet 2 Ministers of Coptic faith and 1 Minister of Jewish descent (it used to be 2 but one retired 2 years ago). Nota Bene: the Coptic population is 6 % and the Jewish less than 1 %. Whereas Israel’s cabinet is purely Jewish ignoring the fact that it has a population of 23% Israeli Christians and Muslims … did you ever hear anyone picking on this bone?? On top of it, the Coptic Christmas (January 7) is an official State holiday in Egypt. I trust that this will fully “support” your claim ... of rigorous oppression?

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» "Islamic" Hitler?! (End) Posted by: Baenz
Let The Truth Be Known - STOP The Mis-Information
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 26, 2009 4:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I posted to a post I made elsewhere that I received many unwarranted negative comments, I want the truth to be known. Also, I am challenging anyone as shown below to even show one thing I am presenting is in error.

Many uninformed ones and/or ones that do NOT want to know the truth have:

[1] Been calling me names and making false accusations about me.

[2] Telling outright untruths about factual matters to favor those in the WRONG, the Gazans

[3] Have been telling me I do not know what I am speaking about – however, I know the subject of WRONGLY occupied land better for sure than any other poster.

[4] Most have failed to be objective and to call a ‘spade a spade’ and be honest.

Well I have just concluded an exhaustive study of occupied lands with major emphasis on Palestine along with a historical narrative covering about 3,500 years from 1,500 BCE to present and am presenting it in a clear honest and balanced way [[which I can do better than others as I am neither a Gazan, Zionist, Hebrew, Jew or anyone else with a stake in the outcome that blinds them to the truth. I am an Ishmaelite who pulls no punches with respect telling the truth]].

Now to read my analytic report,

[go to] Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History:

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY

Also, I am throwing out a challenge to one and all -- I defy anyone to show even one error in the facts, the reality per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) I am presenting.

Anyone wishing more information and/or to discuss can PM me on the above forum.

Iris89

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Let The Truth Be Known - STOP The Mis-Information
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 26, 2009 4:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I posted to a post I made elsewhere that I received many unwarranted negative comments, I want the truth to be known. Also, I am challenging anyone as shown below to even show one thing I am presenting is in error.

Many uninformed ones and/or ones that do NOT want to know the truth have:

[1] Been calling me names and making false accusations about me.

[2] Telling outright untruths about factual matters to favor those in the WRONG, the Gazans

[3] Have been telling me I do not know what I am speaking about – however, I know the subject of WRONGLY occupied land better for sure than any other poster.

[4] Most have failed to be objective and to call a ‘spade a spade’ and be honest.

Well I have just concluded an exhaustive study of occupied lands with major emphasis on Palestine along with a historical narrative covering about 3,500 years from 1,500 BCE to present and am presenting it in a clear honest and balanced way [[which I can do better than others as I am neither a Gazan, Zionist, Hebrew, Jew or anyone else with a stake in the outcome that blinds them to the truth. I am an Ishmaelite who pulls no punches with respect telling the truth]].

Now to read my analytic report,

[go to] Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History:

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY

Also, I am throwing out a challenge to one and all -- I defy anyone to show even one error in the facts, the reality per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) I am presenting.

Anyone wishing more information and/or to discuss can PM me on the above forum.

Iris89

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