COMMENTS: 124
The Paradox of Israel: Regional Super Power and the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest World headlines via email.
Trying to understand the psychology of a people at war is a lot like trying to find the bodies buried under a bombed-out building.
For more than 40 years, I've been watching my own Jewish people in wartime, repeating the same self-defeating pattern over and over. Most Jews say that they want Israel to be more secure, and they really mean it. Yet they support and vote for leaders who perpetuate the conflicts that make Israel less secure.
I've been digging for decades through the endless pieces of that paradox, trying to get to the bottom of it. Here's what I see now as the bottom layer (though there may be layers further down that I haven't reached yet): The root of the problem lies in the Jews' relationship to the non-Jewish world and, even more, in the way Jews understand that relationship.
Jews have a long, checkered history of relations with their gentile neighbors. Sometimes, in centuries past, they got along very well; Jews felt fully a part of a larger multiethnic community. But most of the Jews who came to Palestine to populate a Jewish state never had that connected feeling. They experienced the human world the way minority groups so often do: There's us, and then there's everybody else; there's a wall separating us from everybody else. So they could never see themselves as part of a larger Middle Eastern community, a web of interactions where each group influenced all the others.
All they could feel was a great disconnect. Before 1948, they saw themselves as a community separated by all sorts of invisible walls from the Arabs around them. After 1948, they had geographical borders that functioned as visible separators, much like the ghetto walls of old. Although Zionism began as an effort to make the Jews a "normal nation," it ended up creating the world's largest Jewish ghetto.
For many Jews, the sense of disconnection was rooted in real history. Some had ancestors who had been separated from gentiles physically by a ghetto wall. Many had ancestors who felt separated by invisible walls of law and social custom, which seemed just as thick and high.
Still others, though, came from relatively well-assimilated communities. They learned to feel separated from the non-Jewish world, for reasons of all sorts. And since the Six-Day War of 1967, many Jews in the United States and around the world, who grew up in very well-assimilated settings, have learned a similar attitude. For them, Israel is the symbol of a gulf that they imagine has always existed, and must always exist, between Jews and gentiles.
That's why many Israeli Jews, and Jews everywhere who sympathize with them, have a hard time recognizing what the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. taught us: Whoever we are, whomever we live with, all the members of a community are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. That's not a moral platitude. It's a poetic way of stating a commonsense observation of fact: Whatever we do is bound to affect others in our community, just as what they do affects us; we are all responding to each other all the time.
No matter how isolated one group may feel, it is always interacting with the groups around it. A minority group knows that it's responding to the majority. It has a harder time seeing how the majority is responding to it. But in fact, the relationship is always mutual. And when anyone on either sides commits violence, the violence is actually a product of the ongoing pattern of relationship, although the majority typically holds the upper hand when it comes to force.
Since so many Jews in Palestine could not recognize that network of mutuality, they could not see how much the Arabs were responding to them. They saw themselves simply living their ordinary lives, minding their own business, on their side of the invisible wall. When the first Arab rocks were thrown at Jews, they seemed like bolts out of the blue. Most Jews could not imagine that their own behavior and their own choices were triggering the attacks. They assumed that the Arabs' had some other motivation -- anti-Semitism, many assumed -- to single them out as innocent victims.
Today, the Palestinian Arabs' rocks still fly. Bullets and bombs and rockets fly, too. And the same great disconnect remains among far too many Jews, both in Israel and around the world. They assume that there is no network of mutuality, no web of give and take. There is simply the Jewish state, trying its best to live peacefully and mind its own business, constantly victimized by attacks for reasons known only to the attackers. All the trouble, it seems, begins on the other side of the border.
This view is at the root of all Israel's military and diplomatic policies and the support they engender throughout the Jewish world. When you see the world through the lens of the great disconnect, everything that the Israeli government does makes sense, including the recent massive attack on Gaza. It's all based on the premise that no changes in Israel's policies can ever affect the basic antagonism of its neighbors.
The famous historian Benny Morris, in a recent New York Times op-ed, described just how things look from inside this great disconnect: "Many Israelis feel that the walls -- and history -- are closing in on their 60-year-old state. … The Arab and wider Islamic worlds … have never truly accepted the legitimacy of Israel's creation and continue to oppose its existence. … The West … is gradually reducing its support for Israel."
Stay up to date with the latest World headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on Jan 2, 2009 2:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a country w/WMD, its manipulating hands all over our Wallet and the emotional development of an 8th grader who has no friends and doesn't care why?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: it is across the board.
Posted by: Lauren
» How come Alternet does not report about the Israeli attack on Cynthia McKinney's rescue group?
Posted by: Prophit
» I followed yer link
Posted by: Von
» Thanks for the update.... I was worried.... Cynthia has been so...
Posted by: Prophit
» Thanx Prophit but I cant take credit for that.
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on Jan 2, 2009 2:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THANK YOU!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FREE SPEECH on Jan 2, 2009 2:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel is not a GHETTO - it is a country, a country with an ethnically Jewish majority.
A Jewish country (namely: Israel) is sorely needed because as a stateless (or perhaps more accurately, territorial-less) group for very many centuries Jews the world over have encountered so many problems precisely because of the fact that that they were a rootless ethnic minority living amongst other larger ethnic groups who would tolerate so many of these "nomadic outsiders" in their midst. The main reason Jews as a group has survived so long is because they often have just packed up and left countries or territories when things go too bad for them (where they were hounded out, for instance) or were being persecuted and went in search of greener pastures. However, many ask if this is 'fair' or just due to the fact that the majority of other groups in the world are held in place and in check by national boundaries, economies, laws, and cultures - while Jews are for the most part not bound by these norms because they live transnationally (exiles, basically) amongst other groups who do not always tolerate their presence well because of the natural territorial instincts of groups and nations.
