Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

'We Are Very Violent': Israeli War Crimes Mount

By Jonathan Cook, AlterNet. Posted January 10, 2009.


And so does international criticism of Israel's utter disregard for civilian lives.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Criticism by international watchdog groups over the increasing death toll in Gaza mounted this week as the first legal actions inside Israel were launched accusing the army of intentionally harming the enclave's civilian population.

The petitions -- over attacks on medical personnel and the shelling of United Nations schools in Gaza -- follow statements by senior Israeli commanders that they have been using heavy firepower to protect soldiers during their advance on built-up areas. "We are very violent," one told Israeli media.

There is also growing evidence that Israeli forces have been firing phosphorus shells over densely populated areas in a move that risks violating international law by inflicting burns on civilians.

The Palestinian prime minister, Salam Fayyad, meanwhile, called the events in Gaza a "new Nakba", referring to the catastrophe that dispossessed the Palestinians in 1948. The Palestinian Authority revealed that it was planning to seek the prosecution of Israel's leaders for war crimes in the international courts.

The legal challenges follow a wave of Israeli attacks on schools, universities, mosques, hospitals and ambulances in the past few days. The army claims the attacks are justified because the sites are being used by Hamas fighters.

A petition to the Israeli courts was announced on Wednesday by Taleb al Sanaa, an Arab member of the Israeli parliament, over the shelling on Tuesday of a UN school in the Jabaliya refugee camp that killed at least 40 Palestinians sheltering there.

UN officials, noting that they had passed on the school's GPS co-ordinates to Israel and that it was clearly marked with a UN flag, insisted that only civilians had sought refuge at the school. The UN has demanded an investigation.

Mr. al Sanaa said the petition would name the prime minister, Ehud Olmert, the foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, and Ehud Barak, the defence minister, as the responsible parties. "Israel needs to decide whether it wants to be a terrorist organisation like Hamas or respect international law," he said.

A further petition has been launched by eight Israeli human rights groups, demanding that Israel's Supreme Court ban the army from targeting ambulances and medical personnel.

The petition cites a large number of cases in which Israel has fired on ambulances, arguing that as a result medics have been unable to treat the wounded or transport them to hospital.

Palestinian medics said 21 of their staff have been killed by Israeli fire and many more wounded, according to reports on Al Jazeera TV. The Al Durra hospital in Gaza City was hit on Tuesday, and a day later three mobile clinics run by a Danish charity, DanChurchAid, were destroyed.

The International Committee of the Red Cross dropped its usual diplomatic language this week in denouncing Israel's refusal to allow medical teams to tend the wounded.

During a three-hour pause in the fighting on Wednesday rescuers managed to reach the Zaytoun neighbourhood, south-east of Gaza City, that was extensively bombed at the start of the week.

Four children were found close to starvation alongside 15 bodies, including those of their mothers. Many other civilians were found dead in the area, and others are believed still to be in hiding. Israeli tanks were stationed nearby the destroyed buildings during the whole period.

Pierre Wettach, a Red Cross spokesman, called Israel's delay in allowing a medical evacuation "shocking" and "unacceptable". He added: "The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded."


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: israel, war crimes, palestine, gaza, red cross

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest book is "Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair" (Zed Books). His website is www.jkcook.net.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from World! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Congress's Shameful Endorsement
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Jan 10, 2009 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Congress has surpassed its usual record of stupidity and hypocrisy with its lopsided kudos for Israel's savagery in Gaza--which Congress made possible with US funds and armaments. Support for the state of Israel is one thing, but condoning its war crimes is another, as Obama has basically done also. It's nauseating the way our pols line up to lick the bloody jackboots of war criminals, whether Bush and Cheney or Olmert and Barak.

We're already hated in the Muslim world for our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and our numerous crimes associated with them, but this will further enrage the extremists and make extremists out of moderates. It will make targets of Americans and Israelis; ironically, the same logic that justifies Israeli actions in Gaza also justifies violence against US and Israeli civilians.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» All Religion is Ideology Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: All Religion is Ideology Posted by: higginslads
Zionist motto:
Posted by: Von on Jan 10, 2009 12:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by blood we will take our land.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Zionist motto: Posted by: Von
» RE: Zionist motto: Posted by: higginslads
» The hypocracy of religion Posted by: donl51
» Rachel Corrie 1979-2003 Posted by: weathered
Disgusting
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 10, 2009 2:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What disgusts me is that, at most, articles and news bits say Israel's blitzkrieg is a tad reckless and "disproportionate." Nobody in the MSM seems to call it what it is: a crime against humanity, terrorism, and a long list of human rights violations.

If Palestinians were Israelis, we would have had WWIII on our hands a long time ago, with the US and Europe coming to their rescue at the first sign of a sniffle. Whatever was left of the invaders would be tried for war crimes and hung from piano wire.

Hamas may be a bunch of thugs, but that's completely beside the point. Any people living under these conditions for this long would have lashed out against their oppressors at some point. If it wasn't Hamas throwing rockets, it would have been somebody else. Nobody seems to to mention this, and are, at most, content to shake their heads in dismay at the unfortunate loss of life, because Israel neglected to cross a few "t"s and dot a few "i"s before leveling Gaza for the nth time.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Your comment disgusts me Posted by: mgmyers79
» Two sides to Hamas Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Two sides to Hamas Posted by: gmanj77
» RE: Your comment disgusts me Posted by: thegoldberg
The good the bad and the ugly!
Posted by: 2thepoint on Jan 10, 2009 3:29 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
""And so does international criticism of Israel's utter disregard for civilian lives.""

The good - Israel lets humanitarian aid in to Gaza
The bad - Hamas takes that opportunity to smuggle in military items

The ugly - Hamas who places anti personnel war heads on it's rockets and fires them at heavily populated centers as opposed to military sites.. and fires those rockets from their own school and hospitals...

so.. who has utter disregard for civilian life?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» So 2 wrongs make it right? Posted by: felipe
» RE: The good the bad and the ugly! Posted by: americansheep
» America's forgotten tragedy! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: The good the bad and the ugly! Posted by: big_mad_def
» RE: DNFTT Posted by: Gisele
JEWS WORLDWIDE CALL ON ISRAELI SOLDIERS TO STOP WAR CRIMES
Posted by: higginslads on Jan 10, 2009 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We Jews in the international community call upon Israeli soldiers to raise the Black Flag of Illegality over the operations against the people of Gaza.