There are many historians and scholars, both Jewish and non-Jewish, who have wrote and talked about how much of the antisemitism encountered by Jews is due to this fact...that Jews are an outsider/nomadic/stateless ethnic group living among other groups and as such have not gained the necessary 'statecrafting skills' which are badly needed by groups for building and maintaining an actual country or territory with an organic political system and set of laws, an economy, a national culture, a sense of being a real community of people instead of a scattered and persecuted ethnic group who lives amongst other groups - in this respect Jews are kind of like the Roma people (or "gypsies") except Jews are much more educated and wealthier than the Roma...this has provoked much resentment because Jews have historically gained power in many societies all out of proportion to their meager numbers due to their general intelligence, mercantile abilities, and fragmentedness in the countries of others which gives them some advantages over the rooted group. But the question is: would this be the case if Jews formed their own country and set out upon the task of (re)building a state from the ground up again?
So, in the interest of Jewish preservation/continuity and security, a Jewish country (Israel) is clearly necessary to help provide a sorely needed home for so many of the Jews of the world who are, as stated in this article, a (sometimes persecuted) group of rootless "outsiders" who are very much beholden to the national and territorial will of other numerically larger groups. Some Zionists have theorized that the 'collective Jewish psyche' has been in some ways damaged by this statelessness over the centuries - it is true that Jews all over the world have suffered because of their status as outsiders.
Take these quotes by prominent Jews/Zionists as example:
"Exile is one with utter dependence - in material things, in politics and culture, in ethics and intellect, and they must be dependent who are an alien minority, who have no Homeland and are separated from their origins, from the soil and labor, from economic creativity. So we must become the captains of our fortunes, we must become independent - not only in politics and economy but in spirit, feeling and will." - Ben-Gurion
"Exile is the disease, and Israel is the cure." - Jeff Goldstein
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: cordas
» Roma
Posted by: kepstein7777
» Wouldn't work - Jewish intelligence is largely genetic because many used soft eugenics
Posted by: FREE SPEECH
» And this
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» Well, I hate saying this, but after what I have been seeing them do to others...
Posted by: Prophit
» Intelligence is not a genetic trait/Jews were killed by Nazis regardless of their actual lineage
Posted by: yellow
» You posted on the wrong line, I never said a word about genetics.
Posted by: Prophit
» That link says alot prophit..
Posted by: Von
» Yes they are, Von, and more and more every day.
Posted by: Prophit
» No excuse for stealing others' lands
Posted by: True2Blue
» Oddly, I have a Palestinian Arab friend who disagrees with your statement regarding land thievery
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Oddly, I have a Palestinian Arab friend who disagrees with your statement regarding land thiever
Posted by: True2Blue
» I never cut n' paste. I gave a thoughtful, well researched narrative and you replied with old myths!
Posted by: yellow
» More propaganda
Posted by: True2Blue
» Exactly. yellow likes make the rules by ....
Posted by: Von
» RE: xactly. yellow likes make the rules by ....
Posted by: yellow
» RE: xactly. yellow likes make the rules by ....
Posted by: Von
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: YogiBear
» so that gives you the right to perform your own holocaust on the palestinians huh?
Posted by: rafaeltoral
» There is NO holocaust of Palestinians.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: leafsong1
» Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi
» RE: Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: Gisele
» Brian of Nairobi? Isn't he the moron who said oil firms lost money since 2003 due to the Iraq War?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: jbloggz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Jan 2, 2009 2:54 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And to that end, they understand that reasoning, love, mutuality, community MEANS NOTHING. The only thing that really counts is force, power, and the moral commitment to put your own life on the line and be the winner.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Philosophers
Posted by: cordas
» Philosophers, and Idiots..Guess which You Are?
Posted by: ATH
» If what you say is true, then how come Israel gave $1 billion dollars to a Muslim country...
Posted by: Prophit
» There's no "Arab Jews" only Sephardim and Mizrachim who predate the Muslim conquest of Arab Lands
Posted by: yellow
» let's have the entire World move to Eden
Posted by: Von
» RE: There's no "Arab Jews" only Sephardim and Mizrachim who predate the Muslim conquest of Arab Lands
Posted by: laoma
» Mizrachi and Separadi ARE legitimate descriptions. Jewish communities predate Muslims in Arab World!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 2, 2009 3:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The other problem with this article--and any Western media discussion of Israel--is that it seems to assume that Israel's behavior comes from paranoia, anger, or self-defense. It doesn't seem to dawn on anybody that Israelis are capable of hatred, blood lust, and ambition, like any other people. Once again, the double standard.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Paradox? No, a blackout on any critical Western media discussion of Israel...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Paradox
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Paradox
Posted by: Gisele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Jan 2, 2009 4:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think these Wise Men, wherever they may have originated were from any of our more western or northern hemisphere either.
One thing's sure. Yet still they are trying to impose upon us all those tribal forms from long ago. Archaeological and anthropological evidence in form of plentiful bones and crushed and destroyed ways of life continue to prove this. That vehement urge to be not 'a', but 'the' people; the ONLY people; each of the three; an accelerating dynamo of Death.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» AGREED - toss the Angry Middle Eastern God on to the scrap heap of history...
Posted by: FREE SPEECH
» RE: AGREED - toss the Angry Middle Eastern God
Posted by: Lauren
» Well, ironically your right. There is a God and is not as we imagined.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: AGREED - toss the Angry Middle Eastern God on to the scrap heap of history...
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Not only that, but the Islamics acknowledge that Jesus Christ existed and was....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Not only that, but the Islamics acknowledge that Jesus Christ existed and was....
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 2, 2009 5:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulDKennedy on Jan 2, 2009 6:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But what defines the Jews' relationship with the non-Jewish world. It is, in my view, the Jewish view that the Jews are the 'Chosen People of God'. This concept of being the chosen people is what defines Jewishness and the Jews' views of the world. It is also the fundamental reason for the 'disconnect'.
When one person or group of persons states bluntly that he, she or they has been chosen by God then they are expressing the view that they are superior to all other people or groups of people. Naturally, this is resented by all the other groups, and outcome is wars, pogroms, ghettos and so on.
So how can we get rid of the 'disconnect'. The only possible way is for Jews to state unequivocally that they are not superior, that they are not the Chosen People of God. But if they do this they will be denying their own sense of self. The impossibility of this denial is what makes solving the 'disconnect' impossible.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Keeping in mind what you just said, read the "Protocols of Zion".
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Protocols an anti-semitic forgery
Posted by: Ladydog
» When you can't argue facts, argue law, when you can't argue law, NAMECALL.
Posted by: Prophit
» Prophit you are one ignorant pig.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The Chosen People
Posted by: dglenn10
» RE: The Chosen People
Posted by: leafsong1
» Leafsong you really ARE stupid.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Leafsong you really ARE stupid. Not quite
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Leafsong you really ARE stupid. Not quite
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: muktuk on Jan 2, 2009 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Judaic fundamentalism is a driving force behind the "settlers" in occupied Palestinian lands.
And witness Christian fundamentalism in the United States and their increasing intolerance of gay marriage, immigrants, Muslims, and yes, even intolerance of different Christian sects.
Professor Ira does explicate how fundamentalists seize political power from the majority- their use of fear and terror.
How ironic that Israelis "fear" these little rockets fired from Gaza when thousands die from cigarettes each year.
How ironic that Americans are terrorised by the events of 9/11, when over 434,000 Americans die each and every year from cigarettes.
Sorry to ruin your new millennium, but humankind has doomed itself by overpopulating this fragile planet.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Anthropologically speaking.............
Posted by: sunnywater
» Uhhh, there is a difference between suicide (smoking) and murder (9-11).
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Uhhh, there is a difference between suicide (smoking) and murder (9-11).
Posted by: leafsong1
» Actually, the planet without the aid of man, has had a good record....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Anthropologically speaking.............
Posted by: crazy carlos
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Jan 2, 2009 7:33 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This could explain the behavior of Islamic nations after Queen Isabella ran the Jews and Islamics out of Spain, after stealing their properties (to subsidize Columbus' fleet, among other projects). At that time, Jews were invited by several Islamic rulers to come to their countries to live.
Standing up to bullies is behavior recommended to all men, and socially prohibited to minorities (and women) in almost all cultures. Thus the hissy fits when Israel arms and fights back. This is not a simplistic argument, just a recognition that Islamic nations are numerous and well-populated with the avaricious, while Israel is a single entity with a proportionally small, educated, achieving populace.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: What utter racist crap
Posted by: 876
» Israel demands another Academy Award
Posted by: weathered
» RE: survivalism as self-defense mechanism
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Your presentation presumes only violence as their course of action.....
Posted by: Prophit
» Well, at least it's a NEW propaganda point
Posted by: True2Blue
» keep that self-righteous attitude and see where it gets you.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 2, 2009 7:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Its so selfish and exhausting Anna
Posted by: weathered
» yes the world will stand by as palestinians die.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
Posted by: manderson on Jan 2, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have wondered sometimes if Israel is REALLY the largest, and perhaps LAST, Jewish ghetto. Part and parcel of the Apocalypic Milleniallist faction of our wonderful Christian religion (sic); a part that is not generally publicized, but should be blasted around the world with large-print headlines; is that after the Battle of Armageddon, the anti-Christ, the Rapture (chuckle), all the tribulations in whatever order they occur blah blah woof woof, is that Israel will be destroyed. Apocalyptic Christianity originated in Britain, as did the Balfour Declaration. What's up with that?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Jan 2, 2009 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or must we endure more and ongoing insane killings and constant fear on all sides in the name of maintaining the current geography?
Feedaback requested.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: WHO IS TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT ISRAEL RELOCATING?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: WHO IS TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT ISRAEL RELOCATING?
Posted by: drricklippin
» Here is what happened when Hitler suggested or offered other..relocation places for...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: WHO IS TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT ISRAEL RELOCATING?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: riondluz on Jan 2, 2009 8:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The history (and mythology) of their persecution as a culture (racially they are semitic, as are arabs) is little different than other cultures throughout time.
To imply that any other separatist group would resort to the same mentality as the Jews in building their homeland is specious. It is when your history or mythology is propagandized by your government to justify actions that take from others because you are told you are "chosen" that you begin to court evil by giving power to a few zealots who feel entitled.
I have never been to Israel, but I know that there are many there who disagree with their leadership. Like other nations, the Israeli government does not seem to reflect the will of the people. That is because the government is a sock-puppet for the USA; even knowing that the USA cares naught for Israel apart from its strategic value in the mid-east.
The author speaks of their (jewish) feelings prior to and after 1948, but fails to note the land grab that ensued and the bad will it created. Fact is, nobody in the West gave a shit about arabs; they were nazi sympathizers and had no power of their own. Building up a beholden proxy was the order of the day.
I will refrain from delving into the history of the Israeli State and their past actions, but given a bottomless pocket (our tax dollars) and a vision of a nation-state whose future growth demands the taking of land and resources from their neighbors; the reasons they use to justify it are completely moot, but are designed to play into fear and pride.
I am not an historian and can stand corrected, but I feel two decades of this propaganda and the gift of western arms is what led to their neighbors sentiments (and justifiable fears) and the 6 day war.