We refuse to remain silent while Israeli leaders force Israeli soldiers to commit war crimes: crimes against humanity for which they will one day be called to account. Israeli soldiers of conscience can, and must, stop this dangerous, illegal, and immoral war.

This criminal activity does nothing to advance the health and welfare of Jews. Rather, from Sderot to Sydney, from Ashkelon to Amsterdam, we will all benefit when there is justice for Palestinians.

Therefore, we call on you to use all measures possible to stop these atrocities against the Palestinian people. Flagrantly illegal orders must not simply be disobeyed, but actively and effectively opposed.

American Jews for a Just Peace

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Gaza: History Matters - Why Hamas is Not the Issue
Posted by: higginslads on Jan 10, 2009 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mohammed, age six, marched with determination to his bedroom, put on a record of the Fatah marching song, picked up a wooden toy rifle and marched out to the balcony. He pointed the rifle to the sky where minutes ago, Israeli planes flew over dropping bombs on Palestinian refugee sites. Mohammed told me he wanted to be a pilot so he could fight Israeli warplanes. “But Mohammed, the Palestinians do not have planes.” “I don’t care, I will fight them whatever way I can.” Was a resistance fighter born this minute or was he a “future terrorist”? (Beirut 1973)

How does one explain the horrific fate that has befallen caged Gaza – a land saturated with rubble and body parts – carpet-bombed by air, invaded by ground, attacked by sea? Put to the test of history, Israeli “explanations” fail the credibility test.

History matters. Israel conquered and occupied Gaza (along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem) in 1967. Hamas was an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brothers. In Gaza, it provided a network of social welfare institutions supporting the poor. During the first Palestinian Intifada (literally “shaking off” the occupation), a Hamas resistance military wing was formed. Israel and the US favored and met with Islamic Hamas leadership as a counterforce to the secular Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Fatah faction then dominant in the Intifada. As Hamas later strengthened, Israel reversed the process.

History matters. Palestinians have consistently resisted Israeli dominance over their lives. Gazan resistance has been especially problematic for Israel. In the 1970s, before Hamas, Ariel Sharon was charged with “pacifying” Gaza. Sharon imposed a brutal policy of repression, blowing up houses, bulldozing large tracts of refugee camps, imposing severe collective punishment and imprisoning hundreds of young Palestinians.

Domination and colonialism are contrary to the United Nations Charter. The legitimacy of struggle for self-determination by peoples under colonial and foreign domination was reaffirmed in U.N. General Assembly resolution 2787 (December 6, 1971). As others before them, Palestinians have and do exercise the legal and moral right to resist.

History matters. In 2005, Israel withdrew its illegal colonial settlers from Gaza. Israeli scholars Uri Davis, Ilan Pappe and Tamar Yaron noted in a Counterpunch article at the time that the primary motive of the evacuation of the settlers was to remove them from harm’s way in anticipation of an intensified future mass attack on Gaza.

History matters. After Hamas won elections in 2006, its leadership accepted a two-state solution based on the pre-war June 4, 1967 borders, but this was unacceptable to Israel. Earlier, Israel destroyed secular Fatah leader and Palestinian Authority President Arafat for failing at Camp David in July 2000 to comply with its demands to accept permanent Israeli control over Palestinian life and land confined in enclaves. Hamas became the new challenge to Israel’s vision.

The facts of history affirm that Israel will not accept a sovereign Palestinian state on any part of historic Palestine. Hamas is not the issue. All Palestinian leaders sooner or later, secular or Islamic, are declared unacceptable partners for peace no matter how much they concede to Israel. That Israel hides behind the “Hamas Islamic threat” today to destroy it as a potential partner is becoming transparent.

The picture changes when history matters. Treating Israeli war crimes as historically detached events, unrelated to its Zionist ideology and militaristic strategy to control all of Palestine, becomes more transparent each day.

History Matters - Hamas is Not the Issue

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» History Matters Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: History Matters Posted by: Thomas.Jefferson.Friend
anyone anywhere have answer for these questions?
Posted by: mikeben1 on Jan 10, 2009 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I already post this comment but noone responded
with answer so i hope anyoone can answer this.

It's a war mistakes happand and pepole are being killed but the only things anyone here does is to complain we are violance.I think is about time
to here answers on these questions.

First of all all of you pepole don't understand with what we are dealing.Animals are angels compare to hamas.

VERY IMPORTANT:
before anyone reply please watch these two videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZYwvkqt4WM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_YrStHhckQ&NR=1

Now i hope to hear answers:
Do you agree that hamas want all israel?

If hamas want all israel will you justify the
attack on gaza as a respond for 6500 rockets?

If all what hamas want is to kill all of us in israel can we destroy any building,office,houses with arms,mosques with rockets and anything they are using?

If hamas want to kill all of us do we have the right to kill any hamas memeber?

Do we have the right to strike by airplanes that will save our soldier lives and THE CIVILANS LIVES?using our soldier to walk street by street in gaza would mean alot more soldiers and civialns being killed.

If we do walk street by street and risk our lives when hamas open fire from a house full of civilans SHOULD WE KNOCK ON THE DOOR SAY HI PEPOLE AND ASK PLEASE WHO SHOT AND TEHN KILL HIM or we can return fire and kill civialnas when the real killer is hamas???

if hamas base on the videoS will NEVER want to live peacefully with israel
will YOU soppurt israel fighting and removing hamas so the civilans you so care about them will have a BETTER FUTRE??

One more question:
I just read an article here on alternet that the best soloution may be to boycotts israel for protecting their civilans.I think the writer has some serious luck of knowladge on what's going on in the world as we may need to baycot half of the world.

I won't list all examples just few for you to see the diffrences.

Russian chechnia.
russia killed 160,000 pepole
in few years which mean one out of 6 chechnian were killed in the conflict.only in FEW years.
Should we baycott russia?


Muslims kills muslims across the world daily.
Just in iraq tousand are being killed every year by muslims.maybe it's about time to baycott muslims in general?

israel killed 6000 palaestinian in the all conflict which include more then half terorists
and thats for MANY years of conflict.are we that bad compare to others?

I hope to hear sme smart responds because
normally instead of answers pepole say but gaza its a camp,civilan killed and so on that not an answer for my questions.coming back with new questions is running away from reality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The two-state solution..... Posted by: mjabele
» Fair enough Posted by: brunowe
» So what is your "solution"? Posted by: mjabele
Tell it to the Democrats in Congress
Posted by: bigchin on Jan 10, 2009 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the Democratic Party gets back on the right side of this issue, i.e. until they find another ATM other than AIPAC, nothing will happen from our end to help the situation. Rumor has it that Obama is planning to ask the odious Dennis Ross onto his team and if this is so we can be assured that Israel will continue it's deadly military posture and racist tribal arrogance. Obama once said "no one has suffered more than the Palestinians." He sure changed his tune fast when he figured out he'd be subjected to a pogrom by a small but powerful faction of stupid and gutless American Jews whose bloodlust has destroyed everything good and honorable about Jewish history and culture.

The Democratic Party has a lot of blood on its hands. So too "America's newspaper of record" the NY Times.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Anti-Semitism Canard: The American Peace Movement and Israel
Posted by: higginslads on Jan 10, 2009 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the local peace group I belong to begins to stumble on the question of Israel's invasion of Gaza, I happen to be reading Rick Perlstein's "Nixonland".

Déjà vu whirled through my mind as I read the following description of events at the 1967 National Conference for a New Politics, after a thirteen-point manifesto was introduced:

"…another clause ordered condemnation of 'the imperialistic Zionist war' in the Middle East. The Reverend William Sloane Coffin Jr., chaplain of Yale University, was among those who insisted the thirteen points be adopted without discussion as a gesture of interracial unity. Jewish delegates who considered the Six Day War a struggle for national survival walked out."

Has anyone or anything been as effective at wreaking havoc within the anti-war movement, as Israel's wars?

In 2006, Israel invaded Lebanon and the images of Lebanese children wrapped in plastic as they were pulled out of the bombed earth hurt my mind. The Jewish members of my group refused to march. As Condi Rice was on television, juxtaposed in my mind with the dead children, she talked nonsense about wanting a "lasting peace". When someone is bleeding, first thing you do? Stop The Bleeding. Worry about forging a "lasting" solution to what caused the bleeding later. I became enraged by Rice's words, but the Jewish members of my group still would not march. We were all knew to the group, and no one wanted to make waves, so no one marched.

On the internet, I found that a group called the "ad-hoc coalition" was having a demonstration against Israel's attack on Lebanon in Union Square Park. I went, alone.

Two-and-a-half years later, here we are again.

My group is having our monthly meeting this weekend. Already, two of our Jewish members are not attending. One of them emailed that she knew we would be "talking about Israel" and that this "hurt her too much." I do not know what is going to happen when we discuss upcoming demonstrations against Israel's invasion of Gaza. But early signs are not promising. And we are not alone. I know of other peace groups having the same issues.

How is the Peace movement going to deal with this? American Jews have long been at the forefront of liberal movements in this country. We need only look to the civil rights movement to see this. Yet, it is always upon Israel which we stumble.

What conversation can we have? What can each of us say? I know that I would like an explanation on how it is not anti-American to march in protests against America's wars, and to chant things like "George, pull out, just like your daddy shoulda" (I know, it's my favorite too). Yet it is anti-Semitic to criticize Israel's foreign policy. They either both are, or neither are, but you cannot have it both ways.

And perhaps there are things my Jewish friends in the peace movement would like to say to me. As long as it doesn't start with "you don't understand what it's like to be Jewish" I'm willing to listen. I don't need to understand what it's like to be Jewish. Let's face it; you don't understand what it's like to be Palestinian. We can both understand what it is like to be human. To watch your child die.

There needs to be some way for people in the peace movement to talk about this. At this point, I feel that if you are happy to march against the United States, but feel comfortable accusing myself and others of "anti-Semitism" if we protest Israel's foreign policy, then you must be anti-American. What other conclusion can I draw?

And I don't want to march with people who are actually anti-American, rather than critical of American foreign policy. It's bad PR and plays right into the hands of the hard-right.

The American Peace Movement and Israel

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let's face reality and not wrongly blame Israel.
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 10, 2009 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's face reality and not wrongly blame Israel.

Wars should be eliminated and at present one religion is responsible for over 90% of the violence on earth as pointed out by an Australian newspaper as follows:

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"

I am getting very tired of hearing Palestinians and other Ishmaelite crying crocodile tears and always trying to put the blame for what they do on others such as their conspiracy weavers tried to do about who did 9/11/2001 attack on the World Trade Center, etc. Screaming against what they call wrongful occupations when they are guilty of occupying Byzantine territory, Palestine which belongs to the Israelites [see Numbers the 34 th. Chapter in any Bible for proof of this, and their outright greed as they have over 98% of the Middle East, but still greedly want the less than 2% belonging to their sister tribe Israel] - its time we get real and put an end to this so the world can stop experiencing continuous Ishmaelite induced strife such as shooting rockets at Israel.

Solution, dissolve this false religion and rid the earth of at least 90% of the violence. But of course the politicians will not do what is needed since as Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To read detailed information, go to the following article:

[go to] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, ' ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE

Along with many other useful articles.

Iris89

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Excellent comment, arraya! Posted by: LeftWright
» SO ENLIGHTEN US...... Posted by: using
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Hamas Is The Cause Of All The Humanitarian Crises Not Israel
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 10, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A reality primer on who is the REAL war criminal in Gaza – Hamas.

A temporary cease-fire in Gaza that simply allows Hamas to obtain more lethal weapons will assure a repetition of Hamas' win-win tactic of firing rockets at Israeli civilians while using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

The best example of Hamas' double war crime tactic was Tuesday, when it succeeded in sending a rocket to a town less than 20 miles south of Tel Aviv and injuring a child. At the same time, it provoked Israel to attack a United Nations school from which Hamas was launching its rockets. Residents of the neighborhood said two Hamas fighters were in the area at the time, and the Israeli military said they had been killed, according to the New York Times.

The Hamas tactic of firing rockets from schools, hospitals and mosques dates back to 2005, when Israel ended its occupation of Gaza. Several months ago, the head of the Israeli air force showed me a videotape (now available on YouTube) of a Hamas terrorist deliberately moving his rocket launcher to the front of a U.N. school, firing a rocket and then running away, no doubt hoping that Israel would then respond by attacking the rocket launcher and thus killing Palestinian children in the school.