And its been a clusterfuck ever since. What is telling is how the Israelites, as a persecuted people, are quite capable of persecuting others. How they can rationalize their situation into a myopia that prevents them from seeing the incredible imbalance of percieved threats. A nuclear power, with the best equipped army (our $ has bought them) in the region vs stone throwers. A death toll of 4 being comparable to 400. An 18 month siege that has resulted in the creation of a ghetto (Gaza) equal to, or worse than, any from which they might have fled. (Remember Shabra and Shatilla? - spelling notwithstanding)
It can only lead one to conclude that every Israeli government, since it's inception, has never wanted peace on any terms but their own; the proof of this has been their continued disregard for the treaties they have signed onto in pursuit of their vision for a Greater Israel.
"If you cannot change their minds, you can change their behavior". Well, of course. But being the main antagonizer, the thief of lands, the leveler of towns, the hoarder of water, the builder of walls, etc... is a sure-fire way to change behavior only for the worse.
Since this is apparent for even the most simple-minded to see (including myself) then one can only conclude that, like the destruction of Iraq, it is by design and intention; propaganda notwithstanding.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ajgasper on Jan 2, 2009 9:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's just my nature and character, but I found this article appealing. My perspective is that those who know themselves the best are also the most confident. The strength of their being is characterized by integrity, morality, ethical conduct, tolerance, wisdom, and judgment.
If anything else, it fired off a few neurons in my brain, and got me thinking about things.
An absolutely fabulous article.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Just a question of clarification....... are you saying that ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Just a question of clarification....... are you saying that ....
Posted by: ajgasper
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kilantra on Jan 2, 2009 11:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The above statement curiously perpetuates the premise that the writer wants to abolish, i.e., isolated separatism and other. "my own people, my own community" If we all affect one another in this ever shrinking globe, your 'own people'
and 'own community' are all the inhabitants of this planet.
How is it that being Jewish prohibits you from understanding Palestinians? If there is no empathy or stepping into the shoes of the inextricable binary, how can understanding occur?
But the author's notion works if seen individually. There is never going to be a unanimous Jewish or Palestinian 'think'.
It is true that if we want to see change we have to first change ourselves, not others. Therefore the change that must occur is not a citizenry of Jews, but individuals, both Palestinian, Jew, or however you define yourself.
We have to see others as our larger self.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rafaeltoral on Jan 2, 2009 12:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your people built that wall all on their own.
Americas support of Israel is largely the reason the rest of the middle east hates America.
Jews like to bring up the holocaust and play the part of the victim. In reality you are the biggest bully in the middle east. Picking fights with other countries then running and hiding behind your army and the United States. All the while using the media to continue to portray yourselves as the victim.
Get the fuck out of gaza, stay within your own borders, and quit trying to expand your territory. Eventually people are going to get fed up with your shit and destroy your country once and for all. The USA probably wont be there to save your ass.
And tell mossad to quit staging false flag attacks. I wouldnt be surprised if they played a large part in the false flag attack on Mubai.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Israel is to blame for all of their own problems.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dglenn10 on Jan 2, 2009 1:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Pure fiction
Posted by: True2Blue
» This is pure opinion and doesn't square with the historic facts.
Posted by: yellow
» You seem to have misinterpreted your historical facts.
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: You seem to have misinterpreted your historical facts.
Posted by: yellow
» You forget the urg which was an Israel "terrorist" organization...
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: YogiBear on Jan 2, 2009 1:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: otto on Jan 2, 2009 2:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: old lefty on Jan 2, 2009 4:05 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the bottom line: Jews have a right to a land and nation of their own, one in which the rights of all (minorities) should of course be respected and protected (as projected by Herzl ideological/organizational founder of political zionism) and no excuses or rationalizations are needed for Israel's creation - a people like any other people deserve a land like every other people. And pacifism and the kindness of Christians and Muslims won't get us there.
Accept the Jews right to our state and then we might even look the other way when our Palestinian neighbors establish their brutal, homophobic, sexist totalitarian regime next door. HYPOCRITES!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Not according to Rabbi Weiss and others
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
Posted by: John Nicol on Jan 2, 2009 4:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The wrong people are in charge.... congress has been owned now...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The wrong people are in charge.... congress has been owned now...
Posted by: gzuckier
» RE: The Great American Ghetto
Posted by: gzuckier
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi on Jan 2, 2009 6:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The people of Palestine suffer, and they suffer constantly, the humiliations put upon them by they who oppress them, the Israelis, they who have no pride.
Israel is an appenadage of pure evil. It is the instrument, the tool, of the devil.
It's behaviour strongly suggests that this insidious state has forfeited all right to existance
Yes ! Without a doubt !
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Brian of Nairobi has No Right To Exist
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Israel.... No Right To Exist
Posted by: gzuckier
» Your Posts are illogical and irrational
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pbutler on Jan 2, 2009 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your conclusions might be more persuasive if you mapped the route(s) you took to reach them. Why do you think the mindset of one cohort of massively-PTSD'd refugees (can you find any who aren't?) is the "bottom layer" of Israel's madness?
We can't see how you tunneled through -
- two generations' worth of cultural evolution in unique circumstances, as affected by a (proportionately huge) continuing stream of immigrants from a vast range of other cultures;
- the use of Israel as a regional pawn by the US, and its simultaneous manipulations of US politics;
- the scapegoating of Israel by Muslim governments & Palestinian leaders to distract from their own crimes and failures;
- generic xenophobia, racism & religious bigotry as a self-reinforcing mindset epidemic in humankind;
- the usual dynamics of modern arms races and military occupations, intensified by money from oil wells & US taxpayers;
- the mutual support networks of hardcore rightwingers in US & Israeli politics, a powerful clique distinct from both governments;
- the constant rejection of "assimilation", without which Jewish identity would have been absorbed centuries ago into those cultures where Jews did "make a connection";
- and several other important factors in play here, none of which can be left out of any in-depth analysis.
Is the idea of a "bottom" even useful in a situation so complex?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Prof. Chernus, should you read this...
Posted by: ajgasper
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Jan 2, 2009 6:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile, the Palestinians and their supporters err by not realizing that Israelis consider Israel their home, not a colonialist project, and that they are driven above all by fear for their survival.
A quote from Israeli peacenik Amos Oz:
"The Arabs look at us Israelis and can't see us as we really are: a bunch of half-hysterical refugees and survivors. What they see when they look at us is a nightmare image, an extension of the white, oppressive, sophisticated, colonizing Europe coming back to the Middle East with the purpose of oppressing and humiliating the Arabs. We Israelis, on the other hand, look at the Arabs, often failing to see them as an oppressed people, victims of colonialism, paralyzed by identity crises and tyrant regimes. What we see is nothing but an incarnation of our past oppressors: Cossacks, pogrom makers, Nazis. They have grown mustaches this time and wrapped themselves up in kaffiyehs, but they are still out to do the same old thing--cut Jewish throats."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shipmate on Jan 3, 2009 1:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yurbud on Jan 3, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It hasn't worked out quite as quickly as they hoped, so they kill more hoping the rest will give up and leave.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» They don't want more land. The situation, especially in Gaza, resembles the UK in Northern Ireland
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gzuckier on Jan 4, 2009 1:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and those israelis who disagree with their government policies; why don't they just stop their government's crimes, the way we americans who read alternet have done so much to end our government's horrifying death toll? you know, write an occasional letter to the newspaper and make stern comments in blogs and so on?
well, like i say, it's good that we've solved the greatest human rights problem facing the world. i'm sure the israelis will see the wisdom of our answer.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on Jan 2, 2009 2:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a country w/WMD, its manipulating hands all over our Wallet and the emotional development of an 8th grader who has no friends and doesn't care why?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: it is across the board.
Posted by: Lauren
» How come Alternet does not report about the Israeli attack on Cynthia McKinney's rescue group?
Posted by: Prophit
» I followed yer link
Posted by: Von
» Thanks for the update.... I was worried.... Cynthia has been so...
Posted by: Prophit
» Thanx Prophit but I cant take credit for that.
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on Jan 2, 2009 2:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THANK YOU!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FREE SPEECH on Jan 2, 2009 2:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel is not a GHETTO - it is a country, a country with an ethnically Jewish majority.
A Jewish country (namely: Israel) is sorely needed because as a stateless (or perhaps more accurately, territorial-less) group for very many centuries Jews the world over have encountered so many problems precisely because of the fact that that they were a rootless ethnic minority living amongst other larger ethnic groups who would tolerate so many of these "nomadic outsiders" in their midst. The main reason Jews as a group has survived so long is because they often have just packed up and left countries or territories when things go too bad for them (where they were hounded out, for instance) or were being persecuted and went in search of greener pastures. However, many ask if this is 'fair' or just due to the fact that the majority of other groups in the world are held in place and in check by national boundaries, economies, laws, and cultures - while Jews are for the most part not bound by these norms because they live transnationally (exiles, basically) amongst other groups who do not always tolerate their presence well because of the natural territorial instincts of groups and nations.
There are many historians and scholars, both Jewish and non-Jewish, who have wrote and talked about how much of the antisemitism encountered by Jews is due to this fact...that Jews are an outsider/nomadic/stateless ethnic group living among other groups and as such have not gained the necessary 'statecrafting skills' which are badly needed by groups for building and maintaining an actual country or territory with an organic political system and set of laws, an economy, a national culture, a sense of being a real community of people instead of a scattered and persecuted ethnic group who lives amongst other groups - in this respect Jews are kind of like the Roma people (or "gypsies") except Jews are much more educated and wealthier than the Roma...this has provoked much resentment because Jews have historically gained power in many societies all out of proportion to their meager numbers due to their general intelligence, mercantile abilities, and fragmentedness in the countries of others which gives them some advantages over the rooted group. But the question is: would this be the case if Jews formed their own country and set out upon the task of (re)building a state from the ground up again?
So, in the interest of Jewish preservation/continuity and security, a Jewish country (Israel) is clearly necessary to help provide a sorely needed home for so many of the Jews of the world who are, as stated in this article, a (sometimes persecuted) group of rootless "outsiders" who are very much beholden to the national and territorial will of other numerically larger groups. Some Zionists have theorized that the 'collective Jewish psyche' has been in some ways damaged by this statelessness over the centuries - it is true that Jews all over the world have suffered because of their status as outsiders.
Take these quotes by prominent Jews/Zionists as example:
"Exile is one with utter dependence - in material things, in politics and culture, in ethics and intellect, and they must be dependent who are an alien minority, who have no Homeland and are separated from their origins, from the soil and labor, from economic creativity. So we must become the captains of our fortunes, we must become independent - not only in politics and economy but in spirit, feeling and will." - Ben-Gurion
"Exile is the disease, and Israel is the cure." - Jeff Goldstein
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: cordas
» Roma
Posted by: kepstein7777
» Wouldn't work - Jewish intelligence is largely genetic because many used soft eugenics
Posted by: FREE SPEECH
» And this
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» Well, I hate saying this, but after what I have been seeing them do to others...
Posted by: Prophit
» Intelligence is not a genetic trait/Jews were killed by Nazis regardless of their actual lineage
Posted by: yellow
» You posted on the wrong line, I never said a word about genetics.
Posted by: Prophit
» That link says alot prophit..