This is the Hamas dual strategy: to kill and injure as many Israeli civilians as possible by firing rockets indiscriminately at Israeli civilian targets, and to provoke Israel to kill as many Palestinian civilians as possible to garner world sympathy.

Let’s STOP Hamas’ evil activities and have lasting peace in Israel and Gaza!

Iris89

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hamas Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Hamas Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: Hamas Posted by: arraya
» RE: (cont.) Posted by: moflard
» RE: Hamas Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Hamas Posted by: mikeben1
For Hamas, killing isn't the main thing, it's the only thing.
Posted by: nozz on Jan 10, 2009 6:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The blame for innocent deaths goes to Hamas twice: first for firing rockets at Israeli civilians, and second for firing those rockets from schools, mosques, and residential neighborhoods. If Hamas stopped, there would be no more such deaths on either side.

Israel pulled every last soldier and civilian out of Gaza in 2005 and left the Gazans to attend to their own affairs in every way but one. With respect to education, infrastructure, religion, health, agriculture Israel doesn't interfere. It demands only that Hamas let Israel live in peace. But it seems that Hamas attaches no priority to investing in anything else-- not education, infrastructure, religion, health, agriculture-- compared to attacking Israel. For Hamas, killing isn't the main thing, it's the only thing.

Israel took thousands of rocket hits from Hamas over the past several years, and if there weren't more Israeli casualties, the reason wasn't that Hamas didn't try. Proportionality doesn't mean "don't bash the other side harder than you were bashed." It means "bash the other side hard enough to stop them, but no harder." Hamas hasn't been stopped yet.

Hamas was elected democratically-- if you can call an election democratic when the candidates carry guns-- but that's the Gazans' tough luck. Israel wasn't in on that vote, and being elected in country A doesn't give you the right to attack country B.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» 10 Isaelis dead 800 Gazans Posted by: cat007
Waldmeister
Posted by: Nasookin on Jan 10, 2009 8:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that Depleted Uranium has been found in some of the Gaza victims who have been wounded.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Waldmeister Posted by: using
A LONG HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 10, 2009 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched Bill Moyers last night and he made a statement about events in Palestine & Israel. He read several quotes form the bible, the Old Testament. They all refered to war and violence. Israel has 5000+ years of excuses to destroy people's property, murder their children and whatever else they deem necessary to prevail. Yet it's not truly a religious issue for countless Jews who live everyday in a secular world. They are generous, bright and creative. So repeatedly going back on history to prove the Israeli point is getting worn out. Hamas was elected recently but Israel has a long history which includes an extraordinary amount of violence. All of which is explained away and justified by something that happened way back when. It ain't about Hamas. Thanks, ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A LONG HISTORY OF VIOLENCE Posted by: weathered
BARE FACTS......lets dispute the reality
Posted by: using on Jan 10, 2009 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab la nds to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» conversion Posted by: nap
» And the Palestinians? Posted by: mjabele
Ethnic Cleansing
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Jan 10, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Zionist Execution Squads are killing Gaza's innocent civilians in an effort to wipe out multiple generations of displaced Palestinians. While the world watches, lessons taught by the Nazis in Poland are being recycled by Israeli forces who are mass murdering the people of Gaza. We should not be surprised when a suicide bomber eventually explodes a weapon of mass destruction erasing Israel, after all payback is a bitch.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: thnic Cleansing Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: thnic Cleansing Posted by: weathered
Ok-you win-I did not read one response from the Palestinian sympathizers that would direct us to a
Posted by: using on Jan 10, 2009 11:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sustainable peace.

So, to the Annas.. I believe you are right.....we should clearly forget discussing the past..where the truth is buried and besmudged...

Here, is my desperate response to the blatant disregard of the requests for reasonable rules that would allow for a cease fire..I am forced to accept that REASONABLE IS NOT IN THE CARDS partly BECAUSE THOSE THAT ARE STUBBORNLY INCITING ANGER ....refuse to focus on the base conditions necesssary for peace to be forged.....so I am offereing

PLAN 2

The Palestinians want Hamas.....GOOD.....LETS GIVE HIM NON TERORIST STATUS....SO HE WILL HAVE TO STOP ACTING LIKE A TERRORIST AND ABIDE BY THE RULES OF FAIR PLAY EXPECTED FROM A CIVILIZED SOCIETY.....

and lets observe what he does for his people...And then EVERYONE WHO CLAIMS TO RESPECT TRUTH WILL BE PRIVY TO the real goalS and visions of Hamas and the Palestinians .... and who knows how much of the ARab world.

Ok.....in 2005 Isreal returned Gaza to the Gazians...So lets respect their right to reach the potential they envision for their themselves.....

BUT PLEASE, LETS JUST KEEP THEM AWAY FROM ISRAEL.....

and lets observe the outcome, for it is in the finished product that a people's vision and teaching can be found.

Oh..and what say you? Should Isreal continue to supply the Palestinians with electricty and other goods...or should Isreal just close shop as long as their leaders support the goal of DISTROYING ISRAEL?

I was thinking that if the UN refuses to protect these two countries from harming each other perhaps.....Israel should:

a.place a reflection device......so that anything that hits the wall or comes close to the wall.....will blow up on the Palestinian side.,.......
b. there should be a land mine.....a few feet from the outside of the wall......so terrorist cannot approach...
c. and a shorter fence..around the land mine...so that Palestinians cannot cry that Isreal did not protect their children from wandering over to the land mine.

I offer these suggestions in sheer desperation.....since a sustainable peace seems not to be the goal on this web site....just retribution for retalliation of harm done........

So...what do you think of my counter offer so we can create a cease fire even without reasonable rules and still protect innocent people?.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

May All of Hamas Be Targeted as Terrorists?
Posted by: Jim Shaw on Jan 10, 2009 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One aspect (among many) of this tragedy that troubles me is the notion that because some members of Hamas have carried out acts of terror, the entire political party may be labeled as terrorists. This apparently includes any civil servants who serve in that government. Furthermore, their families and anybody unlucky enough to live in their vicinity are seen as fair game for murder. When I see statistics on civilians killed in the Israeli attacks, I assume that many civilian civil servants aren't being included.