Posted by: Von
» Yes they are, Von, and more and more every day.
Posted by: Prophit
» No excuse for stealing others' lands
Posted by: True2Blue
» Oddly, I have a Palestinian Arab friend who disagrees with your statement regarding land thievery
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Oddly, I have a Palestinian Arab friend who disagrees with your statement regarding land thiever
Posted by: True2Blue
» I never cut n' paste. I gave a thoughtful, well researched narrative and you replied with old myths!
Posted by: yellow
» More propaganda
Posted by: True2Blue
» Exactly. yellow likes make the rules by ....
Posted by: Von
» RE: xactly. yellow likes make the rules by ....
Posted by: yellow
» RE: xactly. yellow likes make the rules by ....
Posted by: Von
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: YogiBear
» so that gives you the right to perform your own holocaust on the palestinians huh?
Posted by: rafaeltoral
» There is NO holocaust of Palestinians.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: leafsong1
» Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi
» RE: Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: Gisele
» Brian of Nairobi? Isn't he the moron who said oil firms lost money since 2003 due to the Iraq War?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Say "Free Speech," do you steal ALL your ideas from hateful anti-semites like Kevin B. MacDonald?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: LOADED PHRASE: "the Largest Jewish Ghetto Ever Created"
Posted by: jbloggz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Jan 2, 2009 2:54 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And to that end, they understand that reasoning, love, mutuality, community MEANS NOTHING. The only thing that really counts is force, power, and the moral commitment to put your own life on the line and be the winner.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Philosophers
Posted by: cordas
» Philosophers, and Idiots..Guess which You Are?
Posted by: ATH
» If what you say is true, then how come Israel gave $1 billion dollars to a Muslim country...
Posted by: Prophit
» There's no "Arab Jews" only Sephardim and Mizrachim who predate the Muslim conquest of Arab Lands
Posted by: yellow
» let's have the entire World move to Eden
Posted by: Von
» RE: There's no "Arab Jews" only Sephardim and Mizrachim who predate the Muslim conquest of Arab Lands
Posted by: laoma
» Mizrachi and Separadi ARE legitimate descriptions. Jewish communities predate Muslims in Arab World!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 2, 2009 3:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The other problem with this article--and any Western media discussion of Israel--is that it seems to assume that Israel's behavior comes from paranoia, anger, or self-defense. It doesn't seem to dawn on anybody that Israelis are capable of hatred, blood lust, and ambition, like any other people. Once again, the double standard.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Paradox? No, a blackout on any critical Western media discussion of Israel...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Paradox
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Paradox
Posted by: Gisele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Jan 2, 2009 4:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think these Wise Men, wherever they may have originated were from any of our more western or northern hemisphere either.
One thing's sure. Yet still they are trying to impose upon us all those tribal forms from long ago. Archaeological and anthropological evidence in form of plentiful bones and crushed and destroyed ways of life continue to prove this. That vehement urge to be not 'a', but 'the' people; the ONLY people; each of the three; an accelerating dynamo of Death.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» AGREED - toss the Angry Middle Eastern God on to the scrap heap of history...
Posted by: FREE SPEECH
» RE: AGREED - toss the Angry Middle Eastern God
Posted by: Lauren
» Well, ironically your right. There is a God and is not as we imagined.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: AGREED - toss the Angry Middle Eastern God on to the scrap heap of history...
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Not only that, but the Islamics acknowledge that Jesus Christ existed and was....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Not only that, but the Islamics acknowledge that Jesus Christ existed and was....
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 2, 2009 5:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulDKennedy on Jan 2, 2009 6:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But what defines the Jews' relationship with the non-Jewish world. It is, in my view, the Jewish view that the Jews are the 'Chosen People of God'. This concept of being the chosen people is what defines Jewishness and the Jews' views of the world. It is also the fundamental reason for the 'disconnect'.
When one person or group of persons states bluntly that he, she or they has been chosen by God then they are expressing the view that they are superior to all other people or groups of people. Naturally, this is resented by all the other groups, and outcome is wars, pogroms, ghettos and so on.
So how can we get rid of the 'disconnect'. The only possible way is for Jews to state unequivocally that they are not superior, that they are not the Chosen People of God. But if they do this they will be denying their own sense of self. The impossibility of this denial is what makes solving the 'disconnect' impossible.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Keeping in mind what you just said, read the "Protocols of Zion".
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Protocols an anti-semitic forgery
Posted by: Ladydog
» When you can't argue facts, argue law, when you can't argue law, NAMECALL.
Posted by: Prophit
» Prophit you are one ignorant pig.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The Chosen People
Posted by: dglenn10
» RE: The Chosen People
Posted by: leafsong1
» Leafsong you really ARE stupid.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Leafsong you really ARE stupid. Not quite
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Leafsong you really ARE stupid. Not quite
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: muktuk on Jan 2, 2009 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Judaic fundamentalism is a driving force behind the "settlers" in occupied Palestinian lands.
And witness Christian fundamentalism in the United States and their increasing intolerance of gay marriage, immigrants, Muslims, and yes, even intolerance of different Christian sects.
Professor Ira does explicate how fundamentalists seize political power from the majority- their use of fear and terror.
How ironic that Israelis "fear" these little rockets fired from Gaza when thousands die from cigarettes each year.
How ironic that Americans are terrorised by the events of 9/11, when over 434,000 Americans die each and every year from cigarettes.
Sorry to ruin your new millennium, but humankind has doomed itself by overpopulating this fragile planet.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Anthropologically speaking.............
Posted by: sunnywater
» Uhhh, there is a difference between suicide (smoking) and murder (9-11).
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Uhhh, there is a difference between suicide (smoking) and murder (9-11).