Like many resistance groups, Hamas evolved into a political party over time, and apparently won a free and fair election in Gaza. Rather than having their legitimate political behavior validated and encouraged, Israel and its U.S. enablers denied their victory and precipitated civil war between Hamas and Fatah. Once Hamas assumed power, Israel and friends did everything possible to destabilize their regime and make life intolerable for Gazans. This doesn't look like a strategy designed to promote peace and security, but rather a strategy to divide and conquer

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» It's called PR.. Posted by: donl51
War Crimes
Posted by: shipmate on Jan 10, 2009 1:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The International Court in denHague does not impose the death penalty as did the post WW II warcrimes trials in Europe and Japan. Anyone who is reponsible for actions against civilian populations should face this institution, including the likes of Bush and those responsible for the Gaza massacres.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: War Crimes Posted by: VZEQICVA
Hamas does not accept the state of Israel
Posted by: Sons on Jan 10, 2009 1:37 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over and over mainstream media say that Hamas is an unacceptable organization because they want to destroy Israel.

But it dawned on me: this is exactly the stance of Israel toward Hamas, the elected government of Gaza.

Israel demands destruction of Hamas.

Why aren't commentators honest and state that both sides have the same, exact goal and will not accept anything less than destruction of the other side?

Of course, no successful peace can be concluded with this attitude - something main stream commentators readily recognize, but only as applied to Hamas.

Both sides need to accept the existence of the other side. That is the most basic pre-condition for any talks. Israel and Hamas need to DROP their statement of non-acceptance of the other side NOW.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Jew Watch????? Posted by: GuitarBill
What's on other sites? Huffpost has pics, but is so silent on the issue, I wonder why?
Posted by: Lauren on Jan 10, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Max Blumenthal wonders about Neo-Nazis For Israel? But I didn't see any outright criticism like we have here at AlterNet.

While much of the neo-Nazi fringe remains opposed to the existence of Israel, the whites-only British National Party recently declared its full-throated support for Israel's attack on Gaza... whaa whnaa (baby crying)

Howard Schweber takes a stab at it with, Israel in Gaza: Three Wrong Arguments, glad to see that. He does point out Israel uses false arguments but doesn't go so far as to really get critical of the policy and start calling them the dirty names they deserve.

Is this progress? Are these baby steps? Or more whitewash on the great wall of denial?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Gaza Webcam
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jan 10, 2009 5:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=386&ar=
NanaTV01&dr=02:30:00%20-%202k%20-

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Now I want Israel Wiped Out
Posted by: kackermann on Jan 10, 2009 7:31 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not even personal. There is this sinfully evil nation out there that does not have one ounce of morals, and we (the US) support it.

I don't even care about the blowback (which is sure to come), I just want that nation gone.

What has Israel ever done for the world? They are incapable of helping themselves, and incapable of being fair, and incapable of empathy. Those are all very human traits to have, and they have none. I simply cannot relate to a point of view with zero redeeming qualities.

Move the Israeli citizens here, for all I care, but get them out and bulldoze the place under. Let the Palestinians have it back, and leave them alone.

I'm big enough to admit the UN made a mistake in 48'.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The idea of some "vast Arab territory" which is somehow obligated to accept Palestinian refugees...
Posted by: mjabele on Jan 10, 2009 9:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is absurd, and completely un-historical.

Do commenters like "using" honestly think that the world's Islamic countries share some sort of uniform ethnicity and/or culture, as a simple function of sharing the Arab language? This is preposterous.

"Arab" nomad armies first burst out of the Arabian peninsula in the 600's A.D., at which time they were confronted with the well-defended, much more heavily populated Byzantine and Persian empires on their northwestern and northeastern flanks, respectively. Palestine itself was taken in the 630's, after a prolonged defensive action by the Byzantines; the territory was by no means empty, and there's no indication whatsoever from either Byzantine or Arab sources that the indigenous population, mainly Christian at that point in time, was forcibly expelled in large numbers in order to make way for some sort of Arab influx from the thinly populated, arid homelands of the conquerors.

The same is true of neighboring Mesopotamia and Egypt, both of which were the seats of ancient civilizations and large, ethnically homogeneous populations which had been resident there for literally millenia. The Arabs did not displace these populations; rather, they took over the governments of the territories, in consequence of which their language necessarily became dominant, but ethnically THEY were the ones absorbed by the much larger populations over which they ruled, rather than acting as "absorbers" themselves.

Moving westward, one finds the same thing happening in Morocco, where the native, non-Arab Berber population was conquered, but subsequently adopted the Arab language. Crossing over to Spain, large parts of which were ruled by Arab and Moroccan Bedouin dynasties for up to 500 years, one again finds that the indigenous Iberian population was not displaced, but rather remained in place and to a large extent adopted the Arab language and Islamic religion for much of that period, in deference to the conqueror. Even today, the Spanish language preserves many words of Arab origin, and the peninsula itself is studded with Arab place-names (Algeciras, Andalusia, Gibraltar).

Sicily, too, was occupied for a time by Arab rulers. Needless to say, its population remained ethnically Italian.

In the case of Persia, another ancient civilization, the Arabs again conquered, but didn't even manage to impose their language successfully, let alone their ethnicity. Farsi remains the language of modern-day Iran, and no one makes the claim that the Iranians are ethnically Arab.

The bottom line is that this "vast Arab ethnicity" which Israelis would like to claim exists, and which they'd consequently like to see take in the Palestinians as a "co-ethnic" group, is largely a myth. The people of Morocco are predominantly descendants of the native Berber population, not Arab invaders. The inhabitants of Egypt are largely descended from the pharaonic population of the Nile River Valley, which was never displaced or eradicated by any of a large sequence of conquerors. Similarly, the people of Iraq are descendants of the many ancient people civilizations - Sumer, Babylon, Assyria - which flourished in the fertile Euphrates and Tigris riverbeds. The Iranians are descendants of the ancient Persians, un-related to the Arabs in any way.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

As for the Palestinians...
Posted by: mjabele on Jan 10, 2009 9:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, they're clearly descendants of those people who were living in the Byzantine province of Palestine in 638 A.D. when Jerusalem fell to the Arabs. Christians, predominantly at that point - though there are also some Jewish communities documented as well, in the context of small Jewish revolts in Palestine requiring Roman military intervention in 351 A.D., 438 A.D., and 614 A.D. - i.e., several centuries after the supposed complete dispersion of all Jews from Palestine under the Emperor Hadrian (r. 117-138). As for the ethnic identity of the Christian Palestinians, I won't pretend to know for sure, but given that they must have been fairly recent converts - Christianity didn't become the dominant religion in the Roman Empire till the 300's A.D. - I'm left suspecting they were almost certainly direct descendants of whatever people were living in the province during the second and third centuries A.D. One could postulate a mixture of Hellenized Greeks, perhaps some Roman colonists, with an admixture of "neighboring" peoples - but one also has perforce to wonder to what extent they might be descended from indigenous Jews who simply never left the province following Hadrian's suppression of the Bar Kokhba Rebellion, and who were certainly the majority population prior to that event. Ancient historical sources are, however, quite clear in pointing out that not all Jews left after Bar Kokhba, regardless of what modern Jews may claim.