Posted by: leafsong1
» Actually, the planet without the aid of man, has had a good record....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Anthropologically speaking.............
Posted by: crazy carlos
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Jan 2, 2009 7:33 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This could explain the behavior of Islamic nations after Queen Isabella ran the Jews and Islamics out of Spain, after stealing their properties (to subsidize Columbus' fleet, among other projects). At that time, Jews were invited by several Islamic rulers to come to their countries to live.
Standing up to bullies is behavior recommended to all men, and socially prohibited to minorities (and women) in almost all cultures. Thus the hissy fits when Israel arms and fights back. This is not a simplistic argument, just a recognition that Islamic nations are numerous and well-populated with the avaricious, while Israel is a single entity with a proportionally small, educated, achieving populace.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: What utter racist crap
Posted by: 876
» Israel demands another Academy Award
Posted by: weathered
» RE: survivalism as self-defense mechanism
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Your presentation presumes only violence as their course of action.....
Posted by: Prophit
» Well, at least it's a NEW propaganda point
Posted by: True2Blue
» keep that self-righteous attitude and see where it gets you.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 2, 2009 7:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Its so selfish and exhausting Anna
Posted by: weathered
» yes the world will stand by as palestinians die.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
Posted by: manderson on Jan 2, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have wondered sometimes if Israel is REALLY the largest, and perhaps LAST, Jewish ghetto. Part and parcel of the Apocalypic Milleniallist faction of our wonderful Christian religion (sic); a part that is not generally publicized, but should be blasted around the world with large-print headlines; is that after the Battle of Armageddon, the anti-Christ, the Rapture (chuckle), all the tribulations in whatever order they occur blah blah woof woof, is that Israel will be destroyed. Apocalyptic Christianity originated in Britain, as did the Balfour Declaration. What's up with that?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Jan 2, 2009 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or must we endure more and ongoing insane killings and constant fear on all sides in the name of maintaining the current geography?
Feedaback requested.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: WHO IS TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT ISRAEL RELOCATING?
Posted by: cordas
» RE: WHO IS TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT ISRAEL RELOCATING?
Posted by: drricklippin
» Here is what happened when Hitler suggested or offered other..relocation places for...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: WHO IS TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT ISRAEL RELOCATING?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: riondluz on Jan 2, 2009 8:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The history (and mythology) of their persecution as a culture (racially they are semitic, as are arabs) is little different than other cultures throughout time.
To imply that any other separatist group would resort to the same mentality as the Jews in building their homeland is specious. It is when your history or mythology is propagandized by your government to justify actions that take from others because you are told you are "chosen" that you begin to court evil by giving power to a few zealots who feel entitled.
I have never been to Israel, but I know that there are many there who disagree with their leadership. Like other nations, the Israeli government does not seem to reflect the will of the people. That is because the government is a sock-puppet for the USA; even knowing that the USA cares naught for Israel apart from its strategic value in the mid-east.
The author speaks of their (jewish) feelings prior to and after 1948, but fails to note the land grab that ensued and the bad will it created. Fact is, nobody in the West gave a shit about arabs; they were nazi sympathizers and had no power of their own. Building up a beholden proxy was the order of the day.
I will refrain from delving into the history of the Israeli State and their past actions, but given a bottomless pocket (our tax dollars) and a vision of a nation-state whose future growth demands the taking of land and resources from their neighbors; the reasons they use to justify it are completely moot, but are designed to play into fear and pride.
I am not an historian and can stand corrected, but I feel two decades of this propaganda and the gift of western arms is what led to their neighbors sentiments (and justifiable fears) and the 6 day war.
And its been a clusterfuck ever since. What is telling is how the Israelites, as a persecuted people, are quite capable of persecuting others. How they can rationalize their situation into a myopia that prevents them from seeing the incredible imbalance of percieved threats. A nuclear power, with the best equipped army (our $ has bought them) in the region vs stone throwers. A death toll of 4 being comparable to 400. An 18 month siege that has resulted in the creation of a ghetto (Gaza) equal to, or worse than, any from which they might have fled. (Remember Shabra and Shatilla? - spelling notwithstanding)
It can only lead one to conclude that every Israeli government, since it's inception, has never wanted peace on any terms but their own; the proof of this has been their continued disregard for the treaties they have signed onto in pursuit of their vision for a Greater Israel.
"If you cannot change their minds, you can change their behavior". Well, of course. But being the main antagonizer, the thief of lands, the leveler of towns, the hoarder of water, the builder of walls, etc... is a sure-fire way to change behavior only for the worse.
Since this is apparent for even the most simple-minded to see (including myself) then one can only conclude that, like the destruction of Iraq, it is by design and intention; propaganda notwithstanding.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ajgasper on Jan 2, 2009 9:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's just my nature and character, but I found this article appealing. My perspective is that those who know themselves the best are also the most confident. The strength of their being is characterized by integrity, morality, ethical conduct, tolerance, wisdom, and judgment.
If anything else, it fired off a few neurons in my brain, and got me thinking about things.
An absolutely fabulous article.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Just a question of clarification....... are you saying that ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Just a question of clarification....... are you saying that ....
Posted by: ajgasper
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kilantra on Jan 2, 2009 11:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The above statement curiously perpetuates the premise that the writer wants to abolish, i.e., isolated separatism and other. "my own people, my own community" If we all affect one another in this ever shrinking globe, your 'own people'
and 'own community' are all the inhabitants of this planet.
How is it that being Jewish prohibits you from understanding Palestinians? If there is no empathy or stepping into the shoes of the inextricable binary, how can understanding occur?
But the author's notion works if seen individually. There is never going to be a unanimous Jewish or Palestinian 'think'.