In any event, it's clear that the Palestinians are descended from people who resided in the territory at least since Roman times, and very likely longer than that. However, whatever may be the case, they are NOT ethnically related to Moroccan Berbers, Tunisians, Egyptians, Sudanese, Iraqis, Iranians, Yemeni Arabs, or Bahrainis - regardless of the fact that all of these peoples, except for the Iranians, share the Arab language.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

leftbank
Posted by: markw4786 on Jan 10, 2009 9:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel acts like Nazi Germany and our leaders in Congress (bought HOOK, LINE and SINKER by the Israel lobby) do nothing. Surprised? Hell no. This is the same morally challenged Congress led by Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnel and John BONER who enabled Bush and are perfectly comfortable with torture and the end of habeus corpus. WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.
As the Rev Wright said: "GOD DAMN AMERIKA."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: leftbank Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: leftbank Posted by: Gisele
leftbank
Posted by: markw4786 on Jan 10, 2009 10:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O shit nozz, bad new! The good white Christians feel so bad about the holocaust that after hundreds of years of their own pogroms, quotas in law and medical school, refused entry in country clubs, refused entry in communities,casting labels as Christs killers, on and on...are giving them (ya know, God's chosen) your home. You and your family must be out next week. If not your wife, kids, parents and neighbors will be killed AS TERRORISTS. We will also label you as NOZZ NIGERS for fun...but really you will deserve such a slur.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

An impotent military
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jan 11, 2009 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An impotent military will start committing atrocities--and Israel is nothing if not impotent right now.

Consider Israel's frustration. All of their military might and skill, all the money handed over to them by the U.S., all the willingness to commit mass murder--all of it is impotent in the face of a few determined terrorists. They've got NUKES...and they can't stop a single f*cking rocket from coming in!

The frustration has caused Israel and its backers to go insane. I cite the defenses of Israel you see on this very page, which strike me as nutty in the extreme--a combination of bigoted lies and non sequiturs. But how else do you defend the indefensible?

All but the most mad-dog Israel boosters must realize they cannot win. It's a classic checkmate, which a military mind should be able to understand. The more people they slaughter, the more enemies they will create. They will eventually alienate the whole world. The terrorists will keep coming. Their power will fail.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: An impotent military Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: An impotent military Posted by: thegoldberg
This will just make your day..
Posted by: Gisele on Jan 11, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
better, or not. Personally, I find it hard differ between the US and Zionist Israel now - if there is a difference, I can't find it. When did America sink so low?

Other articles here.

The US is trying to hire a merchant ship that can carry hundreds of tons of weapons from Greece to Israel later this month; Reuters reported citing tender documents it had obtained.

According to the US Navy's Military Sealift Command (MSC), the ship will transport 325 standard 20-foot containers of what has been called 'ammunition' from the Greek port of Astakos to the Israeli port of Ashdod on two separate trips in the second half of January.

A description on the manifest says the containers will be loaded with 'hazardous material', such as explosive substances and detonators, without giving any more details.

The Pentagon announced the tender for the ship in the last hours of 2008. The two deadlines set for the deliveries are January 25 and the last day of the month.

Meanwhile, a Pentagon spokesman confirmed the planned arms shipment to Israel, but denied that the delivery was linked to the Israel's deadly offensive in Gaza.

"This previously scheduled shipment is routine and not in support of the current situation in Gaza," said Air Force Lt. Col. Patrick Ryder.

However, a senior military analyst in London, who wished to remain unnamed, said the timing of the shipments shows that they may be 'irregular' and linked to the military operation in Gaza.

The tender for the ship followed a December US arms delivery to Israel, which was also carried out by a merchant ship.

This is while shipping brokers in London who have carried out weapon deliveries for the British and US military in the past say that shipment of such a large cargo of weapons to Israel is rare.

"Shipping 3,000-odd tons of ammunition in one go is a lot… this is pretty rare and we haven't seen much of it quoted in the market over the years," one broker said, on condition of anonymity.

Tender documents indicate that the German ship hired by the US in early December also carried a massive cargo of weapons that weighed over 2.6 million kg and filled up to 989 standard 20-foot containers to Ashdod from North Carolina.

In September, the US Congress approved a plan to sell Israel 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, of the Guided Bomb Unit-39 (GBU-39), that use GPS to find their way and are able to penetrate deep fortified constructions, such as Iran's nuclear facilities.

Last week, The Jerusalem Post, reported that the first shipment of the missiles arrived in early December, adding that the bombs had been used in the military onslaught in Gaza.

So far, Israel's 15-day offensive in the besieged Palestinian enclave has claimed the lives of more than 800 Palestinians and wounded almost 3500.

Hamas on the other hand says Palestinian fighters have so far killed at least 30 Israeli soldiers and wounded more than 80 others.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In the Name of GOD we do what we want.
Posted by: ranger1 on Jan 11, 2009 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

David Ben-Gurion quotes (Polish born Israeli Statesman and Prime Minister (1948-53, 1955-63). Chief architect of the state of Israel and revered as Father of the Nation, 1886-1973)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Balanced commentary
Posted by: BigWoody680 on Jan 11, 2009 8:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where is AlterNet's articles condeming Hamas's total disregard for human life. Israelies drop leaflets warning Gaza civilians to stay out of the way. Where is the Hamas leaflets warning the Israeli civilians?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Balanced commentary Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: Balanced commentary Posted by: VZEQICVA
Blow Back
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Jan 11, 2009 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/528.html

They created them to go to war. The citizens need reason to go to war. 911 was their Pearl Harbor to go to war and remove our freedoms. They lie to us everyday. Now we have to fear Iran having nuclear weapons. Israel has them and has invaded other countries (Palestine and Lebanon recently). Genocide big time is happening in this area of the world.