It is true that if we want to see change we have to first change ourselves, not others. Therefore the change that must occur is not a citizenry of Jews, but individuals, both Palestinian, Jew, or however you define yourself.
We have to see others as our larger self.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rafaeltoral on Jan 2, 2009 12:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your people built that wall all on their own.
Americas support of Israel is largely the reason the rest of the middle east hates America.
Jews like to bring up the holocaust and play the part of the victim. In reality you are the biggest bully in the middle east. Picking fights with other countries then running and hiding behind your army and the United States. All the while using the media to continue to portray yourselves as the victim.
Get the fuck out of gaza, stay within your own borders, and quit trying to expand your territory. Eventually people are going to get fed up with your shit and destroy your country once and for all. The USA probably wont be there to save your ass.
And tell mossad to quit staging false flag attacks. I wouldnt be surprised if they played a large part in the false flag attack on Mubai.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Israel is to blame for all of their own problems.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dglenn10 on Jan 2, 2009 1:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Pure fiction
Posted by: True2Blue
» This is pure opinion and doesn't square with the historic facts.
Posted by: yellow
» You seem to have misinterpreted your historical facts.
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: You seem to have misinterpreted your historical facts.
Posted by: yellow
» You forget the urg which was an Israel "terrorist" organization...
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: YogiBear on Jan 2, 2009 1:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: otto on Jan 2, 2009 2:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: old lefty on Jan 2, 2009 4:05 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the bottom line: Jews have a right to a land and nation of their own, one in which the rights of all (minorities) should of course be respected and protected (as projected by Herzl ideological/organizational founder of political zionism) and no excuses or rationalizations are needed for Israel's creation - a people like any other people deserve a land like every other people. And pacifism and the kindness of Christians and Muslims won't get us there.
Accept the Jews right to our state and then we might even look the other way when our Palestinian neighbors establish their brutal, homophobic, sexist totalitarian regime next door. HYPOCRITES!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Not according to Rabbi Weiss and others
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
Posted by: John Nicol on Jan 2, 2009 4:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The wrong people are in charge.... congress has been owned now...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The wrong people are in charge.... congress has been owned now...
Posted by: gzuckier
» RE: The Great American Ghetto
Posted by: gzuckier
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi on Jan 2, 2009 6:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The people of Palestine suffer, and they suffer constantly, the humiliations put upon them by they who oppress them, the Israelis, they who have no pride.
Israel is an appenadage of pure evil. It is the instrument, the tool, of the devil.
It's behaviour strongly suggests that this insidious state has forfeited all right to existance
Yes ! Without a doubt !
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Brian of Nairobi has No Right To Exist
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Israel.... No Right To Exist
Posted by: gzuckier
» Your Posts are illogical and irrational
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pbutler on Jan 2, 2009 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your conclusions might be more persuasive if you mapped the route(s) you took to reach them. Why do you think the mindset of one cohort of massively-PTSD'd refugees (can you find any who aren't?) is the "bottom layer" of Israel's madness?
We can't see how you tunneled through -
- two generations' worth of cultural evolution in unique circumstances, as affected by a (proportionately huge) continuing stream of immigrants from a vast range of other cultures;
- the use of Israel as a regional pawn by the US, and its simultaneous manipulations of US politics;
- the scapegoating of Israel by Muslim governments & Palestinian leaders to distract from their own crimes and failures;
- generic xenophobia, racism & religious bigotry as a self-reinforcing mindset epidemic in humankind;
- the usual dynamics of modern arms races and military occupations, intensified by money from oil wells & US taxpayers;
- the mutual support networks of hardcore rightwingers in US & Israeli politics, a powerful clique distinct from both governments;
- the constant rejection of "assimilation", without which Jewish identity would have been absorbed centuries ago into those cultures where Jews did "make a connection";
- and several other important factors in play here, none of which can be left out of any in-depth analysis.
Is the idea of a "bottom" even useful in a situation so complex?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Prof. Chernus, should you read this...
Posted by: ajgasper
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Jan 2, 2009 6:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile, the Palestinians and their supporters err by not realizing that Israelis consider Israel their home, not a colonialist project, and that they are driven above all by fear for their survival.
A quote from Israeli peacenik Amos Oz:
"The Arabs look at us Israelis and can't see us as we really are: a bunch of half-hysterical refugees and survivors. What they see when they look at us is a nightmare image, an extension of the white, oppressive, sophisticated, colonizing Europe coming back to the Middle East with the purpose of oppressing and humiliating the Arabs. We Israelis, on the other hand, look at the Arabs, often failing to see them as an oppressed people, victims of colonialism, paralyzed by identity crises and tyrant regimes. What we see is nothing but an incarnation of our past oppressors: Cossacks, pogrom makers, Nazis. They have grown mustaches this time and wrapped themselves up in kaffiyehs, but they are still out to do the same old thing--cut Jewish throats."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shipmate on Jan 3, 2009 1:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yurbud on Jan 3, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It hasn't worked out quite as quickly as they hoped, so they kill more hoping the rest will give up and leave.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» They don't want more land. The situation, especially in Gaza, resembles the UK in Northern Ireland
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gzuckier on Jan 4, 2009 1:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and those israelis who disagree with their government policies; why don't they just stop their government's crimes, the way we americans who read alternet have done so much to end our government's horrifying death toll? you know, write an occasional letter to the newspaper and make stern comments in blogs and so on?
well, like i say, it's good that we've solved the greatest human rights problem facing the world. i'm sure the israelis will see the wisdom of our answer.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Vancouver's Games Will Be the Gayest Olympics Ever
Beer Battles: Workers in Belgium Take on Brewing Giant
White "Savior-Afflicted" Christians, Black Haitian Babies: This Won't End Well