That one woman standing up on the side of the WTC building (most of it blown out) many stories up waiting for rescue which never came still haunts me.

Syria and Jordan are full of their refugees. Millions of them who have lost their homes and land (to Israel). It is a land and water grab by Israel. They want to rule all of that area of the world with Jerusalem as their capital (Middle East Union). Jerusalem is home of many religious groups. Hillary says Jews should rule from there (who made her Queen anyway?).

Certainly are a lot of fear speeches going on. Oh my god...it's going to get worse!! Let's throw money at it in a hurry (like any of their hurry speeches ever ended up being the best in the long run). Is that leadership or robbery? I think it is like screaming fire in a room full of people to cause the market to plunge (they probably have money in the market to profit on the way down). The panic is on purpose for money to corporations...some of them even Chinese bank bonds, etc.

A Rep. Sherman (D-CA) disagreed about the bailouts to China, etc. on CSPAN recently. It's too little he said. We have to address the problems and re-regulate. It's OK to give CEOs in corporations who we bailout $1 Million dollars salary a year! Guess he wants that job when he leaves Congress.

Notice this financial terrorism is another crisis (also Israel invading the Gaza strip) when they are on break? Be a citizen who questions their promises and actions. It's our country and money. They aren't smarter than us. Look at the mess they have made of our country!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Blow Back Posted by: Gisele
Reality - Hamas is Responsible For Including The Humanitarian Problem - Not Israel
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 12, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let’s get real and stop falsely accusing Israel of creating a humanitarian crises when it is Hamas that has done so. Hamas could bring a halt to this crisis immediately if it wanted to! All it has to do is stop firing rockets at Israel, provide assurances with monitors that it will NEVER do so again, and return the kidnapped Israel soldier and his kidnappers – the war situation would them abruptly STOP. So let’s get real.

Wars should be eliminated and at present one religion is responsible for over 90% of the violence on earth as pointed out by an Australian newspaper as follows:

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"

I am getting very tired of hearing Palestinians and other Ishmaelite crying crocodile tears and always trying to put the blame for what they do on others such as their conspiracy weavers tried to do about who did 9/11/2001 attack on the World Trade Center, etc. Screaming against what they call wrongful occupations when they are guilty of occupying Byzantine territory, Palestine which belongs to the Israelites [see Numbers the 34 th. Chapter in any Bible for proof of this, and their outright greed as they have over 98% of the Middle East, but still greedly want the less than 2% belonging to their sister tribe Israel] - its time we get real and put an end to this so the world can stop experiencing continuous Ishmaelite induced strife such as shooting rockets at Israel.

Solution, dissolve this false religion and rid the earth of at least 90% of the violence. But of course the politicians will not do what is needed since as Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To read detailed information, go to the following article:

[go to] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, ' ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE

Along with many other useful articles.

Iris89

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Fatah, Hamas, and Hades
Posted by: gmanj77 on Jan 12, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fatah was started in 1954, while Hamas was started in 1987. I’m not saying that Fatah was without jewish influence in its formation, but the influence is of a different kind. Fatah was formed by Palestinians who genuinely wanted freedom, but the formation was possibly influenced by jewish “shadows.” Arafat arrived on the scene, Ray Bans and all, “out” of Hades in 1967, a “shell” of the ram bam, Moses Maimonides.

Although a Fatah member, Arafat was obviously involved in the formation of Hamas. What was “the rabbi of all rabbis” doing as a Palestinian leader trying to doom Fatah and doom the Palestinian People with Hamas? Just look at the word Hamas, and you can see what the Pharisees want: a “thousand” year - Hades is a “very long time”, in the sense of suffering, a “thousand year reich” - time of sodomy. How is their puppet Arafat, who places all other jews and others of judaism in manichean opposition to the Pharisees, as a member of Fatah, to establish Hamas as the leading Palestinian party and to preclude the Palestinian Nation from establishing statehood?

Again, look at the names: Yasser Arafat, Fatah, and Hamas. By Being in Fatah as “why ass “e” is ours, ass “our” ass, f— a “be hole”, a “fellow” sodomite, the cursed, the members of Hades. Hamas and 1987? Look at the letters, and numbers: Hamas, 8 or, for Hades, a long time, of suffering, as mas, as malakoi sodomites; and 1987, a I, an non-I, an airhead, again a long time, but this time G, or perfect.

What? How could that be “perfect”? It of course can’t be, but the jews understand it as “their way”, and pursue their self-immolation insanity as a sort of “arbeit-macht-frei” freedom, an insanity that is out of control and suffused in its “own” runaway train chaos, flux, and indeterminacy, its own Babel babble maniacal ravings and rants: Nietzschean psychopathology, and Son-of-Sam chaos.

So where are the Palestinian People in all this mess? I believe there are People in Hamas, but obviously they probably do not know these things. It is true that the Palestinians want to defend themselves as best they can against the state sponsored terrorism of Israel and ZOG DC, and rightfully so, but it is probably best that the Palestinians, knowing of the diabolical scheme of the Pharisees, dissolve Hamas and have Fatah be the party of Palestinian freedom.

Hamas was being labeled as terrorist, even as it is obvious to the world that the rockets are being launched from ZOG Israeli F-16s, in a desperate attempt to demonize the Palestinian People, “’cause,” as George W. would say, “you done elected ‘em, and I gotsa go get lunk.” I’m not saying that Hamas is terrorist, they are not. I’m saying that they are being used by the terrorists, the jews of Israel and the jew puppets of ZOG DC, in an attempt to legetimate Israeli terrorism against the Palestinian People.

The best move for the Palestinians is to stop this by establishing a Fatah government, a government of the Palestinian People free from “rabbi” Yasser Arafat or any other zionist machinations.

Patrick M. Griffin

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Fatah, Hamas, and Hades Posted by: Gisele
Of Sewer Rat Eschatology
Posted by: gmanj77 on Jan 12, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Genesis 4:9-16

9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

10 The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the LORD said to him, “Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.


The jews were cursed by God because they did sodomy. Cain killed “able” or the part of himself that had ability or that gives Human Beings the quality of being able to do things at all. Able was a shepherd (easily understood to represent Christ or a Natural/Supernatural Human Being), while Cain “worked the soil” (no doubt a reference to the Pharisees doing sodomy). Or so the Pharisees wrote, in an attempt to ensure their survival and rule in the diasporic space of the terrorist state-of-israel, Hades on Earth (1).

Having committed sodomy, the violation of the sacred sexual essence, heterosexual of course, of Humanity, the jews were committed to Hades. Had-es, or had an afterlife, is the place where the state of being is just neurological states that others had. There is no ability to do anything, and all there are undead zombies, and unable to die. All there is are the 5, or F-I-V-E, terrorist psychopathologically mental neural states-of-affairs that those in Hades endure (2). And they endure these states memor-ex, or minus any memory. All there is are networked undead shit-for-brains in neurological states of horror specifically TIVOed by Tel-Aviv Television RAM BAM Rambus DRAM ROM.

The jews and others of judaism (the many sects of judaism such as Fundamentalists and Evangelicals, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hare Krishnas and the Church of Satan, Herbalife and Mary Kay Cosmetics, Providence Service Corporation and Jews for Jesus, and NAMbLA, Church of Scientology and AMWAY, etc., etc.) are attempting to destroy the Earth and render Her into a “Lost World” of Jaws/Jurassic Park terror and horror. But if those of Hades want to escape the underworld, then why would they want to destroy the Earth?

The jews have schemed the fiction that they allied themselves with extra-terrestrial aliens who want to colonize the Earth, but live “above” the Earth in a high-tech “internet” world-wide-web Hades “heaven.” There are two “aliens” that are here on the Earth. They are said to be “alien” “intelligences” that were placed in jew fetuses to be “naturalized” by being born on the Earth to save the jews from Hades. They are Condoleezza Rice and Ari Fleisher.

Ari Fleisher has now taken the “shell” body of Barack Obama, and Condoleezza Rice is “in” Mi-chelle Obama or my shell or body is that of a woman, but I am a man, Mi, as a “be lack” female. In addition, Barack Obama has the transsexual identity of the porn star Jake Steed, and Condoleezza Rice that of the porno starlet Inari Vachs; and they made over 300 movies, many together, in the late 1990’s, in a nerdy and retarded attempt to “naturalize” homosexuality via “performances” of abominable sex acts.

See the whole article at: http://www.blogger.com/home?pli=1

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Of Sewer Rat Eschatology Posted by: slugsucker
it is a sad day
Posted by: thegoldberg on Jan 13, 2009 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prior to making my statement, which will likely not be in agreement with many of the readers here, I wish to make two requests.
#1. Please do not pre-judge the veracity of the arguments or the statistics based on my opinion, which should be rather transparent.
#2. I absolutely abhor needless killing, and I send my condolences to all the individuals who have suffered a loss of a friend or family member as a result of the conflict in Israel and Gaza as well as any of the other horrifying conflicts currently in progress around the globe. The fear and family-shearing forces at work create staggering loss of life, but perhaps more importantly, unheard of emotional upheaval and pain amongst those who have lost loved ones prematurely.

I believe that we, as humans who can experience empathy, are ethically required take action to prevent unnecessary loss of life.

If by popular vote, we brought to power a government that took aim at civilians, and did so as part of its OPENLY STATED TACTICS, would we not consider ourselves responsible?

Since 2001, the popularly elected Hamas and along with Fatah and Islamic Jihad have launched over 10,000 rockets into Israel. Between the suicide bombs and rocket attacks they have killed approximately 1200 Israelis. During the same time, around 4,400 Palestinians have died as a result of Israeli military action, and almost 600 Palestinians at the hands of fellow Palestinians.

According to the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism the approximate proportion of Palestinian non-combatants killed during the Second Intifada (started in 2001) is approximately 44%. Compare that to the percentage of Israeli non-combatants killed at 75%. The numbers speak for themselves.

To call Israel's operation in Gaza a "massacre" or anything related to some kind of "ethnic cleansing" is completely beyond the pale. It is a military operation with unfortunate, but understandable collateral damage in the form of civilian deaths & injuries.

Israel has used extreme measures to prevent unnecessary civilian deaths. For example, Hamas uses civilians to shield their weapons caches by having them stand on the roofs of building being used to store arms. Israel developed a way to scare the civilians off the roof using special "pre-bombs" that just make a loud noise. Once this pre-bomb detonates, the civilians flee the roof and building and another jet targets the building with a destructive rocket.

Israel, like any other country, has a right to defend itself against a group of people (Hamas and their supporters) who seek to destroy it. The fact that there are several hundred casualties since the start of this operation and not several thousand is a real testament to Israel's effort to carry out a war with minimal civilian casualties.

Had any other country been fighting this war, we would have seen thousands or tens of thousands of casualties by now.

It is imperative that Israel root out Hamas' leaders and, once this is done, help the civilian Palestinian population of Gaza and the West Bank develop a healthy community with excellent schools, infrastructure, social services, hospitals, etc. To do anything less would be unethical and furthermore not in the interest of ongoing peace, security, and friendship.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Zionist Nazis
Posted by: gkuhl3 on Jan 16, 2009 7:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world community is pressuring the United States to stop arming and giving diplomatic immunity to Israel.
This Israeli bombing of Gaza is inhumane and criminal.
It amounts to Genocide and those responsible ought to be brought before an international criminal court of justice.

The corporate fascist media in the U.S are nothing but Zionist apologists.

The time has come for Israel to STOP once and for all its evil colonial occupation of Palestine.
We have had enough with this domination, this unjust war against the Palestinians.
Israel has engaged in an ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people, and in a outgoing expansion
of their Jewish settlements on Palestinian territories for years now.

Hamas is a consequence of the brutal, abusive and ruthless Israeli occupation.
The Palestinian people and Hamas are simply resisting and fighting for their freedom.
It's a struggle for liberation and self determination.
And for an autonomy and sovereignty that Israel has deny them for way too long now.

As long as Israel continues its heinous crimes against the Palestinians
There will be no "security for Israel" and no peace in the middle east.

We owe it to the Palestinian people to have autonomy over their territories without Israeli intervention,
occupation and control of their borders.

All the Palestinians want is a sovereign Palestinian state or Palestinian territories.
And a peaceful coexistence with Israel.

Guillermo Kuhl
gkuhl3@bellsouth.net

http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/dees1.htm
http://www.rense.com/



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, science for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.
This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once.
Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this,
how despicable an ignorable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action!
It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." (Albert Einstein)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]